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Alastor
12-10-2004, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the great intro I got. I'm proud to be working with such a patient and thoughtful team. Thanks for the opportunity!

I want to give some idea of what we're up to. I can't get very specific as we have a lot of options, and I'd hate to promise something and not deliver.

Our community is growing rapidly. Sometimes it becomes hard to keep track of who is really here to stay and who is simply here for a week, a month, or a season. We're working on a system that would allow each of the users of the boards to develop a sort of "credibility" within the community.

It gives recognition to those who have been part of the boards longer and have been a consistent and positive presence in the community, which helps us all tell who is here for the long haul and who is not.

The credibility system we're working on will allow those posters who post with decency, respect and insight to get a sort of notoriety among the community. Users can build up or lose credibility over time depending on how they interact on the boards. The great thing is that the users are the ones that determine what a good post is and isn’t – as well as giving you each a chance to express why you felt that way.

This helps the members of the community as a whole pick out who is simply a heckler from another team that has come here to stir up trouble for a weekend, and who is really a member of the community that has good input and should be paid attention to. At the same time it doesn’t prevent heckling all together, so those that like to talk smack can still find plenty of folks to do that with.

There will naturally be some rewards to this system. Having a good amount of credibility on the boards will have some perks and benefits to it.

This is a great way for the community to shape itself and create an even better environment than already exists for the most important people here, the users.

It gives each of you a chance to express yourselves positively and constructively, and to distinguish yourselves on the boards here. We're very excited about the project as we hope you are, and I'm thrilled to be part of it.

Snk16
12-10-2004, 01:38 PM
Sounds cool.

Bronx84
12-10-2004, 04:26 PM
Hey Alastor make this project awesome.

Alastor
12-10-2004, 06:51 PM
We'll do our best! Thanks!

Vulcan
12-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Sounds like the reputation system of vBulletin.

Chaji
12-10-2004, 07:20 PM
Elitism = bad. Just my opinion, though.

Alastor
12-10-2004, 08:17 PM
It's that system. We're not sure what tag name we're putting on it yet, Vulcan.

Elitism is something that should always be distrusted and looked out for, Chaji, and for good reasons as you point out. I'd ask that you give it a chance and see how it shakes out before making conclusions about it though. It can be set up countless different ways and have varying degrees of impact. So... don't rush to judge anything. Credibility and popularity aren't the same things. We're being very cautious of the "popularity contest" aspect of the system. I've installed this system other places and it hasn't suffered from those issues. I'm confident we can work it out here too.

Keep an open mind is all we ask. Certainly it's too early to judge it now at least.

theMileHighGuy
12-10-2004, 09:03 PM
You said that the new 'reputations' will be governed by the members of the board. How can a "trust system" like this work with the hordes of n'er-do-well's that camp these boards looking for a fight? Will certain "judging privelages" only be alotted to people with a certain number of posts - intelligent and ignorant alike?

Sounds a lot like a competition to me...

Alastor
12-11-2004, 08:04 AM
Okay, we're getting into nuts and bolts here... and a great question...

Okay, there are settings that allow us to establish how much each user can affect each other. We can set it so that those who don't have much credibility also don't impact anyone else's credibility very much.

The system really does require that for any changes to take place, the majority of the community has to have the same feeling about a post. If half of the posters like a post, and the other half hates it, it comes out as a wash. Even when one side is the majority, that still might not be enough to have any real impact. What actually has to happen is a poster has to have an ongoing habit of posting one way or the other in order to earn status or lose it. It has to happen over time, and isn't something that can be affected by one post, three posts, or even ten or twenty posts. It takes an ongoing pattern in order for it to really have much impact at all.

Let's say we have the system set so that for every 200 points of community status a person earns, they can affect someone else's standing by an extra point. That's still only two points if they even get that high, and something tells me that since the majority of posters on this board are good posters who use decency and thought in their posts, you guys will have the upper hand.

Essentially the n'er-do-wellers won't ever get the ability to have much impact, unless you guys give it to them. A newbie coming onto the boards for the first time isn't going to have nearly the status that the regulars do, and rightfully so. They're also not going to have nearly the potency in their input that those of you who are long time posters have.

In essence, those that have shown themselves to be significant in the community and that have posted well and earned the respect of their peers will by default account for that type of thing, and your actions will outweigh those of someone who is just a heckler.

