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HUMCALC
06-01-2017, 05:59 PM
Who's everybody got and who's watching?

58_VONDOOM_92
06-01-2017, 06:10 PM
Warriors. Big Curry fan so go Warriors!

HUMCALC
06-01-2017, 06:14 PM
I clicked on the wrong team. I'm betting on GS, but I'm pulling for CLE

58_VONDOOM_92
06-01-2017, 08:28 PM
Can't see GS losing this series at all.

Spice 1
06-01-2017, 08:48 PM
Remember that debate about who the favorite for this series should be? lol.

ELWAY421
06-02-2017, 07:42 AM
This championship was decided when Durant signed with Golden St. They could win 2 or 3 more if they keep the team intact. Love the Cavs, but they're a roster full of old dudes, and no cap space. Hashtag ready for the football season.

58_VONDOOM_92
06-02-2017, 09:01 AM
This championship was decided when Durant signed with Golden St. They could win 2 or 3 more if they keep the team intact. Love the Cavs, but they're a roster full of old dudes, and no cap space. Hashtag ready for the football season.
Pretty much this. The 2nd best player on the planet joining a 73-9 team? Yeah it's unfair.

Bronco51
06-02-2017, 09:07 AM
I'm never going to question LeBron's will to win after last year's finals. But, I think it was one of you who said in the NBA thread that the Cavs defense is not championship caliber. It showed last night.

Joshua2585
06-02-2017, 09:14 AM
I'd love to see LeBron win another... especially considering GS has essentially put together a "Super Team" which will have no excuse not to have a dynasty and win 2-3+ more champs.

If LeBron wins this series, he gets put in Jordan status. Last years championship, when he put that team on his back and dragged them to victory, already proves he is one of the best ever.

Like someone else mentioned, I'd love to see LeBron get this, but it ain't happening. With KD, the warriors guaranteed themselves 2-3+ champs.

GS in 5.

Spice 1
06-02-2017, 09:37 AM
Pretty much this. The 2nd best player on the planet joining a 73-9 team? Yeah it's unfair.

Yeah, he's a boss now that he's playing w/GS. Screaming after uncontested layup dunks...smh. The saddest part of the whole thing is that the guy he left is going to win the MVP this year. If I were LeBron, I would've stayed in Cleveland, but that's the fan in me talking. He did what he had to do. Wade and Bosh could barely make the playoffs before they came together. Even Garnett, Allen, and Pierce were struggling before their big 3 (and let's be honest, that team never comes together unless Garnett ultimately agrees to re-sign with Boston).


I'm never going to question LeBron's will to win after last year's finals. But, I think it was one of you who said in the NBA thread that the Cavs defense is not championship caliber. It showed last night.

What really bugged me about last night's game, is that they reverted back to the March Cavs. Bigs don't hedge hard on pick and rolls. No help defense. For God's sake, you might want to stop the ball in transition. That was hot mess.

ELWAY421
06-02-2017, 10:44 AM
Pretty much this. The 2nd best player on the planet joining a 73-9 team? Yeah it's unfair.

I'm not even screaming it's unfair, and I'm a Cavs fan. It's the way the league is set up. The Warriors have drafted really well. The Cavs have added players like Frye, Korver, Williams & Jefferson. These guys are old and slow. If I was Cleveland I would do whatever it took to transform the roster over the summer including trading Kevin. Really wishing we would've kept Wiggins now lol. LeBron only has so long before the father time decline. Overall I'm just happy we got the championship last year, and I think we could've beat the Warriors the year before if not for the Love & Kyrie injuries.

beastlyskronk
06-04-2017, 07:38 PM
Why was Derrick Williams relegated to garbage time minutes? I thought he was a huge signing during the season and that if he could get comfortable with the team he'd be good for them in this series vs playing guys like Frye and Jefferson

Bronco51
06-04-2017, 07:39 PM
The second half has not been kind to the Cavs in either game.

broncoslover115
06-05-2017, 06:36 AM
The second half has not been kind to the Cavs in either game.

No kidding. I thought they were gonna hang with the Warriors and then the second half happened. lol

CanDB
06-05-2017, 12:54 PM
I expected GS to win this year. Yah, and I am one who was not excited about the Durant situation. I am not big on super stars going to a top seed. Not that it matters, but Durant would have been a fav had he stayed in Oklahoma and won it there. They were very close. Going to a great team will pay dividends for him, but I prefer that stars try to win the harder way, as opposed to walking into a stacked team.

I am quite sure he could care less what I think.

Regardless, cmon Cleveland, make it interesting!

DenverBlood
06-05-2017, 02:37 PM
I expected GS to win this year. Yah, and I am one who was not excited about the Durant situation. I am not big on super stars going to a top seed. Not that it matters, but Durant would have been a fav had he stayed in Oklahoma and won it there. They were very close. Going to a great team will pay dividends for him, but I prefer that stars try to win the harder way, as opposed to walking into a stacked team.

I am quite sure he could care less what I think.

Regardless, cmon Cleveland, make it interesting!

You mean like how Lebron went to team up with Superstars in Miami and then only came back to Cleveland once they had some?

Peanut
06-05-2017, 03:02 PM
Warriors.


How's that for being short and sweet? :D

Spice 1
06-05-2017, 04:28 PM
You mean like how Lebron went to team up with Superstars in Miami and then only came back to Cleveland once they had some?

In what warped alternate dimension was Dwyane Wade a back to back MVP, Mario Chalmers an All Star, Mo Williams an MVP, and Wade and Bosh capable of winning 73 games?

DenverBlood
06-05-2017, 06:56 PM
In what warped alternate dimension was Dwyane Wade a back to back MVP, Mario Chalmers an All Star, Mo Williams an MVP, and Wade and Bosh capable of winning 73 games?

You can't be serious. Just because KD joined a 73 man roster suddenly people are going to act like Lebron didn't do the exact same thing? Because joining Miami didn't land him in 4 straight NBA finals that he couldn't get done the first time in Cleveland?

And could only get to the three straight in Cleveland by coming back once Kyrie was there and campaigning for Kevin Love to be brought in.

Just cuz KD one upped him doesn't mean Lebron didn't invent the game of team up with stars.

I can't take anyone seriously who tries to act like Lebron didn't begin this new NBA era

DenverBlood
06-05-2017, 07:00 PM
I also find it humorous that people are getting all panicky and hateful at Durant and the Warriors win the series is exactly where it was a year ago heading back to Cleveland. And the scores haven't even been as lopsided as a year ago.

JJBroncoFan
06-05-2017, 08:36 PM
You can't be serious. Just because KD joined a 73 man roster suddenly people are going to act like Lebron didn't do the exact same thing? Because joining Miami didn't land him in 4 straight NBA finals that he couldn't get done the first time in Cleveland?

And could only get to the three straight in Cleveland by coming back once Kyrie was there and campaigning for Kevin Love to be brought in.

Just cuz KD one upped him doesn't mean Lebron didn't invent the game of team up with stars.

I can't take anyone seriously who tries to act like Lebron didn't begin this new NBA era

I agree, I loathe this super team era of team up basketball. I would have more respect for KD had he stayed, but he did no worse than LeBron, and with much more class.

I just don't understand how it improves a legacy, teaming up. Everyone tried to beat MJ, not join him. They couldn't beat him because he was the greatest. IMO, Lebron threw away his chance of being the GOAT the day he decided to take his talents to south beach (which is a bad way of saying it as well).

Spice 1
06-05-2017, 08:59 PM
You can't be serious. Just because KD joined a 73 man roster suddenly people are going to act like Lebron didn't do the exact same thing? Because joining Miami didn't land him in 4 straight NBA finals that he couldn't get done the first time in Cleveland?

And could only get to the three straight in Cleveland by coming back once Kyrie was there and campaigning for Kevin Love to be brought in.

Just cuz KD one upped him doesn't mean Lebron didn't invent the game of team up with stars.

I can't take anyone seriously who tries to act like Lebron didn't begin this new NBA era

You think LeBron is to blame for what Durant did? lol.

Who did LeBron play with for 7 years? It wasn't James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Did he have anybody half as good as those guys? DWade was getting bounced 4-1 in the first round, and Bosh wasn't even making the playoffs. What do you think Love and Irving were up to in MIN and CLE before LeBron? So what if he got two other all stars to go build a team with him. He didn't join a team that was already built with a back to back MVP and two other All NBA players, that just broke the NBA wins record. On top of all of that, he and Westbrook already proved they could beat them in the playoffs when they were up 3-1.

Your post is a work of fiction, man...never happened. The only way LeBron could've done anything close to what Durant did would be if he had joined the Kobe Lakers or the big 3 in Boston, and even then it wouldn't be as bad. Kobe was past his prime, and the big 3 were almost done.

DenverBlood
06-06-2017, 03:04 AM
You think LeBron is to blame for what Durant did? lol.

Who did LeBron play with for 7 years? It wasn't James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Did he have anybody half as good as those guys? DWade was getting bounced 4-1 in the first round, and Bosh wasn't even making the playoffs. What do you think Love and Irving were up to in MIN and CLE before LeBron? So what if he got two other all stars to go build a team with him. He didn't join a team that was already built with a back to back MVP and two other All NBA players, that just broke the NBA wins record. On top of all of that, he and Westbrook already proved they could beat them in the playoffs when they were up 3-1.

Your post is a work of fiction, man...never happened. The only way LeBron could've done anything close to what Durant did would be if he had joined the Kobe Lakers or the big 3 in Boston, and even then it wouldn't be as bad. Kobe was past his prime, and the big 3 were almost done.

You're cracking me up with the delusional excuses bro.

Spice 1
06-06-2017, 06:37 AM
You're cracking me up with the delusional excuses bro.

Either you don't like LeBron, or you just want to play contrarian to the Durant topic. LeBron wasn't on a team that drafted Scottie Pippen or had Shaquille O'Neal on it. Kevin McHale and Jerry West weren't about to trade Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol to the Cavs. For seven years he waited, and all they could come up with is broke down Ilgauskus and Mo Williams. What was he supposed to do? Stay in Cleveland and try to single handedly beat the next team with three superstars for his entire career? Was he supposed to watch helplessly while Dwight Howard dropped 25 a game at .650, because he didn't have a big on his team who could play any defense? I wanted him to stay as much as the next Cavs fan, and I was pissed, but he did what he had to do.

beastlyskronk
06-06-2017, 09:44 AM
I agree, I loathe this super team era of team up basketball. I would have more respect for KD had he stayed, but he did no worse than LeBron, and with much more class.

I just don't understand how it improves a legacy, teaming up. Everyone tried to beat MJ, not join him. They couldn't beat him because he was the greatest. IMO, Lebron threw away his chance of being the GOAT the day he decided to take his talents to south beach (which is a bad way of saying it as well).

