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FL BRONCO
05-14-2015, 08:23 AM
http://wellsreportcontext.com/


Interesting, not thinking this is going to help Tommy's appeal. The popcorn is getting better and better.

Conner13
05-14-2015, 08:34 AM
More crying from NE. It's what they do best.

Well, except for that other thing (cheating). That's what they do best.

So crying is what they do the second best.

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 08:40 AM
The Patriot are holding out hope that legal terminology will save them. Up to and including this statement below they wont offer any clarification for what the "true meaning" of the context or circumstances were. They did address the "kicks" issue with an attempt at at passing it off as a simple kickback they(equipment guys) may/may not be able to give away.

Bottom line is -speculation not explanation- is their defense.

From the Pats response

"McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a ---- balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…

This single text and the reference to “him” and “he,” which the investigators concluded must refer to Mr. Brady, is the lynchpin of the investigator’s conclusion that Mr. Brady was probably “generally aware” of a scheme to release air from the footballs. (pg. 78). There are two levels of speculation here. First is the speculation that the references are in fact a conversation Mr. Jastremski had with Mr. Brady and not with someone else. Second is the speculation that, even if it does refer to a conversation with Mr. Brady, any expressions of concern about Mr. McNally’s level of “stress” had to do with Mr. McNally’s improper deflation of footballs. Neither the sender nor the recipient of this text supported the report’s interpretation. Nor does the language of the text. Nor is there any other corroborative evidence.

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 09:00 AM
Patriots Attorneys did address the "deflator" comment- said it was in reference to the guy trying to lose weight.

Wow...unbelievable

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:03 AM
The Patriot are holding out hope that legal terminology will save them. Up to and including this statement below they wont offer any clarification for what the "true meaning" of the context or circumstances were. They did address the "kicks" issue with an attempt at at passing it off as a simple kickback they(equipment guys) may/may not be able to give away.

Bottom line is -speculation not explanation- is their defense.

From the Pats response

"McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a ---- balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…

This single text and the reference to “him” and “he,” which the investigators concluded must refer to Mr. Brady, is the lynchpin of the investigator’s conclusion that Mr. Brady was probably “generally aware” of a scheme to release air from the footballs. (pg. 78). There are two levels of speculation here. First is the speculation that the references are in fact a conversation Mr. Jastremski had with Mr. Brady and not with someone else. Second is the speculation that, even if it does refer to a conversation with Mr. Brady, any expressions of concern about Mr. McNally’s level of “stress” had to do with Mr. McNally’s improper deflation of footballs. Neither the sender nor the recipient of this text supported the report’s interpretation. Nor does the language of the text. Nor is there any other corroborative evidence.

That's seriously all you got from it?

What about the fact that the first and only time Brady was shown to have any concern about psi level was after the NYJ game when the ball was found to be at 16 psi (way over the limit?) Or the fact that Brady stated he wanted the ball to be at 13 psi?

What about the fact that the Ideal Gas Law has been found to explain the deflation of the balls during the AFCCG? In case you can find it on the site, here is the conclusion of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry: http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

Your response just proves that you guys are not interested in the facts. You're looking for any reason to hate against Brady.

No wonder you guys fell for that high school report from Wells.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:09 AM
Patriots Attorneys did address the "deflator" comment- said it was in reference to the guy trying to lose weight.

Wow...unbelievable

Read the Nov 30 text please.

"Give somebody that jacket" makes no sense in a PSI scheme. It makes sense if a guy is dropping weight.

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 09:09 AM
That's seriously all you got from it?

What about the fact that the first and only time Brady was shown to have any concern about psi level was after the NYJ game when the ball was found to be at 16 psi (way over the limit?) Or the fact that Brady stated he wanted the ball to be at 13 psi?

What about the fact that the Ideal Gas Law has been found to explain the deflation of the balls during the AFCCG? In case you can find it in the report, here is the conclusion of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry: http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

Your response just proves that you guys are not interested in the facts. You're looking for any reason to hate against Brady.

No wonder you guys fell for that high school report from Wells.

Sorry friend-

Your response and the (expected) one from the Patriots is one of "prove it". The Patriots were notified of the investigation and the preliminary findings on Jan 19th. Their response since then and up till now was give as little info and dont clarify.

You tell me why they are taking this stance?

FL BRONCO
05-14-2015, 09:11 AM
That's seriously all you got from it?

What about the fact that the first and only time Brady was shown to have any concern about psi level was after the NYJ game when the ball was found to be at 16 psi (way over the limit?) Or the fact that Brady stated he wanted the ball to be at 13 psi?

What about the fact that the Ideal Gas Law has been found to explain the deflation of the balls during the AFCCG? In case you can find it on the site, here is the conclusion of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry: http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

Your response just proves that you guys are not interested in the facts. You're looking for any reason to hate against Brady.

No wonder you guys fell for that high school report from Wells.

yes sir that explains exactly why it was only the Patriots balls that were deflated, :coffee:

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:13 AM
Sorry friend-

Your response and the (expected) one from the Patriots is one of "prove it". The Patriots were notified of the investigation and the preliminary findings on Jan 19th. Their response since then and up till now was give as little info and dont clarify.

You tell me why they are taking this stance?

Are you going to address either of the things from the site that I brought up? Or are you going to just pretend that the deflation levels can't be explained by the Ideal Gas Law, as has been concluded by a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry?

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:13 AM
yes sir that explains exactly why it was only the Patriots balls that were deflated, :coffee:

Not true. Colts balls deflated as well. Again, you did not read the report.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 09:23 AM
My God, this has gone from a black eye to for the Patriots to a mammoth embarrassment for the organization and their fans.

Sometimes you're better off just taking your medicine and moving on. That's what the Pats should have done.

the0rangecrush
05-14-2015, 09:33 AM
It's all about the free shoes and losing weight. Solid arguments if you ask me.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:43 AM
Also, to anyone still harping on about Brady not handing over his texts, there was no need to. Wells claimed that he only wanted the texts which pertained to the case - i.e. the texts between Brady and McNally and Jastremski. Well, they already had access to McNally and Jastremski phone records and the conversations between Brady and them. There was no new information that would have been gained that would have been relevant to the investigation if Brady had turned his texts over.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:44 AM
Wells' interpretation of the science, coupled with the texts, is obviously different than the Patriots. The Patsies obviously have an agenda here, as well.

However, since the Patriots have a history of stellar behavior, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we?

Science in Wells report? Wells didn't even consider that which gauge was used was important.

The Nobel Laureate is the one who came to the conclusion - not the Pats themselves.

Conner13
05-14-2015, 09:47 AM
Not true. Colts balls deflated as well. Again, you did not read the report.

You are one of many Patriots* fans who have flooded this message board and decided to weep over the "injustice" you feel your team has fallen victim to. I told someone else this -- it's okay to cry. Just don't cry here. Go do that somewhere else. We aren't interested.

Everybody knows that Tommy Boy was trying to circumvent the rules because he believes he's above them. The Patriots* came away from Spygate with a slap on the wrist and the same can be said about this situation. The punishment could've and should've been far worse. Brady shouldn't have been allowed to play at all this year.

Instead of complaining about it, NE fans ought to be counting their blessings, because once again the NFL shows that doing the right thing takes a backseat when dollars are involved. Awfully convenient that the report came out after the draft so that NE wouldn't lose any picks this year. And the four game suspension, which will probably get reduced anyway, is too convenient in that NE's fifth game of the year is against Indy.

The NFL had an opportunity here and they pissed themselves yet again. Shame on them and shame on NE fans who believe their team is somehow the victim in all this.

#87Birdman
05-14-2015, 09:47 AM
Also, to anyone still harping on about Brady not handing over his texts, there was no need to. Wells claimed that he only wanted the texts which pertained to the case - i.e. the texts between Brady and McNally and Jastremski. Well, they already had access to McNally and Jastremski phone records and the conversations between Brady and them. There was no new information that would have been gained that would have been relevant to the investigation if Brady had turned his texts over.

If that was the case than why not just hand them over? Hiding them makes you look guilty and if there was nothing that they already didn't have why not just hand them over. But than again you're a patriot fan and probably think that them cheating never produced an advantage and they just felt like being risk takers breaking the rules.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 09:49 AM
Also, to anyone still harping on about Brady not handing over his texts, there was no need to. Wells claimed that he only wanted the texts which pertained to the case - i.e. the texts between Brady and McNally and Jastremski. Well, they already had access to McNally and Jastremski phone records and the conversations between Brady and them. There was no new information that would have been gained that would have been relevant to the investigation if Brady had turned his texts over.

Keep it up. You're convincing people in droves here.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 09:53 AM
If that was the case than why not just hand them over? Hiding them makes you look guilty and if there was nothing that they already didn't have why not just hand them over. But than again you're a patriot fan and probably think that them cheating never produced an advantage and they just felt like being risk takers breaking the rules.

What do you mean "if that was the case?" Wells stated all he wanted were the texts between McNally and Jaz. Are you saying Wells is a liar? Well, he had Brady's conversation with both men, given that he had access to their phone records. What more could have been gained by having the exact same texts from Brady's phone.

Explain.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:04 AM
By the way, you think the Patriots have been treated unfairly? What about the equipment managers? The Patriots suspended them indefinitely, just because they were trying to lose some weight, apparently. How is that fair?

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:05 AM
Actually it has been presented before. Many times. People like you just chose to ignore it.

Can you send me your previous links to that?

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:14 AM
By the way, Columbia physicist William Zajc says ""I think it's more likely than not that they were manipulated".

Maybe you've heard of this "scientist"?

Since the 1980s, his research has focused on experiments performed at Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL) on Long Island, New York, first at the Alternating Gradient Synchrotron (AGS) and now at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC). He was co-spokesperson of the AGS E859 experiment, which investigated strangeness production in heavy ion collisions, and later spokesperson of the PHENIX experiment at RHIC from 1997 to 2006. PHENIXis a multinational collaboration with over 500 scientists from more than a dozen countries and is one of the two large experiments at RHIC. PHENIX, along with three other RHIC experiments, determined that the relativistic heavy ion collisions at RHIC were successful in creating the quark–gluon plasma (QGP), a state of matter believed to have existed approximately 10 microseconds after the Big Bang. The RHIC experiments also discovered that this matter is in fact strongly interacting and nearly a perfect fluid. Since stepping down after nine years of dedicated service as spokesperson of PHENIX, he continues his research with the experiment, further characterizing the hot, dense matter formed in the collisions.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:15 AM
Can you send me your previous links to that?

Do your own homework. As a courtesy, I'll provide you with one of many examples.

This was one from January: http://www.elsevier.com/connect/can-physics-explain-the-deflation-of-nfl-footballs

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:16 AM
By the way, Columbia physicist William Zajc says ""I think it's more likely than not that they were manipulated".

Maybe you've heard of this "scientist"?

Since the 1980s, his research has focused on experiments performed at Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL) on Long Island, New York, first at the Alternating Gradient Synchrotron (AGS) and now at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC). He was co-spokesperson of the AGS E859 experiment, which investigated strangeness production in heavy ion collisions, and later spokesperson of the PHENIX experiment at RHIC from 1997 to 2006. PHENIXis a multinational collaboration with over 500 scientists from more than a dozen countries and is one of the two large experiments at RHIC. PHENIX, along with three other RHIC experiments, determined that the relativistic heavy ion collisions at RHIC were successful in creating the quark–gluon plasma (QGP), a state of matter believed to have existed approximately 10 microseconds after the Big Bang. The RHIC experiments also discovered that this matter is in fact strongly interacting and nearly a perfect fluid. Since stepping down after nine years of dedicated service as spokesperson of PHENIX, he continues his research with the experiment, further characterizing the hot, dense matter formed in the collisions.

Does he take into account the different gauges used by the refs?

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:17 AM
Matt Chatham ‏@chatham58 9m9 minutes ago
FWIW, there's a long-standing tradition of offseason weight-loss competitions B2WN #Patriots staff, coaches, etc. This part made sense 2 me

Rastic
05-14-2015, 10:26 AM
Matt Chatham ‏@chatham58 9m9 minutes ago
FWIW, there's a long-standing tradition of offseason weight-loss competitions B2WN #Patriots staff, coaches, etc. This part made sense 2 me

Oh my, you'll believe anything...

I'm sure Mr. Deflator was just drinking his protein shake in the bathroom before the game. If you look close at the surveillance video he has was clearly appears to be a milk-mustache.


..... Oh, wait, you said OFFSEASON. Since when is the regular season, from when the texts were sent, considered offseason? I am surprised the Pats**** didn't fire him a long time ago. The guy clearly is confused when the weight competition is supposed to begin and end , or more likely cheated, and was looking for a competitive advantage.

That's probably why he was indefinitely suspended, and rightly so. Can't have staff deflating when they are not supposed to.

CanDB
05-14-2015, 10:27 AM
Matt Chatham ‏@chatham58 9m9 minutes ago
FWIW, there's a long-standing tradition of offseason weight-loss competitions B2WN #Patriots staff, coaches, etc. This part made sense 2 me

OK.....next Pats fan in line gets to try to convince Broncos fans of the innocence of one New England Patriots, who have apparently been much maligned by The League and most fans.

