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CanDB
03-18-2015, 12:02 PM
Thought I'd try a splashy title for this thread, to generate as much interest as possible.;) Actually I have a theory about Jay's career, and in that respect, give him some benefit of the doubt as to what he could have been as opposed to his rather ordinary career to date.

For the sake of discussion, I will do a "minimal" (not in-depth) comparison between Cutler and Aaron Rodgers. Otherwise I could spend pages trying to do a thorough job of it. But for the sake of brevity (ha ha....since when do I utilize brevity??), here's my view on what went down: Jay Cutler should not have been a starter in year one of his NFL career. Similarly, Aaron Rodgers should not have had to wait so long to get his opportunity to be a starter. But somewhere in between, both players would have gained from the experience.

Hey, I loved it when Shanny jumped into the draft ring with arms wide open, looking for his franchise QB. Cutler was known for his arm, and I believe even Mayock was touting him at the time. Only thing is, little did most of us know that he would be our starter before his first season ended. AND PLEASE......lets not get into a side debate about Jay vs Jake. That ship has sailed.

On the other hand, we are all too familiar with the way Rodgers had to sit and sit and sit, waiting for Favre to decide what he wanted to do. It was painful at times. I felt for the young man, even though I didn't know much about him. He seemed patient, and professional in the process. That's when I started to become a fan of his. You don't often see such young players with so much class.

In the end, one career has been characterized by his perceived lack of leadership, and occasional bad decisions leading to turnovers.....all the while being known for his amazingly strong arm, and some real toughness on the field. The other player has won a SB and a couple of MVPs, and is often described as the best QB in the game.

For me, Jay did not have time to develop his game, to include his thought process and leadership. I don't know for sure that he'd be a great QB had he sat for a year or two, but I do believe he did not evolve as he could have, by being thrown into the field of play so early. Aaron could have gained at least a year more experience on the field, but at very least, whatever he learned thru waiting has worked.

Lets look at some stats. I will use Passer Rate, even though some do not love it. But because it is a comprehensive stat, and includes most of the important aspects of the QB game, I believe it will be useful in support of my theory. Further, if it included stats for rushing, Rodgers would even outdistance Jay by more. But whatever.

Here are:

Jay's ratings: 88.5, 88.1, 86.0, 76.8, 86.3, 85.7, 81.3, 89.2, 88.6.....career - 85.2

Aaron's ratings: 39.8 (not starter), 48.2 (ns), 106.0 (ns), 93.8, 103.2, 101.2, 122.5, 108.0, 104.9, 112.2......career - 106.0

What this tells me is that Jay had a relatively good start, but never really progressed from it. It makes me think that he never learned to change what wasn't working, and perhaps became a bit set in his ways, being given the keys so early. Perhaps he is a bit stubborn, and has not tried hard enough to evolve, even though he was being coached to do so.

Aaron on the other hand, was effective from day one as a starter, and progressed to a high level. He has grown and developed. He had a lot of time to learn....too much if that's possible.....but he did the time and gained in the process.

Anyway, that's my view. I am not going to get into comparing the quality of teams, coaches, etc....that could go on for too long. Sure, I might give The Pack points for being a better team since these two men started, but it's more than that. It's the progress and decision-making and leadership that tilt me this way.

Bottom line, I do think Denver did a bit of a disservice to Jay. But then again, they sure trusted him. It's almost a catch 22....

HUMCALC
03-18-2015, 12:08 PM
Cutler hurt Cutler's career. He came in with an attitude, and still hasn't learned how to win big games

CanDB
03-18-2015, 12:39 PM
Cutler hurt Cutler's career. He came in with an attitude, and still hasn't learned how to win big games

Geez HC.....you are tougher on Jay than even I. I do think he needed more mentoring along the way......whether or not he took the time to listen is unknown to me.

Joshua2585
03-18-2015, 12:46 PM
His attitude has always been the issue. All the physical talent in the world, but no leader.

Rastic
03-18-2015, 12:48 PM
The same argument can be made of a lot of guys, QBs or not. Some get pushed in early others have to wait until their number is called. The big difference maker is what you make of it.

With respect to the passer rating, you eluded that it does not tell the whole story and I would agree. Something you can get from it with the amount of data to pull from is a major difference between Rogers and Cutler is Roger's, according to the PR, clearly has a higher ceiling while Cutler came in average and remained so. Some of that might be attributed to the system one work in, that it might better suit the individual, but even after Cutler had time under his belt there was still no marked improvement, so...

Ultimately I think it was already said correctly, Cutler hurt his own career. Last year is a good example of this. He started off well but then, for the most part, just floundered.

Or you could blame the refs :D

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Referee-Knocks-off-Jay-Cutlers-Helmet.gif

dizzolve
03-18-2015, 01:11 PM
Did Jay Cutler hurt Jake 'the Snake' Plummer's career

CanDB
03-18-2015, 01:30 PM
The same argument can be made of a lot of guys, QBs or not. Some get pushed in early others have to wait until their number is called. The big difference maker is what you make of it.

With respect to the passer rating, you eluded that it does not tell the whole story and I would agree. Something you can get from it with the amount of data to pull from is a major difference between Rogers and Cutler is Roger's, according to the PR, clearly has a higher ceiling while Cutler came in average and remained so. Some of that might be attributed to the system one work in, that it might better suit the individual, but even after Cutler had time under his belt there was still no marked improvement, so...

Ultimately I think it was already said correctly, Cutler hurt his own career. Last year is a good example of this. He started off well but then, for the most part, just floundered.

Or you could blame the refs :D

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Referee-Knocks-off-Jay-Cutlers-Helmet.gif

That ref thing is so funny!!!! Jay looks hammered!!!

Jay should have been a receiver with those hands!

CanDB
03-18-2015, 01:31 PM
Did Jay Cutler hurt Jake 'the Snake' Plummer's career

I hear ya dizz.

dizzolve
03-18-2015, 02:02 PM
If you're suggesting Mike Shanny pulled the trigger too quick, I think yes - he did. Maybe a couple years carrying the ole clipboard instills some humility or at least leaves no room for the ego to multiply.

-Rod-
03-18-2015, 02:17 PM
The Broncos certainly hurt Cutler's career by firing the head coach that drafted him, but Cutler already has 6 seasons with the Bears which is plenty of time to get back on track. He could have been with the same coach in the same system since 2009, something that obviously did not happen and the Broncos have nothing to do with it. Cutler did not have continuity in his career, but he also did not improve his fundamentals regardless of system.

Today, personally, I think Shanahan should not have been fired while he was working with Cutler. The offense was loaded with young talent playing in a great scheme, Cutler was the least sacked QB and had a promising future and an 8-8 record is not exactly a disaster (compared to 4-12 in 2010). It looked like that team coached by Shanahan would get better in 2009, not worse. We just had to fix the defense. So, the glass was half full. For a coach that changed Broncos' history and was in charge since 1995, Shanahan deserved one last shot at developing a franchise QB.

Anyway, Cutler has been with the Bears for a long time, most of his career, and remains an underachiever because of himself and that franchise.

brianmcfarlane
03-18-2015, 02:26 PM
No, Cutler has had a fine "career", he likely makes as much money as he would have being a starter wherever in the NFL, many think he is overpaid. From what I understand he is playing for the team he always wanted to play for and he has a very pleasant life.
Is he less successful relative to some QB's with his potential due to starting late in his rookie season? I don't think so, many/most 1st round QB's nowadays end up starting in the their 1st season. I think in general starting a rookie QB is not best for development but some QB's handle it better than others. Cutler was pretty good his 2nd season here. His lack of progress could be partly due to having almost as many coaches as he has years in the NFL ... this last season statistically was his best since Denver and he missed 2-3? games. Getting traded I think made it more difficult for Cutler, so in that respect Denver was not good for Cutler's success on the field.

Has Rodgers had more than one head coach? How many OC has Rodgers had?

CanDB
03-18-2015, 03:18 PM
Good discussion folks!:thumb:

FL BRONCO
03-18-2015, 03:36 PM
Its my opinion that he he lacks intangibles that experience would not have exactly helped. He lacks leadership and heart. If he didn't have it by the time he hit the nfl, I don't think sitting him a year or 2 would have mattered for that and in the end, I think that is his biggest issues. Would he have benefited from sitting the bench for a full year or 2 before becoming the starter, I would say yes imo. Would it have changed the overall outcome of his career and what he has become in the long term, imo no. Just my opinion though.

CanDB
03-18-2015, 03:45 PM
Its my opinion that he he lacks intangibles that experience would not have exactly helped. He lacks leadership and heart. If he didn't have it by the time he hit the nfl, I don't think sitting him a year or 2 would have mattered for that and in the end, I think that is his biggest issues. Would he have benefited from sitting the bench for a full year or 2 before becoming the starter, I would say yes imo. Would it have changed the overall outcome of his career and what he has become in the long term, imo no. Just my opinion though.

No right answer......it's all good!

HUMCALC
03-18-2015, 04:52 PM
The Broncos certainly hurt Cutler's career by firing the head coach that drafted him, but Cutler already has 6 seasons with the Bears which is plenty of time to get back on track. He could have been with the same coach in the same system since 2009, something that obviously did not happen and the Broncos have nothing to do with it. Cutler did not have continuity in his career, but he also did not improve his fundamentals regardless of system.

Today, personally, I think Shanahan should not have been fired while he was working with Cutler. The offense was loaded with young talent playing in a great scheme, Cutler was the least sacked QB and had a promising future and an 8-8 record is not exactly a disaster (compared to 4-12 in 2010). It looked like that team coached by Shanahan would get better in 2009, not worse. We just had to fix the defense. So, the glass was half full. For a coach that changed Broncos' history and was in charge since 1995, Shanahan deserved one last shot at developing a franchise QB.

Anyway, Cutler has been with the Bears for a long time, most of his career, and remains an underachiever because of himself and that franchise.

What I can't and never will fathom is how Cutler and QBs like him with the talent at their disposal are allowed to stick around with mediocre records, and yet a certain QB (who shall remain nameless) has a winning record with less talent around him doesn't even get a tryout

Sam_Z
03-18-2015, 05:09 PM
Nobody hurt Cutler's career except for Cutler. Cutler hurt Cutler's career.

samparnell
03-18-2015, 06:48 PM
Short answer: No.

CanDB
03-18-2015, 07:19 PM
I see Daniel Jeremiah of The NFL Network has changed his mock draft to Chicago taking Mariota at #7. He says The Bears don't see Cutler being the long term plan anymore, and by drafting Mariota, they would clearly be thinking ahead.

If so, given Jeremiah is pretty sound when it comes to this sort of stuff, that does not bode well for their season ahead. It would be like, "we paid ya, because no one else would touch that contract, but we like this new kid. So lets just let this season ride, and expect a new leader sooner than later."

HUMCALC
03-18-2015, 07:44 PM
I see Daniel Jeremiah of The NFL Network has changed his mock draft to Chicago taking Mariota at #7. He says The Bears don't see Cutler being the long term plan anymore, and by drafting Mariota, they would clearly be thinking ahead.

If so, given Jeremiah is pretty sound when it comes to this sort of stuff, that does not bode well for their season ahead. It would be like, "we paid ya, because no one else would touch that contract, but we like this new kid. So lets just let this season ride, and expect a new leader sooner than later."

I'd laugh my butt off :)

CanDB
03-18-2015, 08:10 PM
I'd laugh my butt off :)

I was asking about this possibility, but prior to The Bears recommitting to Cutler. I thought they'd try to let him go, save some cash, and then sign someone like McCown.......before drafting Mariota. That would have been a logical process in which to move forward.

fallforward3y+
03-18-2015, 11:36 PM
It's hard to blame Denver at this point, because he has been with the Bears since 2009. What holds him back most I think is his risky ways of playing, and him not playing in a way that is good for effectiveness imo.

All the great QBs in the league seem to play understanding a certain order of plays in terms of their effectiveness, and hinderance to a drive. A short, solid gain is effective, an incompletion is better than a sack, a sack is better than an interception. Cutler though, seems to play a risky style, acting as though a short, solid gain isn't effective. Not to say the great QBs never make errors on risky throws, the fewest of guys over 300 pass attempts I believe was Rodgers with 5, however imo they don't make a habit of it and Cutler does.

I personally think his lack of leadership is overblown, and I think the same is true for many QBs. Not every guy is a firey guy, and they don't have to be to be a good player imo. Some guys are more quiet, but focused. I think it's something many in the media like to latch onto and overblow, like they did with Cam Newton.

I've even heard people blaming that for Peyton Manning's teams often not doing well in the playoffs, talks of how he doesn't motivate his team enough. If you need to be motivated to play well and help your team win games, then you probably don't belong in the NFL.

I'm not sure Cutler would be better if DEN had done things differently. I think that there has been plenty of time for him to fix certain issues he has had, and he either hasn't worked hard on them, or hasn't worked on them in an effective way, but either way he's had sufficient time to expect him to get better at them, however he hasn't.

AC1
03-31-2015, 09:24 AM
I wouldn't say that Denver hurt Cutler's career as much as the unnecessary firing of Mike Shanahan did. One of the most important thing for a young QB to flourish is a stable coaching environment and schematic consistency. If you look around the league, all the QBs that have had a great deal of success have had stability for a good part of their career. If you look at all the QBs that have not had stability, no one from that group has had a great deal of success (Cutler and Alex Smith might be the most accomplished of that group).

Essentially, a stable environment and schematic consistency may not be sufficient for a QB to become elite, but it is necessary. Without it, Jay Cutler and Alex Smith is the best you can hope to get.

Freyaka
03-31-2015, 10:12 AM
Geez HC.....you are tougher on Jay than even I. I do think he needed more mentoring along the way......whether or not he took the time to listen is unknown to me.

Yes, but it's one of the few times I agree with him. He didn't have to throw a huge hissy fit and demand a trade. Everything that happened is entirely on him.

He's proven through his career to be childish and focused on himself....Denver didn't cause that, he did.

broncoslover115
03-31-2015, 10:44 AM
Yes, but it's one of the few times I agree with him. He didn't have to throw a huge hissy fit and demand a trade. Everything that happened is entirely on him.

He's proven through his career to be childish and focused on himself....Denver didn't cause that, he did.

Yup!

10 char

Garfield
03-31-2015, 10:58 AM
Cutler hurt Cutler's career. He came in with an attitude, and still hasn't learned how to win big games

Cutlers inside the ears hurt his career.

