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bronx_2003
11-16-2003, 06:19 PM
1st, as i said a few weeks ago, the chiefs are irrelevant as they have the west. all that matters is that we make it as a wildcard and go from there.

2nd, as for some chief fans saying plummer would have made no difference, that is laughable!!! its like taking d.hall away from the chiefs.

3rd, woah chiefs!!! not a great run D!

4th, i have said all along the chiefs are overrated and just have a very easy schedule (as do denver,to be fair) and the titans are far better than kc but have played alot of tough games.

5th, kc say there offense is great but it seems to me that they only put up alot of points because hall always gives them great field position. (and denver or kc fans agree with this)???

finally, last year we bombed when griese was out (he is a v.bad qb though) but steve came in with a depleted team mising most notably sharpe. also, kanell is'nt gr8 but he also came in missing a lot of starters. what do ya'll think about any of this????

bronx_2003
11-16-2003, 06:45 PM
kc has the west. denver should get a wildcard. im not trying to annoy you h/face but the problem on the board is the chiefs keep telling us they are the best but us bronco fans really dont believe it. we go 5-1 and lose in kc by 1 point after dominating the game and now jake and co. are back we win easy (only the chargers but you have easy games most of the time too) we lost 3 in a row with a depleted team and 3rd string qb. can you just give your opinion on 2 q's h/face.

1. how would kc have done in them 3 games if hit with the same amount of injuries in the same places as denver got them, in your opinion?

2. do you think kc are alot better than denver?

Mortonistheman
11-16-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by booher
if kc plays like this the rest of the year you better hope for the wildcard.............the bunguls..........lmfao

GURANTEE KC will not play the rest of the season the way they did today....and is bunguls the only response you come back with. WOW that's a real good one. Your a complete idiot if you think Cincy is not a good football team right now....as I said before your Broncos didn't have the best game against them and won the game...just like we didn't have our best game against denver eariler this year and won the game....but I forgot it's different when it's Denver not playing well but still winning the game....Take your freakin blinders off...THIS WAS JUST ONE GAME!!!

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!

hammer51770
11-16-2003, 06:52 PM
I think Kanell played one hell of a game against the Patriots. He may not have won it for us, but he didn't lose it for us either. Considering the number of starters that were out for that game, I think the fact that it was so close says something about the depth of the roster. :fight:

bronx_2003
11-16-2003, 06:54 PM
that was a poor reply. denver won by 20 points against bengals and kc beat denver by 1. the bengals look a decent team this year and that was a very tough game for kc. i don't want this post to turn into a smack post but just want all of the fans of any team to give there honest opinions about things. i will answer any q's i get with honesty too.

Mortonistheman
11-16-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
that was a poor reply. denver won by 20 points against bengals and kc beat denver by 1. the bengals look a decent team this year and that was a very tough game for kc. i don't want this post to turn into a smack post but just want all of the fans of any team to give there honest opinions about things. i will answer any q's i get with honesty too.

How was that a poor reply??? I don't care if you won the game by 20...Jake had a very poor game (if I remember right about 3 or 4Ints) but they still found a way to win...whether it's by 20 or by 1 point. You find ways to win despite not having a very good game...You Bronco fans want others opinions as long as it lines up with us conceding that Denver is better than KC. Sorry but I HONESTLY think KC is the better team overall and has a better chance of making it to the SB than Denver. We lost today and Denver won....IT'S JUST ONE GAME!!!

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!

SLCBroncFan
11-16-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
1st, as i said a few weeks ago, the chiefs are irrelevant as they have the west. all that matters is that we make it as a wildcard and go from there.

2nd, as for some chief fans saying plummer would have made no difference, that is laughable!!! its like taking d.hall away from the chiefs.

3rd, woah chiefs!!! not a great run D!

4th, i have said all along the chiefs are overrated and just have a very easy schedule (as do denver,to be fair) and the titans are far better than kc but have played alot of tough games.

5th, kc say there offense is great but it seems to me that they only put up alot of points because hall always gives them great field position. (and denver or kc fans agree with this)???

finally, last year we bombed when griese was out (he is a v.bad qb though) but steve came in with a depleted team mising most notably sharpe. also, kanell is'nt gr8 but he also came in missing a lot of starters. what do ya'll think about any of this????
I agree with all of ur statements. You're right that if Denver gets the wildcard then its all good. And the comment that Plummer would have made no difference is crazy. Just look at the charger game, 253yds 26-34 passing *(I think that was his completion numbers, tell me if im wrong)* and 3TD's, and one INT. Not bad for the first game back and i dont think either of our back up QB's put up numbers like that in there few games. They dont have a great run defense that is also tru, we out played them almost the entire game, but unfortunately we cant tackle worth a d**n and D. Hall ran that punt back givin them a one point win.
We'll see how they hold up at Invesco come Dec. 7th

dkiddkc
11-16-2003, 08:58 PM
ok to all you Bronc's fans, I like Denver's D, and Denver's O.

Plummer is playing well. You have Smith and Ed who are aging but still playable. Sharpe is Sharpe. And I love Portis's speed.

Now stacked up against the Chiefs, let me see.

Right now, Chiefs D or Denver's D is a toss up. You all have better players, but the Chiefs have been making bigger plays on D.

Trent or Jake. l like Jake. Trent is cool, but I always like a scrambling quarterback.

Portis or Holmes. Holmes for vision, Portis for speed. Another toss up.

Sharpe or Gonzalez. I like TG. Sharpe is cool, but old, still make great plays, but really, have you seen some of TG highlight reel, only his 7th season too.

Wide receivers. Edge to Bronco's. I like Kennison and Morton, but Smith and Ed have been doing it for awhile now. Like Ashley too. Except if we start Marc more as #1 or #2 things could change quick.

x- factor Dante Hall, Delth O'neal. Hall period.

Case in point. These two teams just match up too good. forget all the trash talking, and garbage talking, I've always respected the Bronco's even though I'm a die hard Chiefs fan. The last few 7 to 8 years between the Chiefs and Bronco's have been faboulous. What a rivarly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you all think???

TXBRONC
11-16-2003, 09:26 PM
TG's highlight reel is commercial compared to the 14 seasons full length feature of Sharpe. Tony will never be as good as Sharpe is.

Perry1977
11-16-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by dkiddkc
ok to all you Bronc's fans, I like Denver's D, and Denver's O.

Sharpe or Gonzalez. I like TG. Sharpe is cool, but old, still make great plays, but really, have you seen some of TG highlight reel, only his 7th season too.

x- factor Dante Hall, Delth O'neal. Hall period.

Case in point. These two teams just match up too good. forget all the trash talking, and garbage talking, I've always respected the Bronco's even though I'm a die hard Chiefs fan. The last few 7 to 8 years between the Chiefs and Bronco's have been faboulous. What a rivarly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you all think???

Dont know if you watched the Broncos game at all, but as far as the Gonzalez/Sharpe thing goes, today Shannon became the all time leading Tight End in TD's with 61. Best ever.

Secondly, Deltha O'neal was inactive today, and our punt returner, Rod Smith, returned a punt for a TD. 1 more today than Hall. ;P

Mer
11-16-2003, 10:59 PM
Everyone had punt retuns except us. :(

There are too many threads to respond to. lol We're guests of a Bronco forum so I expect to have to eat my fair share of smack when we lose. I don't particularly respond to the "HEY DIPS... CHIEF FANS" kind of threads.. but I don't start those for the Broncos either.

Anyways, I'll say it here for all the jerk Bronco fans.

We lost one game so far. We could have lost to fricking Detroit, and it's still just ONE game. It doesn't mean we suck, or that we're all of a sudden going to spiral down the proverbial NFL toilet. It doesn't mean that Horseface, RC, me, or any other Chief fan is stupid. There could be other reasons why we're stupid, but being die hard fans isn't one of them.

So insult my team. They deserve it this week. But lay off the insults of the fans. The jerks will be gone with this loss, the ones left don't deserve it.

Return of Lava
11-16-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Mer
Everyone had punt retuns except us. :(

There are too many threads to respond to. lol We're guests of a Bronco forum so I expect to have to eat my fair share of smack when we lose. I don't particularly respond to the "HEY DIPS... CHIEF FANS" kind of threads.. but I don't start those for the Broncos either.

Anyways, I'll say it here for all the jerk Bronco fans.

We lost one game so far. We could have lost to fricking Detroit, and it's still just ONE game. It doesn't mean we suck, or that we're all of a sudden going to spiral down the proverbial NFL toilet. It doesn't mean that Horseface, RC, me, or any other Chief fan is stupid. There could be other reasons why we're stupid, but being die hard fans isn't one of them.

So insult my team. They deserve it this week. But lay off the insults of the fans. The jerks will be gone with this loss, the ones left don't deserve it. Aww, you're so cute when you're mad:rolleyes:

Javalon
11-16-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Mer
Everyone had punt retuns except us. :(

There are too many threads to respond to. lol We're guests of a Bronco forum so I expect to have to eat my fair share of smack when we lose. I don't particularly respond to the "HEY DIPS... CHIEF FANS" kind of threads.. but I don't start those for the Broncos either.

Anyways, I'll say it here for all the jerk Bronco fans.

We lost one game so far. We could have lost to fricking Detroit, and it's still just ONE game. It doesn't mean we suck, or that we're all of a sudden going to spiral down the proverbial NFL toilet. It doesn't mean that Horseface, RC, me, or any other Chief fan is stupid. There could be other reasons why we're stupid, but being die hard fans isn't one of them.

So insult my team. They deserve it this week. But lay off the insults of the fans. The jerks will be gone with this loss, the ones left don't deserve it.

Hey Mer, you're cool. You make up for most of the jerk KC fans. Sorry about any jerk Broncos fan if they make it personal. You'll feel better next week after your Chiefs barbecue the Raiders.

Mer
11-16-2003, 11:17 PM
Sad.

Not mad. Never mad. You are all 89 year old ladies to me on the Internet. Can't get mad at screen names.

I also cant possibly respond to every insult posted, and if I don't... Then we're fair weather band wagon fans. :rolleyes:

Thanks Javalon. You're cool enough for me to spend the rest of my life attempting to convert to the Red side.

;)

Return of Lava
11-16-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Mer
Sad.

Not mad. Never mad. You are all 89 year old ladies to me on the Internet. Can't get mad at screen names.

I also cant possibly respond to every insult posted, and if I don't... Then we're fair weather band wagon fans. :rolleyes: OK, you're cute when you're sad

Arab Bronco
11-16-2003, 11:20 PM
i dont think that we can judge the chefs until next week.. if they loose again and play ***** like they did agianst the bungles, then maybe we can start wishing for the division title.
I think the broncos can go 6-1 or even 7-0 (i know its kind of wishful thinking) but i think the only game that we would loose would be agianst the colts, the packers and chefs will be toughies but i think we can come out with a W out of both of them.

TXBRONC
11-16-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Mer
Everyone had punt retuns except us. :(

There are too many threads to respond to. lol We're guests of a Bronco forum so I expect to have to eat my fair share of smack when we lose. I don't particularly respond to the "HEY DIPS... CHIEF FANS" kind of threads.. but I don't start those for the Broncos either.

Anyways, I'll say it here for all the jerk Bronco fans.

We lost one game so far. We could have lost to fricking Detroit, and it's still just ONE game. It doesn't mean we suck, or that we're all of a sudden going to spiral down the proverbial NFL toilet. It doesn't mean that Horseface, RC, me, or any other Chief fan is stupid. There could be other reasons why we're stupid, but being die hard fans isn't one of them.

So insult my team. They deserve it this week. But lay off the insults of the fans. The jerks will be gone with this loss, the ones left don't deserve it.

horseface is still here and sometimes he deserves what he gets.

Return of Lava
11-16-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by horseface
the packers are looking solid...and at Lambeau...it will be just as tough as Indy at that point in the season... I think we will either beat the colts or the packers. we wont lose both and we probably wont win both. itll be 1-1 maybe

Javalon
11-16-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Mer
Thanks Javalon. You're cool enough for me to spend the rest of my life attempting to convert to the Red side.

;)

Heh. That might be more frustrating for you than it was for you to watch the Chiefs-Bengals game today.

You keep trying, though. And I'll keep trying to swing you over to the Orange & Blue. :D

Arab Bronco
11-16-2003, 11:38 PM
hey horseface, the packers rnt anymore solid than the bungles!!!, and we know what happened to them when they were in the broncos waybungles

Arab Bronco
11-16-2003, 11:43 PM
hey man no need to get personal, i know ur just really pissed over a ***** ass performance by ur chefs

Arab Bronco
11-16-2003, 11:49 PM
i just wanna say it one more time, coz i really like the way it sounds.. CHEFS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCk

Return of Lava
11-16-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Arab Bronco
i just wanna say it one more time, coz i really like the way it sounds.. CHEFS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCk i wish i could speed up these games and hurry up and get to the playoffs. i dont like all the tension

Mer
11-16-2003, 11:54 PM
I know what you mean Lava. I wanna get there and see what happens. But I'm also sad over half the season is over.

Spring training for basball starts in a few months. Where the hell did the year go?

Javalon
11-16-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Mer
I know what you mean Lava. I wanna get there and see what happens. But I'm also sad over half the season is over.

Spring training for basball starts in a few months. Where the hell did the year go?

No doubt. Football is my favorite sport BY FAR. The 6 month offseason seems like an eternity every year. I'm already dreading the end of the season. :(

Return of Lava
11-16-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Mer
I know what you mean Lava. I wanna get there and see what happens. But I'm also sad over half the season is over.

Spring training for basball starts in a few months. Where the hell did the year go? lol i didnt notice that. time for me to bust out a colorado rockies thread

Arab Bronco
11-16-2003, 11:59 PM
if we beat the chefs on Dec 7th, i think we've got a fairly good shot of beating them at home in the playoffs. (remember what happened in '97)

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by horseface
bite me...TX. I see you still haven't commented about your being wrong in the case of the TD ruling. It's OK...you made a mistake...now just suck it up...admit it...and we can move on.

No thanks. And yes I did respond and its going to be the last one concerning the ruling.

Javalon
11-17-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Arab Bronco
if we beat the chefs on Dec 7th, i think we've got a fairly good shot of beating them at home in the playoffs. (remember what happened in '97)

Sure we can beat them. But it will be very tough. But don't base this season off of '97. That team had John Elway and Terrell Davis. I like Jake Plummer but he doesn't exactly have a lot of playoff experience. It'd be nice to not have him get that experience in Kansas City.

Mer
11-17-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Arab Bronco
(remember what happened in '97)

I graduated from high school.

That has about as much relevance.

Return of Lava
11-17-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by horseface
me too...where'd you go to high school out there Mer? HEY back up off my woman!

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 12:21 AM
horseface, is your avatar a picture of you with oxygen?

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 12:29 AM
Well your posts make you sound like a cranky old man. kidding.

Mer
11-17-2003, 12:30 AM
I'm cranky. :(

Mer
11-17-2003, 12:31 AM
eeep forgot to answer horseface.

I grew up in Los Angeles, and Newport Beach. Graduated there. Are you in KC?

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by horseface
It's late...and it's been a long day...my apologies.

Accepted, but not necessary.

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
1st, as i said a few weeks ago, the chiefs are irrelevant as they have the west. all that matters is that we make it as a wildcard and go from there.



I wouldn't concede anything as far as the division goes right now. Every streak starts with the first game, whether a win or a loss. It would take a small miracle, but the Chefs could lose enough games to make winning the division possible.

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
2nd, as for some chief fans saying plummer would have made no difference, that is laughable!!! its like taking d.hall away from the chiefs.



Obviously, Plummer makes a huge difference. Take out the first game of the season, and he has thrown 11 TDs against 1 Int (the tipped ball he threw today).

His mobility and ability to improvise make him vitally important!

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
3rd, woah chiefs!!! not a great run D!



Classic Robinson defense. Let's not forget, it was his defense that allowed Corey Dillon to run his way into the record books a few seasons ago. His style hasn't changed a bit.

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
4th, i have said all along the chiefs are overrated and just have a very easy schedule (as do denver,to be fair) and the titans are far better than kc but have played alot of tough games.



Overated or not, the Chefs have a better record. Sometimes, if you can't be good, you only have to be lucky.

Schedules are basically the same, so I don't see that as a valid point, but they have had the schedule stacked in their favor as far as the number of home games they got to play early in the season.

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
5th, kc say there offense is great but it seems to me that they only put up alot of points because hall always gives them great field position. (and denver or kc fans agree with this)???



I can't say I agree with this one. Holmes is near the top in the league in total yards from scrimmage and Green is having one of his best years ever.

Regardless of field position, the name of the game is to score points, and the Chefs have been able to do that quite well this year.

broncos_mtnman
11-17-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
finally, last year we bombed when griese was out (he is a v.bad qb though) but steve came in with a depleted team mising most notably sharpe. also, kanell is'nt gr8 but he also came in missing a lot of starters. what do ya'll think about any of this????

Let's see, we finished 9-7 last year, with B-line going 1-2. That means that Griese was 8-5. Not bad, if you ask me.

Griese wasn't a good fit for a team with one of the smallest O-lines in the NFL. He's not mobile enough.

Kannell had everyone that Plummer had today. He's just too green with Shanny's complicated offense. He'll get better as time goes on.

ChiefsMang
11-17-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
5th, kc say there offense is great but it seems to me that they only put up alot of points because hall always gives them great field position. (and denver or kc fans agree with this)???
See yesterdays game.


Originally posted by bronx_2003
3rd, woah chiefs!!! not a great run D!
True, but that's not what lost that game. Or any other game for that matter.

AsianOrange
11-17-2003, 09:22 AM
Good to see ya back TXBronc!

hammer51770
11-17-2003, 11:29 AM
I agree with dkiddkc statement about the rivalry, it's definitely a good one. It is also true that Ed, Sharpe and others are getting old, but that also means that they are very experienced. That goes a long way, look at last year's Raiders...old, but good. They fell apart this year for many reasons, one of them being age, but that isn't the only reason. I look forward to Dec. 7 and some payback to the Chiefs !!! :D

bronx_2003
11-17-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
I can't say I agree with this one. Holmes is near the top in the league in total yards from scrimmage and Green is having one of his best years ever.

Regardless of field position, the name of the game is to score points, and the Chefs have been able to do that quite well this year.


ok, after thinking about this one i was wrong, they have a great offense. although against the bengals it seemed like they started in great field position all the time because of hall. imagine if hall took a big hit and went on IR next week! where would the chiefs be!!! (i don't wish an injury on any1 of course).

broncos4ever
11-17-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by bronx_2003
ok, after thinking about this one i was wrong, they have a great offense. although against the bengals it seemed like they started in great field position all the time because of hall. imagine if hall took a big hit and went on IR next week! where would the chiefs be!!! (i don't wish an injury on any1 of course).

I agree. Hall is a huge part of the success by being able to give them a "short" field to work with.

Deltha could have done the same for us, but he was always afraid of getting hurt. Rod just plays 100%, no matter what. Our return game is going to get much better if we keep Rod back there. Scary though, you don't want to see Rod get hurt.

Portis-Plummer
11-17-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by horseface
I'm in denver now...but grew up in the shawnee mission area...went to KU.

wow its a bronco hater in denver odd.

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 08:20 PM
Thanks CA, had some personal buiness I needed to attend too.

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by broncos4ever
I agree. Hall is a huge part of the success by being able to give them a "short" field to work with.

Deltha could have done the same for us, but he was always afraid of getting hurt. Rod just plays 100%, no matter what. Our return game is going to get much better if we keep Rod back there. Scary though, you don't want to see Rod get hurt.

My gut feeling about Deltha is that he going end up being released sometime next summer unless he can get his head screwed on right.

TXBRONC
11-17-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by hammer51770
I agree with dkiddkc statement about the rivalry, it's definitely a good one. It is also true that Ed, Sharpe and others are getting old, but that also means that they are very experienced. That goes a long way, look at last year's Raiders...old, but good. They fell apart this year for many reasons, one of them being age, but that isn't the only reason. I look forward to Dec. 7 and some payback to the Chiefs !!! :D

I agree with you. However older players are more susceptible to injury and it takes them longer get ready for the next game because the body does not bounce back as fast. On the Broncos Home page just listen to Sharpe post game interview.

Return of Lava
11-17-2003, 08:54 PM
Maybe they can play as long as jerry rice

TXBRONC
11-18-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Maybe they can play as long as jerry rice

Sharpe has said he would rather leave a year too soon than a year too late. In his post game interview he said that its harder for him to prep becaue he is older.

Bwelte01
11-18-2003, 11:21 PM
Even though I hate to say it, the Broncos won't overtake the Chiefs in the West. I do however think that they are in contention once they are in the playoffs. We have a very good team, and I think that we can run with the best of them. The only problem is, injuries on defense may spoil this season.
:fight: (Broncos) :( (Chiefs after we knock them out of the playoffs)

TXBRONC
11-18-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Bwelte01
Even though I hate to say it, the Broncos won't overtake the Chiefs in the West. I do however think that they are in contention once they are in the playoffs. We have a very good team, and I think that we can run with the best of them. The only problem is, injuries on defense may spoil this season.
:fight: (Broncos) :( (Chiefs after we knock them out of the playoffs)

I think you're right, although its not mathematically impossible right now to overtake the Chefs I think it will happen. I too think Denver's chance of getting into the playoffs are pretty good. I just hope they can get and a little healthier and stay that way for the remaider of the year.

Return of Lava
11-18-2003, 11:34 PM
The reason they are getting injured is because they are overworking

broncos4ever
11-19-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
The reason they are getting injured is because they are overworking

Why do you say this? Most of the major injuries have occured in games and some of them have just been freak injuries on special teams.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by broncos4ever
Why do you say this? Most of the major injuries have occured in games and some of them have just been freak injuries on special teams. I say this because they work so hard in practice and it results in stronger, but more tight muscles that can easily tear or strain. This is combined with the fact there is thin air in Denver muscles are not properly oxygenized (LOL). Some injuries, like broken pinkies and such are more a result of bad luck, but the tears strains and briuses (Ian Gold, Terry Pierce, Cole, Mccaffrey) come from those being so tight and combinations like that. Thats why every year we have so many injuries.

rascal
11-19-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
I say this because they work so hard in practice and it results in stronger, but more tight muscles that can easily tear or strain. This is combined with the fact there is thin air in Denver muscles are not properly oxygenized (LOL). Some injuries, like broken pinkies and such are more a result of bad luck, but the tears strains and briuses (Ian Gold, Terry Pierce, Cole, Mccaffrey) come from those being so tight and combinations like that. Thats why every year we have so many injuries.

So you are saying that the high elevation causes the muscles to not be able to be properly oxygenized, thus resulting in injuries such as tears, strains, and bruises? That is interesting, although I have my doubts, do you have anything to back it up? I lived in Colorado my entire life till three years ago, and since then I have had more injuries then my entire life. That is why I am skeptical. Of course it could be age.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by rascal
So you are saying that the high elevation causes the muscles to not be able to be properly oxygenized, thus resulting in injuries such as tears, strains, and bruises? That is interesting, although I have my doubts, do you have anything to back it up? I lived in Colorado my entire life till three years ago, and since then I have had more injuries then my entire life. That is why I am skeptical. Of course it could be age. Part of my reason is that when i lived there i pulled my Quad in a race in middle school and never was the same speed again. the nurse gave me that idea and when i moved, i havent been injured since.

rascal
11-19-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Part of my reason is that when i lived there i pulled my Quad in a race in middle school and never was the same speed again. the nurse gave me that idea and when i moved, i havent been injured since.

interesting.

Javalon
11-19-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
I say this because they work so hard in practice and it results in stronger, but more tight muscles that can easily tear or strain. This is combined with the fact there is thin air in Denver muscles are not properly oxygenized (LOL). Some injuries, like broken pinkies and such are more a result of bad luck, but the tears strains and briuses (Ian Gold, Terry Pierce, Cole, Mccaffrey) come from those being so tight and combinations like that. Thats why every year we have so many injuries.

That's an interesting theory. But how do you explain our Super Bowl years where we had remarkably few injuries. Same coach, same trainer, same altitude, even some of the same players. And the Broncos didn't seem to have this bad a rash of injuries, in general, under Reeves and he was a believer in more contact during practice than is Shanny.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 12:32 PM
im not entirely sure, but i know muscles need oxygen and denver doesnt have much. It just makes sense cause i went through it too. Never tore anything but then again, i dont train like im in the NFL:)

pikman
11-19-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
I say this because they work so hard in practice and it results in stronger, but more tight muscles that can easily tear or strain. This is combined with the fact there is thin air in Denver muscles are not properly oxygenized (LOL). Some injuries, like broken pinkies and such are more a result of bad luck, but the tears strains and briuses (Ian Gold, Terry Pierce, Cole, Mccaffrey) come from those being so tight and combinations like that. Thats why every year we have so many injuries.

Very interesting theory. Living in Calgary which is also at a higher elevation i don't find the problems being any worse with our athletes like you suggest. Also I don't see the Colorado Avalanche or Rockies having an inordinate amount of injuries relative to the other teams in their sports. Lets blame it on bad luck. I was of the understanding that it is better to train at elevation because it adapts the body to having less oxygen making it a better machine at lower elevations.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Javalon
That's an interesting theory. But how do you explain our Super Bowl years where we had remarkably few injuries. Same coach, same trainer, same altitude, even some of the same players. And the Broncos didn't seem to have this bad a rash of injuries, in general, under Reeves and he was a believer in more contact during practice than is Shanny. Im sure John Elway didnt train too hard since he was older and the rest of te team was already good. I dont know if they had the sled back then either. Maybe they just beat the odds.

Javalon
11-19-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
im not entirely sure, but i know muscles need oxygen and denver doesnt have much. It just makes sense cause i went through it too. Never tore anything but then again, i dont train like im in the NFL:)

Good point, it's hard to base the NFL player's injuries on our own. It's a whole different playing field, so to speak.

We should write the the Broncos' medical staff and see what their thoughts are on the matter.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Javalon
Good point, it's hard to base the NFL player's injuries on our own. It's a whole different playing field, so to speak.

We should write the the Broncos' medical staff and see what their thoughts are on the matter. do you know how to do that?

Be back later, have to get back to class.

Javalon
11-19-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Im sure John Elway didnt train too hard since he was older and the rest of te team was already good. I dont know if they had the sled back then either. Maybe they just beat the odds.

Well, Elway wasn't always old as a Bronco. Not to mention that he was known for his dedication to his workouts, even in his "older" years.

Plus, if you're referring to the current sled created by Tuten, I think his current model is fairly recent. If it's contributing to injuries, the Broncos should cut it out because it's not worth it.

Here's an articles on "The Beast":

http://www.nwaonline.net/pdfarchive/2003/june/30/6-30-03%20C2.pdf

rascal
11-19-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Javalon
Well, Elway wasn't always old as a Bronco. Not to mention that he was known for his dedication to his workouts, even in his "older" years.

Plus, if you're referring to the current sled created by Tuten, I think his current model is fairly recent. If it's contributing to injuries, the Broncos should cut it out because it's not worth it.

Here's an articles on "The Beast":

http://www.nwaonline.net/pdfarchive/2003/june/30/6-30-03%20C2.pdf

My coaches had something similar to that and I hated that thing. It kicked our butt everytime we used it.

bronx_2003
11-19-2003, 01:04 PM
what other teams do you like to watch when denver are not on? i think the titans and rams are good to watch

AsianOrange
11-19-2003, 01:11 PM
I enjoy watching the Seahawks, Panthers,Jaguars and I like watching the Bills..

I think Seattle has something cool going because I believe in Matt Hasselbeck

The Panthers has the coolest uniforms

The Jaguars (and I forgived them for 96) because I think that is going to be the team to watch in the next 2 years

and the Bills because I like Drew Bledsoe.

bronx_2003
11-19-2003, 02:56 PM
yeah, i think the jags are the team to watch for next season but they are in a very tough division. i was just wondering, does anyone know how to get a picture put in below your name???

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by pikman
Very interesting theory. Living in Calgary which is also at a higher elevation i don't find the problems being any worse with our athletes like you suggest. Also I don't see the Colorado Avalanche or Rockies having an inordinate amount of injuries relative to the other teams in their sports. Lets blame it on bad luck. I was of the understanding that it is better to train at elevation because it adapts the body to having less oxygen making it a better machine at lower elevations. Hockey and baseball dont train as hard as football where everythig is stregth. they dont work as hard and broncos overwork themselves (new sled device) so the muscles are so tight, they cant stretch and instead tear. I cant blame it on luck anymore its been 3 years in a row. They need to double the amount of time they stretch or something keep it loose.

TXBRONC
11-19-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by broncos4ever
Why do you say this? Most of the major injuries have occured in games and some of them have just been freak injuries on special teams.

Gold was injured on punt return coverage. I know his speed is real asset, but might be better to use Sykes and Spragan on all the special teams units.

Javalon
11-19-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by TXBRONC
Gold was injured on punt return coverage. I know his speed is real asset, but might be better to use Sykes and Spragan on all the special teams units.

It seems that you can't just plug anybody into the special teams and have success. The Broncos have paid the price for using some of their starters on special teams but they did it because they felt the other players weren't as good.

What I wonder is how big a discrepancy is there between players like Gold and Sykes on special teams. Is Gold just a little better or quite a bit better? Where do you draw the line between risking a starter on special teams and having lesser talent on special teams? I guess that's why the coaches get paid the big bucks.

Return of Lava
11-19-2003, 09:07 PM
to follow up a little more on Gold, did you notice that he tore his ACL on the 2ND return attempt? that means maybe his first was regular but then he already ran down the field once and was tired, breathing, trying to get oxygen in his system, but becasue of the thin air, the second time his body/leg didnt respond and as a result.....i dont know it just is making more sense the more i think about it i was just kidding at first LOL.

Javalon
11-19-2003, 09:20 PM
I don't know, man. Sometimes injuries just happen by having body parts bend in ways their not supposed to.

Until I see some stats showing that the Broncos suffer more injuries long-term than other teams, I won't buy into high altitude being a factor. I really think the past few seasons have just been bad luck.

Mudcat
11-19-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
I say this because they work so hard in practice and it results in stronger, but more tight muscles that can easily tear or strain. This is combined with the fact there is thin air in Denver muscles are not properly oxygenized (LOL). Some injuries, like broken pinkies and such are more a result of bad luck, but the tears strains and briuses (Ian Gold, Terry Pierce, Cole, Mccaffrey) come from those being so tight and combinations like that. Thats why every year we have so many injuries.

Lava, you make an interesting hypothesis about altitude, tight muscles and injuries. However, there is no medical research to back up that idea. If anything, high altitude training gives the Broncos an advantage over teams that train at lower altitudes and play at Mile High. This is because the body adapts by increasing the O2 carrying capacity in the blood to meet the demands of less O2 in the air. Therefore, one might expect greater fatigue among players of opposing teams. On the road, at lower altitudes, the Broncos have no advantage because 02 is more abundant. Muscles don't get tighter because of lack of O2. Injuries to ACLs, are due to forces on the knee joint that exceed the strength of the ligament that supports the joint. Although fatigue could play a factor, you can't train to strengthen ligaments. So injuries that occur are more likely due to chance. There is no statitical proof that Denver has more injuries than teams from lower elevations. Look at New England. There is however, research that shows ligaments can be weakened by steroid use. Wish I knew the answer for Denvers rash of injuries. It seems it's just bad luck.

TXBRONC
11-19-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Javalon
It seems that you can't just plug anybody into the special teams and have success. The Broncos have paid the price for using some of their starters on special teams but they did it because they felt the other players weren't as good.

What I wonder is how big a discrepancy is there between players like Gold and Sykes on special teams. Is Gold just a little better or quite a bit better? Where do you draw the line between risking a starter on special teams and having lesser talent on special teams? I guess that's why the coaches get paid the big bucks.

I think the biggest reason that Gold was on Special Teams was because of his speed. Certainly, Sykes and Spragan don't have his speed but I think they would be alright. Spragan covered kick offs last season so he has experience. Keith Burns is on Special Teams and he's the slowest Linebacker on the team, if fact as you probably already know that how Keith has made his living in the pros. I also agree this is why the coaches are paid the big bucks to make these kinds of decisions.

ramyac
11-20-2003, 02:22 PM
Hello my name is Nick and I was at the Bronco vs. Chargers game last week. Had a great time!! Adding to
the fun was the fact that I was on T.V.. Apparently
on of the T.V. announcers made a comment about the
leather helmet that I was wearing. I would really like
to get a VCR recording of the game. Can anyone help?
Thanks, Nick

email ramyac@ris.net

ReasonableChief
11-20-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Mudcat
Lava, you make an interesting hypothesis about altitude, tight muscles and injuries. However, there is no medical research to back up that idea. If anything, high altitude training gives the Broncos an advantage over teams that train at lower altitudes and play at Mile High. This is because the body adapts by increasing the O2 carrying capacity in the blood to meet the demands of less O2 in the air. Therefore, one might expect greater fatigue among players of opposing teams. On the road, at lower altitudes, the Broncos have no advantage because 02 is more abundant. Muscles don't get tighter because of lack of O2. Injuries to ACLs, are due to forces on the knee joint that exceed the strength of the ligament that supports the joint. Although fatigue could play a factor, you can't train to strengthen ligaments. So injuries that occur are more likely due to chance. There is no statitical proof that Denver has more injuries than teams from lower elevations. Look at New England. There is however, research that shows ligaments can be weakened by steroid use. Wish I knew the answer for Denvers rash of injuries. It seems it's just bad luck.

Damn ... you take all the fun out of that argument. LOL

Return of Lava
11-20-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Mudcat
Lava, you make an interesting hypothesis about altitude, tight muscles and injuries. However, there is no medical research to back up that idea. If anything, high altitude training gives the Broncos an advantage over teams that train at lower altitudes and play at Mile High. This is because the body adapts by increasing the O2 carrying capacity in the blood to meet the demands of less O2 in the air. Therefore, one might expect greater fatigue among players of opposing teams. On the road, at lower altitudes, the Broncos have no advantage because 02 is more abundant. Muscles don't get tighter because of lack of O2. Injuries to ACLs, are due to forces on the knee joint that exceed the strength of the ligament that supports the joint. Although fatigue could play a factor, you can't train to strengthen ligaments. So injuries that occur are more likely due to chance. There is no statitical proof that Denver has more injuries than teams from lower elevations. Look at New England. There is however, research that shows ligaments can be weakened by steroid use. Wish I knew the answer for Denvers rash of injuries. It seems it's just bad luck. The part about muscle tightness i give that to the fact that the broncos are one of the hardest working teams and dont stretch long enough. you are right though, i dont have any facts or numbers to support it i was just throwing it out there for response. Who knows, maybe i'm the first one to notice then people will study it and find out its true.