It's the "poor Bob" syndrome. You see, my dear brother was sometimes called that, and I resented it. Why? Because once you fall into that category, you no longer are a real player. You are looking for support instead of making things happen. Now, The Pats should be above that, but in this case, and probably every other case where they have been investigated, they come across as "poor Bobs". Life is so unfair. Instead, they should be setting a good example and being role models. But no, lets get away with it. Lets fight back. Lets do everything that a low life would do.

No class. Definitely no sympathy from the majority of fans, Broncos or otherwise.

And again, why waste your energy here? Must be because you worry about us. No other way to explain it. Unless you are lacking in intelligence, you must be able to comprehend that, no matter what you say, we don't care. You are wasting time.

As for the case, even if your organization gets away with a reduced punishment, primarily because of the power, money and influence Kraft and others have, just stand back and think about things. It's elementary stuff. Brady and others knew what they were doing. We all know it. Why bother?

Terrible role models......if anything it teaches others that, if you are privileged, you can get away with almost anything. Go for it then.

************************************************** ************************************************** **************

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:31 AM
What we also know is that a person that referred to himself as the deflator locked himself in a bathroom with the Patriot's game balls prior to the AFC Championship.

Great. The science still shows that the Pats balls, as well as the Colts balls, deflated to an amount as predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:32 AM
You're right. Chatham's credibility should be the deciding factor. After all, he wouldn't be biased, since he never played for New England.

He played for the Jets too. Clearly this should be taken into consideration as well, as it must mean that he hates his former rival. Right?

BTW, no, his statement shouldn't be the deciding factor. Scientific analysis should be.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:32 AM
Great. The science still shows that the Pats balls, as well as the Colts balls, deflated to an amount as predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

According to one scientist. Another one says something else.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:34 AM
I have no idea. Being a scientist, I suspect he failed to take everything into account. Science is at the mercy of all sorts of variables, right? "Imperfect", you might say?

Ok, I thought so. The Nobel Laureate in the link I previously posted did not fail to take that into consideration.

broncoslover115
05-14-2015, 10:35 AM
OMG, can you Patriot fans just stop. Your idolatry worship is just ridiculous.

The Patriots brought this on themselves. All Brady had to say was I told my equipment guys how I like my footballs prepared. They went a little overboard. We accept responsibility for it and it will never happen again. End of story. $25,000 fine, no Wells Report, no suspension, no fine, no loss of draft picks, and we all move on.

But that’s not the Patriot Way. They demanded apologies, they got arrogant, they got smug and entitled and did what they usually do…deny, deny and accuse everyone else but themselves. Hence, the investigation, which by the way, they supported and welcomed until they didn’t like the results.

The Patriots are the ones that have made this bigger than it had to be. The Patriots made this what it is right now. Had they for once... just once....accepted responsibility for something, which is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.....NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING. NONE OF IT.

And, if they truly believed that they didn’t do anything wrong and the balls were deflated due to the science of the gas law, and the "Deflator" nickname was about weight loss (cough, cough) WHY WERE THE EQUIPMENT GUYS SUSPENDED WITHOUT PAY?

I mean really, we're supposed to now believe those texts were in jest and the nickname was about weight loss? This is soooo out of the realm of believability.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:35 AM
According to one scientist. Another one says something else.

The one that claims different doesn't even acknowledge the two different gauges. Did you read the link at all in order to see why which gauge was used is critical?

Thors Hammer
05-14-2015, 10:35 AM
Great. The science still shows that the Pats balls, as well as the Colts balls, deflated to an amount as predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

There's also numerous texts that tell a different story.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:36 AM
OMG, can you Patriot fans just stop. Your idolatry worship is just ridiculous.

The Patriots brought this on themselves. All Brady had to say was I told my equipment guys how I like my footballs prepared. They went a little overboard. We accept responsibility for it and it will never happen again. End of story. $25,000 fine, no Wells Report, no suspension, no fine, no loss of draft picks, and we all move on.

But that’s not the Patriot Way. They demanded apologies, they got arrogant, they got smug and entitled and did what they usually do…deny, deny and accuse everyone else but themselves. Hence, the investigation, which by the way, they supported and welcomed until they didn’t like the results.

The Patriots are the ones that have made this bigger than it had to be. The Patriots made this what it is right now. Had they for once... just once....accepted responsibility for something, which is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.....NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING. NONE OF IT.

And, if they truly believed that they didn’t do anything wrong and the balls were deflated due to the science of the gas law, and the "Deflator" nickname was about weight loss (cough, cough) WHY WERE THE EQUIPMENT GUYS SUSPENDED WITHOUT PAY?

I mean really, we're supposed to now believe those texts were in jest and the nickname was about weight loss? This is soooo out of the realm of believability.

Explain the Nov 30 text: "deflate and give somebody else that jacket." How is this in any way related to footballs and psi?

#87Birdman
05-14-2015, 10:37 AM
Ok, I thought so. The Nobel Laureate in the link I previously posted did not fail to take that into consideration.

so your scientist accounted for every variable if not it isn't worth using...

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:37 AM
The one that claims different doesn't even acknowledge the two different gauges. Did you read the link at all in order to see why which gauge was used is critical?

So you're saying that science is sometimes imperfect. Lots of variables, obviously.

I agree.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:37 AM
There's also numerous texts that tell a different story.

You have no idea what story they're telling.

Take a step back and listen to what you are saying. You are trying to interpret texts without knowing the context or tone, as opposed to just focusing on the concrete evidence as laid out by the Ideal Gas Law.

Rastic
05-14-2015, 10:39 AM
Explain the Nov 30 text: "deflate and give somebody else that jacket." How is this in any way related to footballs and psi?

Isn't that basing a decision on circumstantial evidence that contradicts everything else? Shame on you for believing in circumstantial evidence. :coffee:

- side note, congrats on getting above 20. This new account of yours might set a new post record for you. :thumb:

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:40 AM
So you're saying that science is sometimes imperfect. Lots of variables, obviously.

I agree.

You're referring to something else entirely. There is always margin of error. Completely ignoring the fact that there are two gauges is different. If the higher reading gauge was used, as Walt Anderson's best recollection, then the Ideal Gas Law exonerates the Pats.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:42 AM
so your scientist accounted for every variable if not it isn't worth using...

The difference in reading between the two gauges is 0.4 psi, which is significant. Much higher than the the margin of error due to variable change.

Thors Hammer
05-14-2015, 10:42 AM
You have no idea what story they're telling.

Take a step back and listen to what you are saying. You are trying to interpret texts without knowing the context or tone, as opposed to just focusing on the concrete evidence as laid out by the Ideal Gas Law.

No, we'll just focus on a man who calls himself the deflator, receiving numerous texts about Tom Brady whining about ball PSI being too much, locking himself in a bathroom with the Patriots game balls. When the ball PSI was checked at halftime, they weren't regulation.

You can come up with every excuse you want, the simple answer is there.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:45 AM
Do your own homework. As a courtesy, I'll provide you with one of many examples.

This was one from January: http://www.elsevier.com/connect/can-physics-explain-the-deflation-of-nfl-footballs


Hey, I don't see anything about 2 different gauges in this link that you provided.

I thought the "two different gauges" was the key to the whole thing? Otherwise, it's just one scientists word against another, right?

Rastic
05-14-2015, 10:45 AM
You're referring to something else entirely. There is always margin of error. Completely ignoring the fact that there are two gauges is different. If the higher reading gauge was used, as Walt Anderson's best recollection, then the Ideal Gas Law exonerates the Pats.

Haha, "two guages is different."

You can quote a Nobel laureate but you, sir, shall never be one.

Scientific laws are only as good as the data and methods used to apply them. Enough testing has proven that fact if nothing else, hence so many respectable individuals reaching different results.

The only perfect test would be at Gillette stadium during similar weather, conditions, and the same time of day - real conditions, not lab conditions.

The point is if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's obviously just trying to lose weight.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:46 AM
No, we'll just focus on a man who calls himself the deflator, receiving numerous texts about Tom Brady whining about ball PSI being too much, locking himself in a bathroom with the Patriots game balls. When the ball PSI was checked at halftime, they weren't regulation.

You can come up with every excuse you want, the simple answer is there.

He was whining about psi after the ball was found to be 16 psi (way over the allowable range) in the NYJ game. Why is that a sign of cheating?

Bronco51
05-14-2015, 10:47 AM
What about this scientist's conclusion? From Boston I might add

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/05/06/physics-professor-deflategate-report-science-holds/T2HqI3vFVivr9grXOD2VEI/story.html

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:48 AM
You're referring to something else entirely. There is always margin of error. Completely ignoring the fact that there are two gauges is different. If the higher reading gauge was used, as Walt Anderson's best recollection, then the Ideal Gas Law exonerates the Pats.

At best, this would make the evidence inconclusive. However, when coupled with the other evidence (texts), it's pretty damning at the very least.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:49 AM
Haha, "two guages is different."

You can quote a Nobel laureate but you, sir, shall never be one.

Scientific laws are only as good as the data and methods used to apply them. Enough testing has proven that fact if nothing else, hence so many respectable individuals reaching different results.

The only perfect test would be at Gillette stadium during similar weather, conditions, and the same time of day - real conditions, not lab conditions.

The point is if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's obviously just trying to lose weight.

I wasn't referring to the two gauges in that sentence - I was referring to the fact that they were different. The "fact" that they were different is singular. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with the grammar. Yes, I did make a typo when I typed gauges - even though I've spelled it correctly in every other post. You aren't very bright, are you?

Different individuals reached different results because they did not take into account which gauge was used. There is always margin of error, but 0.4 psi difference is much larger than that.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:54 AM
FORMER DOLPHINS OL COACH JIM TURNER ON TED WELLS: ‘INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR, MY [EXPLETIVE]’
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/14/former-dolphins-ol-coach-jim-turner-on-ted-wells-independent-investigator-my-expletive/

I suppose he is biased in favor of the Pats as well? (despite coaching for a division rival)

Rastic
05-14-2015, 10:54 AM
I wasn't referring to the two gauges in that sentence - I was referring to the fact that they were different. The "fact" that they were different is singular. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with the grammar. Yes, I did make a typo when I typed gauges - even though I've spelled it correctly in every other post. You aren't very bright, are you?

Different individuals reached different results because they did not take into account which gauge was used. There is always margin of error, but 0.4 psi difference is much larger than that.

yeah, except that each gauge was consistent within its own margins, so... are you saying deflator was using the guages to measure his weight?

What about jacket now? "is this some kind of radical new therapy"

http://criticalmassesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bob5.jpg

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:56 AM
With regard to the 2 different gauges, and science:

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/american-football/new-england-patriots/news/investigator-it-doesnt-matter-which-gauge-was-used_222496.html


"The question of which gauge was used by Walt Anderson before the game — it just doesn't affect any of the ultimate conclusions," Reisner told reporters.

"The difference in the pressure drops between the two teams was found to be statistically significant regardless of the gauge used.

"It really doesn't matter because regardless of which gauges were used, the scientific consultants addressed all the permutations in the analysis."

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 10:58 AM
yeah, except that each gauge was consistent within its own margins, so... are you saying deflator was using the guages to measure his weight?

What about jacket now? "is this some kind of radical new therapy"

http://criticalmassesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bob5.jpg

The gauge that Walt Anderson can best remember was used was the one with the higher reading. If indeed that is the one that was used, then the science points to the Pats balls being within 12.5-13.5 psi at the started of the game, which is within the rules.

Let me guess, you didn't actually read the Wells report OR the report from the Nobel Laureate I linked earlier.

Rastic
05-14-2015, 10:59 AM
FORMER DOLPHINS OL COACH JIM TURNER ON TED WELLS: ‘INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR, MY [EXPLETIVE]’
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/14/former-dolphins-ol-coach-jim-turner-on-ted-wells-independent-investigator-my-expletive/

I suppose he is biased in favor of the Pats as well? (despite coaching for a division rival)

Bwhahaha, sure he unbiased, after getting busted in an investigation led by Wells during the whole Incognito incident.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24443442/dolphins-line-coach-jim-turner-could-face-stern-punishment

Yeah, there's stalwart character for sure.

NLPDE, you fail again. How about you try next time. ;)

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 10:59 AM
FORMER DOLPHINS OL COACH JIM TURNER ON TED WELLS: ‘INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR, MY [EXPLETIVE]’
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/14/former-dolphins-ol-coach-jim-turner-on-ted-wells-independent-investigator-my-expletive/

I suppose he is biased in favor of the Pats as well? (despite coaching for a division rival)

It's pretty apparent that he's anti-Wells, because of the Jonathan Martin thing.

In this instance, "anti-Wells" = "pro-Pats.

So, yeah.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:00 AM
With regard to the 2 different gauges, and science:

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/american-football/new-england-patriots/news/investigator-it-doesnt-matter-which-gauge-was-used_222496.html

This was proven to not be the case in a test done by a Nobel Laureate in the link I presented earlier. It's one of the reasons why the "science" in the Wells report is highly questionable.

Bronco51
05-14-2015, 11:05 AM
This was proven to not be the case in a test done by a Nobel Laureate in the link I presented earlier. It's one of the reasons why the "science" in the Wells report is highly questionable.