FWIW the second that Shanahan drafted he was the starters in mikes mind.

They designed a drop back pocket passing scheme that cut Jakes nuts off. So it was a a matter of time before Mike could start Jay.

mike knew that he made a huge mistake when he started Greise over Bubby as he was the locker room favorite/ leader.

Mike knew that starting have m skins than he did would have destroyed both of them with the veterans.

Even when He did the locker room was divided.



Clearly the offensive scheme was an abortion as it disapeared soon after mikes friend left as an OC. But by then Jake was retired and Jay was cockier than ever.

His problem has always been not being able to stop himself from forcing balls. No amount of coaching has stopped it.

HUMCALC
03-31-2015, 03:18 PM
I do have to thank Shanahan for drafting Cutler, for without him there'd be no Tebow on the Broncos, and those were arguably the happiest days of my life. However, I'd LOVE to see Tebow in the Shanahan/Kubiak offense

CanDB
03-31-2015, 05:01 PM
Hey gang. Listen, I feel the same way most of you do....that Jay didn't help Jay. But I did feel compelled to ask the question about whether or not we rushed him a little. Clearly what people do is ultimately on them. But because I am such a tough critic of the guy, I thought I'd at least seek out other opinion. I do wonder why he has not progressed much in his career, especially after having so many weapons at his disposal in his last year.

Sad truth, if I was Fox and the OC, I'd be looking for another job as soon as things go south.

HUMCALC
03-31-2015, 05:56 PM
I always refer to Elway when it comes to starting/sitting a rookie, you learn faster what to do/what not to do by actually playing, than by holding a clipboard

fallforward3y+
03-31-2015, 07:20 PM
Hey gang. Listen, I feel the same way most of you do....that Jay didn't help Jay. But I did feel compelled to ask the question about whether or not we rushed him a little. Clearly what people do is ultimately on them. But because I am such a tough critic of the guy, I thought I'd at least seek out other opinion. I do wonder why he has not progressed much in his career, especially after having so many weapons at his disposal in his last year.

Sad truth, if I was Fox and the OC, I'd be looking for another job as soon as things go south.

Jay's biggest problems aren't things receivers can fix imo. His numbers have gone up with having better receivers it seems, however receivers imo wouldn't help his tendency to throw INTs, because that's more about a decision you make of where to throw it. No matter how bad your receivers are, you can still decide to throw the ball away if the throw isn't there imo.

Granted, with a defense like theirs a lot of QBs may feel like their team needs to score a lot of points to win, and that could influence them to want to make risky throws because they feel like they would have a slim chance to score enough points to win without them.

However, Jay was turnover prone even when CHI had a good defense it seems. In 2010, I remember when he threw 4 INTs against WAS, and I believe he mad multiple 4 INTs in 2009, when CHI's defense was not necessarily good, but decent most of the time, and imo nowhere near bad enough to reasonably influence a QB to feel like they need to put up 30 points to win most of the time.

Jay's arm is great, and I think maybe he gets a bit big play happy. The 'big play or it's a bad play' mentality imo doesn't work in the NFL. It's like a RB that avoids 3-4 yard gains often searching for the big run to open up. Eventually it may open up, but most of the time it won't, and if you take ineffective runs in search of a big run on most plays, then on most plays your not helping your offense be effective it would seem.

samparnell
03-31-2015, 09:01 PM
Didn't Jay ask for a trade? Didn't he want to go to Chicago? He has a large contract. Doesn't that indicate a certain level of success in his career?

AC1
03-31-2015, 09:52 PM
Yes, but it's one of the few times I agree with him. He didn't have to throw a huge hissy fit and demand a trade. Everything that happened is entirely on him.

He's proven through his career to be childish and focused on himself....Denver didn't cause that, he did.

Cutler's "childishness" is a false media narrative. Even the Chicago writers, who hate his guts, don't question his work ethic and philanthropy. They criticize his play, not his personality.

I don't want to go into the circumstances of the trade again, but let's just say that many people were at fault there and to blame the youngest of the participants in that dispute is somewhat oversimplifying what happened.

AC1
03-31-2015, 10:05 PM
Jay's biggest problems aren't things receivers can fix imo. His numbers have gone up with having better receivers it seems, however receivers imo wouldn't help his tendency to throw INTs, because that's more about a decision you make of where to throw it. No matter how bad your receivers are, you can still decide to throw the ball away if the throw isn't there imo.

Granted, with a defense like theirs a lot of QBs may feel like their team needs to score a lot of points to win, and that could influence them to want to make risky throws because they feel like they would have a slim chance to score enough points to win without them.

However, Jay was turnover prone even when CHI had a good defense it seems. In 2010, I remember when he threw 4 INTs against WAS, and I believe he mad multiple 4 INTs in 2009, when CHI's defense was not necessarily good, but decent most of the time, and imo nowhere near bad enough to reasonably influence a QB to feel like they need to put up 30 points to win most of the time.

Jay's arm is great, and I think maybe he gets a bit big play happy. The 'big play or it's a bad play' mentality imo doesn't work in the NFL. It's like a RB that avoids 3-4 yard gains often searching for the big run to open up. Eventually it may open up, but most of the time it won't, and if you take ineffective runs in search of a big run on most plays, then on most plays your not helping your offense be effective it would seem.

I think this might be the most valid criticism of Cutler's play. Interceptions happen when a QB is too aggressive with the ball or there is miscommunication between the QB and the pass catcher. The latter has happened quite a few times in Cutler's career because of constantly changing coordinators. However, he has done himself no favors with his aggressiveness with the ball.

He has the arm, the brains, the toughness and the work-ethic. But the aggressiveness that he came into the league with and that Shanahan encouraged is not a good fit for the majority of teams and situations. Unless he can change this in the next year or two, it will be his downfall as a QB.

brianmcfarlane
03-31-2015, 10:36 PM
I think this might be the most valid criticism of Cutler's play. Interceptions happen when a QB is too aggressive with the ball or there is miscommunication between the QB and the pass catcher. The latter has happened quite a few times in Cutler's career because of constantly changing coordinators. However, he has done himself no favors with his aggressiveness with the ball.

He has the arm, the brains, the toughness and the work-ethic. But the aggressiveness that he came into the league with and that Shanahan encouraged is not a good fit for the majority of teams and situations. Unless he can change this in the next year or two, it will be his downfall as a QB.

He will need to change it this season or he is probably done. It IS his downfall currently, he needs to change that this season ... Still, he is the best QB Chicago has had in 3-4 decades, Chicago needs to bring a defense now.

AC1
03-31-2015, 10:43 PM
He will need to change it this season or he is probably done. It IS his downfall currently, he needs to change that this season ... Still, he is the best QB Chicago has had in 3-4 decades, Chicago needs to bring a defense now.

I agree about Chicago and this season but I do think if let go by the Bears, he will land as a starter with another team. His current levels of performance and skills are better than many guys that will start next season for the weaker teams. A stint with the next team (and he will probably get only a year at best there) would be his final act IMO.

Garfield
03-31-2015, 10:52 PM
Jay's biggest problems aren't things receivers can fix imo. His numbers have gone up with having better receivers it seems, however receivers imo wouldn't help his tendency to throw INTs, because that's more about a decision you make of where to throw it. No matter how bad your receivers are, you can still decide to throw the ball away if the throw isn't there imo.

Granted, with a defense like theirs a lot of QBs may feel like their team needs to score a lot of points to win, and that could influence them to want to make risky throws because they feel like they would have a slim chance to score enough points to win without them.

However, Jay was turnover prone even when CHI had a good defense it seems. In 2010, I remember when he threw 4 INTs against WAS, and I believe he mad multiple 4 INTs in 2009, when CHI's defense was not necessarily good, but decent most of the time, and imo nowhere near bad enough to reasonably influence a QB to feel like they need to put up 30 points to win most of the time.

Jay's arm is great, and I think maybe he gets a bit big play happy. The 'big play or it's a bad play' mentality imo doesn't work in the NFL. It's like a RB that avoids 3-4 yard gains often searching for the big run to open up. Eventually it may open up, but most of the time it won't, and if you take ineffective runs in search of a big run on most plays, then on most plays your not helping your offense be effective it would seem.

Big play mentality good turn of a phrase.

Jeff George had the same problem. Wanting go for the gusto even when
It was not there (double and triple coverage) and underneath routes were wide open.

Cutler=Jeff George 2.0

Garfield
03-31-2015, 10:54 PM
Didn't Jay ask for a trade? Didn't he want to go to Chicago? He has a large contract. Doesn't that indicate a certain level of success in his career?
Yes
Yes
Yes
NO.

brianmcfarlane
03-31-2015, 10:57 PM
Yes
Yes
Yes
NO.

YES! 10 char !!

Garfield
03-31-2015, 11:01 PM
Cutler's "childishness" is a false media narrative. Even the Chicago writers, who hate his guts, don't question his work ethic and philanthropy. They criticize his play, not his personality.

I don't want to go into the circumstances of the trade again, but let's just say that many people were at fault there and to blame the youngest of the participants in that dispute is somewhat oversimplifying what happened.

Childish Means being an punk.

How many times did he throw his helmet to the ground on the field and more so on the sidelines because he made a poor decision.

How many shots of him on the sidelines ignoring his team mates that came over to console him after a series.

How many TV shots did you see him setting by himself moping because of a bad series.

Sorry but he is a spoiled punk. IMO.

AC1
04-02-2015, 11:17 AM
Childish Means being an punk.

How many times did he throw his helmet to the ground on the field and more so on the sidelines because he made a poor decision.

How many shots of him on the sidelines ignoring his team mates that came over to console him after a series.

How many TV shots did you see him setting by himself moping because of a bad series.

Sorry but he is a spoiled punk. IMO.

We have seen shots of Brady and Rodgers do the exact same things. They are just fed to you as part of a different narrative.

We read about Cutler's blue-collar background when he was drafted by the Broncos. I found this one and the excerpts are particularly interesting -


Toughness came early in Santa Claus. Jack Cutler has been a state trooper for 25 years, but he's been pouring concrete on the side for longer than that. At age 12, when most kids had no idea what work means, Jay was doing manual labor alongside his dad.

"It taught me about hard work and what it took to do a job right," Cutler says.


So Jay's reaction was natural when he was a sophomore at Vandy and saw a concrete crew losing the sidewalk they were pouring. It was firming up before they'd gotten it fully shaped, so Cutler grabbed a trowel and helped them edge it up.

"It only took 15 minutes," he says, modestly.

It's also 15 minutes more than most college quarterbacks would have volunteered to a construction crew in need. But those are the kind of boys they raise in Santa Claus, Ind.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2415795

That doesn't sound like the kind of guy who is a spoiled punk.

Bronco51
04-02-2015, 11:27 AM
Didn't Jay ask for a trade? Didn't he want to go to Chicago? He has a large contract. Doesn't that indicate a certain level of success in his career?

I wouldn't mind 100+ million dollars to prove I'm not successful.

CanDB
04-02-2015, 11:36 AM
Didn't Jay ask for a trade? Didn't he want to go to Chicago? He has a large contract. Doesn't that indicate a certain level of success in his career?

I agree that Jay Cutler has achieved a certain level of success in his career. He did show lots of promise in his early seasons, and has basically maintained an average level of performance since. And in a QB driven league, anyone who meets those criteria will be paid on the high side of the scale....in his case, more to do with what his ceiling might be if all things mesh.

I also attribute his salary to poor negotiations by The Bears. They simply overpaid.

HUMCALC
04-02-2015, 12:06 PM
Success? What success? One playoff win against an under 500 SEA team

CanDB
04-02-2015, 12:31 PM
Success? What success? One playoff win against an under 500 SEA team

I think we're saying that anyone who is a starting QB making a gazillion bucks is a success in some way, shape or form.

Denver Mike
04-02-2015, 03:44 PM
Geez HC.....you are tougher on Jay than even I. I do think he needed more mentoring along the way......whether or not he took the time to listen is unknown to me.

Cutler has had a myriad of fine coaches and well defined offensive tutors to show him the ropes. Sculpt that amazing physical talent into something more..

However he's still what he is now, that's got to speak volumes about the kind of QB he is.

Good but not great, physical but not smart.

fallforward3y+
04-02-2015, 07:15 PM
Success? What success? One playoff win against an under 500 SEA team

That's a team accomplishment. I could go through several arguments that show why I think wins are a bad way to measure a QB, but we could probably make a whole thread about it.

There is plenty to criticize Cutler about, but 'he doesn't win' is probably the worst criticism I've ever heard. In truth, it's hard to believe that people who actually know the game well seemingly buy the ridiculous idea that wins are a good way to measure a QB, it is illogical imo.

HUMCALC
04-02-2015, 07:25 PM
That's a team accomplishment. I could go through several arguments that show why I think wins are a bad way to measure a QB, but we could probably make a whole thread about it.

There is plenty to criticize Cutler about, but 'he doesn't win' is probably the worst criticism I've ever heard. In truth, it's hard to believe that people who actually know the game well seemingly buy the ridiculous idea that wins are a good way to measure a QB, it is illogical imo.

They measure a QB by wins because when the game is on the line, the QB has to make the proper decisions. When the game is on the line Cutler finds a way to lose, rather than win. The only GREAT QB without a SB ring is Dan Mario, and it's because he didn't have much to play with. Cutler has had everything handed to him on a silver platter, and he still flushes everything down the toilet

fallforward3y+
04-02-2015, 07:45 PM
We have seen shots of Brady and Rodgers do the exact same things. They are just fed to you as part of a different narrative.

We read about Cutler's blue-collar background when he was drafted by the Broncos. I found this one and the excerpts are particularly interesting -





http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2415795

That doesn't sound like the kind of guy who is a spoiled punk.

Agreed, I think it's a narrative the media latches onto and overblows. I think the media did the same thing with Cam Newton. I remember when Jay Cutler gave his LT what was seemingly a 'let's go' tap, perhaps to fire him up in a game against GB, and he got criticized...lol.

If people believe Brady or Manning would have gotten the same criticism for doing that, they may be interested in some Ocean Front Property in Kansas I'm selling.

It's why I don't buy much into things like that. Players will do similar things, but some people seemingly just like to interpret it the way they wish, and pick and choose when it's a good thing and when it's a bad thing, likely making presumptions about those players motives when they probably don't have much evidence of their claim.