Idk coming back from 3-1 against a 73 win team is a huge accomplishment and that alone put him back in the conversation with Jordan IMO. If he finds a way to turn this series around and win then no one can say he's not up there with Jordan.

And right now Cleveland has nothing outside of James and Irving. Love is soft and quite honestly isn't anything near what he was in Minnesota. They have JR smith trying to play like Shumpert and Shumpert trying to play like Smith. Richard Jefferson was a part of one of the biggest playoff collapses of all time with the New Jersey Nets 15 years ago. Deron Williams has been garbage since he left Utah and Channing Frye has never been that good. They traded for Korver who can't create for himself, JJ Reddick was being shopped if I'm not mistaken and would've been a better addition. Their bench is just old, slow, and awful. This team (and last years) is a far cry from the super team he had in Miami.

Part of this is LeBrons fault though, he's the one that wanted JR and Thompson so badly instead of the team putting that money towards players who Are worth it. He wanted Love over Wiggins etc. LeBron is a terrible GM.

Yakka27
06-06-2017, 10:53 AM
Idk coming back from 3-1 against a 73 win team is a huge accomplishment and that alone put him back in the conversation with Jordan IMO. If he finds a way to turn this series around and win then no one can say he's not up there with Jordan.

And right now Cleveland has nothing outside of James and Irving. Love is soft and quite honestly isn't anything near what he was in Minnesota. They have JR smith trying to play like Shumpert and Shumpert trying to play like Smith. Richard Jefferson was a part of one of the biggest playoff collapses of all time with the New Jersey Nets 15 years ago. Deron Williams has been garbage since he left Utah and Channing Frye has never been that good. They traded for Korver who can't create for himself, JJ Reddick was being shopped if I'm not mistaken and would've been a better addition. Their bench is just old, slow, and awful. This team (and last years) is a far cry from the super team he had in Miami.

Part of this is LeBrons fault though, he's the one that wanted JR and Thompson so badly instead of the team putting that money towards players who Are worth it. He wanted Love over Wiggins etc. LeBron is a terrible GM.

Uhhh... What?

Kevin Love is having by far his best season as a Cleveland Cavalier and in the middle of his best playoffs. Love this season matches his career averages in almost every major statistic. Yes he had some big seasons with MN but he was also on very bad basketball teams where he was asked to do much, much more. How could anyone complain about a third option, stretch 4 who averages 19 and 11? Get real. Chris Bosh's final season with LBJ he averaged 16 and 7, his very best season with LBJ was 19 and 8 and shot a whopping 24% from 3, compared to Love's 37%.

So yes Kevin Love this year is the best 3rd option on any team LeBron has EVER been on. It's so funny how any time LBJ's team is falling short, everyone quickly tries to discredit his supporting cast.

Let's quickly look at the numbers for MJ's Bulls 3rd options the year he won his titles.

'91 Horace Grant - 13/8
'92 Horace Grant - 14/10
'93 Horace Grant - 13/10
'96 Toni Kukoc - 13/4 Dennis Rodman - 6/15
'97 Toni Kukoc 13/5 Dennis Rodman - 6/16
'98 Toni Kukoc 13/4 Dennis Rodman 5/15

Just for fun let's look at Scottie Pippen's best season while winning an NBA title, 21/8. Scottie Pippen, MJ's Robin, averaged 21 points and 8 rebounds as the Bulls 2nd Option. Kevin Love averaged 19 and 11 this year. Scottie Pippen's career PER is 18.6 compared to Kevin Love's 21.19 (Which is the 34th best in NBA & ABA History).

Now I'm not going to sit here and say Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Scottie Pippen but the numbers speak for themselves. Also Kevin Love's style of play fits what LBJ wants to do perfectly. So yeah Love compares to Pippen and is LIGHT YEARS better than any 3rd option Jordan ever had to work with.

Kevin Love is a no brainer Hall of Famer and just matched his career averages, had his best season with the Cavs, and all LBJ fan boys want to do is complain about him.

Spice 1
06-06-2017, 10:56 AM
Idk coming back from 3-1 against a 73 win team is a huge accomplishment and that alone put him back in the conversation with Jordan IMO. If he finds a way to turn this series around and win then no one can say he's not up there with Jordan.

And right now Cleveland has nothing outside of James and Irving. Love is soft and quite honestly isn't anything near what he was in Minnesota. They have JR smith trying to play like Shumpert and Shumpert trying to play like Smith. Richard Jefferson was a part of one of the biggest playoff collapses of all time with the New Jersey Nets 15 years ago. Deron Williams has been garbage since he left Utah and Channing Frye has never been that good. They traded for Korver who can't create for himself, JJ Reddick was being shopped if I'm not mistaken and would've been a better addition. Their bench is just old, slow, and awful. This team (and last years) is a far cry from the super team he had in Miami.

Part of this is LeBrons fault though, he's the one that wanted JR and Thompson so badly instead of the team putting that money towards players who Are worth it. He wanted Love over Wiggins etc. LeBron is a terrible GM.

No arguments about LeBron's GM skills. I will disagree on JR, Love, and to a degree Thompson. In the past, JR's ability to get hot, and make contested 3's off the dribble was big. He's been a shell of himself this year, though. I finally turned the corner on the Love/Wiggins debate this year. Love isn't very athletic, and doesn't have much defensive awareness to speak of, but he typically balls when it counts. His ability to give them a post player to run the offense through, while also being a perimeter threat, has been very big for them this year. He just has to give max effort on the defensive end, on the glass, and compete. I think he's done that as well as he can in the first two games.

Thompson has been overpaid for his skill set, sure, but he has always been a wrecking ball on the glass. The Cavs aren't as good in pick and roll situations as they were will Delly, and that's hurt his offensive production a little. Despite all of that...he's been a non factor in this Finals. Idk about the Kardashian curse or whatever, but he's in full on FBI Witness Pro right now.

If I'm being dead honest, Kyrie has been as big of an issue as the role players. A lot of turnovers for little production. Not hitting open shots, and struggling to adjust to GS collapsing on him in the paint. I heard a rumor that his knee is bothering him, but that's just hearsay until I see him hobbling around. He just has to be better.

Spice 1
06-06-2017, 11:05 AM
Now I'm not going to sit here and say Kevin Love is a better basketball player than Scottie Pippen but the numbers speak for themselves. Also Kevin Love's style of play fits what LBJ wants to do perfectly. So yeah Love compares to Pippen and is LIGHT YEARS better than any 3rd option Jordan ever had to work with.

Kevin Love is a no brainer Hall of Famer and just matched his career averages, had his best season with the Cavs, and all LBJ fan boys want to do is complain about him.

I agree with most of the post, but I think you're missing the point when Cavs fans have complained about Love in the past. Who would you rather have defensively? Pippen, Harper, Grant, Rodman, Bosh or Kevin Love. Same thing goes for Kyrie. I can't speak for everyone, but my problem with Love has always been about the defensive end. To his credit, he's been pretty good in big games, though.

Yakka27
06-06-2017, 11:30 AM
I agree with most of the post, but I think you're missing the point when Cavs fans have complained about Love in the past. Who would you rather have defensively? Pippen, Harper, Grant, Rodman, Bosh or Kevin Love. Same thing goes for Kyrie. I can't speak for everyone, but my problem with Love has always been about the defensive end. To his credit, he's been pretty good in big games, though.

That's fair, he nor Kyrie are the most defensively gifted players on the planet, funny though that in Game 7 of last year there were really 3 defining moments as to why the Cavs won. Kyrie's 3, LBJ's block, and Kevin Love's defensive play on Curry. They probably rank in that order of importance, but just look at all the times where LeBron's supporting cast has bailed him out or stepped up in huge situations. I just get so tired of people trying to complain about LBJ's supporting cast when he has had it better than any other player this league has ever seen.

JJBroncoFan
06-06-2017, 11:49 AM
I'm not gonna get into the LeBron argument, everyone has their opinion and it's highly subjective. LeBron imo still needs to catch Magic, as that's his only real fair comparison to me. To compare overall greatness I don't think he has caught Kobe, let alone Jordan.

Spice 1
06-06-2017, 11:51 AM
That's fair, he nor Kyrie are the most defensively gifted players on the planet, funny though that in Game 7 of last year there were really 3 defining moments as to why the Cavs won. Kyrie's 3, LBJ's block, and Kevin Love's defensive play on Curry. They probably rank in that order of importance, but just look at all the times where LeBron's supporting cast has bailed him out or stepped up in huge situations. I just get so tired of people trying to complain about LBJ's supporting cast when he has had it better than any other player this league has ever seen.

Kyrie's ability to get his in clutch situations has been a major part of their success. Clay is doing a number on Kyrie when he's been on him so far, but they're going to need him to go off in order to win this series. I'd say you're about right looking at the last 7 seasons. He's had it pretty good. Conversely though, he had pretty bad the first 7.

JJBroncoFan
06-06-2017, 11:55 AM
That's fair, he nor Kyrie are the most defensively gifted players on the planet, funny though that in Game 7 of last year there were really 3 defining moments as to why the Cavs won. Kyrie's 3, LBJ's block, and Kevin Love's defensive play on Curry. They probably rank in that order of importance, but just look at all the times where LeBron's supporting cast has bailed him out or stepped up in huge situations. I just get so tired of people trying to complain about LBJ's supporting cast when he has had it better than any other player this league has ever seen.

I agree with you completely here, it's a bunch of excuses imo. LeBron has come up really small in big situations, that's nobodies fault but his own. I don't know if he has had it better than anyone but he isn't the victim he is made out to be at all.

ELWAY421
06-06-2017, 03:10 PM
I agree with you completely here, it's a bunch of excuses imo. LeBron has come up really small in big situations, that's nobodies fault but his own. I don't know if he has had it better than anyone but he isn't the victim he is made out to be at all.

LeBron is a 3 time champion, and has been to the finals 8 times. No matter how this series turns out he's cemented his legacy as one of the all time greats, and that's just fact. John Elway is my favorite all time Bronco, and if you compared LeBron's career to Elway's LeBron has accomplished more in his sport. Many of you would call that illogical, but if LeBron was on the Nuggets many of you would be singing a different tune. In fact if you'd all love LeBron to come to the Nuggets.

58_VONDOOM_92
06-06-2017, 05:28 PM
I'm not a Lebron guy at all and I actually like Durant better. With that said Lebron is right up there with a Jordan (Jordan is still the goat). If Lebron was on the Warriors I could see the Warriors maybe losing 5 games all year. KD had a absolute superstars in Westbrook and still couldn't make it to the finals. Also Harden was on those teams for a few years as well. If Lebron was on that OKC team I could see him winning multiple champions with that team. Just my opinion though.

