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Houshmazode
09-15-2013, 04:55 PM
Let them play.

That was a pretty terrible, completely one-sided display of officiating. Idc who you want to win or if you want to enforce some weak ass rule on weak ass calls that should never be called, at least let the game move when it's a blowout if there's nothing blatant.

Penalties:
Denver - 13-132yds
NYG - 4-16yds

Multiple PI calls and that taunting call should never have been called.

It also makes it more likely for players to get injuries when you're extending the drives in crap time when the game is already over.

Atwnbroncfan
09-15-2013, 05:01 PM
Ratings Ratings Ratings, if it wasn't for the refs the blow out would have been worse.

Having said that, I agree with the penalties on Carter. Dude wasn't doing anything right.

-Rod-
09-15-2013, 05:01 PM
PI should not be decided by the field officials. They should throw the flag and then an official with the TV angles should make the final call. The plays happen too fast and the officials don't know what they're seeing, therefore they should not have the power to judge a PI. The flag would simply indicate doubt and activate a review upstairs.

EDIT: same thing with unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer.

RocketArm006
09-15-2013, 05:03 PM
The taunting call was plain stupid.

The roughing call on Moore was lame.

Most of the PIs were legit IMO. Carter was holding on to dudes left and right.

The lack of PI calls in our favor, however, is enough to raise eyebrows.

The flag comes out way too easy these days, thanks Rodge...

broncoslover115
09-15-2013, 05:03 PM
I wish there was something we could do about it. The way it was going, Eli should have just kept going long because every long play had a PI. How the heck are you supposed to defend. The taunting was ridiculous and the unnecessary roughness on Moore was ridiculous. He hit him with his shoulder.

It makes you feel so powerless.

Denver Mike
09-15-2013, 05:05 PM
Do refs get any sort of commission for their calls? I know thats a stupid question, but I was just curious..

Doogansquest
09-15-2013, 05:06 PM
PI should not be decided by the field officials. They should throw the flag and then an official with the TV angles should make the final call. The plays happen too fast and the officials don't know what they're seeing, therefore they should not have the power to judge a PI. The flag would simply indicate doubt and activate a review upstairs.

EDIT: same thing with unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer.

Holy cow I disagree. The refs often get things right we could never hope to see. It's when their wrong and we are watching it on replay that we pretend the refs are terrible. Furthermore, this would mean every tight incomplete pass, or every hit on the QB would have to be reviewed. Talk about bad for viewing.

Springs
09-15-2013, 05:06 PM
PI should not be decided by the field officials. They should throw the flag and then an official with the TV angles should make the final call. The plays happen too fast and the officials don't know what they're seeing, therefore they should not have the power to judge a PI. The flag would simply indicate doubt and activate a review upstairs.

EDIT: same thing with unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer.

Let the coaches challenge. Seriously. It's ridiculous that such game-changing calls can't be reviewed. We already automatically check tds and turnovers.

-Rod-
09-15-2013, 05:11 PM
Holy cow I disagree. The refs often get things right we could never hope to see. It's when their wrong and we are watching it on replay that we pretend the refs are terrible. Furthermore, this would mean every tight incomplete pass, or every hit on the QB would have to be reviewed. Talk about bad for viewing.

The officials huddle anyway to discuss these calls - the game is already stopped at that point. It would take 10 seconds to watch the play in slow motion and make a much more accurate call. There are too many mistakes every week and these mistakes dictate the final score with a bunch of 15-yard penalties.

VikingBronco
09-15-2013, 05:13 PM
We really got called for everything. If we were called for PI why weren't the Giants' DBs? Every little hold and contact was called. And the unnecessary roughness call...

Springs
09-15-2013, 05:16 PM
We really got called for everything. If we were called for PI why weren't the Giants' DBs? Every little hold and contact was called. And the unnecessary roughness call...

The PI in the end zone is what baffles me the most. No wait, it's the PI when the ball was 20 yards short from the receiver. The refs seemed to want to get the Broncos for PI.

-Rod-
09-15-2013, 05:19 PM
I watched NFL RedZone today and there were a lot of bad calls. It's out of control because the officials don't know what they're seeing in the blink of an eye. The officials tried to eject Clinton-Dix (Alabama) yesterday after a clean, perfect hit. Automatic first downs are delivered in bunches. Something must be done about this because the quality of the game is going down. Not everyone has Peyton Manning on the field to ignore the officials and build a huge lead no matter what. The officials can ruin a tight game and they do it quite often.

davidk
09-15-2013, 05:46 PM
IMHO its already bad viewing.the NFL has done everything it can to take a once enjoyable 3 hours and turn it into a game by committee.they might as well take off the pads put on the flags and everyone gets a trophy at the end of the season.BTW been watching since 1964.

dgobronco
09-15-2013, 07:31 PM
It was pretty hard to watch the refs today and not notice substantial bias. The PI's on DRC in the endzone and the one where the ball was short. The taunting call was a joke, especially as the Giant's player was doing all the talking. The one on TC where he had position, the holding call (which was legit), but missing the obvious pushoff by the Giants receiver right in front of the zebra on the same play. At the same time, Decker gets mugged and no call. There was no equal treatment. Good thing it doesn't happen every week, but it sure makes the NFL look bad when you see something like this in a marquee matchup.

