PDA

View Full Version : Ray Rice wants to "Hang em up the right way"



Joshua2585
08-05-2015, 11:02 AM
With Arian Foster going down, Houston is in dire need of someone dynamic in the backfield. Could Ray Rice go to Houston?

Everyone makes mistakes... some bigger than others. Do you think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance?

FL BRONCO
08-05-2015, 11:34 AM
If I'm Houston I'd rather go for Tate or johnson

Colorado1876
08-05-2015, 04:00 PM
With Arian Foster going down, Houston is in dire need of someone dynamic in the backfield. Could Ray Rice go to Houston?

Everyone makes mistakes... some bigger than others. Do you think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance?
No. Rice should have got a lifetime ban.

If someone can get banned for life for gambling (a victimless crime, which isn't even a crime at all in many places), then surely someone who violently assaulted someone (an act which is de jure illegal everywhere) would also deserve such punishment.

Rancid
08-05-2015, 06:12 PM
Put him in the ring with Ronda Rousey and if he wins he gets another chance.

fallforward3y+
08-05-2015, 07:13 PM
I suppose it wouldn't be any worse than Adrian Peterson coming back(not much at least imo), although that doesn't necessarily mean it should happen. I suppose he has served a lengthy suspension(normal is 6 games). In my view, the main responsibility for punishing off the field acts is on the justice system, so in my case unless I think someone should be in jail right now, I'm ok with them playing. He didn't go to jail for his crime, but I think she didn't press charges, which probably makes it hard to go forward.

I guess for me I'm fine either way. If a team signs him, so be it, but if they don't due to off field issues I won't feel sorry for him, as he did bring that on himself imo.

From a football stand point, it's hard to say if any team will think it will be worth it to sign him. After taking a year off, it's hard to say how good he'll still be. I'm even wondering that about Adrian Peterson.

He isn't too old, but he isn't exactly 'young' by NFL Standards either. Some backs figure out how to run well when they're old, but I don't know if he is one who will.

ruksak
08-05-2015, 09:09 PM
People of high character don't have to learn not to beat women.

What he did wasn't a mistake, it was a vile crime.

To hell with him.

JJBroncoFan
08-06-2015, 06:38 AM
What he did was and is horrible, I'm not sure if I believe he deserves a second chance.

What I do know is this, most of the people saying he should be banned would be singing a different tune if it was their brother or someone they knew well. They would find some rationale in their mind to say it was a mistake and not who he is as a man. I have seen it over and over again in my life, he just happens to be an athlete so judgment is world wide.

fallforward3y+
08-07-2015, 01:54 AM
What he did was and is horrible, I'm not sure if I believe he deserves a second chance.

What I do know is this, most of the people saying he should be banned would be singing a different tune if it was their brother or someone they knew well. They would find some rationale in their mind to say it was a mistake and not who he is as a man. I have seen it over and over again in my life, he just happens to be an athlete so judgment is world wide.

I don't know if that's true or not. Some may do it, although there may be some that no longer want to associate with someone after they find out that they do certain things.

I guess in my case, I don't so much think that he has been 'wronged' but more so that him coming back wouldn't be 'significantly worse' than some who are are allowed to play playing, so if we are calling for lifetime bans over what Ray Rice did, many other players perhaps shouldn't be allowed to play as well, which is why I guess I don't look to single out Ray Rice as much as some. Should Ray Rice be allowed to come back? Perhaps not, and I won't feel sorry for him if no one signs him. After all, the actions of others don't make his any better.

However, there have been some pretty troubling cases where players are allowed back. I'm going to stick to only cases where there seems to not be a whole lot of disputing the person's guilt

Adrian Peterson beat his child until he bled(and that was after one of his biological kids was killed due to being beaten by an abusive step parent).....and he is back.
Ricky Manning was involved in jumping a guy without even much provocation and hospitalizing him.....1 game suspension I think.
Donte Stallworth drove drunk and killed someone....30 days in jail, played that season.
Aldon Smith threatened to set off a bomb at an airport....he's back.

Sure, you could argue what Ray Rice did was worse than those things, however if someone is perfectly ok with those people playing then I don't really want to listen to or read their criticisms of a team if they sign Ray Rice, however valid they may be.

I remember Brandon Spikes criticizing Ray Rice-but apparently he cared very little about the actions of Aaron Hernandez, and even seemed to think his sentence was wrong. Perhaps he thought there wasn't enough evidence, but from what I've heard it sounds like there was a lot.

