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montee2ball
02-06-2016, 09:19 AM
Good luck to Terrell Davis, Steve Atwater and John Lynch today. Each of you are deserving of this honor and maybe one day ALL of you will gain entrance. Unfortunately, it's a shame that only 4 Broncos have made it thus far and that the Broncos are tied for the most SB appearances (8) in history. So let's hope at least one gets in today. (1) T. Davis, (2) S. Atwater and (3) J. Lynch.

Apatsfan22
02-06-2016, 09:52 AM
Atwater just has to get in.

CDUB1620
02-06-2016, 10:18 AM
Your right, Atwater better get in. I'm still puzzled and upset that Dennis Smith keeps getting snubbed...smh

Dennis.1960
02-06-2016, 10:49 AM
Your right, Atwater better get in. I'm still puzzled and upset that Dennis Smith keeps getting snubbed...smh

I loved watching "Gumby" ring people's bells, but I think Smith will never get seriously considered. While he was just as great a hitter as his contemporary Ronnie Lott, he was too injury prone. Atwater could hit just as hard as Smith, but was elected to more pro bowls, was more durable, and has that highlight film career hit knocking Christian Okoye backwards...oh ya, and he was all over the field in our 1st SB win completely flattening Packers unfortunate enough to cross his path the whole game. Ya, I'd love to see them both get in but if electing Atwater has been a struggle, there's no way Dennis Smith has a chance.

GiddyupGetEm
02-06-2016, 11:55 AM
Terrell is an underdog going against the HOF Cartel which values longevity over greatness.

If TD doesn't get in, I am pushing for a complete restructuring of the HOF Selection Committee to add players and coaches, and end lifetime appointments.

Butler By'Note
02-06-2016, 01:03 PM
Terrell is an underdog going against the HOF Cartel which values longevity over greatness.

If TD doesn't get in, I am pushing for a complete restructuring of the HOF Selection Committee to add players and coaches, and end lifetime appointments.

Yep. TD is statistically the best RB in NFL playoff history, had his biggest games on the biggest stage and his 8 playoff games put together are better than any 8 game stretch any NFL RB has ever had (Peterson a couple of years ago is considered the best stretch, TD's playoff stats are better than that) but he can't get in because his career was short. Meanwhile Jerome Bettis was never considered one of the 5 best RBs in the game, and only had a couple of really dynamic seasons, but was mediocre for a really long time, so he gets in. Ridiculous.

CDUB1620
02-06-2016, 01:09 PM
Yep. TD is statistically the best RB in NFL playoff history, had his biggest games on the biggest stage and his 8 playoff games put together are better than any 8 game stretch any NFL RB has ever had (Peterson a couple of years ago is considered the best stretch, TD's playoff stats are better than that) but he can't get in because his career was short. Meanwhile Jerome Bettis was never considered one of the 5 best RBs in the game, and only had a couple of really dynamic seasons, but was mediocre for a really long time, so he gets in. Ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more.

VenomousDB
02-06-2016, 01:09 PM
It makes me sick that Bettis got in.

I have a good feeling for TD this year!!!!

CDUB1620
02-06-2016, 01:11 PM
I loved watching "Gumby" ring people's bells, but I think Smith will never get seriously considered. While he was just as great a hitter as his contemporary Ronnie Lott, he was too injury prone. Atwater could hit just as hard as Smith, but was elected to more pro bowls, was more durable, and has that highlight film career hit knocking Christian Okoye backwards...oh ya, and he was all over the field in our 1st SB win completely flattening Packers unfortunate enough to cross his path the whole game. Ya, I'd love to see them both get in but if electing Atwater has been a struggle, there's no way Dennis Smith has a chance.

Great points, but there are alot of players I want in that might not be deserving. That's why average people don't make the decisions.

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 01:17 PM
Good luck to Terrell Davis, Steve Atwater and John Lynch today. Each of you are deserving of this honor and maybe one day ALL of you will gain entrance. Unfortunately, it's a shame that only 4 Broncos have made it thus far and that the Broncos are tied for the most SB appearances (8) in history. So let's hope at least one gets in today. (1) T. Davis, (2) S. Atwater and (3) J. Lynch.

I really don't think John Lynch deserves the HoF. Very good player but not one of the all time greats, imo.

Butler By'Note
02-06-2016, 01:17 PM
It makes me sick that Bettis got in.

I have a good feeling for TD this year!!!!

No matter who else gets in down the road, Jerome Bettis will always be the least qualified player in Canton.

ArchAngel
02-06-2016, 01:20 PM
What time are the HOF selections announced?

Dennis.1960
02-06-2016, 01:22 PM
Great points, but there are alot of players I want in that might not be deserving. That's why average people don't make the decisions.

Ya, and if it was up to me nearly our entire D from the '84-'88 seasons would be in Canton :laugh:

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 01:38 PM
It makes me sick that Bettis got in.

I have a good feeling for TD this year!!!!

OMG, I have so much resentment over Bettis being in that I just want to punch him whenever I see him. I know that probably makes me a horrible person but I can't help it. He WAS NOT THAT GOOD.

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 01:42 PM
What time are the HOF selections announced?

I think 9 pm eastern on CBS but could be wrong

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 01:45 PM
Tony Dungy is another one who does not deserve this honor, imo. How he got in the list of finalists alongside Don Coryall is beyond me.

montee2ball
02-06-2016, 02:09 PM
The only lock is Favre. That leaves 4 spots among the 14 left.

gtown53
02-06-2016, 02:17 PM
I gave up on the hof when Randy Gradishar didn't make it in.

At this point, I classify the hof way up there with the yearly "Pro-bowl".

The way it's run makes it totally meaningless.

GiddyupGetEm
02-06-2016, 02:32 PM
I gave up on the hof when Randy Gradishar didn't make it in.

At this point, I classify the hof way up there with the yearly "Pro-bowl".

The way it's run makes it totally meaningless.

Your point is valid, but it shouldn't be like that. Everyone knows the Pro Bowl is a sham. But only fans of Broncos, Seahawks, Bengals, New Orleans, and a few other teams recognize the sham that is the Selection Committee. Every other team has decent representation, So they think the HOF is legitimate.

The Selection Committee is a cartel of football journalists who have never played and don't necessarily even know the Xs and Os well enough to identify greatness. The Cartel trades votes, protects local interests and holds grudges, just like Congress does.

montee2ball
02-06-2016, 02:37 PM
I gave up on the hof when Randy Gradishar didn't make it in.

At this point, I classify the hof way up there with the yearly "Pro-bowl".

The way it's run makes it totally meaningless.

Agree 100%. And if Kevin Greene makes it, it's a sham.

Dennis.1960
02-06-2016, 02:41 PM
Tony Dungy is another one who does not deserve this honor, imo. How he got in the list of finalists alongside Don Coryall is beyond me.

I thought the same thing. Seems a decent guy but I figure the only reason Dungy is even considered is his current gig as a tv analyst...without seeing him every week most football people would probably have forgotten all about him.

HUMCALC
02-06-2016, 04:31 PM
Tony Dungy installed a brand new D & was the first black coach to win a SB. Add that to his son dying, and whether you like it or not, he's going in

Rod Smith & Elam are also getting screwed royally

Is Bettis more, less, or equally deserving as Curtis Martin?

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 05:08 PM
Tony Dungy installed a brand new D & was the first black coach to win a SB. Add that to his son dying, and whether you like it or not, he's going in

Rod Smith & Elam are also getting screwed royally

Is Bettis more, less, or equally deserving as Curtis Martin?

I highly doubt Dungy gets in this year. The first black coach to win a SB should have no bearing on anything. Doug Williams isn't in, why should Dungy? Dungy wasn't a game changing innovator and was a marginal winning coach. He was about .500 in TB and the season after he was fired, Gruden took TB to the SB and won while Dungy went to Indy and rode the coattails of Manning. He doesn't even belong on the finalist list, imo.

MHOC
02-06-2016, 05:26 PM
Hearing Anderson didn't make it

Hearing Farve and Harrison have

MHOC
02-06-2016, 05:37 PM
The awards show starts in 30 min so every think will be leaked out before you see it on tv

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 05:39 PM
The awards show starts in 30 min so every think will be leaked out before you see it on tv

Starts at 9:00 eastern so another hour and 20 minutes. But I hope it's leaked soon.

Butler By'Note
02-06-2016, 05:45 PM
Tony Dungy installed a brand new D & was the first black coach to win a SB. Add that to his son dying, and whether you like it or not, he's going in

Rod Smith & Elam are also getting screwed royally

Is Bettis more, less, or equally deserving as Curtis Martin?

By Dungy's own admission the "Tampa 2" is actually straight form the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers playbook. He admits that he laughs when he hears "Tampa 2" because it's Chuck Noll that came up with it and Dungy said he changed next to nothing from it.

I get that Tony Dungy was the first black coach to win the SB, but does that by itself make him hall of fame worthy? To me that actually sets things back and is condescending to African American coaches.

Is a record of 139-69 along with 9-10 in the playoffs really hall of fame worthy? Do you consider Bill Cowher to be a hall of fame coach? He was 149-90-1, 12-9 in the playoffs, and won a Super Bowl losing in another. If Dungy gets in Cowher needs to get in as well.

Tony Dungy had a great career and was a good coach, but I think he falls short of the hall of fame.

MHOC
02-06-2016, 05:57 PM
Dungy
DeBartalo
Stabler

As well

Dennis.1960
02-06-2016, 05:59 PM
Is a record of 139-69 along with 9-10 in the playoffs really hall of fame worthy? Do you consider Bill Cowher to be a hall of fame coach? He was 149-90-1, 12-9 in the playoffs, and won a Super Bowl losing in another. If Dungy gets in Cowher needs to get in as well.


That's the problem with the HoF...or the baseball HoF...or even the rock and roll HoF. Someone with marginal credentials gets voted in (for whatever well meaning intention...maybe an emotional favorite), then everyone else who was marginal needs to get in as well or it's unfair. After a few years of that the bar is so low that the only people who don't get in are the ones that can't win the vote givers popularity contest making the whole HoF meaningless.

Apatsfan22
02-06-2016, 06:00 PM
Yeah not in to Dungy going in. It's basically, he won a Superbowl and is uber popular in NFL circles. Seems like a great guy just...don't care about that for HoF.
I think LeBeau (even as a coordinator) and BB are the only coaches active I'd put in.

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:01 PM
Yeah not in to Dungy going in. It's basically, he won a Superbowl and is uber popular in NFL circles. Seems like a great guy just...don't care about that for HoF.
I think LeBeau (even as a coordinator) and BB are the only coaches active I'd put in.