If someone has been here a long time and they've posted bright things and earned a lot of support from the community, their votes will single-handedly wipe out any contrary votes by two or three newbies that just signed up today. The n'er-do-wellers really won't have much impact. Neither will those coming from other boards to be a pain for a week. The regular users will have much more impact in the system. The "one post wonders" aren't even worth mentioning really.

When I get the specifics set up I'll explain this in more detail with specific examples if you'd like.

It's hard to explain, but maybe that gave a vague answer? If not let me know and I'll clarify.

Vulcan
12-11-2004, 08:30 AM
It's that system. We're not sure what tag name we're putting on it yet, Vulcan.


:smug: You better not abuse the system and give yourself a rep of 2000000 like the admins at this one forum do. :P

Alastor
12-11-2004, 09:30 AM
What one forum if I can ask?

And no. Not to worry about that. That sort of takes the fun out of it anyway.

Vulcan
12-11-2004, 09:35 AM
What one forum if I can ask?

And no. Not to worry about that. That sort of takes the fun out of it anyway.

It was www.rpgpalace.net/v4 but it was deleted. The makers of that made http://www.anfiniti.net/forums/ but it doesn't have the rep. system. I make the emotions there, also.

Alastor
12-11-2004, 09:50 AM
Ah. Shew. Just wanted to see if it was a site I had worked with before. Thanks for sharing.

The system sort of falls apart if it's not well structured and handled with intergrity by the mods and admin. I mean once built it can run on its own, but not if a bunch of folks are out there bolstering themselves. That makes the whole thing sort of useless really. If you want an exclusive club like that, you can just set up user groups for that anyway, and it's much more efficient in my opinion. Not to knock your guys or anything. Just... it sort of defeats the purpose of the system.

Snk16
12-11-2004, 12:35 PM
Alastor, you got promoted to an admin?

Snk16
12-11-2004, 12:43 PM
So with this reputation system, will everyone start out the same or will it have to do with past post?

Vulcan
12-11-2004, 12:58 PM
So with this reputation system, will everyone start out the same or will it have to do with past post?

Most likely eveyrone will start out the same.

Alastor
12-11-2004, 01:11 PM
Most likely eveyrone will start out the same.

We have options to discuss. I need to look at the user activity here and such a bit more and try to build a comprehensive plan that will work rather than just be an annoyance before we decide, and of course we need to debate and discuss it amongst ourselves first, but that's always an option, and one that will likely be looked at pretty closely here. It's certainly the easiest way to do it of the ways we can install it. Easiest isn't always best though. We want what's best.

So... we don't know yet. I'll let you know when we do. Would you prefer it to work that way?

Snk16
12-11-2004, 01:40 PM
Yeah, I'd prefer it to be like everyone starts out the same way. Just because, some of the people have been here forever and some have just been here shorter. Just thinking that because it evens out the playing field. It'll make things easier for you. And it probably would be best.

Ohio Broncos
12-11-2004, 01:45 PM
I have to say that I'm really, really intrigued by this. Good luck in making it work. :beer:

twotone
12-11-2004, 02:33 PM
when will we see this begin?

Alastor
12-11-2004, 05:09 PM
when will we see this begin?

I don't think we're ready to pin ourselves down to a specific date or even ballpark date, so you get the general, "Soon."

Alastor.

Fat Joe
12-11-2004, 05:25 PM
There used to be something like this on the old Paintball City forums way back when, it was "the karma system" and it was cool and all, but just another thing to think about along with some other things mentioned on here is that when one member even disagrees with a post, they're far more likely to give it a negative "vote" or what ever it will be even if the post is quality.


Just something else I've noticed from other forums in the past.

Booher
12-11-2004, 07:12 PM
Does this mean there will be no more post count?

Alastor
12-11-2004, 07:24 PM
As far as I know you're welcome to discuss post counts and their impacts at any time you choose.

There is an option that allows post counts to be part of the formula for the system we're looking at, but I usually recommend avoiding use of it unless there's a really good reason to incorporate it. We haven't had enough time to evaluate that option here yet.



About unpopular opinions getting nailed...