Some of the things Brady does to fire up his receivers probably wouldn't help me very much, and I don't imagine it's a big help to a lot of rookie receivers either. The way he gets in your face when you make a mistake isn't exactly encouraging. I think if you can expect a receiver to overcome that, you can expect a player to overcome that, you can expect them to play well without your QB firing you up.

Honestly, trying to blame other players not playing well on a QB's personality is kind of lame to me, a player should want to play well regardless imo. If I was a coach and I ever heard a player use the way Cutler acts being discouraging as an excuse for them not playing well, I would probably have them run for a long time, and tell them 'ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU NEED SOMEONE ELSE TO MOTIVATE YOU TO WANT TO PLAY WELL!!!!!!!!!'. It just seems extremely lame to me to blame your poor play on others for not motivating you enough.

If your paying them to be your trainer, then I can see it somewhat(although even with a great motivator, it still depends a lot on you), however these guys are all professionals, and Cutler is not their trainer(as far as I know, lol).

fallforward3y+
04-02-2015, 07:59 PM
They measure a QB by wins because when the game is on the line, the QB has to make the proper decisions. When the game is on the line Cutler finds a way to lose, rather than win. The only GREAT QB without a SB ring is Dan Mario, and it's because he didn't have much to play with. Cutler has had everything handed to him on a silver platter, and he still flushes everything down the toilet

That still doesn't make sense to me. There is more time to the game than when it's on the line, for one. I don't buy that a QB is good just because they play well at the end of the game, if they play poorly for most of it. To me, being a good QB means being consistent, and playing well most of the time. If you play poorly for most of the game, then your team is likely staying in the game DESPITE your play.

Plus, there is more that goes into a team even making plays to win towards the end of the game than the QB's play anyhow, just like throughout the whole game.

I'm not sure why you think Cutler has had everything handed to him either. For most of his career, he's either had a defense that's near the bottom of the league, or not a lot of help from his skill players. Granted, you don't need pro bowl skill players to have a good offense, but CHI hasn't been one of those teams like NE or NO that seems great at finding ways to use their skill players. In fact, Cutler imo should be a good example to you of why it's not a good idea to judge a QB by wins. Cutler's winningest season was in 2010, and came in what IMO was one of his worst years.

Yes, the great QBs usually have rings, but they also have usually had good teams. It's a team game.

MorenoFan27
04-03-2015, 12:45 AM
People who think Jay is a "spoiled" punk make me laugh. He is actually a nice guy who by no means was spoiled when he was growing up. It is just the fact he is not elite that he is "punk". How many times has Brady not shaken players hands after a loss? How many times does he and Manning and Rodgers yell stuff at their teammates? How many times does Brady and Rodgers get ticked and be by themselves on the sideline? The difference here is one group is elite and the other is average. McDaniels came in here saying he wanted to make friends with Jay, showed off a Cutler jersey, then tried to trade him for a 100 times worse quarterback. Screw that I'd try to find a different job too instead of working for a guy I can't trust. Working under him not only seemed horrible, it was horrible and even ticked off captains like Champ Bailey.

Now on to whether we hurt his career. No Cutler obviously has hurt his career, but he is still and always has been a middle of the pack starting quarterback in this league so to say he has had a bad career is wrong.

MorenoFan27
04-03-2015, 12:53 AM
They measure a QB by wins because when the game is on the line, the QB has to make the proper decisions. When the game is on the line Cutler finds a way to lose, rather than win. The only GREAT QB without a SB ring is Dan Mario, and it's because he didn't have much to play with. Cutler has had everything handed to him on a silver platter, and he still flushes everything down the toilet

What has Cutler been handed? A terrible defense when he was here? One of the worse offensive lines for a long time in Chicago? The fact for many years his best wide receiver in Chicago was Devin Hester? Or is it that he has had a different HC or OC for what seems like every other year he has been in the league?

fallforward3y+
04-03-2015, 10:50 PM
People who think Jay is a "spoiled" punk make me laugh. He is actually a nice guy who by no means was spoiled when he was growing up. It is just the fact he is not elite that he is "punk". How many times has Brady not shaken players hands after a loss? How many times does he and Manning and Rodgers yell stuff at their teammates? How many times does Brady and Rodgers get ticked and be by themselves on the sideline? The difference here is one group is elite and the other is average. McDaniels came in here saying he wanted to make friends with Jay, showed off a Cutler jersey, then tried to trade him for a 100 times worse quarterback. Screw that I'd try to find a different job too instead of working for a guy I can't trust. Working under him not only seemed horrible, it was horrible and even ticked off captains like Champ Bailey.

Now on to whether we hurt his career. No Cutler obviously has hurt his career, but he is still and always has been a middle of the pack starting quarterback in this league so to say he has had a bad career is wrong.

At times it seems there are unrealistic expectations of NFL players with how they are expected to deal with things. Sometimes, there are differences between teams and players. Just because a player was on a team you like, doesn't mean that team is a good fit or a good working environment for them. Honestly, I think fans in Denver should get over with Cutler did, though I suppose that's up to them. Some may say Cutler is a crybaby, but it seems like some fans cry(metaphorically)about him being a crybaby, lol.

I think sometimes a fan/fans may be biased against a player, and may make a bigger deal out of something that player does, and somehow not think it's as big of a deal when another player does a similar thing.

I think that may happen to Cutler often. Eli Manning didn't go to the team that drafted him, however I bet to many on here somehow that isn't as bad as Cutler wanting to be traded. Other QBs may be by themselves on the sideline too, however I suppose it isn't as bad when they do it as it is when Cutler does it in the eyes of some.

CanDB
04-04-2015, 08:55 AM
At times it seems there are unrealistic expectations of NFL players with how they are expected to deal with things. Sometimes, there are differences between teams and players. Just because a player was on a team you like, doesn't mean that team is a good fit or a good working environment for them. Honestly, I think fans in Denver should get over with Cutler did, though I suppose that's up to them. Some may say Cutler is a crybaby, but it seems like some fans cry(metaphorically)about him being a crybaby, lol.

I think sometimes a fan/fans may be biased against a player, and may make a bigger deal out of something that player does, and somehow not think it's as big of a deal when another player does a similar thing.

I think that may happen to Cutler often. Eli Manning didn't go to the team that drafted him, however I bet to many on here somehow that isn't as bad as Cutler wanting to be traded. Other QBs may be by themselves on the sideline too, however I suppose it isn't as bad when they do it as it is when Cutler does it in the eyes of some.

However, no matter how much people take his side, Jay has accumulated a large group of dissenters, one way or another, and that seems to be a real fact behind all of this. Call it perception, call it inability to lead, call it a general annoying way to behave, call it a messy split from Denver, call it "poor Cutler" has no weapons, call it an inability to avoid throwing into tight windows or long when other players are open, call it a lack of judgement when talking about certain things, like arm strength (vs Elway's), call it a guy who just doesn't endear himself to other players, including retired ones, call it a guy who just doesn't seem too happy with his fortune.......Jay Cutler has definitely not helped his own chances of becoming a better player, and a without doubt, a more likable one.

samparnell
04-04-2015, 09:47 AM
However, no matter how much people take his side, Jay has accumulated a large group of dissenters, one way or another, and that seems to be a real fact behind all of this. Call it perception, call it inability to lead, call it a general annoying way to behave, call it a messy split from Denver, call it "poor Cutler" has no weapons, call it an inability to avoid throwing into tight windows or long when other players are open, call it a lack of judgement when talking about certain things, like arm strength (vs Elway's), call it a guy who just doesn't endear himself to other players, including retired ones, call it a guy who just doesn't seem too happy with his fortune.......Jay Cutler has definitely not helped his own chances of becoming a better player, and a without doubt, a more likable one.

When I'm in my car between 1 and 5 PM, I listen to "Movin' the Chains" on NFLR with Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan.

Last season they devoted a lot of time to Jay Cutler. Jim Miller likes Jay Cutler's talent, but says his biggest problem is the turnovers (1.3 per game). There are fixes to that. One set of fixes for the picks, and another for the fumbles.

The Bears can't trade him because of his contract. Things could be worse at the QB position for Chicago. With the proper offense and calls, Jay can improve. It's hard to imagine him worse.

Adam Gase will need to design and call a balanced offense IMO. He will need to improve as well IMO. Fortunately he has Dave Magazu to help him with the rushing attack.

fallforward3y+
04-05-2015, 01:11 PM
However, no matter how much people take his side, Jay has accumulated a large group of dissenters, one way or another, and that seems to be a real fact behind all of this. Call it perception, call it inability to lead, call it a general annoying way to behave, call it a messy split from Denver, call it "poor Cutler" has no weapons, call it an inability to avoid throwing into tight windows or long when other players are open, call it a lack of judgement when talking about certain things, like arm strength (vs Elway's), call it a guy who just doesn't endear himself to other players, including retired ones, call it a guy who just doesn't seem too happy with his fortune.......Jay Cutler has definitely not helped his own chances of becoming a better player, and a without doubt, a more likable one.

I guess a lot of that doesn't bother me too much. His tendency to throw into tight windows or long when players are open in other more high percentage situations is something I don't like about him as a player, and I wouldn't want him as my teams' QB largely for that reason.

It's hard for me to make judgments about how Cutler is as a leader, and I'm not too hung up on the idea that the QB has to be the teams' leader. He may not be much of a 'people person' in certain senses, however that is ok with me.

I guess we disagree about Cutler and his comments about his arm vs Elway's. It doesn't seem as though he meant to take any shots at Elway, and I have some respect for him recognizing/saying it. In truth, it's a bit of a 'pet peeve' of mine the way greats/legends get put on a pedastal in certain ways, so I guess I respect him to some degree for 'knowing better' in a sense. I bet many players could find something in the game they do better than a legend, or elite player at their position.

It is important to me though, to not make it mean more than it does. In Cutler's case particularly, a concern for me would also be that he may think arm strength has more to do with being an effective QB than it does. Given his playing style, that may actually be the case with him. That's more of the concern I would have with a player who says something like that though, than them saying they do something better than a legend.

HUMCALC
04-05-2015, 01:18 PM
People who think Jay is a "spoiled" punk make me laugh. He is actually a nice guy who by no means was spoiled when he was growing up. It is just the fact he is not elite that he is "punk". How many times has Brady not shaken players hands after a loss? How many times does he and Manning and Rodgers yell stuff at their teammates? How many times does Brady and Rodgers get ticked and be by themselves on the sideline? The difference here is one group is elite and the other is average. McDaniels came in here saying he wanted to make friends with Jay, showed off a Cutler jersey, then tried to trade him for a 100 times worse quarterback. Screw that I'd try to find a different job too instead of working for a guy I can't trust. Working under him not only seemed horrible, it was horrible and even ticked off captains like Champ Bailey.

Now on to whether we hurt his career. No Cutler obviously has hurt his career, but he is still and always has been a middle of the pack starting quarterback in this league so to say he has had a bad career is wrong.

He's a guy who can't get along with teammates and coaches. That's why he's a punk. He's been handled: Marshall, Jeffrey, Bennett, Forte, Bush, Sheffler, Royal, Hester, etc. & can't make the playoffs. I find it hysterical that just the other day CHI had a fundraiser, and no one would bid on his autograph. Not even $5

CanDB
04-05-2015, 03:29 PM
I guess a lot of that doesn't bother me too much. His tendency to throw into tight windows or long when players are open in other more high percentage situations is something I don't like about him as a player, and I wouldn't want him as my teams' QB largely for that reason.

It's hard for me to make judgments about how Cutler is as a leader, and I'm not too hung up on the idea that the QB has to be the teams' leader. He may not be much of a 'people person' in certain senses, however that is ok with me.

I guess we disagree about Cutler and his comments about his arm vs Elway's. It doesn't seem as though he meant to take any shots at Elway, and I have some respect for him recognizing/saying it. In truth, it's a bit of a 'pet peeve' of mine the way greats/legends get put on a pedastal in certain ways, so I guess I respect him to some degree for 'knowing better' in a sense. I bet many players could find something in the game they do better than a legend, or elite player at their position.

It is important to me though, to not make it mean more than it does. In Cutler's case particularly, a concern for me would also be that he may think arm strength has more to do with being an effective QB than it does. Given his playing style, that may actually be the case with him. That's more of the concern I would have with a player who says something like that though, than them saying they do something better than a legend.

I do disagree with you. Jay Cutler has a persona that is clearly not of one of the classier guys in the league. When he made that comment, he could have easily bi-passed it, like most regular dudes, but it's almost like he was too stupid to let it pass. No, I do not believe we have to put the old guys on pedestals. But I was raised to be respectful, and given the situation, he could have very easily let it go. But his response was what it was, kind of what you'd expect from a punk. I may have issues with Brady for example, but he would never have made that statement. Certainly Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and most of the other good QBs would have let it go, even if they knew they had strong arms.

samparnell
04-05-2015, 04:19 PM
I do disagree with you. Jay Cutler has a persona that is clearly not of one of the classier guys in the league. When he made that comment, he could have easily bi-passed it, like most regular dudes, but it's almost like he was too stupid to let it pass. No, I do not believe we have to put the old guys on pedestals. But I was raised to be respectful, and given the situation, he could have very easily let it go. But his response was what it was, kind of what you'd expect from a punk. I may have issues with Brady for example, but he would never have made that statement. Certainly Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and most of the other good QBs would have let it go, even if they knew they had strong arms.

I didn't understand why, as a Bronco, Jay Cutler would say his arm strength was greater than John Elway's.

John Elway could throw a fifteen yard out from the opposite sideline on a frozen rope so hard it would bruise his receivers. Elway's arm strength is legendary from his HS and Stanford days.

Trying to trump a legend with talk was immature and pointless. IMO it would have been better to prove it on the field and not say anything about it.

But, that's Jay. :D

CanDB
04-05-2015, 04:45 PM
I didn't understand why, as a Bronco, Jay Cutler would say his arm strength was greater than John Elway's.

John Elway could throw a fifteen yard out from the opposite sideline on a frozen rope so hard it would bruise his receivers. Elway's arm strength is legendary from his HS and Stanford days.

Trying to trump a legend with talk was immature and pointless. IMO it would have been better to prove it on the field and not say anything about it.

But, that's Jay. :D

Totally!!!

fallforward3y+
04-05-2015, 05:40 PM
I do disagree with you. Jay Cutler has a persona that is clearly not of one of the classier guys in the league. When he made that comment, he could have easily bi-passed it, like most regular dudes, but it's almost like he was too stupid to let it pass. No, I do not believe we have to put the old guys on pedestals. But I was raised to be respectful, and given the situation, he could have very easily let it go. But his response was what it was, kind of what you'd expect from a punk. I may have issues with Brady for example, but he would never have made that statement. Certainly Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and most of the other good QBs would have let it go, even if they knew they had strong arms.