AZ bronco
09-15-2013, 07:42 PM
horrible officiating, those 4 consecutive penalties at the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter was a joke, I never saw a ref crew work so hard to give a team a TD !
the ref job was so horrendous it reminded me of the NBA !
this was beyond bad judgement, it was a blatant attempt to influence the score of the game !
shameful, that taunting call was ludicrous and a clear indicator that these refs had an agenda to their calls.

GoManning
09-15-2013, 07:44 PM
Lurking in the Giants game thread and they also felt the refs were giving them the calls.

Buckin' Bronco
09-15-2013, 08:10 PM
horrible officiating, those 4 consecutive penalties at the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter was a joke, I never saw a ref crew work so hard to give a team a TD !
the ref job was so horrendous it reminded me of the NBA !
this was beyond bad judgement, it was a blatant attempt to influence the score of the game !
shameful, that taunting call was ludicrous and a clear indicator that these refs had an agenda to their calls.

Yep completely agree, that was just awful. I mean times like that make you wonder if it's rigged honestly or at least staged in a way.

swess93
09-15-2013, 08:48 PM
Bad calls happen both ways. I honestly didn't think the officiating was too bad. I hate being called for a flag as much as anyone else but the truth is a lot of those flags were deserved. I do think the flags on the drive where DRC was called for a flag in the endzone on great coverage imo. Terrance Knighton's taunting flag could of been called as he did taunt Jacobs somewhat but I think at some point you have to let them play a little bit. Overall I don't think it was terrible. We have to remember we see them play at different angles than the refs and in slow motion and they still often see things that we don't notice at first. Sometimes they don't though. Nothing is perfect. I do think the calls were one sided and thats my biggest problem with todays game but overall it wasn't too bad.

MegaOrange
09-15-2013, 08:54 PM
Home teams seem to get the calls, the fans help. Not gonna whine.

AZ bronco
09-15-2013, 09:10 PM
Bad calls happen both ways. I honestly didn't think the officiating was too bad. I hate being called for a flag as much as anyone else but the truth is a lot of those flags were deserved. I do think the flags on the drive where DRC was called for a flag in the endzone on great coverage imo. Terrance Knighton's taunting flag could of been called as he did taunt Jacobs somewhat but I think at some point you have to let them play a little bit. Overall I don't think it was terrible. We have to remember we see them play at different angles than the refs and in slow motion and they still often see things that we don't notice at first. Sometimes they don't though. Nothing is perfect. I do think the calls were one sided and thats my biggest problem with todays game but overall it wasn't too bad.if what knighton did was taunting, taunting would be called on every single play in every single game.
those refs were INSURING that the giants scored on that posession.

Joshua2585
09-15-2013, 09:12 PM
I honestly was thinking the same thing. We deserved several of those calls, but there were several more that were total momentum-changers. A lot of the calls were very bad.

aditheman
09-15-2013, 09:16 PM
Almost no calls went against the Giants. The refs were beyond horrible, they were working for the Giants. They were paid off or had massive bias and preference. Some of the calls were utterly disgusting. Sell-outs

dizzolve
09-15-2013, 09:23 PM
PI should not be decided by the field officials. They should throw the flag and then an official with the TV angles should make the final call. The plays happen too fast and the officials don't know what they're seeing, therefore they should not have the power to judge a PI. The flag would simply indicate doubt and activate a review upstairs.

EDIT: same thing with unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer.

That's actually a pretty good idea

PI can be such a huge differential when it comes to game outcome - that it's worth the review

SinePari
09-15-2013, 09:33 PM
So the problem is that there are no incentives for refs to "do the right thing." For one, the only positive incentive is getting to ref in big games (e.g. playoffs). Secondly, there's no negative incentive for making poor calls (e.g. not fined). Lastly, they don't get paid enough - maybe better than most Americans, but not great - to 1) deal with threats from home fans and 2) dissuade them from betting on games they can control.

And you might say, "well, betting is illegal and the punishments are harsh if they get caught (e.g. jail time)." Well, refs almost never get caught. For example, there was BLATANT betting in the NBA and still nobody got caught until Donaghy confessed. And in the event of getting caught, a few months of jail time in a minimum security prison is likely worth the amount of money a ref can make betting on a game. And, bear in mind, a ref doesn't necessarily have to bet on a team winning (it would be hard to guarantee a win w/o making it blatant); rather, a ref could just make sure a team beats the spread.

In short - misaligned incentives + lack of ability to enforce rules against cheating (e.g.reasonable doubt) = no reason for refs not to cheat.

Soulfire
09-15-2013, 10:01 PM
I believe that I read that the Giants received 10 first downs via penalties and that the Broncos received 0. That's a bit crazy and I know that our family was doing its fair share of yelling at the refs during this particular game.

I guess that I'm just impressed that we managed to pull off such a win despite them getting 10 first downs off penalties.

WildcatsBroncos
09-15-2013, 10:10 PM
If the Broncos didn't petition after getting completely screwed against the Ravens in the playoffs they won't now

Ahrum
09-15-2013, 10:47 PM
How about we ask Tony Carter to start looking for the ball and to stop tugging jerseys? That seems like a start to me.

Absolutely loved everything about today aside from Tony Carter.