Plus, Spikes I believe gouged another player in the eye in college-which may not seem like a big deal, but it could possibly blind someone in one eye....and it really doesn't make much of a difference how strong the person is, eyes are vulnerable. I believe people have said things like 'it's football that happens all the time'....but that doesn't seem true, and if it does happen a lot well...imo it shouldn't...that should mean an ejection and a suspension.

I like a good guy like Tony Gonzalez openly criticizing Ray Rice, and I agree that what Rice did was disgusting, and the actions of others don't make that any less true. However, I don't really like a person acting overly righteous when they have very questionable character themselves.

Chrissy
08-07-2015, 01:39 PM
The only right way for Rice to hang it up would be for someone to pound his face into an elevator wall..I agree w/ the other poster a lifetime ban is what was needed. If any team signs him then its a step back in my opinion ..how a player carries himself off the field is the kind of person he really is..To many kids watch the NFL and look up to these guys..and sadly there are some that are poor excuses for role models.

flosstein
08-09-2015, 09:45 AM
I don't know, maybe I see things different, because the video didn't phase me all that much. Did he whoop her? Yes. Did she instigate it and put hands and spit on him first? By her own admission, yes. So I'm over it and he should be back on the field

JJBroncoFan
08-09-2015, 04:45 PM
I don't know, maybe I see things different, because the video didn't phase me all that much. Did he whoop her? Yes. Did she instigate it and put hands and spit on him first? By her own admission, yes. So I'm over it and he should be back on the field

This is actually an interesting perspective yet one I struggle with. I was taught never to put hands on a woman, especially the amount of violence seen on the video. Interestingly enough, I know some woman that say they have no problem with a man defending himself the same way he would against a man.

Let's be honest, if a man did what she did and was laid out most of us guys would laugh it off. To be clear I do not condone what Ray Rice did but it is a double standard nonetheless.

Colorado1876
08-09-2015, 04:55 PM
I don't know, maybe I see things different, because the video didn't phase me all that much. Did he whoop her? Yes. Did she instigate it and put hands and spit on him first? By her own admission, yes. So I'm over it and he should be back on the field
Ray Rice is a criminal and should be banned for life. Violence is unexcusable and the NFL should not tolerate such behavior from it's employees. If Ray Rice is allowed back in the NFL, then that just sends the message to other players that they can act without consequence.

FL BRONCO
08-10-2015, 08:21 AM
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves a second chance. Do I think Ray does, yes. Like anybody else he does. In order to be forgiven we must be able to forgive. Not to mention the old adage judge not lest ye be judged or let he who hath not sinned throw the first stone. All apply to all of us and none of us are perfect. If he paid his price (regardless if I agree it was a fair one) then he should be able to get a second chance and be able to earn a living.

That said, I would not be looking at him if I were a team in need. He was not in his prime imo when he stopped playing. He had just over 3 yds avg if I remember correctly . I believe there are better options out there who haven't been out of football for as long and don't carry the sideshow with them when they come to town. Problem imo for Rice is, he is just not good enough to be worth overcoming the obstacles he has put in his own way. Now if he were a great player like say Ray Lewis, well I'm SURE it would be a different story.


What is it with Ravens and Rays?:confused:

flosstein
08-11-2015, 09:20 PM
Ray Rice is a criminal and should be banned for life. Violence is unexcusable and the NFL should not tolerate such behavior from it's employees. If Ray Rice is allowed back in the NFL, then that just sends the message to other players that they can act without consequence.

So no one should be allowed 2nd chances? I guess it was okay for Rod Smith and the countless outer Bronco greats that did foolish things LIKE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, yet we celebrate on a daily basis. I could see if he was a repeat offender. But up until this one "mistake" he was a model player and a great face for the league. He was heavily involved in communities and charities. Now one poor choice should discredit all the good?

fallforward3y+
08-11-2015, 10:30 PM
This is actually an interesting perspective yet one I struggle with. I was taught never to put hands on a woman, especially the amount of violence seen on the video. Interestingly enough, I know some woman that say they have no problem with a man defending himself the same way he would against a man.

Let's be honest, if a man did what she did and was laid out most of us guys would laugh it off. To be clear I do not condone what Ray Rice did but it is a double standard nonetheless.

