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View Full Version : Big Ben a HOF QB ?



bronx_2003
09-27-2013, 01:52 PM
http://www.steelersfever.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100529

I like watching Big Ben and he has had some success before but this seems incredibly deluded to me.

An elite QB ? A HOF QB ?

There has been 4 elite QB's for a good few years..... PM and Brady probably elite elite lol......... and then you get into the next tier where there is quite a few.

PM and Brady are locks for the HOF. Bree's has a decent chance but probably not first ballot. Rodgers is on his way but far too early in his career.

AznBroncoFan
09-27-2013, 01:59 PM
Brees and Rodgers are far superior to Overrated Troy Aikman. His numbers are garbage yet his ridiculously talented team made him look good and made idiot voters vote him 1st ballot.

InsaneBlaze23
09-27-2013, 02:02 PM
Yes and who knows. You can never tell what the voters are looking for in certain players. Ben isn't a Brett Favre, John Elway, Brady, or Manning whom was/are first ballot hall of famers before their careers even end(ed).

But he is elite and he is underrated. Dude is a monster and always plays hurt...problem is he never has weapons, he never has an above average back besides uncle Bettis, and he has always had one of the worst OL's in the AFC.

He has/had the skills,talent, and potential to be great but that's easier said than done when your team isn't doing very well drafting and signing FA's. He isn't Rodgers or Manning whom can make Charles Rodgers look like Rod Smith. That's what separates elite and hall of fame. The ability to make others players better just simply because you are there.

But I hope he does get in at some point. Besides him being a Steeler and making terrible off the field decisions, I like Ben and would have loved to have him as QB in Denver....and I'm sure he wouldn't have minded that either considering he's a John Elway fan.

Speaking of Ben, Josh Freeman was the only QB I've seen so far that likes him. Him being a Big QB who takes a lot of damage but can also get things done on his feet. If the Bucs don't re-sign him, I wouldn't mind if Denver picked him up to back-up Manning and battle Oz. That'd be real competition for him and Freeman isn't as bad as the Bucs make him look. Not too long ago people thought he was one of the more talent young QB's.

InsaneBlaze23
09-27-2013, 02:07 PM
Brees and Rodgers are far superior to Overrated Troy Aikman. His numbers are garbage yet his ridiculously talented team made him look good and made idiot voters vote him 1st ballot.

I think Brees will get in even if his career ended today, he has everything a QB needs and even has something some hall of fame QB's don't have. Rodgers would get in if he doesn't get hurt and continue his career at the high level he has been playing at since he took over for Favre. Since then he has been top 3 with Manning and Brady.

What's odd about Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning that separates them from the others is neither of them had good defenses. They literally carried their teams. We saw how bad the Colts are without Manning, the defense wasn't that different from the Super Bowl team. Pats have always had a bottom rank defense during the Brady era and not even Green Bay had that good of a defense in 2010. Most of those players are still on the team, and what they did do was get a lot of turn overs which helps since Rodgers doesn't turn it over himself much. Plus Matthews was getting in the back. But that defense still allowed a lot of yards and scores.

bronx_2003
09-27-2013, 02:17 PM
No offense but getting Freeman would be a shocking move.

Apart from the fact that I don't really rate him he was stripped of his captaincy, it was reported some of his team-mates asked the coach to take it away. He was late to a meeting due to an 'alarm clock' problem, has a poor work ethic, and its also now being reported that his team mates are pleased Freeman got yanked.

Regarding Big Ben and the HOF. I am someone who thinks the HOF should be for the elite only. Thats not Big Ben. If you look at his stats a lot of them have been mediocre. He can make big plays and went for a few seasons being a 'good' QB but he is no where near the top 4.

fightinglee
09-27-2013, 02:22 PM
I dont think so. I would not call him an elite QB, but I bet he makes it. I don't think he will make first ballot, but I think he could make it eventually. He is a tough guy, and he can sling it for sure. I think he was the right fit for that Pitt team early on, but the team now is just a ghost of its formal self.

HUMCALC
09-27-2013, 03:23 PM
Big Ben HAS to make the HOF. He's like Eli, not flashy during the regular season but once the playoffs starts, he finds ways to win (Minus the Tebow game). He's 2-1 in the SB, and EVERY QB with 2+ rings AND a winning record is in the HOF

bronx_2003
09-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Big Ben HAS to make the HOF. He's like Eli, not flashy during the regular season but once the playoffs starts, he finds ways to win (Minus the Tebow game). He's 2-1 in the SB, and EVERY QB with 2+ rings AND a winning record is in the HOF

If Eli and Ben go in Canton then it really will become a joke

Charlie Brown
09-27-2013, 03:58 PM
Hall of Fame? Absolutely not. He is not HOF worthy.

fallforward3y+
09-27-2013, 04:33 PM
I think Brees will get in even if his career ended today, he has everything a QB needs and even has something some hall of fame QB's don't have. Rodgers would get in if he doesn't get hurt and continue his career at the high level he has been playing at since he took over for Favre. Since then he has been top 3 with Manning and Brady.