Doogansquest
09-15-2013, 11:15 PM
You guys are ridiculous.

Yes, the refs were "paid" to help the Giants. Didn't work out very well, did it?

Let's "petition" it. Good luck with that.

Did you watch any other games today? I think Seattle and San Francisco have far more right to be upset than Broncos fans do.

They aren't rigging the games, because football is under far too watchful an eye compared to other sports. It's too obvious what's happening when. It doesn't matter if taunting could be called on every play; they called it when a player was being a moron. They called one in the SF/Seattle game too.

The refs were fine. The Broncos were the ones shooting themselves in the foot. You don't hear the good players complaining about it, and this stuff actually affects their lives (not yours). The refs aren't trying to do anything more to the Broncos than any other team. In fact, go to the other 31 boards, and you'll probably read the same garbage. They can't all be right.

GoManning
09-15-2013, 11:42 PM
Usually I like Gene S but his crew today was awful.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1909tcpxkznnrgif/original.gif
BTW, CBS is removing that annoying yellow ticker that looks like a flag.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 01:38 AM
The refs weren't fine - but it wasn't anywhere close to as bad as the crew in last season's playoff game. I cussed the refs out in the Bronco game. Overall, I think most of us were frustrated with the amount of flags being thrown and many flags could have just as soon NOT have been called... but it didn't effect the outcome of the game

As I watched football all day today I was annoyed with flags being thrown in lots of games not just the Broncos game

It's not a conspiracy theory against the Broncos - but with Goodell's safety initiative and all these new rules he's implemented, the refs themselves don't even know what to call anymore. And the refs arguably can't be blamed for missing all the new calls. I don't like that they'd been told to err on the side of player safety always even if it isn't fair.

I like Roddoliver's suggestion - making PI an automatic video review. Many times a Pass Interference call has more of an impact on the outcome of an entire game than a simple turnover and each and every one of those gets another look. Not only that - but the refs will become better at calling PI correctly when they get that immediate critique. And in the long run, it might not even take much more time reviewing those big penalties - but the games WILL be fairer.

And isn't that the prime directive of officiating? To maintain fairness - and/or to offset wrongful advantages obtained by violating the rules with penalties.

Although I think Rod's idea is better, I've suggested in years past that Pass Interference penalties shouldn't be spot fouls in the first place. Who's to say the receiver WOULD have caught the pass if he wasn't interfered with? Why in the world would they just award as much as 50 or even 70 yards on hail mary? That's why I suggested awarding HALF the yardage they award now to the victim of the pass interference. Or just make it a 15 yard penalty and automatic 1st down..... never understood the logic of the Pass Interference penalty

SammyWinder
09-16-2013, 02:47 AM
I think this pretty much sums up the game...


Den / NY
1st downs from Penalties 0 10
3rd down efficiency 8-15 1-11

japfaff
09-16-2013, 04:56 AM
The taunting call was plain stupid.

The roughing call on Moore was lame.

Most of the PIs were legit IMO. Carter was holding on to dudes left and right.

The lack of PI calls in our favor, however, is enough to raise eyebrows.

The flag comes out way too easy these days, thanks Rodge...

This.......I think the refs called a solid game against us..... There was really only a couple bad calls (Moore's hit, but the league has said it is airing on the side of safety so you knew this was coming. DRC Pi in the end zone, just a terrible call). The rest was called right. What pissed me off is the lopsidedness....Where were the calls against NY? You are calling ticky tack calls against one team....Fine but do the same the other way

psychobilly
09-16-2013, 05:33 AM
I do think the calls were one sided and thats my biggest problem with todays game but overall it wasn't too bad.

Would you have been so gracious if we had lost?

Buckin' Bronco
09-16-2013, 05:48 AM
You guys are ridiculous.

Yes, the refs were "paid" to help the Giants. Didn't work out very well, did it?

Let's "petition" it. Good luck with that.

Did you watch any other games today? I think Seattle and San Francisco have far more right to be upset than Broncos fans do.

They aren't rigging the games, because football is under far too watchful an eye compared to other sports. It's too obvious what's happening when. It doesn't matter if taunting could be called on every play; they called it when a player was being a moron. They called one in the SF/Seattle game too.

The refs were fine. The Broncos were the ones shooting themselves in the foot. You don't hear the good players complaining about it, and this stuff actually affects their lives (not yours). The refs aren't trying to do anything more to the Broncos than any other team. In fact, go to the other 31 boards, and you'll probably read the same garbage. They can't all be right.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. The fact is the refs gift wrapped that TD for NY in the 3rd qtr. They had 5 plays inside the 5 to score I believe, that's overkill. Say what you want, but I don''t trust any refs after Bill Levy robbed Seattle of a SB title! Any ref can be paid to make a timely call, spy gate is a prime example of shady dealings in the NFL!

PunchDrunk
09-16-2013, 06:01 AM
If they are going to call PI on every pass, they should make it a 15 yard penalty.

Buckin' Bronco
09-16-2013, 06:09 AM
If they are going to call PI on every pass, they should make it a 15 yard penalty.

Or make it reviewable/challengeable, if every score is reviewable, why not??