What about this scientist?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/05/06/physics-professor-deflategate-report-science-holds/T2HqI3vFVivr9grXOD2VEI/story.html

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 11:07 AM
This was proven to not be the case in a test done by a Nobel Laureate in the link I presented earlier. It's one of the reasons why the "science" in the Wells report is highly questionable.

So we have scientists that disagree.

However, the "Patriots" scientist should obviously be assumed to be correct, right?

Are you done yet?

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 11:09 AM
Hey, maybe those equipment managers who were trying to lose weight should have used 2 different scales! Maybe one scale would have told them that they didn't need to deflate themselves, and they would have been scientifically in shape!

Bronco51
05-14-2015, 11:11 AM
Hey, maybe those equipment managers who were trying to lose weight should have used 2 different scales! Maybe one scale would have told them that they didn't need to deflate themselves, and they would have been scientifically in shape!

Nah, they should have weighed themselves in different temperatures. That would definitely make all the difference.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:17 AM
What about this scientist?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/05/06/physics-professor-deflategate-report-science-holds/T2HqI3vFVivr9grXOD2VEI/story.html

Pretty easy refutation. Even you can follow along.


The major uncertainty in the Wells Report scientific analysis lies in the pregame measurement of ball pressures: there were two gauges that differ by approximately 0.4 psi, it is not certain which was used in the pregame measurement, and the data were not recorded. If the pregame measurement of Patriots balls was made with the gauge that gives the higher number (high gauge) – as was the Official’s best recollection – then when you compare the Patriots ball pressures at halftime using the same gauge, you observe that the average Patriots ball pressure drop (1.0 psi) falls precisely in the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law (1.0 to 1.2 psi) for the temperature differences the balls were thought to experience on game day. In more detail, 8 out of 11 Patriots balls fall within that predicted range, and the three with a larger drop (by 0.1, 0.3 and 0.4 psi) can be explained by measurement error (see below). Further, if the pregame measurements for Colts balls were made with the other (low) gauge then the Colts balls dropped 0.7 psi (only 4 Colts balls were measured at halftime). The smaller drop by 0.3 psi of the Colts balls can have a scientific explanation – they were measured at halftime after the 11 Patriots balls and thus had more time to warm up and increase pressure. Is it possible that the same Official could use one gauge for the Patriots and the other for the Colts measurements? Not only is this possible but it is exactly what happened at halftime. The Wells Report describes a detailed procedure in which each Official used one gauge to measure pressures of 11 Patriots balls first then 4 Colts balls. Only on subsequent data analysis did it become evident that the gauges were inadvertently switched in between measuring the team balls. It is very easy to understand how this could happen because the gauges look almost identical. This could also have occurred for the pregame measurements because the Official who made those measurements owned both gauges and brought them to the stadium. Imagine the Official has a bunch of balls from each of two teams that he has to measure and two gauges that are almost identical, so much so that they were interchanged during the rigid protocol of recording described for halftime.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

Thors Hammer
05-14-2015, 11:19 AM
Pretty easy refutation. Even you can follow along.



http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

There's an even easier explanation, the Pats had their equipment manager let air out of the balls.

Bronco51
05-14-2015, 11:21 AM
Pretty easy refutation. Even you can follow along.



http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/


“A lot of the text message stuff, that looks pretty damning to me,” Schmaltz says. ‘The science I don’t think is a slam dunk in terms of convicting them, but it also looks much more likely (than not) this was done just based on the science.”

And here is what the real world thinks. Even you should be able to use science AND common sense. Or are you the
"I reject your reality for my own" kind of guys?

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 11:40 AM
I wonder what the Scientific data shows the odds would be that-

The Colts would pull this specific infraction out of a hat, accuse the Patriots, happen to be right, happen to find a guy who handles the balls for the Patriots-who happens to call himself the "deflator"?

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 11:44 AM
No, it's because it's the only study that considered the actual equipment utilized in measuring psi. Are you really this unintelligent, or are you being purposely obtuse because you realize you've been wrong all along? As I said, being a Broncos fan is damning evidence in favor of you being grossly unintelligent.

No it isn't. You saying this repeatedly doesn't make it true.






http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/american...ed_222496.html

"The question of which gauge was used by Walt Anderson before the game — it just doesn't affect any of the ultimate conclusions," Reisner told reporters.

"The difference in the pressure drops between the two teams was found to be statistically significant regardless of the gauge used.

"It really doesn't matter because regardless of which gauges were used, the scientific consultants addressed all the permutations in the analysis."

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:44 AM
I'd expect no less from a New England fan than to ignore a mountain of actual evidence.

The only actual evidence shows that the balls for both teams deflated naturally through the course of the game.

underrated29
05-14-2015, 11:44 AM
Pats cult guy:

What is the science behind the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom? What is the science for his 32 seconds in there? What is the science behind him stating "I set the balls down to the left and used the Urinal to the right" When there is no Urinal to the right. What is the science behind that.

Please.....Take all the time you need. I would love to see you provide another very scientific analysis of such.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:45 AM
Pats cult guy:

What is the science behind the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom? What is the science for his 32 seconds in there? What is the science behind him stating "I set the balls down to the left and used the Urinal to the right" When there is no Urinal to the right. What is the science behind that.

Please.....Take all the time you need. I would love to see you provide another very scientific analysis of such.

There is nothing against the rules in regards to what he did. All of the officials saw him going in with the balls and did not prevent him in any way. Clearly they did not think there was anything wrong with what he did.

Thors Hammer
05-14-2015, 11:47 AM
The only actual evidence shows that the balls for both teams deflated naturally through the course of the game.

So is Andrew Luck suspended and the Colts organization losing draft picks too?

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 11:48 AM
No, it's because it's the only study that considered the actual equipment utilized in measuring psi. Are you really this unintelligent, or are you being purposely obtuse because you realize you've been wrong all along? As I said, being a Broncos fan is damning evidence in favor of you being grossly unintelligent.

You seem fixated on the legal and scientific beliefs that support your team, but dont ignore the simple thing that got us to this point....

The Colts/Pats game is nothing more than the day they got caught. The severe penalties/fines/suspensions tell the real story. Just like Spygate, the huge and historic fine wasnt for a simple Sept game against the Jets....it was for a history of doing it.

underrated29
05-14-2015, 11:48 AM
Nope. NO dodging.

Why would he lie about taking a piss in a bathroom with no pisser?

Unless......Gasp.....he went in there to deflate the balls. Cuz you know. He did.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:49 AM
So is Andrew Luck suspended and the Colts organization losing draft picks too?

No, the balls started at different psi levels before the game, but both were within the allowable range. Do you need me to draw you a diagram?

underrated29
05-14-2015, 11:50 AM
No, the balls started at different psi levels before the game, but both were within the allowable range. Do you need me to draw you a diagram?



lol, yes please do.

Don't leave off the asterisk!

Peanut
05-14-2015, 11:51 AM
Let's keep smack in the Smack forum, please.


FYI. This isn't the Smack forum. Just in case any of the Pats fans get lost.

Thanks.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:51 AM
Nope. NO dodging.

Why would he lie about taking a piss in a bathroom with no pisser?

Unless......Gasp.....he went in there to deflate the balls. Cuz you know. He did.

For the same reason everyone goes into the bathroom. The officials didn't think anything of it. It was nothing out of the ordinary in their views.

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 11:53 AM
So is Andrew Luck suspended

Might as well be. The Patriots suspended their equipment managers for trying to stay in shape.

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 11:53 AM
Ted Wells was clearly independent:

From Patriots counsel letter to Pash:

We learned last night from Ted that the issue of how League personnel handled the pursuit of the low psi issues, including whether there were inappropriate prejudgments and unfounded presumptions of wrongdoing, selective leaks of information and misinformation, failure to correct obviously misreported information, and the like, are not part of what the Paul Weiss firm has been asked to investigate.

underrated29
05-14-2015, 11:53 AM
Nope. NO dodging.

Why would he lie about taking a piss in a bathroom with no pisser?

Unless......Gasp.....he went in there to deflate the balls. Cuz you know. He did.


For the same reason everyone goes into the bathroom. The officials didn't think anything of it. It was nothing out of the ordinary in their views.




ERRRRGHHHHHHHHH!!!


I said no dodging.


Please try again. And use the quote from above. Id help you shovel but bradys doing enough digging to help you out.

underrated29
05-14-2015, 11:56 AM
Pats cult guy:

What is the science behind the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom? What is the science for his 32 seconds in there? What is the science behind him stating "I set the balls down to the left and used the Urinal to the right" When there is no Urinal to the right. What is the science behind that.

Please.....Take all the time you need. I would love to see you provide another very scientific analysis of such.



Here is the quote, in case you need it.....

underrated29
05-14-2015, 12:01 PM
Im still waiting....

underrated29
05-14-2015, 12:02 PM
Here is the fact chief. "You are a fan of a team with * next to every single title. I can understand your anger about it. But they cheated in the past, cheated now, and will undoubtedly cheat into the future. So scream to the heavens, lil Pats fan. Your tears are delicious"

That about sums it up from Archer

underrated29
05-14-2015, 12:07 PM
See my above post in regards to yours. I knew you were going to post it so I beat you to the punch. So blind.


So now you want to tell me that a man who was worked that stadium for what? 37 years now? Does not know which side the Urinal is on? After all this time......

So what did he use then? The sink? The floor? The pats logo on the wall?

Let me know when you are done spinning. You have to be severely dizzy by now. Probably why you and pats fans are so blind to it all. Bradys lil minions. So cute.

atwaterandstir
05-14-2015, 12:10 PM
Jastremski tells McNally..... "I have a big needle for U this week".

Im surprised the Patriots didnt take this opportunity to claim the needle was in reference to drug use and that is why they were suspended.

the0rangecrush
05-14-2015, 12:13 PM
So Roderick Mackinnon the "Independent" scuentist, turns out to have connections to Kraft.

Science board of Flex Pharma
http://t.co/yCiThbHNIW

Investor list:
http://t.co/ZgsJ533Iu8

So there's that

FL BRONCO
05-14-2015, 12:14 PM
Not true. Colts balls deflated as well. Again, you did not read the report.

Maybe you should read the report

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2073728-ted-wells-report-deflategate.html

There is a copy of it. I forget exactly what page it is on but I believe late 60 or early 70 pages it lists ball test results. All the Colts balls, I repeat all the Colts balls that were tested were above 12 psi. Not 1 of the Patriots balls were so you can scrap that arguement cause the physics (chemistry) applies the same to both teams. Either some mysterious force that only affected NE footballs came into play or somebody took the air out.:confused:I wonder which one it was. :duh:thats it, it was some mysterious force that knew the difference between NE balls vs Colts and it was sent here just to mess with Patriot fans and Tommy Boy:brick:

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 12:16 PM
Maybe you should read the report

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2073728-ted-wells-report-deflategate.html

There is a copy of it. I forget exactly what page it is on but I believe late 60 or early 70 pages it lists ball test results. All the Colts balls, I repeat all the Colts balls that were tested were above 12 psi. Not 1 of the Patriots balls were so you can scrap that arguement cause the physics (chemistry) applies the same to both teams. Either some mysterious force that only affected NE footballs came into play or somebody took the air out.:confused:I wonder which one it was. :duh:thats it, it was some mysterious force that new the difference between NE balls vs Colts and it was sent here just to mess with Patriot fans and Tommy Boy:brick:

That they didn't start at the same psi, would be the reason. Pats balls were likely towards the lower part of the allowable range. Also, they were measured with different gauges, as mentioned in the Wells report.

CanDB
05-14-2015, 12:19 PM
I love that Michael Silver of NFL Network says that the Pats are insulting our intelligence with their latest on diets and deflators.

I mean really, does any of this remind you of the compulsive liar, or the kid in school who keeps playing with the facts.....except these are supposedly the smartest guys in the room.

FL BRONCO
05-14-2015, 12:21 PM
That they didn't start at the same psi, would be the reason. Pats balls were likely towards the lower part of the allowable range. Also, they were measured with different gauges, as mentioned in the Wells report.

Its an air guage, it aint rocket science here man. Patriot fans make me realize that common sense is an oxymoron


and by the way that is the direct opposite of your claim in the previous post, the Colts balls were not deflate and I will give you your own advice, read the report before you make claims opposite of what it says

NLPDE
05-14-2015, 12:24 PM
Its an air guage, it aint rocket science here man. Patriot fans make me realize that common sense is and oxymoron

They're two different gauges that differ by 0.4 psi in measurement, "man." No, it's not rocket science, which is why it's baffling that you guys are having so much trouble with this.

#87Birdman
05-14-2015, 12:26 PM
They're two different gauges that differ by 0.4 psi in measurement, "man." No, it's not rocket science, which is why it's baffling that you guys are having so much trouble with this.

You are having trouble with a guy going into a bathroom and using an urinal that didn't exist and you believe he used one.

#87Birdman
05-14-2015, 12:27 PM
Lie about what? We have the exact same information about what happened. What we do know is that the officials saw nothing wrong with what he did. That's good enough for me, as it means that it likely happens quite a bit. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Nothing out of the ordinary that a guy went and used something that didn't exist... Yeah that is perfectly normal :confused:

Peanut
05-14-2015, 12:30 PM
Let's keep smack in the Smack forum, please.