I agree. The HoF should be fore the greats. Dungy was not a great.

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:05 PM
Apparently Harrison as well.:sad:

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:07 PM
It's official. TD tweeted that he didn't make it.

EDIT: it was TO not TD that tweeted. Sorry.

MHOC
02-06-2016, 06:08 PM
TO didn't make it

Hearing Kevin Greene is in

So
1. Farve
2. Harrison
3. Dungy
4. Greene
5. Pace?

BIGB83
02-06-2016, 06:10 PM
Mike Klis says no Broncos made it...like usual..8 superbowl appearances and 4 hofers. ..makes sense

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:10 PM
TO didn't make it

Hearing Kevin Greene is in

So
1. Farve
2. Harrison
3. Dungy
4. Greene
5. Pace?

This to me would be a very weak class. Ugh.

Butler By'Note
02-06-2016, 06:13 PM
Apparently Dungy and Debartlo both got in. Stabler and Favre as well

MHOC
02-06-2016, 06:14 PM
Yea and guess what LT is up for it next year so TD might have to wait till he gets in

It's a joke

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:15 PM
Harrison over Owens is an absolute joke.

Sam_Z
02-06-2016, 06:15 PM
Green
Dungy
Pace

Over TD, Lynch and Warner smh Vince McMahon must be charge of these garbage votes, he inducted drew careu and Arnold Swartzenegger into his pro wrestling hall of fame.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 06:16 PM
At least Owens did not make it.

He will get in, but there's no way he should be a 1st-ballot HoFer.

SMR81
02-06-2016, 06:17 PM
Did OZ make it?

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:19 PM
Green
Dungy
Pace

Over TD, Lynch and Warner smh Vince McMahon must be charge of these garbage votes, he inducted drew careu and Arnold Swartzenegger into his pro wrestling hall of fame.

It is a joke.

OrangeCrush_304
02-06-2016, 06:20 PM
What an embarrassment this "hall of fame" is

assassin216
02-06-2016, 06:20 PM
At least Owens did not make it.

He will get in, but there's no way he should be a 1st-ballot HoFer.


Why not,he has better numbers than Harrison

roushmartin6
02-06-2016, 06:24 PM
What a joke, and I thought last year's class was weak. 8 superbowl appearances and only 4 members, guess we just got super lucky 8 times with a bunch of scrubs. The hall of fame committee needs some new voters who don't just look for the east coast teams before going through the rest

RocketArm006
02-06-2016, 06:31 PM
I really don't see how Dungy makes it in. He didn't innovate anything. Sure, a SB win, but he didn't do anything worthy of HOF induction, IMO.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 06:31 PM
Why not,he has better numbers than Harrison

Why not?

Football is known as the ultimate team game and, in the end, you're playing as a team for championships. I don't remember Harrison making trouble wherever he went, changing uniforms from team to team and still acting like an idiot. The distractions, the public arguments with teammates, all that stuff did not help Owens' teams compete for championships. He was all about himself. Stats aside, he does not represent what football is really about. Marvin Harrison helped his team become a contender and win a championship. Owens helped his teams get sick of him and ship him away.

VADER72
02-06-2016, 06:35 PM
Atwater should have gotten in, what a shame. TD maybe the next year or two

JBBronco1
02-06-2016, 06:36 PM
Why not?

Football is known as the ultimate team game and, in the end, you're playing as a team for championships. I don't remember Harrison making trouble wherever he went, changing uniforms from team to team and still acting like an idiot. The distractions, the public arguments with teammates, all that stuff did not help Owens' teams compete for championships. He was all about himself. Stats aside, he does not represent what football is really about. Marvin Harrison helped his team become a contender and win a championship. Owens helped his teams get sick of him and ship him away.

Marvin Harrison was also a choke artist in the playoffs. He shouldn't be in for a few more years or so.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 06:37 PM
Marvin Harrison was also a choke artist in the playoffs. He shouldn't be in for a few more years or so.

Then the same should be applied to Brett Favre.

one_bad_55
02-06-2016, 06:38 PM
I will NEVER go to the HOF for a visit until they can show that they will take the blinders off. If you are not on one of the favored or eastern teams you will not get into the HOF.

Our Broncos have been over looked for years and they should be ashamed as the players that they CONTINUE to ignore on the Broncos are better than a lot of players already in the hall.

HOF IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!

RocketArm006
02-06-2016, 06:39 PM
TD, Atwater and Gradishar deserve it more than TO, Harrison and Dungy combined.

FlowdaBroncoFan
02-06-2016, 06:41 PM
At least Owens did not make it.

He will get in, but there's no way he should be a 1st-ballot HoFer.

Why not? Dude is top 5-10 in all major receiving categories. Like he is #3 in yards.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 06:43 PM
Why not? Dude is top 5-10 in all major receiving categories. Like he is #3 in yards.

And he's like #1 in creating chaos in his own locker room.

Chillez
02-06-2016, 06:43 PM
Wow not one Denver Bronco player made it what a joke HOF voting community can suck it!!! This is disgrace shameful...

Chillez
02-06-2016, 06:46 PM
And he's like #1 in creating chaos in his own locker room.

TO was always team cancer but honestly other than Moss and Rice he is best WR I have ever seen play he has everything you look for numbers, pro bowls, all he is missing is championship.

assassin216
02-06-2016, 06:51 PM
Why not?

Football is known as the ultimate team game and, in the end, you're playing as a team for championships. I don't remember Harrison making trouble wherever he went, changing uniforms from team to team and still acting like an idiot. The distractions, the public arguments with teammates, all that stuff did not help Owens' teams compete for championships. He was all about himself. Stats aside, he does not represent what football is really about. Marvin Harrison helped his team become a contender and win a championship. Owens helped his teams get sick of him and ship him away.


And he's like #1 in creating chaos in his own locker room.



The Hall of Fame is about what you did on the field not what you did off of it....this is why we have lame duck writers when it comes to voting,because they allow their emotions get to them when it comes putting someone in the Hall of Fame.

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:52 PM
The Hall of Fame is about what you did on the field not what you did off of it....this is why we have lame duck writers when it comes to voting,because they allow their emotions get to them when it comes putting someone in the Hall of Fame.

Exactly. Granted, they did overlook Eddie DeBartolo's off the field/criminal issues.

VenomousDB
02-06-2016, 06:55 PM
I'm legitimately pissed off right now. Such disrespect.

DenverBrian
02-06-2016, 06:56 PM
Makes me want Denver to win that much more tomorrow.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 07:01 PM
The Hall of Fame is about what you did on the field not what you did off of it....this is why we have lame duck writers when it comes to voting,because they allow their emotions get to them when it comes putting someone in the Hall of Fame.

When you always put yourself ahead of the team and create tension with your teammates, you surely make a negative impact on what happens on the field... I've heard there was a spirited debate about Owens and I'm sure it revolved around his selfish act that, several times, hurt more than it helped his team.

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame? Or Hall of Stats? If it's only about stats, then there should not even have a voting session. Just see who's eligible, count their stats and put them in Canton.

Broncoholic JS
02-06-2016, 07:06 PM
Hope we shut the Panthers out tomorrow now to make a statement. So gutted for TD. He is used so much by the NFL Network as a puppet. Man DESERVES to be in HOF.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 07:08 PM
If all that matters is stats and what you did on the field, then I can't wait to hear Darren Sharper's HoF speech...

assassin216
02-06-2016, 07:14 PM
When you always put yourself ahead of the team and create tension with your teammates, you surely make a negative impact on what happens on the field... I've heard there was a spirited debate about Owens and I'm sure it revolved around his selfish act that, several times, hurt more than it helped his team.

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame? Or Hall of Stats? If it's only about stats, then there should not even have a voting session. Just see who's eligible, count their stats and put them in Canton.



So you're telling me that Terrell Owens was never consider one of the best receiver in the league,because that's what you're saying....And again,what does his antics have to do with the Hall of Fame.

You can't say the Hall of Fame is for players who did great on the field and then change the rules when someone you don't like is getting considered.

I find it hilarious folks have no problem with Brett Favre holding a team hostage for 3 years,but have a problem about a player that speak his mind...makes no sense at all.

montee2ball
02-06-2016, 07:15 PM
Who would have thought Kevin Greene would get in before Gradishar. The NFL has to get these old farts out of there. They are ruining the integrity of the game. Dungy? Tom Flores wins 2 SBs and can't a sniff. That HOF committee is BS.

floridabroncos
02-06-2016, 07:18 PM
Hope Denver uses this further disrespect as more fuel tomorrow. Hell, I want Atwater and TD leading the fire up tomorrow pre-game.

Pubs07
02-06-2016, 07:23 PM
Too bad TD and Atwater and Gradishar for that matter didn't play for the Steelers or Cowboys, would have been a done deal already.

-Rod-
02-06-2016, 07:24 PM
So you're telling me that Terrell Owens was never consider one of the best receiver in the league,because that's what you're saying....

No, I'm saying the voters considered his production as one of the best WRs in the game (and that's why he was a finalist), but the voters also considered all the times he contributed negatively to his teams and the league.

HurricaneDovs
02-06-2016, 07:25 PM
Unbelievable that a team that has gone to 8 Super Bowls, has only 4 Broncos in the Hall.

This is ridiculous. Use it tomorrow boys. Let's take this one and shove it down everyone's throats.

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 07:27 PM
I am so pissed right now. What a joke and an embarrassment this HOF selection committee is. You suck.

I tried not to get my hopes up and did. Heard TD, Atwater and Lynch say is was an honor to be nominated. But I could tell TD was really hopeful this year.

As I was listening to them I kept saying to myself, they don't let Broncos into the HOF. So disappointed for him.

floridabroncos
02-06-2016, 07:28 PM
Unbelievable that a team that has gone to 8 Super Bowls, has only 4 Broncos in the Hall.

This is ridiculous. Use it tomorrow boys. Let's take this one and shove it down everyone's throats.

And then urinate on the NFL logo on the way out as a bird flip to the HoF

floridabroncos
02-06-2016, 07:33 PM
I am so pissed right now. What a joke and an embarrassment this HOF selection committee is. You suck.

I tried not to get my hopes up and did. Heard TD, Atwater and Lynch say is was an honor to be nominated. But I could tell TD was really hopeful this year.

As I was listening to them I kept saying to myself, they don't let Broncos into the HOF. So disappointed for him.