VikingBronco
09-16-2013, 06:43 AM
What pissed me off is the lopsidedness....Where were the calls against NY? You are calling ticky tack calls against one team....Fine but do the same the other way

This is the really irritating thing. I could also see how you called holding or PI on some of the plays we received penalties on, but the NY did the same thing and got away with it. That is the really frustrating thing.

The one penalty that bugged me was the taunting when we had the goal line stand. Especially as it was then followed by a Giant celebrating like he won the SB right after scoring the TD on the 6th (or whatever) play from inside our 1 y line...

karnage
09-16-2013, 06:45 AM
It was a very poorly officiated game....It's one thing if you are going to call ticky-tack calls all game....but you have to do it both ways...It's impossible for a team to figure out how to defend when they are getting flagged no matter how they try and defend on defense, and the other team is not getting called despite doing the exact same things or worse in some instances..It's not ok and shouldn't be overlooked just because Denver won....they need to get this straightened out now so we don't end up like we did in the Baltimore playoff game last year...

ERoyal248
09-16-2013, 06:46 AM
Awfully officiated game, their first TD was in part to the refs.

DRC clean pass breakup, penalty, would of forced a FG.

13 penalties to 4, and three of those were offsides, and the onside kick where it didn't go far enough. So essentially nothing on them.

There were some ticky tack calls on Carter but Prince mugs Decker, all over him, no penalty. Carter makes a good play, makes a little,contact, penalty.

Call it both ways.

bronx_2003
09-16-2013, 06:59 AM
This goes down in my 'awful refereed games' HOF, joining the Dante Hall PR years and years ago with about 5-6 blocks in the back, and the game at Philly a few years ago.

I HATE ticky tack calls, but if your going down that route at lease call it both ways.

Carter doesn't always play the ball so some of those were legit but the Moore flag was a joke and the PI in the EZ on DRC which gave them a TD was a shocker.

I just hope we don't get that crew again !

ChampPik4Six
09-16-2013, 07:16 AM
The one that got me all riled up was the flag for the hit from Rahim Moore. He smashed Nicks perfectly in the chest. You cant go high, you cant go low so Moore went right in the middle and abided by the rules still got flagged. That hit from Moore was literally, in todays NFL, the hardest you can hit somebody and not be flagged.(but he was) and thats why it made my fly off the handle. This isnt the NFL with Sean Taylor, Brian Dawkins, and John Lynch anymore, so when a player does follow the rules and make a bone crushing hit, let him be.

hate the call too "Unnessisary roughness" haha you are telling me that we are playing the game of football here. FOOTBALL! and a receiver gets blasted shoulder to chest and the call was "he hit him too hard, first down Giants" Like it makes me scream the word that associates with a lady part.

The same thing happened with Kayvon Webster in the preseason when he annihilated that one guy off the line of scrimmage. shoulder to chest, head snaps back cause he got hammered and the refs tell him that its 15 yards because he got hit too hard.

soft soft soft soft cant stand it. If i was the Broncos I would tell the players that the FO would take care of any fines as long as they felt the ht was legit. Last thing I wanna see is our players second guessing and getting soft becfause they dont wanna lose 25k

psychobilly
09-16-2013, 07:49 AM
hate the call too "Unnessisary roughness" haha you are telling me that we are playing the game of football here.


It's just a judgement call which they got wrong because they thought helmet to helmet. Replay would help in these situations and would have resulted in Moore getting a medal, not a flag.

Buckin' Bronco
09-16-2013, 08:05 AM
The one that got me all riled up was the flag for the hit from Rahim Moore. He smashed Nicks perfectly in the chest. You cant go high, you cant go low so Moore went right in the middle and abided by the rules still got flagged. That hit from Moore was literally, in todays NFL, the hardest you can hit somebody and not be flagged.(but he was) and thats why it made my fly off the handle. This isnt the NFL with Sean Taylor, Brian Dawkins, and John Lynch anymore, so when a player does follow the rules and make a bone crushing hit, let him be.

hate the call too "Unnessisary roughness" haha you are telling me that we are playing the game of football here. FOOTBALL! and a receiver gets blasted shoulder to chest and the call was "he hit him too hard, first down Giants" Like it makes me scream the word that associates with a lady part.

The same thing happened with Kayvon Webster in the preseason when he annihilated that one guy off the line of scrimmage. shoulder to chest, head snaps back cause he got hammered and the refs tell him that its 15 yards because he got hit too hard.

soft soft soft soft cant stand it. If i was the Broncos I would tell the players that the FO would take care of any fines as long as they felt the ht was legit. Last thing I wanna see is our players second guessing and getting soft becfause they dont wanna lose 25k

This ^^^^^^^, don't change jack! Cave their chests in every time and make a point! Goddell sucks ass!!!

one_bad_55
09-16-2013, 08:08 AM
I vented my frustration in the gameday thread yesterday and I got two infractions and I didn't even say what I was thinking. These calls are getting ridiculous, and to me it seems so obvious that the refs are trying to make the games close for ratings.

I do not have a problem with some of the calls but call them the same on both teams. When you let one team get away with holding a receiver and you call the same thing on the other team multiple times then that is wrong. Referees should never be able to change a game with calls on one team and not the other when they are both doing the same things.

