PDA

View Full Version : Re: Followup - Is the NFL an Entertainment Business Like the WWE



paycheckeffort
12-21-2015, 07:37 PM
Perhaps after what we've recently seen its time to revisit some of the eye opening comments mentioned in the thread:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

RunYouOver
12-21-2015, 07:45 PM
Again.

Yes, the NFL is an entertainment business. No, it's not like the WWE. No, it's not scripted. No, it's not fixed. No, refs aren't told to influence the game in certain ways. The only similarity is that it's a business that exists to make money by entertaining people.

If the NFL was fixed, it would be the greatest kept secret of all time. Think of all the people who would have to be in on that any given week. You don't think anyone would have ever thought that they had to say something, or thought about publishing a tell-all book, or anything.

The only reason ideas like this get any traction are because every year, fans of 97% of the teams end the season upset or angry. Crying conspiracy makes people feel better.

If it makes people feel better, that's great. Just bear in mind that saying things like that make you come off as either angry or dumb, or, more likely, both.

Pack Mules
12-21-2015, 07:46 PM
I don't think its scripted or fixed to the extent of the WWE, but something fishy is going on.

The NBA is fixed check the Lakers and Kings series the ref came out and admitted it

LSIGRAD09
12-21-2015, 08:17 PM
There are some weird things that have happened in the past few years. However, I don't really believe the situation is as bad as the writer claims.

He lost me at the Tebow stuff though. Sounded like he was ranting by then.

So, no, I don't put too much stock in the blog post.

Although, if OBJ's suspension is approved I'll be suspicious.

Not sure about a Pats-Panthers SB "The 18-0 team vs the team that couldn't get it done." That might make me somewhat suspicious.

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 08:25 PM
Thank you for bringing that thread back to our attention.

All anyone has to simply do is search "nfl fixing games" on youtube and the evidence is loud and clear.

diesel51
12-21-2015, 08:28 PM
I do not like conspiracy theories of any kind. Actually, that isn't true. I view them as entertainment, as I feel most others do too. But every once in a while I run into someone who believes, and I'm like, "Really? Really?"

Some people always have to have an excuse.

Please do not take this personally, OP, it is not. Just wanted to comment.

Rancid
12-21-2015, 08:28 PM
I don't want to believe it, but every year that goes by I believe it a little more. So do many others.

paycheckeffort
12-21-2015, 08:34 PM
There are some weird things that have happened in the past few years. However, I don't really believe the situation is as bad as the writer claims.

He lost me at the Tebow stuff though. Sounded like he was ranting by then.

So, no, I don't put too much stock in the blog post.

Although, if OBJ's suspension is approved I'll be suspicious.

Not sure about a Pats-Panthers SB "The 18-0 team vs the team that couldn't get it done." That might make me somewhat suspicious.

Corrected-That should have read "eye opening comments mentioned in the thread" rather than (only) "in the post"

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 08:49 PM
Taken from this website http://www.thefixisin.net/nfl2015.html BACK when we beat Green Bay this season...

This game and its coinciding broadcast may have been a bit of NFL propaganda, gearing the public up for a Manning & Co. Super Bowl...after they eliminate the "cheating" Patriots in a final Brady v. Manning playoff duel.

Hmmmmm.....

What COULD happen in the playoffs?

ELWAY421
12-21-2015, 08:49 PM
I don't believe it. If it was true Manning would have more rings! If you do believe it stop watching, cause what would be the point?

rst08tierney
12-21-2015, 08:54 PM
The NBA is fixed for a 7 game series. NFL, not so much

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 08:55 PM
From the same website -

So let me ponder a few things related to this:

What if Peyton Manning isn't really injured? Sure, his foot is in a walking boot, but as mentioned above, I never saw the man limp despite a torn tendon/ligament in his foot. What if the Broncos - and by extension, the league - is protecting him for the time being? The Broncos are already playoff bound, so why not put old man Manning on ice for a while and save him for when the games really count again? Osweiler appears to be the odd backup QB that can actually play NFL football...at least enough to keep the media asking questions about who should start, is Manning going to be traded, or retire, blah, blah, blah. But what if it's all a ruse intended to build suspense and interest until Manning's return for that final Super Bowl push?