You can argue that without Peyton, Dungy is an average coach (couldn't get the same group of guys as Gruden to the Super Bowl). You can argue that without Peyton, Harrison is an average WR and didn't even have good playoff stats. You can argue that Favre, Greene, and Stabler all belong. But to diss TD and let Harrison in before him when Harrison didn't even do crap in the playoffs and TD was money in the playoffs is a joke.

BHPizza
02-06-2016, 07:33 PM
I am absolutely furious right now. Bunch of biased clowns.

Blanket24
02-06-2016, 07:33 PM
TDs post season resume alone should be a lock for the hof. He was a very special player that came and went in the blink of an eye but accomplished more in that time than 99 pct of all rbs in history

floridabroncos
02-06-2016, 07:34 PM
I am absolutely furious right now. Bunch of biased clowns.

I hope our team is furious too. Take that anger out on the Panthers tomorrow!

orange crush75
02-06-2016, 07:36 PM
That is such bull crap . Atwater should of been in a long time ago. TD should be in by now . Lynch was a dang good player but the other 2 should be in now. What a croc

orange crush75
02-06-2016, 07:40 PM
TDs post season resume alone should be a lock for the hof. He was a very special player that came and went in the blink of an eye but accomplished more in that time than 99 pct of all rbs in history

If you add the quarters he sat out its like 2-3 games , and he still put up those #'s . What a shame :(

Pubs07
02-06-2016, 07:43 PM
Gradishar and Mecklenburg>or= to Greene but are still waiting! Sorry guys you played too far west for the HOF committee. TD with 7 straight 100+ post season games, it may be a record but it's not east of Kansas City so it doesn't matter.

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 07:45 PM
I feel like are just teasing us.

VADER72
02-06-2016, 07:48 PM
Glad they announced the winners before the show, don't need. To waste my evening on lousy shows like this.

VADER72
02-06-2016, 07:51 PM
Why is the NFL trying to act like the Oscars and the Oscars suck. I'm sorry but Kevin Harvin from ET, what a joke!

HurricaneDovs
02-06-2016, 07:52 PM
Glad they announced the winners before the show, don't need. To waste my evening on lousy shows like this.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I wanted to watch it, but now I could not care less.

BmoreBroncosFan
02-06-2016, 07:54 PM
So TD, Atwater didn't make the cut this year? You gotta be kidding me....This is already a bad omen on us.....

VADER72
02-06-2016, 07:55 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing. I wanted to watch it, but now I could not care less.

Agreed!!!!!

VADER72
02-06-2016, 07:58 PM
Anyone see the idiot women do the dab on TV. We get zero respect.

Chrissy
02-06-2016, 08:09 PM
Its hogwash about TD..I was watching earlier today when they were talking about him and I think its probably because he only played 7 years which if they had sense they would know that in his 7 years he id a hell of a lot more then guys that's been in it 2xs longer..He will get in, that's a fact it just sucks he has to continue to wait.. I am very happy about Coach D and M. Harrison..I love those 2 guys and I think it will give Peyton an extra boost for tomorrow, 2 significant people in his pro career voted in when hes playing in SB 50. This is a good thing.

HUMCALC
02-06-2016, 08:09 PM
How does Warner not get in?

Chrissy
02-06-2016, 08:14 PM
How does Warner not get in?

Earlier today when I was watching the NFL Network and they wee breaking it down, apparently they do it in a way that they spread it out. They said each position that's nominated gets a nod which means depending on whose nominated for that year ..silly I know but what can ya do..its all hob - nobbing like anything else.

diesel51
02-06-2016, 08:19 PM
I know we will never see this, but I want some player to stick up for us. I want them to vote Atwater or TD in and then one of them say, "Screw you and your Hall of Fame". You think Shanahan gets in? Bowlen? I want to nut punch every person on that committee. Should have seen this coming after Bettis last year. What a freaking joke.

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 08:24 PM
Don't know why Dungy got in really.

As for TD. If they're holding his lack if longevity against him, then what will change? Why would he get in later or down the road when nothing changed. Wouldn't the same argument apply year after year?

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 08:36 PM
Who would have thought Kevin Greene would get in before Gradishar. The NFL has to get these old farts out of there. They are ruining the integrity of the game. Dungy? Tom Flores wins 2 SBs and can't a sniff. That HOF committee is BS.

agreed. Tom Flores may be the most deserving coach to never get consideration for the HoF.

Can't believe guys like Dungy and Debartolo got in ahead of TD and Coryell

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 08:51 PM
So we have 4 players in and Detroit has 13. How does that stick in your craw?

L.M.
02-06-2016, 08:51 PM
I really don't think John Lynch deserves the HoF. Very good player but not one of the all time greats, imo.

Yes he is (if you watched him in Tampa Bay you'd agree), and he'll get in eventually.

Chrissy
02-06-2016, 08:52 PM
Don't know why Dungy got in really.

As for TD. If they're holding his lack if longevity against him, then what will change? Why would he get in later or down the road when nothing changed. Wouldn't the same argument apply year after year?

Coach D got in because he is a hell of a coach..He did a great job in Tampa and well in Indy he was awesome ..he deserves it .. As for TD yes the longevity hurts him which btw is not his fault, they said today that he suffered from migraines , imo he will be in by the 3 years or so. Yes he should be in now but next year LT is up and he works at the NFL Network so I'm not sure about it. Honestly TD should have a job over there..he is very well spoken , very knowledgeable way better then Deon. ;)

VenomousDB
02-06-2016, 08:53 PM
So we have 4 players in and Detroit has 13. How does that stick in your craw?

Stop torturing me!!! :P

L.M.
02-06-2016, 08:55 PM
Why not?

Football is known as the ultimate team game and, in the end, you're playing as a team for championships. I don't remember Harrison making trouble wherever he went, changing uniforms from team to team and still acting like an idiot. The distractions, the public arguments with teammates, all that stuff did not help Owens' teams compete for championships. He was all about himself. Stats aside, he does not represent what football is really about. Marvin Harrison helped his team become a contender and win a championship. Owens helped his teams get sick of him and ship him away.

Well said. I'm glad he was snubbed and hope he is for a while yet.

The Hall of Fame is an HONOR and a man without any himself doesn't deserve to be honored and respected.

floridabroncos
02-06-2016, 08:56 PM
I know we will never see this, but I want some player to stick up for us. I want them to vote Atwater or TD in and then one of them say, "Screw you and your Hall of Fame". You think Shanahan gets in? Bowlen? I want to nut punch every person on that committee. Should have seen this coming after Bettis last year. What a freaking joke.

Yeah, without Bowlen the NFL would be a shell of itself with all the TV deals and stuff that he helped usher in.

L.M.
02-06-2016, 08:57 PM
The Hall of Fame is about what you did on the field not what you did off of it....this is why we have lame duck writers when it comes to voting,because they allow their emotions get to them when it comes putting someone in the Hall of Fame.

He misbehaved on the field too.

CDUB1620
02-06-2016, 09:02 PM
One of the most successful franchises in the NFL, and so few HOFers. What a joke.

L.M.
02-06-2016, 09:05 PM
So we have 4 players in and Detroit has 13. How does that stick in your craw?

The Lions started in 1930, and the Broncos started in 1960.

That's the largest reason for that difference.

Eighty3
02-06-2016, 09:08 PM
It's pretty ridiculous that Dungy can get in but Tom Flores doesn't even get close. Dungy was a good coach and he may be a nice guy but he wasn't great, while Flores had 2 dominant Super Bowl victories. I'm starting to think Mike Shanahan won't have a chance.

L.M.
02-06-2016, 09:10 PM
At least Peyton Manning will be a lock as soon as he's eligible.

broncoslover115
02-06-2016, 09:12 PM
At least Peyton Manning will be a lock as soon as he's eligible.

We'll maybe he should retire as a Colt just to be sure. Cause they sure aren't letting Broncos in these days.

broncos SB2010
02-06-2016, 09:14 PM
Coach D got in because he is a hell of a coach..He did a great job in Tampa and well in Indy he was awesome ..he deserves it .. As for TD yes the longevity hurts him which btw is not his fault, they said today that he suffered from migraines , imo he will be in by the 3 years or so. Yes he should be in now but next year LT is up and he works at the NFL Network so I'm not sure about it. Honestly TD should have a job over there..he is very well spoken , very knowledgeable way better then Deon. ;)

really? He was 54-42 in TB

JayJack
02-06-2016, 09:14 PM
Don't know why Dungy got in really.

As for TD. If they're holding his lack if longevity against him, then what will change? Why would he get in later or down the road when nothing changed. Wouldn't the same argument apply year after year?

T. Davis isn't the only player getting snubbed because of longevity......Sterling Sharpe is getting punished as well.

L.M.
02-06-2016, 09:17 PM
We'll maybe he should retire as a Colt just to be sure. Cause they sure aren't letting Broncos in these days.

He'll be listed with both teams regardless.

famicommander
02-06-2016, 09:19 PM
The HOF is and always shall be a joke, because the NFL's all time leading tackler is not a member.

Gradishar had more tackles in 10 seasons than Seau had in 20, but he's not in the Hall because he was a Bronco.

InsaneBlaze23
02-06-2016, 09:21 PM
Lol Dungy getting in is a joke. He's a product of Manning and needing to get my peoples in for reasons.

He's a good coach no doubt but he's no hall of fame coach.

And I'm curious what Denver did to the league for them to hate the Broncos so much?

We are the Tigers of the NFL.(Tigers have a lot of deserving hall of famers, but the MLB blows them off. Morris can no longer get votes.)

GiddyupGetEm
02-06-2016, 09:24 PM
Terrell Davis was again disrespected by a Selection Committee which does not honor football greatness.

TD has more Super Bowls than any other inductee this year. He has more Super Bowl MVPs than anyone inducted this year.

#BoycottCanton

VenomousDB
02-06-2016, 09:25 PM
There's some tool on sports center right now who is irate that Owens didn't get in.

Chillez
02-06-2016, 09:25 PM
This pisses me off NFL HOF have no respect this bias towards Bronco players every year is getting tiredsome.

Jason Sitoke
02-06-2016, 09:42 PM
Why not?

Football is known as the ultimate team game and, in the end, you're playing as a team for championships. I don't remember Harrison making trouble wherever he went, changing uniforms from team to team and still acting like an idiot. The distractions, the public arguments with teammates, all that stuff did not help Owens' teams compete for championships. He was all about himself. Stats aside, he does not represent what football is really about. Marvin Harrison helped his team become a contender and win a championship. Owens helped his teams get sick of him and ship him away.