JJBroncoFan
06-06-2017, 05:39 PM
LeBron is a 3 time champion, and has been to the finals 8 times. No matter how this series turns out he's cemented his legacy as one of the all time greats, and that's just fact. John Elway is my favorite all time Bronco, and if you compared LeBron's career to Elway's LeBron has accomplished more in his sport. Many of you would call that illogical, but if LeBron was on the Nuggets many of you would be singing a different tune. In fact if you'd all love LeBron to come to the Nuggets.

One of certainly, the question is one of how many? I think its likely he has gotten into the top 10, but not 5. I would put somewhere between 6-10, with some room to grow on an uphill battle. I couldn't care less about him being a Nugget either, nothing to do with it.

DenverBlood
06-07-2017, 04:52 PM
I'm not a Lebron guy at all and I actually like Durant better. With that said Lebron is right up there with a Jordan (Jordan is still the goat). If Lebron was on the Warriors I could see the Warriors maybe losing 5 games all year. KD had a absolute superstars in Westbrook and still couldn't make it to the finals. Also Harden was on those teams for a few years as well. If Lebron was on that OKC team I could see him winning multiple champions with that team. Just my opinion though.

Keep in mind this did not start as a conversation of who is greater. I don't think even many warriors or thunder fans would try to defend Durant in greatness.

The convo started because even if Durant joined a better Warriors team this whole new 'team up' era of NBA 110% absolutely started with Lebron. So while I can still see a majority of neutral fans hating Durant for it when he gets two games away from a title, it's absolutely hysterical and hypocritical to hear it from Cavs/Lebron fans.

ELWAY421
06-07-2017, 05:16 PM
Keep in mind this did not start as a conversation of who is greater. I don't think even many warriors or thunder fans would try to defend Durant in greatness.

The convo started because even if Durant joined a better Warriors team this whole new 'team up' era of NBA 110% absolutely started with Lebron. So while I can still see a majority of neutral fans hating Durant for it when he gets two games away from a title, it's absolutely hysterical and hypocritical to hear it from Cavs/Lebron fans.

It started with KG, Allen, and Paul P. You can't tell me otherwise.

DenverBlood
06-07-2017, 06:18 PM
It started with KG, Allen, and Paul P. You can't tell me otherwise.

Correct me if I forgot but weren't Ray Allen and KG acquired via trade? Cuz if so it's not the same thing.

If both were free agents then yes I concede it began there. Doesn't make any of it any better for us fans who root for teams that aren't benefiting from this collective Star era.

DenverBlood
06-07-2017, 06:20 PM
Yep. Looked it up. Celtics traded for KG and Allen. So it's not on the players at all. Though it still resulted in a stacked roster. Which for the record I was not a fan of them during that ERA.

Lebron began the era of recruiting stars to one location in Miami.

I'll cut him slack in Cleveland since Kyrie was drafted and they traded for Love.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 06:23 PM
It started with KG, Allen, and Paul P. You can't tell me otherwise.

You're correct, it did start with the Big 3, there is no disputing that imo. However, context is very important and not in favor of LeBron or Durant imo.

KG gave Minnesota all he had for 12 years of his career, stayed faithful and loyal for the majority of his career, and most of his prime. Ray Allen played for the Bucks for 7 years, then went to a pretty good Seattle team for another 5. Paul Pierce of course was the loyal Celtic, not much to say there. KG and Allen were leaving their prime, not entering it.

LeBron on the other hand was entering his prime years, and famously spit in the face of the fans he supposedly cares so much about, in his home town. I will admit he has grown since then, but he still rubs people the wrong way pretty regularly. Bosh and James both gave their teams 7 years, and bailed to team up in their prime years in an attempt to "buy" rings, not earn them. LeBron and the Heat were not the first to team up, but they were the first to team up in their primes. No matter how it's twisted, what LeBron did does not display the character of a loyal and competitive player.

Btw, while Durant gave OKC 9 years (with more help than LeBron had admittedly), I am on record holding the same against him. This opinion is in no way hating on LeBron, it's a completely valid point.

ELWAY421
06-07-2017, 06:31 PM
Correct me if I forgot but weren't Ray Allen and KG acquired via trade? Cuz if so it's not the same thing.

If both were free agents then yes I concede it began there. Doesn't make any of it any better for us fans who root for teams that aren't benefiting from this collective Star era.

Via trade doesn't matter to me. Kevin Love was acquired via trade and the Cavs have been labeled a super team. I'm not crying about Durant to the Warriors by no means, I totally understand its just the way the league is set up. I just don't think LeBron should take all of the blame for the so called super team.

To me the super team has been around for a long, long time. Magic, Worthy, and Kareem was a super team, those 80's Celtics teams were super teams imo.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 06:31 PM
Yep. Looked it up. Celtics traded for KG and Allen. So it's not on the players at all. Though it still resulted in a stacked roster. Which for the record I was not a fan of them during that ERA.

Lebron began the era of recruiting stars to one location in Miami.

I'll cut him slack in Cleveland since Kyrie was drafted and they traded for Love.

That is an excellent point I didn't consider, KG didn't want to leave at first either, to threatened to bolt if he was traded to the Celtics. Boston gave up a TON to bring in Allen and KG, Miami only gave up money.

58_VONDOOM_92
06-07-2017, 06:42 PM
I said Warriors in 5 but more and more watching this I think it may be a sweep.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 06:53 PM
Kerr is upset, and I don't blame him. They have been loose with the whistle for the Cavs, but nothing for GS. Let me guess, Durant gets ejected and Clay fouls out in the third now lol.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 07:05 PM
This is just getting ridiculous lmbo

Bronco51
06-07-2017, 07:20 PM
All that inspired ball and the Cavs are still down. And there's been some terrible officiating.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 07:44 PM
What is with the 2nd half starting and LeBron losing all aggressiveness. I mean seriously, he is either gonna score, the whistle is gonna blow, or both.

beastlyskronk
06-07-2017, 08:06 PM
Still a little sloppy but much better effort on the glass tonight by the cavs

beastlyskronk
06-07-2017, 08:07 PM
What is with the 2nd half starting and LeBron losing all aggressiveness. I mean seriously, he is either gonna score, the whistle is gonna blow, or both.

He has to get his rest without coming off the court

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 08:11 PM
He has to get his rest without coming off the court

Is this serious or sarcasm? The beginning of the third quarter, actually almost the entire third quarter he hung out and let Kyrie get it going. I get the 4th quarter argument, but his team is down 2-0 in the finals. I don't like that argument for the best player in the NBA.

beastlyskronk
06-07-2017, 08:14 PM
Is this serious or sarcasm? The beginning of the third quarter, actually almost the entire third quarter he hung out and let Kyrie get it going. I get the 4th quarter argument, but his team is down 2-0 in the finals. I don't like that argument for the best player in the NBA.

So you want him to play 48 minutes straight as hard as he can? I'm not sure what you're arguing? He could continue being aggressive but why when Kyrie took over and scored 16?

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 08:48 PM
So you want him to play 48 minutes straight as hard as he can? I'm not sure what you're arguing? He could continue being aggressive but why when Kyrie took over and scored 16?

Look, I'm not trying to be unfair to LeBron. He is the greatest player in the league, and his team is down 2-0 in the finals. His team has also been beat in the second half of both games. If you think he doesn't need to show more early in the second half, agree to disagree.

Edit: 27 in the 1st half, 12 in 2nd, team lost, enough said

Bronco51
06-07-2017, 08:48 PM
James and Irving played out of their minds and still lost at home. Wow.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 08:48 PM
Crazy finish, Durant was clutch

Spice 1
06-07-2017, 09:31 PM
Via trade doesn't matter to me. Kevin Love was acquired via trade and the Cavs have been labeled a super team. I'm not crying about Durant to the Warriors by no means, I totally understand its just the way the league is set up. I just don't think LeBron should take all of the blame for the so called super team.

To me the super team has been around for a long, long time. Magic, Worthy, and Kareem was a super team, those 80's Celtics teams were super teams imo.

I don't fully get the trade thing either. Like Pat Riley wasn't clearing cap space. So it's OK for McHale to trade Garnett to the Celtics hell or high water, while they were tanking, btw. Garnett told him to stick it, so Ainge and McHale went out and found a way to bring in Allen as a means to convince Garnett to re-up with the Celtics. Remember when Kobe wanted to be traded? Jerry West to the rescue.

Remember when the 76ers traded Wilt Chamberlain to a team with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor for, wait for it...Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark, and Darrall Imhoff? I wonder why? Maybe it's because Wilt Chamberlain demanded a trade to LA, or he was going to bolt to the ABA.

http://ballislife.com/why-did-the-76ers-trade-wilt-for-jerry-chambers-archie-clark-darrall-imhoff/

Super teams have always existed. LBJ took the phony trade scenario out of the equation, and all of sudden he's the guy responsible when people question what Kevin Durant did.

Wait, Clyde Drexler wants out? Send him to Houston for Otis Thorpe

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-01-05/sports/9501050302_1_all-star-guard-clyde-drexler-trade-request-rumors (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-01-05/sports/9501050302_1_all-star-guard-clyde-drexler-trade-request-rumors)

Kareem wants out, too? OK, send him to LA, because they are on his list.
http://behindthebuckpass.com/2016/09/07/milwaukee-bucks-history-kareem-abdul-jabbar-trade/

I wonder what LeBron haters would say if there was still no free agency, and he forced his way out of Cleveland and on to a super team like everybody else used to do?

Spice 1
06-07-2017, 09:35 PM
Crazy finish, Durant was clutch

He was. The end of the game was perplexing for the Cavs. LeBron passes the ball to Kyrie...Kyrie passes it right back to him. LeBron gave it up twice to Korver and Love down the stretch, and I honestly would rather see him shoot in those particular situations. This is who he is, but to a fault in this game, I think.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 09:57 PM
He was. The end of the game was perplexing for the Cavs. LeBron passes the ball to Kyrie...Kyrie passes it right back to him. LeBron gave it up twice to Korver and Love down the stretch, and I honestly would rather see him shoot in those particular situations. This is who he is, but to a fault in this game, I think.

He gets a lot of criticism for it as well. He hit that big 3 with about 4 to go, but then got pass happy. I don't know if it's just his game and he is following his instincts, which are undoubtedly superb, or if he doesn't feel comfortable in those moments. He gets bashed a lot in the "clutch" discussions, but I highly doubt that has got in his head. I know it's not really his game, but I would like to see him play a little more "hero ball." Down 3-0, everyone believes the series is over, I think he needs to come out looking for a double nickel type game, or at least that mentality. Magic Johnson is awesome, but they need him to channel his inner Kobe/MJ.

