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DPg2003
02-12-2005, 01:19 PM
I know that it is tradition for Mike Shanahan to draft at least one RB every year, but I don't think he'll even be thinking about a RB until Round 5 at least. This team has much more pressing needs than RB. Why then would we use our Round 3 or Round 4 pick on a RB?

We have Tatum Bell, whom we just drafted, and whom I think all Bronco fans think is the RB of the future here in Denver. The only things that Bell needs to work on is his knowledge of the system, his pass catching abilities, and adding bulk to fend off those nagging type of injuries he faced this past season.

We have Mike Anderson, who when healthy, can be a power runner, but has more agility than Reuben Droughns.

We have Q Griffin who can be a change of pace scat back type of player. Then we have Cecil Sapp who showed flashes in backup duties.

I also believe that our FB position is taken of as well, so why then would we waste a Day 1 pick on a RB????

EddyMac87
02-12-2005, 01:40 PM
agreed, i dont know why everyone here wants him...i doubt we take a RB at all...

Dream
02-12-2005, 01:49 PM
Quentin Griffin sucks, had a pretty big injury and can't run against a decent defense.

Mike Anderson is old balls.

Droughns will be traded.

That's your answer.

TXBRONC
02-12-2005, 02:07 PM
I know that it is tradition for Mike Shanahan to draft at least one RB every year, but I don't think he'll even be thinking about a RB until Round 5 at least. This team has much more pressing needs than RB. Why then would we use our Round 3 or Round 4 pick on a RB?

We have Tatum Bell, whom we just drafted, and whom I think all Bronco fans think is the RB of the future here in Denver. The only things that Bell needs to work on is his knowledge of the system, his pass catching abilities, and adding bulk to fend off those nagging type of injuries he faced this past season.

We have Mike Anderson, who when healthy, can be a power runner, but has more agility than Reuben Droughns.

We have Q Griffin who can be a change of pace scat back type of player. Then we have Cecil Sapp who showed flashes in backup duties.

I also believe that our FB position is taken of as well, so why then would we waste a Day 1 pick on a RB????

Good post. I expect Shanahan to draft another runningback but not until the second day and imo I think it more in likely in last two rounds (6th and 7th). Any mock draft that has us taking a runningback that high in the draft just doesn't have clue about the Broncos. I think the needs are so clear they just can't be overlooked. Defense first. However, if for some reason a receiver like Mike Williams should fall that far in the first round I think Shanahan would take. I say that because I did read in The Sporting News that Shanahan wouldn't mind having another playmaking receiver. Other than that I see Shanahan trying to address the defensive side of the ball with more playmakers.

DPg2003
02-12-2005, 02:14 PM
Quentin Griffin sucks, had a pretty big injury and can't run against a decent defense.

Mike Anderson is old balls.

Droughns will be traded.

That's your answer.

Not good enough man. Tatum Bell will become a top tier HB this season, and will be the man here for years to come. Why draft a player on Day 1 to be nothing more than his back-up?? We wouldn't have drafted Bell if Portis were still here, so why would we draft a HB on Day 1 with Bell here???

Even if (God forbid) Bell were to get injured this season we would still be fine at HB. Mike Anderson has at least a year left. Q Griffin will come back and be what he should have been last season, a back-up. I don't think that Droughns will find a taker(at the Broncos asking price) and he will be back. We already have RB's on the roster that can be serviceable back-ups to T Bell.

Why do you insist that we should waste a Day 1 draft pick on a position that is way down on the list of priorities.

DPg2003
02-12-2005, 02:21 PM
Good post. I expect Shanahan to draft another runningback but not until the second day and imo I think it more in likely in last two rounds (6th and 7th). Any mock draft that has us taking a runningback that high in the draft just doesn't have clue about the Broncos. I think the needs are so clear they just can't be overlooked. Defense first. However, if for some reason a receiver like Mike Williams should fall that far in the first round I think Shanahan would take. I say that because I did read in The Sporting News that Shanahan wouldn't mind having another playmaking receiver. Other than that I see Shanahan trying to address the defensive side of the ball with more playmakers.