rst08tierney
12-21-2015, 08:58 PM
From the same website -

So let me ponder a few things related to this:

What if Peyton Manning isn't really injured? Sure, his foot is in a walking boot, but as mentioned above, I never saw the man limp despite a torn tendon/ligament in his foot. What if the Broncos - and by extension, the league - is protecting him for the time being? The Broncos are already playoff bound, so why not put old man Manning on ice for a while and save him for when the games really count again? Osweiler appears to be the odd backup QB that can actually play NFL football...at least enough to keep the media asking questions about who should start, is Manning going to be traded, or retire, blah, blah, blah. But what if it's all a ruse intended to build suspense and interest until Manning's return for that final Super Bowl push?

I would tune in for this

RunYouOver
12-21-2015, 08:59 PM
From the same website -

So let me ponder a few things related to this:

What if Peyton Manning isn't really injured? Sure, his foot is in a walking boot, but as mentioned above, I never saw the man limp despite a torn tendon/ligament in his foot. What if the Broncos - and by extension, the league - is protecting him for the time being? The Broncos are already playoff bound, so why not put old man Manning on ice for a while and save him for when the games really count again? Osweiler appears to be the odd backup QB that can actually play NFL football...at least enough to keep the media asking questions about who should start, is Manning going to be traded, or retire, blah, blah, blah. But what if it's all a ruse intended to build suspense and interest until Manning's return for that final Super Bowl push?

I'm sorry but the more I read from that site the more I just start to laugh at it. Yeah, the NFL has a lot of questionable things happen and some of their decisions are shaky, at best. I think a lot of that has to do with who's in charge. Goodall has proven time and time again that he's not the brightest bulb, and a lot of people in power are more "football guys" rather than the type you typically expect to run a big company.

There's no "fix." It's entirely way too difficult to pull off and there's also no point to it; there's enough drama and excitement in the sport on its own. Officials aren't even paid that much. You really think they're all unanimously going to keep some big secret from everyone?

ELWAY421
12-21-2015, 09:01 PM
From the same website -

So let me ponder a few things related to this:

What if Peyton Manning isn't really injured? Sure, his foot is in a walking boot, but as mentioned above, I never saw the man limp despite a torn tendon/ligament in his foot. What if the Broncos - and by extension, the league - is protecting him for the time being? The Broncos are already playoff bound, so why not put old man Manning on ice for a while and save him for when the games really count again? Osweiler appears to be the odd backup QB that can actually play NFL football...at least enough to keep the media asking questions about who should start, is Manning going to be traded, or retire, blah, blah, blah. But what if it's all a ruse intended to build suspense and interest until Manning's return for that final Super Bowl push?


Well I guess when we and Manning miss this years superbowl we can put all of this to rest.

HUMCALC
12-21-2015, 09:11 PM
I think sometimes it's fixed. NE beating OAK with the tuck rule, and then winning the SB, just months after 9/11? The PITT/SEA SB, where the refs admit to being biased? NO winning the SB that close to Katrina, when MINN got screwed? A lot of coincidences going on

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 09:11 PM
Well I guess when we and Manning miss this years superbowl we can put all of this to rest.

Glad you have no faith in this team. I think we are still in it!

Even with your beloved Brock leading if he is?

$Broncos$
12-21-2015, 09:12 PM
HAHA I think thats a giant NO. Yet, If we win the Superbowl I might second guess myself.

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 09:13 PM
I'm sorry but the more I read from that site the more I just start to laugh at it. Yeah, the NFL has a lot of questionable things happen and some of their decisions are shaky, at best. I think a lot of that has to do with who's in charge. Goodall has proven time and time again that he's not the brightest bulb, and a lot of people in power are more "football guys" rather than the type you typically expect to run a big company.