FYI. This isn't the Smack forum. Just in case any of the Pats fans get lost.

Thanks.

Closed for cleaning.



Okay. That was fun.

I repeat. This is not the Smack forum.

Did I say it loud enough this time?

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 01:37 PM
let the Deflate-hate begin!

jk

I haven't read much of that Pats retort, but I wonder if it's ground for any kind of extended punishment. The constant defiance is becoming unbecoming

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 01:42 PM
» The lawyers pick on the phrase that Brady was "generally aware" of wrongdoing.

"The phrasing of this conclusion reflects what a reach it was. Unable to conclude that Mr. Brady had knowledge of, let alone directed, any improper activities, the best the report comes up with is the phrase 'generally aware.' As noted above, there is simply no evidentiary basis for this conclusion, let alone for the conclusion that there were any underlying inappropriate activities. The texts that form the heart of this report show two persons with quite uninhibited texting history -- and yet NOT A SINGLE TEXT REFERS TO DEFLATING FOOTBALLS TO A LEVEL BELOW REGULATION, TO DEFLATING FOOTBALLS AFTER THE REFEREE'S INSPECTION, OR TO ANY DIRECTIONS FROM MR. BRADY -- OR EVEN ANY BELIEF THAT TOM BRADY WOULD PREFER TO USE BELOW REGULATION FOOTBALLS."

But Tom never gave up his texts. We're to just take YOUR word for it?

As for 'belief that tom brady would prefer to use below reg footballs' ..... he ALREADY ADMITTED THAT years previous

Socnorb11
05-14-2015, 01:48 PM
They're two different gauges that differ by 0.4 psi in measurement, "man." No, it's not rocket science, which is why it's baffling that you guys are having so much trouble with this.

We're not having trouble with it. We're saying it doesn't matter enough to be a deciding factor, even if you found a scientist that disagrees with other scientists.

broncolee
05-14-2015, 03:08 PM
But Tom never gave up his texts. We're to just take YOUR word for it?

As for 'belief that tom brady would prefer to use below reg footballs' ..... he ALREADY ADMITTED THAT years previous

Ted Wells did have access to the phones of McNally and Jastremski. Brady's part of the conversations should have been on those phones. That being said, any request to deflate balls below regs could have been verbal.

If the NFL is satisfied satisfied that the balls were intentionally deflated below regs, they have no choice but to conclude that Brady was aware of it and approved of it because no one in the organization is going to mess with the balls without his approval.

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 03:13 PM
Can't even listen to TheDrive today. Big Al is in love with another rival QB. I thought QB Rivers was his boo - but looks like he's got a soft spot for Shady Brady too

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 03:29 PM
I just opened up the Pats new retort page (http://wellsreportcontext.com/) and clicked on one of the main links at the top called Letter from D. Gardi (http://wellsreportcontext.com/nfl-letter-to-patriots/)

I just noticed that the vice pres starts by stating some pertinent rules and one stood out to me.


(1) All game footballs must be prepared properly and consistently for use on game day, especially to the satisfaction of quarterbacks. No player or any other person is permitted to alter the fundamental structure or surface characteristics of the footballs to be used in a game.

Now, as far as I've heard during all this deflategate talk, ALL QB's have guys who do ALL the work to the ball - it's not the QB alone - and no one else. What gives? Everyone in the league just ignoring that rule? Or can it be interpreted differently

But this is the important one as it pertains to Deflategate...


Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equip managers, ball boys, coaches , is allowed to alter the football in adny way. If anyone alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible if appropriate, the head coach, or other club personnel will be subject to discipline including but not limited to a fine of 25000

So after checking the balls at half time, all the Colts balls were within the proper range psi on at least ONE of the gauges. The Pats balls, not so much. In fact one of the balls, it says, tested 10.1 - that's not even close.

Then lastly it says, we appreciate your club's full cooperation in this matter. So much for that

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:33 PM
That's seriously all you got from it?

What about the fact that the first and only time Brady was shown to have any concern about psi level was after the NYJ game when the ball was found to be at 16 psi (way over the limit?) Or the fact that Brady stated he wanted the ball to be at 13 psi?

What about the fact that the Ideal Gas Law has been found to explain the deflation of the balls during the AFCCG? In case you can find it on the site, here is the conclusion of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry: http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

Your response just proves that you guys are not interested in the facts. You're looking for any reason to hate against Brady.

No wonder you guys fell for that high school report from Wells.

There is a simple solution to this problem for NE.

Dont cheat.

Oh wait, too late..

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 03:44 PM
That's seriously all you got from it?

What about the fact that the first and only time Brady was shown to have any concern about psi level was after the NYJ game when the ball was found to be at 16 psi (way over the limit?) Or the fact that Brady stated he wanted the ball to be at 13 psi?

.

you're calling that fact? ..... it's nothing more than what an equipment manager said in defense of Brady coming down on him for not getting the balls low enough PSI.

Fact? No...... Heresay by a biased source ... indeed

Plus to say that's the first time Brady has ever been heard talking about LIKING UNDERINFLATED balls is wrong too

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:45 PM
Also, to anyone still harping on about Brady not handing over his texts, there was no need to. Wells claimed that he only wanted the texts which pertained to the case - i.e. the texts between Brady and McNally and Jastremski. Well, they already had access to McNally and Jastremski phone records and the conversations between Brady and them. There was no new information that would have been gained that would have been relevant to the investigation if Brady had turned his texts over.

fact) Brady refused to cooperate
fact) the TEAM refused to cooperate (IE Belicheat)

Spin it how you want. Those are facts. Cant change them, no matter how badly you want, or how loudly you protest their existence.

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:48 PM
By the way, you think the Patriots have been treated unfairly? What about the equipment managers? The Patriots suspended them indefinitely, just because they were trying to lose some weight, apparently. How is that fair?

Very good question. Goes well with...

It the balls being underinflated isnt that big a deal, WHY DO IT?

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:50 PM
Matt Chatham ‏@chatham58 9m9 minutes ago
FWIW, there's a long-standing tradition of offseason weight-loss competitions B2WN #Patriots staff, coaches, etc. This part made sense 2 me

So you believe those two were fired for weight loss reasons?

SERIOUSLY?

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:54 PM
You have no idea what story they're telling.

Take a step back and listen to what you are saying. You are trying to interpret texts without knowing the context or tone, as opposed to just focusing on the concrete evidence as laid out by the Ideal Gas Law.

LOL rich.

Take a step back, and actually pay attention to what YOU are saying.

After all, you're saying to patriot employees of many years were fired, over weight loss.

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:57 PM
No, we'll just focus on a man who calls himself the deflator, receiving numerous texts about Tom Brady whining about ball PSI being too much, locking himself in a bathroom with the Patriots game balls. When the ball PSI was checked at halftime, they weren't regulation.

You can come up with every excuse you want, the simple answer is there.

And everyone knows it.

Personally I think thats the real rub with the patriots organization. They know no one outside of their own fans is going to believe any of this steaming pile of excrement they are shoveling as a "the real story"

They've been repeatedly caught, and just cant stand the idea that everyone knows what a bunch of cheating lowlifes they are, led by Billy.

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 03:59 PM
FORMER DOLPHINS OL COACH JIM TURNER ON TED WELLS: ‘INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR, MY [EXPLETIVE]’
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/14/former-dolphins-ol-coach-jim-turner-on-ted-wells-independent-investigator-my-expletive/

I suppose he is biased in favor of the Pats as well? (despite coaching for a division rival)

Ok, answer this one.

What did the NFL have to gain by setting up the patriots?

Assassin27
05-14-2015, 04:00 PM
Patriots Attorneys did address the "deflator" comment- said it was in reference to the guy trying to lose weight.

Wow...unbelievable ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unbelievable is right!!!!!! The hole just got a lot deeper with that statement!!!!!

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 04:00 PM
Bwhahaha, sure he unbiased, after getting busted in an investigation led by Wells during the whole Incognito incident.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24443442/dolphins-line-coach-jim-turner-could-face-stern-punishment

Yeah, there's stalwart character for sure.

NLPDE, you fail again. How about you try next time. ;)

Oh I'm sure he will.

And it will be by another new account.

CanDB
05-14-2015, 04:49 PM
My history with The Pats.....

For a number of years, I actually didn't mind them. I even pulled for them over Oakland when they lucked out with The Tuck rule. In hindsight, I wish I had been disappointed that day.

Spygate was proof of how sneaky they were. Follow up issues came and went, and though they were seldom put to task, I began to realize this organization was corrupt.

And now Deflategate. No matter what the verdict is, this is enough for me to never, ever trust them, or believe anything they say. They are making a joke out of "credibility" and "honesty". They are going to new heights of pathetic defense. Asterisks no longer are enough for what they have accomplished.

And for as long as I live......The Deflator and weight loss will always make me laugh.

broncoslover115
05-14-2015, 04:50 PM
So now some of the Boston sports media are ragging on Manning for not coming out and supporting Brady.

Really? First off, Manning is usually not one to give the media much of anything. He can say a whole lot while not saying anything. But why should Manning come out and support Brady?

Please, they hate Manning. And now they want him to put himself on the line for Brady?

:rolleyes:

Garfield
05-14-2015, 05:47 PM
My history with The Pats.....

For a number of years, I actually didn't mind them. I even pulled for them over Oakland when they lucked out with The Tuck rule. In hindsight, I wish I had been disappointed that day.

Spygate was proof of how sneaky they were. Follow up issues came and went, and though they were seldom put to task, I began to realize this organization was corrupt.

And now Deflategate. No matter what the verdict is, this is enough for me to never, ever trust them, or believe anything they say. They are making a joke out of "credibility" and "honesty". They are going to new heights of pathetic defense. Asterisks no longer are enough for what they have accomplished.

And for as long as I live......The Deflator and weight loss will always make me laugh.

Pretty sure they loved Arron Hernandez for all the year he played there.

I'll bet that some of these morons were talking about how he was innocent also.

Fan isn short for fanatics. They will never believe Tom terrific is guilty of anything besides having to throw those defaults balls and even then he was unaware they were not legal.

Rastic
05-14-2015, 06:01 PM
So now some of the Boston sports media are ragging on Manning for not coming out and supporting Brady.

Really? First off, Manning is usually not one to give the media much of anything. He can say a whole lot while not saying anything. But why should Manning come out and support Brady?

Please, they hate Manning. And now they want him to put himself on the line for Brady?

:rolleyes:
I think he was posting here much of the early afternoon.

CoryWinget81
05-14-2015, 06:50 PM
If no one was doing anything wrong, why did the ball guys get suspended?

/thread

broncoslover115
05-14-2015, 07:11 PM
If no one was doing anything wrong, why did the ball guys get suspended?

/thread

Exactly!! They can't explain that one away, now can they?

dizzolve
05-14-2015, 08:03 PM
<<<< c r i c k e t s >>>>

bgpatsfan
05-14-2015, 09:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

Looks like the Wells report is slowly unspiraling like we knew it would

MH Stampede
05-14-2015, 09:50 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

Looks like the Wells report is slowly unspiraling like we knew it would

Thats about as thin as The Deflator was only talking about losing weight months in advance.

broncoslover115
05-15-2015, 05:07 AM
Goodell to hear Brady's appeal himself. This is not going to go well. I'm surprised by this. Wonder which way he will go.

#87Birdman
05-15-2015, 06:45 AM
Goodell to hear Brady's appeal himself. This is not going to go well. I'm surprised by this. Wonder which way he will go.

Isn't Kraft one of the small number of owners who sets his Salary. If so isn't that a conflict of Interest? Than again we are dealing with the Pats who don't follow the rules anyways.

Thors Hammer
05-15-2015, 06:49 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

Looks like the Wells report is slowly unspiraling like we knew it would

Just like when the Colts were going to have egg all over their face when the Well's report was released?

FL BRONCO
05-15-2015, 10:26 AM
If no one was doing anything wrong, why did the ball guys get suspended?

/thread

Its pretty convenient they will be no where to be found by the media isn't it.

broncoslover115
05-15-2015, 10:42 AM
Its pretty convenient they will be no where to be found by the media isn't it.

Condo in the Bahamas perhaps - all paid up as well? New bank account too?

broncoslover115
05-15-2015, 10:45 AM
So the letter sent by the NFLPA states the Troy Vincent had no right/purview to give punishment as he is only charged with giving suspensions related to unsportsmanlike conduct on the field and another category but it has to be on the field- not this.

This is going to get really, really ugly.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492854/article/nflpa-releases-appeal-letter

Rastic
05-15-2015, 11:40 AM
Condo in the Bahamas perhaps - all paid up as well? New bank account too?

Well Hernandez isn't available to fix their problems anymore so on to plan B I guess.

Rastic
05-15-2015, 11:41 AM
So the letter sent by the NFLPA states the Troy Vincent had no right/purview to give punishment as he is only charged with giving suspensions related to unsportsmanlike conduct on the field and another category but it has to be on the field- not this.

This is going to get really, really ugly.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492854/article/nflpa-releases-appeal-letter

I thought there wasn't a problem to begin with... so...

broncolee
05-15-2015, 12:55 PM
So the letter sent by the NFLPA states the Troy Vincent had no right/purview to give punishment as he is only charged with giving suspensions related to unsportsmanlike conduct on the field and another category but it has to be on the field- not this.

