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View Full Version : I think we should go corner or Tight end in the first round.



OrangeShadow
01-26-2005, 08:22 AM
There arent that many d lineman if any that will make an immediate impact if we draft them first round. If we go corner there are some very good ones in this draft marlin jackson comes to mind. If we can get heath miller he would help out the red zone situation tremendously.
If we still want to go d lineman high we could trade reub for a high second rounder and get someone like chris canty or mike patterson. My thing is why not go tight end or corner then just draft lineman high second??

ThrowDeep2#85
01-26-2005, 10:28 AM
that agrees...I'd be happy with Miller and Tuck. Two huge needs...

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/players/mockdraft_2005.html

BroncoStampede
01-26-2005, 11:46 AM
I highly doubt we will draft a TE. As M. Gan said yesterday, its way to early to have even a semi accurate mock draft available. With that said when april comes I really hope we dont draft a TE in the first. That would be a waste since Putzier played well and is relatively young. Also we have Carswell who is an awesome run blocker and he can also catch. We do need a TE, but i say take one in the later rounds. IMO our first pick has to be on defense, either on the line or a CB if we cant re-sign Walls or someone of his caliber. The biggest problem is the defensive line, something has to be done in free agency or the draft. Im sure Shanny knows this.

Sam_Z
01-26-2005, 12:05 PM
I highly doubt we will draft a TE. As M. Gan said yesterday, its way to early to have even a semi accurate mock draft available. With that said when april comes I really hope we dont draft a TE in the first. That would be a waste since Putzier played well and is relatively young. Also we have Carswell who is an awesome run blocker and he can also catch. We do need a TE, but i say take one in the later rounds. IMO our first pick has to be on defense, either on the line or a CB if we cant re-sign Walls or someone of his caliber. The biggest problem is the defensive line, something has to be done in free agency or the draft. Im sure Shanny knows this.

No matter how good Putz plays, if theres a Tight End that has more raw talent available when we pick (heath Miller) then Id say take him. Competetion is great and you know you cant go wrong, plus you could always trade the underachiever if hes that good to another team for multiple picks the following year, so no its not a waste at all! And I guarantee you that if Miller is on the board when we pick, Shanny will take him! He took Terry Pierce even though he had Al Wilson.

In-com-plete
01-26-2005, 01:09 PM
He took Terry Pierce even though he had Al Wilson.
He took Pierce because he didn't know if they would/could resign Al.
I think its a little early for these mock drafts. Pacman Jones is going in the top 10 maybe top 5, and this one has him going to SD @ 27.

ThrowDeep2#85
01-26-2005, 01:53 PM
Why would someone use a top 5 draft pick on a player who will take Ahmad Carroll's spot as most penalized young cornerback, next season?

Sam_Z
01-26-2005, 01:55 PM
He took Pierce because he didn't know if they would/could resign Al.
I think its a little early for these mock drafts. Pacman Jones is going in the top 10 maybe top 5, and this one has him going to SD @ 27.

Oh c-mon he knew Al would re-sign, he was even ready to slapp the franchise tag on him. But anyway Jeb is soon to be a free agent anyway so maybe he'll draft a TE incase he dont think he would/could resign Jeb. My point was he'll take the best player on the board, next time quote my whole statement.

PRBronco
01-26-2005, 03:34 PM
Seriously guys, rookie tight ends hardly ever contribute, we need a senior D lineman like shaun cody or hawthorne, someone mature and who can step in at a position of need.

Dream
01-26-2005, 03:43 PM
There arent that many d lineman if any that will make an immediate impact if we draft them first round. If we go corner there are some very good ones in this draft marlin jackson comes to mind. If we can get heath miller he would help out the red zone situation tremendously.
If we still want to go d lineman high we could trade reub for a high second rounder and get someone like chris canty or mike patterson. My thing is why not go tight end or corner then just draft lineman high second??

We'll be in a position to get a Defensive Lineman who can make an impact only in the first round.

Chris Canty blows, he's so injury prone.

Justin Tuck, are you joking?