There's no "fix." It's entirely way too difficult to pull off and there's also no point to it; there's enough drama and excitement in the sport on its own. Officials aren't even paid that much. You really think they're all unanimously going to keep some big secret from everyone?

The officials are paid enough and you can see the evidence throughout this season and in the past.

The officials look way too happy to announce game deciding calls don't they?

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 09:17 PM
I think sometimes it's fixed. NE beating OAK with the tuck rule, and then winning the SB, just months after 9/11? The PITT/SEA SB, where the refs admit to being biased? NO winning the SB that close to Katrina, when MINN got screwed? A lot of coincedences going on

It really is. Either it is extremely coincidental or it is indeed fixed to an extent.

ELWAY421
12-21-2015, 09:31 PM
Glad you have no faith in this team. I think we are still in it!

Even with your beloved Brock leading if he is?

You still think we can win it because you think it's fixed and you buy in to the propaganda?


Do you think you are a better fan than myself because you still think we can win it?

I wouldn't call him my beloved Brock, I like Brock, but I've stated many times I don't know if he's the future or not yet. I reserve judgment seeing how it's only been 5 games, but maybe you are a QB expert and see something that has made you make statements like "Brock has played his last snap with the Broncos unless it's next season". Something of that nature lol.

Lumiere
12-21-2015, 09:34 PM
I think sometimes it's fixed. NE beating OAK with the tuck rule, and then winning the SB, just months after 9/11? The PITT/SEA SB, where the refs admit to being biased? NO winning the SB that close to Katrina, when MINN got screwed? A lot of coincidences going on

I think there's unwritten "guidelines" that are applicable to subjective penalties. A receiver and a CB slapping at each other down field, and briefly tangling up...maybe it's offensive PI, maybe it's defensive PI, maybe it's not called. I'll wager dollars to donuts if team A is up by three touchdowns, the flag will be thrown against team A.

No conspiracy...just officials "deciding" what they saw.

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 09:37 PM
You still think we can win it because you think it's fixed and you buy in to the propaganda?


Do you think you you are a better fan than myself because you still think we can win it?

I wouldn't call him my beloved Brock, I like Brock, but I've stated many times I don't know if he's the future or not yet. I reserve judgment seeing how it's only been 5 games, but maybe you are a QB expert and see something that has made you make statements like "Brock has played his last snap with the Broncos unless it's next season". Something of that nature lol.

Absolutely not. I never said I was. We are all equals around here.

I just don't see a killer instinct in Brock yet. It may be there but not visible yet. Who knows. Kid could be a stud someday.

JBBronco1
12-21-2015, 09:38 PM
I have heard of that guy who has that "fix is in" website. Several years ago, on the Washington radio show The Sports Junkies, he said something about how Peyton had a frown on his face before SB 44 against the Saints, and he said that it may have been an indication that the league wanted him to throw the game.

On the PFRA (Pro Football Researcher's Association) forums, there was a long argument between Brian Tuohy and several of the people on that board:

http://www.profootballresearchers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2602&hilit=Brian+Tuohy

duhyaj
12-21-2015, 09:39 PM
It really is. Either it is extremely coincidental or it is indeed fixed to an extent.

Bettis getting his sb in Detroit where he grew up, the Giants who have ended almost all undefeated streaks in the nfl do it in a sb against the best offense ever at the time. Katrina and the saints, pats in 2001 when we needed patriotism the most... Seahawks when Microsoft signed huge deal with the league Seahawks owner is CEO of Microsoft... This ones for John... The second to solidify his first ballot career... Ray Lewis retirement party, Ravens getting one just as they re enter the league, the Bucs get gruden then beat the raiders who got rid of him, two black coaches go to super bowl, so one has to win, two harbaugh brothers in sb, pats with deflate gate and top story of the offseason where there were no other real stories deflate gate gate would not have mattered without sb win, packers win sb the year after farve retires from vikes. So many shady sbs recently.

