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broncodanny
08-05-2005, 05:16 PM
I was at practice today and let me say that Ron Dayne was a standout. He looked like the Dayne of old running for wisconsin. I think he has a shot at starting this year.


Who do you think should start?

2 Minute Warning
08-05-2005, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the review.

Calif. Bronco
08-05-2005, 06:14 PM
I also welcome you. :beer: You pose a great question, but IMO it is a little premature. Ask me again a month from now.

topscribe
08-05-2005, 06:17 PM
BTW, welcome to the boards. :beer:

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ColRockies_5
08-05-2005, 06:52 PM
Thanks for the review.

How come I didn't get a :beer: to welcome me when I first came to the board? :mad:

topscribe
08-05-2005, 07:04 PM
How come I didn't get a :beer: to welcome me when I first came to the board? :mad:
I didn't either. Anyway, welcome to the boards! :beer:

(Better late than never, even though I did join after you did.)

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EMCF
08-05-2005, 07:14 PM
I didn't either. Anyway, welcome to the boards! :beer:

(Better late than never, even though I did join after you did.)

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When I joined all I got was RC calling me a 'noob'.

topscribe
08-05-2005, 08:08 PM
When I joined all I got was RC calling me a 'noob'.
That sounds good enough! :P

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JRWIZ
08-05-2005, 09:09 PM
How come I didn't get a :beer: to welcome me when I first came to the board? :mad:

Have you tried scope?

Ravage!!!
08-05-2005, 09:11 PM
When I joined all I got was RC calling me a 'noob'.

ahah. yeah.. thats RC alright

rcsodak
08-05-2005, 10:17 PM
When I joined all I got was RC calling me a 'noob'.

You're welcome......... :beer:





ahah. yeah.. thats RC alright
Hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em....and, as usual....I was 100000% correct, was I not? :coffee: :P

Reidman
08-06-2005, 03:57 AM
I said this in another thread. I don't think it matters who wins the starting job out of camp and pre season. The third or fourth week of the regular season is when Griffin will take over as the featured back for the Broncos.

I think you've got your sights set a little high there BigBones :goofy:

super_boltz
08-06-2005, 04:51 AM
I didn't either. Anyway, welcome to the boards! :beer:

(Better late than never, even though I did join after you did.)

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Hey I didn't either but when I came on I was talking consistent smack on an opposing board so that prolly had tons to do with it ha. :-) Goooo Chargers..... Super_Boltz in 05! :beer: oh and welcome to the board guys.

topscribe
08-06-2005, 07:40 AM
Hey I didn't either but when I came on I was talking consistent smack on an opposing board so that prolly had tons to do with it ha. :-) Goooo Chargers..... Super_Boltz in 05! :beer: oh and welcome to the board guys.
Maybe the problems is you root for the Chargers. :cheeky:

:P

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diesel51
08-06-2005, 09:37 AM
I find it disheartening that someone of your caliber would be rooting for Q. It almost makes me not want to root for Q. I am as big a Q fan here as anybody, but reality is starting to sink in for me, and maybe it should for you too.

Q doesn't match the Broncos running style.
He is coming off a major RB injury, especially for his style of running.
Ahead of him on the Depth chart is Tatum and MA.
Dayne has looked good enough for Mike Shannahan to publically state it.
Shannahan hasn't said much of anything about Q, who he was once high on.
Clarrett has played well in training camp.

I hope Q makes the team; that's my hope. But most importantly, I hope we, as Broncos, succeed this year. To come out and say that he is going to be starting by week 4 or 5, is absurd. That means either you are hoping or counting on one of two things to happen:
1)Starting RB goes down with injury, as well as all RBs ahead of Q on the depth chart, or
2)Our running game is ineffective, so Shannahan decides to shake it up some.

Either way, those two scenarios do not help the Broncos succeed.

BroncoRT
08-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Even though we have some annoying Dayne Homers, I still like him better than Q. Maybe Dayne will make the team, I don't know if he will start. I just hope that Clarett will get to #3 by the beginning of the year, and prep him to be the horse next year. :coffee:

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 11:23 AM
I find it disheartening that someone of your caliber would be rooting for Q. It almost makes me not want to root for Q. I am as big a Q fan here as anybody, but reality is starting to sink in for me, and maybe it should for you too.

Q doesn't match the Broncos running style.
He is coming off a major RB injury, especially for his style of running.
Ahead of him on the Depth chart is Tatum and MA.
Dayne has looked good enough for Mike Shannahan to publically state it.
Shannahan hasn't said much of anything about Q, who he was once high on.
Clarrett has played well in training camp.

I hope Q makes the team; that's my hope. But most importantly, I hope we, as Broncos, succeed this year. To come out and say that he is going to be starting by week 4 or 5, is absurd. That means either you are hoping or counting on one of two things to happen:
1)Starting RB goes down with injury, as well as all RBs ahead of Q on the depth chart, or
2)Our running game is ineffective, so Shannahan decides to shake it up some.

Either way, those two scenarios do not help the Broncos succeed.

Here is where I can agree with Big bones.

Pray tell what is this running style, a hole opens or it does not. If there is no hole and last year after they changed RD from the blocking back to the RB and changed stuff up our running game became effective.

Johnson became the primary FB and RD went from ineffective FB to a pretty good RB, I have always wondered how they thought a 208 RB could be an effective blocking back. Especaily when he probabaly really wanted a chance at being said RB.

Granted Q is down the list as wfar as RB's are concerned . But if a hole does not open NO ONE can go through it.

Q's downfall last year was
He played against some of the best Running Defenses @ that particular time in the year.
He had a 207-9 pound blocking back infront of him.
The Oline was still getting to know each other.
They tried pounding Q up the gut way to much to prove to the world that the Broncs could run on anyone. JAX game was the clincher trying to run at TWO all pro DT's stupid regardless of who was @ RB. Not with our undersized Oline. Plain stupid! Mikeys EGO ran amuck on this one.
After Q was hurt (ankle) in his last part of the last game, they revamped, brought in different FB and changed the play calling. To his credit RD proved to be a better RB than FB, until he just ran out of gas 6-7 games later.

Can't be a FB at less than 210 LBs.

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 11:27 AM
I have to agree w/D.51. Q does not bring alot to the starting rb role. If he is starting by wk 4 like bigbones wishes for that means some real good rb's went down with a injury. At best he is a 3rd down back that may run the screen, or some kind of one back draw. He is a liability to the protection of the QB. If a screen or draw is not called and he can't get out on his check down route due to the blitz he will get run over by the lb. and our qb will get hit right in the mouth and they will be taking him off in a golf cart,or worse. On the other hand if he gets in space he is good, he makes someone miss then he gets pummled and fumbles. And to all those who may feel that I am hating on the little bug I am not. Just calling them like I see them.

bcbronc
08-06-2005, 11:31 AM
Here is where I can agree with Big bones.

Pray tell what is this running style, a hole opens or it does not. If there is no hole and last year after they changed RD from the blocking back to the RB and changed stuff up our running game became effective.

Johnson became the primary FB and RD went from ineffective FB to a pretty good RB, I have always wondered how they thought a 208 RB could be an effective blocking back. Especaily when he probabaly really wanted a chance at being said RB.

Granted Q is down the list as wfar as RB's are concerned . But if a hole does not open NO ONE can go through it.

Q's downfall last year was
He played against some of the best Running Defenses @ that particular time in the year.
He had a 207-9 pound blocking back infront of him.
The Oline was still getting to know each other.
They tried pounding Q up the gut way to much to prove to the world that the Broncs could run on anyone. JAX game was the clincher trying to run at TWO all pro DT's stupid regardless of who was @ RB. Not with our undersized Oline. Plain stupid! Mikeys EGO ran amuck on this one.
After Q was hurt (ankle) in his last part of the last game, they revamped, brought in different FB and changed the play calling. To his credit RD proved to be a better RB than FB, until he just ran out of gas 6-7 games later.