This is going to get really, really ugly.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492854/article/nflpa-releases-appeal-letter

So now they're mad because Goodell didn't issue the punishment.

If I were Roger and believed the Wells report, which I'm not sure I do, I would vacate the suspension and issue a new one, just to satisfy the union. Good luck to the union appealing that because, if that's their only argument against the punishment, I don't see how even a federal judge would overturn it.

dizzolve
05-15-2015, 12:59 PM
So the Patriots think the NFL didn't have good enough procedures in place to catch them cheating ..... so they should be allowed to get away with it? Is that what the Pats are suggesting?

dizzolve
05-15-2015, 01:11 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

Looks like the Wells report is slowly unspiraling like we knew it would

I don't get it - So Wells didn't see this text because it was Spring from 14. He claims he only checked the texts from during the season of 14 (before the first interview). He checked the ones from the Spring - after the interview. So? That means it's unraveling why exactly?

samparnell
05-15-2015, 01:43 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

Looks like the Wells report is slowly unspiraling like we knew it would

That isn't even a word in the English language. Now you're making things up just like your team does.

MH Stampede
05-15-2015, 04:31 PM
Goodell to hear Brady's appeal himself. This is not going to go well. I'm surprised by this. Wonder which way he will go.

I bet the suspension gets reduced to 2.

broncoslover115
05-18-2015, 06:34 AM
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/18/robert-kraft-patriots-owner-nfl-deflategate/

Robert Kraft had a phone conference with Peter King and here is his interview.

Herm said this morning on Mike and Mike that whether Brady did this or not, he believes the Patriots have completely mishandled this by having so many people talking without anyone knowing all the facts.

He said this has become a circus because the Patriots have made it one. Right from the beginning there should have been one spokesman to make a statement and then everyone should shut up and let the process play out. But that's not what the Pats did. They had BB doing his Mona Lisa Vito science show, then Brady's denial show, then Kraft's demand for an apology and so on and so forth.

Oh well, here is another person who can't shut up.

CanDB
05-18-2015, 09:09 AM
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/18/robert-kraft-patriots-owner-nfl-deflategate/

Robert Kraft had a phone conference with Peter King and here is his interview.

Herm said this morning on Mike and Mike that whether Brady did this or not, he believes the Patriots have completely mishandled this by having so many people talking without anyone knowing all the facts.

He said this has become a circus because the Patriots have made it one. Right from the beginning there should have been one spokesman to make a statement and then everyone should shut up and let the process play out. But that's not what the Pats did. They had BB doing his Mona Lisa Vito science show, then Brady's denial show, then Kraft's demand for an apology and so on and so forth.

Oh well, here is another person who can't shut up.

As mentioned previously, this is a PR debacle, and you'd think The "mighty" Pats would know better. At first it looked like they were all on their own, defending themselves. It almost came across like Belichick was leaving Brady out to dry, with those bad ass ball boys (ha ha). And then Kraft took the high road (after taking the low road), and said he'd accept whatever punishment came their way......that is, until he received it. Meanwhile Brady's agent was acting like a teenager who wasn't allowed to have the car on the weekend. And then the rebuttal that included a reference to the "deflator" being linked to a weight loss program (hmmmm, might be a new career for that dude), which was as Mike Silver said, "insulting our intelligence".

So, the SB champs somehow have every detail worked out in the game of football, but they sure suck in the cover up world. Somehow I get the feeling they'd distance themselves from their grannies if they thought it might hurt them.

Rastic
05-18-2015, 09:28 AM
As mentioned previously, this is a PR debacle, and you'd think The "mighty" Pats would know better. At first it looked like they were all on their own, defending themselves. It almost came across like Belichick was leaving Brady out to dry, with those bad ass ball boys (ha ha). And then Kraft took the high road (after taking the low road), and said he'd accept whatever punishment came their way......that is, until he received it. Meanwhile Brady's agent was acting like a teenager who wasn't allowed to have the car on the weekend. And then the rebuttal that included a reference to the "deflator" being linked to a weight loss program (hmmmm, might be a new career for that dude), which was as Mike Silver said, "insulting our intelligence".

So, the SB champs somehow have every detail worked out in the game of football, but they sure suck in the cover up world. Somehow I get the feeling they'd distance themselves from their grannies if they thought it might hurt them.

Since there is already an overabundance of divas and drama, why not throw in some vampires? You'd have a great new show for teens.

CanDB
05-18-2015, 09:50 AM
Since there is already an overabundance of divas and drama, why not throw in some vampires? You'd have a great new show for teens.

Yes, vampires and zombies are a guarantee these days.......and I think The Pats are both. I can see Brady smiling like he always does, but then the fangs come out when the tv cameras disappear. And the way Belichick conducts interviews, he's definitely a zombie, who does not know how to dress himself. I mean really, "we're on to Cincinnati", that's definitely a zombie talking!

Kraft......definitely vamp. Too smart to be a zombie.

I kinda like Gronk, so he'd be a fun vamp or zombie, whatever works.

As for Evans and McGinest, well, as tv guys they're zombies for sure, because all they know about is The Pats.

One more thing.....Tommy deflates footballs with his teeth.

broncoslover115
05-18-2015, 10:22 AM
Yes, vampires and zombies are a guarantee these days.......and I think The Pats are both. I can see Brady smiling like he always does, but then the fangs come out when the tv cameras disappear. And the way Belichick conducts interviews, he's definitely a zombie, who does not know how to dress himself. I mean really, "we're on to Cincinnati", that's definitely a zombie talking!

Kraft......definitely vamp. Too smart to be a zombie.

I kinda like Gronk, so he'd be a fun vamp or zombie, whatever works.

As for Evans and McGinest, well, as tv guys they're zombies for sure, because all they know about is The Pats.

One more thing.....Tommy deflates footballs with his teeth.

Post of the week my friend! :laugh:

58Miller
05-18-2015, 10:25 AM
Yes, vampires and zombies are a guarantee these days.......and I think The Pats are both. I can see Brady smiling like he always does, but then the fangs come out when the tv cameras disappear. And the way Belichick conducts interviews, he's definitely a zombie, who does not know how to dress himself. I mean really, "we're on to Cincinnati", that's definitely a zombie talking!

Kraft......definitely vamp. Too smart to be a zombie.

I kinda like Gronk, so he'd be a fun vamp or zombie, whatever works.

As for Evans and McGinest, well, as tv guys they're zombies for sure, because all they know about is The Pats.

One more thing.....Tommy deflates footballs with his teeth.
Gronk is Frankenstein!

CanDB
05-18-2015, 11:05 AM
Gronk is Frankenstein!

Yah....he's got that Munsters thing about him.

EddieMac
05-18-2015, 11:11 AM
Gronk is Frankenstein!


Yah....he's got that Munsters thing about him.

Na that's reserved for Brady****

http://i.imgur.com/aiM7OyI.png

FL BRONCO
05-18-2015, 12:44 PM
Yes, vampires and zombies are a guarantee these days.......and I think The Pats are both. I can see Brady smiling like he always does, but then the fangs come out when the tv cameras disappear. And the way Belichick conducts interviews, he's definitely a zombie, who does not know how to dress himself. I mean really, "we're on to Cincinnati", that's definitely a zombie talking!

Kraft......definitely vamp. Too smart to be a zombie.

I kinda like Gronk, so he'd be a fun vamp or zombie, whatever works.

As for Evans and McGinest, well, as tv guys they're zombies for sure, because all they know about is The Pats.

One more thing.....Tommy deflates footballs with his teeth.

See with some of the things I've seen on the field and lately, I see it more like Frankk-N-Furter:salute:

CanDB
05-18-2015, 04:56 PM
BTW.....did Kraft really say that this is the harshest penalty ever, in the NFL??? I must have read/heard that wrong. I can imagine a lot of recipients of punishment would beg to differ, including The Saints.

MH Stampede
05-18-2015, 05:19 PM
I kinda like Gronk, so he'd be a fun vamp or zombie, whatever works.

Werewolf .

MH Stampede
05-18-2015, 05:23 PM
BTW.....did Kraft really say that this is the harshest penalty ever, in the NFL??? I must have read/heard that wrong. I can imagine a lot of recipients of punishment would beg to differ, including The Saints.

Saints were hit far harder, although not with as big a fine.

The 1M fine ties the record, also held by 9er owner Eddie DeBartalo.

Houshmazode
05-18-2015, 05:36 PM
The Patriots are being arrogant clowns. I don't see how Brady didn't get suspended for 8 games (at least). The Saints got ripped a new one, Goodell went kind of easy on his buddy Kraft's team. The $1million fine is chump change, Goodell could pay 40 of those with his salary.

CanDB
05-18-2015, 08:10 PM
Saints were hit far harder, although not with as big a fine.

The 1M fine ties the record, also held by 9er owner Eddie DeBartalo.

Yes but look at the salaries lost by Sean Payton and others. It clearly exceeds Brady's salary and the $1M fine. Not to mention, losing your HC for a year as well as the others was "EXCESSIVE"!!

diesel51
05-18-2015, 08:34 PM
Now, Adam Schefter is reporting that the NFL and the Patriots are working behind the scenes to come to an agreement on a more 'suitable' punishment. Are you freaking kidding me?

EddieMac
05-18-2015, 08:41 PM
Now, Adam Schefter is reporting that the NFL and the Patriots are working behind the scenes to come to an agreement on a more 'suitable' punishment. Are you freaking kidding me?

That's just peachy......if that's true then Goodell truly is an imbecile, and I don't have an issue with him at all.

MH Stampede
05-18-2015, 09:09 PM
Now, Adam Schefter is reporting that the NFL and the Patriots are working behind the scenes to come to an agreement on a more 'suitable' punishment. Are you freaking kidding me?

Fans around the league will absolutely explode if this is true and they come to a "deal".

bad bad idea.

It will set the precedent that when you get caught and punished, you can wheel and deal your way through it.

Goodell's days are numbered if this is true. I cant see the other owners going along with the idea that the cheatingest team in the sport can talk their way out of any kind of disciplinary action.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 04:33 AM
Adam Schefter reported that the 2 employees of the Pats were suspended at the request of the NFL before they knew what was happening and before this punishment went down.

What? Another bizarre situation getting more bizarre.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 04:56 AM
Fans around the league will absolutely explode if this is true and they come to a "deal".

bad bad idea.

It will set the precedent that when you get caught and punished, you can wheel and deal your way through it.

Goodell's days are numbered if this is true. I cant see the other owners going along with the idea that the cheatingest team in the sport can talk their way out of any kind of disciplinary action.


Now, Adam Schefter is reporting that the NFL and the Patriots are working behind the scenes to come to an agreement on a more 'suitable' punishment. Are you freaking kidding me?

I'm not seeing this as anything shady really. It kind of makes sense in a way as a step to try and get something done I guess to avoid a lengthy appeals process. But, it does indicate that the punishment is not going to stand which pisses me off.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...gate-penalties

The NFL and the New England Patriots are engaged in "back-channel conversations" to see if the two sides can resolve their differences without an appeal or possible litigation following the league's Deflategate punishment, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

The Patriots are weighing their next move in terms of reacting to the discipline meted out by the NFL and have until before Friday to file an appeal of their penalties, which consist of the loss of two draft picks -- including a first-rounder -- and a $1 million fine.

he team's penalties were for, among other issues, what the NFL said was a lack of cooperation with the investigation.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell are expected to attend the spring owners' meetings, which start Tuesday in San Francisco.

Kraft, when asked by The MMQB whether he would violate NFL bylaws by going to court to try to get the league penalties overturned, declined to comment, saying, "I'm not going to comment on that at this point in time. I'm going to leave it. I won't say."

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady was suspended for four games for his likely knowledge of the use of underinflated footballs in the AFC title game against the Indianapolis Colts. Brady has officially appealed his suspension to the league.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 07:17 AM
More bluster from the Patriots camp....Matt Light is wanting to take on anyone who is not a Patriot supporter in this circus. :rolleyes:

http://nesn.com/2015/05/matt-light-rips-roger-goodell-calls-deflategate-a-ridiculous-circus/

“When it comes to the pressurization of a pigskin, I have a lot of deep thoughts, right? Like the kind with Jack Handey — remember the old ‘Deep Thoughts,’ remember those? I’ve got a lot of thoughts about that,” Light said sarcastically. “And I think that what we really need is an open forum. Like on every talk show in Boston, we should talk about it. But with me. “So what I’m going to do is, I’m going to put a target on my chest and I’m going to say I’m going to go after everyone that wants to have a conversation about Deflategate. So find me, I’ll be available for the next two weeks, and we’re going to get it on. “Does that sound good? Would that be entertaining? Can we bring some common sense to it?”

...“When it’s all said and done, if you feel the way I do about this ridiculous circus that Roger Goodell and the rest of his little buddies in the league office put together — if you think it’s absolutely insane — then side with me and get a chance to come and go to Indianapolis on a private jet, see the game, enjoy the weekend, and that’s a raffle,” Light said. “And we’re going to turn a circus into something positive, we’ll send a lot of kids to camp. “And you know what? Roger, if you’re listening, we may raise enough money to actually have you come attend one of our leadership camps.”