These calls were obvious when the calls are 13-4. The only calls they made yesterday on the Giants they could not get out of calling. 3 of them were off sides and one was touching the ball before it traveled 10 yards on the onside kick. 162 yards in penalties to 16 yards. That is not calling a fair game when both teams are doing the same thing and they only call penalties on one team.

After the playoff game last year and this game I would think the Broncos are getting fed up with these lopsided called games allowing the other teams to hang around in these games.

RocketArm006
09-16-2013, 08:21 AM
After the taunting call, I was yelling at the TV "What the bleep! Are you giving out orange slices after the game too?!?!?"

I agree that rodger dodger is woosifying the game. I get that the union has a lot to do with it because of the law suit, but the rules are getting to the point where a defender will have a 6" space on the ball carrier to hit or it will be a penalty, infraction, and fine.

Not a big fan of the "15 yard personal foul for tackling" calls these days.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 08:25 AM
They're going to end up ruining the game to save money ......... to to be a hero (delusional Goodell)

I hope they keep booing him at the NFL drafts

Giddy'up
09-16-2013, 08:35 AM
what had me pissed off was every time Cruz threw his hands up in disgust, the refs would stand there and look at him and then go "Oh OK, you were penalized?" I didn't see it but since your Victor Cruz I guess you were penalized, and then throw a flag a few seconds later.

DishWater
09-16-2013, 08:39 AM
Bloomberg paid them off.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 09:01 AM
Even Sandy Clough made mention of bad officiating today

And he says it like it is for the most part.

brianmcfarlane
09-16-2013, 09:06 AM
These are judgment calls ... reviewing a replay wouldn't necessarily change most of these calls because there is some credence to the call almost always. Offensive holding can be called almost every play because it depends on how bad it was and the official who calls it. I think there were 7 calls against the Broncos DB's and I would say that 3 of them would not usually get called, the Giants weren't held to the same standard. The taunting call was ridiculous, I'm guessing that Knighton said something that ref didn't like ... shouldn't be for the ref to judge, too many of the rules now are calling for the officials to make a judgment call that increases the chance of a game being called in a bias manor.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 09:12 AM
If not review EVERY SINGLE pass interference call

Allow it to be challengeable

I've seen plenty of calls that WOULD be reversed

I do understand your point though brian - judgement call and a good majority of pass defensed do have some kind of contact that technically COULD be called but in real time isn't ......

The violation doesn't warrant the reward/penalty depending on how you look at it. For all the idea's shortcomings it still is a better option than just awarding HUGE chunks of yards when the receiver didn't even have to execute a catch

Why assume he WOULD have caught it?

tat2matt
09-16-2013, 09:30 AM
I'm somewhat surprised that I haven't received a call from my complex manager telling me that my neighbors have complained about the screaming/cursing/slamming things that comes from my place on days like yesterday. The call on DRC had me outraged, and I made up a few curse words after the call on Rahim. That hit was about as perfect as a defensive player can deliver, I hope the coaches and his teammates give him praises when they watch the tape.

It's frustrating when the refs take the game out of the hands of the players with bad calls. It's even more infuriating when they do it with fairly obvious bias. I'm just glad the team is good enough to overcome some of the bad calls and make plays that can't be altered by the refs. Although I do always wait for a flag when one of the receivers is wide open, but I guess the refs saying "Unsportsmanlike Conduct, the receiver burned his defender and got a little too open, 15 yard penalty..." would be too obvious, even against the Broncos.

AZ bronco
09-16-2013, 09:37 AM
These are judgment calls ... reviewing a replay wouldn't necessarily change most of these calls because there is some credence to the call almost always. Offensive holding can be called almost every play because it depends on how bad it was and the official who calls it. I think there were 7 calls against the Broncos DB's and I would say that 3 of them would not usually get called, the Giants weren't held to the same standard. The taunting call was ridiculous, I'm guessing that Knighton said something that ref didn't like ... shouldn't be for the ref to judge, too many of the rules now are calling for the officials to make a judgment call that increases the chance of a game being called in a bias manor.good post.

Spice 1
09-16-2013, 10:04 AM
If they are going to call PI on every pass, they should make it a 15 yard penalty.


Or make it reviewable/challengeable, if every score is reviewable, why not??

The problem with making it challengeable, is it slows the game down too much. Just look at how long it takes them to sort out obvious calls after a coaches challenge. I agree that it should be 15yds on PI (why the hell not, if IC is 5yds and Holding is 10yds. Duh.). That will never happen either, because defensive PI is used as a means to improve offensive efficiency, which is what the league wants.

I only saw two or three horrendous calls yesterday, though. The unnecessary roughness on Moore was incomprehensibly stupid, and the PI on DRC in the endzone was basically a guess by the ref. Other than that, sure some ticky tack calls, but that's part of the game.

Bradshaw3001
09-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Off the top of my head there were 5 calls that bothered me, the rest were probably legit.
- The targeting call on Moore was ridiculous. His shoulder hit the guy in the chest; it was as perfect a hit as you are allowed to make.
- There was a P.I. call late in the first half down the near sideline, I think DRC was in coverage. He interfered with him, no doubt, but the WR was running a go pattern and Eli was throwing a hook, thus the throw was at least 10 yards short of the targeted WR. At least make that a holding or illegal contact call and not a spot foul. Made more than a 15-yard difference and moved them into FG range.
- On 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter after the game was over, Tony Carter was flagged for PI that was nothing more than great coverage. Game was over, but the call was nonsense. (I think it was this one, but I might be confusing this with a similar call on the previous drive, both were Carter covering Randle, on the near side of the field.
- The ineligible man downfield call on Franklin on the screen to Thomas deep in our own territory. Letter of the law v. spirit of the law call.
- The PI on DRC on Nicks slant on 3rd and 2 deep in our territory. That's good coverage.