Can't be a FB at less than 210 LBs.


is this deja vu....
....or a broken record

:coffee:

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 12:16 PM
BCBronco 1st of all I am not hating just want to try and clear some things up that you said. You must not know a lot about football schemes. Here is a football 101 refresher course for you. Since MS. has been the head coach they have been a zone blocking team. Two o-line work on 1 d-line to the scrape lb. some of the LM like the T.end sometimes have to block the man by themselves depending on where he lines up. on the back side..the side from where the play is called...usually end up cutting somebody to the groud,thus creating cutback lanes for the back...mix that in w/the QB on the bootleg to keep the backside DE from chasing the play down....because the Broncos send those 208lb fullbacks at first threat playside...the sam linebacker(ROMO) or the play side saftey they DO NOT NEED TO BE 245lbs. All zone blocking teams do is to try and get people moving sideways instead of downhill,stay ingaged with a man and give your back a two way out...more then 1 choice of where to go. I hope this helps you understand what the Broncos do 99.99% of the time...same scheme that won 2 SUPPERBOWLS. The thing that hurts zone blocking schemes the most is when people get to much penatration into the offensive side of the los. The broncos don't care who lines up on them they will zone them to death...as far as MS goes he didn't fumble little bug did. its easier to sit up there in your armchair and rip the coach for what happened...I to was upset with that game...not for the call but for the fumble....and you are 100% correct when RD switched to tailback theyt got better...you need a good rb in this scheme to be successful. And if I stand corrected did'nt RD block for a guy named Portis???????? And if you payed close enough attention to the play calling not much changed..zone rt or zone lft.

bcbronc
08-06-2005, 12:22 PM
BCBronco 1st of all I am not hating just want to try and clear some things up that you said. You must not know a lot about football schemes. Here is a football 101 refresher course for you. Since MS. has been the head coach they have been a zone blocking team. Two o-line work on 1 d-line to the scrape lb. some of the LM like the T.end sometimes have to block the man by themselves depending on where he lines up. on the back side..the side from where the play is called...usually end up cutting somebody to the groud,thus creating cutback lanes for the back...mix that in w/the QB on the bootleg to keep the backside DE from chasing the play down....because the Broncos send those 208lb fullbacks at first threat playside...the sam linebacker(ROMO) or the play side saftey they DO NOT NEED TO BE 245lbs. All zone blocking teams do is to try and get people moving sideways instead of downhill,stay ingaged with a man and give your back a two way out...more then 1 choice of where to go. I hope this helps you understand what the Broncos do 99.99% of the time...same scheme that won 2 SUPPERBOWLS. The thing that hurts zone blocking schemes the most is when people get to much penatration into the offensive side of the los. The broncos don't care who lines up on them they will zone them to death...as far as MS goes he didn't fumble little bug did. its easier to sit up there in your armchair and rip the coach for what happened...I to was upset with that game...not for the call but for the fumble....and you are 100% correct when RD switched to tailback theyt got better...you need a good rb in this scheme to be successful. And if I stand corrected did'nt RD block for a guy named Portis???????? And if you payed close enough attention to the play calling not much changed..zone rt or zone lft.

are you sure you meant me?

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 12:33 PM
BCBronco I stand corrected please forgive my error. When I read it I thought it was you. I am sorry for calling the wrong person out. JRhampton was the one it was meant for.

DiehardinAlaska
08-06-2005, 01:15 PM
The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.

kristian824
08-06-2005, 01:18 PM
I didn't either. Anyway, welcome to the boards! :beer:

(Better late than never, even though I did join after you did.)

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you can remeber that many posts ago??? lol

are you coming up for a game tops?

kristian824
08-06-2005, 01:22 PM
I hope the guy does well. Hell, i hope they all do well. We need some trading power!

You know he looked really good last preseason and ended up doing nothing.

I just hope it was because of his situation in NY. He's always said he should be a feature back.....

kristian824
08-06-2005, 01:25 PM
The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.

Hitting the hole takes experience. That's why I think he'll do better after this season.

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 02:31 PM
I have to agree w/D.51. Q does not bring alot to the starting rb role. If he is starting by wk 4 like bigbones wishes for that means some real good rb's went down with a injury. At best he is a 3rd down back that may run the screen, or some kind of one back draw. He is a liability to the protection of the QB. If a screen or draw is not called and he can't get out on his check down route due to the blitz he will get run over by the lb. and our qb will get hit right in the mouth and they will be taking him off in a golf cart,or worse. On the other hand if he gets in space he is good, he makes someone miss then he gets pummled and fumbles. And to all those who may feel that I am hating on the little bug I am not. Just calling them like I see them.


First of all please do all us old timers a favor and break your comments into smaller paragraphs. Really hard to read the way it is.. Thanks.

Q is perhap the top blocker in pass protection we have, ranks next to MA in his blocking so I don't think that to be an issue.

With the caliber of the backs we have in camp Q's chances of starting are slim, but as a running back is alot more exciting than MA ever will be.

Will he recover from his devistating knee injury? I don't know. But given the same BLOCKERs that the other backs have or have had, there is NO reason he could not start if healed for this team. Might not have the same blazing speed that tater has or the same bullishness that MA or Big MO might have but given the same circumstances with blocking and play calling as the others there is not reason he could not be as good if not better than the others.

Time will tell whether he is fully healed or when he will be fully healed from the ACL and meniscus tear. I'd guess not till mid year, if ever. I'll leave that for MIkey and the doctors to decide.

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 03:00 PM
The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.



I agree about everthing you said, but last year it was not Q that was at fault.

The holes were not there for him to hit.

THey tried running at I repeat AT the strong point of in JAX defense their TWO ALLPRO DT's not smart. Especailly with a Oline still trying to remember the persons name that is next to them.

You never ever run AT the defenses strongest point. That is football 101.

Look at what we did playing the packers in the SB got fatass gilbert brown running sidleines to sidleines by the 3 qrter he was about to die. Would have taken 4 guys to haul his fat gut off the field.

We did not have the horsepower at the point of attack to move these guys. Sure there was dancing behind the LOS when you are staring at the backsides of you own Oline with no hole he had nothing to do but dance. COupled with playing a 207 pound RB as a full back or blocking back whatever you wish to call RD is stupid. I watched thse tape a thousand times when Q tried to run he was in most cases trying to follow a FB that was getting blown back intop the hole by a LB or DE. Mikey in his arrogance decided to prove his point. He kept trying to run up the gut ( if I remember correctly over 60% at the DT's) when the only plays that were remotely working were the off tackle, around end wide stuff. The mix was not good and if you want to look at it is well documented on this sight. When they went wide the results were considerably better than at the DT.

This same issue has been argued to death since last year.

There is no reason that given the same blockers and scheme that Q can't run just as effecetively than the others. This he did not have last year.

However I will say if Big MO gets started he will be a force to reckon with, while I like MA just don't think he is a long term solution and think and always have thought that tater is a flake. Dane, time will tell if he starts ok by me I just don't really care because it is the team I'm routing for. Would Q bring somemore excitment to the running game you bet it would.

BroncoRT
08-06-2005, 03:56 PM
I agree about everthing you said, but last year it was not Q that was at fault.

The holes were not there for him to hit.

THey tried running at I repeat AT the strong point of in JAX defense their TWO ALLPRO DT's not smart. Especailly with a Oline still trying to remember the persons name that is next to them.

You never ever run AT the defenses strongest point. That is football 101.

Look at what we did playing the packers in the SB got fatass gilbert brown running sidleines to sidleines by the 3 qrter he was about to die. Would have taken 4 guys to haul his fat gut off the field.

We did not have the horsepower at the point of attack to move these guys. Sure there was dancing behind the LOS when you are staring at the backsides of you own Oline with no hole he had nothing to do but dance. COupled with playing a 207 pound RB as a full back or blocking back whatever you wish to call RD is stupid. I watched thse tape a thousand times when Q tried to run he was in most cases trying to follow a FB that was getting blown back intop the hole by a LB or DE. Mikey in his arrogance decided to prove his point.
He kept trying to run up the gut ( if I remember correctly over 60% at the DT's) when the only plays that were remotely working were the off tackle, around end wide stuff. The mix was not good and if you want to look at it is well documented on this sight. When they went wide the results were considerably better than at the DT.

This same issue has been argued to death since last year.

There is no reason that given the same blockers and scheme that Q can't run just as effecetively than the others. This he did not have last year.