JJBroncoFan
06-07-2017, 10:17 PM
I don't fully get the trade thing either. Like Pat Riley wasn't clearing cap space. So it's OK for McHale to trade Garnett to the Celtics hell or high water, while they were tanking, btw. Garnett told him to stick it, so Ainge and McHale went out and found a way to bring in Allen as a means to convince Garnett to re-up with the Celtics. Remember when Kobe wanted to be traded? Jerry West to the rescue.

Remember when the 76ers traded Wilt Chamberlain to a team with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor for, wait for it...Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark, and Darrall Imhoff? I wonder why? Maybe it's because Wilt Chamberlain demanded a trade to LA, or he was going to bolt to the ABA.

http://ballislife.com/why-did-the-76ers-trade-wilt-for-jerry-chambers-archie-clark-darrall-imhoff/

Super teams have always existed. LBJ took the phony trade scenario out of the equation, and all of sudden he's the guy responsible when people question what Kevin Durant did.

Wait, Clyde Drexler wants out? Send him to Houston for Otis Thorpe

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-01-05/sports/9501050302_1_all-star-guard-clyde-drexler-trade-request-rumors (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-01-05/sports/9501050302_1_all-star-guard-clyde-drexler-trade-request-rumors)

Kareem wants out, too? OK, send him to LA, because they are on his list.
http://behindthebuckpass.com/2016/09/07/milwaukee-bucks-history-kareem-abdul-jabbar-trade/

I wonder what LeBron haters would say if there was still no free agency, and he forced his way out of Cleveland and on to a super team like everybody else used to do?

All of those guys except Kareem played at least 10 years before asking for their trade. Kareem didn't ask for LA specifically, they were among the teams he was interested in, and offered the best deal to the Bucks. None of those examples comes close to matching what James did, really only Durant does.

ELWAY421
06-07-2017, 10:48 PM
Look, I'm not trying to be unfair to LeBron. He is the greatest player in the league, and his team is down 2-0 in the finals. His team has also been beat in the second half of both games. If you think he doesn't need to show more early in the second half, agree to disagree.

Edit: 27 in the 1st half, 12 in 2nd, team lost, enough said

No, not enough said. 39 points, 11 rebounds, and 9 assists. Averaging a triple double in the finals, but enough said? Yet Russell Westbrook was knighted for his triple doubles this year, and is the MVP of the league supposedly? +/- with Lebron on the floor +7, with him on the bench - 12.


That's a great game, but the competition is just too much to overcome. Sometimes that happens. I'm getting the LeBron hater vibe from you dude. It's cool, though. You're definitely not a one man army when it comes to that.

The Warriors have two league MVP's, and four All Stars ,the Cavs have One league MVP, and three All Stars. No shame in losing to a great team. Especially when you've been to the finals 8 times, and won 3. The season will be over Friday, and on to foorball for me.

JJBroncoFan
06-08-2017, 06:13 AM
No, not enough said. 39 points, 11 rebounds, and 9 assists. Averaging a triple double in the finals, but enough said? Yet Russell Westbrook was knighted for his triple doubles this year, and is the MVP of the league supposedly? +/- with Lebron on the floor +7, with him on the bench - 12.


That's a great game, but the competition is just too much to overcome. Sometimes that happens. I'm getting the LeBron hater vibe from you dude. It's cool, though. You're definitely not a one man army when it comes to that.

The Warriors have two league MVP's, and four All Stars ,the Cavs have One league MVP, and three All Stars. No shame in losing to a great team. Especially when you've been to the finals 8 times, and won 3. The season will be over Friday, and on to foorball for me.

The Warriors have a great team, no doubt about that, but this is about LeBron, not them. He has all but disappeared in the second half. 11 4th quarter points in 3 games? You can't defend that, especially in a series that has been very competitive. Kyrie and Love have came thru this series as the number 2 and 3, nobody can pin this on them. I will admit I am not a LeBron fan, but that in itself does not make me wrong. If you're gonna argue the point let's not just lay out stats that don't show context and call people haters, it's lazy debate. There are Cavs fans out there saying the same thing, they didn't need him passing and trying to kick Andre in the boys last night.

Bronco51
06-08-2017, 07:36 AM
The Warriors have a great team, no doubt about that, but this is about LeBron, not them. He has all but disappeared in the second half. 11 4th quarter points in 3 games? You can't defend that, especially in a series that has been very competitive. Kyrie and Love have came thru this series as the number 2 and 3, nobody can pin this on them. I will admit I am not a LeBron fan, but that in itself does not make me wrong. If you're gonna argue the point let's not just lay out stats that don't show context and call people haters, it's lazy debate. There are Cavs fans out there saying the same thing, they didn't need him passing and trying to kick Andre in the boys last night.

Yeah, the 4th quarter thing is a major detraction. When the Cavs were up 4, that was time for James to close it out. I'll give him a pass for the first two games because they weren't competitive. But last night was his chance to be the man.

Spice 1
06-08-2017, 08:22 AM
All of those guys except Kareem played at least 10 years before asking for their trade. Kareem didn't ask for LA specifically, they were among the teams he was interested in, and offered the best deal to the Bucks. None of those examples comes close to matching what James did, really only Durant does.

Which is what I said. They were on his list. In other words, he dictated where he would play to his front office. The Lakers weren't a great team at that exact time, but it's still LA. They had won 6 championships up to that point. Imagine how things would've worked out if he'd been traded to Cleveland, for example. How many chips would Magic have? How many would Kareem have?

What Chamberlain did is essentially the exact same thing that LeBron did. Honestly man, nobody cares if LeBron waited 10 years or 7. That extra 3 years doesn't mean much when you look at what LeBron was working with. The 6ers had proven they could give Wilt what he needed when they won the championship in '67. The Lakers had proven they could bring in great players, and when they had a couple down years, Kobe didn't even wait until free agency before making it clear that he wanted out barring a big trade or free agent.

What Durant did is above and beyond anything we've ever seen. That's just a fact. You may think that what LeBron did was unprecedented, but it's been done before. The only difference is, people are tricked into thinking there was no collusion or player decisions, because the players were technically "traded". Nothing compares to what Durant did. LeBron is the obvious scapegoat, simply because of the media attention or spectacle of his move. He didn't enable Durant. Durant enabled Durant. It's excuse making for KD.

Yakka27
06-08-2017, 09:19 AM
Which is what I said. They were on his list. In other words, he dictated where he would play to his front office. The Lakers weren't a great team at that exact time, but it's still LA. They had won 6 championships up to that point. Imagine how things would've worked out if he'd been traded to Cleveland, for example. How many chips would Magic have? How many would Kareem have?

What Chamberlain did is essentially the exact same thing that LeBron did. Honestly man, nobody cares if LeBron waited 10 years or 7. That extra 3 years doesn't mean much when you look at what LeBron was working with. The 6ers had proven they could give Wilt what he needed when they won the championship in '67. The Lakers had proven they could bring in great players, and when they had a couple down years, Kobe didn't even wait until free agency before making it clear that he wanted out barring a big trade or free agent.

What Durant did is above and beyond anything we've ever seen. That's just a fact. You may think that what LeBron did was unprecedented, but it's been done before. The only difference is, people are tricked into thinking there was no collusion or player decisions, because the players were technically "traded". Nothing compares to what Durant did. LeBron is the obvious scapegoat, simply because of the media attention or spectacle of his move. He didn't enable Durant. Durant enabled Durant. It's excuse making for KD.

Nobody needs to make an excuse for KD. KD did exactly what he needed to do to win an NBA Championship. If you want to try and put an * next to that go ahead, but then it needs to go on LeBron's first two as well. They both punked out, hard. If you want to try and argue who was the bigger punk, go ahead, but still both very cowardly moves.

Spice 1
06-08-2017, 09:26 AM
Nobody needs to make an excuse for KD. KD did exactly what he needed to do to win an NBA Championship. If you want to try and put an * next to that go ahead, but then it needs to go on LeBron's first two as well. They both punked out, hard. If you want to try and argue who was the bigger punk, go ahead, but still both very cowardly moves.

Tell it to Russell Westbrook, when he's on the podium in a couple weeks.

ELWAY421
06-08-2017, 09:36 AM
Tell it to Russell Westbrook, when he's on the podium in a couple weeks.

LeBron is the scapegoat for every problem in the NBA it seems lol.

JJBroncoFan
06-08-2017, 09:38 AM
Yeah, the 4th quarter thing is a major detraction. When the Cavs were up 4, that was time for James to close it out. I'll give him a pass for the first two games because they weren't competitive. But last night was his chance to be the man.

This is my point exactly, well said. It's not meant to hate on LeBron in any way, I don't like him and will never be a fan, but I recognize his incredible talent. I love his Magic like game, but last night they needed a killer and some hero ball.

Spice 1
06-08-2017, 09:40 AM
LeBron is the scapegoat for every problem in the NBA it seems lol.

He'll always be the villain in the eyes of some.

JJBroncoFan
06-08-2017, 09:40 AM
Nobody needs to make an excuse for KD. KD did exactly what he needed to do to win an NBA Championship. If you want to try and put an * next to that go ahead, but then it needs to go on LeBron's first two as well. They both punked out, hard. If you want to try and argue who was the bigger punk, go ahead, but still both very cowardly moves.

Well put, and very true. I would say if that's true of KD's, it's true of all of LeBron's. He came back to Cleveland with stars to team up with as well.

Yakka27
06-08-2017, 10:40 AM
Well put, and very true. I would say if that's true of KD's, it's true of all of LeBron's. He came back to Cleveland with stars to team up with as well.

Yup, everyone wanted to make it out to be some generous move by LeBron to come home, but let's be real, if MN had won the Lottery and taken Kyrie Irving and the Cavs got stuck with Derrick Williams... No way LeBron would have ever "come home".

Spice 1
06-08-2017, 11:55 AM
Yup, everyone wanted to make it out to be some generous move by LeBron to come home, but let's be real, if MN had won the Lottery and taken Kyrie Irving and the Cavs got stuck with Derrick Williams... No way LeBron would have ever "come home".

Not that it impacts your "what if" LeBron scenario, but the Cavs didn't even have Derrick Williams on their draft board, for the record.

Yakka27
06-08-2017, 10:54 PM
Not that it impacts your "what if" LeBron scenario, but the Cavs didn't even have Derrick Williams on their draft board, for the record.

That would have helped them, then maybe they would have taken Enes Kanter instead of wasting 50 million dollars on Tristan Thompson. Great move GM LeBron.

Canmore
06-09-2017, 01:58 AM
That would have helped them, then maybe they would have taken Enes Kanter instead of wasting 50 million dollars on Tristan Thompson. Great move GM LeBron.