The longer we wait to get a lineman, the worse they get. Hence your first sentence, "there aren't many defensive lineman that can make an immediate impact." Thus, us waiting longer will only enhance our chances of getting a mediocre defensive lineman. That's our most pressing need and has been for several years now.

You know how well we do with drafting CB's in round one. We have plenty of guys who can do the job but we had bad injuries all year to our CB core and it was devistated. LeSeuer can be a great corner in the future and it was a shame that he was on IR all season long. I can see us taking a cornerback in the second round or with the picks we get for Droughns (if he is traded) or the compensation picks for Bertrand Berry and Ian Gold (which should equate out to a third rounder).

Why would we need a tight end? Heath Miller isn't a high caliber guy.

Heath Miller has just about as much talent as Jeb Putzier, Putzier knows the system, therefore he's better. He's just as good as an athlete and he's even a better blocker than Miller, (which is hard to believe but he is).

PrimeTime; I strongly disagree with you, we won't be picking Heath Miller. I've stated so many points to all the "Miller Praisers" and not one of them was able to come back with a logical argument against what I have had to say. If you'd like me to repeat to you those same exact arguments, I'd be more than happy to do so.

Give me one reason why Putzier isn't good enough for the job, honestly.

Look at his stats and they're darn good. Remember he's usually working in a two-tight end set, where Carswell is on the field too. Take all the numbers of the ends we have and add them together to form one "elite" end and their numbers are comparable to that of Gonzalez, Gates, Witten, etc. Remember that we have enough options on the field so our tight end isn't either the #1 or #2 target on each play.

You look at Shannon's numbers and when they were high, it's because we didn't have two solid receivers. Shannon's numbers decreased when Eddy started getting more throws his way. Remember Shannon was with the Ravens when Eddy and Rod had their huge years.

You can never expect for us to have a replacement to Sharpe. Not even close.

Putzier right now is the next best thing and we'll be able to re-sign him for cheap.

Heath Miller isn't the best player on the board at #25 -- my guess is he could be gone by then or he'll slip on by and go to a team like the Jets.

No way are we talking a cornerback or tight end with our first pick.

Javalon
01-26-2005, 04:08 PM
There arent that many d lineman if any that will make an immediate impact if we draft them first round. If we go corner there are some very good ones in this draft marlin jackson comes to mind. If we can get heath miller he would help out the red zone situation tremendously.
If we still want to go d lineman high we could trade reub for a high second rounder and get someone like chris canty or mike patterson. My thing is why not go tight end or corner then just draft lineman high second??
I'll be happy if Shanahan & Company never draft a cornerback again. They should stick to running backs and linebackers. In fact, why not draft entirely running backs and linebackers and then trade them to other teams since everybody knows they'll be good. ;) We could trade them for cornerbacks and maybe a few receivers since we've had little luck (Lelie breaking that trend?) in those areas.

The Dark Knight
01-26-2005, 04:12 PM
I'll be happy if Shanahan & Company never draft a cornerback again. They should stick to running backs and linebackers. In fact, why not draft entirely running backs and linebackers and then trade them to other teams since everybody knows they'll be good. ;) We could trade them for cornerbacks and maybe a few receivers since we've had little luck (Lelie breaking that trend?) in those areas.



I think Lelie is still coming along a little slower than he should. He can only get the deep balls. DB's are all over him inside 20 yards of the LOS. He has great top speed but slow acceleration and he still gets man handled. He can't escape under 20 yards, his only choice is to out run them with his top speed, hence 20 yards per catch average.

The Dark Knight
01-26-2005, 04:18 PM
I think Lelie is still coming along a little slower than he should. He can only get the deep balls. DB's are all over him inside 20 yards of the LOS. He has great top speed but slow acceleration and he still gets man handled. He can't escape under 20 yards, his only choice is to out run them with his top speed, hence 20 yards per catch average.


I'd also like to mention that hindsight is 20/20 and I have 20 other ways to say 20.

In-com-plete
01-26-2005, 04:26 PM
Oh c-mon he knew Al would re-sign, he was even ready to slapp the franchise tag on him. But anyway Jeb is soon to be a free agent anyway so maybe he'll draft a TE incase he dont think he would/could resign Jeb. My point was he'll take the best player on the board, next time quote my whole statement.
Denver always takes the best player on the board. :confused:

Pierce wasn't the best player on the board in the 2003 draft. I remember the "experts" questioning that pick and saying he was raw. They said it was probably just in case Denver couldn't sign Al. I know he got hurt last year, but why was he an ILB, and then this year switched to OLB?

Am I not allowed to quote part of a statement? I as anyone else can quote a little, alot, or the whole ******* thing!

Mat'hir Uth Gan
01-26-2005, 07:37 PM
Our first round pick will be a DE, that's a positive.

Heath Miller won't be around at 25, and I'm inclined to keep Putzier and draft for defense.

However, if we lose Putzier in FA, then, and only then, do I believe we may trade up and make a play at Miller. I do not believe that will happen though. But if we lose Putzier, TE becomes a serious issue. Of course, Bubba Franks is a possibility in that situation as well.

In the second round, the quality D-linemen will be gone. You may have a "reach" DT available that might be worth a gamble, but the second round looks pretty strong for O-linemen, specifically guards. Depending on our FA success, I could see this pick going towards an interior lineman.

It's really too early to tell, but it seems to me DE at pick 25 is a lock, and the 2nd round pick is completely best player available.

bronx_2003
01-26-2005, 07:43 PM
Our first round pick will be a DE, that's a positive.

Heath Miller won't be around at 25, and I'm inclined to keep Putzier and draft for defense.

However, if we lose Putzier in FA, then, and only then, do I believe we may trade up and make a play at Miller. I do not believe that will happen though. But if we lose Putzier, TE becomes a serious issue. Of course, Bubba Franks is a possibility in that situation as well.

In the second round, the quality D-linemen will be gone. You may have a "reach" DT available that might be worth a gamble, but the second round looks pretty strong for O-linemen, specifically guards. Depending on our FA success, I could see this pick going towards an interior lineman.

It's really too early to tell, but it seems to me DE at pick 25 is a lock, and the 2nd round pick is completely best player available.

do you think eramus james will be there and is he the best DE? (i watch little college football, being from england)

Javalon
01-26-2005, 11:44 PM
Our first round pick will be a DE, that's a positive.

Heath Miller won't be around at 25, and I'm inclined to keep Putzier and draft for defense.

However, if we lose Putzier in FA, then, and only then, do I believe we may trade up and make a play at Miller. I do not believe that will happen though. But if we lose Putzier, TE becomes a serious issue. Of course, Bubba Franks is a possibility in that situation as well.

In the second round, the quality D-linemen will be gone. You may have a "reach" DT available that might be worth a gamble, but the second round looks pretty strong for O-linemen, specifically guards. Depending on our FA success, I could see this pick going towards an interior lineman.

It's really too early to tell, but it seems to me DE at pick 25 is a lock, and the 2nd round pick is completely best player available.
Okay, what if there's an unexpected run on defensive linemen in the first round and we find ourselves looking at late second round talent D-linemen? Should the Broncos draft on need and go D-line anyway? Or should we look elsewhere? I hate drafting on need but we have a serious need. Tough situation.

PRBronco
01-27-2005, 12:03 AM
If there's a run on D linemen (god that would suck) we should grab david baas, then in the second get mike patterson. Or, i supposed we could just trade out of the first, maybe get 2 seconds?

ThrowDeep2#85
01-27-2005, 09:29 AM
Our first round pick will be a DE, that's a positive.

It's really too early to tell, but it seems to me DE at pick 25 is a lock, and the 2nd round pick is completely best player available.


I hope you are wrong. I want them to draft Best player avaliable, no matter what. Saying they are going to draft a DE, no matter what, is a plan doomed to fail....

ChiefSurgeon
01-27-2005, 09:47 AM
Take a run at Carlos Rogers or Shaun Cody in the first round...if Roth is still there...then take him...

Jason Campbell in the Second

They just need to be sure to maximize their draft options via the Droughns trade...

Mat'hir Uth Gan
01-27-2005, 12:37 PM
Okay, what if there's an unexpected run on defensive linemen in the first round and we find ourselves looking at late second round talent D-linemen? Should the Broncos draft on need and go D-line anyway? Or should we look elsewhere? I hate drafting on need but we have a serious need. Tough situation.

Barring trades, we HAVE to pick a DE/DT.

If nothing else, this year proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can't win unless we get some pressure on the QB.

- It's unrealistic to bank on Pryce coming back and being dominant, and he's been in a steady decline for a few years before his injury anyhow.

- It's not only possible, but completely realistic, that we lose Hayward. He will ask for a contract similar to Berry's 5 year, 25 million deal w/ a 5 mil + signing bonus.


So, if we don't sign a key D-line player, which we won't because If we have any money we will use it all on Hayward, the only way to improve our feeble pass rush is the draft.

I mean, what else is going to happen?
- Marco Coleman, if resigned, brings a decent wave DEs, but his stats over the last 5-6 years haven't changed. No miracle pressure there.

- Luther Elliss is severly injured and probably will retire.

- Elliss Johnson wants big money, and if we resign him, there's no guarantee he will ever be dominent like he was for that one season in Atlanta's 3-4 defense. However, there very well could be some miracle pass rush here...if we can afford to resign him, if he doesn't retire, and if he gets in shape for once.

- Fetafehi, Pope are ok at DT for clogging lineman, but they can't collapse the pocket, and shouldnt be starters. Pope has some upside, but no miracle pressure is going to happen here.

- Dorsett Davis has potential, but he's played 11 games in 3 years and can't stay healthy. Who really knows what he can do, he's an enigma. He's also a FA, and there is no telling if we resign him or not. Theoretically, albeit not likely, he could supply a miracle pass rush.

- Hayward does fine, but we most likely can't afford him, but if we do, he brings pass rushing skills but little else. He's not good against the run, but at least he puts pressure on teh QB. He's not going to get much better though, so the pressure he will provide will be the same as this year, which is not enough by itself.

- Trevor Pryce. 300lb men dont come back from spinal problems and dominate. That's a fact. Its all about leverage, and leverage originates from your spine, hence, the problem in the first place. He's going to be an expensive, injury threat from here until he retires, which could be very soon. I would say there's a possibility for a miraculous recovery and some instant QB pressure, but in reality, there is not. Even if he heals up to a degree, he'll be a shadow of himself, especially for this next season.

- Patrick Chukwarah. He looks good to me, but he's young and hardly played at all this year. Probably more suitable as an OLB in a 3-4, he may develop into a smallish but successful DE in a few years. Not likely to provide a miracle pass rush this next season.


Right now, our BEST CASE scenario is to:
- Hold onto Hayward, who will bring his typical 50ish tackle, 10ish sack season.
- Resign Johnson, hope he turns into the 35ish tackle, 10ish sack threat he was in Atlanta.
- Plug in Fetafehi and Pope for their combined 5 sacks and 50 tackles, if that.
- Pray beyond all reasonableness that Trevor comes back and has a 50 tackle, 10 sack season. (I predict, if he can actually play again, a 30 tackle, 5 sack season).
- Hope Coleman resigns and contributes another 25 tackles, 3-5 sacks.
- Pray Chukwarah supplies some pass rush here and there from DE.


Even in the best case scenario, we aren't a dominating line because we have no one to collapse the pocket, despite some speed rushers. Which means it's an all or nothing deal, get to the QB, or he has all day to pick apart our secondary. Same thing as this year and we saw how that turned out.



Summary:
We can't afford D-line help in FA, the best we can do is spend all our money to keep Hayward and Johnson. The Broncos have absolutely no choice, they must get 2nd string (at least) players for the D-line who can cause immediate pressure. If we dont, the same thing will happen as the last few years.

So basically, in answer to your question Javalon. They have to draft need, because they aren't going to get help from anywhere else. And if they don't fix that D-line, next year will be a replay of this year.

bry422
01-28-2005, 11:16 AM
Barring trades, we HAVE to pick a DE/DT.

If nothing else, this year proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can't win unless we get some pressure on the QB.

- It's unrealistic to bank on Pryce coming back and being dominant, and he's been in a steady decline for a few years before his injury anyhow.

- It's not only possible, but completely realistic, that we lose Hayward. He will ask for a contract similar to Berry's 5 year, 25 million deal w/ a 5 mil + signing bonus.


So, if we don't sign a key D-line player, which we won't because If we have any money we will use it all on Hayward, the only way to improve our feeble pass rush is the draft.

I mean, what else is going to happen?
- Marco Coleman, if resigned, brings a decent wave DEs, but his stats over the last 5-6 years haven't changed. No miracle pressure there.

- Luther Elliss is severly injured and probably will retire.

- Elliss Johnson wants big money, and if we resign him, there's no guarantee he will ever be dominent like he was for that one season in Atlanta's 3-4 defense. However, there very well could be some miracle pass rush here...if we can afford to resign him, if he doesn't retire, and if he gets in shape for once.

- Fetafehi, Pope are ok at DT for clogging lineman, but they can't collapse the pocket, and shouldnt be starters. Pope has some upside, but no miracle pressure is going to happen here.

- Dorsett Davis has potential, but he's played 11 games in 3 years and can't stay healthy. Who really knows what he can do, he's an enigma. He's also a FA, and there is no telling if we resign him or not. Theoretically, albeit not likely, he could supply a miracle pass rush.

- Hayward does fine, but we most likely can't afford him, but if we do, he brings pass rushing skills but little else. He's not good against the run, but at least he puts pressure on teh QB. He's not going to get much better though, so the pressure he will provide will be the same as this year, which is not enough by itself.

- Trevor Pryce. 300lb men dont come back from spinal problems and dominate. That's a fact. Its all about leverage, and leverage originates from your spine, hence, the problem in the first place. He's going to be an expensive, injury threat from here until he retires, which could be very soon. I would say there's a possibility for a miraculous recovery and some instant QB pressure, but in reality, there is not. Even if he heals up to a degree, he'll be a shadow of himself, especially for this next season.

- Patrick Chukwarah. He looks good to me, but he's young and hardly played at all this year. Probably more suitable as an OLB in a 3-4, he may develop into a smallish but successful DE in a few years. Not likely to provide a miracle pass rush this next season.


Right now, our BEST CASE scenario is to:
- Hold onto Hayward, who will bring his typical 50ish tackle, 10ish sack season.
- Resign Johnson, hope he turns into the 35ish tackle, 10ish sack threat he was in Atlanta.
- Plug in Fetafehi and Pope for their combined 5 sacks and 50 tackles, if that.
- Pray beyond all reasonableness that Trevor comes back and has a 50 tackle, 10 sack season. (I predict, if he can actually play again, a 30 tackle, 5 sack season).
- Hope Coleman resigns and contributes another 25 tackles, 3-5 sacks.
- Pray Chukwarah supplies some pass rush here and there from DE.


Even in the best case scenario, we aren't a dominating line because we have no one to collapse the pocket, despite some speed rushers. Which means it's an all or nothing deal, get to the QB, or he has all day to pick apart our secondary. Same thing as this year and we saw how that turned out.



Summary:
We can't afford D-line help in FA, the best we can do is spend all our money to keep Hayward and Johnson. The Broncos have absolutely no choice, they must get 2nd string (at least) players for the D-line who can cause immediate pressure. If we dont, the same thing will happen as the last few years.

So basically, in answer to your question Javalon. They have to draft need, because they aren't going to get help from anywhere else. And if they don't fix that D-line, next year will be a replay of this year.

Everything you said is the straight truth, Mat. Mirrors what I said twice in these forums. Those that still think a new TE is going to solve our problems just don't see it. For those that think Miller at TE is the answer, I hope we do take him, so we can go 10-6 for a 3rd year and get booted out of the playoffs in the first round again. Then maybe you'll see that TE was not the problem.