I guess it comes down to a disagreement, I don't think it was disrespectful. I guess I don't think players should be expected to hide what they think on things like that. It seems as though it was his honest assessment of his abilities. If guys are willing to be a little more honest, it makes for better interviews. When a guy only gives answers that seem 'cliche' to me, it seems as if they may as well not even have the interview. Often times they don't even seem to actually answer the question. To me, it would be better if they'd talk about a hair care product like the old Troy Polamalu commercials if they aren't going to give much insight, at least that would be funny lol.

I will say though, some of the 'smack talkers' get on my nerves, mostly the types who focus their smack talk on saying their opponent sucks. It doesn't make sense to me to get an ego boost because you say your opponent sucks, it kind of seems like a 'no win' situation in certain ways. If you out do them, then well....according to you you beat someone who sucks. If you say everyone you beat sucks, then it seems that according to you you've never beaten anyone who is good, which doesn't seem like much to brag about. If they actually out do you, then you embarrass yourself imo by getting beat by someone who you said sucked. With some guys, it seems like they'd say an opponent sucks regardless of how the match up between them is actually going, lol.

If I beat someone, I would rather be able to say that I beat someone good.

Garfield
04-05-2015, 06:07 PM
I didn't understand why, as a Bronco, Jay Cutler would say his arm strength was greater than John Elway's.

John Elway could throw a fifteen yard out from the opposite sideline on a frozen rope so hard it would bruise his receivers. Elway's arm strength is legendary from his HS and Stanford days.

Trying to trump a legend with talk was immature and pointless. IMO it would have been better to prove it on the field and not say anything about it.

But, that's Jay. :D

Was just trying to say much the same thing but apparently my token had expired.

His immaturity just got worse as his denver days grew.

I also had to laugh about no one bidding on his autograph that is so telling.

But I'd bet it would be a top seller here in Denver.

Garfield
04-05-2015, 06:08 PM
Have never heard anyone talk about the cutler CROSS.

HUMCALC
04-05-2015, 06:32 PM
When I'm in my car between 1 and 5 PM, I listen to "Movin' the Chains" on NFLR with Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan.

Last season they devoted a lot of time to Jay Cutler. Jim Miller likes Jay Cutler's talent, but says his biggest problem is the turnovers (1.3 per game). There are fixes to that. One set of fixes for the picks, and another for the fumbles.

The Bears can't trade him because of his contract. Things could be worse at the QB position for Chicago. With the proper offense and calls, Jay can improve. It's hard to imagine him worse.

Adam Gase will need to design and call a balanced offense IMO. He will need to improve as well IMO. Fortunately he has Dave Magazu to help him with the rushing attack.

Jay Cutler is 31 years old, with 9 seasons of experience behind him. If he hasn't learned how to minimize his turnovers by now, he never will. You do realize that his last play-caller tried to have a balanced offense, but Cutler kept audibling out of the run plays?

samparnell
04-05-2015, 06:49 PM
Have never heard anyone talk about the cutler CROSS.

Too right! :D

It took Elway a while to learn how to put touch on short passes especially to RBs on flare/flat routes. He used to almost knock them down. Sometimes the ball would bounce straight up. It was like his arm had two settings: extra hard; and armor piercing. :eek:

Garfield
04-05-2015, 08:49 PM
Too right! :D

It took Elway a while to learn how to put touch on short passes especially to RBs on flare/flat routes. He used to almost knock them down. Sometimes the ball would bounce straight up. It was like his arm had two settings: extra hard; and armor piercing. :eek:

Armor piercing AYE.

To say the least cutlers comment really was immature and cocky at a time he needed all the humility he could ararange. Coming into the pros after his last winning season was high school.

Canmore
04-05-2015, 09:05 PM
Armor piercing AYE.

To say the least cutlers comment really was immature and cocky at a time he needed all the humility he could ararange. Coming into the pros after his last winning season was high school.

Armor piercing. He made throws routinely that everyone else marveled at. Cutler has an arm, but it is not Elway's.

Garfield
04-05-2015, 10:55 PM
Armor piercing. He made throws routinely that everyone else marveled at. Cutler has an arm, but it is not Elway's.

Wonder if he regrets saying it.

AC1
04-06-2015, 04:40 PM
Wonder if he regrets saying it.

Cutler doesn't come across as the type of person who regrets saying things just because a bunch of fans got their feelings hurt. He speaks his mind and doesn't seem to care how politically correct the statement is. He could be more diplomatic and be much more popular, but being liked doesn't seem to be all that important to him.

The funny thing is that Elway himself had the most balanced take on the comments. He said something about the part of Elway's career that someone of Cutler's age would have watched and how his arm then wasn't as strong as it was earlier. Elway was sufficiently unbothered with those statements to say in 2011 that he would not have traded Cutler had he been in charge.

There is never going to be an objective discussion about Cutler among Denver fans. For a player considered to be terrible by so many Denver fans, there are quite a few willing to go out of their way to badmouth him. Many players have left teams that drafted them. Never has a player's exit inspired so much vitriol.

For me, he is the guy that played the 2007 season while losing 30 pounds because of undiagnosed diabetes. It took so long to diagnose him because he never complained. The way he has avoided any mention of his condition while talking about his play, and the work he has done to help kids affected by type 1 diabetes, is why he will always be one of the good guys in my book.

AC1
04-06-2015, 04:49 PM
At times it seems there are unrealistic expectations of NFL players with how they are expected to deal with things. Sometimes, there are differences between teams and players. Just because a player was on a team you like, doesn't mean that team is a good fit or a good working environment for them. Honestly, I think fans in Denver should get over with Cutler did, though I suppose that's up to them. Some may say Cutler is a crybaby, but it seems like some fans cry(metaphorically)about him being a crybaby, lol.

I think sometimes a fan/fans may be biased against a player, and may make a bigger deal out of something that player does, and somehow not think it's as big of a deal when another player does a similar thing.

I think that may happen to Cutler often. Eli Manning didn't go to the team that drafted him, however I bet to many on here somehow that isn't as bad as Cutler wanting to be traded. Other QBs may be by themselves on the sideline too, however I suppose it isn't as bad when they do it as it is when Cutler does it in the eyes of some.

Well said. There is definitely a lack of perspective when it comes to the narrative about Cutler. It's one thing to call someone a bad player, but Cutler's detractors feel compelled to tarnish his character and personality. It all seems very over-the-top and unnecessary.

fallforward3y+
04-06-2015, 05:17 PM
He's a guy who can't get along with teammates and coaches. That's why he's a punk. He's been handled: Marshall, Jeffrey, Bennett, Forte, Bush, Sheffler, Royal, Hester, etc. & can't make the playoffs. I find it hysterical that just the other day CHI had a fundraiser, and no one would bid on his autograph. Not even $5

I bought an Alge Crumpler autographed picture on E-bay for $4.99 when I was in 7th grade, at a time when he was one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL IMO, and at Ravens training camp I got a Willis McGahee autograph for free in 2008, because he came over and signed it, I only had to wait after training camp was over. I imagine that has something to do with why people wouldn't bid very high on it.

As for what you said about the weapons...it's called defense. I don't get why some fans list out weapons and say 'he can't make the playoffs despite that' acting like defense isn't a factor.

Rodgers missed the playoffs in 2008
Brees missed the playoffs in 2007,2008,2012 and 2014.

With a defense as bad as the Bears' is, making the playoffs is difficult.

I haven't heard a whole lot about him not getting a long with his teammates or coaches either.

fallforward3y+
04-06-2015, 06:06 PM
Cutler doesn't come across as the type of person who regrets saying things just because a bunch of fans got their feelings hurt. He speaks his mind and doesn't seem to care how politically correct the statement is. He could be more diplomatic and be much more popular, but being liked doesn't seem to be all that important to him.

The funny thing is that Elway himself had the most balanced take on the comments. He said something about the part of Elway's career that someone of Cutler's age would have watched and how his arm then wasn't as strong as it was earlier. Elway was sufficiently unbothered with those statements to say in 2011 that he would not have traded Cutler had he been in charge.

There is never going to be an objective discussion about Cutler among Denver fans. For a player considered to be terrible by so many Denver fans, there are quite a few willing to go out of their way to badmouth him. Many players have left teams that drafted them. Never has a player's exit inspired so much vitriol.

For me, he is the guy that played the 2007 season while losing 30 pounds because of undiagnosed diabetes. It took so long to diagnose him because he never complained. The way he has avoided any mention of his condition while talking about his play, and the work he has done to help kids affected by type 1 diabetes, is why he will always be one of the good guys in my book.

I doubt he regrets it very much, as imo he has shown he has a great arm. Is it better than Elway's? Perhaps not, however it probably is at least close. Since he limited his statement to talking about his arm, I wouldn't say he should feel embarrassed about how it turned out. I do agree that he probably didn't regret upsetting fans by saying it. I don't mind someone who gives an honest opinion about things like that, unless it seems like they're trying to be jerk about it when they do it.

I do think Cutler playing through his 30 pound weight loss is a sign of him having a strong desire to play, and a strong work ethic. I think his struggles as a player have more to do with him having a difficult time going away from a style of play that ends up hindering his effectiveness, as opposed to him not having a good work ethic.

brianmcfarlane
04-06-2015, 08:17 PM
I bought an Alge Crumpler autographed picture on E-bay for $4.99 when I was in 7th grade, at a time when he was one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL IMO, and at Ravens training camp I got a Willis McGahee autograph for free in 2008, because he came over and signed it, I only had to wait after training camp was over. I imagine that has something to do with why people wouldn't bid very high on it.

As for what you said about the weapons...it's called defense. I don't get why some fans list out weapons and say 'he can't make the playoffs despite that' acting like defense isn't a factor.

Rodgers missed the playoffs in 2008
Brees missed the playoffs in 2007,2008,2012 and 2014.

With a defense as bad as the Bears' is, making the playoffs is difficult.

I haven't heard a whole lot about him not getting a long with his teammates or coaches either.

The Rest Of The Story is that the auction was at a pet adoption charity auction for the Anti-Cruelty Society, his autograph was on a white football. The ball was purchased later for $100 by somebody getting it for their son's birthday; it is said... a member of the Society described the bidders as not much of "a football crowd." Almost all the items bid on were theater tickets or spa treatments.

brianmcfarlane
04-06-2015, 08:21 PM
Actually at the time Cutler said that (10/10/2008) his arm was stronger than Elway's at the time... even Elway admitted that...
Elway on Cutler’s arm vs. those of some NFL greats: “Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre—they all could get outside and make big plays. Cutler is either more athletic or has better arm strength than each of them. His arm is pretty special, might even be as good as mine when I was his age. Certainly, it’s better than mine was at the end.”:P

Hadez
04-22-2015, 06:43 AM
I agree Cutler hurt his career. As far as playing too soon... Rodgers needed time to work on some bad mechanics. Cutler's issue is decision making and imo that is better improved through playing time and solid coaching.

Personally I think Shanahan could have been a great teacher to Cutler. I do not know enough about their relationship to know if Cutler would have been a more receptive learner under Shanahan but imo he had promise and a good QB coach like Shanahan or McCarthy could have done wonders in Cutlers growth.

Also imo McD was a good teacher at what Cutler needs to learn most imo. Game managing decisions that do not lead to turnovers. Had Cutler not gone all baby headed and showed some balls in his willingness to compete for a QB job in Denver instead of forcing a trade I really think there was a possibility that McD could have helped Cutler over the hump. As much as I hated to see Shanahan go I was very excited to see these two working together for about a week or two.

I knew he would fail going to Chicago would make such weak attempts to improve the OL. Every QB in the NFL will make bad decisions without a good OL (even PM as we have seen). Add in some serious lack of effort to give him a OL with imo no real good QB coaching...then add in his weak minded he is in the first place...

If I was running Chicago I would have spent a good amount of money on improving the OL not just for Cutler but also for Forte. Would have done this before signing

Not sure what Cutler's people were thinking but to think going from McD to Chicago was good for his career was not a very prudent choice. There are some teams a QB should not want to play for every season.

Conner13
04-22-2015, 11:20 AM
Cutler's attitude is probably his biggest downfall. I'm not talking about the speculation that he doesn't get along with teammates or that he's not extroverted enough for some people. I'm talking about his arrogance on the field. It's his arrogance that causes a lot of his INTs. There was a game a few years back where he threw four picks to one guy -- DeAngelo Hall.

After the game, Cutler basically said he didn't regret trying to throw to Hall's side of the field and would do it again. It's that overconfidence that's caused him to be an underachiever. I don't think he'll ever be any different. Can you win some games with him? Sure. Put a team around him and you'll win a few. You can say that about a lot of guys, though. But he's always going to turn the ball over because that's his nature.

fallforward3y+
04-22-2015, 11:11 PM
Cutler's attitude is probably his biggest downfall. I'm not talking about the speculation that he doesn't get along with teammates or that he's not extroverted enough for some people. I'm talking about his arrogance on the field. It's his arrogance that causes a lot of his INTs. There was a game a few years back where he threw four picks to one guy -- DeAngelo Hall.

After the game, Cutler basically said he didn't regret trying to throw to Hall's side of the field and would do it again. It's that overconfidence that's caused him to be an underachiever. I don't think he'll ever be any different. Can you win some games with him? Sure. Put a team around him and you'll win a few. You can say that about a lot of guys, though. But he's always going to turn the ball over because that's his nature.

EXCELLENT analysis, that is a personality/attitude related thing that I do think may have hurt his career. I suppose I can see a mentality of not regretting it or not wanting to go back and change things(after all, time travel probably wouldn't be a good thing, lol)however to act as if you'll do the same thing next time and not learning from throwing 4 INTs is a problem imo. He may be cocky, and that may influence the reason why he often makes risky throws, and goes for a longer completion when a shorter, but effective one is there and is easier to complete.

I think if they react to it a certain way, cockiness can hurt players a lot, even very skilled players. There are certain things in the game, often technique related or perhaps that are rooted in it being a league full of guys who are likely pretty good that even elite players likely can't overcome. If a player starts thinking they are so good they don't need to worry about these things, it likely will hurt them.