LeBron's the man!

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 07:44 AM
That would have helped them, then maybe they would have taken Enes Kanter instead of wasting 50 million dollars on Tristan Thompson. Great move GM LeBron.

I'll be the first to back you up on LeBron being a suspect GM, but the combination of LeBron and Griffin is at least better than Danny Ferry.

Griffin will probably get let go this offseason, which I think is a shame, because I don't think he's a bad GM. His hands are tied to a degree. Some of the draft moves were weird, but I think he let the scouts talk him more into potential than team needs. The Drummond/Waiters situation comes to mind. I was on board with what Waiters could become, and still am, but they needed a player like Drummond more than Waiters. Can't really blame anyone for the Bennett deal, because that draft sucked, but I didn't think Bennett was going to be very good from the start. It's funny, because the same reasons I didn't like Bennett are the reasons the Cavs didn't want to draft Derrick Williams. Too small for PF, and too slow to do much of anything else. On top of that Bennett couldn't shoot a lick. I think my glass half full post in here was, "poor man's Larry Johnson at best". Of course, I wanted them to take Noel. lol. Nobody saw Giannis and Gobert coming. They did pass on a slew of guys to take Thompson, but everybody passed on those guys. And Thompson was an integral part of them winning last year, despite how he's played lately.

EDIT: Check that, I forgot Griffin wasn't named acting GM until after Grant got fired. So Grant gets a majority of the blame or credit there.

But this is the Finals thread, so I'll roll with the Cavs tonight. I can see them putting up the same fight they put up in game 3, and maybe LBJ takes it upon himself late. Hopefully two of GS's scorers don't get hot at the same time. That seems to be a recurring theme, though. All three have been hot at times in this series. The Showtime Lakers and 96 Bulls can talk all they want, but good luck when Curry, Thompson, and Durant are all feeling it.

CanDB
06-09-2017, 08:32 AM
I'm going out on a limb and predicting a Golden State championship.......

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 12:26 PM
Which is what I said. They were on his list. In other words, he dictated where he would play to his front office. The Lakers weren't a great team at that exact time, but it's still LA. They had won 6 championships up to that point. Imagine how things would've worked out if he'd been traded to Cleveland, for example. How many chips would Magic have? How many would Kareem have?

What Chamberlain did is essentially the exact same thing that LeBron did. Honestly man, nobody cares if LeBron waited 10 years or 7. That extra 3 years doesn't mean much when you look at what LeBron was working with. The 6ers had proven they could give Wilt what he needed when they won the championship in '67. The Lakers had proven they could bring in great players, and when they had a couple down years, Kobe didn't even wait until free agency before making it clear that he wanted out barring a big trade or free agent.

What Durant did is above and beyond anything we've ever seen. That's just a fact. You may think that what LeBron did was unprecedented, but it's been done before. The only difference is, people are tricked into thinking there was no collusion or player decisions, because the players were technically "traded". Nothing compares to what Durant did. LeBron is the obvious scapegoat, simply because of the media attention or spectacle of his move. He didn't enable Durant. Durant enabled Durant. It's excuse making for KD.

This is wrong on every level....They both did the SAME thing man, only difference is Lebron did it before and made a espn special out of it...

How is KD's move any different from what lebron did twice ? Because he joined a 73-9 team ?

Lebron fan's are delusional man

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 12:29 PM
He gets a lot of criticism for it as well. He hit that big 3 with about 4 to go, but then got pass happy. I don't know if it's just his game and he is following his instincts, which are undoubtedly superb, or if he doesn't feel comfortable in those moments. He gets bashed a lot in the "clutch" discussions, but I highly doubt that has got in his head. I know it's not really his game, but I would like to see him play a little more "hero ball." Down 3-0, everyone believes the series is over, I think he needs to come out looking for a double nickel type game, or at least that mentality. Magic Johnson is awesome, but they need him to channel his inner Kobe/MJ.

He doesn't have it...

broncolee
06-09-2017, 01:31 PM
Well, at least the Raptors can sleep well knowing that, at least this time, it's the Cavaliers that have no shot.😗😀

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 02:34 PM
This is wrong on every level....They both did the SAME thing man, only difference is Lebron did it before and made a espn special out of it...

How is KD's move any different from what lebron did twice ? Because he joined a 73-9 team ?

Lebron fan's are delusional man

Did you skip the thread because reading's not your thing today, or were you just in a big ass hurry to throw your super original "multiple all stars/same thing" take into the discussion?

broncolee
06-09-2017, 02:48 PM
This is wrong on every level....They both did the SAME thing man, only difference is Lebron did it before and made a espn special out of it...

How is KD's move any different from what lebron did twice ? Because he joined a 73-9 team ?

Lebron fan's are delusional man

I'm not a LeBron James fan, but what he did is different than what Kevin Durant did.

James left to form a championship caliber team.

Durant punked out to go join a championship caliber team.

The Warriors don't need Durant to win a championship. He needed them.

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 03:30 PM
I'm not a LeBron James fan, but what he did is different than what Kevin Durant did.

James left to form a championship caliber team.

Durant punked out to go join a championship caliber team.

The Warriors don't need Durant to win a championship. He needed them.

The main thing for me is that LeBron and KD were in different situations. Not just the fact that LeBron built a team with guys who were struggling, as opposed to joining up with the likes of Boston or Los Angeles (hypothetically).

For context, I think this would've been closer to a scenario where Shaq was capable of, and decided to join the Chicago Bulls after the 96 playoffs if the Bulls had lost in the Finals. The difference, of course, would've been that Chicago swept the Magic, and the Thunder were up 3-1 on GS. Penny and Westbrook are both great players who Shaq and KD didn't always get along with (for whatever reasons).

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 04:19 PM
He doesn't have it...

I would like to find out either way, but I don't think we will

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 06:49 PM
Kicking and screaming???

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 06:51 PM
Did you skip the thread because reading's not your thing today, or were you just in a big ass hurry to throw your super original "multiple all stars/same thing" take into the discussion?

No i read it and i don't see the difference. ..

Supertar leaves team where he can't get over the hump to form big 3 vs Superstar leaves team because he can't win to join already existing big 3 ? How is that different ?


I'm not a LeBron James fan, but what he did is different than what Kevin Durant did.

James left to form a championship caliber team.

Durant punked out to go join a championship caliber team.

The Warriors don't need Durant to win a championship. He needed them.

Lebron left because he NEEDED Wade and Bosh...KD needed the warriors...Again how is that different ?

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 06:52 PM
Kicking and screaming???

That and some pretty intense and not so subtle home cooking....

beastlyskronk
06-09-2017, 07:01 PM
KD could have went to a lot of teams to form a formidable super team, he didn't need to go to a 73 win team. If he stays there this is only gonna result in guys like Paul George joining up with LeBron and the finals will consist of GSW and Cleveland every year for the foreseeable future. This destroys the NBA. Why would George go to the Lakers now and play with guys like Russell, Randall, Zubac and possibly the Ball brothers (yuck) when he would never have a chance to win a championship?

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 07:07 PM
KD could have went to a lot of teams to form a formidable super team, he didn't need to go to a 73 win team. If he stays there this is only gonna result in guys like Paul George joining up with LeBron and the finals will consist of GSW and Cleveland every year for the foreseeable future. This destroys the NBA. Why would George go to the Lakers now and play with guys like Russell, Randall, Zubac and possibly the Ball brothers (yuck) when he would never have a chance to win a championship?

Paul George to the Cavs would even the playing field so to speak, and if that happens, game on.

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 07:20 PM
I'm sorry people, but even if I wasn't a Cavaliers fan I wouldn't be able to stomach the Warriors! They have that Seahawks vibe! That cocky arrogant Richard Sherman/Pete Carroll chomping on my gum attitude.

beastlyskronk
06-09-2017, 07:33 PM
Paul George to the Cavs would even the playing field so to speak, and if that happens, game on.

The point is seeing the same two teams over and over again is bad for the game

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 07:33 PM
I'm sorry people, but even if I wasn't a Cavaliers fan I wouldn't be able to stomach the Warriors! They have that Seahawks vibe! That cocky arrogant Richard Sherman/Pete Carroll chomping on my gum attitude.

Lol LeBron is way more like a Richard Sherman than anyone on GS. Who makes a special to say they're ditching their home team? Who makes a special period? As a matter of fact the way he whines is very reminiscent of the Sherman cry in their superbowl loss. Lets not forget how tough he is staring down woman in the crowd and picking on ball boys, awesome baller but trash character.

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 07:45 PM
Lol LeBron is way more like a Richard Sherman than anyone on GS. Who makes a special to say they're ditching their home team? Who makes a special period? As a matter of fact the way he whines is very reminiscent of the Sherman cry in their superbowl loss. Lets not forget how tough he is staring down woman in the crowd and picking on ball boys, awesome baller but trash character.

LeBron reminds you of Richard Sherman? Wow, just wow. Trash character? I can't even respond to that trash!

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 07:48 PM
The point is seeing the same two teams over and over again is bad for the game

Agreed, but the Cavs have no choice but to try and keep up with Jones's

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 07:49 PM
LeBron reminds you of Richard Sherman? Wow, just wow. Trash character? I can't even respond to that trash!

So respond to the examples I provided, I would love to see someone defend that behavior.

beastlyskronk
06-09-2017, 08:00 PM
I know no team has come back from 3-0 but I would not be jawing at LeBron like that. He doesn't need any extra motivation

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 08:02 PM
Lol new year same crap, no way that's a tech

beastlyskronk
06-09-2017, 08:03 PM
I can't stand how Green plays. I don't care about the emotion and all the talking but all the extra motions with every move he makes is absurd.

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 08:33 PM
LeBron reminds you of Richard Sherman? Wow, just wow. Trash character? I can't even respond to that trash!

He complains and cry about every call, flops at every single contact and acted with zero class after the finals last year with his curry doormat....

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 08:48 PM
He complains and cry about every call, flops at every single contact and acted with zero class after the finals last year with his curry doormat....

Yup and as I'm typing this he even flops when hit by his own teammate lol, he must be the most dainty 280 pounder in the world

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 08:49 PM
He complains and cry about every call, flops at every single contact and acted with zero class after the finals last year with his curry doormat....

Draymond? I agree, he cries about every call, it's getting old. I can't believe he hasn't been ejected yet!

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 08:53 PM
This sucks... winning in 5 is not enough, i wanted Lebron to get swept...

Anyway see yall game 5 and hopefully the refs call the game like they know how to do their job and the warriors stop with the stupid turnovers

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 08:57 PM
The so called greatest team ever isn't no longer undefeated in the playoffs!!! Kicking & Screaming!