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/05/matt-light-rips-roger-goodell-calls-deflategate-a-ridiculous-circus/

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 07:43 AM
Adam Schefter reported that the 2 employees of the Pats were suspended at the request of the NFL before they knew what was happening and before this punishment went down.

What? Another bizarre situation getting more bizarre.


NFL now denies they asked the Patriots to suspend McNally and Jastremski. This is getting ridiculous and now it's getting hard to believe anyone. Did the Pats leak this faulty piece of info?

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 09:37 AM
I'm not seeing this as anything shady really. It kind of makes sense in a way as a step to try and get something done I guess to avoid a lengthy appeals process. But, it does indicate that the punishment is not going to stand which pisses me off.

LOL @ anyone who thought Brady would serve a suspension for this silly NON issue.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 10:03 AM
LOL @ anyone who thought Brady would serve a suspension for this silly NON issue.

If you think he will walk away from this without serving any suspension, you will be sadly mistaken. He will get something for not cooperating at the least.

And it's not a NON Issue. It became an issue when the Patriots made it one.

Rastic
05-19-2015, 10:39 AM
LOL @ anyone who thought Brady would serve a suspension for this silly NON issue.

Lol at PATs fans for defending Brady's, Kraft's, et al, "honor" - the real non issue.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 10:42 AM
Lol at PATs fans for defending Brady's, Kraft's, et al, "honor" - the real non issue.

Kraft? I don't think any Pats fans are defending the worst owner in the NFL.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 10:45 AM
BREAKING NEWS:

Robert Kraft WILL NOT appeal the penalties handed down.

This does NOT include Brady's 4 game suspension. That will continue but this move may provide some stance towards giving Brady some leniency.

Spice 1
05-19-2015, 10:46 AM
BREAKING NEWS:

Robert Kraft WILL NOT appeal the penalties handed down.

This does NOT include Brady's 4 game suspension. That will continue but this move may provide some stance towards giving Brady some leniency.

I'm not sure which was more predictable: That the Patriots didn't appeal the team penalties, or that Kraft got on the podium and made it sound like the decision had nothing to do with the fact that they realized how pointless the appeal would have been?

Bronco51
05-19-2015, 10:51 AM
BREAKING NEWS:

Robert Kraft WILL NOT appeal the penalties handed down.

This does NOT include Brady's 4 game suspension. That will continue but this move may provide some stance towards giving Brady some leniency.

Oh wait, you have all that evidence against us? Nevermind. We will not appeal. But remember to gives us Brady for 16 games because we retracted the appeal.

FL BRONCO
05-19-2015, 10:54 AM
NFL now denies they asked the Patriots to suspend McNally and Jastremski. This is getting ridiculous and now it's getting hard to believe anyone. Did the Pats leak this faulty piece of info?

Well makes sense to me, if Pats want those 2 as far away from the press and the questions as possible they certainly can't have them anywhere around the facility or where they can be accessed, so what better way to remove them and blame somebody else.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 10:55 AM
Oh wait, you have all that evidence against us? Nevermind. We will not appeal. But remember to gives us Brady for 16 games because we retracted the appeal.

Nah, you don't have to worry. Kraft is a spineless fool. He did not make a deal.

Greg A. Bedard ✔ @GregABedard
Was told by a high-ranking NFL source that Kraft's decision to stand down does not include a deal on Brady. Surprising to me.

Spice 1
05-19-2015, 10:56 AM
Oh wait, you have all that evidence against us? Nevermind. We will not appeal. But remember to gives us Brady for 16 games because we retracted the appeal.

If Brady's suspension is reduced, this is precisely what NFL fans are going to suggest.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 10:58 AM
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12913741/robert-kraft-says-new-england-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

The Patriots were fined $1 million and docked two draft picks, a first-rounder in 2016 and a fourth-rounder in 2017, by the NFL after an investigation found that star quarterback Tom Brady was "at least generally aware" of a scheme to illegally deflate footballs for the AFC Championship Game.

Striking a conciliatory tone, Kraft said Tuesday that the Patriots will not appeal the penalties.

"Although I might disagree what is decided, I do have respect for [commissioner Roger Goodell] and believe that he's doing what he perceives to be in the best interests of [all 32 teams]," Kraft said. "So in that spirit, I don't want to continue the rhetoric that's gone on for the last four months.

"I'm going to accept, reluctantly, what he has given to us and not continue this dialogue and rhetoric. We won't appeal."

The league also suspended Brady for four games, a punishment that the three-time Super Bowl MVP is appealing through the NFL Players Association. George Atallah, the NFLPA's executive director of external affairs, tweeted shortly after Kraft's announcement that Brady will continue his appeal.

Kraft, who did not take questions from reporters Tuesday, was critical of the NFL's handling of the incident, saying that the process "has taken way too long." He called the last few weeks "emotionally charged" and noted that he had two options -- "to end it or extend it."

Kraft also reflected on when he first became an NFL owner in 1994.

"I vowed at that time that I would do everything I could to make the New England Patriots an elite team -- and hopefully respected throughout the country -- and at the same time, do what I could to help the NFL become the most popular sport in America," he said.

The NFL and the Patriots previously had been engaged in talks to resolve their differences without an appeal or possible litigation, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Kraft and Goodell sat down and talked "for quite a long time" before hugging at a birthday party Saturday night in New York for CBS Sports chairman Sean McManus, an industry source told Schefter.

Bronco51
05-19-2015, 10:59 AM
Nah, you don't have to worry. Kraft is a spineless fool. He did not make a deal.

Greg A. Bedard ✔ @GregABedard
Was told by a high-ranking NFL source that Kraft's decision to stand down does not include a deal on Brady. Surprising to me.

Backroom deals. Wouldn't put it past either party at this point.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 11:01 AM
Backroom deals. Wouldn't put it past either party at this point.

You wouldn't put it past Kraft? Clearly you aren't very familiar with him. He cares more about the league and Goodell than he has ever cared about his franchise.

Brady is on his own.

Rastic
05-19-2015, 11:06 AM
You wouldn't put it past Kraft? Clearly you aren't very familiar with him. He cares more about the league and Goodell than he has ever cared about his franchise.

Brady is on his own.

I actually have to agree in part with this. Kraft may have decided the negative publicity has gone on enough and hurts the organization and even his role and legacy with the NFL.

Brady isn't exactly alone though, the NFLPA is all over this, though his case is not a slam dunk, especially if the suspension is upheld by Goodell and Brady / NFLPA then decides to go to court.

Bronco51
05-19-2015, 11:10 AM
You wouldn't put it past Kraft? Clearly you aren't very familiar with him. He cares more about the league and Goodell than he has ever cared about his franchise.

Brady is on his own.

For a man who was so adamant that his organization was innocent, to the point of demanding apologies from Goodell and the league when they were found innocent, to lay down like this and concede the draft picks and 1 million dollars, just seems fishy.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 11:12 AM
For a man who was so adamant that his organization was innocent, to the point of demanding apologies from Goodell and the league when they were found innocent, to lay down like this and concede the draft picks and 1 million dollars, just seems fishy.

Not really. Even most of us Pats fans are not surprised. We expected him to do this based on his history. He was never going to go after his good buddy Goodell. They even hugged it out earlier in the day.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 11:16 AM
There is a possibility that this is part of a bigger plan where Kraft stands down and Brady accepts a reduced suspension and agrees not to go to court.

This may have already been worked out but who the hell knows. The saga may continue or it might be reaching its end. Keep your popcorn.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 11:20 AM
There is a possibility that this is part of a bigger plan where Kraft stands down and Brady accepts a reduced suspension and agrees not to go to court.

This may have already been worked out but who the hell knows. The saga may continue or it might be reaching its end. Keep your popcorn.

I'd like to to see ONE example when this guy has ever put himself on the line for his organization or any of the players. Just one.

You won't find one, because it doesn't exist. This doesn't include a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. Kraft doesn't care. As he made clear, he cares about the league far more than he does about his franchise.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 11:27 AM
I'd like to to see ONE example when this guy has ever put himself on the line for his organization or any of the players. Just one.

You won't find one, because it doesn't exist. This doesn't include a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. Kraft doesn't care. As he made clear, he cares about the league far more than he does about his franchise.

Interesting take. Do many Patriots fans feel the same way? What did you want him to do? What leverage did he have? Your team got caught and he realized it was futile to keep going.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the league has more on you than has even been reported? You all believe the opposite is true, but maybe they have more than you know.

But it sounds like you honestly believe Brady and/or your equipment guys are completely innocent. That's hilarious. Your team got caught. And as I wrote somewhere else, even the Boston sports media recognize Brady did something, the guys did something and got caught.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 11:35 AM
Interesting take. Do many Patriots fans feel the same way? What did you want him to do? What leverage did he have? Your team got caught and he realized it was futile to keep going.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the league has more on you than has even been reported? You all believe the opposite is true, but maybe they have more than you know.

Yes, many Pats fans have disliked Kraft for years. Today it isn't just dislike - it's all out hatred and outrage.

If they had more than what was reported, it would have been presented already. Are you suggesting that Wells did not report everything there was to report?

Also, there's this:

Greg A. Bedard @GregABedard · 29m 29 minutes ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.

Seems like Brady has a pretty strong case. So if that is true, there's no need for the team to be punished at all.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 11:39 AM
Yes, many Pats fans have disliked Kraft for years. Today it isn't just dislike - it's all out hatred and outrage.

If they had more than what was reported, it would have been presented already. Are you suggesting that Wells did not report everything there was to report?

Also, there's this:

Greg A. Bedard @GregABedard · 29m 29 minutes ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.

Seems like Brady has a pretty strong case. So if that is true, there's no need for the team to be punished at all.

But it sounds like you honestly believe Brady and/or your equipment guys are completely innocent. That's hilarious. Your team got caught. And as I wrote somewhere else, even the Boston sports media recognize Brady did something, the guys did something and got caught.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 11:41 AM
But it sounds like you honestly believe Brady and/or your equipment guys are completely innocent. That's hilarious. Your team got caught. And as I wrote somewhere else, even the Boston sports media recognize Brady did something, the guys did something and got caught.

How did they get caught? Stop posting nonsense.

Bronco51
05-19-2015, 11:45 AM
I'd like to to see ONE example when this guy has ever put himself on the line for his organization or any of the players. Just one.

You won't find one, because it doesn't exist. This doesn't include a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. Kraft doesn't care. As he made clear, he cares about the league far more than he does about his franchise.

But if he cares about the league as much as you say, wouldn't he want to make sure the league hands out discipline equally and evenly in all cases? For Kraft to adamantly insist that they are innocent, but accept the punishment looks bad for the league overall don't you think? If he cared so much shouldn't he fight for what's right to prove Goodell and CO. need to get their house in order? It just seems pretty hypocritical to have such a change of heart after 4 months.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 11:59 AM
How did they get caught? Stop posting nonsense.

Oh please, don't come here and tell me to stop posting on MY own message board. I'll post whatever I want, even if you're the only one who considers it nonsense.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 12:01 PM
But if he cares about the league as much as you say, wouldn't he want to make sure the league hands out discipline equally and evenly in all cases? For Kraft to adamantly insist that they are innocent, but accept the punishment looks bad for the league overall don't you think? If he cared so much shouldn't he fight for what's right to prove Goodell and CO. need to get their house in order? It just seems pretty hypocritical to have such a change of heart after 4 months.

That's the thing - he would never go against his buddy. I'm sure in his mind, and Goodell's mind, proving Goodell's incompetence would be more destructive to the league.

It is indeed hypocritical, but not at all unexpected. He was bluffing all along.

NLPDE
05-19-2015, 12:04 PM
Oh please, don't come here and tell me to stop posting on MY own message board. I'll post whatever I want, even if you're the only one who considers it nonsense.

League sources, as well as the NFLPA and other legal experts, believe it is nonsense. So I am certainly not the only one.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 12:13 PM
League sources, as well as the NFLPA and other legal experts, believe it is nonsense. So I am certainly not the only one.

Whatever. Just don't come on here and tell any Bronco fan to stop posting whatever they want to post. It's a sign of arrogance and self-entitlement, just like your team.

FL BRONCO
05-19-2015, 12:38 PM
you wouldn't put it past kraft? Clearly you aren't very familiar with him. He cares more about the league and goodell than he has ever cared about his franchise.

Brady is on his own.

lololololololololol.................I'm :speech:I can tell their is no need to even try and hold any sort of intelligent conversation so its probably best I just stay :speech:

underrated29
05-19-2015, 01:02 PM
Youll never get through to the pats people. They are a brainwashed cult. It is exceptionally pathetic that in this day and age people are so easily swayed.

The pats cult constantly will reiterate that the evidence is circumstantial, non existent, etc etc etc. Never once have they ever cited where it is, what is, nothing. Just that it is all rubbish. The cult fans hear it and repeat it and the more they hear it the more they cannot fathom anything else is possible.

It is like a disease, a disease of stupidity.

Dont waste your time on the pats blind cult followers. They will NEVER ever see it. Ever. Even after all the proof and the suspensions and everything else they wont get it. You are better off teaching a child Aeronautic physics. They will grasp more than the pats cult members. Ignorance is bliss is an understatement to the highest degree when trying to get them to put down the kool aid for a moment. Sad way to live life. Sad way to root for a team. Sadly, they will Never get it.

