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PsychoChicken
02-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Most people visiting this board are under the opinion that we need to draft NT, assuming the 3-4 becomes used about 50% of the time (4-3, Nickel, and sometimes Dime making up the other 50%). That could not be further from the truth. Allow me to explain.

Who says our NTs suck? I haven't seen much of Monsanto Pope in college, but I can tell you that Mario Fatafehi can get the NT job done. So what exactly is the NT job? It's:

a) Stuffing the run up the middle
b) Occupying the offensive line to help out the ends and blitzing linebackers

Mario Fatafehi did those two things on nearly every play in his Kansas State career. He fits the mold of a 3-4 NT and is perfectly satisfactory for the job. He was not necessarily double teamed, but he simply distracted offensive linemen. I just wish he would either learn to dance or not dance at all. Pope has also proven to be a solid run stopper. Both should put on a little weight, and they both can probably do so easily. That is why the Broncos need not draft a nose tackle in round 1. That position is adequately filled and is not a glaring weakness. Besides, you can't have everyone you want on your defense. Even the Patriots have to make compromises. It's not that big of a deal to have adequate players when you can't afford the best, seriously.

Next, say the Broncos re-sign Kenoy Kennedy. Say goodbye to Reggie Hayward. Actually, say the Broncos do not re-sign Kenoy Kennedy. Say goodbye to Reggie Hayward anyway. The 3-4 would render him useless. Do not even try to argue with that fact. Hayward is too lean, too expensive, and a subpar run stopper. I would not be surprised if he ended up with Arizona alongside Bert Barry.

With all that aside, the Broncos need to draft a defensive end. With an end rotation of Pryce, Johnson, Coleman, and a developing 1st day draft pick, the 3-4 would really work well. Personally, I would like the Broncos to draft Shaun Cody if he is available. If he is not, then the Broncos can wait until the 2nd round when there is not much of a dropoff in talent. There's another option if Shaun Cody is unavailable. A trade down into the early second round would make Matt Roth or Marcus Spears a good option.

To sum everything up, forget about drafting NT. The talent there is too thin and it's not like we need one anyway. Think DE.

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-01-2005, 05:42 PM
i never heard of us drafting an NT in the first, plus there aren't any first round talent NT's anyway, at least not like Vince Wilfork last year. I think everyone has been on the Shaun Cody band wagon for a while now.
I know I am
but your points on Fatefehi and Pope are very good, also Dorsett Davis is a monster if someone could kick his asss in to gear.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-01-2005, 05:43 PM
Most people visiting this board are under the opinion that we need to draft NT, assuming the 3-4 becomes used about 50% of the time (4-3, Nickel, and sometimes Dime making up the other 50%). That could not be further from the truth. Allow me to explain.

Who says our NTs suck? I haven't seen much of Monsanto Pope in college, but I can tell you that Mario Fatafehi can get the NT job done. So what exactly is the NT job? It's:

a) Stuffing the run up the middle
b) Occupying the offensive line to help out the ends and blitzing linebackers

Mario Fatafehi did those two things on nearly every play in his Kansas State career. He fits the mold of a 3-4 NT and is perfectly satisfactory for the job. He was not necessarily double teamed, but he simply distracted offensive linemen. I just wish he would either learn to dance or not dance at all. Pope has also proven to be a solid run stopper. Both should put on a little weight, and they both can probably do so easily. That is why the Broncos need not draft a nose tackle in round 1. That position is adequately filled and is not a glaring weakness. Besides, you can't have everyone you want on your defense. Even the Patriots have to make compromises. It's not that big of a deal to have adequate players when you can't afford the best, seriously.

Next, say the Broncos re-sign Kenoy Kennedy. Say goodbye to Reggie Hayward. Actually, say the Broncos do not re-sign Kenoy Kennedy. Say goodbye to Reggie Hayward anyway. The 3-4 would render him useless. Do not even try to argue with that fact. Hayward is too lean, too expensive, and a subpar run stopper. I would not be surprised if he ended up with Arizona alongside Bert Barry.

With all that aside, the Broncos need to draft a defensive end. With an end rotation of Pryce, Johnson, Coleman, and a developing 1st day draft pick, the 3-4 would really work well. Personally, I would like the Broncos to draft Shaun Cody if he is available. If he is not, then the Broncos can wait until the 2nd round when there is not much of a dropoff in talent. There's another option if Shaun Cody is unavailable. A trade down into the early second round would make Matt Roth or Marcus Spears a good option.

To sum everything up, forget about drafting NT. The talent there is too thin and it's not like we need one anyway. Think DE.


YES! YES! YES!

You get it!


As for the second part...

Cody would work as a DE/DT, our biggest need if we switched to a 3-4.