I was okay with the rest, including the taunting penalty. I don't view all the flags as an issue that needs fixing, just a series of bad calls in a small sample set.

bronx_2003
09-16-2013, 10:10 AM
The DPI calls are annoying because its such a huge chunk of yardage, but I don't think they call it AS MUCH as they used to which is good.

It has to be the spot of the foul and not 15 yards. Say DT went 60 yards downfield and was about to catch a TD and just got tackled over. A 15 yard penalty would be little consolation.

I just think they should ONLY throw that flag if its BLATANT DPI, let them play and don't call ticky tack penalties.

Spice 1
09-16-2013, 10:15 AM
Off the top of my head there were 5 calls that bothered me, the rest were probably legit.
- The targeting call on Moore was ridiculous. His shoulder hit the guy in the chest; it was as perfect a hit as you are allowed to make.
- There was a P.I. call late in the first half down the near sideline, I think DRC was in coverage. He interfered with him, no doubt, but the WR was running a go pattern and Eli was throwing a hook, thus the throw was at least 10 yards short of the targeted WR. At least make that a holding or illegal contact call and not a spot foul. Made more than a 15-yard difference and moved them into FG range.
- On 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter after the game was over, Tony Carter was flagged for PI that was nothing more than great coverage. Game was over, but the call was nonsense. (I think it was this one, but I might be confusing this with a similar call on the previous drive, both were Carter covering Randle, on the near side of the field.
- The ineligible man downfield call on Franklin on the screen to Thomas deep in our own territory. Letter of the law v. spirit of the law call.
- The PI on DRC on Nicks slant on 3rd and 2 deep in our territory. That's good coverage.

I was okay with the rest, including the taunting penalty. I don't view all the flags as an issue that needs fixing, just a series of bad calls in a small sample set.

Good point. I don't remember this particular play, I've seen NFL officials screw the pooch on that one a couple times before. If the pass is uncatchable, it can't be pass interference. Usually they are pretty good at determining what's catchable or not though. I think the issue is more a matter of confusing illegal contact or holding with PI.

Spice 1
09-16-2013, 10:23 AM
The DPI calls are annoying because its such a huge chunk of yardage, but I don't think they call it AS MUCH as they used to which is good.

It has to be the spot of the foul and not 15 yards. Say DT went 60 yards downfield and was about to catch a TD and just got tackled over. A 15 yard penalty would be little consolation.

I just think they should ONLY throw that flag if its BLATANT DPI, let them play and don't call ticky tack penalties.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Another example would be late in the game. All a team would have to do is take the receiver out on a hail mary and let the clock run out. I'd be OK with that though. If you're in that position, you don't deserve to win on a fluke bomb or desperation go route anyways. DB's could just take guys out when they get beat, but think about it. If you're close enough to interfere with a guy about to make a catch, you're probably close enough to make a play. And there's no guarantee that the receiver is going to catch the ball either.

The other thing I forgot is the game can't end on a defensive penalty. So late in a game, you'd only be hurting your team, giving them 15 more yards.

one_bad_55
09-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Good point. I don't remember this particular play, I've seen NFL officials screw the pooch on that one a couple times before. If the pass is uncatchable, it can't be pass interference. Usually they are pretty good at determining what's catchable or not though. I think the issue is more a matter of confusing illegal contact or holding with PI.


There were actually two of those calls made yesterday. The one you are discussing where it was thrown well short of the route the receiver was running and the second was a PI on Harris against Cruz. Cruz was running a Post route and Eli threw it to the flag so not only was it way behind Cruz it flew well over his head and could not have been caught. Cruz did his best acting job and threw up his hands and seconds later a flag came in.

This was an uncatachable ball and should not have been called as a spot foul for PI.

Joshecalpoly
09-16-2013, 10:39 AM
Carter got 3 penalties but most of what he did were within the rules but Randle couldnt battle him.

Harris had a huge hold, and DRCs call in the endzone was a joke but the big one he had against Cruz was not. I did not see Deckers offensive PI but he gets called so often ill give them the benefit. Moores contact was a joke but Ihenachos wasnt and Franklin for some reason was 15-20 yards up field when the ball was snapped (he was the deepest guy we had on the field)

Still those plays that extended the drives on 3rd down, or in the redzone were the ones that were the most questionable.

samparnell
09-16-2013, 11:05 AM
Let them play.

That was a pretty terrible, completely one-sided display of officiating. Idc who you want to win or if you want to enforce some weak ass rule on weak ass calls that should never be called, at least let the game move when it's a blowout if there's nothing blatant.

Penalties:
Denver - 13-132yds
NYG - 4-16yds

Multiple PI calls and that taunting call should never have been called.

It also makes it more likely for players to get injuries when you're extending the drives in crap time when the game is already over.