Socnorb11
05-19-2015, 01:08 PM
League sources, as well as the NFLPA and other legal experts, believe it is nonsense. So I am certainly not the only one.

This isn't true.

Socnorb11
05-19-2015, 01:09 PM
That's the thing - he would never go against his buddy. I'm sure in his mind, and Goodell's mind, proving Goodell's incompetence would be more destructive to the league.

It is indeed hypocritical, but not at all unexpected. He was bluffing all along.


Then why try to make the league look like a bunch of jackasses by demanding an apology to begin with?

Your theory doesn't make much sense, honestly.

Spice 1
05-19-2015, 01:13 PM
League sources, as well as the NFLPA and other legal experts, believe it is nonsense. So I am certainly not the only one.

Nonsense is claiming that a guy, who is under investigation for deflating footballs, refers to himself as the 'deflator' because he's trying to lose weight.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 03:09 PM
Youll never get through to the pats people. They are a brainwashed cult. It is exceptionally pathetic that in this day and age people are so easily swayed.

The pats cult constantly will reiterate that the evidence is circumstantial, non existent, etc etc etc. Never once have they ever cited where it is, what is, nothing. Just that it is all rubbish. The cult fans hear it and repeat it and the more they hear it the more they cannot fathom anything else is possible.

It is like a disease, a disease of stupidity.

Dont waste your time on the pats blind cult followers. They will NEVER ever see it. Ever. Even after all the proof and the suspensions and everything else they wont get it. You are better off teaching a child Aeronautic physics. They will grasp more than the pats cult members. Ignorance is bliss is an understatement to the highest degree when trying to get them to put down the kool aid for a moment. Sad way to live life. Sad way to root for a team. Sadly, they will Never get it.

What I wonder is why Pats fans always feel compelled to come on our boards to get us to join their cult, drink their Kool-Aid and plead their case.

I don't get it. I wonder if they go onto other team's forums as well but they seem desperate and seem to have this overwhelming need to come here. It's weird actually.

AC1
05-19-2015, 03:55 PM
What I wonder is why Pats fans always feel compelled to come on our boards to get us to join their cult, drink their Kool-Aid and plead their case.

I don't get it. I wonder if they go onto other team's forums as well but they seem desperate and seem to have this overwhelming need to come here. It's weird actually.

This has to be really hard for Pats fans. Brady is revered in NE in a very different way than Elway is in Denver or Marino is in Miami. Brady was admired not for his talent, but for being successful without not having obvious arm or athletic talent. The implication was that this was a guy who achieved success through being smart and working hard (that Brady won the best parking spot every year by being first in and last out, is the kind of story that is very common about him in Boston). They look at him not as a talented jock but as a smart, standup guy who does things the right way. Boston's blue collar crowd loves that more than they would love a #1 overall pick coming down as a savior of the franchise.

Now to find out he's been caught cheating is rough on them. After all, if he cheated here, who knows how many times he cheated that weren't caught. Tom Terrific may have been a hardworking guy, but maybe it was the underhanded stuff that won those Super Bowls. That, to a Pats fan and consumer of the "Patriots Way" BS, is too unpalatable.

For my part, I'm a bit disappointed in Brady. I knew Belichick was crooked, but Brady was just a great story. I guess this is not surprpsing. They couldn't have done Spygate without Brady knowing the defensive signals before the snap. I guess he was always a cheat too.

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 04:17 PM
I'm not seeing this as anything shady really. It kind of makes sense in a way as a step to try and get something done I guess to avoid a lengthy appeals process. But, it does indicate that the punishment is not going to stand which pisses me off.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...gate-penalties

The NFL and the New England Patriots are engaged in "back-channel conversations" to see if the two sides can resolve their differences without an appeal or possible litigation following the league's Deflategate punishment, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

The Patriots are weighing their next move in terms of reacting to the discipline meted out by the NFL and have until before Friday to file an appeal of their penalties, which consist of the loss of two draft picks -- including a first-rounder -- and a $1 million fine.

he team's penalties were for, among other issues, what the NFL said was a lack of cooperation with the investigation.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell are expected to attend the spring owners' meetings, which start Tuesday in San Francisco.

Kraft, when asked by The MMQB whether he would violate NFL bylaws by going to court to try to get the league penalties overturned, declined to comment, saying, "I'm not going to comment on that at this point in time. I'm going to leave it. I won't say."

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady was suspended for four games for his likely knowledge of the use of underinflated footballs in the AFC title game against the Indianapolis Colts. Brady has officially appealed his suspension to the league.

after these "back channel talks" (whatever that is supposed to imply, this isnt international diplomacy with north korea here) Kraft has suddenly decided to drop it and move on...accepting the NFL's discipline without complaint.

Now, why the sudden change of heart after talking to the league about it?

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 04:18 PM
LOL @ anyone who thought Brady would serve a suspension for this silly NON issue.

A million bucks, a #1 pick, a #4 pick, a suspension, and two long term employees fired say this is anything BUT a non issue.

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 04:25 PM
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12913741/robert-kraft-says-new-england-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

The Patriots were fined $1 million and docked two draft picks, a first-rounder in 2016 and a fourth-rounder in 2017, by the NFL after an investigation found that star quarterback Tom Brady was "at least generally aware" of a scheme to illegally deflate footballs for the AFC Championship Game.

Striking a conciliatory tone, Kraft said Tuesday that the Patriots will not appeal the penalties.

"Although I might disagree what is decided, I do have respect for [commissioner Roger Goodell] and believe that he's doing what he perceives to be in the best interests of [all 32 teams]," Kraft said. "So in that spirit, I don't want to continue the rhetoric that's gone on for the last four months.

"I'm going to accept, reluctantly, what he has given to us and not continue this dialogue and rhetoric. We won't appeal."

The league also suspended Brady for four games, a punishment that the three-time Super Bowl MVP is appealing through the NFL Players Association. George Atallah, the NFLPA's executive director of external affairs, tweeted shortly after Kraft's announcement that Brady will continue his appeal.

Kraft, who did not take questions from reporters Tuesday, was critical of the NFL's handling of the incident, saying that the process "has taken way too long." He called the last few weeks "emotionally charged" and noted that he had two options -- "to end it or extend it."

Kraft also reflected on when he first became an NFL owner in 1994.

"I vowed at that time that I would do everything I could to make the New England Patriots an elite team -- and hopefully respected throughout the country -- and at the same time, do what I could to help the NFL become the most popular sport in America," he said.

The NFL and the Patriots previously had been engaged in talks to resolve their differences without an appeal or possible litigation, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Kraft and Goodell sat down and talked "for quite a long time" before hugging at a birthday party Saturday night in New York for CBS Sports chairman Sean McManus, an industry source told Schefter.

My take...and just opinion...on how these "back channel talks" went down..

Kraft : Roger, the draft picks are ridiculous. Gotta do something about that. The fine? Reduced would be great too, it does equal the largest fine in NFL history, I dont want that on record as part of the "patriot way".

Goodell: Hi Bob. Here, check this stuff out (hands over a folder 7" deep).

Kraft : Ok, we'll drop it, its best for the league to put this all behind us as soon as possible.

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 04:28 PM
Yes, many Pats fans have disliked Kraft for years. Today it isn't just dislike - it's all out hatred and outrage.

If they had more than what was reported, it would have been presented already. Are you suggesting that Wells did not report everything there was to report?

Also, there's this:

Greg A. Bedard @GregABedard · 29m 29 minutes ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.

Seems like Brady has a pretty strong case. So if that is true, there's no need for the team to be punished at all.

Umm...

Not everything is about the patriots or Brady, you know that right?

The NFLPA is taking the NFL to court (again) over the Peterson suspension.

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 04:29 PM
How did they get caught? Stop posting nonsense.

And this....is why none of your posts are actually taken seriously.

CanDB
05-19-2015, 04:49 PM
And this....is why none of your posts are actually taken seriously.

But that's not totally true....you see, the mods took him seriously



enough to suspend him!;)

CanDB
05-19-2015, 04:57 PM
As for what transpired today, I am glad that Kraft saw the light, but hopefully it is not part of a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. It might just end up that way, and I would not be surprised if he gets 2 games now, but I disagree if it does get reduced. He was not contrite or cooperative, and there is ample to go on regarding tampering with the footballs. If anything, a more thorough review of his texts, calls, etc. would undoubtedly make this case even more interesting.

But I can imagine what went down with Kraft. Goodell probably made it clear he would be easier to get along with if Kraft stopped the appeal process, and that Kraft would gain some respect from his peers and outsiders if he took it on the chin, like a responsible individual. I just hope Brady wasn't part of the deal.

Regardless, even though it appears Kraft did the smart thing today, he did show some weakness thru the process, by asking for apologies, ripping up the investigation, and making it look like he was going to pursue this thing much further. Funny how he saw the light. Again, it could be a very mature, responsible move, or there's something more in it. I sure hope it's the former, in which case I have a greater respect for him than I did yesterday.

broncoslover115
05-19-2015, 05:33 PM
As for what transpired today, I am glad that Kraft saw the light, but hopefully it is not part of a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. It might just end up that way, and I would not be surprised if he gets 2 games now, but I disagree if it does get reduced. He was not contrite or cooperative, and there is ample to go on regarding tampering with the footballs. If anything, a more thorough review of his texts, calls, etc. would undoubtedly make this case even more interesting.

But I can imagine what went down with Kraft. Goodell probably made it clear he would be easier to get along with if Kraft stopped the appeal process, and that Kraft would gain some respect from his peers and outsiders if he took it on the chin, like a responsible individual. I just hope Brady wasn't part of the deal.

Regardless, even though it appears Kraft did the smart thing today, he did show some weakness thru the process, by asking for apologies, ripping up the investigation, and making it look like he was going to pursue this thing much further. Funny how he saw the light. Again, it could be a very mature, responsible move, or there's something more in it. I sure hope it's the former, in which case I have a greater respect for him than I did yesterday.

I think the owners didn't have his back on this and told him to get on with it. In other words, Robert, we are business owners. Just drop this thing and go back to counting your money. What I'm hearing in Boston is that if a back deal is being made, Brady might get a 1 game suspension for not cooperating and a statement may be made that he is exonerated as being found culpable for the deflated footballs.

If that were to happen, I don't know how the rest of the fan bases would take that.

Garfield
05-19-2015, 06:32 PM
Kraft may have just figured out his HC and some of the players and staff have been cheating for years, with this and other things (we may never find out what).

MH Stampede
05-19-2015, 08:45 PM
As for what transpired today, I am glad that Kraft saw the light, but hopefully it is not part of a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. It might just end up that way, and I would not be surprised if he gets 2 games now, but I disagree if it does get reduced. He was not contrite or cooperative, and there is ample to go on regarding tampering with the footballs. If anything, a more thorough review of his texts, calls, etc. would undoubtedly make this case even more interesting.

But I can imagine what went down with Kraft. Goodell probably made it clear he would be easier to get along with if Kraft stopped the appeal process, and that Kraft would gain some respect from his peers and outsiders if he took it on the chin, like a responsible individual. I just hope Brady wasn't part of the deal.

Regardless, even though it appears Kraft did the smart thing today, he did show some weakness thru the process, by asking for apologies, ripping up the investigation, and making it look like he was going to pursue this thing much further. Funny how he saw the light. Again, it could be a very mature, responsible move, or there's something more in it. I sure hope it's the former, in which case I have a greater respect for him than I did yesterday.

Only bad thing is, if Brady does get his suspension reduced, it wont matter if he would have gotten it reduced without this, many will believe this is why got it reduced, even if it wasnt.

Rastic
05-19-2015, 08:49 PM
As for what transpired today, I am glad that Kraft saw the light, but hopefully it is not part of a deal to reduce Brady's suspension. It might just end up that way, and I would not be surprised if he gets 2 games now, but I disagree if it does get reduced. He was not contrite or cooperative, and there is ample to go on regarding tampering with the footballs. If anything, a more thorough review of his texts, calls, etc. would undoubtedly make this case even more interesting.

But I can imagine what went down with Kraft. Goodell probably made it clear he would be easier to get along with if Kraft stopped the appeal process, and that Kraft would gain some respect from his peers and outsiders if he took it on the chin, like a responsible individual. I just hope Brady wasn't part of the deal.

Regardless, even though it appears Kraft did the smart thing today, he did show some weakness thru the process, by asking for apologies, ripping up the investigation, and making it look like he was going to pursue this thing much further. Funny how he saw the light. Again, it could be a very mature, responsible move, or there's something more in it. I sure hope it's the former, in which case I have a greater respect for him than I did yesterday.

I'm with BL115 on this one.

Don't you find it slightly ironic that he makes a public statement the day of owners meeting?

What do you bet a number of them stood up to him?

I don't buy into the dealing though... yet.

broncoslover115
05-20-2015, 04:09 AM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/19/robert-kraft-surrenders-battle-couldn-win/MOpqZnW4k8NhqaFpdMI4qO/story.html

This article is from Dan Shaunassey from the Boston Globe. It is unbelievable and ridiculously cultish.