However I will say if Big MO gets started he will be a force to reckon with, while I like MA just don't think he is a long term solution and think and always have thought that tater is a flake. Dane, time will tell if he starts ok by me I just don't really care because it is the team I'm routing for. Would Q bring somemore excitment to the running game you bet it would.

That's why I want them to run more pitches, tosses and sweeps like the days with TD.

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 07:09 PM
Jr I Hope This Is Big Enough For You To Read. Sorry For Not Double Spacing My Reply, But I Am Not Writing A Term Paper. Lol....you Got Part Of It Right With Gilbert Brown Same Thing Applies To Whoever You Play...as A Coach You Do Not Go Away From What You Do Best, If That Was The Case They Never Would Of Had G. Brown Sideline To Sideline.


I Recall G.brown Dominated 16 Plus Games That Year Till The S.bowl. You Need To Have Faith In You Scheme And The Men Who Are Running It. As Far As Your Analogy Of Football 101 You Still Do Not Get The Big Picture (scheme) And Once Again I Am Not Hating On You...



Let Me Ask You This...if You Think Little Bug Is The Best The Broncos Have In Protection That Means He Is Taking On 245lb Lbs. And Winning..yet All You Have To Do Is Get A Hand On Him And He Goes Down..the Two Do Not Equate. As Far As Your Statement About The Dancing In The Backfield...a Back Is Only As Good As His O-line Is Till He Gets To The Second Level....(thats Where The Lb.s Play) Then Thats What Seperates Them...not Talking About Payton Or Sanders.


As Far As The Same Blockers (that Would Be The O-line) And The Plays They Were The Same. A Coach Is Not Going To Put Plays In For One Back Then Change The Scheme For Another. And I Hate To Tell You This But In The Nfl Their Players Are As Good As Our Players If They Were Not Then It Would Not Be The Nfl

Bronco Plays Are Not Going To Work All Of The Time..just Like Their Def. Is Not Going To Stop The Broncos All The Time ...and For Your Info When A Fb Can't Get Through The Los Don't Say He Is To Small...the O-line Just Had Its A@# Handed To It. 240lb Fullbacks Have A Hard Time Blocking A 300lb Man. I Do Agree It Is All About The Team...and Believe Me Coaches Don't Call Plays Because Of Their Arrogance You Get Fired To Fast..you Call It Because You Have Faith.


Sorry To All For The Term Paper Folks Just Trying To Educate So, So Many Hate For No Reason. If You Think You Can Do A Better Job Then Ms Get Your Teaching Degree,go Into Coaching, Don't See Your Kids For A Period Of Time And Try And Fill His Shoes...good Luck

rcsodak
08-06-2005, 07:12 PM
I have to agree w/D.51. Q does not bring alot to the starting rb role. If he is starting by wk 4 like bigbones wishes for that means some real good rb's went down with a injury. At best he is a 3rd down back that may run the screen, or some kind of one back draw. He is a liability to the protection of the QB. If a screen or draw is not called and he can't get out on his check down route due to the blitz he will get run over by the lb. and our qb will get hit right in the mouth and they will be taking him off in a golf cart,or worse. On the other hand if he gets in space he is good, he makes someone miss then he gets pummled and fumbles. And to all those who may feel that I am hating on the little bug I am not. Just calling them like I see them.

You a 'horns fan?

rcsodak
08-06-2005, 07:24 PM
[size=1]
Jr I Hope This Is Big Enough For You To Read. Sorry For Not Double Spacing My Reply, But I Am Not Writing A Term Paper. Lol....you Got Part Of It Right With Gilbert Brown Same Thing Applies To Whoever You Play...as A Coach You Do Not Go Away From What You Do Best, If That Was The Case They Never Would Of Had G. Brown Sideline To Sideline.

I Recall G.brown Dominated 16 Plus Games That Year Till The S.bowl. You Need To Have Faith In You Scheme And The Men Who Are Running It. As Far As Your Analogy Of Football 101 You Still Do Not Get The Big Picture (scheme) And Once Again I Am Not Hating On You...

Let Me Ask You This...if You Think Little Bug Is The Best The Broncos Have In Protection That Means He Is Taking On 245lb Lbs. And Winning..yet All You Have To Do Is Get A Hand On Him And He Goes Down..the Two Do Not Equate. As Far As Your Statement About The Dancing In The Backfield...a Back Is Only As Good As His O-line Is Till He Gets To The Second Level....(thats Where The Lb.s Play) Then Thats What Seperates Them...not Talking About Payton Or Sanders.

As Far As The Same Blockers (that Would Be The O-line) And The Plays They Were The Same. A Coach Is Not Going To Put Plays In For One Back Then Change The Scheme For Another. And I Hate To Tell You This But In The Nfl Their Players Are As Good As Our Players If They Were Not Then It Would Not Be The Nfl

Bronco Plays Are Not Going To Work All Of The Time..just Like Their Def. Is Not Going To Stop The Broncos All The Time ...and For Your Info When A Fb Can't Get Through The Los Don't Say He Is To Small...the O-line Just Had Its A@# Handed To It. 240lb Fullbacks Have A Hard Time Blocking A 300lb Man. I Do Agree It Is All About The Team...and Believe Me Coaches Don't Call Plays Because Of Their Arrogance You Get Fired To Fast..you Call It Because You Have Faith.

Sorry To All For The Term Paper Folks Just Trying To Educate So, So Many Hate For No Reason. If You Think You Can Do A Better Job Then Ms Get Your Teaching Degree,go Into Coaching, Don't See Your Kids For A Period Of Time And Try And Fill His Shoes...good Luck..[/size=1]

I believe, in your essay, you are missing jr's point.
In the beginning of the season, denver had a 'rookie' RT and a LT playing the position for the first time. THAT, in itself, takes some time to recover from, and gelling between the players to occur.

By the time RD was the rb, and following a fb ranging in size from 240-280 lbs, they had 4 games to learn their positions, and gel with each other.

Maybe this is Football 303.....for the upperclassmen...... ;)

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 07:26 PM
rcsodac...no I am not a horns fan CU 1st. then the U of Miami then the SEC in general

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:27 PM
I agree about everthing you said, but last year it was not Q that was at fault.

The holes were not there for him to hit.

THey tried running at I repeat AT the strong point of in JAX defense their TWO ALLPRO DT's not smart. Especailly with a Oline still trying to remember the persons name that is next to them.

You never ever run AT the defenses strongest point. That is football 101.

Look at what we did playing the packers in the SB got fatass gilbert brown running sidleines to sidleines by the 3 qrter he was about to die. Would have taken 4 guys to haul his fat gut off the field.

We did not have the horsepower at the point of attack to move these guys. Sure there was dancing behind the LOS when you are staring at the backsides of you own Oline with no hole he had nothing to do but dance. COupled with playing a 207 pound RB as a full back or blocking back whatever you wish to call RD is stupid. I watched thse tape a thousand times when Q tried to run he was in most cases trying to follow a FB that was getting blown back intop the hole by a LB or DE. Mikey in his arrogance decided to prove his point. He kept trying to run up the gut ( if I remember correctly over 60% at the DT's) when the only plays that were remotely working were the off tackle, around end wide stuff. The mix was not good and if you want to look at it is well documented on this sight. When they went wide the results were considerably better than at the DT.

This same issue has been argued to death since last year.

There is no reason that given the same blockers and scheme that Q can't run just as effecetively than the others. This he did not have last year.

However I will say if Big MO gets started he will be a force to reckon with, while I like MA just don't think he is a long term solution and think and always have thought that tater is a flake. Dane, time will tell if he starts ok by me I just don't really care because it is the team I'm routing for. Would Q bring somemore excitment to the running game you bet it would.


But JR.. the probem with this is.... Shanahan has proven time and time and time AGAIN that he DOES know how to coach football. He has put player after player in the line-up, and gotten 1300 yrds... two RoY awards with his running backs... yet somehow, YOU are saying that Mike doesn't know how to call a running game against Jacksonville, yet you do??? This doesn't hold water. To me it appears that HE is the one that knows what he's doing, and you are just guessing from behind the TV screen... OR... making excuses for Q.