And to those who say quit watching... Why? The wwf is a million dollar industry because people still want to see the performers and stories, I still want to see who they pick lol. I still have my favorite wrestlers ven though I know it's fake why not have a favorite team and hope it gets a win once in a while lol.

Chrissy
12-21-2015, 09:41 PM
It really is. Either it is extremely coincidental or it is indeed fixed to an extent.

Its fixed all the way around. The refs represent the NFL. To most of you the NFL is entertainment but really its a billion dollar business , Vegas makes it a trillion dollar business. ANY time there is a sport and gambling is done its controlled. Out comes are pre determined .These refs making these bone head calls are done because they are not stupid , they have to steer the game towards the over/ under .They don't do it on their own they have orders from their boss, the NFL . To much money involved.
Problem they are facing now is the mess they got caught up last year with the Pats..those deflated balls led to uncovering more things that were going on with questionable things the NFL itself was allowing. An article was written by ESPN that turned things on their heels..before people kind of whispered in the background NOW they are actually talking about it in foreground and its not a whisper anymore.
That's my 2 cents ..and the only time that its not fixed is when Peyton and the Broncos win..:P

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 09:57 PM
Don't know if this will stay here but it is worth a try...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoMk9f8BtE

Broncos-R-Great
12-21-2015, 10:00 PM
Is this thread serious??? People actually believe this?????

I'm selling the Golden Gate Bridge, pm me if you're interested in buying it.....

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 10:03 PM
Is this thread serious??? People actually believe this?????

I'm selling the Golden Gate Bridge, pm me if you're interested in buying it.....

Only if you have ocean front property in Arizona!!

Chrissy
12-21-2015, 10:07 PM
Is this thread serious??? People actually believe this?????

I'm selling the Golden Gate Bridge, pm me if you're interested in buying it.....

Patriots sure do..they have 4 reasons to believe..how many of those rings did they win honestly , if you had to guess?:D

Broncoholic JS
12-21-2015, 10:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrWHwS7zTDs

Now this one hurts...

fraguela09
12-21-2015, 10:15 PM
BAL v DEN game in 2013 was clearly rigged for Ray. Worst officiated game I've seen.

Chrissy
12-21-2015, 10:22 PM
BAL v DEN game in 2013 was clearly rigged for Ray. Worst officiated game I've seen.

Now watch the rest of those Raven playoff games and that SB..it was the definition of rigged.

Broncos-R-Great
12-21-2015, 10:28 PM
Patriots sure do..they have 4 reasons to believe..how many of those rings did they win honestly , if you had to guess?:D

http://images.latintimes.com/sites/latintimes.com/files/styles/pulse_embed_breakpoints_theme_lt_desktop_1x/public/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-deflategate-memes_1.jpg

Chrissy
12-21-2015, 10:31 PM
http://images.latintimes.com/sites/latintimes.com/files/styles/pulse_embed_breakpoints_theme_lt_desktop_1x/public/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-deflategate-memes_1.jpg

Lol lol That's about the truth of it..:P

xGIHavoc
12-22-2015, 12:08 AM
I think one of the biggest things that stands out to me was the "power outage" in the Super Bowl when the Harbaughs (story line enough) faced each other in Ray Lewis' final year (more story line). I can see it, but to what extent, I'm not so sure. That game was such a blowout, they probably tried to disrupt the Raven's momentum to keep it close but no cigar, and surprise surprise, it happened. The power company even stated it wasn't them and on the "customer's end" after the game.

Grandpa
12-22-2015, 12:16 AM
I would tune in for this
Ah, yes; but would you tune in for it if it were only available on PPV with Vince McMahon in the booth with Curt Gowdy and Howard Cosell look-alikes?


I think one of the biggest things that stands out to me was the "power outage" in the Super Bowl when the Harbaughs (story line enough) faced each other in Ray Lewis' final year (more story line). I can see it, but to what extent, I'm not so sure. That game was such a blowout, they probably tried to disrupt the Raven's momentum to keep it close but no cigar, and surprise surprise, it happened. The power company even stated it wasn't them and on the "customer's end" after the game.
Didn't Tom Bodett tell the NFL that Motel 6 would be happy to host the next SB? Might be a bit of a cramped venue, but at least they'd keep the light on for it.

baphamet
12-22-2015, 01:29 AM
Again.