What's odd about Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning that separates them from the others is neither of them had good defenses. They literally carried their teams. We saw how bad the Colts are without Manning, the defense wasn't that different from the Super Bowl team. Pats have always had a bottom rank defense during the Brady era and not even Green Bay had that good of a defense in 2010. Most of those players are still on the team, and what they did do was get a lot of turn overs which helps since Rodgers doesn't turn it over himself much. Plus Matthews was getting in the back. But that defense still allowed a lot of yards and scores.

It never ceases to amaze me how despite the body of work of elite QBs, people still feel they need to invent exaggerated and ridiculous reasons to further ride their jock. The truth about these QBs is enough.

Green Bay had the 5th yardage defense in 2010, and the 2nd scoring defense. They choked in the playoffs in 2011 when they had a bad one.

New England in 2001 had the 6th scoring defense, in 2003 they had the 1st, and in 2004 3rd. 9th in yardage in 2004 as well, and 7th in 2003. They also had a defense that could score points in those years, and created turnovers to set their offense up in great situations.

Indy had a bad regular season defense in 2006, but it stepped up in the playoffs. It took KC until the 4th quarter I think to even get a first down, only 6 points given to BAL. In the AFCC game, they gave up 27(taking away the 7 from the defensive TD), but they did hold Brady on his GW drive attempt. In the Super Bowl, they gave up 10, when you take away the kick return from Hester, and they clinched the game with a pick 6.

Brees is the only one who's team won a ring without a defense that at least played great in the POs, with a great balanced offense and a bend but don't break defense that could at least create turnovers.

Defense plays a role, and in fact Brady likely would have zero rings had he not had very good defenses.

fallforward3y+
09-27-2013, 04:40 PM
If Eli and Ben go in Canton then it really will become a joke

Agreed on Ben, Eli may be worthy though.

Ultimately though, people need to stop holding up the HOF on a pedestal. It is so highly coveted and if someone makes it in, many will not question it because if the HOF committee says it they think it must be true. The criteria is often very faulty, if I were an NFL player I would care very little about it.

In the end, your body of work is what it is, regardless of what the committee thinks.

fallforward3y+
09-27-2013, 04:58 PM
Yes and who knows. You can never tell what the voters are looking for in certain players. Ben isn't a Brett Favre, John Elway, Brady, or Manning whom was/are first ballot hall of famers before their careers even end(ed).

But he is elite and he is underrated. Dude is a monster and always plays hurt...problem is he never has weapons, he never has an above average back besides uncle Bettis, and he has always had one of the worst OL's in the AFC.

He has/had the skills,talent, and potential to be great but that's easier said than done when your team isn't doing very well drafting and signing FA's. He isn't Rodgers or Manning whom can make Charles Rodgers look like Rod Smith. That's what separates elite and hall of fame. The ability to make others players better just simply because you are there.

But I hope he does get in at some point. Besides him being a Steeler and making terrible off the field decisions, I like Ben and would have loved to have him as QB in Denver....and I'm sure he wouldn't have minded that either considering he's a John Elway fan.

Speaking of Ben, Josh Freeman was the only QB I've seen so far that likes him. Him being a Big QB who takes a lot of damage but can also get things done on his feet. If the Bucs don't re-sign him, I wouldn't mind if Denver picked him up to back-up Manning and battle Oz. That'd be real competition for him and Freeman isn't as bad as the Bucs make him look. Not too long ago people thought he was one of the more talent young QB's.

Ben is not underrated, at all. He is taken for exactly what he is, questions of how he ranks usually result in a debate over whether a QB should be judged by wins or not, because he is not elite based on ability.

He is a decent QB, with upside of course. Great at extending the play, and very tough. Used to be a great GW drive QB, but now he isn't anymore. However, he's not elite, at all.

Pitts had a top running game from 04-07. You may not have viewed Parker as an elite RB, but the fact is the run game was effective, and one of the best. An effective and consistent run game assists a QB regardless. He has also had a pretty good receiving core in recent years. A great safety valve in Miller, along with receivers like Mike Wallace, and underrated guys in Sanders and Cotchery that weren't elite, but helped in their roles.

Without their top defense, they don't even make the playoffs in either Super Bowl year. Ben is good, but has never played like a consistently elite QB.

CoryWinget81
09-28-2013, 08:23 AM
Every QB with two rings is in the HOF. For a stretch of 6 or 7 years he was the most clutch QB in the league.

He's not only a HOFer, but he's first ballot.