When one team has thirteen flags, and the other just four, it is bad officiating and the refs themselves know this.

dgobronco
09-16-2013, 01:51 PM
I don't usually buy into the referee bias thing, but I'm watching the replay, and it has me wondering. The calls against us were strangely relevant, coming either when we made a conversion or prevented one. Add another suspicious call to those already discussed: The Decker offensive PI was on the play to Orange Julius where Moreno blew up the CB. The flag came out before the reception. Decker lined up on the right and crossed inside, in the opposite direction of JT. Decker and a LB clipped shoulders within 5 yards the LOS. The LB was on Decker - it was not a pick on the defensive player following JT. The LB stayed with Decker, and neither player was slowed or knocked off course by the contact. Neither player was involved in the actual pass or anywhere near it. Not sure how that can possibly be justified. It did, however, negate a 1st down conversion on a 3rd down play.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 03:12 PM
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Another example would be late in the game. All a team would have to do is take the receiver out on a hail mary and let the clock run out. I'd be OK with that though. If you're in that position, you don't deserve to win on a fluke bomb or desperation go route anyways. DB's could just take guys out when they get beat, but think about it. If you're close enough to interfere with a guy about to make a catch, you're probably close enough to make a play. And there's no guarantee that the receiver is going to catch the ball either.

The other thing I forgot is the game can't end on a defensive penalty. So late in a game, you'd only be hurting your team, giving them 15 more yards.

You guys bring up good points

Maybe the solution would be a new variation on the [15 yard Pass Interference idea OR the half the yardage to the spot pass interference penalty idea] called INTENTIONAL pass interference which WOULD be a spot foul. They had to implement such a rule in Basketball.

Pass Interference is too much of a game changing call when the offense doesn't even have to execute the play.

I'd be ok with half the distance to the spot of the foul or 15 yards and auto first down with the intentional PI variation added to keep from being able to capitalize on a penalty.

But awarding a full spot of the foul yardage just doesn't make sense at all to me - it never has and it changes outcomes of games and SO many times it's a controversial call.

dizzolve
09-16-2013, 03:17 PM
I don't usually buy into the referee bias thing, but I'm watching the replay, and it has me wondering. The calls against us were strangely relevant, coming either when we made a conversion or prevented one. Add another suspicious call to those already discussed: The Decker offensive PI was on the play to Orange Julius where Moreno blew up the CB. The flag came out before the reception. Decker lined up on the right and crossed inside, in the opposite direction of JT. Decker and a LB clipped shoulders within 5 yards the LOS. The LB was on Decker - it was not a pick on the defensive player following JT. The LB stayed with Decker, and neither player was slowed or knocked off course by the contact. Neither player was involved in the actual pass or anywhere near it. Not sure how that can possibly be justified. It did, however, negate a 1st down conversion on a 3rd down play.

I have always respected Gene Steratoure or whatever his name is. I like his style and I like how he calls his games. But I think judging by his accent and attitude lol, he's from the TriState area up there around NY and probably is a fan of the Giants.

I'm not saying he's been paid off but maybe subconsciously he called it in favor of NY. It'd only be human if he WAS a NY fan. I don't think it was any kind of organized attempt to help the Giants -if it was I'd really by disappointed in Gene and basically the NFL in general.

Last year's post season game has all of our antennae up. Last year was a disgusting display of subpar if not completely biased officiating.

notwithit
09-16-2013, 07:54 PM
Usually I like Gene S but his crew today was awful.

BTW, CBS is removing that annoying yellow ticker that looks like a flag.


I am so happy you posted this. Ohh my gosh that was so annoying.

Rancid
09-16-2013, 08:00 PM
I would like to think that the officials make mistakes-- sometimes it is our turn to get the dumb ones and sometimes it is the other team's turn. I do not mind it being our turn when we get the win and hope it is the other team's turn when we need it.

Joshecalpoly
09-16-2013, 08:39 PM
Tony Carter was a bit rough but he didnt do much that Sherman didnt do that night

sybrite
09-17-2013, 05:42 AM
Off the top of my head there were 5 calls that bothered me, the rest were probably legit.
- The targeting call on Moore was ridiculous. His shoulder hit the guy in the chest; it was as perfect a hit as you are allowed to make.
- There was a P.I. call late in the first half down the near sideline, I think DRC was in coverage. He interfered with him, no doubt, but the WR was running a go pattern and Eli was throwing a hook, thus the throw was at least 10 yards short of the targeted WR. At least make that a holding or illegal contact call and not a spot foul. Made more than a 15-yard difference and moved them into FG range.
- On 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter after the game was over, Tony Carter was flagged for PI that was nothing more than great coverage. Game was over, but the call was nonsense. (I think it was this one, but I might be confusing this with a similar call on the previous drive, both were Carter covering Randle, on the near side of the field.
- The ineligible man downfield call on Franklin on the screen to Thomas deep in our own territory. Letter of the law v. spirit of the law call.
- The PI on DRC on Nicks slant on 3rd and 2 deep in our territory. That's good coverage.

I was okay with the rest, including the taunting penalty. I don't view all the flags as an issue that needs fixing, just a series of bad calls in a small sample set.