If a poster is giving a dissenting view and is worried about the repurcussions... well, they can always ask someone to look into it. As Prog recently pointed out though, there's a way to have a minority opinion without making everyone hate you for it. In a sense, it's not so much what we have to say, but how we say it. If we offend each other a lot (and I know I'm pretty abrassive at times too), then we sort of have it coming, right?

But sometimes people do get nailed just for not agreeing with someone else. It largely comes out in the wash, but sometimes not too.

If and when those situations arise, we can address those. I've never been in a situation where we couldn't find a reasonable way to address those issues at least.

We'll address those things as they come up is what I'm saying. It's possible to do that, but each situation is different so I can't give a blanket, "This is how we'll handle it" answer right now.

Booher
12-11-2004, 07:29 PM
I wasen't asking is the post count was part of the formula I was just wondering if we will still have an individual post count.

Alastor
12-11-2004, 07:44 PM
Oh, my bad. Sorry, Booher, I Misunderstood.

I can't answer that. Maybe someone else can though?

Vulcan
12-11-2004, 10:09 PM
Maybe a poll to show what the board wants?

Alastor
12-12-2004, 10:56 AM
Um.. I don't have the authority to run a poll on post counts. Well, maybe I do but I don't think so. Even if I did I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. It's not really my place or what I've been asked to do, eh?

It's possible I'll be running a bunch of polls in the near future, but they'll mostly only pertain to the system we're putting in place. I think the post counts might be something that needs to be addressed separately perhaps?

If that's what you mean, Vulcan. If not, let me know.

theMileHighGuy
12-12-2004, 11:11 AM
You can answer this when you're not busy, no big deal.

But will there actually be a rating interface in the orange bar, Like:

Negative - Neutral - Positive
or
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

and will choosing a rating open another window with more options or a tally or something?

Just concerned for the crappy computer/dial-up kids.

Alastor
12-12-2004, 11:41 AM
Good question. No, it's not remotely that complex. It's just a tiny window with no unnecessary graphics (good news for dial-up) that pops up when you click on an icon near where the "Alert" button sits. You then give positive or negative feedback if you want (one click) and that's that. Very fast, very simple, and note that no one is required to do it ever... so if it happens to be an issue for someone for some odd reason, they don't need to go through it.

A lot of people on dial up tend to turn sigs off for this same reason. This is actually one step better for folks like that in that they don't even have to turn it off. They can just not ever open it to begin with if they don't want to use it.

There's not a scale to it like a rating system. Just, "I like this." or "I don't like this." and depending on what options we have there's a little place for a comment that's optional.

Very simple and fast.

Snk16
12-12-2004, 12:13 PM
Um.. I don't have the authority to run a poll on post counts. Well, maybe I do but I don't think so. Even if I did I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. It's not really my place or what I've been asked to do, eh?

It's possible I'll be running a bunch of polls in the near future, but they'll mostly only pertain to the system we're putting in place. I think the post counts might be something that needs to be addressed separately perhaps?

If that's what you mean, Vulcan. If not, let me know.

Dude, you should have the authority. Your an admin.

Alastor
12-12-2004, 02:23 PM
That's largely because in order to have the tools to do what I need to do that's how they had to set me up.

And again, it's not my place even if that wasn't the case.

Booher
12-12-2004, 02:53 PM
I see no reason to get rid of the post counter!

broncos_mgr
12-13-2004, 08:50 AM
First, I'm glad to see so many people weighing in on this topic. Like Alastor said, this will only work if we get feedback from the community.

Second, I don't think we have any intention of getting rid of the post counter.

Third, Alastor had the title of "administrator" for a while because the system gave him that automatically when we set him up to have access to the things he needs to access to make this work. He doesn't have authority to do things like remove users, add smilies and other tasks that I or the moderators typically perform. He's since changed that title to the much more cryptic "Word." anyway, so hopefully there won't any be more confusion about that.

RunByDesign
12-14-2004, 08:40 AM
The reputation system works great over at the Orangemane.

Don't know if any of you are users over there, but from the perspective from a user, I have to say that it is a good system and gives you a lot of feedback on your posts on a private level, while clearly indicating (and publicly, I might add) your overall input.

JWinn
12-16-2004, 12:37 PM
This all looks great. I look forward to it.

rcsodak
12-18-2004, 01:19 AM
OOOOOhhhhhh........goose pimples..........