Yes, the NFL is an entertainment business. No, it's not like the WWE. No, it's not scripted. No, it's not fixed. No, refs aren't told to influence the game in certain ways. The only similarity is that it's a business that exists to make money by entertaining people.

If the NFL was fixed, it would be the greatest kept secret of all time. Think of all the people who would have to be in on that any given week. You don't think anyone would have ever thought that they had to say something, or thought about publishing a tell-all book, or anything.

The only reason ideas like this get any traction are because every year, fans of 97% of the teams end the season upset or angry. Crying conspiracy makes people feel better.

If it makes people feel better, that's great. Just bear in mind that saying things like that make you come off as either angry or dumb, or, more likely, both.

this ^^

although i could see games being fixed by refs, it happened in the NBA. it's easy for a ref to call a holding penalty when he sees fit, there is a hold on almost every play anyways.

baphamet
12-22-2015, 01:38 AM
Don't know if this will stay here but it is worth a try...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoMk9f8BtE

tinfoil hat, that is all. that video states "here are the facts, you decide" then states all sorts of theories throughout the video :laugh: it was an interesting watch though.

games can be fixed to make money but not like that video is suggesting because then (like RYO eloquently described) you have tons of people in on the fix yet no whistle blower has ever come out and confirmed it?

seems legit.

Grandpa
12-22-2015, 04:29 AM
tinfoil hat, that is all. that video states "here are the facts, you decide" then states all sorts of theories throughout the video :laugh: it was an interesting watch though.

games can be fixed to make money but not like that video is suggesting because then (like RYO eloquently described) you have tons of people in on the fix yet no whistle blower has ever come out and confirmed it?

seems legit.
I'm with you on the tin-foil hat thing; in fact, in my initial comments on the subject, I even stated you'd have to put one on to pursue the idea.

As for tons of co-conspirators and no whistleblower, how long was pro wrestling around before the first wrestler came out and blew the whistle on the scripted matches? 20 yrs? 30 yrs? Not talking about just the television era; pro wrestling was in arenas and at county/state fairs for decades before TV started broadcasting the matches. Besides, pro football pay is just way too far over the top, too lucrative, for anyone to blow the whistle and give up all that money and benefits. Look at the concussion thing .... pro football players have been getting concussed since they started wearing leather helmets. How long was it before a player came forward and blew the whistle on what happened to concussed players vs what the NFL's policies were towards them?

Even after Aikmen's statement that he doesn't remember playing in the 1994 NFC Championship game, and after Merrill Hodge announced his retirement from the Bears in 1994 -- both men suffering concussions -- Paul Tagliabue blew off the issue as "pack journalism." It wasn't until 1999 when the NFL Retirement Board ruled that Mike Webster (Steelers and Chiefs) was permanently disabled due to head injuries sustained as an NFL player, that the depth and scope of the issue came to the public's attention. And it was NOT because the NFL released the news; it was discovered after some judicious digging by two ESPN reporters. In 2000, Jerry Jones even stated publicly that he'd tell Aikman to ignore concussion concerns if it was a "key game."

The NFL is rife with cover-ups, denials, and less-than-honest discussion of issues. Band aids are the answer; no higher medical procedure is needed. And if the band aids don't do the trick, deny the problem even exists. It's a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry, and the $$$$$ talks the loudest.

Okay, I've taken off my tin-foil hat now. :beer:

bronx_2003
12-22-2015, 07:11 AM
Again.

Yes, the NFL is an entertainment business. No, it's not like the WWE. No, it's not scripted. No, it's not fixed. No, refs aren't told to influence the game in certain ways. The only similarity is that it's a business that exists to make money by entertaining people.

If the NFL was fixed, it would be the greatest kept secret of all time. Think of all the people who would have to be in on that any given week. You don't think anyone would have ever thought that they had to say something, or thought about publishing a tell-all book, or anything.