I don't really know much about MO. I really REALLY liked what I saw from Tatum last year. He hit the hole HARD and fast.. he was breaking tackles.. and falling forward. I've also loved everything he has said so far, as well as the worth ethic he has displayed to try and make himself the best running back he can. I just don't get my hopes high for MC until he can show he can show he can play after 2 years out of football. He has a lot of learning and maturing to do. I hope we found a gem..but I truly believe that Tatum is explosive.

GuitarJ
08-06-2005, 07:29 PM
Jr I Hope This Is Big Enough For You To Read. Sorry For Not Double Spacing My Reply, But I Am Not Writing A Term Paper. Lol....you Got Part Of It Right With Gilbert Brown Same Thing Applies To Whoever You Play...as A Coach You Do Not Go Away From What You Do Best, If That Was The Case They Never Would Of Had G. Brown Sideline To Sideline.


I Recall G.brown Dominated 16 Plus Games That Year Till The S.bowl. You Need To Have Faith In You Scheme And The Men Who Are Running It. As Far As Your Analogy Of Football 101 You Still Do Not Get The Big Picture (scheme) And Once Again I Am Not Hating On You...



Let Me Ask You This...if You Think Little Bug Is The Best The Broncos Have In Protection That Means He Is Taking On 245lb Lbs. And Winning..yet All You Have To Do Is Get A Hand On Him And He Goes Down..the Two Do Not Equate. As Far As Your Statement About The Dancing In The Backfield...a Back Is Only As Good As His O-line Is Till He Gets To The Second Level....(thats Where The Lb.s Play) Then Thats What Seperates Them...not Talking About Payton Or Sanders.


As Far As The Same Blockers (that Would Be The O-line) And The Plays They Were The Same. A Coach Is Not Going To Put Plays In For One Back Then Change The Scheme For Another. And I Hate To Tell You This But In The Nfl Their Players Are As Good As Our Players If They Were Not Then It Would Not Be The Nfl

Bronco Plays Are Not Going To Work All Of The Time..just Like Their Def. Is Not Going To Stop The Broncos All The Time ...and For Your Info When A Fb Can't Get Through The Los Don't Say He Is To Small...the O-line Just Had Its A@# Handed To It. 240lb Fullbacks Have A Hard Time Blocking A 300lb Man. I Do Agree It Is All About The Team...and Believe Me Coaches Don't Call Plays Because Of Their Arrogance You Get Fired To Fast..you Call It Because You Have Faith.


Sorry To All For The Term Paper Folks Just Trying To Educate So, So Many Hate For No Reason. If You Think You Can Do A Better Job Then Ms Get Your Teaching Degree,go Into Coaching, Don't See Your Kids For A Period Of Time And Try And Fill His Shoes...good Luck
What's up with all the caps?.....very hard to read. :eek:

topscribe
08-06-2005, 07:31 PM
is this deja vu....
....or a broken record

:coffee:
I find, bcbronc, that sometimes you need to repeat, repeat, and repeat facts some more. I do it, and I get criticized for it.

And you know what? I do it anyway.

:coffee:

-----

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 07:59 PM
Jr I Hope This Is Big Enough For You To Read. Sorry For Not Double Spacing My Reply, But I Am Not Writing A Term Paper. Lol

Let Me Ask You This...if You Think Little Bug Is The Best The Broncos Have In Protection That Means He Is Taking On 245lb Lbs. And Winning..yet All You Have To Do Is Get A Hand On Him And He Goes Down..the Two Do Not Equate.

As Far As Your Statement About The Dancing In The Backfield...a Back Is Only As Good As His O-line Is Till He Gets To The Second Level....(thats Where The Lb.s Play) Then Thats What Seperates Them...not Talking About Payton Or Sanders.


As Far As The Same Blockers (that Would Be The O-line) And The Plays They Were The Same. A Coach Is Not Going To Put Plays In For One Back Then Change The Scheme For Another. And I Hate To Tell You This But In The Nfl Their Players Are As Good As Our Players If They Were Not Then It Would Not Be The Nfl

Bronco Plays Are Not Going To Work All Of The Time..just Like Their Def. Is Not Going To Stop The Broncos All The Time ...and For Your Info When A Fb Can't Get Through The Los Don't Say He Is To Small...the O-line Just Had Its A@# Handed To It. 240lb Fullbacks Have A Hard Time Blocking A 300lb Man. I Do Agree It Is All About The Team...and Believe Me Coaches Don't Call Plays Because Of Their Arrogance You Get Fired To Fast..you Call It Because You Have Faith.


Sorry To All For The Term Paper Folks Just Trying To Educate So, So Many Hate For No Reason. If You Think You Can Do A Better Job Then Ms Get Your Teaching Degree,go Into Coaching, Don't See Your Kids For A Period Of Time And Try And Fill His Shoes...good Luck

Well thanks for the paragraphs now we need to works on the CAPS. t would have been easier to read except the caps. Now its just annoying.

Lest go over this one by one.

Q is along with MA the best QB protector we had on the squad last year, tater was not. Having a low center fo gravity helps him in the matter his strength is more than most think just because someone is short does not make them weak.

As for going down with just ahnd one him yes there were a few tackles that way but show me a RB that does not have the same thing happen from time to time.

Q's "dancing" was done in the backfield when there were NO holes in the middle. Not past the LOS. Having a 207# FB trying to block is ludicrus sp. RD was consistantly in the JAX game getting his head handed to him.

Almost anyone in front of a TV saw that the Running game in JAX was not working up the gut like 60+% of the plays were going. Why Mikey could not is beyond me. Perhaps he had visions of Gilbert Brown dancing in his head.


See rcsodaks post above for newbies on the O-line getting to KNOW each other.

Please note the judicous use of capital letters. term paper it is not but trust me your credibilty is judged here, by the way you write.

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 10:51 PM
jr what type of response do you want, I typed in all caps so you could read it sorry if I made you feel bad... not, you sound like the Sr. English teacher who hates coaches and athletes. you talk like you really know the game. lets talk credibility...coached for 17 years, granted at the high school level...what credibility do you bring to this board?????notice how you speew the same boring crap on your posts...you don't know the A gap from your C gap, you like to blame coaches for the mistakes of others...coaches don't control what happens on a given play the players do... as far as running inside on the zone(by know you should know what that is) it is a base play...you keep running it because you saw somthing on tape that said you could.


ever spent a whole week breaking down another team??? didn't think so...another thing that tells the board you don't know s#$% from shinola(sp) is you said the bug and MA were the best in protection last year. Protection is not a used con#$m...they were hurt all of last year so tell me how good they were...can't do it... as for the bug dancing in the backfield don't hate on a FB blame the o-line ,newbies or not they play in the NFL


And for the end of this rant...sorry board...read what ravage wrote about your football knowledge. thanks ravage for the common sense.. and jr if I am boring you with what you don't understand about the game, I am sorry. We have a common goal...D-Broncos playing in the S.Bowl

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 04:08 PM
jr what type of response do you want, I typed in all caps so you could read it sorry if I made you feel bad... not, you sound like the Sr. English teacher who hates coaches and athletes. you talk like you really know the game. lets talk credibility...coached for 17 years, granted at the high school level...what credibility do you bring to this board?????notice how you speew the same boring crap on your posts...you don't know the A gap from your C gap, you like to blame coaches for the mistakes of others...coaches don't control what happens on a given play the players do... as far as running inside on the zone(by know you should know what that is) it is a base play...you keep running it because you saw somthing on tape that said you could.


ever spent a whole week breaking down another team??? didn't think so...another thing that tells the board you don't know s#$% from shinola(sp) is you said the bug and MA were the best in protection last year. Protection is not a used con#$m...they were hurt all of last year so tell me how good they were...can't do it... as for the bug dancing in the backfield don't hate on a FB blame the o-line ,newbies or not they play in the NFL


And for the end of this rant...sorry board...read what ravage wrote about your football knowledge. thanks ravage for the common sense.. and jr if I am boring you with what you don't understand about the game, I am sorry. We have a common goal...D-Broncos playing in the S.Bowl

Picky picky picky.

1. I'm glad you were a coach that means you should know what you are talking about.

Ravage did indeed talk about Mikey being a good coach, I agree, I have almost always stated this in my posts.

I do have to question, as did almost everyone else did after the game last year the continued running up the gut, because it was plain to everyone but him, that was not working.