I remember this penalty and one of the announcers (I forget which one) said it was a good call and that the rules need to be called every time, even when the game may be out of hand. If that is the case, what happened on the last play of the Super Bowl last year. Everyone was screaming how it was good for them to "let them play" when it was obviously PI. That could have been a game changer (or at least I think since I'm not sure how the clock may have been affected had it been called). Either way, the consistence and lopsidedness is what kills me. After the playoff game with Baltimore last year, I said the Ravens were going to win the Super Bowl, and low and behold, they did.

Hadez
09-17-2013, 06:29 AM
I watched NFL RedZone today and there were a lot of bad calls. It's out of control because the officials don't know what they're seeing in the blink of an eye. The officials tried to eject Clinton-Dix (Alabama) yesterday after a clean, perfect hit. Automatic first downs are delivered in bunches. Something must be done about this because the quality of the game is going down. Not everyone has Peyton Manning on the field to ignore the officials and build a huge lead no matter what. The officials can ruin a tight game and they do it quite often.

Yea I agree.

Our game was not the only NFL game that had real poor calls this weekend.

Someone else said calls should be reviewed...the judgement ones no but helmet to helmet calls should be. Too many times since this penalty was put in place have I see it called and there actually be no helmet to helmet contact.

They need to chill out on "defenseless" player calls. I understand no spearing or no helmet to helmet but a hard hit with the shoulderpads to jar a ball loose should be allowed.

PI is too much a grey area already....if this was reviewable different people would have different opinions and they would be reviewing the play all day.

Houshmazode
09-17-2013, 06:32 AM
I remember this penalty and one of the announcers (I forget which one) said it was a good call and that the rules need to be called every time, even when the game may be out of hand. If that is the case, what happened on the last play of the Super Bowl last year. Everyone was screaming how it was good for them to "let them play" when it was obviously PI. That could have been a game changer (or at least I think since I'm not sure how the clock may have been affected had it been called). Either way, the consistence and lopsidedness is what kills me. After the playoff game with Baltimore last year, I said the Ravens were going to win the Super Bowl, and low and behold, they did.
That was Phil Simms who flip-flopped from his stance earlier in the game after saying they were calling too many close calls. He was just whiny his team was getting beat down.

BroncoNTemecula
09-17-2013, 10:03 AM
Usually I like Gene S but his crew today was awful.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1909tcpxkznnrgif/original.gif
BTW, CBS is removing that annoying yellow ticker that looks like a flag.

I hope someone got fired over that decision. It was like when the power goes out and I go and flip the light switch every five minutes forgetting that the power is out. Every play I'm looking at the screen going crap another flag?


Off the top of my head there were 5 calls that bothered me, the rest were probably legit.
- The targeting call on Moore was ridiculous. His shoulder hit the guy in the chest; it was as perfect a hit as you are allowed to make.
- There was a P.I. call late in the first half down the near sideline, I think DRC was in coverage. He interfered with him, no doubt, but the WR was running a go pattern and Eli was throwing a hook, thus the throw was at least 10 yards short of the targeted WR. At least make that a holding or illegal contact call and not a spot foul. Made more than a 15-yard difference and moved them into FG range.
- On 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter after the game was over, Tony Carter was flagged for PI that was nothing more than great coverage. Game was over, but the call was nonsense. (I think it was this one, but I might be confusing this with a similar call on the previous drive, both were Carter covering Randle, on the near side of the field.
- The ineligible man downfield call on Franklin on the screen to Thomas deep in our own territory. Letter of the law v. spirit of the law call.
- The PI on DRC on Nicks slant on 3rd and 2 deep in our territory. That's good coverage.

I was okay with the rest, including the taunting penalty. I don't view all the flags as an issue that needs fixing, just a series of bad calls in a small sample set.

That was just a mistake on the ref's part, I thought they would discuss it and get the call right but they didn't. Should have been no flag, but at most holding or illegal contact


Tony Carter was a bit rough but he didnt do much that Sherman didnt do that night

The glove (Tony Carter) was covering so tight sometimes it looked like just one guy running down the field. Tony (extra small latex glove) Carter. Just be a mitten Tony and you'll be great.

samparnell
09-17-2013, 01:33 PM
The glove (Tony Carter) was covering so tight sometimes it looked like just one guy running down the field. Tony (extra small latex glove) Carter. Just be a mitten Tony and you'll be great.

Tony looks like he has played his share of hacky-sack. :D

one_bad_55
09-17-2013, 04:53 PM
I was just watching the Wolfe & Moreno mic'd up video on the Broncos home page and one of the plays the tackle literally close-lined Wolfe and threw him to the ground. Wolfe looked right at the ref and said are you serious, didn't you see that? :laugh: The ref replied, yeah, it was a tackle, and I don't think he meant the player position that did it.

It is at the 3:00 minute mark


http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Micd-Up-Moreno-and-Wolfe/8230be0f-531e-48de-b002-15107b4dbbd9

These refs are becoming laughable and it is a disgrace to the league.

dizzolve
09-23-2013, 06:39 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000249426/article/referees-error-cost-minnesota-vikings-15yard-penalty

Ooops say it aint so

Another rules change confuses refs to the point of changing game outcomes

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/bill-leavy-127-2009-nfl-hall-fame-game-1dihrl.jpg