Yes. Harrison never did anything to distract from the team

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Harrison#Connections_to_shooting_incidents

Salutethis
02-06-2016, 10:36 PM
The bias is just sickening. What did Denver do to these reporters to make them shaft Broncos so much?!?

gorky
02-06-2016, 10:39 PM
All Bronco fans should Boycott the HOF.

DO NOT SPEND A DIME ON THAT PLACE.

ChupaThingy
02-06-2016, 10:46 PM
They need to start letting these other Broncos in. There's two more on their way within the next 5-6 years. Manning and Champ. Manning will no doubt get in on his first eligibility. Champ may be a victim of the same fate Kurt Warner suffered this year, where they just give other positions nods because of some bizarre quota.

canadiansbronco
02-06-2016, 10:55 PM
When you always put yourself ahead of the team and create tension with your teammates, you surely make a negative impact on what happens on the field... I've heard there was a spirited debate about Owens and I'm sure it revolved around his selfish act that, several times, hurt more than it helped his team.

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame? Or Hall of Stats? If it's only about stats, then there should not even have a voting session. Just see who's eligible, count their stats and put them in Canton.

Yeh i am sorry but TO not making it in is just as stupid as TD and Atwater not making it in....

canadiansbronco
02-06-2016, 11:01 PM
There's some tool on sports center right now who is irate that Owens didn't get in.

Then i am a tool....IMO TO deserved to be in over Harrison. T0 is #3 in yards and like top 5-10 in every other category....

Ahrum
02-06-2016, 11:03 PM
TD is probably going to have to wait even longer, 'cause i'm almost 100% certain that Ladainian Tomlinson is going to be a first ballot next year.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 12:03 AM
T. Davis isn't the only player getting snubbed because of longevity......Sterling Sharpe is getting punished as well.

I beg to differ... Part of the criterion for excellence is "winning" or performance in the biggest of spots... TD is arguably the greatest playoff RB in NFL history... He won an MVP, a SB MVP, he won 2 SB titles... Sterling just didn't have that on his resume, and TD's epic heroics in playoffs is what makes him a HOF player... and should forgive his short career...

The writers elected the opposite in Marvin Harrison... A guy who endured and piled up stats in the reg season but was awful come Jan...

Marvin Harrison had 800 yards receiving combined in his 16 playoff games... Terrell Davis had 1140 rushing in 8 playoff games...

Harrison has 0 TD in 15/16 playoff games. He scored a Grand total of 2 TD total in his playoff career... Both coming in a blowout vs DEN. Oh, he did have 3 career playoff fumbles.

Davis had 12 TD in 8 playoff games, including 3 vs GB in SB 32, despite having blinding migraine headaches and going up against a supposed dominating Packers DL (Reggie white and Gilbert Brown)...

Oh, in 8 games TD had 131 yards receiving too...

TD had multiple TD in 4/8 playoff games played... Has NFL record 5.6 ypc in playoffs... Had 7 consecutive 100+ yards rushing in playoffs (another NFL record)... In fact, only his first playoff game he failed to break 100 barrier (he had 91 on 14 carries, but DEN was trying to catch up to JAX)...

Once again... HOF voting proves that writers value longevity over greatness... Marvin Harrison accumulated stats playing on turf with Peyton Manning. He was easy to tackle and ran out of bounds all the time. He was great in regular season... But lousy in playoffs... where he caught less than 45% of balls thrown his way... This 1 stat sums up Marvin: in the 3 losses to NE in the playoffs, he combined for 12 catches and 100 yards (total in the 3 games) with 0 TD... He fumbled tho.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 12:04 AM
Dungy another perennial JAN dud... He never could stop Brady, he was eaten alive by Jets once 41-0... Dude was a nice guy... Won a bunch of games with Manning... Squeaked out 1 SB title and now they enshrine him? If winning makes the difference... What about an MVP running back with a 2k yard season, who won 2 of the 50 SB... Was one of the best playoff runners in history of the sport... Played as long as Gale Sayers (but had better stats)... But TD has to sit there and watch Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis and Tomlinson next year (another post season failure)... He has to watch Dungy, green, Harrison go into the HOF?

Broncos have 8 SB appearances but only 4 HOF players? What a joke

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 12:09 AM
DEN has 4 HOF guys despite 8 SB appearances?

Kevin Greene gets in? John Lynch makes first cut but not Atwater? Quick... Name the iconic Lynch hit...

Atwater crushed Okoya... And then Atwater ended SB by knocking out 3 guys... Had more tackles than lynch... 3 SB (2 wins)... These writers don't want HOF guys voting bc say they aren't informed enough... But all these writers do is push agenda and propel their own personal bias...

Atwater had more tackles than Lynch... Played in 3 SB... Lynch played 4 more seasons, where he tacked on a few more sacks and FF... Otherwise, these cats are identical...

Writers talk about guys having to wait their turn... Bc a guy is ahead of him at the position... They talk about a guy bring really great at his 1 trick (Greene with sacks) or how a guy win a title (Dungy)...

Davis was great at 1 thing too... Dominating in playoffs... He won 2 titles...

Shouldn't being lousy in playoffs weigh just as much as not having longevity?

Give me Davis any day over Harrison or Greene.

BHPizza
02-07-2016, 12:10 AM
It's disgusting how many teams there are that have never won or even gone to a Super Bowl and have more HOF players than the Broncos. It's a total sham. Complete conspiracy.

L.M.
02-07-2016, 02:24 AM
John Lynch makes first cut but not Atwater? Quick... Name the iconic Lynch hit...

Atwater crushed Okoya... And then Atwater ended SB by knocking out 3 guys... Had more tackles than lynch... 3 SB (2 wins)... These writers don't want HOF guys voting bc say they aren't informed enough... But all these writers do is push agenda and propel their own personal bias...

Atwater had more tackles than Lynch... Played in 3 SB... Lynch played 4 more seasons, where he tacked on a few more sacks and FF... Otherwise, these cats are identical...

You are seriously dissing John Lynch!? I don't understand why people here are acting like Lynch didn't play for, and give his all, for the Broncos while he was with us? SMH
He still lives in Denver and associates with Elway and the organization at various functions too.

If you think they are the same, then why should Atwater be a cut above Lynch? Compare their stats and list of honors and accolades:

Combined Tackles: Lynch- 1051 Atwater- 519 (Lynch had a lot more, frag, individually and combined)
Sacks: Lynch - 13 Atwater - 5
Forced Fumbles: Lynch - 16 Atwater- 8
Fumbles Recovered: Lynch - 8 Atwater - 7
Int's: Lynch - 26 Atwater - 24
Passes Defended: Lynch - 89 Atwater - 58

Career Highlights and awards:

Lynch-

9 Pro Bowl (1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007)
3 First-team All-Pro (1999, 2000, 2001)
Second-team All-Pro (2002)
Super Bowl champion (XXXVII)
NFL Alumni Defensive Back of the Year (2000)
Bart Starr Man of the Year Award (2006)
"Whizzer" White NFL Man of the Year (2006)
Junior Seau Foundation Legend of the Year Award (2010)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ring of Honor

Atwater-

2 Super Bowl champion (XXXII, XXXIII)
3 AFC Champion (1989, 1997, 1998)
8 Pro Bowl (1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998)
2 First-Team All-Pro (1991, 1992)
Second-Team All-Pro (1996)
NFL 1990s All-Decade Team
Denver Broncos Ring of Fame

If the Broncos had beaten the Steelers in the '05 AFCCG, then that SB was as good as won and Lynch would have that on his resume, and winning a SB with two different teams is a huge plus that would have gotten him in by now.

Lynch blew people to smithereens! Here's your "iconic" Lynch hits (as if an "iconic hit" should qualify a player for the HOF :rolleyes:):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2377/1557049395_14800649c3_o.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acN4SDoAhds

John Lynch Career Highlights | "Hitman 47" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwtkC7HIP4)

Lynch's career was longer than Atwater's, but that's to his credit in the final analysis, just as the brevity of Davis' is held against him, and that is likely one reason he was selected above him, in addition to the fact that he's been nominated several times now.

Bterres105
02-07-2016, 02:34 AM
Don't understand the Lynch hate here. He was an awesome Bronco. Unfortunately his term ended on a sour note, but he was still a great here nonetheless.

The committee is full of biased idiots. Davis will get in, eventually. The nfl is a pass happy league now, so besides Peterson, nobody is putting up rushing numbers near Davis'.

InsaneBlaze23
02-07-2016, 02:50 AM
I've always liked John Lynch, I think the hate being thrown at him is just out of anger for Atwater not getting in. Which we can't blame John for Steve not getting. First off defensive backs aren't the favorites for voting anyway. But again not John's fault or Atwater's fault.

Clearly these Hall of Fames are a little off, and I'm not just talking about the NFL.

diesel51
02-07-2016, 06:02 AM
I don't hate Lynch, but to me Atwater will always be better. If I was creating an All-Bronco team, Atwater would get things at Safety over Lynch, and I wouldn't bat an eye at it.

That is not hate towards Lynch...that is how much I respect Atwater.

Of the players I've seen play that re eligible for the HOF, Atwater and TD DESERVE to be in. I am not opposed to Lynch and I trust my elder Bronco fans who say Gradisher deserves to be in too.

That is three to four Broncos who are missing, who SHOULD be in, while East Coast and large market teams get marginal players in. If Bettis had played for the Arizona Cardinals, there is no way he gets in. Yet I can see Romo, should the Cowboys win a Super Bowl in the next three years, getting in.

Ignorant.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 08:12 AM
No hate for Lynch at all... Just using the Lynch-Atwater comparison to prove a point about how biased those 43 writer-voters are (those crotchity know-it-all hacks who possess the keys to the HOF).

I listened to Ira Kaufman give an interview on Fri... He is 1 of the voters and a writer for Tampa tribune. He basically came to this with the goal to get both his Tampa guys into the HOF...

My point was that the 2 players are practically identical... The only difference is that Lynch played for 4 more seasons... Atwater played in 2 more SB tho, and is the older player... Ergo, based on everything else I've heard these writers talk about (seniority a factor when 2 equal players for same position are up for election).... The only difference separating Lynch-Atwater is the energy and intelligence of their personal cheerleaders.

Another example I gave was how Ira talked up Kevin Greene as an obvious candidate bc he was great at 1 thing (sacking the QB)... one of best ever Ira submitted... And then how Dungy winning a SB confirmed his status... and made you forgive all those playoff blemishes on his record. Even tho PM gets blamed for those 1-&-dones, and despite PM going to SB with 3 other HC and how Gruden won with the players Dungy couldn't win with.

Well, TD was great at 1 thing (playing in the playoffs), and he won 2 SB... When you toss in the MVP he earned (reg and SB MVP), and 2k season (only 4 RB ever did this),
When you consider this... to go with his playoff greatness... Isn't That's enough to forgive an injury-shortened career? After all, there's precedent with Sayers...

Marvin Harrison the opposite... He enjoyed longevity but was so bad in the playoffs that it's disgusting. How can you say this is one of the greatest WR ever... When he wilted when it mattered most? If he was so good, why was he held wirhout a TD in 15 of the 16 playoff games he appeared in... Why did he avg about 50 yards a playoff game?

Anyway... I love Lynch. I just think if he is a HOF player than Atwater is. For some reason HOF votes have issue voting in FS and SS types. Not sure why. There's no reason why lynch jumps Atwater other than the powers of persuasion his advocate possesses compared to Atwater's.

Obviously, that drunkard baffoon (woody Paige) needs to be removed from the HOF selection committee... The fact that only 4 DEN players are in is a testament to his incompetence and an indictment of his verbal and social skills.

John Lynch: A great player... A vicious hitter... But Lynch himself stated this week, that when Dungy arrived in Tampa, and they wanted to show him how they wanted him to play, they popped in a VCR cassette of Steve Atwater highlights... And said "play like that guy."

Atwater has more tackles in 4 less seasons, has only 2 less INT, and the disparity in FF and sacks is bc Lynch practically doubled those stats his last 4 years.

Given the ICONIC Atwater hit in SB 32.... A clutch play that sealed the game's fate... Given the iconic Okoya hit... The 3 SB appearances and 2 victories... The question remains: why the Atwater apathy?

After all, they saying always goes: if you want to put a candidate in... who are you removing? The selective bias of these voters is forcing my hand here.

-Rod-
02-07-2016, 08:21 AM
Randy Gradishar was a 7x Pro Bowl selection, 5x First-team All-Pro and DPOY in 1978. Just to put things in perspective, a decorated defender like Champ Bailey was 3x First-team All-Pro. Considering that All-Pro teams are voted by the press, it's stunning how Gradishar has been completely forgotten all these years.

Spice 1
02-07-2016, 08:32 AM
How good is Peyton Manning? He just put two people in the Hall of Fame way ahead of schedule.

I don't have a problem with Greene, and I could possibly entertain the idea that Dungy should get in ahead of Coryell, but don't tell me Marvin Harrison deserves to be in the Hall before Terrell Owens. That's just stupid.

GiddyupGetEm
02-07-2016, 08:38 AM
No hate for Lynch at all... Just using the Lynch-Atwater comparison to prove a point about how biased those 43 writer-voters are (those crotchity know-it-all hacks who possess the keys to the HOF).

I listened to Ira Kaufman give an interview on Fri... He is 1 of the voters and a writer for Tampa tribune. He basically came to this with the goal to get both his Tampa guys into the HOF...

My point was that the 2 players are practically identical... The only difference is that Lynch played for 4 more seasons... Atwater played in 2 more SB tho, and is the older player... Ergo, based on everything else I've heard these writers talk about (seniority a factor when 2 equal players for same position are up for election).... The only difference separating Lynch-Atwater is the energy and intelligence of their personal cheerleaders.

Another example I gave was how Ira talked up Kevin Greene as an obvious candidate bc he was great at 1 thing (sacking the QB)... one of best ever Ira submitted... And then how Dungy winning a SB confirmed his status... and made you forgive all those playoff blemishes on his record. Even tho PM gets blamed for those 1-&-dones, and despite PM going to SB with 3 other HC and how Gruden won with the players Dungy couldn't win with.

Well, TD was great at 1 thing (playing in the playoffs), and he won 2 SB... When you toss in the MVP he earned (reg and SB MVP), and 2k season (only 4 RB ever did this),
When you consider this... to go with his playoff greatness... Isn't That's enough to forgive an injury-shortened career? After all, there's precedent with Sayers...

Marvin Harrison the opposite... He enjoyed longevity but was so bad in the playoffs that it's disgusting. How can you say this is one of the greatest WR ever... When he wilted when it mattered most? If he was so good, why was he held wirhout a TD in 15 of the 16 playoff games he appeared in... Why did he avg about 50 yards a playoff game?

Anyway... I love Lynch. I just think if he is a HOF player than Atwater is. For some reason HOF votes have issue voting in FS and SS types. Not sure why. There's no reason why lynch jumps Atwater other than the powers of persuasion his advocate possesses compared to Atwater's.

Obviously, that drunkard baffoon (woody Paige) needs to be removed from the HOF selection committee... The fact that only 4 DEN players are in is a testament to his incompetence and an indictment of his verbal and social skills.

John Lynch: A great player... A vicious hitter... But Lynch himself stated this week, that when Dungy arrived in Tampa, and they wanted to show him how they wanted him to play, they popped in a VCR cassette of Steve Atwater highlights... And said "play like that guy."

Atwater has more tackles in 4 less seasons, has only 2 less INT, and the disparity in FF and sacks is bc Lynch practically doubled those stats his last 4 years.

Given the ICONIC Atwater hit in SB 32.... A clutch play that sealed the game's fate... Given the iconic Okoya hit... The 3 SB appearances and 2 victories... The question remains: why the Atwater apathy?

After all, they saying always goes: if you want to put a candidate in... who are you removing? The selective bias of these voters is forcing my hand here.

Woody Paige hasn't been Denver's representative in years. It is Jeff Legwold now. He seems pretty upset. He calls the 2016 class worthy, but tweeted his frustration with getting Broncos in.

But Paige probably kept a few guys out. At least Gradishar thinks so.

But the anti-Broncos efforts are bigger than just Paige or Legwold. It is really more about the politics of the Selection Committee. I get the sense Bronco players are like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" and they just aren't politicians while other teams are.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 08:39 AM
How good is Peyton Manning? He just put two people in the Hall of Fame way ahead of schedule.

I don't have a problem with Greene, and I could possibly entertain the idea that Dungy should get in ahead of Coryell, but don't tell me Marvin Harrison deserves to be in the Hall before Terrell Owens. That's just stupid.

explain please.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 08:40 AM
How good is Peyton Manning? He just put two people in the Hall of Fame way ahead of schedule.

I don't have a problem with Greene, and I could possibly entertain the idea that Dungy should get in ahead of Coryell, but don't tell me Marvin Harrison deserves to be in the Hall before Terrell Owens. That's just stupid.

people actually do have hate for owens and wont vote him in because of that hate. i understand why its hard for coryell to get in since he never won a SB.

i don't see much hate or bias against broncos players to be honest, if i did it probably would have been Shannon Sharpe and he already got in so...

Spice 1
02-07-2016, 08:41 AM
I love John Lynch, and I think he is worthy of the Hall, but he was not a better safety than Steve Atwater IMO.

Spice 1
02-07-2016, 08:43 AM
explain please.

Maybe people are looking at how he "pioneered" defense or his "success" in Indi. All I would say to that is, Monte Kiffin and Peyton Manning.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 08:44 AM
And how good was Elway too? Many people in national media want to award a presidential medal of excellence and superiority to Brady for winning with idiot savant bums as off skill players...

Brady, aside from having arguably best HC of all time, and playing in the free agent-parity era (where every rule is geared for offense in general, and passing specifically)..., he had Brown, Branch, Welker, Edelman, Dillon, mankins, Moss, gronkowski...

Elway went to the SB 5 times... 3 times he dragged a unit composed of factory recall parts like Winder and Wilhight, Johnson, Jackson, natiel... And an OL you couldn't name if you looked at the roster ten minutes ago...

He lost to the best offense of all time (SF) and to a great NY team... And, sure, his lone blemish is the WAS loss... But he was up 10-0 before that 35 point second quarter, when our defense was humiliated.

broncolee
02-07-2016, 08:44 AM
If you want to keep Terrell Owens out of the Hall because of character issues, fine.

Don't then put Marvin Harrison in when he wasn't as good as Owens.🙄🙈

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 08:46 AM
people actually do have hate for owens and wont vote him in because of that hate. i understand why its hard for coryell to get in since he never won a SB.

i don't see much hate or bias against broncos players to be honest, if i did it probably would have been Shannon Sharpe and he already got in so...

Bud Grant and Marv Levy never won a SB either.

Blurb about Don Coryell...

The Pro Football Hall of Fame called the Chargers' offenses under Coryell "one of the most explosive and exciting offenses that ever set foot on an NFL field."[8] Coryell is the first coach ever to win more than 100 games at both the collegiate and professional level. Coryell's offensive innovations changed the entire nature of the league from a run-first league to a pass-first one.

Today most NFL offenses' passing games are at least partially based on Coryell conventions.

Former coach of the St. Louis Rams, Mike Martz, says "Don is the father of the modern passing game. People talk about the West Coast offense, but Don started the 'West Coast' decades ago and kept updating it. You look around the NFL now, and so many teams are running a version of the Coryell offense. Coaches have added their own touches, but it's still Coryell's offense. He has disciples all over the league. He changed the game."


What did Dungy do except take the Tampa 2 from Pitt and use it as his base defense and coach Manning to a SB win over the Rex Grossman lead Bears?

Spice 1
02-07-2016, 08:46 AM
people actually do have hate for owens and wont vote him in because of that hate. i understand why its hard for coryell to get in since he never won a SB.

i don't see much hate or bias against broncos players to be honest, if i did it probably would have been Shannon Sharpe and he already got in so...

My problem is that the media is butt hurt about Owens, because he acted a fool all the time. Marvin Harrison was practically bangin off the field, but they don't care about that because he answered all of their questions like a "gentleman". It's really, really stupid, IMO.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 08:46 AM
Woody Paige hasn't been Denver's representative in years. It is Jeff Legwold now. He seems pretty upset. He calls the 2016 class worthy, but tweeted his frustration with getting Broncos in.

But Paige probably kept a few guys out. At least Gradishar thinks so.

But the anti-Broncos efforts are bigger than just Paige or Legwold. It is really more about the politics of the Selection Committee. I get the sense Bronco players are like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" and they just aren't politicians while other teams are.

Thanks for clearing that up...

GiddyupGetEm
02-07-2016, 08:49 AM
people actually do have hate for owens and wont vote him in because of that hate. i understand why its hard for coryell to get in since he never won a SB.

i don't see much hate or bias against broncos players to be honest, if i did it probably would have been Shannon Sharpe and he already got in so...

So then please explain the fact that the Broncos have been far better than your Chargers historically yet have half the HOFers. Just an anomaly?

The truth is the Selection Committee has higher standards for Broncos than nearly every other team. Disqualifiers for Broncos are not disqualifiers for others. Success as a Bronco will inevitably come with a caveat.

How many Broncos will go to their graves deprived of a rightfully earned honor? Meanwhile less deserving members get in because their team. Tragic!

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 08:55 AM
How does a team play in most SB and have one of the elite winning % the last 40 years... But have 0 defensive players in the HOF?

TD made second team all 90s team and was the most prolific playoff RB in NFL history and he is denied access while Curtis Martin and Bettis get in? Floyd Little got in... Put TD in!

Randy Gradishar and Karl Mecklenberg were every bit as dominant as Kevin Greene, in their own right, but any LB who ever once wore black and gold get the coveted jacket but not a Bronco?

If we were the 1960 packers... Even guys like Nalen and Rod Smith would be in the HOF.

Spice 1
02-07-2016, 09:00 AM
How does a team play in most SB and have one of the elite winning % the last 40 years... But have 0 defensive players in the HOF?

TD made second team all 90s team and was the most prolific playoff RB in NFL history and he is denied access while Curtis Martin and Bettis get in? Floyd Little got in... Put TD in!

Randy Gradishar and Karl Mecklenberg were every bit as dominant as Kevin Greene, in their own right, but any LB who ever once wore black and gold get the coveted jacket but not a Bronco?

If we were the 1960 packers... Even guys like Nalen and Rod Smith would be in the HOF.

That's so true, but that's part of the problem. They were so caught up in nostalgia and being in a big hurry to throw everybody in the Hall, that they put a bunch of guys in there who shouldn't be. Now you have a bunch of players who were better, but can't get in and it looks bad by comparison.

GiddyupGetEm
02-07-2016, 09:07 AM
That's so true, but that's part of the problem. They were so caught up in nostalgia and being in a big hurry to throw everybody in the Hall, that they put a bunch of guys in there who shouldn't be. Now you have a bunch of players who were better, but can't get in and it looks bad by comparison.

Nalen should be in. Interior linemen are so hard to quantify success. But under his leadership from 1995-2006 the Broncos led the league in rushing by a mile. He had rotating backs and no real help around him on the line after 98. He did more than most of the recent interior linemen. He belongs more than Rod.

samparnell
02-07-2016, 09:08 AM
Bud Grant and Marv Levy never won a SB either.

Blurb about Don Coryell...

The Pro Football Hall of Fame called the Chargers' offenses under Coryell "one of the most explosive and exciting offenses that ever set foot on an NFL field."[8] Coryell is the first coach ever to win more than 100 games at both the collegiate and professional level. Coryell's offensive innovations changed the entire nature of the league from a run-first league to a pass-first one.

Today most NFL offenses' passing games are at least partially based on Coryell conventions.

Former coach of the St. Louis Rams, Mike Martz, says "Don is the father of the modern passing game. People talk about the West Coast offense, but Don started the 'West Coast' decades ago and kept updating it. You look around the NFL now, and so many teams are running a version of the Coryell offense. Coaches have added their own touches, but it's still Coryell's offense. He has disciples all over the league. He changed the game."


What did Dungy do except take the Tampa 2 from Pitt and use it as his base defense and coach Manning to a SB win over the Rex Grossman lead Bears?

Right. Bud Grant and Marv Levy were great football coaches, but Don Coryell was one of the greatest innovators in football history, just as much as Bill Walsh.

luvdacolts67
02-07-2016, 09:10 AM
No way should Tony Dungy get in the HOF over TD. Thats a joke. He did nothing for Indy except take a team that should have won many SB's but didnt because he could never make adjustments during games. His defense in Indy sucked 90% of the time in the Playoffs. Hes a nice guy but what TD did for his team is by far greater. The HOF is becoming a joke. Harrison should have been a first ballot HOFamer. I just dont get this pick at all.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 09:10 AM
I think they should limit the HoF to 3 modern era players and 1 senior selection, plus a potential contributor. That way only the truly deserving would be in.

AussieBronco76
02-07-2016, 09:16 AM
No way should Tony Dungy get in the HOF over TD. Thats a joke. He did nothing for Indy except take a team that should have won many SB's but didnt because he could never make adjustments during games. His defense in Indy sucked 90% of the time in the Playoffs. Hes a nice guy but what TD did for his team is by far greater. The HOF is becoming a joke. Harrison should have been a first ballot HOFamer. I just dont get this pick at all.



Agree totally.They put the wrong TD in.:smug:

broncolee
02-07-2016, 09:17 AM
Dungy deserves to be in. His story is pertinent to the history of the NFL.

GiddyupGetEm
02-07-2016, 09:17 AM
Of the 2016 class, Dungy is the most undeserving. TD should have gotten his spot.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 09:20 AM
Dungy deserves to be in. His story is pertinent to the history of the NFL.

how so?
...

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 09:20 AM
Of the 2016 class, Dungy is the most undeserving. TD should have gotten his spot.

or just not voted for either of them.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 09:22 AM
It's really a total farce that the voters are a bunch of sports writers. Sports writers in general are highly biased and over-opinionated. It is becoming extremely obvious it's more like a prom queen induction.

Atwater, Gradishar, TD are all worthy ahead of a lot of the guys who get in. It's a popularity contest more than anything.

Colorado is still views as a cow town by many outsiders. 8 SBs and we're still thought of as a second rate team.

Sad really.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 09:24 AM
It's really a total farce that the voters are a bunch of sports writers. Sports writers in general are highly biased and over-opinionated. It is becoming extremely obvious it's more like a prom queen induction.

Atwater, Gradishar, TD are all worthy ahead of a lot of the guys who get in. It's a popularity contest more than anything.

Colorado is still views as a cow town by many outsiders. 8 SBs and we're still thought of as a second rate team.

Sad really.

The induction committee should include guys that are already in the HoF, imo.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 09:26 AM
Right. Bud Grant and Marv Levy were great football coaches, but Don Coryell was one of the greatest innovators in football history, just as much as Bill Walsh.

but never even getting to a SB is a pretty big factor for a coach. levy and grant at least went to multiple SB's, so i can see why it's so hard for him to get in.

i think he will eventually.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 09:30 AM
The induction committee should include guys that are already in the HoF, imo.

You mean people who actually played the game? Crazy talk...

broncolee
02-07-2016, 09:42 AM
how so?
...

When with the Colts, he never lost more than 6 regular season games and only lost more than 4, once. He was also the one who built the defense in Tampa that won a Super Bowl.

He was the first black coach to win a Super Bowl. Even though, with the Colts, he wasn't able to build a dominant defense, it was the defense that carried the team to its Super Bowl win.

There are other factors that Bill Polian is more qualified to explain, but I wasn't able to find his comments. I heard him state the case for Dungy on NFL Radio.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 09:43 AM
This year, 2 HOF players sat in on the process...

I hope change is coming, where actual members have a say and/or input...

Writers aren't more knowledgable and are just as biased... So the excuses to exclude players is prejudicial and short-sighted.

They should just rename it to the Hall of sustained regular season production...

Again, if Dungy story is pertinent to NFL story... Than what about Davis? He personally ended a run of 13 years of NFL SB dominance... You cant tell the Disney ending tale of Elway without TD... He may be the last of the great, champion work-horse RB...

If you had 1 game to win... Life depended on it... Are you taking Curtis Martin (fumbled away SB chance in AFCCG) or Bettis (almost fumbled away SB chance in AFCCG had Ben not saved his bacon with a tackle) or Tomlinson (who removed himself from AFCCG and cost himself SB chance)... Or Davis (greatest playoff runner in NFL history)?

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 09:48 AM
Davis also was responsible for the most successfull 3 year run in NFL history... No team won more games in a 3 year span and no RB rushes for more yards in a 3 year span.

broncolee
02-07-2016, 09:49 AM
Terrell Davis didn't play long enough and his last two or three years were marred by injuries.

I don't think he ever gets in. I don't know if that makes me sad or not. Right now, I'm pretty much indifferent about it.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 09:56 AM
Gale Sayers got in... TD played just as long and had better stats. So, precedent exists....

Good news for TD: 4/5 guys who got in yesterday... are 4 who made it to final 10 last year... but we're part of the 5 that didn't get in... Kurt Warner was the only other guy... And he had to wait bc of Favre.

Warner will get in next year... So will LT.... And probably Jacoby... Then, in 2017... TD will finally make it.

I don't think Atwater makes it in tho...

But Davis was so excellent in his 4 years span of dominance that it makes up for his short-lived career...

There's only been 50 SB and he won 2... NFL record of 7 consecutive playoff games with 100+ yards rushing, NFL playoff record of yards per carry... He has 1140 yards rushing in 8 playoff games (12 playoff TD)... To go with his league MVP. 1/4 to rush for 2k in a season (and on pace for 2k in a playoff season)... He just makes it, IMHO, mainly bc he's also an integral part of the Elway fairytale and fact that DEN is severely underrepresented in the HOF.

It should Only be special cases... Where short careers are considered... But in a violent sport, especially for RB who sustain a ton of blows, an injury shouldn't be absolutely prohibitive... If so much ancillary things were accomplished... If a record of greatness was etched in stone (playoff dominance)... Then it makes up for other stuff. After all, he is on the all 90s team... A member of an all decade team shouldn't be taken lightly...

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 10:01 AM
When with the Colts, he never lost more than 6 regular season games and only lost more than 4, once.

was that Dungy or was it Manning? The year after Dungy left, they went to the SB with Jim Caldwell and went 24-8 with him in 2 years. Dungy went 54-42 in TB...barely above .500


He was also the one who built the defense in Tampa that won a Super Bowl.

They didn't win the SB with that defense. It was Jon Gruden who came in and won.


He was the first black coach to win a Super Bowl.

So what. Doug Williams isn't in. Tom Flores isn't in. Race should not part of the entrance criteria.

Tom Flores:
1st hispanic QB to start in pro football
5th all-time in AFL passing yards
1st hispanic head coach to win a SB
won a SB as a head coach, assistant coach and a player
one of 20 players to play the entire history of the AFL

If Dungy belongs in the HoF because he was the first black HC to win a SB...why the heck was Flores not put in years ago???

Dennis.1960
02-07-2016, 10:04 AM
Exactly. Granted, they did overlook Eddie DeBartolo's off the field/criminal issues.

That's the thing that ticks me off the most. DeBartolo gets stripped of his team for ties to organized crime and gambling but he get's in the HoF while TD and Atwater don't? The HoF is an embarrassment and a bad joke.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 10:05 AM
Again... If winning a SB is the final thing propelling Dungy into HOF... Then why isn't TD's excellence in playoffs and SB a HUGE factor in weighing the decision? Seems like we cherry pick aspects to support our bias.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 10:13 AM
TDs post season stats alone blow everyone away. Regular season longevity is more relevant? Ridiculous.

Atwater was the greatest safety in his time - comparable only to Lott (who is in).

Don't even get me started on Gradishar. Again, one of the most dominating LBs of his time.

Bettis gets in because of longevity and he had a storybook ending to his career. Dungy gets in because he hob-nobs with the voters.

Atwater, Gradishar and TD are all worthy of the HOF and it is nothing short of a travesty that they get snubbed in favor of guys who have a good story. Again, sportswriter bias.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 10:19 AM
Again... If winning a SB is the final thing propelling Dungy into HOF... Then why isn't TD's excellence in playoffs and SB a HUGE factor in weighing the decision? Seems like we cherry pick aspects to support our bias.

because positional players are not judged by winning like coaches are (other than QB's).

same reason why floyd little is in the HOF and never even played in a playoff game before. TD will not get voted into the HOF based on a handful of games he played in the playoffs, no matter how good he was in those games.

a coach? that's a different story because that is one of the few ways to measure the success of a coach.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 10:21 AM
because positional players are not judged by winning like coaches are (other than QB's).

same reason why floyd little is in the HOF and never even played in a playoff game before. TD will not get voted into the HOF based on a handful of games he played in the playoffs, no matter how good he was in those games.

a coach? that's a different story because that is one of the few ways to measure the success of a coach.

TD outplayed both barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith in his 4 year run. He was THE best rb in football those 4 years...playoffs or not.

JJBroncoFan
02-07-2016, 10:28 AM
When with the Colts, he never lost more than 6 regular season games and only lost more than 4, once. He was also the one who built the defense in Tampa that won a Super Bowl.

He was the first black coach to win a Super Bowl. Even though, with the Colts, he wasn't able to build a dominant defense, it was the defense that carried the team to its Super Bowl win.

There are other factors that Bill Polian is more qualified to explain, but I wasn't able to find his comments. I heard him state the case for Dungy on NFL Radio.

This is why he is in, it's political and it's disgusting.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 10:28 AM
TDs post season stats alone blow everyone away. Regular season longevity is more relevant? Ridiculous.

Atwater was the greatest safety in his time - comparable only to Lott (who is in).

Don't even get me started on Gradishar. Again, one of the most dominating LBs of his time.

Bettis gets in because of longevity and he had a storybook ending to his career. Dungy gets in because he hob-nobs with the voters.

Atwater, Gradishar and TD are all worthy of the HOF and it is nothing short of a travesty that they get snubbed in favor of guys who have a good story. Again, sportswriter bias.

you are clearly biased for the broncos players and that's better than what you are complaining about somehow? guys are voted into the HOF based on their career in the NFL, not a handful of games in the playoffs.

yes IMO being a dominant player for a long time is more relevant to having a great HOF career rather than 8 games in the playoffs. i know davis had a few really good years but it's just going to be a lot harder for him to get in because it was only a few really good years on a fantastic team.

guys like tomlinson (yes i am biased too) dominated on good and bad teams and was consistent for a long time, although i agree bettis getting in last year is questionable.

a lot of it is likability and popularity but TD is very likable and popular so in his case some of what you are saying just doesn't add up.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 10:30 AM
Then why is Gale Sayers in the NFL HOF? He is TD sans the playoff excellence.

Sayers career games played: 2,2,14,9,13,14,14...

7 seasons. 5k rushing.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 10:35 AM
you are clearly biased for the broncos players and that's better than what you are complaining about somehow? guys are voted into the HOF based on their career in the NFL, not a handful of games in the playoffs.

yes IMO being a dominant player for a long time is more relevant to having a great HOF career rather than 8 games in the playoffs. i know davis had a few really good years but it's just going to be a lot harder for him to get in because it was only a few really good years on a fantastic team.

guys like tomlinson (yes i am biased too) dominated on good and bad teams and was consistent for a long time, although i agree bettis getting in last year is questionable.

a lot of it is likability and popularity but TD is very likable and popular so in his case some of what you are saying just doesn't add up.

In TDs "handful of playoff games" he still compiled better numbers than most guys who had twice the amount of games. He was only compete able to Sanders during his time and was dominant and feared. Longevity obviously weighs more than dominance and greatness on the biggest stage.

Gradishar and Atwater were downright dominant and the best at their respective positions during their career.

I really don't care about LT. He'll get in because of regular season longevity as you so estutely pointed out.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 10:35 AM
TD outplayed both barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith in his 4 year run. He was THE best rb in football those 4 years...playoffs or not.

barry was the best RB in the league in 1997 IMO

no doubt he was really good in those 4 years, he was on a fantastic team too.

broncos SB2010
02-07-2016, 10:41 AM
barry was the best RB in the league in 1997 IMO

no doubt he was really good in those 4 years, he was on a fantastic team too.

over the 4 year span TD started...he was better than Sanders...and really??? TD SB MVP in 1997 and Sanders had a better year???

baphamet
02-07-2016, 10:56 AM
In TDs "handful of playoff games" he still compiled better numbers than most guys who had twice the amount of games. He was only compete able to Sanders during his time and was dominant and feared. Longevity obviously weighs more than dominance and greatness on the biggest stage.

Gradishar and Atwater were downright dominant and the best at their respective positions during their career.

longevity of dominance YES.

in TD's case it's still 8 games in the playoffs and 4 years of dominance....... if TD gets voted into the HOF it will not be just because of those 8 games in the playoffs.



I really don't care about LT. He'll get in because of regular season longevity as you so estutely pointed out.

yeah your only concern is broncos players getting in, i got that message quite clearly. nevermind a player that has a long list of NFL records including going 8 straight years with at least 1200 yards rushing and 10 TD's

he had more yards from scrimmage on the worst team in football in 2003 than TD ever had in a season in his career on those great broncos teams, let that sink in for just a moment.

longevity of dominance should get you into the HOF, not 8 games of dominance in the playoffs when you are just a positional player.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 11:00 AM
over the 4 year span TD started...he was better than Sanders...and really??? TD SB MVP in 1997 and Sanders had a better year???

statistically speaking he was far greater than TD that year.

TD was the MVP of the SB, one game (sanders was the league MVP). Sanders rushed for 2053 yards and had a 6.1 average per rush that year on a far inferior team.

by the way, i'm not trying to stir the pot here, i know this isn't smack lol

i think TD might get in one day but it's difficult for him to get in for a reason.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 11:02 AM
longevity of dominance YES.

in TD's case it's still 8 games in the playoffs and 4 years of dominance....... if TD gets voted into the HOF it will not be just because of those 8 games in the playoffs.




yeah your only concern is broncos players getting in, i got that message quite clearly. nevermind a player that has a long list of NFL records including going 8 straight years with at least 1200 yards rushing and 10 TD's

he had more yards from scrimmage on the worst team in football in 2003 than TD ever had in a season in his career on those great broncos teams, let that sink in for just a moment.

longevity of dominance should get you into the HOF, not 8 games of dominance in the playoffs when you are just a positional player.

Dude, why are you coming at me like this is a smack thread?

Of course we are complaining about Broncos getting snubbed. It's a Broncos forum (though this thread was recently moved to "all teams").

Yay. LT was excellent and he'll get in. Nobody is even disputing that.

You don't think TD is worthy. HOF voters agree with you. Yippie. I still think he's worthy and there is plenty of reasons why - short of longevity.

This isn't a TD vs LT thread. Make a smack thread for that if that's what you want to talk about.

Jason Sitoke
02-07-2016, 11:03 AM
over the 4 year span TD started...he was better than Sanders...and really??? TD SB MVP in 1997 and Sanders had a better year???

Yes. Yes he did. Sanders rushed for over 2000 yards in 97.....in Detroit. Behind an average O line with Scott Mitchell at quarterback.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 11:08 AM
Bottom line: TD was the epitome of a HOF player. He passed the eye test. His buddy Curtis Martin said he was the best... Who cares how long he sustained it... Meteors have their place in the pantheon of celestial objects. Gale Sayers got in playing (basically) 5 seasons... TD had a better NFL career than Gale. Sayers gets in solely bc he was a college celebrity? So, the excuse of longevity is mute.

baphamet
02-07-2016, 11:09 AM
Dude, why are you coming at me like this is a smack thread?

Of course we are complaining about Broncos getting snubbed. It's a Broncos forum (though this thread was recently moved to "all teams").

Yay. LT was excellent and he'll get in. Nobody is even disputing that.

You don't think TD is worthy. HOF voters agree with you. Yippie. I still think he's worthy and there is plenty of reasons why - short of longevity.

This isn't a TD vs LT thread. Make a smack thread for that if that's what you want to talk about.

well the basis of your argument seemed to be TD's playoff performances, that's why i said that. you mentioned LT before did you not? sorry if my opinion differs from yours, it happens.

i never said TD was not worthy, i am just trying to add a different perspective because i see a lot of people acting like voters are biased against broncos players for some reason.

not trying to talk smack at all and sorry if it came off that way, my apologies.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 11:12 AM
Barry only played ten seasons... He had a playoff game where he rushed for -1yards... Had 40 and 65 in 2 others... Ouch.

I don't feel there is an anti Broncos bias... It's more that there is more support for other teams and players.

RocketArm006
02-07-2016, 11:15 AM
well the basis of your argument seemed to be TD's playoff performances, that's why i said that. you mentioned LT before did you not? sorry if my opinion differs from yours, it happens.

i never said TD was not worthy, i am just trying to add a different perspective because i see a lot of people acting like voters are biased against broncos players for some reason.

not trying to talk smack at all and sorry if it came off that way, my apologies.

No, I did not bring up LT at all - you did.

No matter. We obviously have differing opinions, which is what this is about.

broncolee
02-07-2016, 11:24 AM
Terrell Davis might be suffering from the myth of Mike Shanahan turning late round nobodies into household names.

Maybe people need to realize the myth just isn't true.

Maybe TD is being overlooked as a product of the system in which he played.

On the other hand, maybe the same people who aren't voting for him, wouldn't have voted for Gayle Sayers either, if they were the ones voting at that time.

fraguela09
02-07-2016, 11:26 AM
Orlandis Gary and Mike Anderson hurting TD. Probably true indeed.

brianmcfarlane
02-07-2016, 11:26 AM
What is the deal with Dan Reeves seemingly never mentioned for an HOF induction?

He has participated in more Super Bowls as player and coach than anyone else. He played in two Super Bowls, Super Bowl V and Super Bowl VI and also was an assistant coach in three more, Super Bowl X, Super Bowl XII, Super Bowl XIII, and was Head Coach in four more Super Bowl XXI, Super Bowl XXII and Super Bowl XXIV as the Denver Broncos' head coach, and Super Bowl XXXIII as the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. He was a HC for 3 different teams that won a playoff game - Broncos, Giants, Falcons - Considering how little some HOF inductees have accomplished, how does the man who participated in more SBs than any other person not get in?

2 Super Bowl champion (VI, XII)
6 NFC champion (1970, 1971, 1975, 1977, 1978, 1998)
3 AFC champion (1986, 1987, 1989)
2 AP NFL Coach of the Year (1993, 1998)
Denver Broncos Ring of Fame (2014)
201 NFL wins as a HC!

Here is an article on Dan Reeves/Broncos I found this week.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/patriarch-denver-broncos-former-coach-dan-reeves-234030803--nfl.html;_ylt=AwrVlB.iibdW_EUAMCZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMT ByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--
A little from the article...

''When you lose three Super Bowls, as we did, there's two people that get the blame for it: the head coach and the quarterback. ... Nobody could have been happier than I was (when Elway won his first), because he deserved to win championships,'' Reeves said.

''The next year, I wish he hadn't won, because I was on the other side. But I did think: If I'm going to get beat, I'm glad it's by someone I cared a lot about and respected a great deal,'' continued Reeves, whose 201 coaching victories, including playoffs, rank ninth in NFL history. ''Because there's no way I would have ever accomplished what I accomplished in the National Football League without John Elway.''

After a pause, Reeves added: ''I just wish I could have won one with him.''

L.M.
02-07-2016, 12:04 PM
Another example I gave was how Ira talked up Kevin Greene as an obvious candidate bc he was great at 1 thing (sacking the QB)... one of best ever Ira submitted... And then how Dungy winning a SB confirmed his status... and made you forgive all those playoff blemishes on his record. Even tho PM gets blamed for those 1-&-dones, and despite PM going to SB with 3 other HC and how Gruden won with the players Dungy couldn't win with.

Dungy was a defensive-minded coach and his tweaks to the Indy D by installing the Tampa 2 there was enough to push them over the hump and into the SB --just as on the flip-end Gruden's offensive retooling at Tampa got them over their hump. These coaches rotated into teams that needed their skills and it worked out perfectly!

Dungy is credited for being the first Afro-American coach to win a SB, and that is mainly why he got in.

A lot of people like to say "oh he doesn't belong in there, nor does player X!" But what standards are being used to measure that? Who's in the Hall already? Tons of people who don't fit fans preconceptions of who "should" belong there.


Anyway... I love Lynch. I just think if he is a HOF player than Atwater is. For some reason HOF votes have issue voting in FS and SS types. Not sure why. There's no reason why lynch jumps Atwater other than the powers of persuasion his advocate possesses compared to Atwater's.

Lynch played longer, and this matters to them. That's also a testament to his strength and endurance to maintain high level play longer. There's not a huge disparity between the time they played either which overlaps, one started in '89 the other in '93. It's not like one preceded the other by decades or something.


Atwater has more tackles in 4 less seasons, has only 2 less INT, and the disparity in FF and sacks is bc Lynch practically doubled those stats his last 4 years.

Are you suggesting that the HOF should discount Lynch's last four years when evaluating him? That would be insane if so.

Lynch's production is low in his first couple of years when he was not starting. He also missed half a season with injury (in '95) and his production was low when he did come back -still rehabbing.

The tackles difference is not that big of a deal when you consider all of the other plays made as a whole. Lynch was flying around the field making all kinds of plays and he had great instincts.


Given the ICONIC Atwater hit in SB 32.... A clutch play that sealed the game's fate... Given the iconic Okoya hit... The 3 SB appearances and 2 victories... The question remains: why the Atwater apathy?

So on the one hand, you say they are equal, but then you try to invoke stats and "iconic" plays as a way of saying Atwater was somehow better?

The iconic play of SB 32 was Elway's helicopter. Ask the average NFL fan and they will cite that, not an Atwater hit. That may stand out in your mind but not most people's. And it was John Mobley's bat of Favre's last pass that sealed that game -not that any of that matters to the HOF committee. As for quantity of SB rings...

SB 32 and 33, and the success that led to them, were on the strength of Shanahan's West Coast variant, "high octane" offense based on Elway's veteran leadership, the running of Davis and clutch play from Sharpe, not on some "powerful" defense led by Atwater. The D was decent, but mostly up front with the pass rush. The secondary was the weak link of that team, and everyone who was an adult back then and watching them, knows it. But some people look back at that team through a golden mist and see only greatness at every position. The corners were burned constantly, Braxton was mediocre at best, and Atwater was NOT playing at the same level that he did in his early years and was losing a step -the stats confirm my memory of this. He was good, but not the great, consistent 'smiling assassin' of yore. It was very frustrating to watch that whole unit. This is why Shanahan had no problem letting Steve go to the Jets to die off in '99, as he also let Crockett go to the Chiefs and Gordon to the Raiders. Our secondary didn't get a significant upgrade until 2004 when we traded for Bailey and signed Lynch as a countermeasure to Manning's Colts which had blown us out of the playoffs two postseasons in a row.

On the flipside, while Lynch has one less SB, it was primarily won with a ferocious, top-ranked, historic defense of which he was one of its captains and instrumental, chief playmakers.

I believe Atwater has been nominated to the HOF only once, while Lynch has had three nominations, and that is likely why he is up the queue.

I agree that safety is an overlooked, underrated position though. If it were up to me, I would have inducted them both by now along with Gradishar.


After all, they saying always goes: if you want to put a candidate in... who are you removing? The selective bias of these voters is forcing my hand here.

Ironically, everyone here complaining is coming from a Broncos-centric bias. If we were all fans of another team would we even care? I seriously doubt it.

I do think the HOF needs to raise the quantity of inductees per year. What's the purpose of this arbitrary limit someone pulled out of their ass? :rolleyes:

bfallona
02-07-2016, 12:21 PM
Here is some info from a great article I found comparing TD to Gayle Sayers. While Sayers was great, TD was better:
Let’s play a quick game called guess the HoF’er

A. 68 Gms, 4956 rushing yds, 72.9 yds/g 39 tds (rush), 112 rec, 1307 yds, 9 tds
91 kick returns, 6 td’s. 30 yards/return
never made playoffs

B. 78 Gms, 7607 rushing yds, , 97.5 yds/g 60 tds (rush), 169 rec, 1280 yds, 5 tds
No kick returns
Playoffs
8 Gms, 1140 rushing yds, 142.5 yds/g, 12 rush td’s, 19 rec, 131 yds

If you picked option A then you picked Gale Sayers who is in the HoF. I don’t even get why Gale Sayers is in the HoF in the first place, but if he is then why isn’t Davis? Davis put up better numbers by far compared to Sayers in 10 more games (which is not even a full season).

Jason Sitoke
02-07-2016, 12:41 PM
Barry only played ten seasons... He had a playoff game where he rushed for -1yards... Had 40 and 65 in 2 others... Ouch.

I don't feel there is an anti Broncos bias... It's more that there is more support for other teams and players.

TD should and will be in the hall. He is far more deserving than Sayers, Bettis, and Curtis Martin.

That being said...Barry Sanders was the best back I ever saw. His playoff performances have more to do with Detroit having an inferior team with no quarterback while tough early 90s NFC defenses just loaded up on stopping the run

flosstein
02-07-2016, 12:52 PM
What is the deal with Dan Reeves seemingly never mentioned for an HOF induction?

He has participated in more Super Bowls as player and coach than anyone else. He played in two Super Bowls, Super Bowl V and Super Bowl VI and also was an assistant coach in three more, Super Bowl X, Super Bowl XII, Super Bowl XIII, and was Head Coach in four more Super Bowl XXI, Super Bowl XXII and Super Bowl XXIV as the Denver Broncos' head coach, and Super Bowl XXXIII as the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. He was a HC for 3 different teams that won a playoff game - Broncos, Giants, Falcons - Considering how little some HOF inductees have accomplished, how does the man who participated in more SBs than any other person not get in?

2 Super Bowl champion (VI, XII)
6 NFC champion (1970, 1971, 1975, 1977, 1978, 1998)
3 AFC champion (1986, 1987, 1989)
2 AP NFL Coach of the Year (1993, 1998)
Denver Broncos Ring of Fame (2014)
201 NFL wins as a HC!

Here is an article on Dan Reeves/Broncos I found this week.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/patriarch-denver-broncos-former-coach-dan-reeves-234030803--nfl.html;_ylt=AwrVlB.iibdW_EUAMCZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMT ByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--
A little from the article...

''When you lose three Super Bowls, as we did, there's two people that get the blame for it: the head coach and the quarterback. ... Nobody could have been happier than I was (when Elway won his first), because he deserved to win championships,'' Reeves said.

''The next year, I wish he hadn't won, because I was on the other side. But I did think: If I'm going to get beat, I'm glad it's by someone I cared a lot about and respected a great deal,'' continued Reeves, whose 201 coaching victories, including playoffs, rank ninth in NFL history. ''Because there's no way I would have ever accomplished what I accomplished in the National Football League without John Elway.''

After a pause, Reeves added: ''I just wish I could have won one with him.''

Makes a great story line for next year when they put Mr.B in. Which should cause riots if he's not inducted in 2017. This league is what it is today because of Mr.B. I hate the TD and Atwater snubs every year, but Mr.B should be the very next Bronco.

brianmcfarlane
02-07-2016, 12:55 PM
Makes a great story line for next year when they put Mr.B in. Which should cause riots if he's not inducted in 2017. This league is what it is today because of Mr.B. I hate the TD and Atwater snubs every year, but Mr.B should be the very next Bronco.

I can't argue with that, although I'm not sure why 2017? He deserves at some point.

flosstein
02-07-2016, 01:20 PM
I can't argue with that, although I'm not sure why 2017? He deserves at some point.

An argument for any contributor that's worthy of HOF recognition. But there's some that mean just a tad bit more to that shield we all spend billions of dollars and countless hours obsessed with.And Mr.B is THE major player that turned the NFL into to juggernaut of entertainment (I say that against all forms) that it is today. He deserves immediate recognition, not 10-15 years down the line when we have to fight our point about his significance with numb skulls like Peter King.