Now, I just have 50 some years in watching the game, while not a coach, I did play through High school. I have spent hours in the past breaking down Bronco game film, Broadcast Tapes. Now I may not have your level of expertise, but I know what I see.

While the terminlogy might have changed a block is a block and a hole is a hole. There is either a block and a hole to run through or there is not.

It did not take a genuis to see that the up the gut stuff, while it might have been there ON FILM was not there during the game.

Great coaches make adjustments, Egotisical coaches continue, bash the heads of the RB's into the non-exsitant holes.



2. At the begining of the year Q was the best QB protector we had, tater could not block his grandma, RD was not a RB at the time.

I used the term Q and MA because they were the best at it and although MA was on IR and Q wound up on IR that was one of the reasons I would think that Q wound up as the starter in games 1-4. Along with his knowledge of the playbook and his performance the year before.

Now I'm not sure why you have hardon for Q and frankly don't care.

Your half hearted attempts at trying to discredit me have failed.

Use the quote button if you truly have something you'd like to quote me on. Read the post well before you jump to conclusions in what I say. I be happy to clairify any question that you might have.

Your cutesy remarks "s#$% from shinola" really have no place on this board, I ask you not to use them as they are a COC voilation.

bcbronc
08-07-2005, 06:55 PM
]

I do have to question, as did almost everyone else did after the game last year the continued running up the gut, because it was plain to everyone but him, that was not working.

While the terminlogy might have changed a block is a block and a hole is a hole. There is either a block and a hole to run through or there is not.

It did not take a genuis to see that the up the gut stuff, while it might have been there ON FILM was not there during the game.

Great coaches make adjustments, Egotisical coaches continue, bash the heads of the RB's into the non-exsitant holes.

again, jr, the game plan worked well enough to win. one botched handoff, something that happens very rarely and just happened to happen at the worst time possible, is the only reason we lost the game.



I used the term Q and MA because they were the best at it and although MA was on IR and Q wound up on IR that was one of the reasons I would think that Q wound up as the starter in games 1-4. Along with his knowledge of the playbook and his performance the year before.

q wound up the starter because tatum held out and then broke his little pinky fingy and MA was groinless.



of more relevance to this thread, ron dayne sure has been a pleasant surprise and makes our depth at tailback look that much better. he's looking good from all accounts and, at this point, would seem to be on the verge of making the team.

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 07:28 PM
again, jr, the game plan worked well enough to win. one botched handoff, something that happens very rarely and just happened to happen at the worst time possible, is the only reason we lost the game.

q wound up the starter because tatum held out and then broke his little pinky fingy and MA was groinless.

of more relevance to this thread, ron dayne sure has been a pleasant surprise and makes our depth at tailback look that much better. he's looking good from all accounts and, at this point, would seem to be on the verge of making the team.

We actually lost 7-6. But our offense moved pretty good with the pass.

While most of your points are valid I think the biggest reason we lost the game was ST play they allowed a Realllllllllly big run back to our 38 (I think) yard line.

JAX had a whooping 176 yards ALL DAY (I think). Our defense had to defend 38 yards to keep them out of the EZ. Up to that point and there after they were superb. But the ST put them in such a hole and the momentum changed at least for that series and they scored their ONLY POINTS of the game on that series. Most of the rest of the day they ventured into DEN territory (I think) ONLY ONCE.

IMHO the ST cost us that game.

Q and Jake blotching the hand off or Elam missing a longish chip shot, did not help, but it was the 7 points that killed us.

txsbronco
08-07-2005, 08:02 PM
Picky picky picky.

1. I'm glad you were a coach that means you should know what you are talking about.

Ravage did indeed talk about Mikey being a good coach, I agree, I have almost always stated this in my posts.

I do have to question, as did almost everyone else did after the game last year the continued running up the gut, because it was plain to everyone but him, that was not working.

Now, I just have 50 some years in watching the game, while not a coach, I did play through High school. I have spent hours in the past breaking down Bronco game film, Broadcast Tapes. Now I may not have your level of expertise, but I know what I see.

While the terminlogy might have changed a block is a block and a hole is a hole. There is either a block and a hole to run through or there is not.

It did not take a genuis to see that the up the gut stuff, while it might have been there ON FILM was not there during the game.

Great coaches make adjustments, Egotisical coaches continue, bash the heads of the RB's into the non-exsitant holes.



2. At the begining of the year Q was the best QB protector we had, tater could not block his grandma, RD was not a RB at the time.

I used the term Q and MA because they were the best at it and although MA was on IR and Q wound up on IR that was one of the reasons I would think that Q wound up as the starter in games 1-4. Along with his knowledge of the playbook and his performance the year before.

Now I'm not sure why you have hardon for Q and frankly don't care.

Your half hearted attempts at trying to discredit me have failed.

Use the quote button if you truly have something you'd like to quote me on. Read the post well before you jump to conclusions in what I say. I be happy to clairify any question that you might have.

Your cutesy remarks "s#$% from shinola" really have no place on this board, I ask you not to use them as they are a COC voilation.

jr thanks for the qoute info....as for were a coach it is still a coach and it's not pay to play... the part 1 reply has very good points...where do you get broadcast tapes????and is there a endzone copy????...you are right all coaches do make adjustments but you don't draw stuff up in the dirt and expect the players to make it work...there is only so much time to prepare for the other team, even in the nfl.


as for point # 2 Q was the only rb with game time so thats a mute point...as far as trying to discredit you, you have done that to yourself, all I did was point it out.
JR I don't have a (sensor) for Q, but you must...and my cutesy remarks wern't meant to be cute....just call-em like I see them....and if a bunch of !@##$%% are a violation then you need to turn yourself in to big brother for what you said.

mrsolo
08-07-2005, 08:39 PM
lets talk credibility...coached for 17 years, granted at the high school level...what credibility do you bring to this board?????notice how you speew the same boring crap on your posts...you don't know the A gap from your C gap, you like to blame coaches for the mistakes of others...coaches don't control what happens on a given play the players do... as far as running inside on the zone(by know you should know what that is) it is a base play...you keep running it because you saw somthing on tape that said you could.


ever spent a whole week breaking down another team??? didn't think so...another thing that tells the board you don't know s#$% from shinola(sp) is you said the bug and MA were the best in protection last year. Protection is not a used con#$m...they were hurt all of last year so tell me how good they were...can't do it... as for the bug dancing in the backfield don't hate on a FB blame the o-line ,newbies or not they play in the NFL


And for the end of this rant...sorry board...read what ravage wrote about your football knowledge. thanks ravage for the common sense.. and jr if I am boring you with what you don't understand about the game, I am sorry. We have a common goal...D-Broncos playing in the S.Bowl

First off...."coach" aren't the gaps usually numbered, not lettered with the 1 and 2 gap being on either side of the center.....3 and 4 being between guard and tackle....etc. There is no reason to attack someone here because they are not a coach. This is a Denver Broncos FAN FORUM!! That means that my next door neighbor's grandma or my bosses granddaughter, neither of who have ever played organized football, much less coached, can join this board and discuss the Broncos if the so choose. You're not impressing anyone by trying to talk down jr.

The fact that you call Quentin Griffin "bug" is very disparaging, and I'd bet my savings account that you wouldn't call him that to his face. He IS A BRONCO. Whether or not you want him to start or feel he can do so, you should support him if you are a true fan. If he had serious character flaws, held out and missed camp, slapped your momma, then I could understand you not liking him and childishly calling him names. IF you are a true Broncos fan, get off his back and hope he can contribute as long as he's on the roster.

Judging by your nick I might assume that you're a Longhorn fan, which could mean that just the mention of the name Quentin Griffin still gives you nightmares.(6 touchdowns in one game in 2000 and 240+ yards in 2002) If that's your problem, you need to learn to let it go.

Not everyone around here agrees with jr, or top, or ravage, or me, but we all have the right to come here and discuss, debate, or just plain cheer for the Broncos. :beer:

mrsolo
08-07-2005, 08:42 PM
[QUOTE=bcbronc][QUOTE

again, jr, the game plan worked well enough to win. one botched handoff, something that happens very rarely and just happened to happen at the worst time possible, is the only reason we lost the game. QUOTE]

As did the fact that we only scored 6 points. I believe Elam missed a field goal that game, so that could be the ONLY reason we lost. Who's to say that if Q hadn't fumbled, we hit the next field goal? Elam missed one, and another bounced off the goalpost and went through, if I remember right.

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 08:50 PM
jr thanks for the qoute info....as for were a coach it is still a coach and it's not pay to play... the part 1 reply has very good points...where do you get broadcast tapes????and is there a endzone copy????...you are right all coaches do make adjustments but you don't draw stuff up in the dirt and expect the players to make it work...there is only so much time to prepare for the other team, even in the nfl.


as for point # 2 Q was the only rb with game time so thats a mute point...as far as trying to discredit you, you have done that to yourself, all I did was point it out.
JR I don't have a (sensor) for Q, but you must...and my cutesy remarks wern't meant to be cute....just call-em like I see them....and if a bunch of !@##$%% are a violation then you need to turn yourself in to big brother for what you said.


I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear BY broadcast I was referring to CBS, Fox ABC, as I tape every game, to watch after the heat of passion has cooled down.

Don't I wish I had copies of the game film, but of course without really knowing what the exact play was called, how much one can really glean from it and grade players would be difficult at best.

While they don't draw plays up in the dirt on the sidline, after 3-5 games have most of there offense installed and have practiced it to some degree.

Just because you put plays into the game plan if something is not working you shift to something that does, that is also in the game plan or has been practiced.

For example the outside runs off tackle or wide pitch did work for almost twice the average yards. I would have ran that, till they countered and then switched back to the inside stuff. I realize that you have to change up to keep the D honest, but we did not run behind our best blocker Lepis that day more than 4 times if memory serves correct. The run left and right off tackle was in the play book. Yet we went up the gut 13-14 times.

Their strength was the pair of all pro DT's. Their DE and Linebacking were not as goood. So why go at the strong point if it is not working? The only reason that makes sense is Mikey was going to prove to the world we could run on them.

Yep your right I'm a baaaad boy for using that term. Should not have done so!

txsbronco
08-07-2005, 09:03 PM
First off...."coach" aren't the gaps usually numbered, not lettered with the 1 and 2 gap being on either side of the center.....3 and 4 being between guard and tackle....etc. There is no reason to attack someone here because they are not a coach. This is a Denver Broncos FAN FORUM!! That means that my next door neighbor's grandma or my bosses granddaughter, neither of who have ever played organized football, much less coached, can join this board and discuss the Broncos if the so choose. You're not impressing anyone by trying to talk down jr.

The fact that you call Quentin Griffin "bug" is very disparaging, and I'd bet my savings account that you wouldn't call him that to his face. He IS A BRONCO. Whether or not you want him to start or feel he can do so, you should support him if you are a true fan. If he had serious character flaws, held out and missed camp, slapped your momma, then I could understand you not liking him and childishly calling him names. IF you are a true Broncos fan, get off his back and hope he can contribute as long as he's on the roster.

Judging by your nick I might assume that you're a Longhorn fan, which could mean that just the mention of the name Quentin Griffin still gives you nightmares.(6 touchdowns in one game in 2000 and 240+ yards in 2002) If that's your problem, you need to learn to let it go.

Not everyone around here agrees with jr, or top, or ravage, or me, but we all have the right to come here and discuss, debate, or just plain cheer for the Broncos. :beer:


first of all mrsolo they are numbered that way...on the defesive side of the ball DUHHH.
2..I never attacked him just pointed things out till he ?ed my credibility...just like you are attacking me. and you are not immpressing me. it is a forum and when people say things that someone does'nt like you type what you feel...just like you.

3 its not a character flaw with Q,(happy now) it is a production,fumble, flaw. And by the way this is a forum and like you said ...I HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOICE MY VIEWS.

4. I am no longhorn fan...in fact i loved it when he ripped them to shreds...but that does'nt mean I think he is the man. you need to let his college days go he was damn good in H.S. and college But he is a 3rd down back in the nfl...sorry to speak my truth...and you are right we all have the right...reread your post before you attack....the reason i call him the bug is when he runs into theline and there is no hole the d-linemen squash him..he has no power to make the possible loss a win....in space,on turf wow...does that help you understand my views on him...I hope he can help out somewhere... by the way where did your H. Trophy winning QB end up????

txsbronco
08-07-2005, 09:06 PM
I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear BY broadcast I was referring to CBS, Fox ABC, as I tape every game, to watch after the heat of passion has cooled down.

Don't I wish I had copies of the game film, but of course without really knowing what the exact play was called, how much one can really glean from it and grade players would be difficult at best.

While they don't draw plays up in the dirt on the sidline, after 3-5 games have most of there offense installed and have practiced it to some degree.

Just because you put plays into the game plan if something is not working you shift to something that does, that is also in the game plan or has been practiced.

For example the outside runs off tackle or wide pitch did work for almost twice the average yards. I would have ran that, till they countered and then switched back to the inside stuff. I realize that you have to change up to keep the D honest, but we did not run behind our best blocker Lepis that day more than 4 times if memory serves correct. The run left and right off tackle was in the play book. Yet we went up the gut 13-14 times.

Their strength was the pair of all pro DT's. Their DE and Linebacking were not as goood. So why go at the strong point if it is not working? The only reason that makes sense is Mikey was going to prove to the world we could run on them.

Yep your right I'm a baaaad boy for using that term. Should not have done so!
jr good post...D!@# good post.out

mrsolo
08-07-2005, 09:07 PM
by the way where did your H. Trophy winning QB end up????

Now why did that have to be said? You're making this personal. Whatever problem you have with Q or OU is your personal problem to deal with. Calling him "the little bug" is childish no matter how you try to explain it.

txsbronco
08-07-2005, 09:21 PM
Now why did that have to be said? You're making this personal. Whatever problem you have with Q or OU is your personal problem to deal with. Calling him "the little bug" is childish no matter how you try to explain it.


if i wanted to get personal i would have said something about you or whatever. I don't have a problem with ou,OR YOUR QB...JUST ASKED A SIMPLE? last i heard he was with the chiefs???

we are both bronco fans??? yes.. just cause i feel that your man from norman is not the answer you attack...and you are right about the nickmane i gave him...let me ask you this ...does he make anyother team in the nfl if denver does not take a chance on him???? now put all you OU loyality aside and think about what i said about what he really brings to the table....calling him the bug is hating...but what I feel about his role is not

mrsolo
08-07-2005, 10:02 PM
if i wanted to get personal i would have said something about you or whatever. I don't have a problem with ou,OR YOUR QB...JUST ASKED A SIMPLE? last i heard he was with the chiefs???

we are both bronco fans??? yes.. just cause i feel that your man from norman is not the answer you attack...and you are right about the nickmane i gave him...let me ask you this ...does he make anyother team in the nfl if denver does not take a chance on him???? now put all you OU loyality aside and think about what i said about what he really brings to the table....calling him the bug is hating...but what I feel about his role is not

Heck yeah he makes another team if Denver lets him go. I've said myself that maybe he doesn't fit the Bronco system. I even started a thread stating that maybe he should be traded. He has a lot of talent, but running up the gut with no hole to be seen is not it. He needs to take care of the ball, that's obvious to anyone who's seen him play. I see him in a role similar to Westbrook in Philly. Not the biggest back in the world, but he's quick, and can catch the ball out of the backfield. Quentin is a good blocker. He's shown that in college and in the NFL. That allows him to be on the field in obvious passing situations both as a blocker and a receiving threat out of the backfield.


I didn't attack you for you're "opinion" of Q. I didn't like how you "attacked" jr and how you disparage Q by childishly calling him names.

bcbronc
08-07-2005, 11:37 PM
[QUOTE]While they don't draw plays up in the dirt on the sidline, after 3-5 games have most of there offense installed and have practiced it to some degree.

Just because you put plays into the game plan if something is not working you shift to something that does, that is also in the game plan or has been practiced.

For example the outside runs off tackle or wide pitch did work for almost twice the average yards. I would have ran that, till they countered and then switched back to the inside stuff. I realize that you have to change up to keep the D honest, but we did not run behind our best blocker Lepis that day more than 4 times if memory serves correct. The run left and right off tackle was in the play book. Yet we went up the gut 13-14 times.

Their strength was the pair of all pro DT's. Their DE and Linebacking were not as goood. So why go at the strong point if it is not working? The only reason that makes sense is Mikey was going to prove to the world we could run on them.QUOTE]

running off tackle and even short pitches can be busted up by a quickly penetrating DT. you have to keep them honest by running up the gut, even if it is not successful, to stop them from shooting gaps and stopping the off tackle stuff for loses.

from the highlights and first hand reports, i think dayne would have had more success against jax than Q did, if for no other reason than him being able to fall forward and get gains for 3-4 instead of 1-2.

bcbronc
08-07-2005, 11:44 PM
[
As did the fact that we only scored 6 points. I believe Elam missed a field goal that game, so that could be the ONLY reason we lost. Who's to say that if Q hadn't fumbled, we hit the next field goal? Elam missed one, and another bounced off the goalpost and went through, if I remember right.

this just that the game plan was good enough to win. if elam hits the field goal who knows how the game goes. obviously shanny felt the broncos d could handle jax offence and knew he had to grind out points against a tough defense on the road.

the game plan was fine, it was the execution that was faulty. not every gameplan is going to be pretty and put up 400 yards of offense.

solo,i think you may feel that i blame Q for this loss. i dont. he managed over 100 yards from the line of scrimmage against a tough d. a couple of routine plays botched were the reasons for the loss. call em bad breaks.

mrsolo
08-08-2005, 07:00 AM
this just that the game plan was good enough to win. if elam hits the field goal who knows how the game goes. obviously shanny felt the broncos d could handle jax offence and knew he had to grind out points against a tough defense on the road.

the game plan was fine, it was the execution that was faulty. not every gameplan is going to be pretty and put up 400 yards of offense.

solo,i think you may feel that i blame Q for this loss. i dont. he managed over 100 yards from the line of scrimmage against a tough d. a couple of routine plays botched were the reasons for the loss. call em bad breaks.

Exactly. I'm by no means defending the fumble. Whether or not it was Q's fault alone or a combo of his and Jake's execution, it was a HUGE mistake. It just wasn't the only play that hurt us. The worst as far as timing goes, yes. It's the last play everyone remembers from that game.

Wisconsinhomer
08-08-2005, 07:03 AM
I was at practice today and let me say that Ron Dayne was a standout. He looked like the Dayne of old running for wisconsin. I think he has a shot at starting this year.


Who do you think should start?
Thank you. See people, I'm not the only one who thinks Dayne will start this year.

diesel51
08-08-2005, 07:55 AM
I wasn't trying to bring up the old "Q vs the other backs" war, I was only stating my percieved facts off my observations and from what I have read.

Reread what I wrote. I LIKE Q!!!! He is my favorite RB on our team for multiple reasons. If I had it my way, I'd like to see him start, on the condition that he, and the Broncos SUCCEED. However, because of other factors, I have my doubts that Q ever reaches those aspirations.

Look at what is conspiring so far in camp. MA is getting the majority of reps with 1st team, with TB getting the rest. Q, MC, and RD(the new RD) are splitting reps with the 2nd team, and I imagine the 3rd team. Q has been slated at #3, with Dayne 4 and Clarrett 5.

Now, all of the runners on our team fit the zone blocking scheme and the 1 cut down hill runner mode, EXCEPT Q. Take a look at Q's runs against KC. It was run left or right, go forward a few yards, go either left or right again, then sprint. That is his style. I love watching that type of running. But it is atypical to a Bronco RB in Shannahan's era.

So, the only way I want Q to start this year, is if he wins the position before the season starts. Otherwise, him taking over the starting position later on means that someone is injured(or more than one someone) or our RB is grounded and the staff is trying something new. Neither of those situations make me happy, nor do they bode well for the Broncos.

So, seriously, think about this.

Does Denver keep 5 RBs? Have they ever kept that many? By keeping 5 RBs that means we lose depth at other key positions(DL, DB, TE, WR). My intution tells me no, that at most we keep 4 RBs.

So who are they going to cut?

MA. No, most experienced RB on the team. Running with the 1st team and seems to have a stranglehold on the position. Only knocks on him is coming off a groin injury and his age.

TB. No, currently listed at #2 and has the 'Portis-like' game breaking ability that coaches like. The only knock on him has been what is being percieved as a lack of gumption by board users who are attending Training Camp.

MC. No, they drafted him to give him a chance and also because they believed they were getting 1st round talent in the 3rd round. He has done nothing to make them regret drafting him. Heck, he has even signed a Bronco friendly contract. They won't put him on practice squad because he would have to clear waivers, and he wouldn't. Knocks on him is he is a rookie who hasn't played football for two years.

RD. Here is where the question lies. He did very well at Wisconsin who ran a similar blocking scheme as the Broncos. He has practiced well enough to earn public praise from Shannahn. If he plays well enough in preseason, the Broncos might take him over Q, because of his running style.

Q. Can he overcome a bad injury? Can he outplay his teammates? Can he gain the trust of his teammates and Shannahan again? I would like to think so, but you cannot go off of your emotions all the time.

Common sense tells me that Q is a casualty cut, unless one of the following things happen.

1.) He begins practicing so well and playing so well in preseason games, that Shannahan moves him to either #1 or #2 RB on depth chart. This could happen if Tatum continues to show lack of gumption as reported by fellow message board users attending camp or if Tatum doesn't display an large enough improvement in his blocking and recieving. I don't know about this one.
2.) Dayne or Clarret play poorly in preseason games, so poorly that Shannahan would rather have a known than the unknown come real game time.
3.) Injuries that occur during training camp or preseason games requires that the Broncos need the depth at RB and Q stays.

I hope you guys now know where I am coming from, and not that I want to start a huge Q versus the world fight.

mrsolo
08-08-2005, 08:47 AM
I wasn't trying to bring up the old "Q vs the other backs" war, I was only stating my percieved facts off my observations and from what I have read.

Reread what I wrote. I LIKE Q!!!! He is my favorite RB on our team for multiple reasons. If I had it my way, I'd like to see him start, on the condition that he, and the Broncos SUCCEED. However, because of other factors, I have my doubts that Q ever reaches those aspirations.

Look at what is conspiring so far in camp. MA is getting the majority of reps with 1st team, with TB getting the rest. Q, MC, and RD(the new RD) are splitting reps with the 2nd team, and I imagine the 3rd team. Q has been slated at #3, with Dayne 4 and Clarrett 5.

Now, all of the runners on our team fit the zone blocking scheme and the 1 cut down hill runner mode, EXCEPT Q. Take a look at Q's runs against KC. It was run left or right, go forward a few yards, go either left or right again, then sprint. That is his style. I love watching that type of running. But it is atypical to a Bronco RB in Shannahan's era.

So, the only way I want Q to start this year, is if he wins the position before the season starts. Otherwise, him taking over the starting position later on means that someone is injured(or more than one someone) or our RB is grounded and the staff is trying something new. Neither of those situations make me happy, nor do they bode well for the Broncos.

So, seriously, think about this.

Does Denver keep 5 RBs? Have they ever kept that many? By keeping 5 RBs that means we lose depth at other key positions(DL, DB, TE, WR). My intution tells me no, that at most we keep 4 RBs.

So who are they going to cut?

MA. No, most experienced RB on the team. Running with the 1st team and seems to have a stranglehold on the position. Only knocks on him is coming off a groin injury and his age.

TB. No, currently listed at #2 and has the 'Portis-like' game breaking ability that coaches like. The only knock on him has been what is being percieved as a lack of gumption by board users who are attending Training Camp.

MC. No, they drafted him to give him a chance and also because they believed they were getting 1st round talent in the 3rd round. He has done nothing to make them regret drafting him. Heck, he has even signed a Bronco friendly contract. They won't put him on practice squad because he would have to clear waivers, and he wouldn't. Knocks on him is he is a rookie who hasn't played football for two years.

RD. Here is where the question lies. He did very well at Wisconsin who ran a similar blocking scheme as the Broncos. He has practiced well enough to earn public praise from Shannahn. If he plays well enough in preseason, the Broncos might take him over Q, because of his running style.