Matt Roth will likely be gone by the time we pick in the first round though, let alone sometime in the second. He would fit the DE/OLB mold.

We have oodles of choices with the DE/OLB or DE/DT types in the first two rounds. It makes sense to draft one of each type. We have 3 NTs on our roster (Including Dorsett Davis), someone somewhere started a rumor which is horribly false.

Sam_Z
02-01-2005, 07:12 PM
Sure super mario can play NT but can he be the physical force like we need him to be? I think thats why alot of folks are looking to draft a player that holds alot of promise such as Hawthorne and Cody!

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-01-2005, 07:59 PM
Sure super mario can play NT but can he be the physical force like we need him to be? I think thats why alot of folks are looking to draft a player that holds alot of promise such as Hawthorne and Cody!

You do know Fetafehi is bigger and more physical then both of those two?

Plus, as a NT, youre not supposed to be physical, just be fat and hold your two gaps. You dont have to go anywhere, there is no rushing, you just fall on a RB if he passes by and try and swat a pass now and then.

Sam_Z
02-01-2005, 08:07 PM
You do know Fetafehi is bigger and more physical then both of those two?

Plus, as a NT, youre not supposed to be physical, just be fat and hold your two gaps. You dont have to go anywhere, there is no rushing, you just fall on a RB if he passes by and try and swat a pass now and then.
Exactly but you still have to have some mind of push up the middle to clog the lanes and retain more blockers, the two guys that I mentioned have that. Super Mario is bigger and very good but these two guys hold alot more promise right now, besides whats wrong with drafting one even its just to rotate with Mario.

PsychoChicken
02-01-2005, 10:19 PM
YES! YES! YES!

You get it!


As for the second part...

Cody would work as a DE/DT, our biggest need if we switched to a 3-4.

Matt Roth will likely be gone by the time we pick in the first round though, let alone sometime in the second. He would fit the DE/OLB mold.

We have oodles of choices with the DE/OLB or DE/DT types in the first two rounds. It makes sense to draft one of each type. We have 3 NTs on our roster (Including Dorsett Davis), someone somewhere started a rumor which is horribly false.

I just watched a replay of the Senior Bowl and read some analysis, so now I know Spears and Roth will both be gone. That probably leaves room for us to draft Cody, but if he is gone too, I'd want to see us trade down into the early second round and grab Justin Tuck as the DE/OLB type and Chris Canty as the DE/DT type. I got to see Tuck play a lot thanks to NBC and he looked like an insane athlete. I think Tuck could be an excellent OLB for a 3-4. I also saw the Virginia Cavaliers play 3 or 4 games, and I know Chris Canty would be a good 3-4 DE since he played in that scheme at Virginia. Of course, this is all pre-combine speculation, but as of now, this would make sense.

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-01-2005, 10:25 PM
I am sure we will get our chance at one of those three DE's but who knows what the combine has in store for us???

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-02-2005, 07:29 AM
I just watched a replay of the Senior Bowl and read some analysis, so now I know Spears and Roth will both be gone. That probably leaves room for us to draft Cody, but if he is gone too, I'd want to see us trade down into the early second round and grab Justin Tuck as the DE/OLB type and Chris Canty as the DE/DT type. I got to see Tuck play a lot thanks to NBC and he looked like an insane athlete. I think Tuck could be an excellent OLB for a 3-4. I also saw the Virginia Cavaliers play 3 or 4 games, and I know Chris Canty would be a good 3-4 DE since he played in that scheme at Virginia. Of course, this is all pre-combine speculation, but as of now, this would make sense.

I think Demarkus Ware at the DE/OLB position makes more sense in round 1 if we decide to go in that direction. And Im still kind of intrigued with drafting Hawthorne and putting him at DE in a 3-4. He'd have to be a round 1 pick.

As for Tuck, the opinions of him vary, but Kiper thinks he's a 2nd day pick (4th round). So, I wouldnt feel comfortable taking him in the first or second.

ttejuco
02-05-2005, 04:31 PM
You know what, Shanny will screw over all the fans and pick someone that we had no clue the Broncos were interested in. Who honestly thought we'd get DJ williams? although that was a good pick, but Darius Watts was quite a reach.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-05-2005, 05:10 PM
You know what, Shanny will screw over all the fans and pick someone that we had no clue the Broncos were interested in. Who honestly thought we'd get DJ williams? although that was a good pick, but Darius Watts was quite a reach.

Don't remind us....

TXBRONC
02-05-2005, 07:17 PM
You know what, Shanny will screw over all the fans and pick someone that we had no clue the Broncos were interested in. Who honestly thought we'd get DJ williams? although that was a good pick, but Darius Watts was quite a reach.

I don't see Watts as being a reach. He needs polishing and to add some weight but he wasn't reach.

rcsodak
02-05-2005, 11:00 PM
You know what, Shanny will screw over all the fans and pick someone that we had no clue the Broncos were interested in. Who honestly thought we'd get DJ williams? although that was a good pick, but Darius Watts was quite a reach.

Why was he a reach?
Because he didn't have Moss' rookie numbers?
Alot of other teams had him on their boards......so who's to say that he would have been available any later?


2004: Watts made strides as Denver’s third receiver during his rookie season, appearing in 16 games (2 starts) and totaling 31 catches for 385 yards (12.4 avg.) with a touchdown while adding five rushes for 33 yards (6.6 avg.). Watts finished the regular season tying for the fifth-best rookie receiving output in Broncos history. He ranked third among AFC rookies in receptions while he also placed second in the conference among rookies in receiving yards.

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-06-2005, 12:54 AM
Actually a lot of people on the board were talking about DJ before we drafted him, he was just overlooked because everyone wanted us to draft S. Jackson. Watts kind of came out of nowhere but he has got skills.

ttejuco
02-06-2005, 01:06 AM
He was very much a reach. He had good physical tools, was kind of lanky, but the biggest negative about him was that is very lazy in terms of training and does not do much to make himself better.



Gil Brandt's Analysis:
I think this is the first guy that has been selected that wasn't in my top 100 guys. But Watts has size, speed and huge hands, and has been an extremely productive receiver at Marshall. He ran very well at his timing day.



SI.com Draft Analyzer

BIO: All-conference selection every season since his sophomore campaign. Suffered with a leg injury as a senior but still posted 74/968/11 after 71/1,030/12 the prior year. Exploded onto the national stage posting 91/1,417/18 as a sophomore in 2001.

POSITIVES: Explosive pass-catcher that breaks games wide open when focused. Quick route runner that gets separation from defenders, adjusts to the oncoming throw and displays good eye-hand coordination. Plays much faster than his 40 time and has the ability to switch it on then run away from opponents down the field. Tracks the deep ball or gets vertical to make the acrobatic reception. Uses the sidelines well and elusive running after the reception. Instinctive wide out that finds the open spot on the field or gets past the yard markers on third down.

NEGATIVES: Continually lets the pass get inside him and cradles it against his body. Does not always come away with the tough grab in traffic. Lazily rounds off his routes at times.

ANALYSIS: Not known as a tough receiver willing to do the extras to make himself a better player, Watts has the underlying skills to be an explosive receiver at the next level should he decide to take his game to the next level.

PROJECTION: Early Fourth Round

Dont get me wrong, he will be good, but he was a bit of a reach in the second round where there was a few WR who couldve been a better selection such as Keary Colbert or Earnest Wilford. Funny thing is, some draft boards had Triandos Luke higher than Darius Watts. Shanny makes some crazy picks.


BIO: Tide's leading receiver the past two seasons totaling 32/432/4 as a senior after 41/482/2 the prior season. Returned kicks as a junior averaging 19.6 yards on 10 returns.

POSITIVES: Athletic and explosive receiver with a penchant for making the big play. Quickly gets off the line, good route runner that displays sharpness in or out of breaks. Comes back to the ball, prepares himself to make the reception and adjusts to the errant pass. Possesses soft hands, runs to the deep pass and easily makes the reception at full speed. Plays to his 40 time.

NEGATIVES: Lacks the strong hands and does not pluck the ball from the air. Has difficulty coming away with the tough grab in traffic.

ANALYSIS: A leader by example known for his great work ethic, Luke has been shooting up draft boards after fine performances at the Senior Bowl and Combine. Takes well to coaching and a tough player that should succeed in a structured offense at the next level.

PROJECTION: Late Third Round

OrangeShadow
02-06-2005, 05:51 AM
Justin Tuck wouldnt be bad though

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-06-2005, 11:17 AM
Who cares where they were predictedto be drafted, Watts is going to be BAD A! I think Shanny knew he was a sleeper but didn't want to miss on him because he thought he could wait another 30 picks.
Do you think Watts is not a good player? Because I think he is a hell of a player and his 'dropped balls' were a little bit of rookie jitters. I really think he can be something special.
And I want to know how these draft analyzers know whether some one does not train well/hard enough they probably just said that because his stats and numbers didn't go up, but I am sure he is busting his butt to get bigger and stronger and better.

ttejuco
02-06-2005, 02:27 PM
Because I think he is a hell of a player and his 'dropped balls' were a little bit of rookie jitters. I really think he can be something special.

Yes, well if he was really a great player, he would get over these so called "rookie jitters". Sure he will be great, but how long will it take? 3 years like Ashley Lelie? I hope not, cause that would be a waste of a 2nd rounder.

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-06-2005, 03:10 PM
its not about the name or what he draft experts say it is about how they produce in the NFL so those other guys you named are the same as Watts to me until they play better or worse.

ttejuco
02-06-2005, 03:40 PM
Hmmm Keary Colbert played pretty damn well in replacement for Steve Smith:

G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
15 15 47 754 16.0 63 5 14 4 31

vicious2500
02-07-2005, 06:50 AM
Hmmm Keary Colbert played pretty damn well in replacement for Steve Smith:

G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
15 15 47 754 16.0 63 5 14 4 31

Your comparing a starter to a third (slot) receiver where can you find the logic in that? Now if you can pull up the stats among the other slot rookies and compare that then you have a valid arguement.

rcsodak
02-07-2005, 10:17 AM
He was very much a reach. He had good physical tools, was kind of lanky, but the biggest negative about him was that is very lazy in terms of training and does not do much to make himself better.
That, though, can be fixed with training.


Dont get me wrong, he will be good, but he was a bit of a reach in the second round where there was a few WR who couldve been a better selection such as Keary Colbert or Earnest Wilford. Funny thing is, some draft boards had Triandos Luke higher than Darius Watts. Shanny makes some crazy picks.
Ok. So Watts was a 'reach'. But when exactly, was Luke picked up? :coffee:
I'd say its a wash, at the worst......

rcsodak
02-07-2005, 10:19 AM
Yes, well if he was really a great player, he would get over these so called "rookie jitters". Sure he will be great, but how long will it take? 3 years like Ashley Lelie? I hope not, cause that would be a waste of a 2nd rounder.

So a 2nd round pick taking 3 yrs to 'mature', is worse than a 1st round pick doing it??????

JRWIZ
02-07-2005, 11:44 AM
Yes, well if he was really a great player, he would get over these so called "rookie jitters". Sure he will be great, but how long will it take? 3 years like Ashley Lelie? I hope not, cause that would be a waste of a 2nd rounder.


Just like asshley was a waste as a #1?

ttejuco
02-07-2005, 01:29 PM
The Broncos taking a wide reciever is pretty much a huge gamble because look at their previous history: Herb Haygood, Kevin Kasper, Chris Cole, Leroy Fields, Chad Plummer, Travis Mcgriff, Marcus Nash... etc. None of those WR's are with the Broncos anymore, most out of football. Hmmm it seems as though the Broncos are only successful with undrafted free agents a la Rod Smith, or a low draft pick traded from San Francisco a la Ed McCaffery.


So a 2nd round pick taking 3 yrs to 'mature', is worse than a 1st round pick doing it??????

Either way its still pretty bad, you obviously want rookies to excel in their production and maturity. You select a 1st rounder because you expect them to be better in terms of talent and maturity compared to the other draft picks you select, that's why its "1st" pick.


Just like asshley was a waste as a #1?

If you asked me in the last few years id say yes, but this year he really came along as a deep threat, but needs to be more than that if he expects to take over Rod Smith.


Ok. So Watts was a 'reach'. But when exactly, was Luke picked up?
I'd say its a wash, at the worst......

He was picked in the 6th round.


Your comparing a starter to a third (slot) receiver where can you find the logic in that? Now if you can pull up the stats among the other slot rookies and compare that then you have a valid arguement.

The Broncos actually started several times in a 3WR set with Watts. If he did drop so many balls maybe Plummer would throw it to him more, for a sure handed target. That drop against the Raiders was a killer.

TXBRONC
02-07-2005, 05:29 PM
That, though, can be fixed with training.


Ok. So Watts was a 'reach'. But when exactly, was Luke picked up? :coffee:
I'd say its a wash, at the worst......

I don't know about you RC but I don't see Watts as reach, but rather a receiver that needs grooming (and I'm not talking hygenically) and to and some weight.

OhNoKoolAid
02-08-2005, 05:07 PM
I also saw the Virginia Cavaliers play 3 or 4 games, and I know Chris Canty would be a good 3-4 DE since he played in that scheme at Virginia. Of course, this is all pre-combine speculation, but as of now, this would make sense.

You must have gone to all of Canty's games then because he only played four. Joking aside, Canty was a monster of a 3-4 end and will now be a serious sleeper in round two. He has Richard Seymour size potential. I too like Justin Tuck, but Shawne Merriman out of Maryland would be a dream selection in the first round. He could be a Joey Porter, Terrell Suggs type impact player from the 3-4 rush end/linebacker spot. As for the NT scenario, Mario would work fine, and a guy like Ronald Fields from Miss. St. could be taken in the fourth with a compensation pick, or Luis Castillo in the 2nd if we can get good value for Droughns.

Good original post by the way, I agree wholeheartedly.