The only reason ideas like this get any traction are because every year, fans of 97% of the teams end the season upset or angry. Crying conspiracy makes people feel better.

If it makes people feel better, that's great. Just bear in mind that saying things like that make you come off as either angry or dumb, or, more likely, both.

This. Agree completely. There will always be people who love conspiracy theories and believe UFO's are flying all over the place, best to just let them get on with it.

A lot of it boils down to the bit I bolded.

darryn16
12-22-2015, 09:06 AM
Absolutely not. I never said I was. We are all equals around here.

I just don't see a killer instinct in Brock yet. It may be there but not visible yet. Who knows. Kid could be a stud someday.

I don't see a killer instinct in Manning either; unless by killer you mean kill his own team with multiple interceptions......

baphamet
12-22-2015, 11:14 PM
I'm with you on the tin-foil hat thing; in fact, in my initial comments on the subject, I even stated you'd have to put one on to pursue the idea.

As for tons of co-conspirators and no whistleblower, how long was pro wrestling around before the first wrestler came out and blew the whistle on the scripted matches? 20 yrs? 30 yrs? Not talking about just the television era; pro wrestling was in arenas and at county/state fairs for decades before TV started broadcasting the matches. Besides, pro football pay is just way too far over the top, too lucrative, for anyone to blow the whistle and give up all that money and benefits. Look at the concussion thing .... pro football players have been getting concussed since they started wearing leather helmets. How long was it before a player came forward and blew the whistle on what happened to concussed players vs what the NFL's policies were towards them?

my only answer to that is...people are idiots? if you look at pro wrestling, it's painfully obvious they are not really fighting. i as a kid thought it was real and loved it, but when you find out its fake its not really that hard to see it.

the NFL isn't fake, it's real competition. also guys never said anything about concussions because they didn't want to be taken out of games like they do now.


Even after Aikmen's statement that he doesn't remember playing in the 1994 NFC Championship game, and after Merrill Hodge announced his retirement from the Bears in 1994 -- both men suffering concussions -- Paul Tagliabue blew off the issue as "pack journalism." It wasn't until 1999 when the NFL Retirement Board ruled that Mike Webster (Steelers and Chiefs) was permanently disabled due to head injuries sustained as an NFL player, that the depth and scope of the issue came to the public's attention. And it was NOT because the NFL released the news; it was discovered after some judicious digging by two ESPN reporters. In 2000, Jerry Jones even stated publicly that he'd tell Aikman to ignore concussion concerns if it was a "key game."

The NFL is rife with cover-ups, denials, and less-than-honest discussion of issues. Band aids are the answer; no higher medical procedure is needed. And if the band aids don't do the trick, deny the problem even exists. It's a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry, and the $$$$$ talks the loudest.

Okay, I've taken off my tin-foil hat now. :beer:

i'm not saying games cant be fixed, just not in the way that video suggests. i am 100% confident that there are not games with entire teams being behind a fix....there are too many players that could easily say something, retired players for that matter who are disgruntled and there are plenty of those to go around.

i think the most likely scenario is some games have been fixed by the refs or possibly a player or two who were corrupt. but hey, that's just my guess.

JT24Champ
12-23-2015, 12:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrWHwS7zTDs

Now this one hurts...

maybe its just me but im not getting this?

what are they showing?

Grandpa
12-23-2015, 04:38 AM
my only answer to that is...people are idiots? if you look at pro wrestling, it's painfully obvious they are not really fighting. i as a kid thought it was real and loved it, but when you find out its fake its not really that hard to see it.
That was my point in mentioning wrestling. You "thought" it was real, when all along it wasn't. As you grew, your ability to see through the smoke and mirrors grew, too. Now (with your tin foil hat on) move that over to the current version of the NFL .... how many dropped passes? how many missed FGs all to the right? how many no-calls when there should have been calls vs how many calls that should NOT have been calls? Until the smoke clears and the mirrors break, it sure "appears" to be a mounting pile of evidence. Again, remember that all of my comments are predicated on us having our tin foil hats on. I personally don't think the games are fixed; we're (all 32 teams) just victims of incompetent officiating, some coaches who should never have become coaches, some players who should never have been drafted or signed, talking heads who get paid to "fertilize" the fans, and an idiot at the helm of the NFL. But, with my handy tin foil hat nearby, I can see some of the arguments on the other side. I just don't believe them ..... yet.

My concussion discussion merely emphasized that what the NFL says "officially" can't be trusted, as in the case of Tagliabue's "pack journalism" comment, proven to be BS just 5 years later when Webster was officially declared to be permanently disabled, SPECIFICALLY due to head injuries sustained over his career. Then there's Jerry Jones' statement about ignoring concussion concerns if it's a "key" game. Game play is of secondary (if it's even that high on the list) importance to the NFL; the primary concern is the $$$$$, so take any official pronouncement with the proverbial grain of salt. Ask yourself if that announcement benefits the game, or the owners' wallets?

Just keep that tin foil hat handy, just in case. :thumb:

baphamet
12-23-2015, 09:42 AM
That was my point in mentioning wrestling. You "thought" it was real, when all along it wasn't. As you grew, your ability to see through the smoke and mirrors grew, too. Now (with your tin foil hat on) move that over to the current version of the NFL .... how many dropped passes? how many missed FGs all to the right? how many no-calls when there should have been calls vs how many calls that should NOT have been calls? Until the smoke clears and the mirrors break, it sure "appears" to be a mounting pile of evidence. Again, remember that all of my comments are predicated on us having our tin foil hats on. I personally don't think the games are fixed; we're (all 32 teams) just victims of incompetent officiating, some coaches who should never have become coaches, some players who should never have been drafted or signed, talking heads who get paid to "fertilize" the fans, and an idiot at the helm of the NFL. But, with my handy tin foil hat nearby, I can see some of the arguments on the other side. I just don't believe them ..... yet.

My concussion discussion merely emphasized that what the NFL says "officially" can't be trusted, as in the case of Tagliabue's "pack journalism" comment, proven to be BS just 5 years later when Webster was officially declared to be permanently disabled, SPECIFICALLY due to head injuries sustained over his career. Then there's Jerry Jones' statement about ignoring concussion concerns if it's a "key" game. Game play is of secondary (if it's even that high on the list) importance to the NFL; the primary concern is the $$$$$, so take any official pronouncement with the proverbial grain of salt. Ask yourself if that announcement benefits the game, or the owners' wallets?

Just keep that tin foil hat handy, just in case. :thumb:

apples and oranges. when i found out pro wrestling wasn't real fighting you can clearly see the fake punches and all that jazz. like i said before, the NFL isn't fake like that, it's real competition. so even though people point these things out it just comes off as most likely paranoia and speculation at best, nothing close to the obvious fact that wrestling is fake.

i agree that some things could be fixed in the NFL like i pointed out before, a kicker could be corrupt and try to miss FG's? it's possible but would a missed FG be the sole reason a team looses? to truly be a fixed game where the people who fixed it have absolute control on the outcome, the entire team would have to be involved.

except for refs....refs calling opportunistic penalties all game could indeed change the outcome of the game or at the very least make it extremely difficult for the other team to win, if they were dirty.

i'm just saying i would be totally shocked if mass amounts of players were in on fixed games over the years and nobody has stepped forward to admit it....especially in this information age.

like i said before, lots of disgruntled ex NFL players who feel the NFL got over on them, wouldn't they have much to gain by blowing the whistle on this?

i know you are just playing devils advocate and just considering the possibility, so am i. but i just don't think a scenario where mass amount of players are involved is very likely.

that's just the way i see it.

fallforward3y+
12-26-2015, 04:27 AM
Again.

Yes, the NFL is an entertainment business. No, it's not like the WWE. No, it's not scripted. No, it's not fixed. No, refs aren't told to influence the game in certain ways. The only similarity is that it's a business that exists to make money by entertaining people.

If the NFL was fixed, it would be the greatest kept secret of all time. Think of all the people who would have to be in on that any given week. You don't think anyone would have ever thought that they had to say something, or thought about publishing a tell-all book, or anything.

The only reason ideas like this get any traction are because every year, fans of 97% of the teams end the season upset or angry. Crying conspiracy makes people feel better.

If it makes people feel better, that's great. Just bear in mind that saying things like that make you come off as either angry or dumb, or, more likely, both.

LOL! This is brilliant, you deserve a cookie, said very well. I do think it may have to do with fans being bitter, I imagine there are fans of every team who think the NFL is out to get them. Did they get some bad calls their way, probably, but were they the only team that had them, probably not. They may focus on the calls against their team, and probably not as much as the calls against other teams.

The bottom line to me is that the NFL doesn't need to fix games for the game to be popular, and there is a BIG risk of it being found out, as you said. Why create that risk of losing fans, and add the work of fixing games when you could let them play out?

The WWE is different than the NFL, their product is better if they rig matches. Their fan base has a lot of people who aren't fans of 'let it play out, opponents trying to win' sports, who are fine watching a sport that isn't like that.

They want to have wow factor moves, to make it look like they are beating each other up bad, and they want to have matches play out for story lines. In 'real combat' wrestling or fighting, fundamentals would likely make it very hard to execute many of the moves they do on an opponent, fixing a match to have them stage them is better. They have matches each episode, and 'The Authority' can declare a match a WWE title match if they want to, without an opponent having to qualify. They declare a match a title match if it makes a good story.

In the NFL though it is different, fans expect a 'trying to win competitive' sport. If it doesn't appear that way it would likely turn them off. It doesn't make sense to rig games.

fallforward3y+
12-26-2015, 04:55 AM
apples and oranges. when i found out pro wrestling wasn't real fighting you can clearly see the fake punches and all that jazz. like i said before, the NFL isn't fake like that, it's real competition. so even though people point these things out it just comes off as most likely paranoia and speculation at best, nothing close to the obvious fact that wrestling is fake.

i agree that some things could be fixed in the NFL like i pointed out before, a kicker could be corrupt and try to miss FG's? it's possible but would a missed FG be the sole reason a team looses? to truly be a fixed game where the people who fixed it have absolute control on the outcome, the entire team would have to be involved.

except for refs....refs calling opportunistic penalties all game could indeed change the outcome of the game or at the very least make it extremely difficult for the other team to win, if they were dirty.

i'm just saying i would be totally shocked if mass amounts of players were in on fixed games over the years and nobody has stepped forward to admit it....especially in this information age.

like i said before, lots of disgruntled ex NFL players who feel the NFL got over on them, wouldn't they have much to gain by blowing the whistle on this?

i know you are just playing devils advocate and just considering the possibility, so am i. but i just don't think a scenario where mass amount of players are involved is very likely.

that's just the way i see it.

Pretty much. I've been around football awhile, it's not too hard to imagine any of these things happening without the NFL being fixed.

I watch WWE, I remember seeing the Undertaker tombstone Brock Lesnar driving his head into the floorboard, then have Lesnar come back and win the match. If that actually happens to you, you probably die or are in a coma. That type of thing seems far more 'unbelievable'.

I personally think bad calls are BADLY overblown lately, and personally I doubt officiating really is any worse than it was say, 7 seasons ago. The majority of calls are probably called correctly, but when they are wrong they are blown up. People have an expectation for there to be perfect officiating, it just probably won't happen. Refs are human, calls will likely be missed. It isn't really that hard to imagine.

Dropped passes also, I mean come on really? If that is used as evidence of the NFL it's becoming pretty ridiculous. A WR is thinking about a lot of things-find open space, getting away from a defender, what they'll do after the catch, running their route etc.-they may forget about turning their head quick enough, not have good focus in the moment etc. It's very easy to believe an NFL caliber WR may have a dropped passes problem.