If a QB is often trying to fit the ball into tight windows, chances are the passing game won't be very productive. In Cutler's case, it's a 'style problem' one of those instances where a style of play is not very well fit for the league, because even if you are very skilled at it, it still likely won't be effective. If you make a lot of risky and difficult throws, you will likely have a low completion percentage, they are difficult to complete consistently even if you have great accuracy. On top of that, you will likely throw a lot of interceptions so that means a lot of times that every pass you did complete on a drive doesn't help in scoring points. This may be an instance of cockiness causing a person to play a style that isn't likely to be effective in the league.

Chitown
04-23-2015, 09:16 AM
I don't think Denver hurt Cutler's career. I think the Bears organization killed it. They traded for a quarterback but did nothing else for the offense. They had a great defense at the time and kept building it while ignoring wide receivers and offensive line. I believe the beatings that Cutler took his first two years messed him up physically and mentally.

By the time the Bears realized you have to protect the quarterback and give him weapons the defense fell completely apart to where it set records for being the worst defense in Bears history. I'm sure Cutler will be pushed out of Chicago soon and we will see another 20 years of crap quarterbacks.

The Deangelo Hall game. The Redskins came into that game with the leagues worst defense. The Bears lost 5 yards after the first seven plays. Cutler was sacked four times in the game and his starting receivers were Johnny Knox, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett. None of those guys should be higher than a 3rd receiver on any NFL team. Combine that with the worst offensive line in the NFL and you have a chance to make Deangelo Hall look like Champ Bailey or Deion Sanders.

No," he said. "Not at all. I've played against him before. There's no reason to shy away from him. I mean that's hard for me to say throwing four picks to the guy, but I still think if we had to play him tomorrow, I'd go after him every time."

What would you like your starting quarterback to say, that he is afraid of Deangelo Hall? Or throw his o-line and receivers under the bus?

Washington (4-3), meanwhile, equaled its win total from last season and joined a growing line of teams that has pounded Cutler. He has been sacked 19 times in his last three games, and when he wasn't on his back, he kept finding Hall.

Cutler had the choice of taking a sack or throwing to one of his crappy receivers hoping they make a play. He probably torched Deangelo Hall with Brandon Marshall in his first or second year so he knows he can do it.

link to the game (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=301024003)

CanDB
04-23-2015, 11:05 AM
I don't think Denver hurt Cutler's career. I think the Bears organization killed it. They traded for a quarterback but did nothing else for the offense. They had a great defense at the time and kept building it while ignoring wide receivers and offensive line. I believe the beatings that Cutler took his first two years messed him up physically and mentally.

By the time the Bears realized you have to protect the quarterback and give him weapons the defense fell completely apart to where it set records for being the worst defense in Bears history. I'm sure Cutler will be pushed out of Chicago soon and we will see another 20 years of crap quarterbacks.

The Deangelo Hall game. The Redskins came into that game with the leagues worst defense. The Bears lost 5 yards after the first seven plays. Cutler was sacked four times in the game and his starting receivers were Johnny Knox, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett. None of those guys should be higher than a 3rd receiver on any NFL team. Combine that with the worst offensive line in the NFL and you have a chance to make Deangelo Hall look like Champ Bailey or Deion Sanders.

No," he said. "Not at all. I've played against him before. There's no reason to shy away from him. I mean that's hard for me to say throwing four picks to the guy, but I still think if we had to play him tomorrow, I'd go after him every time."

What would you like your starting quarterback to say, that he is afraid of Deangelo Hall? Or throw his o-line and receivers under the bus?

Washington (4-3), meanwhile, equaled its win total from last season and joined a growing line of teams that has pounded Cutler. He has been sacked 19 times in his last three games, and when he wasn't on his back, he kept finding Hall.

Cutler had the choice of taking a sack or throwing to one of his crappy receivers hoping they make a play. He probably torched Deangelo Hall with Brandon Marshall in his first or second year so he knows he can do it.

link to the game (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=301024003)

You may be right about his lack of weapons/protection in the early years, but he had no excuses last season. Sure, his D sucked, but his rating hardly improved from his average, and this with a lot of O talent around him.

To this many will say.....he just doesn't get it.

Chitown
04-23-2015, 12:32 PM
Jay has no excuses for last year? Ok. Maybe you don't know about the dysfunction with the coaching staff and the locker room last year. There was no trust in the locker room.

Bears had one pro bowler in 2014. Kyle Long.

I honestly don't care about his rating.

The Bears lost to New England 53-21 last year and Cutler's rating was 108.6. Whoopty doo.

CanDB
04-23-2015, 12:41 PM
Jay has no excuses for last year? Ok. Maybe you don't know about the dysfunction with the coaching staff and the locker room last year. There was no trust in the locker room.

Bears had one pro bowler in 2014. Kyle Long.

I honestly don't care about his rating.

The Bears lost to New England 53-21 last year and Cutler's rating was 108.6. Whoopty doo.

He had all the weapons he needed. All the rest is up to him to manage as a pro. That stuff seems to follow him.

Chitown
04-23-2015, 12:51 PM
He had all the weapons he needed. All the rest is up to him to manage as a pro. That stuff seems to follow him.

He had all the weapons he needed to do what? He has handled his time in Chicago probably better than any other quarterback in the NFL could.

And what seems to follow him? A bad organization that he is stuck at?

I should say a poorly ran organization. Hopefully that changes.

HUMCALC
04-23-2015, 02:48 PM
He had all the weapons he needed to do what? He has handled his time in Chicago probably better than any other quarterback in the NFL could.

And what seems to follow him? A bad organization that he is stuck at?

I should say a poorly ran organization. Hopefully that changes.

He had as many weapons on offense as any QB last year, and more than both QBs in the Super Bowl. Forte is a top 5 RB, Marshall and Jeffrey are as good a WR duo as there is in the NFL, Bennett is a top 5-10 TE, and the OL was enough for any QB to succeed

CanDB
04-23-2015, 05:55 PM
He had as many weapons on offense as any QB last year, and more than both QBs in the Super Bowl. Forte is a top 5 RB, Marshall and Jeffrey are as good a WR duo as there is in the NFL, Bennett is a top 5-10 TE, and the OL was enough for any QB to succeed

You know it HC! I guess he needed Megatron, Murray, and the all pro Oline to help him over the hump.

AC1
04-30-2015, 03:09 AM
He had as many weapons on offense as any QB last year, and more than both QBs in the Super Bowl. Forte is a top 5 RB, Marshall and Jeffrey are as good a WR duo as there is in the NFL, Bennett is a top 5-10 TE, and the OL was enough for any QB to succeed

Do you have a comprehension disability? Chitown was talking about the dysfunction in the organization. You respond by talking about his "weapons"? Even your weapons argument is weak - Marshall just got traded for a 5th round pick. Bennett is on the trading block. Do you see guys like Gronk, Jordy Nelson, etc. going for a 5th rounder?

I live in Chicago and watched a lot of Bears games last season. Neither Jeffrey nor Marshall were able to get any separation consistently. Whatever offense the Bears generated was because of Forte and because of Cutler's ability to fit throws in tight-windows (because those were the only windows there were). Compare that with an offense like Green Bay's where the coach is able to scheme his receivers open.

Trestman's offenses have never had success in year 2 and his most recent stint was no different. Matt Forte came out and said that opposing defenses seemed to know what plays were coming.

AC1
04-30-2015, 03:11 AM
You know it HC! I guess he needed Megatron, Murray, and the all pro Oline to help him over the hump.

He went to the NFC Championship Game with Johnny Knox, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett as his WRs. By comparison, Megatron and Murray have never gotten that far in the playoffs, nor have the QBs that play with them. Staffod and Romo don't get half the criticism Cutler gets.

But then again this is a Denver Broncos board, a fanbase that hasn't gotten over a trade that happened 5 years ago. Even after Josh Mcdaniels has proven to be an ethically-challenged egomaniac who is useless outside of New England.

HUMCALC
04-30-2015, 04:29 PM
He went to the NFC Championship Game with Johnny Knox, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett as his WRs. By comparison, Megatron and Murray have never gotten that far in the playoffs, nor have the QBs that play with them. Staffod and Romo don't get half the criticism Cutler gets.

But then again this is a Denver Broncos board, a fanbase that hasn't gotten over a trade that happened 5 years ago. Even after Josh Mcdaniels has proven to be an ethically-challenged egomaniac who is useless outside of New England.

He only went to the NFC Championship Game because he beat an unworthy 7-9 SEA team. As a CHI resident, I can tell you that EVERYONE is livid that Marshall went for only a 5th rounder. They could have gotten more value for him than that

broncoslover115
05-01-2015, 05:48 AM
He only went to the NFC Championship Game because he beat an unworthy 7-9 SEA team. As a CHI resident, I can tell you that EVERYONE is livid that Marshall went for only a 5th rounder. They could have gotten more value for him than that

The Bears fans seemed excited that they got Kevin White last night. That might ease their pain of losing Marshall.

fallforward3y+
05-02-2015, 01:24 AM
Since I've thought about this recently, I think I'll mention that among the starting NFL QBs, Cutler may be the one I would least like throwing me the ball if I were an NFL WR.

I like short passes, and I would probably get annoyed by him throwing it to somebody in double coverage if I'm open for a solid gain.

bears6385
05-10-2015, 07:16 PM
He went to the NFC Championship Game with Johnny Knox, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett as his WRs. By comparison, Megatron and Murray have never gotten that far in the playoffs, nor have the QBs that play with them. Staffod and Romo don't get half the criticism Cutler gets.

But then again this is a Denver Broncos board, a fanbase that hasn't gotten over a trade that happened 5 years ago. Even after Josh Mcdaniels has proven to be an ethically-challenged egomaniac who is useless outside of New England.It is interesting that you bring up Cutler in 2010 because I believe that 2010 and 2011 is the template for Cutler to be a successful NFL quarterback. Quality OC, strong running game, balanced passing attack, and a very good defense that lets you to play a field position game. Take the pressure off Jay to play that perfect game, because lets face it he has never been an elite quarterback that can carry a team such as Brady or Manning can.

Weapons you say.......In 2010 and '11 with a horrible OL, below average WR's, Matt Forte and a very strong D Cutler's numbers were actually better than 2013 and '14 with a much better OL, Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett, but the worst defense in Bears history. Does defense matter.......unless you are Brady or Manning in their prime, it sure does. Overall Jay's weapons in 2015 are the most impressive they have ever been here in Chicago, Forte, Jeffery, White, Royal, and Bennett. Can Cutler and the Bears improve.......Only if Fangio's 3-4 defense is a hit in it's first year.

CanDB
05-11-2015, 07:18 AM
It is interesting that you bring up Cutler in 2010 because I believe that 2010 and 2011 is the template for Cutler to be a successful NFL quarterback. Quality OC, strong running game, balanced passing attack, and a very good defense that lets you to play a field position game. Take the pressure off Jay to play that perfect game, because lets face it he has never been an elite quarterback that can carry a team such as Brady or Manning can.

Weapons you say.......In 2010 and '11 with a horrible OL, below average WR's, Matt Forte and a very strong D Cutler's numbers were actually better than 2013 and '14 with a much better OL, Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett, but the worst defense in Bears history. Does defense matter.......unless you are Brady or Manning in their prime, it sure does. Overall Jay's weapons in 2015 are the most impressive they have ever been here in Chicago, Forte, Jeffery, White, Royal, and Bennett. Can Cutler and the Bears improve.......Only if Fangio's 3-4 defense is a hit in it's first year.

I respect your opinion, but you are doing what almost every Bear fan does when they come here to defend Jay.....you already have an excuse for him. Why not just admit that he has a lot of weapons, like he did last season, and it's on him, as the on the field leader, to make the most of his O. Sure, D is important, but we are talking about Jay Cutler, the QB, with a lot of weapons and a decent Oline. It's his job to generate yards and points.

It always seems like there's an excuse for this guy. In my books, when you have a contract of his nature, and you have some weapons, you deliver when the ball is in your hands.

When you think of it, if you had a QB making "reasonable" money (more aligned to their skill), you could add another quality defender.

Chitown
05-11-2015, 11:52 AM
There is just as many excuses for Peyton Manning every year and he is one of the best ever. In 2013 the Bears had the number 2 scoring offense in the league and number 8 in yards. Number 5 in passing yards.

The Bears were a bad team last year period. How good do you think the Bears would have been with Peyton under center last year? The Broncos had the most loaded team on offense and defense last year and still went one and done.

The Bears had some good players but they were a terrible team. Seahawks last year and the Patriots this year did not have the best weapons in the league. Not by a long shot. They did have the best teams though.

So Cutler is getting paid what top quarterbacks get paid because that is how the last regime viewed him. The Broncos could release Manning and sign a couple of quality defenders and go with Brock. The team is choosing Manning. If Manning completely falls apart this year would you blame him or Elway?

The Bears traded for Cutler, gave him no weapons or protection and brought in new offenses for him to learn every year. They finally got some offensive talent around him but assemble the worst defense in Bears history. (Bears were number 2 scoring offense in 2013) And then add in that the Bears had maybe the most inept coaching staffs in the history of the NFL last year. The team was dysfunctional last year and it had nothing to do with Cutler.

No one is saying that Cutler is the best qb in the league or even that he isn't overpaid. Just that there are worse options than him. That is the problem with all the Cutler haters. They just say get rid of him but can't name a better replacement. If there is an upgrade at quarterback out there for Chicago I'm all for it. I'd get rid of Cutler in a heartbeat for a better qb.

CanDB
05-11-2015, 12:34 PM
There is just as many excuses for Peyton Manning every year and he is one of the best ever. In 2013 the Bears had the number 2 scoring offense in the league and number 8 in yards. Number 5 in passing yards.

The Bears were a bad team last year period. How good do you think the Bears would have been with Peyton under center last year? The Broncos had the most loaded team on offense and defense last year and still went one and done.

The Bears had some good players but they were a terrible team. Seahawks last year and the Patriots this year did not have the best weapons in the league. Not by a long shot. They did have the best teams though.

So Cutler is getting paid what top quarterbacks get paid because that is how the last regime viewed him. The Broncos could release Manning and sign a couple of quality defenders and go with Brock. The team is choosing Manning. If Manning completely falls apart this year would you blame him or Elway?

The Bears traded for Cutler, gave him no weapons or protection and brought in new offenses for him to learn every year. They finally got some offensive talent around him but assemble the worst defense in Bears history. (Bears were number 2 scoring offense in 2013) And then add in that the Bears had maybe the most inept coaching staffs in the history of the NFL last year. The team was dysfunctional last year and it had nothing to do with Cutler.