Give him a box of tissues. :rolleyes:

samparnell
05-20-2015, 07:15 AM
after these "back channel talks" (whatever that is supposed to imply, this isnt international diplomacy with north korea here) Kraft has suddenly decided to drop it and move on...accepting the NFL's discipline without complaint.

Now, why the sudden change of heart after talking to the league about it?

I think he may have heard from other owners who don't like the negative publicity.

CanDB
05-20-2015, 07:37 AM
Only bad thing is, if Brady does get his suspension reduced, it wont matter if he would have gotten it reduced without this, many will believe this is why got it reduced, even if it wasnt.

Quite a dilemma mate!!!;)

CanDB
05-20-2015, 07:41 AM
I'm with BL115 on this one.

Don't you find it slightly ironic that he makes a public statement the day of owners meeting?

What do you bet a number of them stood up to him?

I don't buy into the dealing though... yet.

I do agree that some of the owners (who he is close to) gave him their true feelings on the subject, and that helped bring reason to what he was trying to process. It's one thing to be close to your team, but there's a real pressure when your peers talk logically to you. He is an owner and probably loves being a member of that fraternity.

As for a Brady deal......I hope not, but who knows?

Garfield
05-20-2015, 08:16 AM
Only bad thing is, if Brady does get his suspension reduced, it wont matter if he would have gotten it reduced without this, many will believe this is why got it reduced, even if it wasnt.

I'm pretty sure other owners had a chat with him and told him that they would not back him because of all the STINK that surrounds his team right now.

I sure they are hearing the same things from their fans as we see on this forum. They are feeling the heat as owners. Maybe not heat just fans grumbling about the commish's favorite team has been cheating for God only knows for how long. The bad PR for the league is going to bounce until it clears the news cycle. Which is not good for the league and their teams.

Was a deal made? Time will tell

Garfield
05-20-2015, 08:27 AM
I do agree that some of the owners (who he is close to) gave him their true feelings on the subject, and that helped bring reason to what he was trying to process. It's one thing to be close to your team, but there's a real pressure when your peers talk logically to you. He is an owner and probably loves being a member of that fraternity.

As for a Brady deal......I hope not, but who knows?

I suspect they said he may be to close and only hearing the BS that his team wants him to hear.

CanDB
05-20-2015, 12:16 PM
I suspect they said he may be to close and only hearing the BS that his team wants him to hear.

Or maybe he's been watching NFL Network and listening too much to Heath Evans and Willie McGinest........where biased reporting is rewarded (via a pay cheque).

Garfield
05-20-2015, 01:16 PM
Or maybe he's been watching NFL Network and listening too much to Heath Evans and Willie McGinest........where biased reporting is rewarded (via a pay cheque).

The only time I've watched nfln they have been the teams and Brady's staunched supporters. Almost aS bad as the nuckleheads on here

Rastic
05-20-2015, 01:51 PM
The only time I've watched nfln they have been the teams and Brady's staunched supporters. Almost aS bad as the nuckleheads on here

Seriously, right?

I get that having former players adds great insight and nuance to discussions but they aren't reporters! For crying out loud, let the guys that earned their degrees scholastically rather than athletically do the reporting!!!@#@!#$@#%!Q@#

Former players are entitled to their opinions just as we are but unlike trained journalists (fewer and fewer these says, but alas) they can't see their own bias in their "reporting". bleh.

Ever since ESPN started bringing these "experts" in sports news has become largely trash.

/SoapBox

Garfield
05-20-2015, 03:07 PM
Seriously, right?

I get that having former players adds great insight and nuance to discussions but they aren't reporters! For crying out loud, let the guys that earned their degrees scholastically rather than athletically do the reporting!!!@#@!#$@#%!Q@#

Former players are entitled to their opinions just as we are but unlike trained journalists (fewer and fewer these says, but alas) they can't see their own bias in their "reporting". bleh.

Ever since ESPN started bringing these "experts" in sports news has become largely trash.

/SoapBox

While I understand your comments.

If your a commentator on a program IMO there should be a HINT of professionalism.

They have insight into the game and some players that should be commented on it sheer love needs to be checked at the door.

It is a shame that NFLN has not asked them to show a bit less bias.

TD and Sharpe have a mediocum of stTing facts even if it is against the Broncos.
Shame that ex Pats still feel allegiance to BB.

broncoslover115
05-20-2015, 03:12 PM
I really like Ryan Clark when he's on ESPN as a guest. He offers good insight. Also I do think Mark Schlereth and Tedi Brueschi do a good job on NFL Live most of the time and usually aren't as biased.

Rastic
05-20-2015, 04:01 PM
While I understand your comments.

If your a commentator on a program IMO there should be a HINT of professionalism.

They have insight into the game and some players that should be commented on it sheer love needs to be checked at the door.

It is a shame that NFLN has not asked them to show a bit less bias.

TD and Sharpe have a mediocum of stTing facts even if it is against the Broncos.
Shame that ex Pats still feel allegiance to BB.

That's just it though, I know where that are coming from just like you or any other fan. Their input is valuable to a point. But when they are just given full reign to spout anecdotally it undermines the newsworthy-ness, in my opinion.

CanDB
05-20-2015, 04:04 PM
The only time I've watched nfln they have been the teams and Brady's staunched supporters. Almost aS bad as the nuckleheads on here


Seriously, right?

I get that having former players adds great insight and nuance to discussions but they aren't reporters! For crying out loud, let the guys that earned their degrees scholastically rather than athletically do the reporting!!!@#@!#$@#%!Q@#

Former players are entitled to their opinions just as we are but unlike trained journalists (fewer and fewer these says, but alas) they can't see their own bias in their "reporting". bleh.

Ever since ESPN started bringing these "experts" in sports news has become largely trash.

/SoapBox

I agree to both. As part of the qualifications of being a reporter, you have to be unbiased. Evans and McGinest are totally biased. And it's so stupid that Heath calls Brady "Tommy". How biased and obvious is that? I am going to write them and ask why they hire biased reporters.

Further, yes, some of the ex players are terrible at what they do. They can't even articulate things in regular jargon. Sure, I do like it when ex coaches / players get hired for these jobs, but those are the ones with training and professionalism. As long as you have Evans, McGinest and Sanders types, you are compromising your product.

CoryWinget81
05-20-2015, 04:43 PM
Adam Schefter reported that the 2 employees of the Pats were suspended at the request of the NFL before they knew what was happening and before this punishment went down.

What? Another bizarre situation getting more bizarre.

Goodell said today that was a lie, and the league most certainly did not ask them to suspend the guys.

samparnell
05-20-2015, 05:50 PM
Goodell said today that was a lie, and the league most certainly did not ask them to suspend the guys.

Oh Boy. Here we go again. :rolleyes:

broncoslover115
05-20-2015, 06:38 PM
Goodell said today that was a lie, and the league most certainly did not ask them to suspend the guys.

Yup, I thought I posted that it was not so in this thread. I was wondering who dropped that little piece of steaming pile as someone put it so eloquently.

MH Stampede
05-20-2015, 11:51 PM
Yup, I thought I posted that it was not so in this thread. I was wondering who dropped that little piece of steaming pile as someone put it so eloquently.

Obviously, the someone in the patriots organization did.

They have tried several such tactics, only to have them backfire on them every time.

All they did with that, with the "weight loss" story, and so on, was to dig themselves deeper. Nobody bought any of it (well, outside of Boston anyway) and as was noted by one of the NFL.com writers that stuff just insulted the intelligence of every fan. In the end, it only made them look even more guilty.

samparnell
05-21-2015, 09:09 AM
The "deflator", who got his nickname from his weight loss program, was suspended by the NE Patriots who claim he did not tamper with footballs, and that it was the NFL who asked them to suspend him, but Goodell says they didn't???? :confused:

I think I need some kind of a road map and compass to be able to follow all this. :eek:

underrated29
05-21-2015, 09:43 AM
The "deflator", who got his nickname from his weight loss program, was suspended by the NE Patriots who claim he did not tamper with footballs, and that is was the NFL who asked them to suspend him, but Goodell says they didn't???? :confused:

I think I need some kind of a road map and compass to be able to follow all this. :eek:




Just use your nose. The trail of bull caca is long and arduous but very potent, even after a decade.

CanDB
05-21-2015, 10:43 AM
The "deflator", who got his nickname from his weight loss program, was suspended by the NE Patriots who claim he did not tamper with footballs, and that is was the NFL who asked them to suspend him, but Goodell says they didn't???? :confused:

I think I need some kind of a road map and compass to be able to follow all this. :eek:


Just use your nose. The trail of bull caca is long and arduous but very potent, even after a decade.

It is really amazing how those folks like to insult the collective intelligence of so many. It's like they have no mirrors in the game of life. Reminds me of someone who emerges from the forest after being away from it all for 50 years, and then trying to dictate how things oughta be.....as if we were the lost ones.:confused:

bgpatsfan
05-23-2015, 11:17 AM
The "deflator", who got his nickname from his weight loss program, was suspended by the NE Patriots who claim he did not tamper with footballs, and that it was the NFL who asked them to suspend him, but Goodell says they didn't???? :confused:

I think I need some kind of a road map and compass to be able to follow all this. :eek:

Hahah just like Goodell never saw the Ray Rice tape and just like Walt Anderson recalls using one gauge and the NFL says he didn't

CanDB
05-23-2015, 11:27 AM
Hahah just like Goodell never saw the Ray Rice tape and just like Walt Anderson recalls using one gauge and the NFL says he didn't

You are on the defending side of this case. The ball is squarely in your court. And even if a reduced sentence, your team has been penalized for inappropriate activity. Another sad piece to the legacy.

Try not to worry about other cases.

CanDB
05-23-2015, 11:29 AM
But here's some good news for The Pats. Rumours are out there that they've found 2 new ball boys. Two individuals who will do anything for The Pats......









Heath Evans and Willie McGinest.

bgpatsfan
05-23-2015, 11:35 AM
You are on the defending side of this case. The ball is squarely in your court. And even if a reduced sentence, your team has been penalized for inappropriate activity. Another sad piece to the legacy.

Try not to worry about other cases.

Just pointing out the league does not have a whole lot of credibility at the moment... or how about the league allowing false information to be leaked to ESPN

THe biggest piece of the puzzle is still the gauge that was used prior to the game... I expect Brady's appeal to be centered around this

CanDB
05-23-2015, 12:09 PM
Just pointing out the league does not have a whole lot of credibility at the moment... or how about the league allowing false information to be leaked to ESPN

THe biggest piece of the puzzle is still the gauge that was used prior to the game... I expect Brady's appeal to be centered around this

Lets face it, the league does what the league does. I still have issues with the handling of The Saints investigation. That was a case of "I'm going to nail you for not being contrite", and in the end one of the finest HCs got a whole year off, and far away from the game. Then again, others got better outcomes.

I could elaborate about what's wrong.....sure, The Rice case was a fiasco.

But none of that lets Brady off the hook. Why? Because the league has had issues with how it handles such things? This, at this stage, is not a court case. That would be a whole new storyline, and I kind of doubt Brady wants to go there. More will be asked of him.

You can say that the league is inconsistent, and to that I will agree with you. But if in the end Brady and others were not cooperative and honest, I suspect Goodell could get a wee bit angry again, and that would not be good for anyone in his path. That's where consistency may be realized. Brady will need to be as open as he can be, because Goodell expects him to be forthcoming.

FL BRONCO
05-23-2015, 12:52 PM
]Just pointing out the league does not have a whole lot of credibility at the moment[/B]... or how about the league allowing false information to be leaked to ESPN

THe biggest piece of the puzzle is still the gauge that was used prior to the game... I expect Brady's appeal to be centered around this


Neither do the Patriots

MH Stampede
05-23-2015, 04:00 PM
Just pointing out the league does not have a whole lot of credibility at the moment... or how about the league allowing false information to be leaked to ESPN

THe biggest piece of the puzzle is still the gauge that was used prior to the game... I expect Brady's appeal to be centered around this


A pats fan arguing about "credibility"

:duh::duh:

Garfield
05-23-2015, 06:00 PM
A pats fan arguing about "credibility"
One
:duh::duh:

They are One notch lower than the pres in th credibility dept.

dizzolve
05-23-2015, 07:11 PM
Just pointing out the league does not have a whole lot of credibility at the moment... or how about the league allowing false information to be leaked to ESPN

The biggest piece of the puzzle is still the gauge that was used prior to the game... I expect Brady's appeal to be centered around this

Pretty lame that a team who's credibility is squarely and explicitly 'incredible' would respond by questioning the credibility of the league ......... how hypocritical. But hey it's just like how you fans bring up Denver's issues with the salary cap. That has ZERO to do with YOUR cheating. YOUR cheating is what is being dealt with right now. Everything else has been paid in full.

But keep pointing the finger elsewhere. It makes you feel better doesn't it. Hypocrits

samparnell
05-23-2015, 07:35 PM
Hahah just like Goodell never saw the Ray Rice tape and just like Walt Anderson recalls using one gauge and the NFL says he didn't

And what's your nickname? The "deflector"?

CanDB
05-23-2015, 08:53 PM
And what's your nickname? The "deflector"?

Yes, they got 3D all locked up......

The Deflator

The Deflector

and as for their credibility.......








The Defective:coffee: