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View Full Version : Is the 'shut down corner' becoming less effective in helping a defense?



fallforward3y+
04-16-2015, 11:48 PM
I would say so. I don't mean just due to the rules making it tougher to be a shut down corner either, I'm talking about how offenses seem to be able to find a way to throw the ball on teams despite their being an elite corner on the defense.

At times, there have been recent instances of a shut down corner seemingly making it very difficult for an offense. The GB@SEA game in week 1 is a good example of that imo, where GB trying to avoid Richard Sherman seemingly made it difficult on their offense.

However, the next week we saw the Chargers seemingly find a way to throw the ball well on the Seahawks defense, and figured out how to target Richard Sherman. I believe Keenan Allen had 3 catches against Richard Sherman, I believe on slant routes and come back routes. They weren't targeting him a lot, however it seems that they targeted Sherman enough for the defense not to be able to play off of them avoiding throwing his way. They seemed to have success with shorter, quick passes.

The Patriots seemed to do something similar in the Super Bowl. I don't believe Sherman's injury helped the Pats very much, because only 1 pass for 6 yards was thrown his way. They were able to throw the ball well on the Seahawks, while only completing 1 pass for 6 yards towards Sherman. They seemed to target the middle of the field a lot, with guys like Edelman and Amendola. It is very difficult to defend a good slot receiver, even if you have great safeties in the middle of the field or a great corner defending in the slot, it is very difficult to defend. They also used short passes out of the backfield to Vareen, or WR screens to Edelman and Amendola. Edelman trying to beat Sherman down field probably won't work well, however Edelman running in a 1 on 1 situation is a good situation no matter how good of a tackler that defender is imo, he can make guys miss, and he does well getting yards while being tackled when he is tackled.

I don't know if screens count as passes completed towards a corner, however they can be effective, as can short slant routes. Those routes are difficult to stop, even for a great corner.

These are a few instances, and there are others imo. It seems teams can find ways to get around a shut down corner by spreading the ball around very easily.

IMO spending big money on a shut down corner is not a good idea nowadays, if you don't improve your pass rush. If your going to spend big money to help pass defense, going after pass rushers is a better idea IMO. It seems a lot easier to overcome a weak secondary with a good rush, than to overcome a poor pass rush with a good secondary.

I think when you play an offense that spreads the ball around this is especially key. If you get a pass rush that causes the QB to make an errant throw or you get a sack, your stopping the QB, and thus stopping every receiver at once.

samparnell
04-17-2015, 07:42 AM
Not if your defense is planning to play a lot of Cover1/0, or Combo with the best Corner assigned to the best eligible receiver.

fallforward3y+
04-17-2015, 01:06 PM
Not if your defense is planning to play a lot of Cover1/0, or Combo with the best Corner assigned to the best eligible receiver.

A big part of the point I'm making though is that teams can often throw the ball well even while avoiding throwing to their number 1 receiver very often.

With how well designed some offenses that spread the ball around are, it seems easier for a receiver to get open, and how good some QBs are at making the second read and/or finding an open receiver if the one they initially wanted to go to isn't open, that combination is very tough on defenses imo as far as stopping the receivers, even with a shut down corner.

That's part of why I think pass rushers are far more effective in pass defense, if you stop the QB, you stop every receiver.

-Rod-
04-17-2015, 05:33 PM
There are too many impact WRs coming out of college these days. The game has become an air attack with spread formations in college and in the NFL. At least 5 or 6 WRs will be drafted in the 1st round this year. I'd rather have a good trio of CBs than use the money on 1 "shutdown" CB. We've had Champ Bailey for 10 seasons, had several years of poor defensive play and went to the Super Bowl once when he was already washed up. Champ Bailey was one of the reasons why I became a Broncos fan, but I honestly think we had a better chance with a RB like Clinton Portis running for 5.5. YPC and 1,500+ yards in our system.

fallforward3y+
04-18-2015, 02:46 AM
There are too many impact WRs coming out of college these days. The game has become an air attack with spread formations in college and in the NFL. At least 5 or 6 WRs will be drafted in the 1st round this year. I'd rather have a good trio of CBs than use the money on 1 "shutdown" CB. We've had Champ Bailey for 10 seasons, had several years of poor defensive play and went to the Super Bowl once when he was already washed up. Champ Bailey was one of the reasons why I became a Broncos fan, but I honestly think we had a better chance with a RB like Clinton Portis running for 5.5. YPC and 1,500+ yards in our system.

That's another good way to go I think, try and get a group of good corners. If you can get a shut down corner for a good price, then go for it, however if it hinders your ability to pay for other good corners because it's expensive, then I wouldn't recommend it.

You need several good DBs to play WRs well imo, to account for the different ways they can attack your defense.