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 08:58 PM
Draymond? I agree, he cries about every call, it's getting old. I can't believe he hasn't been ejected yet!

Lol cmon man, you skip over all the argument that apply to lebron and make your bad joke about the 1 thing Draymond and Lebron share together...

Cavs fan really are delusional when it comes to their king...

ELWAY421
06-09-2017, 09:01 PM
Cavs In 7

10char

Bronco51
06-09-2017, 09:06 PM
Well, if they can drop 20+ threes a game, they might make it interesting.

beastlyskronk
06-09-2017, 09:15 PM
No i read it and i don't see the difference. ..

Supertar leaves team where he can't get over the hump to form big 3 vs Superstar leaves team because he can't win to join already existing big 3 ? How is that different ?



Lebron left because he NEEDED Wade and Bosh...KD needed the warriors...Again how is that different ?

There is a key difference though, Wade, Bosh, and James had never played together before. Durant joined a team where there core had already won a championship and has been playing together for years. LeBron lost his first finals in Miami and the lack of chemistry was part of that plus the bench in Golden State is better than what that Miami team had at that point in time.

Basically LeBron formed a championship team, Durant joined a championship team. Wade and Bosh also needed LeBron as much as he needed them. The Warriors did not need Durant.

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 09:17 PM
Cavs In 7

10char

Lol no way they shoot the 3 like that 3 games in a row....

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 09:19 PM
This sucks... winning in 5 is not enough, i wanted Lebron to get swept...

Anyway see yall game 5 and hopefully the refs call the game like they know how to do their job and the warriors stop with the stupid turnovers

The refs were bad in game 3 too, GS said nope though. They didn't show the effort they did in the first three, way too many wide open threes. Give the Cavs credit though, they were hot and deserved to win. I think Monday is gonna be rough on the Cavs though, nobody will want to say it but the refs played a big role in games 3 and 4.

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 09:20 PM
There is a key difference though, Wade, Bosh, and James had never played together before. Durant joined a team where there core had already won a championship and has been playing together for years. LeBron lost his first finals in Miami and the lack of chemistry was part of that plus the bench in Golden State is better than what that Miami team had at that point in time.

Basically LeBron formed a championship team, Durant joined a championship team. Wade and Bosh also needed LeBron as much as he needed them. The Warriors did not need Durant.

But who cares if the warriors did or did not need KD ?

This is about Lebron leaving the team he has been with his whole career to form up with 2 other superstars and chance a ring vs KD leaving the team he has been with his whole career and joining superstars to chase a ring...It's the exact same thing, who cares what the circumstances of the team they are joining is different ?!

Am i taking crazy pill here or what ?

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 09:25 PM
That and some pretty intense and not so subtle home cooking....

Warriors get outscored by 39 at the 3pt line, and this guy blames the refs.


He complains and cry about every call, flops at every single contact and acted with zero class after the finals last year with his curry doormat....

Kevin Durant goes full diva mode tonight after getting hit in the head on a layup, and then gets a flagrant on top of it. You know how many times I've watched LeBron get hit in the head on a layup with a no call? GTHO.

Molly Qerim should take that broom and go 50 Shades on Jalen Rose. He's not going to need it anymore.

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 09:27 PM
But who cares if the warriors did or did not need KD ?

This is about Lebron leaving the team he has been with his whole career to form up with 2 other superstars and chance a ring vs KD leaving the team he has been with his whole career and joining superstars to chase a ring...It's the exact same thing, who cares what the circumstances of the team they are joining is different ?!

Am i taking crazy pill here or what ?

Crazy pill.

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 09:29 PM
But who cares if the warriors did or did not need KD ?

This is about Lebron leaving the team he has been with his whole career to form up with 2 other superstars and chance a ring vs KD leaving the team he has been with his whole career and joining superstars to chase a ring...It's the exact same thing, who cares what the circumstances of the team they are joining is different ?!

Am i taking crazy pill here or what ?

I see it the same way you do, they're both kind of punk moves imo. I can't understand it, these guys are supposed to be the most competitive people in the world. If I won something that way I would be haunted by the, "you couldn't have done this without teaming up." I feel like it cheats the sport personally. I don't see a difference between what KD and Lebron did, but the similarities end there.

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 09:35 PM
I see it the same way you do, they're both kind of punk moves imo. I can't understand it, these guys are supposed to be the most competitive people in the world. If I won something that way I would be haunted by the, "you couldn't have done this without teaming up." I feel like it cheats the sport personally. I don't see a difference between what KD and Lebron did, but the similarities end there.

You at least agree with me though, that LeBron didn't start this teaming up thing right? If anybody did, Wilt Chamberlain did. I mean, let's keep it real as hell. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor are top 25 all time. If that's not a super team, I don't know what is. It took them 4 years to win, but they were playing the Celtics.

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 09:42 PM
Warriors get outscored by 39 at the 3pt line, and this guy blames the refs.



Kevin Durant goes full diva mode tonight after getting hit in the head on a layup, and then gets a flagrant on top of it. You know how many times I've watched LeBron get hit in the head on a layup with a no call? GTHO.

Molly Qerim should take that broom and go 50 Shades on Jalen Rose. He's not going to need it anymore.

I acknowledge the kicking and screaming part... Cavs where blessed from the 3 point line tonight, and i said warriors had too many TO's...

But if you can't see that the refs giving what 11 FT's in the 1st quarter to the cavs gave them a bunch of momentum and that they haven't been calling the games consistently you are a blind homer...Curry has been getting killed every time he drives and never gets the calls, yet Kyrie gets every call....I was watching the game with a bulls fan, jazz fan, heat fan and a bunch of neutral ball fans, everyone agreed the 1st half of that game went all cavs reffing wise...



And PELEASE, are you REALLY going to sit there and try to act like Lebron does NOT get the calls :laugh: Really ?

The man who pulled a draymond in game 3 and kicked Iggy in the nuts and didn't get suspended ( See how the warriors didn't call the league office about it )

The man who holds the ball like a RB and barrels threw defenders and ALWAYS gets the blocking calls and never the charges he should, they never call him on his forearm extension on his signature attacking the bucket drives.

The man who flops after getting hit by his own teammate ( raps game 6 last year) and still gets the foul.

The man who for most of his career has walked and has gotten it called like a fifth of the time.

The strongest, biggest, fastest meanest dude the NBA has ever seen to fall so easy from any sort of contact and ALWAYS getting the calls ?!

You are going to try and sell me that one of the players that has had some the most preferential treatment in NBA's history does NOT get the calls ?

Really ?

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 09:43 PM
Crazy pill.

It couldn't bet the Lebron glasses you have on ? ITS THE SAME THING MAN

JJBroncoFan
06-09-2017, 09:54 PM
You at least agree with me though, that LeBron didn't start this teaming up thing right? If anybody did, Wilt Chamberlain did. I mean, let's keep it real as hell. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor are top 25 all time. If that's not a super team, I don't know what is. It took them 4 years to win, but they were playing the Celtics.

I do agree with you on the Wilt point, it's fair. Wilt and Lebron are alike in many ways. Where I disagree is the started it part, it's not like it became a trend or even is one now. Kareem doesn't fit in, he just didn't want to play for the Bucks because it was Milwaukie. He didn't set out to team up with stars, he just wanted out. LeBron and KD ran the same play, and I don't like either decision.

On another note, anyone being honest has to agree the way James went about his is an entirely different animal. Leaving his home team, the special, coming back when the team got stars, playing gm then calling out the gm. While I agree the decisions are the same, the manner in which they were done separates the character element contextually.

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 10:01 PM
I acknowledge the kicking and screaming part... Cavs where blessed from the 3 point line tonight, and i said warriors had too many TO's...

But if you can't see that the refs giving what 11 FT's in the 1st quarter to the cavs gave them a bunch of momentum and that they haven't been calling the games consistently you are a blind homer...Curry has been getting killed every time he drives and never gets the calls, yet Kyrie gets every call....I was watching the game with a bulls fan, jazz fan, heat fan and a bunch of neutral ball fans, everyone agreed the 1st half of that game went all cavs reffing wise...



And PELEASE, are you REALLY going to sit there and try to act like Lebron does NOT get the calls :laughing: Really ?

The man who pulled a draymond in game 3 and kicked Iggy in the nuts and didn't get suspended ( See how the warriors didn't call the league office about it )

The man who holds the ball like a RB and barrels threw defenders and ALWAYS gets the blocking calls and never the charges he should, they never call him on his forearm extension on his signature attacking the bucket drives.

The man who flops after getting hit by his own teammate ( raps game 6 last year) and still gets the foul.

The man who for most of his career has walked and has gotten it called like a fifth of the time.

The strongest, biggest, fastest meanest dude the NBA has ever seen to fall so easy from any sort of contact and ALWAYS getting the calls ?!

You are going to try and sell me that one of the players that has had some the most preferential treatment in NBA's history does NOT get the calls ?

Really ?

I see the problem already. You're watching the game with a Bulls and Heat fan. lol.

If you want to blame the refs for the Warriors losing, ask them why they didn't call a tech on Zaza for hitting Shumpert in the stones. Ask them why they changed a tech on Draymond to a tech on Kerr two quarters after the fact. Let's assume for the sake of convo, that you've seen a lot of organized basketball before. Have you ever in your life seen a ref go back and change a foul call two quarters after it happened?

And don't give me crap about LeBron travelling. He travels a truck load, I know. But everybody in the NBA travels. From Isaiah Thomas constantly palming the ball to Steph Curry taking four steps just about every time he shoots a step back three. And don't act like James Harden isn't the biggest traveler in the NBA, because if you watch the league, you know he is.

If KD got fouled on a routine basis like LeBron, there's a pretty good chance he'd be on IR right now. I remember saying this exact thing about Isaiah Thomas before the Eastern Finals, and what happened? Go back and watch some vintage MJ games, and check out how he is officiated.

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 10:09 PM
I do agree with you on the Wilt point, it's fair. Wilt and Lebron are alike in many ways. Where I disagree is the started it part, it's not like it became a trend or even is one now. Kareem doesn't fit in, he just didn't want to play for the Bucks because it was Milwaukie. He didn't set out to team up with stars, he just wanted out. LeBron and KD ran the same play, and I don't like either decision.

On another note, anyone being honest has to agree the way James went about his is an entirely different animal. Leaving his home team, the special, coming back when the team got stars, playing gm then calling out the gm. While I agree the decisions are the same, the manner in which they were done separates the character element contextually.

Some fair arguments in there, no doubt.

I'm just asking that you put LeBron and Durant's situations with their previous teams into context. Polar opposites. But LeBron went back to his home team, and made it right. Grant it, you and Yakka make a good point about what was waiting for him, but then you're splitting hairs about the Wiggins/Love trade and speculating about his intentions. They got those draft picks because he left, and honestly they would've been better if not for the monumentally bad draft in 13.

canadiansbronco
06-09-2017, 10:29 PM
I see the problem already. You're watching the game with a Bulls and Heat fan. lol.

If you want to blame the refs for the Warriors losing, ask them why they didn't call a tech on Zaza for hitting Shumpert in the stones. Ask them why they changed a tech on Draymond to a tech on Kerr two quarters after the fact. Let's assume for the sake of convo, that you've seen a lot of organized basketball before. Have you ever in your life seen a ref go back and change a foul call two quarters after it happened?

And don't give me crap about LeBron travelling. He travels a truck load, I know. But everybody in the NBA travels. From Isaiah Thomas constantly palming the ball to Steph Curry taking four steps just about every time he shoots a step back three. And don't act like James Harden isn't the biggest traveler in the NBA, because if you watch the league, you know he is.

If KD got fouled on a routine basis like LeBron, there's a pretty good chance he'd be on IR right now. I remember saying this exact thing about Isaiah Thomas before the Eastern Finals, and what happened? Go back and watch some vintage MJ games, and check out how he is officiated.

Again...you are skipping over the my points who don't support your argument...I said jazz fan and neutral ball fans...And i never blamed the refs lol, i said warriors had to many TO's and missed wide open 3 while the cavs shot 67 %....But they did give the cavs a bunch of momentum, and have been calling fouls on the warriors that they never call on the cavs all series...

Now the refs have been pretty terrible for both teams all series, but this one was pretty horrible and the cavs only started getting the short end of the stick when the game was already over.

But lets look at the plays you mentioned...Zaza never came close to his stones, he got him in the knee era and it was a get of me shove...What was Schumpert doing just standing there anyway ?

Now the Draymond play, the refs clearly realised he over reacted by calling a tech, becase there was no way that was atech, and instead of just admitting that, they went in the back and tried to change it. Gross incompetence ? Absolutely, but that was not a tech in the 1st place.

Again you skipped the lebron kick, how he always pushes off on his drives and never gets called for charges...

Travelling ? i'll give you that one, they all pretty much do.

And again how can you act like KD is soft or couldn't handle the fouls lebron takes, when lebron has some Marcus Smart worthy flops on his resume ?

And sure superstar get the preferential treatment, Kobe got it, MJ got it, KD gets it, but are the one that suggested lebron is never getting the calls...


This is why i can't stand arguing with cavs/Lebron fans, you just skip right over what you can't defend or don't like...

This all started with the Sherman comment, where me and the other poster gave you legitimate points that you just went over them without answering them and deflected on daryamond...What about the curry doormat, staring down that lady, the complaining, flopping ?

Spice 1
06-09-2017, 10:51 PM
Again...you are skipping over the my points who don't support your argument...I said jazz fan and neutral ball fans...And i never blamed the refs lol, i said warriors had to many TO's and missed wide open 3 while the cavs shot 67 %....But they did give the cavs a bunch of momentum, and have been calling fouls on the warriors that they never call on the cavs all series...

Now the refs have been pretty terrible for both teams all series, but this one was pretty horrible and the cavs only started getting the short end of the stick when the game was already over.

But lets look at the plays you mentioned...Zaza never came close to his stones, he got him in the knee era and it was a get of me shove...What was Schumpert doing just standing there anyway ?

Now the Draymond play, the refs clearly realised he over reacted by calling a tech, becase there was no way that was atech, and instead of just admitting that, they went in the back and tried to change it. Gross incompetence ? Absolutely, but that was not a tech in the 1st place.

Again you skipped the lebron kick, how he always pushes off on his drives and never gets called for charges...

Travelling ? i'll give you that one, they all pretty much do.

And again how can you act like KD is soft or couldn't handle the fouls lebron takes, when lebron has some Marcus Smart worthy flops on his resume ?

And sure superstar get the preferential treatment, Kobe got it, MJ got it, KD gets it, but are the one that suggested lebron is never getting the calls...


This is why i can't stand arguing with cavs/Lebron fans, you just skip right over what you can't defend or don't like...

This all started with the Sherman comment, where me and the other poster gave you legitimate points that you just went over them without answering them and deflected on daryamond...What about the curry doormat, staring down that lady, the complaining, flopping ?

I'm just skipping over the arguments that don't make any sense. Like comparing him to Richard Sherman when Draymond Green is basically Dennis Rodman with black hair. This is why love debating with LeBron haters. It's so easy.

The whole tech thing is like, yeah, it probably wouldn't have been a tech...unless you're the most obnoxious person in the NBA. Which Draymond Green is. It's the same reason he got suspended last year. I mean when you kick a guy in the boys like three times, it isn't going to take much to get hammered. And honestly, if you want to talk about how LeBron used to dance around during games then yeah. Just don't act like Stephen Curry doesn't do anything such as: High stepping across half court after a three. Turning and holding your hand up before the shot gets there. Celebrating for making a layup on LeBron (and then pulling the ball back out on a layup in game 4, because LeBron is in position for a chase down). And laying on the sidelines with a towel over your head like you're sleeping with a big lead.

And yeah, LeBron does get called for charges.

beastlyskronk
06-10-2017, 12:56 AM
And yeah, LeBron does get called for charges.

He's usually towards the tops for charges in the NBA.

JJBroncoFan
06-10-2017, 02:55 PM
Some fair arguments in there, no doubt.

I'm just asking that you put LeBron and Durant's situations with their previous teams into context. Polar opposites. But LeBron went back to his home team, and made it right. Grant it, you and Yakka make a good point about what was waiting for him, but then you're splitting hairs about the Wiggins/Love trade and speculating about his intentions. They got those draft picks because he left, and honestly they would've been better if not for the monumentally bad draft in 13.

I absolutely get the point about what Durant had in OKC compared to LeBron in Cleveland, it's how it goes though. OKC drafted well, yet they still couldn't get it done. Cleveland tried to build a team around James and failed, some of that falls on James playing GM though as well. Let's not forget he didn't always have superstar games in the losses either. I don't necessarily think either situation is worse, just different. James' departure was pretty dirty though in ways I think are less forgiving.

JJBroncoFan
06-10-2017, 03:03 PM
He's usually towards the tops for charges in the NBA.

According to this he is #23 in the league in offensive fouls, it doesn't break it down further though. I have a hard time believing your claim based on that. He gets away with the same stuff Shaq did, it's like letting Gronk push off.

http://www.nbaminer.com/player-foul-details/

beastlyskronk
06-10-2017, 03:54 PM
According to this he is #23 in the league in offensive fouls, it doesn't break it down further though. I have a hard time believing your claim based on that. He gets away with the same stuff Shaq did, it's like letting Gronk push off.

http://www.nbaminer.com/player-foul-details/

There's only 3 players on there ahead of him that aren't big men. The big men are up there for setting moving screens.

They don't keep track of charges but there's an article from 2011 saying he had 40 charges which was tied for the most that year. And going through this list by the years he's usually top 3 or 5 in offensive fouls out of players that put themselves in position the most for charging. Harden, James, Antetokoumpo, and Westbrook are the most common names.

JJBroncoFan
06-10-2017, 06:41 PM
There's only 3 players on there ahead of him that aren't big men. The big men are up there for setting moving screens.

They don't keep track of charges but there's an article from 2011 saying he had 40 charges which was tied for the most that year. And going through this list by the years he's usually top 3 or 5 in offensive fouls out of players that put themselves in position the most for charging. Harden, James, Antetokoumpo, and Westbrook are the most common names.

Assuming what you're saying is true, do you really believe he only commits 0.5 offensive fouls a game? That's not even including the ridiculous off the ball fouls he commits regularly just tossing people out of the way when boxing out. I'm sorry but I just can't take this part of the conversation seriously, LeBron gets away with far more than anyone else and it isn't even close.

beastlyskronk
06-10-2017, 09:30 PM
Assuming what you're saying is true, do you really believe he only commits 0.5 offensive fouls a game? That's not even including the ridiculous off the ball fouls he commits regularly just tossing people out of the way when boxing out. I'm sorry but I just can't take this part of the conversation seriously, LeBron gets away with far more than anyone else and it isn't even close.

Does he get away with fouls? Yes. Does he get away with far more than anyone else? No. All players especially superstars get away with calls. Thats just how the refs are, they don't show any more bias towards LeBron than they do Kevin Durant or other superstars.

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 08:33 AM
Does he get away with fouls? Yes. Does he get away with far more than anyone else? No. All players especially superstars get away with calls. Thats just how the refs are, they don't show any more bias towards LeBron than they do Kevin Durant or other superstars.

I think you're letting your fanhood blind you on this one, so we will just agree to disagree.

ELWAY421
06-11-2017, 08:42 AM
I think you're letting your fanhood blind you on this one, so we will just agree to disagree.

Your hate for LeBron is so strong you're doing research about charges? Lol

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 09:21 AM
Your hate for LeBron is so strong you're doing research about charges? Lol

The argument was made (by another poster) that LeBron gets away will traveling and charging disproportionately to other players. The reply was that he does not and that he is among the tops in the league at receiving charging calls. It takes 12 seconds to look up offensive foul stats which I did, which are not broken down into charging, illegal screen, off ball etc. If his fan base didn't have such a strong need to make things up to protect him I wouldn't have to do 12 seconds of hater digging, would I?

beastlyskronk
06-11-2017, 11:48 AM
I think you're letting your fanhood blind you on this one, so we will just agree to disagree.

My fan hood for the Nuggets? I'm not a LeBron fan by any means, I'm just not blinded by hate

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 12:37 PM
My fan hood for the Nuggets? I'm not a LeBron fan by any means, I'm just not blinded by hate

Your stat was incorrect and based only on what you thought, as well as your explanation. I have yet to find anywhere that breaks down offensive fouls into type. With that in mind, how could you know he is routinely in the tops in the league in charges? He has placed in the top 20 in offensive fouls once in 5 years. If you think that's legitimate when you watch the way he plays then I don't know what to tell you. If I'm blinded by hate then you're just blind.

ELWAY421
06-11-2017, 01:55 PM
The argument was made (by another poster) that LeBron gets away will traveling and charging disproportionately to other players. The reply was that he does not and that he is among the tops in the league at receiving charging calls. It takes 12 seconds to look up offensive foul stats which I did, which are not broken down into charging, illegal screen, off ball etc. If his fan base didn't have such a strong need to make things up to protect him I wouldn't have to do 12 seconds of hater digging, would I?

No need for me to protect LeBron at all. Even you put him in your top 11 of all time which is lower than I have him, but still says a lot. His cement isn't even dry yet. I feel no need to argue about LeBron's legacy, or whatever else. I consider LeBron one of the greats, and that's, that.

beastlyskronk
06-11-2017, 02:02 PM
Your stat was incorrect and based only on what you thought, as well as your explanation. I have yet to find anywhere that breaks down offensive fouls into type. With that in mind, how could you know he is routinely in the tops in the league in charges? He has placed in the top 20 in offensive fouls once in 5 years. If you think that's legitimate when you watch the way he plays then I don't know what to tell you. If I'm blinded by hate then you're just blind.

Basic inference, big men aren't going to have nearly as many charges as someone who is constantly driving to the basket. Youre just gonna act like big men aren't going to get offensive fouls at a higher rate due to moving screens? Or do you really think Dwight Howard is towards the top of the league in charges? Like I said out of the players who are routinely in position for a charging foul LeBron is always up there.

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 02:25 PM
No need for me to protect LeBron at all. Even you put him in your top 11 of all time which is lower than I have him, but still says a lot. His cement isn't even dry yet. I feel no need to argue about LeBron's legacy, or whatever else. I consider LeBron one of the greats, and that's, that.

I agree, he is one of the greats. Me putting him in my top 8-11 should be evidence enough that I'm not coming from a place of hating regarding James.

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 02:33 PM
Basic inference, big men aren't going to have nearly as many charges as someone who is constantly driving to the basket. Youre just gonna act like big men aren't going to get offensive fouls at a higher rate due to moving screens? Or do you really think Dwight Howard is towards the top of the league in charges? Like I said out of the players who are routinely in position for a charging foul LeBron is always up there.

Guys who play near or in the box play more physical a higher percentage of the time, it gets chippy down there. Your statement about penetrators is also true, but it's only half the story. James has the stiff arm and chicken wing thing going on, which is a foul is every sense of the word. He wouldn't get away with it in the Jordan era, look at what the Knicks and Pistons did to try to slow him down. Could you imagine a guy like LeBron that makes himself a target and whines the way he does? I think teams need to get more physical with him personally, not flagrant (well maybe flagrant now), but let him know he isn't going to get it easy.

ELWAY421
06-11-2017, 02:34 PM
I agree, he is one of the greats. Me putting him in my top 8-11 should be evidence enough that I'm not coming from a place of hating regarding James.

You're nitpicking, though. Draymond cries and throws a fit after every foul that's called on him it seems. LeBron has done great things for the cities of Cleveland, and Akron, even for the state of Ohio. Does he have flaws? Sure, we all do, except the man upstairs, but LeBron isn't this bad person Canadiansbronco tried to make him out to be. I simply said that Golden St was cocky similar to how I thought the Seahawks were.

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 02:51 PM
You're nitpicking, though. Draymond cries and throws a fit after every foul that's called on him it seems. LeBron has done great things for the cities of Cleveland, and Akron, even for the state of Ohio. Does he have flaws? Sure, we all do, except the man upstairs, but LeBron isn't this bad person Canadiansbronco tried to make him out to be. I simply said that Golden St was cocky similar to how I thought the Seahawks were.

To be fair, nitpicking is what is done when trying to pick the difference in all time greats. I think Draymond acts like an idiot most of the time and don't buy the emotional player stuff, never have. I don't recall him staring down woman in the audience or being a jerk to a ball boy though either, among of things. I don't know if I would go as far to say he is a bad person, but he does have some serious character flaws imo.

canadiansbronco
06-11-2017, 04:16 PM
You're nitpicking, though. Draymond cries and throws a fit after every foul that's called on him it seems. LeBron has done great things for the cities of Cleveland, and Akron, even for the state of Ohio. Does he have flaws? Sure, we all do, except the man upstairs, but LeBron isn't this bad person Canadiansbronco tried to make him out to be. I simply said that Golden St was cocky similar to how I thought the Seahawks were.

But i never said he was a bad person.....Not once did i bring anything not related to basketball....


And LOL what you said about Draymond....Lebron does the exact same thing.....

Spice 1
06-11-2017, 06:50 PM
To be fair, nitpicking is what is done when trying to pick the difference in all time greats. I think Draymond acts like an idiot most of the time and don't buy the emotional player stuff, never have. I don't recall him staring down woman in the audience or being a jerk to a ball boy though either, among of things. I don't know if I would go as far to say he is a bad person, but he does have some serious character flaws imo.

Are you referring to the time he threw the towel on the floor next to the ball boy, or something else? The towel incident was taken totally out of context, and dissing the towel boy was definitely not his intention. I will say this in LeBron's defense. Name his off the court issues. He doesn't have any, because he is genuinely a good dude. Maybe even to a fault. He'll go out of his way to help his teammates, and it's to the team's detriment in some occasions. Just like when he came back and tried to be cool with Durant after their conversation in game 4. Also like when he went to help a Warriors player up, and they wouldn't take his hand. The whole time I was saying, "LeBron, why are you trying to help this dude up right now?". But I'm old school. When I'm on the court, there's no such thing as friends. LeBron's not wired like that, idt. And I kind of wish he was.

JJBroncoFan
06-11-2017, 07:14 PM
Are you referring to the time he threw the towel on the floor next to the ball boy, or something else? The towel incident was taken totally out of context, and dissing the towel boy was definitely not his intention. I will say this in LeBron's defense. Name his off the court issues. He doesn't have any, because he is genuinely a good dude. Maybe even to a fault. He'll go out of his way to help his teammates, and it's to the team's detriment in some occasions. Just like when he came back and tried to be cool with Durant after their conversation in game 4. Also like when he went to help a Warriors player up, and they wouldn't take his hand. The whole time I was saying, "LeBron, why are you trying to help this dude up right now?". But I'm old school. When I'm on the court, there's no such thing as friends. LeBron's not wired like that, idt. And I kind of wish he was.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DAPObxATFsrQ&ved=0ahUKEwj7joCQnbfUAhUK4IMKHRQBDGEQwqsBCCEwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGYGlvfNoUAjag0-cMGCDzD-2jSmw

That's the specific situation I was referring to, but there are many compilations out there of the guy being a jerk or crybaby or both. I don't recall passing any judgement for off the court, but the guy can be a real turd on it.

broncolee
06-12-2017, 08:36 AM
The series ends tonight.

While the world gets back to normal with Cleveland losing, which is a good thing, it's sad that the Warriors will just be even more insufferable.

ELWAY421
06-12-2017, 03:46 PM
Cavs in 7

10char

Bronco51
06-12-2017, 06:42 PM
Horrible officiating, for both sides.

JJBroncoFan
06-12-2017, 06:53 PM
Horrible officiating, for both sides.

It's been pretty bad, I would prefer they swallow their whistles over this garbage.

JJBroncoFan
06-12-2017, 06:57 PM
That was the third push off with the left arm from Kyrie, I guess that counts as consistent

ELWAY421
06-12-2017, 07:11 PM
Warriors are on a roll now. Cavs look nervous out there now after a great start. It'll be to tough for Cleveland to catch up with them at their house. Look forward to a rematch next year .

ELWAY421
06-12-2017, 07:18 PM
I'm at work listening on the radio, but apparently West and Thompson were about to brawl. Cavs losing composure?

beastlyskronk
06-12-2017, 07:32 PM
I'm at work listening on the radio, but apparently West and Thompson were about to brawl. Cavs losing composure?

West shoved Kyrie and Thompson came to defend him. Then JR ran up and pushed West because that's JR.

Edit: I wouldn't say they're losing composure but they are definitely starting to look gassed, at least James and Irving are

beastlyskronk
06-12-2017, 08:33 PM
LeBron looks like a boxer that's out on his feet on defense

JJBroncoFan
06-12-2017, 08:34 PM
Durant showing what a superstar is suppose to do in the 4th quarter

ELWAY421
06-12-2017, 08:55 PM
Congrats to the Warriors! They were the better team. Proud the way Cavs fought back after the 2nd quarter. Nothing from stop this matchup from happening again next year except injuries. Looking forward to it.

Spice 1
06-12-2017, 09:00 PM
Would've been great to see Westbrook/Kyrie and LeBron/Durant go at it this year.

The funny thing is, this game was actually winnable. Too much dumb basketball from the Cavs players and the coaching staff in particular. Got to give them credit for the effort in games 3 and 4, at least.

DevilSpawn
06-12-2017, 09:11 PM
Congrats to the Warriors.

broncolee
06-12-2017, 09:20 PM
Would have been nice to see what would have happened if Pechulia wasn't dirty.

Would the Warriors have gotten to the finals, or would it have been the Spurs?:sad:

I hope at least one other team finds a way to compete next season. It will have to be in the West. The East has no answer for LeBron James.

DevilSpawn
06-12-2017, 09:27 PM
Glad the Knicks still suck. Ride this Lebron/Warriors wave... and THEN make your move. :dance:




:laugh:

:mad:

canadiansbronco
06-12-2017, 09:29 PM
KD was an absolute monster in the finals man

Bronco51
06-13-2017, 06:37 AM
Great game last night. No quit in the Cavs, KD was monstrous. Thank God the MJ comparisons go away.

canadiansbronco
06-13-2017, 08:31 AM
Lebron in his post game presser :
-" I have never played on a superteam, i am above the concept of supertram"


LOL ok lebron, he was so annoyed at that question, dude can't handle his greatness being questioned

Spice 1
06-13-2017, 11:30 AM
Would have been nice to see what would have happened if Pechulia wasn't dirty.

Would the Warriors have gotten to the finals, or would it have been the Spurs?:sad:

I hope at least one other team finds a way to compete next season. It will have to be in the West. The East has no answer for LeBron James.

I wish the Cavs were playing the Spurs. Pop has always done a good job gameplanning LeBron, but SA was down to one versatile player after Parker went out. Compare that to the Warriors, who've got five guys that can shoot, attack the basket, finish, and pass. After Leonard got hurt, they had nobody. Idc how good the system is, the Danny Green's of the world are screwed when you ask them to go out and be that kind of player.

Not that it mattered anyway. Spurs weren't beating the Warriors regardless.

Bronco51
06-13-2017, 03:59 PM
It's obvious the Cavs are picking up this guy in free agency

https://youtu.be/F1-w0VwbBPw

JJBroncoFan
06-13-2017, 06:40 PM
It's obvious the Cavs are picking up this guy in free agency

https://youtu.be/F1-w0VwbBPw

Hilarious! Gotta spread it

JJBroncoFan
06-13-2017, 06:41 PM
Lebron in his post game presser :
-" I have never played on a superteam, i am above the concept of supertram"


LOL ok lebron, he was so annoyed at that question, dude can't handle his greatness being questioned

Lebron, this is why people don't like you bro