EddieMac
09-28-2013, 08:29 AM
I agree with Corey. As much as he is a turd of a human being he has dome things at QB that changed the game when you play him. If he plays crappy until he retires then he hurts his chances for an early nomination but he will get in.

theMileHighGuy
09-28-2013, 08:30 AM
I agree with Cory, there are QBs in the Hall with lesser accolades than Ben. If they can get some weapons that aren't 5'9" and can catch they might be in the running for another SB yet as well.

Frankenpost
09-28-2013, 09:18 AM
HOFer?

For beating the Cardinals and Seahawks in the SB? eh..

CoryWinget81
09-28-2013, 10:22 AM
HOFer?

For beating the Cardinals and Seahawks in the SB? eh..

Those cardinals should have won, and Ben threw probably one of the most clutche, on point passes in SB history to steal it.

Chillez
09-28-2013, 02:34 PM
I think Ben will eventually make the HOF but not first ballout. He just isn't. Big Ben was never elite but was contently pretty good for a lot of years he was NEVER in Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Bress class as stats, accolades, pure passer, yards, TD, etc... Ben played behind great defense for the majority of his career, and had luxury very good running game for bunch of years. All in all he will get in HOF at some point.

HUMCALC
09-28-2013, 03:28 PM
I think Ben will eventually make the HOF but not first ballout. He just isn't. Big Ben was never elite but was contently pretty good for a lot of years he was NEVER in Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Bress class as stats, accolades, pure passer, yards, TD, etc... Ben played behind great defense for the majority of his career, and had luxury very good running game for bunch of years. All in all he will get in HOF at some point.

He has a better record vs. Brady than a lot of other QBs have (Minus Eli)

CoryWinget81
09-28-2013, 05:10 PM
I think Ben will eventually make the HOF but not first ballout. He just isn't. Big Ben was never elite but was contently pretty good for a lot of years he was NEVER in Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Bress class as stats, accolades, pure passer, yards, TD, etc... Ben played behind great defense for the majority of his career, and had luxury very good running game for bunch of years. All in all he will get in HOF at some point.

The one thing you're not accounting for is the fact that he is a steeler. Voters love steelers.

Chillez
09-28-2013, 06:33 PM
The one thing you're not accounting for is the fact that he is a steeler. Voters love steelers.

Haha, yeah that too. He will get in eventually.

fallforward3y+
09-28-2013, 10:02 PM
He has a better record vs. Brady than a lot of other QBs have (Minus Eli)

Which does absolutely zero to disprove that the wins came largely as a result of the defense. The whole "x QB record versus x QB" is dumb anyway, QBs never are facing each other on the field at the same time, facing another QB has zero impact on each QBs play.

fallforward3y+
09-28-2013, 10:14 PM
I agree with Corey. As much as he is a turd of a human being he has dome things at QB that changed the game when you play him. If he plays crappy until he retires then he hurts his chances for an early nomination but he will get in.

Unfortunately he probably will, not for deserving reasons though. His ability to extend the play does change the game plan, but that's true of a lot of QBs. He is not, and never has been elite. He used to be the best GW drive QB, but that doesn't make you elite, you have to play well consistently. Otherwise, your team just keeps it close enough despite you. Tebow even has nearly perfect on GW drives.

In 2010, we saw how Pitts suffers very little with their QB out. Everyone said they were dead without him, they go 3-1, against good teams. They beat a 13-3 Falcons team, slaughtered a 10-6 Bucs team, and even came close to beating the Ravens if not for a final GW drive. Everyone thought they were some amazing team that would go undefeated on his return, they have the same win percentage. It seems no matter how much evidence there is against it, Ben's jock will continue to be ridden by his fan boys.

It's ironic really, that the fans of a team with probably the best defensive tradition in the NFL hated the thought of being able to win with defense, without their QB so much. Bears fans love the thought of it.

Bootleg
09-29-2013, 02:25 AM
Bree's has a decent chance but probably not first ballot.

He'll be first ballot considering the fact he'll more than likely be in the top 3 all time in terms of passing yards. He still has a chance to be #1 at the pace he's going.


Every QB with two rings is in the HOF

Plunkett isn't.

HUMCALC
09-29-2013, 10:00 AM
He'll be first ballot considering the fact he'll more than likely be in the top 3 all time in terms of passing yards. He still has a chance to be #1 at the pace he's going.



Plunkett isn't.

Because he doesn't have a career winning record. He's the only one

mojo0730
09-29-2013, 10:55 PM
This is a REALLY early conversation to be having about Ben, and Eli for that matter.

It's hard to take someone's career into this type of context when they're only 9 years in. For example, it would have been unlikely that Elway would have been a Hall of Fame candidate 9 years into his career despite 3 Super Bowl appearances and playoff berths in all but 3 of those seasons. Ditto for a guy like Steve Young.

VADER72
09-30-2013, 02:18 PM
Ben is not a HOF QB