No one is saying that Cutler is the best qb in the league or even that he isn't overpaid. Just that there are worse options than him. That is the problem with all the Cutler haters. They just say get rid of him but can't name a better replacement. If there is an upgrade at quarterback out there for Chicago I'm all for it. I'd get rid of Cutler in a heartbeat for a better qb.

1) You are sounding like a Pats fan regarding Manning. I am not talking about Peyton Manning. However, if I was, I would definitely bet on his stats being far better than Cutler's, given the same weapons.
2) 2013 right? That's a terrible argument! Wasn't that the year that McCown was your better QB? If so, why bother using it in this argument?? Yikes, get the facts!!
3) I don't hate Jay. I don't mind him as a person, but I do have some issues with him (from his time here). Regardless, the reason no one can name a better replacement, because his contract got in the way of everything. Otherwise it would be relatively easy to find a replacement. I still think McCown was your better option this past year. Otherwise there are lots of current players, and definitely one or more newly drafted ones who would give you a better long term option, based on dollars and productivity.

More details on 2013 season:

Passer Rating:
McCown - 109.0
Cutler - 89.2

TDs/Ints:
McCown - 13/1
Cutler - 19/12

There are more stats. But cmon, McCown led The Bears in '13. Jay's injury gave McCown the keys to the car, and he drove it very well. Better for sure than his injured mate.

Chitown
05-11-2015, 01:17 PM
1) You are sounding like a Pats fan regarding Manning. I am not talking about Peyton Manning. However, if I was, I would definitely bet on his stats being far better than Cutler's, given the same weapons.
2) 2013 right? That's a terrible argument! Wasn't that the year that McCown was your better QB? If so, why bother using it in this argument?? Yikes, get the facts!!
3) I don't hate Jay. I don't mind him as a person, but I do have some issues with him (from his time here). Regardless, the reason no one can name a better replacement, because his contract got in the way of everything. Otherwise it would be relatively easy to find a replacement. I still think McCown was your better option this past year. Otherwise there are lots of current players, and definitely one or more newly drafted ones who would give you a better long term option, based on dollars and productivity.

More details on 2013 season:

Passer Rating:
McCown - 109.0
Cutler - 89.2

TDs/Ints:
McCown - 13/1
Cutler - 19/12

There are more stats. But cmon, McCown led The Bears in '13. Jay's injury gave McCown the keys to the car, and he drove it very well. Better for sure than his injured mate.

Josh McCown lol. Maybe the Bears should have kept McCown. Then he could have lead the Bears to the number 1 pick instead of Tampa. Because that's what he would have done. That's what I mean. Josh McCown is terrible and you would have picked him just like Tampa Bay did. Tampa has Mike Evans and Vincent Jackson. McCown did what he did in Chicago. He threw up prayers hoping Evans and Jackson would catch them like Jeffery and Marshall did for him in Chicago. I doubt you even watched the Bears games that McCown played in.

Of course Manning would put up better stats. He is the biggest stat padder in the history of the NFL. It doesn't matter if he is winning by 30 points. He won't come out of the game and still check out of run plays to throw screen passes.

I bring up Manning because if it's ok to make excuses for him every year then why is not ok to make excuses for Cutler too?

AC1
05-12-2015, 05:54 AM
It is interesting that you bring up Cutler in 2010 because I believe that 2010 and 2011 is the template for Cutler to be a successful NFL quarterback. Quality OC, strong running game, balanced passing attack, and a very good defense that lets you to play a field position game. Take the pressure off Jay to play that perfect game, because lets face it he has never been an elite quarterback that can carry a team such as Brady or Manning can.

Weapons you say.......In 2010 and '11 with a horrible OL, below average WR's, Matt Forte and a very strong D Cutler's numbers were actually better than 2013 and '14 with a much better OL, Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett, but the worst defense in Bears history. Does defense matter.......unless you are Brady or Manning in their prime, it sure does. Overall Jay's weapons in 2015 are the most impressive they have ever been here in Chicago, Forte, Jeffery, White, Royal, and Bennett. Can Cutler and the Bears improve.......Only if Fangio's 3-4 defense is a hit in it's first year.

Good points. It seems as if with Cutler, he is only allowed to have one of the factors needed for success. Either he gets decent WRs or a good defense and when he has both, they go and change the offensive scheme on him.

Some ignorant fans wonder why there is always an "excuse" for Cutler's performance. It's because there has never been the kind of stable environment that other "elite" QBs have enjoyed.

For what its worth, the most important thing to a QB IMO is scheme continuity. If you look at the careers of Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, it stands to reason that had they been drafted in each other spots they would have had each other's careers. If anything Alex Smith might have been even better than Rodgers is now because he has a much better attitude than the somewhat ______y Rodgers.

Cutler has never had scheme consistency and, as I said at the start of the thread, it's the perfect causal ingredient because NO QB has succeeded without it and EVERY successful QB has had it. What's more, guys like Favre have shown in 2008 and 2009 that when they play in a brand new scheme (2008), they struggle and when they go back to a familiar one (2009) they succeed again. I'm not sure how much more evidence is needed to clinch this point.

Some Denver fans though will be wilfully ignorant and small-minded when it comes to Cutler (or maybe they're just small-minded people). I wasn't as high on him as some of the ones on this board when he was first drafted. I started rooting for him when we found out that he had played the 2007 season with undiagnosed diabetes - undiagnosed because he didn't complain about any fatigue while losing 30+ pounds over the course of the season. Brandon Stokely said he would fight hard in games and after the game would collapse in a quiet corner so as to not attract too much attention. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would have a clash of egos with a new head coach, but then of course we got the vice-president of evil from the New England Cheatriots.

It's sad that some Denver fans still side with the creep from New England and continue their gratuitous hatred for Cutler. You'll never convince those guys with reason and logic.

PS: Dave (CanDB) is the honorable exception to the subset of fans I mentioned. He may sound anti-Cutler but he tries hard to be objective and fair about the guy.

AC1
05-12-2015, 06:07 AM
1) You are sounding like a Pats fan regarding Manning. I am not talking about Peyton Manning. However, if I was, I would definitely bet on his stats being far better than Cutler's, given the same weapons.
2) 2013 right? That's a terrible argument! Wasn't that the year that McCown was your better QB? If so, why bother using it in this argument?? Yikes, get the facts!!
3) I don't hate Jay. I don't mind him as a person, but I do have some issues with him (from his time here). Regardless, the reason no one can name a better replacement, because his contract got in the way of everything. Otherwise it would be relatively easy to find a replacement. I still think McCown was your better option this past year. Otherwise there are lots of current players, and definitely one or more newly drafted ones who would give you a better long term option, based on dollars and productivity.

More details on 2013 season:

Passer Rating:
McCown - 109.0
Cutler - 89.2

TDs/Ints:
McCown - 13/1
Cutler - 19/12

There are more stats. But cmon, McCown led The Bears in '13. Jay's injury gave McCown the keys to the car, and he drove it very well. Better for sure than his injured mate.

Sorry Dave, but that's a very uneducated opinion. Most smart folks who watched the majority of Bears games (and I did, being in Chicago) know that McCown's stats don't tell the whole story. The only doubt about who the Bears would pick was created by the media. From the coaches' and players' standpoint, there was never any doubt about who the better QB was. Think about it, the Bears gave Cutler a market contract when they had a better option (according to you) and didn't even use him as negotiating leverage.

Cutler in 2013 was still not as good as Cutler in 2008 and that's just a sad state of affairs that can be chalked up to how he has been handled. As Chitown said, the Bears did nothing to capitalize on a trade that quite frankly they were quite lucky to be able to make (because of the dumb idiot that was running things here at the time).

If you look at what McCarthy has been able to turn Rodgers into, it's hard not to wonder what Shanahan (a way better offensive mind than McCarthy) would have done with Cutler (at least an equal talent to Rodgers when they were both starting out). Eff Joe Ellis and his slimy machinations. I'm going to go throw something now.

bears6385
05-12-2015, 06:35 PM
I respect your opinion, but you are doing what almost every Bear fan does when they come here to defend Jay.....you already have an excuse for him. Why not just admit that he has a lot of weapons, like he did last season, and it's on him, as the on the field leader, to make the most of his O. Sure, D is important, but we are talking about Jay Cutler, the QB, with a lot of weapons and a decent Oline. It's his job to generate yards and points.

It always seems like there's an excuse for this guy. In my books, when you have a contract of his nature, and you have some weapons, you deliver when the ball is in your hands.

When you think of it, if you had a QB making "reasonable" money (more aligned to their skill), you could add another quality defender.It's simply not an excuse.......Cutler is not an elite QB, he is middle of the pack, so for him to succeed the most important thing he needs is a strong defense. 2008 an 8-8 record with a lot of weapons, Marshall, Royal etc. over 4000 passing yds, and the leagues worst defense, 2009 a 7-9 record after the Bears lose their defensive leader Urlacher for the season in game one. 2013 and 2014 8-8 and 5-11 with the worst defense in Bears history. 2010, 2011, 2012, 10-6, 7-3, 10-6 with a very good defense behind him. Just the facts.

HUMCALC
05-12-2015, 06:45 PM
Sorry Dave, but that's a very uneducated opinion. Most smart folks who watched the majority of Bears games (and I did, being in Chicago) know that McCown's stats don't tell the whole story. The only doubt about who the Bears would pick was created by the media. From the coaches' and players' standpoint, there was never any doubt about who the better QB was. Think about it, the Bears gave Cutler a market contract when they had a better option (according to you) and didn't even use him as negotiating leverage.

Cutler in 2013 was still not as good as Cutler in 2008 and that's just a sad state of affairs that can be chalked up to how he has been handled. As Chitown said, the Bears did nothing to capitalize on a trade that quite frankly they were quite lucky to be able to make (because of the dumb idiot that was running things here at the time).

If you look at what McCarthy has been able to turn Rodgers into, it's hard not to wonder what Shanahan (a way better offensive mind than McCarthy) would have done with Cutler (at least an equal talent to Rodgers when they were both starting out). Eff Joe Ellis and his slimy machinations. I'm going to go throw something now.

95% of Bears fans didn't want Cutler back after McCown CLEARLY OUTPLAYED HIM!

Chitown
05-13-2015, 01:50 PM
95% of Bears fans didn't want Cutler back after McCown CLEARLY OUTPLAYED HIM!

Right. That would be like me saying 95% of Bronco fans wanted Tebow over Manning. The debate was McCown or Cutler with a torn groin. And it still wasn't close to 95% McCown.

Many Bears fans saw the limitations of Josh McCown even though he was putting up the best stats in the NFL. Passes thrown straight to defenders that were dropped, 10 yard outs on 3rd downs that bounced half way there. Also he was playing against the worst pass defenses in the league. Oh yea, and the Bears were still losing games.

CanDB
05-13-2015, 02:05 PM
Sorry Dave, but that's a very uneducated opinion. Most smart folks who watched the majority of Bears games (and I did, being in Chicago) know that McCown's stats don't tell the whole story. The only doubt about who the Bears would pick was created by the media. From the coaches' and players' standpoint, there was never any doubt about who the better QB was. Think about it, the Bears gave Cutler a market contract when they had a better option (according to you) and didn't even use him as negotiating leverage.

Cutler in 2013 was still not as good as Cutler in 2008 and that's just a sad state of affairs that can be chalked up to how he has been handled. As Chitown said, the Bears did nothing to capitalize on a trade that quite frankly they were quite lucky to be able to make (because of the dumb idiot that was running things here at the time).

If you look at what McCarthy has been able to turn Rodgers into, it's hard not to wonder what Shanahan (a way better offensive mind than McCarthy) would have done with Cutler (at least an equal talent to Rodgers when they were both starting out). Eff Joe Ellis and his slimy machinations. I'm going to go throw something now.

I'm cool AC. It's just that Chitown tries to throw one past us with the "2013 was a banner year", but does not remind everyone that Jay was hurt for a chunk of the season, and McCown outperformed him. It was a ridiculous statement, and should have been defined better before being offered as a big positive. Cmon AC, we're smarter than that.

The reason I said McCown was the better choice in '14 was based on his '13 season and his price tag. He seemed custom-made for The '13 Bears. He is not a better QB than Jay, but for he price he was the better option in my books. To be sure, McCown was not special in '14, but he was in a different situation....not to mention, Jay was not impressive in '14 either.

Regardless, thanks for the friendly comment in the other post. I'll admit, I have been tough on Jay. He can be annoying, and he has under-performed in my books. But I give you credit for the good conversations we've had.

:thumb:

HUMCALC
05-13-2015, 02:06 PM
Right. That would be like me saying 95% of Bronco fans wanted Tebow over Manning. The debate was McCown or Cutler with a torn groin. And it still wasn't close to 95% McCown.

Many Bears fans saw the limitations of Josh McCown even though he was putting up the best stats in the NFL. Passes thrown straight to defenders that were dropped, 10 yard outs on 3rd downs that bounced half way there. Also he was playing against the worst pass defenses in the league. Oh yea, and the Bears were still losing games.

Really? Social media was LIT UP with fans calling for management to leave McCown as the starter, even when Cutler came back healthy. As for Tebow/Manning, Colorado was split down the middle on that one, ESPN showed the polls for that one

Chitown
05-13-2015, 02:58 PM
Really? Social media was LIT UP with fans calling for management to leave McCown as the starter, even when Cutler came back healthy. As for Tebow/Manning, Colorado was split down the middle on that one, ESPN showed the polls for that one

Here is a poll from a Bears message board dated 12-10-2013. The day after McCown threw for 348 yards four touchdowns and 0 interceptions.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/43274-Who-should-start-in-QB-position-for-next-year?

Cutler returned the next week. But a month earlier he tried to return against the Lions and he couldn't move at all due to the torn groin.

I know that people wanted him to start over Cutler in 2013 due to injury concerns. But not going forward.

AC1
05-13-2015, 04:19 PM
I'm cool AC. It's just that Chitown tries to throw one past us with the "2013 was a banner year", but does not remind everyone that Jay was hurt for a chunk of the season, and McCown outperformed him. It was a ridiculous statement, and should have been defined better before being offered as a big positive. Cmon AC, we're smarter than that.

The reason I said McCown was the better choice in '14 was based on his '13 season and his price tag. He seemed custom-made for The '13 Bears. He is not a better QB than Jay, but for he price he was the better option in my books. To be sure, McCown was not special in '14, but he was in a different situation....not to mention, Jay was not impressive in '14 either.