:coffee:


Guess I didn't know the board was broken...... :ugh:

West
12-18-2004, 09:36 AM
The reputation system works great over at the Orangemane.

Don't know if any of you are users over there, but from the perspective from a user, I have to say that it is a good system and gives you a lot of feedback on your posts on a private level, while clearly indicating (and publicly, I might add) your overall input.

i was over there for a good month and yes that feature is great...like the stars thing? like veteran...rookie...hall of famer...stuff like that

Alastor
12-18-2004, 11:16 AM
You guys should have something thorough and meaty to digest by middle to end of the coming week.

Just so you know.

No one said the board was broken, rcsodak. Unless you're implying it was broken. Was it broken?

AZ Snake Fan
12-18-2004, 05:35 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

rcsodak
12-18-2004, 09:08 PM
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Now why couldn't I just say that........ :duh:

Bronx84
12-19-2004, 08:24 AM
When is it gonna be done Alastor?

Booher
12-19-2004, 12:36 PM
Now why couldn't I just say that........ :duh:


Welp both of you have spoken well.

Alastor
12-19-2004, 05:34 PM
I'll have something by the end of this week. Probably sooner, but I don't want to paint myself into a corner on it.

orangenblue420
12-20-2004, 12:13 PM
It gives recognition to those who have been part of the boards longer and have been a consistent and positive presence in the community, which helps us all tell who is here for the long haul and who is not.

The credibility system we're working on will allow those posters who post with decency, respect and insight to get a sort of notoriety among the community. Users can build up or lose credibility over time depending on how they interact on the boards. The great thing is that the users are the ones that determine what a good post is and isn’t – as well as giving you each a chance to express why you felt that way.




hmmm and this works in my favor how :confused: :laugh: :P

Alastor
12-22-2004, 05:43 PM
Are you kidding me? You have a fan club. I'd dare to call them groupies except I think they may take offense to that.

You'll be fine. Everyone will unless they try to go out of their way to provoke people. Wait and see.

NJBRONCOSFAN
12-23-2004, 06:58 AM
First, I'm glad to see so many people weighing in on this topic. Like Alastor said, this will only work if we get feedback from the community.

Second, I don't think we have any intention of getting rid of the post counter.

Third, Alastor had the title of "administrator" for a while because the system gave him that automatically when we set him up to have access to the things he needs to access to make this work. He doesn't have authority to do things like remove users, add smilies and other tasks that I or the moderators typically perform. He's since changed that title to the much more cryptic "Word." anyway, so hopefully there won't any be more confusion about that.
He can't add smilies!!!?!!?!?!?!?! :eek: :D

Bronx84
12-23-2004, 02:54 PM
I see no reason to get rid of the post counter!
Really we need that.

Snk16
12-23-2004, 04:07 PM
Just let Alastor do his work guys, don't make it harder for him.

Alastor, keep us updated ok?

rcsodak
12-23-2004, 05:08 PM
Just let Alastor do his work guys, don't make it harder for him.

Alastor, keep us updated ok?

Are you his monitor or something?
Quit brown-nosing......enough already.... :sick:

JRWIZ
12-23-2004, 05:22 PM
we also need a change in the "next thread- previous thread" botton. need it on teh top of th page as well as the bottom of the page.

Alastor
12-23-2004, 06:42 PM
Snk, thanks for the thoughts.

rcsodak, don't do that in this thread please. Let's keep this polite, mature and professional instead of turning it confrontational and into a flame fest?


we also need a change in the "next thread- previous thread" botton. need it on teh top of th page as well as the bottom of the page.

That's not within the scope of this project. You might consider starting another thread to ask so you make sure the admin see it.

RunByDesign
12-23-2004, 08:46 PM
I have noticed that several people have been concerned with the number of posts that they have and (if this is the same reutation sys. that other boards use) how much rep that the people that have a high number of posts will end up with.

Let me just say this: the quality of your posts definitely comes into play. I have seen people with as little as 100 posts have as much rep as someone with 10,000.

It really has everything to do with what kind of contribution that you are making to the virtual community.