I used to not believe in the double standard, but now I can see it to a degree. Although, for me it's really more about a difference in strength than gender, men just usually are significantly physically stronger. I understand it, a man's bone structure is different, different strengths usually and etc. If it's a woman that doesn't work out, doesn't do fighting training and etc. versus a very strong man, the punches likely are nowhere near equal.

I do however, think certain 'extremist' view points of it are a bit ridiculous. Some seem to believe that a man shouldn't fight back even if it's a woman like Becca Swanson in her prime assaulting him(former world's strongest woman I believe). In that case, it isn't about a strength deficit anymore, because she may actually beat you up bad if you don't do something to defend yourself. Granted, trying to out punch a bigger stronger opponent may not be the route you should go, but that's for strategic reasons imo.

By the way, while I don't think anyone thought I implied this, I want to clarify that I doubt Becca Swanson is the type of person who'd do something like that, she seems to be of great character, using her as an example is actually a big compliment, I have admiration for her.

That, or when there is a moral objection to women playing contact sports with men. In that case, it's consensual sports competition, they wanted to play. To me, you'd be doing a disservice to a woman to not let her play. Plus, it's kind of funny, since if someone like Becca Swanson in her prime was on defense, I'd be trying to make it so she didn't get a clean shot at me so I didn't get smashed.

In the case of Janay and Ray though, this wasn't the case. If she did hit him first, and he only pushed her away that would be a different thing, but knocking her out cold like that is too far imo.

flosstein
08-12-2015, 06:52 AM
Not only did she hit him first, she also spit in his face……several times. I get the whole physical differences, but if that's the case, then a woman should already know not to put hands on a man. I have no issue with someone knocking the snot out of another person, be it man or woman, if the other person lay hands on them first. We need to get over this weak, poor woman standard of thought. It's not even close to the case. I've seen tiny women take hits that have put some of the biggest men I know down. I'm just over it. Women have too much freedom in that respect of everyday life. She can punch, spit, kick, and totally disrespect me. But the minute I lose my cool and sock her, I'm such a villain that I should be locked up forever? Come on!!!!!

JJBroncoFan
08-12-2015, 01:52 PM
Not only did she hit him first, she also spit in his face……several times. I get the whole physical differences, but if that's the case, then a woman should already know not to put hands on a man. I have no issue with someone knocking the snot out of another person, be it man or woman, if the other person lay hands on them first. We need to get over this weak, poor woman standard of thought. It's not even close to the case. I've seen tiny women take hits that have put some of the biggest men I know down. I'm just over it. Women have too much freedom in that respect of everyday life. She can punch, spit, kick, and totally disrespect me. But the minute I lose my cool and sock her, I'm such a villain that I should be locked up forever? Come on!!!!!

This is kind of dangerous territory we're getting into at this point, yet I tend to agree more than disagree.

I absolutely believe a man should be able to defend himself from any attack regardless of the gender of the attacker. However, a man should also be able to keep himself level minded and meet the aggression in an appropriate way.

For example, being spit at and slapped could probably be walked away from, albeit red faced. Now if a woman takes a swing with a bat, she should probably expect to be seeing birdies assuming she misses. Men should conduct themselves as gentlemen and women should conduct themselves as ladies.

flosstein
08-12-2015, 03:31 PM
This is kind of dangerous territory we're getting into at this point, yet I tend to agree more than disagree.

I absolutely believe a man should be able to defend himself from any attack regardless of the gender of the attacker. However, a man should also be able to keep himself level minded and meet the aggression in an appropriate way.

For example, being spit at and slapped could probably be walked away from, albeit red faced. Now if a woman takes a swing with a bat, she should probably expect to be seeing birdies assuming she misses. Men should conduct themselves as gentlemen and women should conduct themselves as ladies.

That's the part of this whole saga that gets under my skin. They only showed the footage of her in casino where she was going ballistic on him once. He tried to walk away and just get her back to the room. the video of her getting knocked out is after almost 15mins of her attacking him and the casino security staff escorting them off the gambling floor because she was so out of control. So the whole story was swayed to push an agenda and vilify him and make her look like some battered woman. When in fact if u ever known a battered woman, she doesn't act like that.

JJBroncoFan
08-12-2015, 03:57 PM
That's the part of this whole saga that gets under my skin. They only showed the footage of her in casino where she was going ballistic on him once. He tried to walk away and just get her back to the room. the video of her getting knocked out is after almost 15mins of her attacking him and the casino security staff escorting them off the gambling floor because she was so out of control. So the whole story was swayed to push an agenda and vilify him and make her look like some battered woman. When in fact if u ever known a battered woman, she doesn't act like that.