Regardless, thanks for the friendly comment in the other post. I'll admit, I have been tough on Jay. He can be annoying, and he has under-performed in my books. But I give you credit for the good conversations we've had.

:thumb:

I hear you Dave. I think the overwhelming feeling about McCown in Chicago was that he had very fortuitous circumstances and that those performances were unlikely to be repeated. Most Bears fans I know also thought they would have won more games had Cutler played the whole season.

I think you might have a point with the price tag, but McCown was a free agent the following year and if he was as good as his stats in Chicago indicated, he would have gotten a bigger contract.

In any event, I think these Cutler threads do get out of hand. I wasn't as high on the guy as many here were when he was drafted (I wanted us to get Haloti Ngata). However, he won my support with his display of toughness when dealing with undiagnosed diabetes, his competitiveness and work ethic while he was here, but most of all for his loyalty to Mike Shanahan - a guy who doesn't get his due in this town if you ask me (Elway gets a lot of the credit that should rightly go to Shanahan; a lot like McCarthy/Rodgers and Payton/Brees, but that's a whole other thread entirely). I also liked it a lot when he stood up to McDaniels and his nonsense.

It looks like Cutler's career is going to go by without realizing his potential. Given how much money he's made, I'm sure he's pretty happy. To answer the thread's original question you posed, I've been thinking that it takes a lot to create an elite QB. That's why there are so few of them. Denver and Cutler had the right start, but the moment that Bowlen fired Shanahan, I think that was over.

There's a bunch of people who believe that Cutler hasn't had more success in large part due to his own failings. Many of these people either live in Denver or root for the Broncos. I don't think this group is ever going to change their mind. Even if Cutler wins the next two Super Bowls, they will find reasons to explain it away. People who believe, as I do, that Cutler (and the likes of Alex Smith and Jason Campbell) would be better QBs with a more stable environment (at least early in their careers) can also not be proven wrong (since that would require trip back in time). So we're stuck in a situation where the two groups will never agree. As we have discussed before, it might be well past time to "agree to disagree: :):peace:

Garfield
05-13-2015, 05:04 PM
I hear you Dave. I think the overwhelming feeling about McCown in Chicago was that he had very fortuitous circumstances and that those performances were unlikely to be repeated. Most Bears fans I know also thought they would have won more games had Cutler played the whole season.

I think you might have a point with the price tag, but McCown was a free agent the following year and if he was as good as his stats in Chicago indicated, he would have gotten a bigger contract.

In any event, I think these Cutler threads do get out of hand. I wasn't as high on the guy as many here were when he was drafted (I wanted us to get Haloti Ngata). However, he won my support with his display of toughness when dealing with undiagnosed diabetes, his competitiveness and work ethic while he was here, but most of all for his loyalty to Mike Shanahan - a guy who doesn't get his due in this town if you ask me (Elway gets a lot of the credit that should rightly go to Shanahan; a lot like McCarthy/Rodgers and Payton/Brees, but that's a whole other thread entirely). I also liked it a lot when he stood up to McDaniels and his nonsense.

It looks like Cutler's career is going to go by without realizing his potential. Given how much money he's made, I'm sure he's pretty happy. To answer the thread's original question you posed, I've been thinking that it takes a lot to create an elite QB. That's why there are so few of them. Denver and Cutler had the right start, but the moment that Bowlen fired Shanahan, I think that was over.

There's a bunch of people who believe that Cutler hasn't had more success in large part due to his own failings. Many of these people either live in Denver or root for the Broncos. I don't think this group is ever going to change their mind. Even if Cutler wins the next two Super Bowls, they will find reasons to explain it away. People who believe, as I do, that Cutler (and the likes of Alex Smith and Jason Campbell) would be better QBs with a more stable environment (at least early in their careers) can also not be proven wrong (since that would require trip back in time). So we're stuck in a situation where the two groups will never agree. As we have discussed before, it might be well past time to "agree to disagree: :):peace:

If you really believe that tripe then Fantasy Land is in Orange County.

Chitown
05-13-2015, 05:21 PM
I'm cool AC. It's just that Chitown tries to throw one past us with the "2013 was a banner year", but does not remind everyone that Jay was hurt for a chunk of the season, and McCown outperformed him. It was a ridiculous statement, and should have been defined better before being offered as a big positive. Cmon AC, we're smarter than that.

The reason I said McCown was the better choice in '14 was based on his '13 season and his price tag. He seemed custom-made for The '13 Bears. He is not a better QB than Jay, but for he price he was the better option in my books. To be sure, McCown was not special in '14, but he was in a different situation....not to mention, Jay was not impressive in '14 either.

Regardless, thanks for the friendly comment in the other post. I'll admit, I have been tough on Jay. He can be annoying, and he has under-performed in my books. But I give you credit for the good conversations we've had.

:thumb:

You are basing out performed mostly by stats. You know who McCown also out performed? Everyone
http://www.rrstar.com/article/20131127/BLOGS/131129420

So why wasn't every team in the NFL not trying to get McCown who clearly outplayed everyone? It's because if you actually watched him play you could see he wasn't out performing everyone and that he is just a career back up having a very hot (and lucky) streak against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL that year.

Despite what you think of McCown and his stats, a healthy Cutler gave the Bears a better chance to win in 2013 and 2014.

CanDB
05-13-2015, 06:09 PM
You are basing out performed mostly by stats. You know who McCown also out performed? Everyone
http://www.rrstar.com/article/20131127/BLOGS/131129420

So why wasn't every team in the NFL not trying to get McCown who clearly outplayed everyone? It's because if you actually watched him play you could see he wasn't out performing everyone and that he is just a career back up having a very hot (and lucky) streak against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL that year.

Despite what you think of McCown and his stats, a healthy Cutler gave the Bears a better chance to win in 2013 and 2014.

2013:

Cutler - 5 wins / 6 losses

McCown - 3 wins / 2 losses

So McCown had better game stats and he had a better record in wins and losses. NO matter how you slice it, McCown was better than Jay in 2013. That is why I ask you to reconsider what a great year Jay had in 2013, when in fact, Josh was key to the stats you referred to.

The real question for you is, how does a lousy backup outperform your starter, and how come Jay was not being sought out by anyone in '15? I think you know the answers.

HUMCALC
05-13-2015, 06:58 PM
You are basing out performed mostly by stats. You know who McCown also out performed? Everyone
http://www.rrstar.com/article/20131127/BLOGS/131129420

So why wasn't every team in the NFL not trying to get McCown who clearly outplayed everyone? It's because if you actually watched him play you could see he wasn't out performing everyone and that he is just a career back up having a very hot (and lucky) streak against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL that year.

Despite what you think of McCown and his stats, a healthy Cutler gave the Bears a better chance to win in 2013 and 2014.

Why is it that after a miserable season in TB, McCown still had more suitors that Cutler did?

Chitown
05-13-2015, 09:31 PM
2013:

Cutler - 5 wins / 6 losses

McCown - 3 wins / 2 losses

So McCown had better game stats and he had a better record in wins and losses. NO matter how you slice it, McCown was better than Jay in 2013. That is why I ask you to reconsider what a great year Jay had in 2013, when in fact, Josh was key to the stats you referred to.

The real question for you is, how does a lousy backup outperform your starter, and how come Jay was not being sought out by anyone in '15? I think you know the answers.

Two of Cutler losses were the Redskins game that McCown played the entire 2nd half of and the Lions game when Cutler couldn't move and McCown had to finish it. Also, McCown played the 31st, 30th, 24th, 19th and 12th ranked passing defenses. 216 yards vs. the number 12 ranked defense and lost to the 19th ranked defense 42-21.

Jay was under contract for 2015 and not a free agent. And the Bears did not seek a trade for him. So I guess that's why Jay was not being sought in '15. Had the Bears just released him there would have been multiple suitors looking at him. Titans, Bills, Jets, Tampa, Rams, Browns.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/447423/bears-didnt-make-calls-shop-jay-cutler-report

With your logic Josh McCown is better than every quarterback in the NFL. Not just Jay. Because that's what the stats say.

The most passing yards in a single game that year for the Bears were Cutlers 358 against the Saints. The number 2 ranked passing defense in 2013.

Chitown
05-13-2015, 09:31 PM
Why is it that after a miserable season in TB, McCown still had more suitors that Cutler did?

Because Cutler wasn't a free agent?

HUMCALC
05-14-2015, 12:23 PM
Because Cutler wasn't a free agent?

A dozen teams (or so) could have used a QB in a weak QB off-season, and yet no one was willing to trade for him. The teams that needed a QB include: BUFF, NYJ, TB, TENN, PHI, STL, ARI, KC, CLE, HOU, WSH, etc. & yet none of these teams were willing to trade for a more talented QB than what they had, because they knew what everybody else knows, that CUTLER is an overpriced crybaby, who can't deliver when it's needed

Chitown
05-14-2015, 01:57 PM
A dozen teams (or so) could have used a QB in a weak QB off-season, and yet no one was willing to trade for him. The teams that needed a QB include: BUFF, NYJ, TB, TENN, PHI, STL, ARI, KC, CLE, HOU, WSH, etc. & yet none of these teams were willing to trade for a more talented QB than what they had, because they knew what everybody else knows, that CUTLER is an overpriced crybaby, who can't deliver when it's needed

Wow. Cutler was not being shopped by the Bears. So I guess all those teams didn't want Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady either? You don't know that teams weren't willing to trade for Jay. Why would the Bears trade away Cutler and trade places with one of these teams that don't have a qb? It doesn't make sense.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/447423/bears-didnt-make-calls-shop-jay-cutler-report

http://www.csnchicago.com/bears/bears-gm-ryan-pace-we-didn%E2%80%99t-try-trade-jay-cutler

If anything, the Bears were in talks with the Titans to get the number two pick this year. Titans wanted two 1sts, another pick and a player.


Aaron Leming @AaronLemingNFL · Apr 30

Being told the #Bears would need to include AT LEAST this & next year's 1st rounders plus a pick & possibly a player for Mariota.

You should focus on your own quarterback who can't deliver when it's needed. On the most loaded team in the NFL at that.

Chitown
05-14-2015, 02:39 PM
Why is it that after a miserable season in TB, McCown still had more suitors that Cutler did?

You might as well have said this.

Why is it that after a miserable season in TB, McCown still had more suitors than Aaron Rogers did?

It would have made the same amount of sense.

broncolee
05-14-2015, 03:02 PM
Denver did not hurt Cutler's career. If I remember right, the Broncos had one of the better offenses in the league when Cutler was the quarterback. If anything, Shanahan helped Cutler by making him look better than he really is.

Cutler is no worse for having started midway through his rookie season anymore than Rodgers is any better for having sat for three years. Cutler is what he is and Rodgers is what he is regardless of time behind an older quarterback. The idea that the NFL develops players is overblown. The NFL refines talent that is already in existence within a particular player. Cutler has the desired physical tools but not necessarily the same quarterbacking talent as the great quarterbacks do.

HUMCALC
05-14-2015, 08:19 PM
You might as well have said this.

Why is it that after a miserable season in TB, McCown still had more suitors than Aaron Rogers did?

It would have made the same amount of sense.

No, that is not an appropriate analogy. GB wasn't looking to get rid of Rodgers, and CHI was desperate get rid of him and that contract. Had GB wanted to shop Rodgers, teams would have been on the phone day and night

Chitown
05-14-2015, 08:42 PM
No, that is not an appropriate analogy. GB wasn't looking to get rid of Rodgers, and CHI was desperate get rid of him and that contract. Had GB wanted to shop Rodgers, teams would have been on the phone day and night

Chicago was so desperate they didn't call anyone to see if they wanted him. They were so desperate they could have cut him before next years salary was guaranteed.

You must not be reading the links I'm posting.

HUMCALC
05-14-2015, 08:47 PM
Chicago was so desperate they didn't call anyone to see if they wanted him. They were so desperate they could have cut him before next years salary was guaranteed.

You must not be reading the links I'm posting.

You're deluding yourself if you think that CHI didn't call around. There were multiple reports of them shopping him

Chitown
05-14-2015, 10:56 PM
You're deluding yourself if you think that CHI didn't call around. There were multiple reports of them shopping him

There was speculation that they were. They weren't. Read the articles. If they were so desperate to get rid of him as you claim they could have cut him before his 2016 salary was guaranteed.

Show me one confirmed report of the Bears shopping Cutler besides trying to get up to number two the day of the draft. Which the Bears declined because the price was to high.

Had Chicago wanted to shop Cutler, every team you mentioned earlier would have shown interest. Other wise their GMs are not doing their jobs.

The funniest thing I find about Cutler haters is they all make up lies about the guy. Just hate the guy. Maybe they know deep down they don't have any real reasons to hate him so they have to justify it in their own minds.

HUMCALC
05-15-2015, 05:45 PM
There was speculation that they were. They weren't. Read the articles. If they were so desperate to get rid of him as you claim they could have cut him before his 2016 salary was guaranteed.

Show me one confirmed report of the Bears shopping Cutler besides trying to get up to number two the day of the draft. Which the Bears declined because the price was to high.

Had Chicago wanted to shop Cutler, every team you mentioned earlier would have shown interest. Other wise their GMs are not doing their jobs.

The funniest thing I find about Cutler haters is they all make up lies about the guy. Just hate the guy. Maybe they know deep down they don't have any real reasons to hate him so they have to justify it in their own minds.

His cocky demeanor alone is enough to hate him. The fact that he was supposed to revitalize 2 different franchises, and has failed to do so is another reason. How about throwing tantrums when things don't go his way? How about the fact that he audibled non-stop last year? How about the fact that his teammates couldn't stand him? Need I go on?

Taos_Broncomaniac
05-15-2015, 08:15 PM
Did Jay Cutler hurt Jake 'the Snake' Plummer's career

Jake and I still wonder what could have been, If we had drafted Haloti Ngata instead of JC.

I never really forgave Shanny for that one...

bears6385
05-15-2015, 09:26 PM
2013:

Cutler - 5 wins / 6 losses

McCown - 3 wins / 2 losses

So McCown had better game stats and he had a better record in wins and losses. NO matter how you slice it, McCown was better than Jay in 2013. That is why I ask you to reconsider what a great year Jay had in 2013, when in fact, Josh was key to the stats you referred to.