Thank you TXBRONC.

I definitely agree that if Shanahan can get his hands on a top WR, or maybe even an O-Lineman, by trading up he will, but that's the only way I see him going after O in the First Round. I see him going after an impact pass rusher in Round 1 either by trading up or hoping one falls to #25. After that I see us continuing to focus on D, and like you said, getting more impact players to complement to immense talent we already have on this roster. Also I see us focusing on the O-Line, which is aging and expensive, and probably is about to play it's last season together. IF we do take a RB I agree that won't be until late in the draft.

Dream
02-12-2005, 02:31 PM
Not good enough man. Tatum Bell will become a top tier HB this season, and will be the man here for years to come. Why draft a player on Day 1 to be nothing more than his back-up?? We wouldn't have drafted Bell if Portis were still here, so why would we draft a HB on Day 1 with Bell here???

Even if (God forbid) Bell were to get injured this season we would still be fine at HB. Mike Anderson has at least a year left. Q Griffin will come back and be what he should have been last season, a back-up. I don't think that Droughns will find a taker(at the Broncos asking price) and he will be back. We already have RB's on the roster that can be serviceable back-ups to T Bell.

Why do you insist that we should waste a Day 1 draft pick on a position that is way down on the list of priorities.

Marion Barber the III wouldn't be a waste of a day one pick.

The fact is that our running back group really isn't as strong as most think it is. If Tatum Bell can keep healthy, I'll be thrilled -- but he wasn't healthy this past year and durability could be a course for concern. I'm high on him too; but I'm not high on Mike Anderson and Quentin Griffin. They both suffered pretty big injuries that will definately have an impact on their play. If Anderson were to come back; he'd probably battle it out at the fullback position; I'm sure he doesn't have what it takes to be an effective running back anymore. Quentin Griffin did absolutely nothing after the Kansas City and Indianapolis games of his career; he doesn't have what it takes to be a service load nor does he have what it takes to be an adequate back up. Quentin Griffin would likely be a return man if he's still on our roster next year.

Cecil Sapp, etc. They've seen limited action, and I'm not sure if you can really call them adequate as well.

Reuben Droughns won't settle for being a back-up on our squad; that's why he's demanding the extra money. That's quite indicative that he doesn't want to play here anymore. He'll be traded to either move up in a round or gain a pick; it's that simple.

Yeah, Tatum Bell is our future and I'm high on him; he's our future until he gets injured again. Mike Anderson isn't a servicable back-up, Quentin Griffin isn't a servicable back up. What we have here is my opinion versus yours and it's quite obvious on whose I value more.

We had a tough time with injuries last year and who says it can't happen again?

Who are you to say what's not on our list of priorities? Do you know for sure?

I don't see any other big need besides our offensive and defensive lines.

I believe we get a third rounder in compensation for Gold and Berry and we'll likely get a third in a trade with Droughns.

I have us taking an Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in rounds #1 and #2.

I have us taking Barber with our third rounder because he's probably still the best player on the board and adds depth to our running back corps that could use the push. You already know how I feel about the others. I think we could use Barber because of the depth he adds; he's great at receiving and rushing.

What would you insist we use a "third" rounder on?

I have Barber and Perkins (CB) -- check my draft thread to see what I'm all about.

No hard feelings here; but Marion Barber isn't a waste of a pick. Have you ever seen him play?

_________________________________

TX, you say how anyone who has us drafting a running back that high, obviously doesn't know anything about Broncos football?

Hell, Shanahan takes a back every year; whether it be Portis (2nd) or Bell (2nd) -- it doesn't really matter which round he takes one in, it's just that he always does. The fact is Barber will probably be the BPA by position if we were to somehow get into the third round.

I think the the Offensive Line and Defensive Line are our two highest priorities; which I have us addressing with our first and second picks.

TXBRONC
02-12-2005, 02:53 PM
Marion Barber the III wouldn't be a waste of a day one pick.

The fact is that our running back group really isn't as strong as most think it is. If Tatum Bell can keep healthy, I'll be thrilled -- but he wasn't healthy this past year and durability could be a course for concern. I'm high on him too; but I'm not high on Mike Anderson and Quentin Griffin. They both suffered pretty big injuries that will definately have an impact on their play. If Anderson were to come back; he'd probably battle it out at the fullback position; I'm sure he doesn't have what it takes to be an effective running back anymore. Quentin Griffin did absolutely nothing after the Kansas City and Indianapolis games of his career; he doesn't have what it takes to be a service load nor does he have what it takes to be an adequate back up. Quentin Griffin would likely be a return man if he's still on our roster next year.

Cecil Sapp, etc. They've seen limited action, and I'm not sure if you can really call them adequate as well.

Reuben Droughns won't settle for being a back-up on our squad; that's why he's demanding the extra money. That's quite indicative that he doesn't want to play here anymore. He'll be traded to either move up in a round or gain a pick; it's that simple.

Yeah, Tatum Bell is our future and I'm high on him; he's our future until he gets injured again. Mike Anderson isn't a servicable back-up, Quentin Griffin isn't a servicable back up. What we have here is my opinion versus yours and it's quite obvious on whose I value more.

We had a tough time with injuries last year and who says it can't happen again?

Who are you to say what's not on our list of priorities? Do you know for sure?

I don't see any other big need besides our offensive and defensive lines.

I believe we get a third rounder in compensation for Gold and Berry and we'll likely get a third in a trade with Droughns.

I have us taking an Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in rounds #1 and #2.

I have us taking Barber with our third rounder because he's probably still the best player on the board and adds depth to our running back corps that could use the push. You already know how I feel about the others. I think we could use Barber because of the depth he adds; he's great at receiving and rushing.

What would you insist we use a "third" rounder on?

I have Barber and Perkins (CB) -- check my draft thread to see what I'm all about.

No hard feelings here; but Marion Barber isn't a waste of a pick. Have you ever seen him play?

_________________________________

TX, you say how anyone who has us drafting a running back that high, obviously doesn't know anything about Broncos football?

Hell, Shanahan takes a back every year; whether it be Portis (2nd) or Bell (2nd) -- it doesn't really matter which round he takes one in, it's just that he always does. The fact is Barber will probably be the BPA by position if we were to somehow get into the third round.

I think the the Offensive Line and Defensive Line are our two highest priorities; which I have us addressing with our first and second picks.

Well Broncology I apologize for offending you. I seen Barber play but Mike's drafting history is doesn't seem indicate that he would take a back at number one. I believe he will take runningback but it be latter in the draft. I think I read that Barber could go in the first and will probably be gone by the second. Also right now we don't have 3rd round it was taken away because of the cap violations. If I remember right its still up in the air if were going to get compensation for Berry.

Honestly, if Anderson and Griffin come back and can remain healthy our runningback situation is going to be in good shape. I'm not sure why alot people think Anderson is going to play fullback again. I haven't read anything that in anyway gives that indication. What he'll be if he doen't get injuried again is runningback. I not sure that Anderson and Griffin are not servicable. If fact think if we have both of them back that gives us quality depth at the runningback position.

Now if get our third round pick back and Barber is available then yeah I'm all for it. I watched this guy play several time and imo he would fit in our system. But I have a hunch he'll be long gone before we get a chance to find out. Barber would be a waste imo if we drafted him in the first or second round considering our pressing needs on defense.

DPg2003
02-12-2005, 03:05 PM
Marion Barber the III wouldn't be a waste of a day one pick.

The fact is that our running back group really isn't as strong as most think it is. If Tatum Bell can keep healthy, I'll be thrilled -- but he wasn't healthy this past year and durability could be a course for concern. I'm high on him too; but I'm not high on Mike Anderson and Quentin Griffin. They both suffered pretty big injuries that will definately have an impact on their play. If Anderson were to come back; he'd probably battle it out at the fullback position; I'm sure he doesn't have what it takes to be an effective running back anymore. Quentin Griffin did absolutely nothing after the Kansas City and Indianapolis games of his career; he doesn't have what it takes to be a service load nor does he have what it takes to be an adequate back up. Quentin Griffin would likely be a return man if he's still on our roster next year.

Cecil Sapp, etc. They've seen limited action, and I'm not sure if you can really call them adequate as well.

Reuben Droughns won't settle for being a back-up on our squad; that's why he's demanding the extra money. That's quite indicative that he doesn't want to play here anymore. He'll be traded to either move up in a round or gain a pick; it's that simple.

Yeah, Tatum Bell is our future and I'm high on him; he's our future until he gets injured again. Mike Anderson isn't a servicable back-up, Quentin Griffin isn't a servicable back up. What we have here is my opinion versus yours and it's quite obvious on whose I value more.

We had a tough time with injuries last year and who says it can't happen again?

Who are you to say what's not on our list of priorities? Do you know for sure?

I don't see any other big need besides our offensive and defensive lines.

I believe we get a third rounder in compensation for Gold and Berry and we'll likely get a third in a trade with Droughns.

I have us taking an Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in rounds #1 and #2.

I have us taking Barber with our third rounder because he's probably still the best player on the board and adds depth to our running back corps that could use the push. You already know how I feel about the others. I think we could use Barber because of the depth he adds; he's great at receiving and rushing.

What would you insist we use a "third" rounder on?

I have Barber and Perkins (CB) -- check my draft thread to see what I'm all about.

No hard feelings here; but Marion Barber isn't a waste of a pick. Have you ever seen him play?

I have family in Memphis, and my cousin use to play B-Ball on the Tigers with Penny. I hear about Barber all the time and yes I have seen him play. I never said he wasn't a good back and I never said he personally was a waste of a 3rd Round pick, just a waste for the Broncos. I think he is a very good back and I would be surprised if he didn't go in at least Round 2 or early Round 3.

Bell will not have those nagging injury problems that he faced this year. We can play the what if game all day, but the simple fact is that he just needs to hit the weights. He has never had injury problems before, and it wasn't like he had major injuries. He is without question our RB of the future. Shanahan knows the danger of being unprepared for injuries and I think he alone knows when he will take a HB. My point is that Shanahan will revert back to trying to get a surprise in later Rounds like he did with TD, Gary, Anderson, Griffin. The only reason he drafted Portis in Round 2 was because he needed a HB for the future. The only reason he drafted T Bell in Round 2 was because he needed a HB for the future. I don't see him going that high for awhile seeing as how he now has his HB.

If Droughns is traded to move up(which I love to see) or just for an extra pick and if we get 3rd Round compensation for Gold and Berry, that would obviously give us a plethora of picks that could change my opinion on when we should draft a HB, but I'll save that until we find out.

I absolutely see your point about our back-ups being a question due to injuries, age, or inexperience depending on the player. But my point is that they are back-ups. They will be able to do their jobs, step up when asked, and in case of injury, do what Bronco backs always do and produce. I'm not saying that we won't take a HB at all, I stated earlier that the Broncos always take a RB and I don't see that changing.

To answer your question, it is still early and we haven't went through the FA thing yet, but for right now I say we need to focus on both the O-Line and D-Line, the lack of speed at the S position(depending on whether or not Jeremy LeSueur is moved to S), the lack of a big physical WR that can get position on critical downs and down on the goal line. Our lack of depth at CB(depending on whether one the rookies from last year steps up. It is time we just admit that Middlebrooks is not a CB and either try him at S or let him go.) Maybe even another back-up LB(I don't know what's going on with Sykes or Pierce, and I think that we need another playmaking LB to complement AW and D.J.) Also I wouldn't mind seeing us take Adrian McPherson in the mid rounds. I think all he needs is a little guidance and I think him losing everything and having to go to the AFL made him realize that playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right.

I have no hard feelings, in fact I appreciate good thought provoking discussions on all sports. But your question of who am I to say what our priorities is really non-valid in a forum. We all have opinions, and while I am not in the front office making decisions, I never claimed to be. I am just a college student relaxing and talking Broncos football.

Dream
02-12-2005, 03:40 PM
Well Broncology I apologize for offending you. I seen Barber play but Mike's drafting history is doesn't seem indicate that he would take a back at number one.

I never said we were going to use our first rounder on Barber; I said third rounder.

Barber is first round material; but he'll go in the second or third.


I have family in Memphis, and my cousin use to play B-Ball on the Tigers with Penny.

I'm not sure what Memphis has to do with Barber; he's from Minneapolis and grew up in Minnesota. He's played for the Gophers for three years. Maybe you're confusing him with someone else?

Other than that; I agree with what both of you have to say.

That's why I have us choosing Barber in round three because I addressed our most pertinent of needs with our first two; and I shored up our defense with the other picks in the draft. (I'm refering to your thoughts on drafting Barber if we get compensation and trade Droughns to move up.)

Keep on posting dude, I love reading what you have to say.

TXBRONC
02-12-2005, 03:54 PM
I never said we were going to use our first rounder on Barber; I said third rounder.

Barber is first round material; but he'll go in the second or third.



I'm not sure what Memphis has to do with Barber; he's from Minneapolis and grew up in Minnesota. He's played for the Gophers for three years. Maybe you're confusing him with someone else?

Other than that; I agree with what both of you have to say.

That's why I have us choosing Barber in round three because I addressed our most pertinent of needs with our first two; and I shored up our defense with the other picks in the draft. (I'm refering to your thoughts on drafting Barber if we get compensation and trade Droughns to move up.)

Keep on posting dude, I love reading what you have to say.

I think there is a better than a 50/50 chance that he'll be gone by the second round. There are several teams in need of runningback so I just seriously doubt he makes it that far. As I said if Denver has taken care of the more pressing needs first and Barber is available then he would be great pick up.

Dream
02-12-2005, 04:15 PM
I think there is a better than a 50/50 chance that he'll be gone by the second round. There are several teams in need of runningback so I just seriously doubt he makes it that far. As I said if Denver has taken care of the more pressing needs first and Barber is available then he would be great pick up.

Barber is good, but in no way can he be a first rounder.

Williams, Benson, Brown, Fason and Morency will probably go before him.

DPg2003
02-12-2005, 05:53 PM
I never said we were going to use our first rounder on Barber; I said third rounder.

Barber is first round material; but he'll go in the second or third.



I'm not sure what Memphis has to do with Barber; he's from Minneapolis and grew up in Minnesota. He's played for the Gophers for three years. Maybe you're confusing him with someone else?

Other than that; I agree with what both of you have to say.

That's why I have us choosing Barber in round three because I addressed our most pertinent of needs with our first two; and I shored up our defense with the other picks in the draft. (I'm refering to your thoughts on drafting Barber if we get compensation and trade Droughns to move up.)

Keep on posting dude, I love reading what you have to say.

Thanks Broncology. I respect the way you make valid points and back them up instead of just posting garbage.

Man, you know who I was thinking of, DeAngelo Williams. My fault, a little mental lapse I guess. But I know about Barber too. I liked the way Minnesota ran the ball and I think he has Round 2 talent just the same.

Like I said I see where you're coming from, but I just don't see Shanahan taking a RB that early. But you never know with him, and if he gets his hands on some extra picks, anything is possible.

TXBRONC
02-12-2005, 05:59 PM
Barber is good, but in no way can he be a first rounder.

Williams, Benson, Brown, Fason and Morency will probably go before him.

Your top three yes, Fason maybe, but I think Barber will go before Morency. Barber is more complete back than Morency.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-12-2005, 07:00 PM
Morency is likely a late first round pick. He is solidifed as the 4th best back behind the big 3. Barber is not even close in the eyes of the scouts, which is what matters. Barber is a 3rd-4th round pick and he's needs a good combine to solidify that status.

TXBRONC
02-12-2005, 07:26 PM
Morency is likely a late first round pick. He is solidifed as the 4th best back behind the big 3. Barber is not even close in the eyes of the scouts, which is what matters. Barber is a 3rd-4th round pick and he's needs a good combine to solidify that status.

I've looked at couple of mock drafts and some analysis on him I don't think by any stretch he has solidified anything just yet.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-12-2005, 08:32 PM
I've looked at couple of mock drafts and some analysis on him I don't think by any stretch he has solidified anything just yet.

Fair enough, lets wait and see. I say he has solidified, already, a spot late in the first round as the 4th RB off the board.

You say nope.

Time shall tell, but I've got my "I told you so" all set to be whipped out for after the draft. :heh:

rcsodak
02-12-2005, 09:24 PM
Quentin Griffin sucks, had a pretty big injury and can't run against a decent defense.

Mike Anderson is old balls.

Droughns will be traded.

That's your answer.

Typical Q-hating answer.
Those first few games, our O line was trying to 'gel' with each other, with Lepsis changing ends and Foster starting for the first time.
You don't just learn the complicated zone blocking in a couple of months of practice.

And Droughns didn't exactly eat up those same Chargers when he got the chance later in the season.

Dream
02-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Typical Q-hating answer.
Those first few games, our O line was trying to 'gel' with each other, with Lepsis changing ends and Foster starting for the first time.
You don't just learn the complicated zone blocking in a couple of months of practice.

And Droughns didn't exactly eat up those same Chargers when he got the chance later in the season.

It's not that I "hate" Griffin; he sucks anyways. He doesn't have what it takes to be a decent player in the NFL; it's that simple. If he was, Mike wouldn't have went and drafted Tatum Bell. He's not the long term solution for anything nor is he a decent back up. Make excuses all you want; if the line was "gellin" with eachother; why did he have such success the first game against Kansas City? That's right; because they suck at defending against the run. The two biggest games of his career came against statistically two of the worst defensive units year in and year out.

Whooptee do.

You're just a Sooner fan and you don't like it when people talk smack about one of your alumni; I could care less. I can admit that there are plenty of Michigan players who busted balls in college but suck in the pros. I don't see why you let your homer opinion on being a Sooner's fan get in the way of knowing that Quentin Griffin bites the big one.

When did I say anything about Droughns? Would you like my opinion on him?

He sucks; he's a product of the system. He sucked and Detroit and he still sucks now; he's a product of the system. I laugh at the fool who even trades higher than a fourth rounder for him; I really do. Win for us, lose for them. You could put a walking toaster in the backfield and it'd probably rush for over a thousand yards; heck walking toaster = Olandis Gary. So technically it has been done.

What makes Quentin Griffin a good running back? The fact he can run against crappy defensive units? I don't think so. He adds depth and could be a decent kick returner if he comes back healthy to 100% after the injury.

I have a friend (from Norman) whose dad teaches at OU; he regularly gets to visit the weight room and has followed Quentin throughout his college career and he even thinks he sucks. I'm pretty sure I'd take an opinion from someone who actually knows the players and has seen them play first hand week in and week out over yours.

No hard feelings RC; you know Quentin sucks and so do I. :cheers:

Thanks for the reply though!

RebelSyxx
02-13-2005, 11:26 AM
I just hate it when people say, "this player sucks, that player sucks" No football player in the NFL sucks, it just different levels of excellence. Quentin Griffin by no means sucks. HE may not be the Barry Sanders some thought we had, and he may not be a top 10 rb in the league, but he does not suck. Quentin will come back, how good I do not know, but he will have some good football left in him for the Broncos, I can guarantee you that.

As far as why we need marion barber, we do not need him, I believe I posted the original subject of "Our next runningback steal" and brought that to everyones attention. I think he is a stud RB and would be a great fit for Denver, he can do it all at the running back position and because he declared early, I think he is tremendously undervalued. The only negative the have on this guy was that he was injured 3 years ago and he split carries with someone else......but he stil managed a 1000 yds. This guy in a Broncos uniform would surpass Clinton Portis, Droughns, Anderson, Gary on any day. He can do similar things TD did. The guy has it all and would be a great asset to this team. If by chance he falls on the Draft Charts, without a doubt do I think Shanny would snatch him up.