On these points I couldn't agree more, this is the other side of domestic violence nobody wants to talk about. These double standards and trying to solve past inequalities by flipping them around today are tearing this country apart.

Domestic violence is a real problem, but it is also a weapon. A weapon commonly used for gain by women, who have no problems lying. If people don't want to hear that too bad. Plenty are living with the ramifications of being on the wrong side of it.

Edit: Just wanted to add to this that about 75% of all restraining orders issued in this country are deemed to be false, 85% of the petitioners are women, and they face little to no consequences for their actions.

fallforward3y+
08-13-2015, 01:50 AM
I agree with JJ in that this is dangerous territory, however I will comment on some things that have been said. I will say this, I do think that all instances shouldn't be grouped into the same category. It is one thing to say something isn't ok to do in retaliation, it's another thing to treat someone like they have no responsibility in a situation.

If a woman does hit a man first, then she shouldn't be treated like an innocent victim(depending on the 'aggressiveness' of the shot she took, I suppose...as a light slap isn't the same as being highly aggressive). Assaults by women on men should be punished. Even if it is the case that it may not hurt the man that much, doesn't mean it is ok to do.

That, and if someone is continually provoked, eventually they may snap. If it really is true that she continually was assaulting him for that long, then it is VERY hard to sympathize with her, and I don't think it's worth trying to. If he tried to walk away, that also makes it hard to play the 'he should have walked away' card to me, because it would mean he did try to, but that she insisted on keeping it going. I don't know if I'm going to say that would make it ok for him to do what, however that does seem a lot like 'asking for it'(not literally).

It shouldn't all be put on the same level, and in fact that is an insult to women who suffer from severe domestic violence. I know someone who had to move away from her house, in fear of her safety because her abusive ex boyfriend was out of jail. There likely women out there who get beaten close to death, and at times without even trying to provoke their boyfriends. Not to say that is justified just because someone tries to make you mad, don't misunderstand me, it's to show the degree of how abusive some people are, some of those guys may actually look for reasons to beat their wives.

If all you have to do is not hit someone to avoid being hit, you are not on the level of someone in a situation like that imo. If you actually follow someone assaulting them until they hit you, it's even more true imo. To say those two people are in the same boat is to me saying that if you follow someone assaulting them until they snap, your victimized just as much as someone who has to hide from their abuser.

That is the danger to me of fixating on the man/woman thing to the point where you think it's all on the same level as long as it's a man on a woman. I've heard arguments that allowing women to play sports with men sends 'mixed messages' about whether or not it's ok for a man to hit a woman...pretty sure the difference is...consensual sports match versus assault...hence, why high schools that suspend people for fighting spend lots of money on football and wrestling teams...not hard to understand imo.

I think at times, emotional responses may drive people to want to lump it all in together, but if I hear a story about a woman being abused severely, to me that highlights that there are different levels to it all, and to me it's an insult to what someone like that endures to act like a woman who follows a man assaulting him until he snaps is someone on the same level as far as being victimized.

JJBroncoFan
08-13-2015, 12:17 PM
I think everyone would agree that hurting those you are supposed to love is wrong. Furthermore, hurting anyone when not in self defense is wrong.

Unfortunately, that is only the narrative behind domestic violence, not the reality. To be clear it is a problem, and it absolutely needs to stop. However, to fix any issue you must be realistic about what the problem is. You cant insert bias into the problem just because it makes you feel better. The solution presently being used has created more victims than it has saved. Those involved in the development of those solutions should be ashamed of themselves yet they are celebrated by certain "groups."

Peanut
08-13-2015, 01:58 PM
With Arian Foster going down, Houston is in dire need of someone dynamic in the backfield. Could Ray Rice go to Houston?

Everyone makes mistakes... some bigger than others. Do you think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance?

This is the subject of this thread.

There is another thread that would be a better fit for some of these posts. If I find it, I will post the link to it.

Please keep this discussion to if you think Rice deserves a second chance in football/if he'll go to Houston.

Thanks.

EDIT: I found it. I was looking in the wrong forum. I guess that's what happens at 3AM. It's in P&R.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?230036-Ravens-Ray-Rice-arrested-Ravens-release-Rice&highlight=ray+rice