Do nothing but flame and agitate people, chances are, you will have bad rep. Be affable and positive most of the time, chances are you will have rep beyond repute. :cheers:

Alastor
12-23-2004, 09:12 PM
Oh! Now that I see Vulcan's post I see what's up. Is it that some of you are concerned that the reputation will have something to do with how many posts you've made?

If that's the concern, the settings I proposed do not take into account post counts at all. Not in any way, shape or form. Post counts won't affect the scores and the scores won't affect the post counts. They'll remain two entirely seperate systems.

Of course as Vulcan points out, someone with 1 great post is probably not going to get as many kudos as someone with 100. Other than that, no... post counts are part of the system as I've proposed it - though I do not have the final say on it.

I offered to set the system up. How the system functions is not ultimately my decision. Thankfully I've been given a lot of chance to offer input so far though. How it winds up is anyone's guess at this stage, but if it were left solely to me post counts would not be part of the formula.

I'll post the formula we're going to use as soon as we have a clearer idea of what it will be for sure.

RunByDesign
12-23-2004, 09:30 PM
You know, there are the exceptions, as well.

There are guys that do nothing but argue 24/7, and have hella positive rep.

I am convinced that it is his articualte and intelligible style, his knack for humor and his solid argumentitive foundation.

So, those of you in the minority, that may be concerned that certain people may gang up on you and give you bad rep, don't fret. Just be astute, stick to your moral convictions and always try to present an argument with relative information.

More often than not, people will respect you if you take this kind of approach, even if they disagree with you.

Like I said, I see people come in every day, do not even make football posts and basically argue about politics and the like, but are well respected and have great rep, even though they are in the minority on issues.

It happens. Don't be afraid that the majority is going to gang up on you for your political or ideological affiliation.

Jared
12-23-2004, 09:48 PM
we also need a change in the "next thread- previous thread" botton. need it on teh top of th page as well as the bottom of the page.

yeah, I can run that by admin and the website guys.

Alastor
12-23-2004, 10:10 PM
There are tons of barriers in place that will prevent or nullify the concept of "ganging up" on someone already in place too. Not to mention that it's abuse of the system and can be tracked.

I'm hesitant to be more specific at this point, without more concrete feedback from the powers that be. When I have it I'll elaborate on what I can though.

It won't be something to worry about though. It's something I've very much taken into account already, and that the system was designed to help prevent (not just by me, but by the programmers as well). It's a rather sexy system really, as computer stuff goes.

Sorry I'm not dishing out specifics yet. I'd just hate to do that and then have to backtrack. As soon as I have specifics that are concrete I'll throw it out as fast as I can type it up.

But the system does account for the potential of human nature to a surprisingly competent degree. What it does not account for, we can account for when we install it.

Snk16
12-30-2004, 06:04 AM
Any updates Alastor?

Alastor
01-01-2005, 10:09 PM
I just got back into Denver and have just now finished checking email. I have no updates at this moment, but I expect one I can call "official" shortly - within a few days perhaps? Don't hold me to that, but that's the feeling I get.

Snk16
01-04-2005, 12:35 PM
I just got back into Denver and have just now finished checking email. I have no updates at this moment, but I expect one I can call "official" shortly - within a few days perhaps? Don't hold me to that, but that's the feeling I get.

Like by the end of the week?

Alastor
01-04-2005, 01:10 PM
We're working on an announcement pertaining to the project right now, as I type this.

Snk16
01-04-2005, 01:26 PM
We're working on an announcement pertaining to the project right now, as I type this.


Is it going to be in the announcement section?

Alastor
01-04-2005, 01:36 PM
I think so. It might be in other places too.

I'd almost say it's likely to get out today, but I can't be certain so don't quote me on that and take it as gospel or anything. [insert additional disclaimers here]

Alastor
01-04-2005, 11:05 PM
Good thing I left those disclaimers!

Tomorrow is likely. Still no promisses though.

broncos_mgr
01-05-2005, 12:17 PM
Don't blame Alastor for the delays, either. I'm holding up the train at this point going over all the details. :D

Alastor
01-05-2005, 02:48 PM
Nah, go ahead and blame me. Stalk me too. It makes me feel important.

Dream
01-05-2005, 02:59 PM
Sounds like a good plan, thanks for making it happen Alastor.

Alastor
01-05-2005, 03:02 PM
You're very welcome. It's not just me though. I just flip the switches.