The real question for you is, how does a lousy backup outperform your starter, and how come Jay was not being sought out by anyone in '15? I think you know the answers.Wow people still come up with this crap. In no way shape or form was McCown a better QB than Cutler in 2013 if you really look at the games they played in. In the first six games of the season that Jay started before his injury 12 td's to 6 int's, QB ratings of 93.2, 97.7, 90.8, 65.6, 128.1, 106.5, then in two of his last three games after coming back healthy 102 and 108. Jay also faced five of the toughest defenses in the league in 2013, Bengals, Browns, Saints, Giants, and Steelers, going 4-1 against those teams. McCown had the best five games of his career, a hell of a hot streak, one that he never had before or since. You point out Josh's stats, but they were put up against four bottom feeding defenses, Packers, Rams, Vikings, and Cowboys. So in 2013 Cutler goes 4-1 against some of the leagues best D's, and Mccown goes 2-2 against bottom feeding D's while beating one good team. Those are the facts behind the stats.

BTW in hindsight the best move the Bears could have made last year would have been to let Josh walk and franchise Jay. Reason Cutler could not be moved in the offseason............A contract no other team could take on, and a huge cap hit that would have limited the Bears for the next two years.

bears6385
05-15-2015, 09:36 PM
95% of Bears fans didn't want Cutler back after McCown CLEARLY OUTPLAYED HIM!Here in Chicago we call a statement like that outta town stupid.

Garfield
05-15-2015, 10:04 PM
Here in Chicago we call a statement like that outta town stupid.

in the work I do I speak to folks in Chicago quite a bit and from the second season on I have only talked to one fan of cutler.



which would be closer to 99% in my unscientific poll.

Now I did not talk to them about Mc Cown vs Cutler, but they figured him (Cutler) out damned fast.

HUMCALC
05-15-2015, 10:14 PM
Jake and I still wonder what could have been, If we had drafted Haloti Ngata instead of JC.

I never really forgave Shanny for that one...

Same here, and I live right near Chicago & I'm surrounded by Bears fans. Also my family & I are bombarded on Facebook by Bears fans

fallforward3y+
05-18-2015, 12:34 AM
Denver did not hurt Cutler's career. If I remember right, the Broncos had one of the better offenses in the league when Cutler was the quarterback. If anything, Shanahan helped Cutler by making him look better than he really is.

Cutler is no worse for having started midway through his rookie season anymore than Rodgers is any better for having sat for three years. Cutler is what he is and Rodgers is what he is regardless of time behind an older quarterback. The idea that the NFL develops players is overblown. The NFL refines talent that is already in existence within a particular player. Cutler has the desired physical tools but not necessarily the same quarterbacking talent as the great quarterbacks do.

This is very hard to believe, and probably harder to believe about the QB position than any other position. The QB position is probably more mental than any other, which is part of why there are so many QB draft busts.

The jump from college to NFL for a QB is huge. There are a lot of new things to learn, more film to study, and a level of defensive packages, facing off with monstrous pass rushes and well designed defenses by defensive coordinators the likes of which they have likely never seen before. The mental adjustment there is huge, and to say that how the NFL develops a QB doesn't play a huge role in how they turn out seems incredibly ridiculous.

So much of what a QB does is mental. It's about reading a defense, knowing how to find favorable match ups for your receivers, quick release, making sound decisions on when to throw, making sound decisions on who to throw it to, doing well when under pressure and etc.

I highly doubt Cutler's struggles have much to do with physical talent. JeMarcuss Russell probably is more physically talented than Tom Brady is. However, Brady has the edge over most QBs mentally, which is part of why he is so great. Cutler's struggles seem largely mental. Great pass offenses typically feature a lot of throws that physically speaking, are easy for the QB to make, creating situations where there are easy completions. However, finding those, and making them happen is part of the mental aspect of playing QB, that's a big part of what helps a QB be great.

In Cutler's case, his struggles do not seem to be a lack of talent preventing him from making difficult throws, however more so a tendency to attempt those difficult throws over easier, but effective completions.

AC1
05-18-2015, 09:20 AM
If you really believe that tripe then Fantasy Land is in Orange County.

If you think any of what I said was incorrect, there's a bridge salesman I'm happy to recommend.

captainbronco
05-18-2015, 10:07 AM
Haha what a stupid question

CanDB
05-18-2015, 10:23 AM
Haha what a stupid question

Ha ha.....what a stupid response.

captainbronco
05-18-2015, 02:57 PM
Ha ha.....what a stupid response.

c'mon man cutler hurt cutlers career dont ask stupid questions cause you'll get stupid answers :)

Chitown
05-18-2015, 03:51 PM
c'mon man cutler hurt cutlers career dont ask stupid questions cause you'll get stupid answers :)
He really screwed up. Only 54 million dollars guaranteed for three years.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/jay-cutler/

The reason he hasn't had the success on the field is how poorly the Bears have been ran since he was traded to them.

HUMCALC
05-18-2015, 04:21 PM
Excuses, excuses. People make too many excuses for Cutler. The guys has exquisite physical talents, but he has his head so far up his butt that he can't see the light of day. He has no leadership qualities and still hasn't learned how to read defenses and make the proper adjustments and throws. He's been a starter in the league longer than most of the QBs in this league, and what has he accomplished?

CanDB
05-18-2015, 04:29 PM
c'mon man cutler hurt cutlers career dont ask stupid questions cause you'll get stupid answers :)

Cmon man.....I believe the question I asked was worth asking. I am not a Cutler fan, but I do wonder if he needed some more time before taking over a team.

I don't mind you having a strong opinion, but don't take a shot at someone for the question. It says a lot about you dude. And what if there are two sides to this? I guess there aren't then, based on your view. I learned a long time ago that calling something or someone stupid, especially in an open minded discussion, is not cool.

In my many years of sports, I have seen many prospects in many sports turn out to be "busts", as people like to call them, because they were thrown into action too soon, and never rebounded. And probably more common, but not something people tend to gauge as closely, but how many people have done ok that could have done much better had they been groomed properly. I don't think we'll ever know the answer, or many cases, don't even appreciate that it's a problem.

So no, it's not a stupid question.

captainbronco
05-18-2015, 05:07 PM
He really screwed up. Only 54 million dollars guaranteed for three years.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/jay-cutler/

The reason he hasn't had the success on the field is how poorly the Bears have been ran since he was traded to them.

No he didnt screw up he screwed the bears :laugh:

captainbronco
05-18-2015, 05:11 PM
Cmon man.....I believe the question I asked was worth asking. I am not a Cutler fan, but I do wonder if he needed some more time before taking over a team.

I don't mind you having a strong opinion, but don't take a shot at someone for the question. It says a lot about you dude. And what if there are two sides to this? I guess there aren't then, based on your view. I learned a long time ago that calling something or someone stupid, especially in an open minded discussion, is not cool.

In my many years of sports, I have seen many prospects in many sports turn out to be "busts", as people like to call them, because they were thrown into action too soon, and never rebounded. And probably more common, but not something people tend to gauge as closely, but how many people have done ok that could have done much better had they been groomed properly. I don't think we'll ever know the answer, or many cases, don't even appreciate that it's a problem.

So no, it's not a stupid question.

I get what you're saying but this far in his career you'd think he would've developed into something at least top 15 but he seems to regress year after year maybe not in numbers but his attitude has regressed

I said it was a stupid question because the title to your thread is implying that denver made cutler suck because the only person who can make cutler suck is cutler his excuses have all be exhausted

Houshmazode
05-18-2015, 05:15 PM
I think he may have been thrown to the fire a bit too early, but he still had a couple decent years in Denver and was developing nicely until McDaniels got here. I think more than anything his attitude has gotten him where he is today (and I guess that's not saying much because, well, look at his contract).

CanDB
05-18-2015, 08:39 PM
I get what you're saying but this far in his career you'd think he would've developed into something at least top 15 but he seems to regress year after year maybe not in numbers but his attitude has regressed

I said it was a stupid question because the title to your thread is implying that denver made cutler suck because the only person who can make cutler suck is cutler his excuses have all be exhausted

How do you get "implied" from a straightforward question? I simply asked it. Sure, I clearly have thought about it, but it was asked as a question. I look at Rodgers and even though he had to wait too long to show his stuff, he might have gained for being on the sideline for a year or so.

So....nothing stupid. Nothing implied. You have freedom of thought, and you can imply something or not by simply using your own intellect to determine.

Chitown
05-21-2015, 09:35 PM
A dozen teams (or so) could have used a QB in a weak QB off-season, and yet no one was willing to trade for him. The teams that needed a QB include: BUFF, NYJ, TB, TENN, PHI, STL, ARI, KC, CLE, HOU, WSH, etc. & yet none of these teams were willing to trade for a more talented QB than what they had, because they knew what everybody else knows, that CUTLER is an overpriced crybaby, who can't deliver when it's needed

Jay Cutler was one of the first ones to call Royal and recruit him to Chicago. Article from March 13th. Seems weird for the team to have Cutler recruiting players if they wanted him gone so bad. And if he is such a bad leader and player why are many ex-teammates so willing to reunite with him?

http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/438817/eddie-royal-bears-qb-jay-cutler-recruited

“He was one of the first people to reach out and talk to me,” Royal said. “That meant a lot. Just as a receiver, you want the quarterback to be on the same page as you, on and off the field. You want that connection and that bond. We had that from the minute we got on the field.”

Asked about Cutler as a leader, Royal said he was “great for me”.

HUMCALC
05-21-2015, 09:50 PM
Jay Cutler was one of the first ones to call Royal and recruit him to Chicago. Article from March 13th. Seems weird for the team to have Cutler recruiting players if they wanted him gone so bad. And if he is such a bad leader and player why are many ex-teammates so willing to reunite with him?

http://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-football/7/71/438817/eddie-royal-bears-qb-jay-cutler-recruited

“He was one of the first people to reach out and talk to me,” Royal said. “That meant a lot. Just as a receiver, you want the quarterback to be on the same page as you, on and off the field. You want that connection and that bond. We had that from the minute we got on the field.”

Asked about Cutler as a leader, Royal said he was “great for me”.

Halfway through his 2nd season here in Chicago, it was reported by multiple reporters that TEAMMATES WERE LINING UP TO PUNCH HIS LIGHTS OUT! It was also rumored that he had problems with his teammates when he was on the Broncos

Chitown
05-22-2015, 07:30 AM
Halfway through his 2nd season here in Chicago, it was reported by multiple reporters that TEAMMATES WERE LINING UP TO PUNCH HIS LIGHTS OUT! It was also rumored that he had problems with his teammates when he was on the Broncos

With multiple reports that teammates want to punch his lights out you think a simple google search would pull it up. You shouldn't listen to the rumors. You should listen to the actual facts.

Champ Bailey liked him.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/2/819791/champ-bailey-discusses-his

Tony Scheffler.

http://nfldraftdiamonds.com/bears-work-out-11-players-jay-cutlers-friend-tony-scheffler-one/

And Kyle Long, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Greg Olsen and so on and so on. I can find link after link of players that are good friends with him and like him. Past teammates, players from other teams, even Aaron Rogers is friends with Cutler.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2010/09/aaron_rodgers_appreciates_jay.html

I think it is you that wants to punch him in the face and had problems with him in Denver.

HUMCALC
05-22-2015, 01:53 PM
With multiple reports that teammates want to punch his lights out you think a simple google search would pull it up. You shouldn't listen to the rumors. You should listen to the actual facts.

Champ Bailey liked him.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/2/819791/champ-bailey-discusses-his

Tony Scheffler.

http://nfldraftdiamonds.com/bears-work-out-11-players-jay-cutlers-friend-tony-scheffler-one/

And Kyle Long, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Greg Olsen and so on and so on. I can find link after link of players that are good friends with him and like him. Past teammates, players from other teams, even Aaron Rogers is friends with Cutler.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2010/09/aaron_rodgers_appreciates_jay.html

I think it is you that wants to punch him in the face and had problems with him in Denver.

I listened to the reporters who covered all the practices and games, and who interviewed the players in the locker room. Hardly a week went by when Chicago Sports Net weren't reporting major problems between Cutler and his teammates

Chitown
05-22-2015, 04:09 PM
I listened to the reporters who covered all the practices and games, and who interviewed the players in the locker room. Hardly a week went by when Chicago Sports Net weren't reporting major problems between Cutler and his teammates

Sounds legit.

samparnell
05-22-2015, 04:51 PM
Maybe we should ask Urlacher?

Chitown
05-22-2015, 07:19 PM
Maybe we should ask Urlacher?
As a teammate.

http://deadspin.com/5951996/brian-urlacher-says-its-seriously-time-to-chill-with-the-jay-cutler-hate

Show me Urlacher saying Cutler doesn't get along with teammates or teammates wanting to fight him.

You must be talking about when Urlacher was mad at the Bears and bashing them left and right as an analyst. I bet all the players agreed with Urlacher since they all hate Cutler.

Nope.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/matt-forte-jay-cutler-bears

samparnell
05-22-2015, 08:20 PM
As a teammate.

http://deadspin.com/5951996/brian-urlacher-says-its-seriously-time-to-chill-with-the-jay-cutler-hate

Show me Urlacher saying Cutler doesn't get along with teammates or teammates wanting to fight him.

You must be talking about when Urlacher was mad at the Bears and bashing them left and right as an analyst. I bet all the players agreed with Urlacher since they all hate Cutler.

Nope.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/matt-forte-jay-cutler-bears

I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression that I knew what Brian Urlacher would say about Jay Cutler when I wondered if we should ask him? :confused:

All I was saying was literally - maybe we should ask him. :duh:

Thanks for the links. Now we know. :salute:

Since I saw most of his home games at UNM, met him at Lobo Football Clinics and Spring Football and got to see presentations by his HS and college coaches, I just wondered what Brian would say. :D

Nice work. :clap:

Chitown
05-22-2015, 08:45 PM
I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression that I knew what Brian Urlacher would say about Jay Cutler when I wondered if we should ask him? :confused:

All I was saying was literally - maybe we should ask him. :duh:

Thanks for the links. Now we know. :salute:

Since I saw most of his home games at UNM, met him at Lobo Football Clinics and Spring Football and got to see presentations by his HS and college coaches, I just wondered what Brian would say. :D

Nice work. :clap:

Well, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use google.

samparnell
05-22-2015, 08:46 PM
Well, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use google.

It was my understanding there would be no math. :D

If you would care to search my posts on this thread, you might find that I am not particularly hard on Jay. I wish him well. If he can cut down on his turnovers, he'll be fine.

I don't need google. I've got you to do it for me. :clap: