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db32
03-01-2005, 01:14 PM
By two weeks ago, I had planned to launch a site and do evaluations on my own. I've been doing them since '98. I've been privelaged enough to have conversations with individuals like Scott Write (NFL Draft Countdown), Russ Lande (B.L.E.S.T.O. rep.-Cleve.) and even agreed to disagree with Gary Horton (NFL War Room). I can't find a host that will offer enough space without gouging. So, to pacify the itch, I'm willing to offer what information I have to you. If your intersted, just give a name and what type of write-up you want-block write up, or an abbreviated one. The block write-up is written with Arkose, so that'll have to be mailed to you. I'll attach it with a PM.

bornbroncofan
03-01-2005, 01:22 PM
I would like alittle more info on this Gerard Warren guy.

db32
03-01-2005, 01:43 PM
I would like alittle more info on this Gerard Warren guy.

Gerrard Warren's an elite athlete for his position. Outstanding physically. Everything from his C.O.D. (change of direction) to his first step. Tremendous violence in his movements as well. Uses his hands very well. What he does well, he does very well. What he needs work on, needs a lot of work on. His tech. is poor. Doesn't extend his arms and fit the blocker well at all. Thusly, he has a devil of a time getting off blocks. When he gets blocked, he really doesn't do enough to shed. It almost seems as if he quits competing. He's got the ability to win with his initial move, but if doesn't, he'll get hung up-most of the time. His physique is almost ideal-good hieght, good bulk and well developed physically. There are very few like him, maybe 5 guys who play his position are his athletic equal, but he needs work. During his time in Cleveland, he played in a two-gap defense, but that's not his game. He wants to whip his man at the L.O.S. (line of scrimmage) and play through the backfield. He wasn't allowed to do that in Cleveland. That may have been part of it.

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 01:51 PM
Gerrard Warren's an elite athlete for his position. Outstanding physically. Everything from his C.O.D. (change of direction) to his first step. Tremendous violence in his movements as well. Uses his hands very well. What he does well, he does very well. What he needs work on, needs a lot of work on. His tech. is poor. Doesn't extend his arms and fit the blocker well at all. Thusly, he has a devil of a time getting off blocks. When he gets blocked, he really doesn't do enough to shed. It almost seems as if he quits competing. He's got the ability to win with his initial move, but if doesn't, he'll get hung up-most of the time. His physique is almost ideal-good hieght, good bulk and well developed physically. There are very few like him, maybe 5 guys who play his position are his athletic equal, but he needs work. During his time in Cleveland, he played in a two-gap defense, but that's not his game. He wants to whip his man at the L.O.S. (line of scrimmage) and play through the backfield. He wasn't allowed to do that in Cleveland. That may have been part of it.

So in saying that, which D is he best suited for??

Also I've heard that he was starting to improve his technique working with Patterson and Patterson really wanted the Broncos to bring him in.

db32
03-01-2005, 02:08 PM
So in saying that, which D is best suited for??

An over/under one-gap defense. An aggressive 4-3. Think TB, Indy, Philly. A lot of teams still play with a measure of depth control-where the first move is into the blocker. In a one-gap defense, the first move is into gap. That's puts the onus on the offense to block him-as opposed to controlling blockers by playing into them and having to shed to get into the backfield in a two-gap defense. That kills the pass rush-especially on early downs.



Also I've heard that he was starting to improve his technique working with Patterson and Patterson really wanted the Broncos to bring him in.

I hope that's true. If he handles himself better when engaged, he could be the cats meow.

Peerless
03-01-2005, 02:17 PM
Gerrard Warren's an elite athlete for his position. Outstanding physically. Everything from his C.O.D. (change of direction) to his first step. Tremendous violence in his movements as well. Uses his hands very well. What he does well, he does very well. What he needs work on, needs a lot of work on. His tech. is poor. Doesn't extend his arms and fit the blocker well at all. Thusly, he has a devil of a time getting off blocks. When he gets blocked, he really doesn't do enough to shed. It almost seems as if he quits competing. He's got the ability to win with his initial move, but if doesn't, he'll get hung up-most of the time. His physique is almost ideal-good hieght, good bulk and well developed physically. There are very few like him, maybe 5 guys who play his position are his athletic equal, but he needs work. During his time in Cleveland, he played in a two-gap defense, but that's not his game. He wants to whip his man at the L.O.S. (line of scrimmage) and play through the backfield. He wasn't allowed to do that in Cleveland. That may have been part of it.

Would you say he's good? Like i want to know if he's a run stopper, a huge hitter/sacker..

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 02:19 PM
An over/under one-gap defense. An aggressive 4-3. Think TB, Indy, Philly.

Interesting. Is it possible that he could play some DE in a 3-4??

Also do you think Pope or E. Johnson would be a good compliment DT's next to Warren in a 4-3???




I hope that's true. If he handles himself better when engaged, he could be the cats meow.

I'm not going to say anything on here that I'll be quoted on later, but I'll just say I think that getting Warren is a very good move. He'll probably only be here for a year though.

db32
03-01-2005, 02:32 PM
Interesting. Is it possible that he could play some DE in a 3-4??

I think he could exell. I'll state that even more strongly-I believe he will. Only as long as the hand cuffs are taken off. If he's asked to play into a blocker, he'll be the same player he was in Cleveland.


Also do you think Pope or E. Johnson would be a good compliment DT's next to Warren in a 4-3???

If Denver plays an over/under 4-3 next year, I'd be pleased to have Ellis Johnson at any tackle position, be it a 3-tech or nose. His ability to shed, hand use, technique and tenacity should've had him on the field a lot more than he was. But I'm to far separated to know of any injuries or what scenarios could've kept him off it. In a 3-4, Johnson could excell as easily as Warren. Both are ideally suited for it. 3-4 ends play a variety of techniques, that's the big issue. Can they flatten out if lined up here? Can they compete playing lower number techniques? The answer with both Johnson and Warren is the same-a profound yes.



I'm not going to say anything on here that I'll be quoted on later, but I'll just say I think that getting Warren is a very good move. He'll probably only be here for a year though.

Don't be afraid, you probably know more about the potential of his acquisition than I do. I'm not sure what Denver's intentions are next year-shematically speaking. If Warren is acquired, I hope they don't try to get conservative in their approach. He plays best when allowed to get after it.

db32
03-01-2005, 02:50 PM
Would you say he's good? Like i want to know if he's a run stopper, a huge hitter/sacker..

He's best playing into the backfield. He's a sack guy. His approach to the position is very John Randle, Warren Sapp, Kevin Williams like. Playing into a blocker is not his forte. He wants to whip him, play by him. That correlates to playing the run to. If a guy does exceptionally well playing into a gap, the guard can't get out of his stance well enough to impede him. Take Kevin Williams. He generally lines up in the weakside B gap (a 3 or 4i technique), the gap between the guard and tackle on the weakside. He'll get out his stance so quickly and get so far upfield that the guard can't step laterally and impede him fast enough. So he'll get double teamed and the guard will step hard laterally at the snap while the center steps toward him. If Williams can deep enough on a run play, the center and guard can't scoop, leaving a defender unaccounted for. A defensive lineman doesn't have to play into a blocker to make an impact in the run game, but he does have to be very athletic. Warren is just that. He'll make an impact in both aspects, but he'll do it with his athleticism-not by just being a bullying a blocker.

How an offense usually counteracts to this type of athlete is something announcers don't talk about. An offense will usually tighten up their splits, leaving less room in a gap making it easier to block an interior lineman. What that also does it leave an end closer to the QB when he lines up. How many times have you seen a d-lineman hit a QB after he gets rid of it? Imagine that d-lineman lining up a few yards closer? That's the impact a strong interior rusher has.

db32
03-01-2005, 02:58 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah.....where does the fat, lazy, underachiever part come in?

Basically, the Broncos just doubled the qualities Dorsett Davis has :coffee:

Finally-You quit duckin' me and I get a piece of you!!!
Tell me the differnce between an over/under one-gap defense and a two-gap defense? The associated principles? Technique from either approach? The difference between a balanced front and how it might be played and a under front and the interaction of the 3-tech. tackle and the Will? How to teach a 2 tech? A four? A zero shade? How to play your indicators form any of them? How to get out of your stance in an even tech? An odd?
That's just a little of it-on the D-lin only!!!!!!!!!!!
I've taught every one of those and then some at an NAIA school at all of 22 years of age. You don't know, you've never known and all you wanna' do is bash people. And you don't know.

P.S.-I'll be back in two hours-will you?

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 03:13 PM
He's best playing into the backfield. He's a sack guy. His approach to the position is very John Randle, Warren Sapp, Kevin Williams like. Playing into a blocker is not his forte. He wants to whip him, play by him. That correlates to playing the run to. If a guy does exceptionally well playing into a gap, the guard can't get out of his stance well enough to impede him. Take Kevin Williams. He generally lines up in the weakside B gap (a 3 or 4i technique), the gap between the guard and tackle on the weakside. He'll get out his stance so quickly and get so far upfield that the guard can't step laterally and impede him fast enough. So he'll get double teamed and the guard will step hard laterally at the snap while the center steps toward him. If Williams can deep enough on a run play, the center and guard can't scoop, leaving a defender unaccounted for. A defensive lineman doesn't have to play into a blocker to make an impact in the run game, but he does have to be very athletic. Warren is just that. He'll make an impact in both aspects, but he'll do it with his athleticism-not by just being a bullying a blocker.

How an offense usually counteracts to this type of athlete is something announcers don't talk about. An offense will usually tighten up their splits, leaving less room in a gap making it easier to block an interior lineman. What that also does it leave an end closer to the QB when he lines up. How many times have you seen a d-lineman hit a QB after he gets rid of it? Imagine that d-lineman lining up a few yards closer? That's the impact a strong interior rusher has.

This sounds great. Hopefully Warren maximizes that potential in a new surrounding.

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 03:22 PM
This sounds great. Hopefully Warren maximizes that potential in a new surrounding.

That is something that NOBODY is considering. Name the last Cleveland player under Butch Davis to expound on his potential? The answer is none. The team festered in underachievement and there never was any motivation to improve, the players just went through the motions and collected a paycheck. The comments about laziness should be taken into consideration that there was no leadership to push these guys or punish them for a lack of effort. I heard on NFL radio this morning that Coyer only takes guys that will play 100% of the time or they won't play at all. In the last few years, Denver has been a haven for cast offs to come in and thrive, and Warren could be the next big one to make that improvement. Denver has a locker room screaming of proffesionalism that will not tolerate underachieving young talent, or they run them out (see Rod Smith and Deltha O'Neal). Just like I think we should take an inexpensive flier on David Terrell, players that come from certain situations or lame duck teams should be given another chance to prove themselves. Plus it is a contract year...

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 03:31 PM
Please, little boy, go back to class.....I've FORGOTTEN more about football, it's techniques, etc,. etc, etc that you will ever know.....go play in traffic... :coffee:

Hey Black, you seem a little testy today. By the way, did you see Boley's 40 times? 4.6 and 4.65, plus speed if you ask me. Still waiting on your guy Burnett's time...

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 03:37 PM
That is something that NOBODY is considering. Name the last Cleveland player under Butch Davis to expound on his potential? The answer is none. The team festered in underachievement and there never was any motivation to improve, the players just went through the motions and collected a paycheck. The comments about laziness should be taken into consideration that there was no leadership to push these guys or punish them for a lack of effort. I heard on NFL radio this morning that Coyer only takes guys that will play 100% of the time or they won't play at all. In the last few years, Denver has been a haven for cast offs to come in and thrive, and Warren could be the next big one to make that improvement. Denver has a locker room screaming of proffesionalism that will not tolerate underachieving young talent, or they run them out (see Rod Smith and Deltha O'Neal). Just like I think we should take an inexpensive flier on David Terrell, players that come from certain situations or lame duck teams should be given another chance to prove themselves. Plus it is a contract year...

Yea, I think Warren was desperate to get out of Cleveland. Nothing against the city, but you tell that team is just dead. I think he will transition here nicely because he likes Coach Patterson and I think he'll help him adjust to this new surrounding. And you

I don't know about Terrell man, I just don't know. Maybe he needs a change of scenery as well, but I'm not sold on his toughness.

Good point about the locker room too. We'll know by training camp if Warren is going to fit in around here.

And on your point about Mr. Smith and underachieving young players, don't you think that he ripped Lelie a new one after last season? I think that he has just about had it with Lelie's non-commitment to off-season training. I think he is going to do all he can to make sure that D-Watts doesn't take 3 or 4 years to develop like Lelie has.

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 03:48 PM
Cool, Boley ran a 4.65....where do you think that will have him Drafted?


BTW, what was his HT/WT?

I don't have Boley's measurements yet, but I still see him as late second, early third. He just has that production you can't ignore.

BTW, did you hear about Brandon Browner's 4.7 40s? He's lucky that Indy is tearing up their astro turf, otherwise his fall would really be painful.

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 03:54 PM
Yea, I think Warren was desperate to get out of Cleveland. Nothing against the city, but you tell that team is just dead. I think he will transition here nicely because he likes Coach Patterson and I think he'll help him adjust to this new surrounding. And you

I don't know about Terrell man, I just don't know. Maybe he needs a change of scenery as well, but I'm not sold on his toughness.

Good point about the locker room too. We'll know by training camp if Warren is going to fit in around here.

And on your point about Mr. Smith and underachieving young players, don't you think that he ripped Lelie a new last after last season? I think that he has just about had it with Lelie's non-commitment to off-season training. I think he is going to do all he can to make sure that D-Watts doesn't take 3 or 4 years to develop like Lelie has.

Well, he may not be able to prevent that. There has been studies about reciever development and all sigs show that the third year is when it clicks. Watts especially, coming from lesser competition could take another season to get fully adjusted.

This brings up something else I want to say. Everyone that isn't a Denver fan says that Denver needs depth at WR, and I agree wholeheartedly. When you pick below fifteen, you cannot just draft for now, you have to look at the next three years. While now, Denver has two capable recievers, when and if Watts clicks, they will still have two, because Smith will be gone. You HAVE TO have three starting quality recievers in the NFL now, and incredible depth to boot. Anyone can just list names, Luke, Jackson, Adams... but those are just names and not quality plus players. Wide reciever should not be our main focus, but I would not be dissapointed if we took a Williamson or a Clayton in the first round. Wouldn't you agree?

RebelSyxx
03-01-2005, 04:21 PM
Tell me what you know about Marion Barber III, im high on him, and I was wondering if he was at the combine?

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 04:45 PM
This brings up something else I want to say. Everyone that isn't a Denver fan says that Denver needs depth at WR, and I agree wholeheartedly. When you pick below fifteen, you cannot just draft for now, you have to look at the next three years. While now, Denver has two capable recievers, when and if Watts clicks, they will still have two, because Smith will be gone. You HAVE TO have three starting quality recievers in the NFL now, and incredible depth to boot. Anyone can just list names, Luke, Jackson, Adams... but those are just names and not quality plus players. Wide reciever should not be our main focus, but I would not be dissapointed if we took a Williamson or a Clayton in the first round. Wouldn't you agree?

I think that we need a big, physical, tough receiver that can get open on key downs and in the red zone and catch the ball. I'm not sure if one of the other receivers on the roster can step up, but I woud be very disappointed if we drafted either one of those guys in the 1st Round if we can get a DE or DT that has the potential to be a real contributor.

If we are able to sign a Rick DeMulling and a Marques Douglas in FA, and there are no solid veteran(not old, but has been in the league for a few years)WR's on the market, then I would love to see us get Vincent Jackson in the 2nd Round with the intention of developing him at WR, or another big receiver in the draft.

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 04:50 PM
Well, he may not be able to prevent that. There has been studies about reciever development and all sigs show that the third year is when it clicks. Watts especially, coming from lesser competition could take another season to get fully adjusted.

If you look at the special receivers that eventually become stars it doesn't take them long to make a ripple in the NFL. Lelie has all the tools to be a great WR, but he has admitted that before last off-season he didn't put in any work during the off-season. When he starts putting in the off the field work that the great ones do he'll start to really show what he can do.

D-Watts has the hunger and willingness to learn that Lelie didn't have his 1st few years in the league. I think the tough season he had will make him work harder than ever and I would surprised if we didn't see dramatic improvement from him this season. I think Rod Smith has set a window for how much longer he wants to play, and I believe that being the team player that he is, he is doing all he can to make sure that the young WR's on this team are ready to take over for him when he ends his remarkable career.

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 05:09 PM
If you look at the special receivers that eventually become stars it doesn't take them long to make a ripple in the NFL. Lelie has all the tools to be a great WR, but he has admitted that before last off-season and didn't put in any work during the off-season. When he starts putting in the off the field work that the great ones do he'll start to really show what he can do.

D-Watts has the hunger and willingness to learn that Lelie didn't have his 1st few years in the league. I think the tough season he had will make him work harder than ever and I would surprised if we didn't see dramatic improvement from him this season. I think Rod Smith has set a window for how much longer he wants to play, and I believe that being the team player that he is, he is doing all he can to make sure that the young WR's on this team are ready to take over for him when he ends his remarkable career.

But that still only makes two good recievers when Smith leaves in a year or two. I think we need any type of young reciever with legit potential or production. Four quality recievers never hurt anyone, and Denver could be well off when Smith retires, or the team fails to resign Lelie.

OhNoKoolAid
03-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Browner was one of those guys that made a late assent into the first roud....i don't know much about him....he was originally supposed to be like Lennyu Walls and be a 6'4" guy, but he did not turn out to be that...

Maybe you got me on Boley. Good work.

Sporting News had Browner in the top fifteen, going to the Chiefs. That forty will take care of that. The draft always makes big changes post combine. By the way, who do you want Baltimore to take this year?

DPg2003
03-01-2005, 05:51 PM
But that still only makes two good recievers when Smith leaves in a year or two. I think we need any type of young reciever with legit potential or production. Four quality recievers never hurt anyone, and Denver could be well off when Smith retires, or the team fails to resign Lelie.

I understand what you're saying. I am hoping and praying that Lelie and D-Watts are somewhere lifting weights, running routes, and catching passes right now. Players like Rod Smith, Chad Johnson, and Hines Ward are so great because they are always working, always trying to get better. D-Watts can make an impact this season if he puts in the work that is needed to elevate your game, and Lelie has been around long enough to know what to do and how to do it. He better take advantage of having such a great example in Rod Smith, because if he continues to refuse to train and work now he will know what true pressure is when he is the #1 option.

I think that we have good young receivers on this team right now that we can develop. I think that B.J. Johnson is going to a very solid receiver, and I think Triandos Luke is going to be a good return man and also be able to strecth the field as a slot receiver. I would only like to see us grab a player like Vincent Jackson in Round 2 or later in this years Draft. I think that a solid veteran receiver will be available as a FA, but if not I believe we will draft a big receiver, just not in the First Round.

To sum it all up, yes I think we need another receiver, I've said that all along. I have stated that I think we need a big physical receiver with good hands that will make the tough catches on key downs and in the red zone. I just don't believe that we should use our First Round pick this year to get one.

db32
03-01-2005, 06:06 PM
Please, little boy, go back to class.....I've FORGOTTEN more about football, it's techniques, etc,. etc, etc that you will ever know.....go play in traffic... :coffee:


That's it???
That's your response???
:D
So much for that.
Now I know why no one's really gotten mad at you.
You're not to be taken seriously.
When I first started posting, Broncology was everywhere. Now I don't see him anywhere where you've already done so. That's the same with so many. You've alienated...I don't know how many. It's nothin' you've done to me, it's the Broncology's of the world I'm willing to speak for. And PRBronco. Guys like that. Not that they can't do it themselves, but I'm willing to fight in their corner too. Leave 'em alone.

TXBRONC
03-01-2005, 06:14 PM
That's it???
That's your response???
:D
So much for that.
Now I know why no one's really gotten mad at you.
You're not to be taken seriously.
When I first started posting, Broncology was everywhere. Now I don't see him anywhere where you've already done so. That's the same with so many. You've alienated...I don't know how many. It's nothin' you've done to me, it's the Broncology's of the world I'm willing to speak for. And PRBronco. Guys like that. Not that they can't do it themselves, but I'm willing to fight in their corner too. Leave 'em alone.

Razor doesn't care, he so blinded by personal hatered of our coach that at every turn he's going to make some kind of rude remark.

BIGD2oo4
03-01-2005, 06:22 PM
...man,....its gettin hot in here! :D







yeah,Raz does have a love-hate relationship w/Mr.Shanahan!
.....deep down he LOVES the Broncos!!!!



....anyway,I got a Buddy thinks the Bears might go after Heath Miller,I like the guy as well,can I get some backround info,perhaps some interested teams?

db32
03-01-2005, 06:39 PM
I'm sorry. I made a bit of a fool of myself on here. I lost my composure. There's some people on this MB that I think highly of and Razor's taken some shots at them. One of which avoids him (I won't say who). It irritates me that I can't share ideas with them in a thread because he's there. Not only that, but he's said some hurtful things and seriously questioned their credibility. Embarrassed them. I won't stand for that. I'm sorry if anyone feels uncomfortable. That was personal and a long time comin'. I wanted to defend some guys whom I'm unfraid to call freinds on here.

Dream
03-01-2005, 07:08 PM
Oh, BS......the only ones that ever caught my rath brought it on themselves....

from Broncology on....he insulted my work, and when I called him on it, he choked....


Respect is given where it's earned, period....and those that fire a shot at me, better know it's coming back with both barrels....

But it is NEVER a first shot...some people that read here don't care about the in's and out's of the Bronco's in a technical sense...they just are here to get a read on what other Bronco fans are thinking...

I challenge any of you to show anything I have EVER posted that was an insult to anyone that was not preceded with an insult to me....that post does not exist.

Actually, I called you on your poor mock draft; and I still stick to the assesment that it's a poor mock draft; most are until the after the combine anyways. So you shouldn't feel too bad. There is so much that can change from the combine; take Young from BYU; probably a really late round pick and after his great performance at the combine; his stock probably went into the first day of the draft. There are a lot of guys who've stunk it up and are probably going to fall on draft day.

I told you why I thought it was bad; but you rebuked it anyways. (Whether what you had to say actually have relevancy or not; I do not know)

I'm not the one who choked; you're the one who still hasn't updated us on where you stand in our little wager? Did you even join the contest? What exactly did you call me on? The fact that you had the Lions taking a receiver with their first overall pick, regardless of the fact that they've used two top tens in a row to shore up their WR corps and the fact that the Man of the Lions himself said that he has other issues? How about Crumpler in FA -- did that actually happen?

How about Wright, he's not even in the draft this year.

How about Henry going in the first round, I think not.

If you want to have yourself a laugh and can't remember how poor your draft was:

http://216.58.161.131/forums/showthread.php?t=26339&highlight=mock+matters

There it is.

If you actually have a mock draft worth criticism; (which I'm sure you'll man up to because afterall; you do think you can beat me in the competition, right?) post it up here; I'd be more than willing to read it. Read it as long as there isn't any "crooked" information posted along with it. Make your picks in-depth and actually explain why instead of using a few words to sum up your pick.

Perhaps you could take a lesson from Scott Wright: www.nfldraftcountdown.com -- it'll suit you well.

The one thing you did was get personal; me telling you that your mock draft is poor isn't a "fire" at you -- it's criticism; something you can't take well.

Ever since I've been here all you do is demean and belittle people. For someone who is supposed to be a grown man; you really don't act like it. It's like you get a kick out of hurting others. You told DB to go play in the street for Cripes sake; how much worse can you be? Why you haven't been removed completely is beyond me; but I'm sick of your antics and I'm sick of the way you treat people on this board. If you want to get personal, I'd be more than happy to invite you up here and we'll talk football anytime you'd like -- I'll even grill for you.

But I'm not going to sit back and watch you pick apart people on a personal level because they caught your bluffs on football; I just won't.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-01-2005, 09:27 PM
Please, little boy, go back to class.....I've FORGOTTEN more about football, it's techniques, etc,. etc, etc that you will ever know.....go play in traffic... :coffee:

Sounds like a cop-out to me Razor. Methinks you just got punk'd and you're backpeddling. Step up and be a man if you wanna talk trash! :P

Dream
03-02-2005, 06:27 AM
You're right; I told you I will not post a "mock draft" of the first round until all the combines and personal workouts are done. For the exact reason I posted above.

I wasn't trying to take a "slap" at you - posting your mock online makes it subject to criticism; what are we all supposed to do? Say, "Hey Razor, fantastic job on your mock draft!" -- I'm not going to lie to you, I'm going to tell you how it is. If you don't like what I have to say, atleast state why without having to get personal about things. Like you; I'll give credit where it's due and I'll give criticism where it's needed.


So what if I didn't post a mock draft after the criticism I gave on yours? What does that have to do with anything? Just because I critique your mock means I have to post one of my own? Eh, I don't think so. I'll post my mock draft when I'm good and ready which will probably be at the end of March or early April.

You're right; anyone can post their own mock draft -- the ones who've posted them did a lot better job (in my opinion) than you did.

Sure, we'll post our mocks and we'll let the best man win.

But if I see any personal attacks made on me or anyone else on this board; the challenge is void.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-02-2005, 07:18 AM
Well, my mock's dad can whoop up on your mock's dad!

You guys are being goobers. I think both of you make good contributions to the site and engage in quality discussion.

But anyhow, count me in as well, day before the draft I shall unleash a mock that will at least get 5 picks correct. I predict that will win.

EMCF
03-02-2005, 09:54 AM
Mock drafts, eh? I really need to start paying attention to college ball.

Either way, DB seems to know his stuff. Hopefully you stick around, get yourself a noticable sig or avatar, make it nice and easy to see you. :cheers:

db32
03-02-2005, 10:09 AM
Tell me what you know about Marion Barber III, im high on him, and I was wondering if he was at the combine?

Barber's a quality athlete. He's not in the same class as Carnell Williams, but few are. He's got good (though not elite) C.O.D. (change of direction) ability and has a quality first step. Gets to top speed easily. He doesn't have the violence in his movements some other backs in his class have though. He's elusive and tough to square up on-those are his best attributes. Has a lot of wiggle to him. He's not going to take a lot of big shots to his body-ball security and health shouldn't be a question. Handles himself well with the ball-gets the most out of his ability. As a ball carrier, he's going to change directions and show a lot of movement. His physique is somewhat disproportionate-strong well developed upper body and an under developed lower body. He can add more weight and get thicker through his hips-there's upside to him physically. Has some long speed to-if he makes a footrace out of it I like his chances. That's his MO-he's going to try to hit it big on each touch. He's going to try to elude and sprint.

db32
03-02-2005, 10:13 AM
Mock drafts, eh? I really need to start paying attention to college ball.

Either way, DB seems to know his stuff. Hopefully you stick around, get yourself a noticable sig or avatar, make it nice and easy to see you. :cheers:


I thank you. And I'll definitely work on it.

db32
03-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Enough, M Gan

This is not about Mock Drafts, so leave it alone...

It's about me schooling a troll that's on my nuts

Easy. Your beef is with me. I'm the one that got you agitated and over defensive. Don't take it out on anyone else. I'm right here-stay focused. I'm going to admit I was wrong, in return I ask you leave those guys alone. You have a temper-I see that. If you're upset, it's my fault. Don't take it out on anyone else. I drew your ire-I, and I alone. Let's keep this between us. Don't kick the dog because you had a bad day at work-tell off your boss.

I extend to you an olive branch-with a hitch. You've conviced me. You're right-those were my words that are responsible, I was the agonist. I drew first blood. You've probably been overly criticezed by others-and without merit nor reason. To that end I'd like to offer a gentleman's agreement; you pledge to know a lot about the game. Who am I to say you don't? Two educated men-let's behave as such and resolve this in such a manner. Let's say we pick this up before I made my lude remarks? We'll make this strictly about credibility. Are you up for that?

TXBRONC
03-02-2005, 10:52 AM
By two weeks ago, I had planned to launch a site and do evaluations on my own. I've been doing them since '98. I've been privelaged enough to have conversations with individuals like Scott Write (NFL Draft Countdown), Russ Lande (B.L.E.S.T.O. rep.-Cleve.) and even agreed to disagree with Gary Horton (NFL War Room). I can't find a host that will offer enough space without gouging. So, to pacify the itch, I'm willing to offer what information I have to you. If your intersted, just give a name and what type of write-up you want-block write up, or an abbreviated one. The block write-up is written with Arkose, so that'll have to be mailed to you. I'll attach it with a PM.

Ok DB32 what do you have on Antonio Ware, Patrick Saunders of the Denver Post seems to think he's draft possiblity. I don't care what style you use and if alright by me if you just want to post it here. Thanks! :)

db32
03-02-2005, 11:07 AM
Ok DB32 what do you have on Antonio Ware, Patrick Saunders of the Denver Post seems to think he's draft possiblity. I don't care what style you use and if alright by me if you just want to post it here. Thanks! :)


Oh, I absolutely hope Saunders is right. Jason Babin was a favorite of mine and Ware is so much like him. I certainly hope some GM somewhere has the guts it takes to snag this guy early-much the same way the Texans did with Babin.
Ware has elite quickness. Has an electric first step-gets to top speed easily. I know he recently put up a great time at the combine, but he plays every bit of that time on the field. He can really run. He'll be able to flatten out (where the end comes off the edge and follows with usually an arm under move , beats the blocker and takes almost a direct angle-shortest path-to the QB) with an uncommon ease. Changes directions more than easily enough, although not as athletic as guys like Antwan Peek and Jason Babin. Displays surprising tech. Uses his hands well and extends his arms. Does a better job against the run than he's been given credit for. Did I mention how fast he was? In a game against Louisiana Loffeyette (spelled?) he flatten out down the L.O.S. chasing a pitch the other way and got there so quickly, he forced the ball carrier into congestion. The play never had a chance to develope because he wrecked it-again, it was a pitch away from him. He's somethin'. He's got a tall, linear, broad shouldered physique and has a ton of room to grow physically. He can fill out a lot. His overall body strength is already adequate. I have only one concern with him-how well will he be able to redirect himself? If he can prove he can counter, the guys a pro-bowler waiting to happen. He competes like a demon-does everything he can to impact a play. He smacks, ever so badly, of Jason Taylor.

db32
03-02-2005, 11:12 AM
I was not referring to you at all....

How could you miss that badly? My beef is with Broncology....

Right-but I'm asking that you leave him alone. He's a good guy. Give him a chance.
And Mat'hir Uth Gan didn't deserve that either. Those two are some of the strongest contributors on this board-and well respected-and rightfully so. I know that has to be some underlying appreciation for them somewhere.

TXBRONC
03-02-2005, 11:23 AM
Oh, I absolutely hope Saunders is right. Jason Babin was a favorite of mine and Ware is so much like him. I certainly hope some GM somewhere has the guts it takes to snag this guy early-much the same way the Texans did with Babin.
Ware has elite quickness. Has an electric first step-gets to top speed easily. I know he recently put up a great time at the combine, but he plays every bit of that time on the field. He can really run. He'll be able to flatten out (where the end comes off the edge and follows with usually an arm under move , beats the blocker and takes almost a direct angle-shortest path-to the QB) with an uncommon ease. Changes directions more than easily enough, although not as athletic as guys like Antwan Peek and Jason Babin. Displays surprising tech. Uses his hands well and extends his arms. Does a better job against the run than he's been given credit for. Did I mention how fast he was? In a game against Louisiana Loffeyette (spelled?) he flatten out down the L.O.S. chasing a pitch the other way and got there so quickly, he forced the ball carrier into congestion. The play never had a chance to develope because he wrecked it-again, it was a pitch away from him. He's somethin'. He's got a tall, linear, broad shouldered physique and has a ton of room to grow physically. He can fill out a lot. His overall body strength is already adequate. I have only one concern with him-how well will he be able to redirect himself? If he can prove he can counter, the guys a pro-bowler waiting to happen. He competes like a demon-does everything he can to impact a play. He smacks, ever so badly, of Jason Taylor.

Thanks db. I wonder how/if the his level of competion will hold him back at all. I mean he played at Divison II didn't he?

db32
03-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Thanks db. I wonder how/if the his level of competion will hold him back at all. I mean he played at Divison II didn't he?

No, Troy State is a D-1 school-although they didn't play any strong D-1 teams and played teams below their level of competition. I don't think his alma mater will make much of a difference at all. Physically he's a cut above. He's ready to compete.

TXBRONC
03-02-2005, 11:55 AM
No, Troy State is a D-1 school-although they didn't play any strong D-1 teams and played teams below their level of competition. I don't think his alma mater will make much of a difference at all. Physically he's a cut above. He's ready to compete.

Cool he's sound like might make a great pick.

DPg2003
03-02-2005, 11:57 AM
Oh, I absolutely hope Saunders is right. Jason Babin was a favorite of mine and Ware is so much like him. I certainly hope some GM somewhere has the guts it takes to snag this guy early-much the same way the Texans did with Babin.
Ware has elite quickness. Has an electric first step-gets to top speed easily. I know he recently put up a great time at the combine, but he plays every bit of that time on the field. He can really run. He'll be able to flatten out (where the end comes off the edge and follows with usually an arm under move , beats the blocker and takes almost a direct angle-shortest path-to the QB) with an uncommon ease. Changes directions more than easily enough, although not as athletic as guys like Antwan Peek and Jason Babin. Displays surprising tech. Uses his hands well and extends his arms. Does a better job against the run than he's been given credit for. Did I mention how fast he was? In a game against Louisiana Loffeyette (spelled?) he flatten out down the L.O.S. chasing a pitch the other way and got there so quickly, he forced the ball carrier into congestion. The play never had a chance to develope because he wrecked it-again, it was a pitch away from him. He's somethin'. He's got a tall, linear, broad shouldered physique and has a ton of room to grow physically. He can fill out a lot. His overall body strength is already adequate. I have only one concern with him-how well will he be able to redirect himself? If he can prove he can counter, the guys a pro-bowler waiting to happen. He competes like a demon-does everything he can to impact a play. He smacks, ever so badly, of Jason Taylor.

If you're referring to Demarcus Ware this sounds great. I hope we pass on signing Gold and just draft Ware in Round 1.

db32
03-02-2005, 12:06 PM
If you notice, when you made your scouting opinions on players made known,Did I comment on you or your ability? NO.

Well thank you-I'll take that as a complement. You flatter me.


The only thing I have ever posted to you was a direct question about Gerard Warren, which was....you detailed all of his positives, and basically made him read like the second-coming of Kris Jenkins or something

I simply posed a question that you did not address.....what about his reputation? What about three years of his demonstratred lack of effort? What about the fact the the former fourth pick in his class or whatever he was was now being salvaged for a fourth rounder.....that's a fair question.....

And so I'll answer (for more kindly this time-I promise). Physically, not much (if anything) separates the two. Again, I'll direct this to a postulate I mentioned earlier; he played in a two-gap defense in Cleveland. That's comparable to asking Randy Moss to run low-numbered routes of a tree. You're not allowing him to do what he does best. You're not playing to his strengths and demanding that he reinvent himself as a player. Let him do what he does best and then we'll see.



Now bow out. I don't read your takes, and I generaly don't know anythying about what you say or do or your supposed qualifications or lack thereof, I don't care....move on to someone who does. Pretty simple.

Can't do that-he's defended me, I owe him at least this much. I only mentioned as much about my history as I did to allow myself some measure of credibility and let the text speak for itself there after.

We can continue on about Gerrard Warren if you'd like? I never really did get to hear how you felt about him.

db32
03-02-2005, 12:13 PM
If you're referring to Demarcus Ware this sounds great. I hope we pass on signing Gold and just draft Ware in Round 1.

Oh-likewise. I love him. If he can land in Denver-I don't care what pick is spent on him. He's the best athlete available at his position. Physically, that counts for so much. I he can whip a tackle with a race move, all that other stuff doesn't matter.

db32
03-02-2005, 12:48 PM
"Credability" is earned here with your takes....it is not a PhD that you have to post on a wall somewhere so that people will take what you say seriously...

Right-which is why I mentioned, I'll quote myself, "I'd let the text speak for itself". If it proves to be quality, then others will say so. If not, I'm sure they'll do the same.



....but remember, they said similar things about Daryl Gardener and Dale Carter....

Carter I'll give you, but his days ended when his addictions overwhelmed how he felt about the game.
Gardner wasn't the athlete everyone made him out be. He got out of his stance well, but he had only adequate C.O.D. ability, his posture was horrible and didn't use his hands enough. He was a big guy who got to a spot quickly after the snap. He didn't play with the strength his size suggests either.



I also find it interesting that you go to such lengths to detail the troubles Warren had with style of Defense and the techniques, etc....and then realize that the Broncos have aquired his services in part because they hired Patterson, his position coach in Cleveland....so you would think that Patterson would have a buig imput on how he is used, is it likely that Warren will be introduced to a different, new and improved style of play in Denver???

That would seem unlikely.

I, heavily, favor a one-gap defense. I don't recommend depth control in any way. But I know I can teach the antithesis of what I favor. With the money the NFL pays these coaches, I'll teach anything they want. I doubt he had any say in Clevelands approach. That said, even though Denver hired Warren's old position coach, that doesn't suggest a more conservative approach. If Denver stays with what they do, play through the backfield, Warren will be allowed to do what he does best and make the most out of his wonderful athletic ability.

TXBRONC
03-02-2005, 01:44 PM
Right-which is why I mentioned, I'll quote myself, "I'd let the text speak for itself". If it proves to be quality, then others will say so. If not, I'm sure they'll do the same.



Carter I'll give you, but his days ended when his addictions overwhelmed how he felt about the game.
Gardner wasn't the athlete everyone made him out be. He got out of his stance well, but he had only adequate C.O.D. ability, his posture was horrible and didn't use his hands enough. He was a big guy who got to a spot quickly after the snap. He didn't play with the strength his size suggests either.




I, heavily, favor a one-gap defense. I don't recommend depth control in any way. But I know I can teach the antithesis of what I favor. With the money the NFL pays these coaches, I'll teach anything they want. I doubt he had any say in Clevelands approach. That said, even though Denver hired Warren's old position coach, that doesn't suggest a more conservative approach. If Denver stays with what they do, play through the backfield, Warren will be allowed to do what he does best and make the most out of his wonderful athletic ability.

Hey DB I have another one for you. What about Vincent Jackson out of Northern Colorado? I know he's a wide receiver but some think he would better as TE. With his combination of size and speed I personally would rather he remain a wide out. What do you think?

Dream
03-02-2005, 02:57 PM
It's about me schooling a troll that's on my nuts

Spoken like a true adult; you just insulted me and you just lost the challenge.



Again, he fired the first salvo, but I will fire the last....he is still taking pot shots at me now...

I really could care less that he disagrees with anyting I post....that would be his choice....but when he takes shots at things I say, and does so out-of-context, and he tries to spin them to make me look bad...and that has grown irratating.

I don't appreciate it, and I have called him on it.....and when I have, he folds like a cheap tent...

Broncology started all of this when he criticized a Mock Draft of mine....the fact that he did so in itself is NOT the issue, or of any consequence...but he inferred that I was basically incompetent, which I, nor anyone else here would take lightly...

He also did so with a superiority-complex in his tone....to me, that meant, game on.....so I started to read up on some of his takes, etc, and realized there was only one way to describe his scouting takes, decidedly amateur.

He and his "staff" had this website, competed in the Huddle Report, blah, blah, blah....but when I called him on it...he bailed out and said I could not compete in the contest, and came up with some lame excuses....to this day, I still cannot verify who he or his "staff" is....

So the Mods turned us in, and we got the boot for a week....he then said he was apologizing, and did not mean for it to continue or get personal, fine.....then again, he is taking shots at me for no other reason than to try and discredit me, period. I will not tolerate that.

So, in other words....he started it, I finished it....and you are not welcome to intrude, his friend or not...

That is the illustrated difference. between Broncology and I. For whatever reason, decided he did not like me. I had not posted or responded to a Post by him at any time, period, so it was something he came up with in response to my posts on here....that's fine, again he can have his own opinion....BUT

He came after me completely unprovoked.....I don't care if he disagrees with me, or takes anything I say to heart at all...I could care less....but if you do so in a disrespectful manner, like he did, I will tear you apart, and that's a fact.


I have few words for this. Act the way you'd like to be perceived. If you're going to act like a jerk; expect to be treated similar. I haven't said anything rude to you; if questioning your football knowledge is something you can't take - get off the boards. What exactly have you called me on? -- You still haven't answered that quesiton. I don't have a "superiority" complex -- I criticized your draft. Get over it, grow up. Do something constructive with your life other than arguing with younger people about football. If that's all I can say to you.

If I don't agree with what you say; I'm going to say something about it. I haven't got personal; you're the one telling kids to go run in the street and calling people names and acting immature. What I'm doing now is the last I'm going to say to you. Message me with a rude manner again and I'll have something done about it. You make this board a living hell for a lot of members and it's not appreciated.

Don't reply to me; you're not welcome. Prove to me you're the bigger man and keep your mouth shut around me.

db32
03-02-2005, 03:45 PM
Hey DB I have another one for you. What about Vincent Jackson out of Northern Colorado? I know he's a wide receiver but some think he would better as TE. With his combination of size and speed I personally would rather he remain a wide out. What do you think?

I see what's he listed at, but I'm not sure he's that small. He's big. On film he's a mountain. I don't have the resoureces others do, the film I have of him is the senior bowl and even there he's incredibly enormous. His physique is linear and somewhat developed, but he's got narrow hips. He'll have a hard time holding any added weight the same way Portis did, so WR's his position.
As a WR;
Big and knows it, will use that size he has-in every aspect. Unafraid to get physical. Ideally suited for split-end in that regard. Has a little trouble getting going-he's got some wasted motion in his getoff. He's pretty high cut (long legged), so he'll have to learn to keep his hips down. Doesn't seem have much trouble changing directions. Will do well enough here to compete. Very natural plucker, snatches the ball with his hands away from his body. Adequate after the catch-though he gets upfield quickly. Strong ball skills too. Competitive enough-will compete. Very similar to Justin Gage, but bigger.

TXBRONC
03-03-2005, 09:42 AM
I see what's he listed at, but I'm not sure he's that small. He's big. On film he's a mountain. I don't have the resoureces others do, the film I have of him is the senior bowl and even there he's incredibly enormous. His physique is linear and somewhat developed, but he's got narrow hips. He'll have a hard time holding any added weight the same way Portis did, so WR's his position.
As a WR;
Big and knows it, will use that size he has-in every aspect. Unafraid to get physical. Ideally suited for split-end in that regard. Has a little trouble getting going-he's got some wasted motion in his getoff. He's pretty high cut (long legged), so he'll have to learn to keep his hips down. Doesn't seem have much trouble changing directions. Will do well enough here to compete. Very natural plucker, snatches the ball with his hands away from his body. Adequate after the catch-though he gets upfield quickly. Strong ball skills too. Competitive enough-will compete. Very similar to Justin Gage, but bigger.

I appreciate it. If I think of anyone else I'll let you know.

EMCF
03-03-2005, 01:17 PM
Did I sense a tear in your eye as you posted this? :P

Wow, yet another cowardly one-liner, not bothering to address what people have said to you and striking back with a petty insult. Wait... do you hear that? I, I think... yes, it's your credibility being flushed down the crapper.

EMCF
03-03-2005, 01:32 PM
Title in your name, EC whatever...."pretend"...yeah, that pretty much sums it up... :coffee:

Wow, yet another one liner! Even more irrelevant then the last! By and by, I meant to say "it's the sound of your credibility being flushed down the crapper", I fixed that right up for ya.

EMCF
03-03-2005, 01:37 PM
you could get it right in two posts....and with such a complex, thought-provoking concept behind it...your mommie must be proud.

Move on, Canook
Wow, the one-line bandit strikes again! In one fell swoop he mocks a typo, brings my mother into this and makes fun of me for being Canadian!

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

EMCF
03-03-2005, 01:43 PM
Wow! you hurt my feelings :duh:


Sigh.

I'm not out to hurt your feelings, though that would be a plus. People are making fairly long posts with valid arguments, yet all you can do is shoot back with one-lined insults. It's sad, and it makes you sound even less credible than usual.

db32
03-03-2005, 02:32 PM
I know you don’t care much B59R but I WILL lose the little respect I still have left for you if you’ll keep posting off-topics posts in this thread.
It’s clear that the feelings between you and db are mutual. None of you will win this “battle of words”
If you want to post a scouting report on C.O. I will read it. If you just want to criticize anything db or other user will post than just resist the urge.


Thx,
Deuce


Again, my apologies. I normally don't react like that. I feel terrible if I made you feel uncomfortable enough to ask. Sometimes my impulse control leaves something to be desired.

I got involved with player evaluation in '98-and one of the training tools I was able to use was the 99 '49ers. I had to write up every player from a preseason game, so there were several of them. I think that's when I got carpel tunnel. "CO" was the left end at the time.

He's got a strong first step and gets out of his stance very well-can really get on top of a blocker quickly. His best athletic quality is his C.O.D. (change of direction) ability. You'll never see him get stuck on the cliff (lineman are taught never to pursue deeper than the QB is-that's the cliff, because when a QB steps up he'll reestablish where that cliff is). He uses his hands exceptionally well. That and his C.O.D. ability makes him very good at counters. Will be able to keep the blockers arms off him and and pursue the ball carrier. Has a little trouble flattening out though (a race move-when the perimeter defender comes off the edge and is able to sink his hips and get the corner and flattens out down the L.O.S.-line of scrimmage). He may not win with his initial move, but he's a tough block. He'll stay after it and refuse to engage the blocker-he wants to knock his hands down, cross his face and pursue. Think Chad Bratzke plus. That competitive nature comes in handy in the run game too. He may not be able to stack, but he can get off the blocker and make the tackle himself. He'll contribute more in the run game than Hayward could. If he's in Denver, I'll not complain.

SeahawksForever
03-03-2005, 02:43 PM
Wow, that's impressive db32. Great evaluations.

What do you think about Ken Lucas - CB?

DPg2003
03-03-2005, 02:53 PM
Again, my apologies. I normally don't react like that. I feel terrible if I made you feel uncomfortable enough to ask. Sometimes my impulse control leaves something to be desired.

I got involved with player evaluation in '98-and one of the training tools I was able to use was the 99 '49ers. I had to write up every player from a preseason game, so there were several of them. I think that's when I got carpel tunnel. "CO" was the left end at the time.

He's got a strong first step and gets out of his stance very well-can really get on top of a blocker quickly. His best athletic quality is his C.O.D. (change of direction) ability. You'll never see him get stuck on the cliff (lineman are taught never to pursue deeper than the QB is-that's the cliff, because when a QB steps up he'll reestablish where that cliff is). He uses his hands exceptionally well. That and his C.O.D. ability makes him very good at counters. Will be able to keep the blockers arms off him and and pursue the ball carrier. Has a little trouble flattening out though (a race move-when the perimeter defender comes off the edge and is able to sink his hips and get the corner and flattens out down the L.O.S.-line of scrimmage). He may not win with his initial move, but he's a tough block. He'll stay after it and refuse to engage the blocker-he wants to knock his hands down, cross his face and pursue. Think Chad Bratzke plus. That competitive nature comes in handy in the run game too. He may not be able to stack, but he can get off the blocker and make the tackle himself. He'll contribute more in the run game than Hayward could. If he's in Denver, I'll not complain.

Hearing this has made me reconsider my position on Okeafor. I still don't want to see management dish out big dough on him though. It looks like all the panicking people are doing on here will subside pretty soon, we are fixing the D people.

TXBRONC
03-03-2005, 03:48 PM
Hearing this has made me reconsider my position on Okeafor. I still don't want to see management dish out big dough on him though. It looks like all the panicking people are doing on here will subside pretty soon, we are fixing the D.

That's just it DPg I think Mike and company understand what the have to spend and I don't they want break the bank on anyone player.

DPg2003
03-03-2005, 04:05 PM
That's just it DPg I think Mike and company understand what the have to spend and I don't they want break the bank on anyone player.

I just don't want another Free Agent to come in and get a nice size contract and then do absolutely nothing, you know what I mean. But I like the steps we've taken so far. Remember, it's only March 3!!

TXBRONC
03-03-2005, 04:09 PM
I just don't want another Free Agent to come in and get a nice size contract and then do absolutely nothing, you know what I mean. But I like the steps we've taken so far. Remember, it's only March 3!!

I hear ya. I do hope will get something with Pryce done asap.

rcsodak
03-03-2005, 08:27 PM
Pause a moment whilst DB prints off all of his internet reports and makes a summary for you...


Isn't that YOUR background??????
Why pick on somebody that hasn't done squat to you? Jealous that he's being asked questions?

Quit loathing.

db32
03-04-2005, 08:48 AM
Wow, that's impressive db32. Great evaluations.

What do you think about Ken Lucas - CB?

I'm glad you brought him up-he's an outstanding example. When you think of a player that has the ability to be a successful starter, but needs a bit of work, it's him.

Ken Lucas is an athletic enigma. Shows very godd C.O.D. (change of direction) ability when he plays with good posture. He's tall, a legit 6'+ guy, and he's somewhat high cut (long legged, high hips). Guys who are high cut have a tendency to get tall. Try this, it's an easy, yet impactful, experiment to show you what I'm talking about-take a position like you're about to race someone. Imagine that someone just signaled the start of our hypethetical race, take a couple of steps. What was your first move? Odds are you were like the rest of us, you sunk your hips, then moved and your shortest step was your first. Now try that same experiment with your hips already down-your first step is longer, your first move and it naturally took you into a sprinters posture. Your athleticism comes from your hips-if a player can consistently keep them down, he'll be naturally more athletic. Watch a running back who gets to top speed quickly-you'll notice his pad level never changes. Lucas needs to work on keeping his hips down, because he's a heck of an athlete, but when he gets tall he struggles changing directions. He has good speed too, at least enough to compete. He has surprising route recognition-he might play it a bit safe, but he doesn't get fooled by "dragon" or "HALO" routes. A dragon route is a stop and go-Lucus will wait for the WR to throw his hips and shape his stem before commiting. He might break late on an out or comeback, but he won't give up the big one. A HALO route is a hail out. The reciever makes an out cut, tries to sell it and then makes a sharp break upfield. Lucas will watch the shape of his stem-if the WR cuts upfield, he will too-he won't break on it. He knows what he's looking at. He's athletic and smart, so once he can get a handle on his posture, he'll start making more big plays because he'll give himself more chances to make a play on the ball without cheating on anything.

ATL5515
03-06-2005, 06:30 AM
what round do you think fabian washinton will be drafted?
i would love the falcons to get him

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-06-2005, 06:35 AM
what round do you think fabian washinton will be drafted?
i would love the falcons to get him

Early-mid 2nd round. He'd be a reach in the late 1st, but teams are known to reach. His speed is elite.

ATL5515
03-06-2005, 06:55 AM
Early-mid 2nd round. He'd be a reach in the late 1st, but teams are known to reach. His speed is elite.

thanks
so do you not think he will be there at 27 in round 2

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-06-2005, 07:09 AM
thanks
so do you not think he will be there at 27 in round 2

Not after the combine he just had, no. He may slip a tad, but I doubt he gets past the early 20s in round 2. Would be a complete shock.

ATL5515
03-06-2005, 07:40 AM
Not after the combine he just had, no. He may slip a tad, but I doubt he gets past the early 20s in round 2. Would be a complete shock.

:mad:
ok thanks

ATL5515
03-06-2005, 07:42 AM
one more person...
marcus vick what do you think of him

Mat'hir Uth Gan
03-06-2005, 08:01 AM
one more person...
marcus vick what do you think of him

He's still in school, he was just accepted back to VT. I think he has potential but he needs to behave and play better football.

ATL5515
03-06-2005, 08:06 AM
He's still in school, he was just accepted back to VT. I think he has potential but he needs to behave and play better football.
yeah i know he isn't coming out
just wondering cause i heard he he ran a 4.2something 40 time