Q. Can he overcome a bad injury? Can he outplay his teammates? Can he gain the trust of his teammates and Shannahan again? I would like to think so, but you cannot go off of your emotions all the time.

Common sense tells me that Q is a casualty cut, unless one of the following things happen.

1.) He begins practicing so well and playing so well in preseason games, that Shannahan moves him to either #1 or #2 RB on depth chart. This could happen if Tatum continues to show lack of gumption as reported by fellow message board users attending camp or if Tatum doesn't display an large enough improvement in his blocking and recieving. I don't know about this one.
2.) Dayne or Clarret play poorly in preseason games, so poorly that Shannahan would rather have a known than the unknown come real game time.
3.) Injuries that occur during training camp or preseason games requires that the Broncos need the depth at RB and Q stays.

I hope you guys now know where I am coming from, and not that I want to start a huge Q versus the world fight.

Put em up.....put em up. :fight: LOL I see exactly where you are coming from. It's basically Q vs Dayne and/or Clarrett to make the roster. Last year even after the injury I didnt' think making the roster is a question. But now, especially if Dayne and Clarrett impress during the preseason games it's gonna be tough for Q. I think he has a lot to offer as an NFL running back. It just may not be here. Who knows. I love the Broncos and would love to see him stay and be successful, but at the same time I want the best for both the Broncos and for Q. If it means they part ways, good luck.

Peerless
08-08-2005, 08:52 AM
Right now, I really don't care who starts. I just want a running game that will take over a game to help the passing game out.

mrsolo
08-08-2005, 08:56 AM
Right now, I really don't care who starts. I just want a running game that will take over a game to help the passing game out.

Exactly!!!! :beer:

topscribe
08-10-2005, 05:54 PM
jr what type of response do you want, I typed in all caps so you could read it sorry if I made you feel bad... not, you sound like the Sr. English teacher who hates coaches and athletes. you talk like you really know the game. lets talk credibility...coached for 17 years, granted at the high school level...what credibility do you bring to this board?????notice how you speew the same boring crap on your posts...you don't know the A gap from your C gap, you like to blame coaches for the mistakes of others...coaches don't control what happens on a given play the players do... as far as running inside on the zone(by know you should know what that is) it is a base play...you keep running it because you saw somthing on tape that said you could.


ever spent a whole week breaking down another team??? didn't think so...another thing that tells the board you don't know s#$% from shinola(sp) is you said the bug and MA were the best in protection last year. Protection is not a used con#$m...they were hurt all of last year so tell me how good they were...can't do it... as for the bug dancing in the backfield don't hate on a FB blame the o-line ,newbies or not they play in the NFL


And for the end of this rant...sorry board...read what ravage wrote about your football knowledge. thanks ravage for the common sense.. and jr if I am boring you with what you don't understand about the game, I am sorry. We have a common goal...D-Broncos playing in the S.Bowl
I am a former high school English teacher who loves coaches and athletes. In fact, I played college level football. Having said that, I for the life of me cannot fathom why you would go to the trouble of all those keystrokes to capitalize every word in a sentence.

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mrsolo
08-10-2005, 06:06 PM
I am a former high school English teacher who loves coaches and athletes. In fact, I played college level football. Having said that, I for the life of me cannot fathom why you would go to the trouble of all those keystrokes to capitalize every word in a sentence.

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! :goofy:

24zone
08-15-2005, 09:42 PM
I caught some of the Texans game today, and Dayne performed well, looks lighter and quicker. I think he's got a great shot at it. Bell needs to stop losing the ball, and prove he's a tough inside runner. I think Clarrett and Dayne will really push for 1st string.

broncodanny
08-15-2005, 10:13 PM
go ron dayne.... feed the pigsking to the fat man all day long

BroncoRT
08-16-2005, 08:47 AM
I caught some of the Texans game today, and Dayne performed well, looks lighter and quicker. I think he's got a great shot at it. Bell needs to stop losing the ball, and prove he's a tough inside runner. I think Clarrett and Dayne will really push for 1st string.

If Bell fumbles in the next few pre-season games, he will drop on the DC like an anchor. No matter how fast you are or how high the potential, you can't give the ball away, especially with Plummer at QB.

The fumbles, wasn't that the knock on Bell when he was drafted? :coffee:

Calif. Bronco
08-16-2005, 09:19 AM
No matter how fast you are or how high the potential, you can't give the ball away, especially with Plummer at QB.

I would think someone who fumbles a lot will find the bench or the unemployment line pretty darn quick no matter who the QB is
:coffee:

starx5
08-18-2005, 11:24 AM
I was at practice today and let me say that Ron Dayne was a standout. He looked like the Dayne of old running for wisconsin. I think he has a shot at starting this year.


Who do you think should start?
I think dayne should be given the chance to start agaist the rams and show he can run against the 1st team the same way he ran against the back ups.and clarrett should be released his a cry baby and will never be one of the bronco greats if he keeps being this way

starx5
08-18-2005, 11:27 AM
I caught some of the Texans game today, and Dayne performed well, looks lighter and quicker. I think he's got a great shot at it. Bell needs to stop losing the ball, and prove he's a tough inside runner. I think Clarrett and Dayne will really push for 1st string.
dayne has a very good chance but clarrett may not even make the team

Perry1977
08-18-2005, 01:02 PM
I am a former high school English teacher who loves coaches and athletes. In fact, I played college level football. Having said that, I for the life of me cannot fathom why you would go to the trouble of all those keystrokes to capitalize every word in a sentence.

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I THINK THE BOARDS DO THAT IF SOMEONE TYPES A POST IN ALL CAPS. :D


Edit: Guess not!! LOL! :laugh:

24zone
08-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Regarding Clarett, I see him as a bigger, more athletic Olandis Gary, or a lighter Dayne. If he stays healthy, keeps a good attitude, holds on to the ball and learns the offense, he will push for the starting job. I think Q will be the one on the cutting block, due to durability issues, and that Bell can fill for that change of pace back.

JRWIZ
08-21-2005, 08:33 PM
Regarding Clarett, I see him as a bigger, more athletic Olandis Gary, or a lighter Dayne. If he stays healthy, keeps a good attitude, holds on to the ball and learns the offense, he will push for the starting job. I think Q will be the one on the cutting block, due to durability issues, and that Bell can fill for that change of pace back.


From superspeed stud to change of pace back! MY how the tater tots are bailing off the tater wagon.

24zone
08-21-2005, 08:37 PM
From superspeed stud to change of pace back! MY how the tater tots are bailing off the tater wagon.



Bell's got the ability to be a pro bowler, but hes not there yet. I'm still pullin' for him.

arapaho
08-22-2005, 07:47 AM
From superspeed stud to change of pace back! MY how the tater tots are bailing off the tater wagon.



funny......but true i wonder how many of these die hard tator heads have completly forgot he was the savior of the broncos

topscribe
08-22-2005, 10:49 AM
From superspeed stud to change of pace back! MY how the tater tots are bailing off the tater wagon.
That's what happens when people get onto a given player's bandwagon before camp even begins, and without reading up on the respective players in the readily available media.

Still, as I mentioned in another thread, there is no question Tater can run the ball. It would seem his blocking is the outstanding issue between him and MA. What do you think?

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BANJOPICKER1
08-22-2005, 11:41 AM
From superspeed stud to change of pace back! MY how the tater tots are bailing off the tater wagon.

Are you from Idaho??I saw a tater wagon last time i was in Idaho i think,course i was drinking,,but thats besides the point...

GOOOOOOOOOOO TATER WAGONS,,I MEAN,,BRONCOS!!!

JRWIZ
08-22-2005, 12:50 PM
funny......but true i wonder how many of these die hard tator heads have completly forgot he was the savior of the broncos


But he was #2 draft choice and therefore was going to be the saviour of the franchise now that poorti$$$ was gone.

Almost everyone got on the wagon forgoing the existing RB's we had. Speed is a killer, everything else was forgotten.

Football is a basic game. Blocking and tackling. Everyone of the squad has to be able to do both along with their particular talents, running with, catching or throwing the ball.

As most know I like Q for many reasons, humble, talented, almost shy to a fault, but because of his lack of size he had to be better at the game that everyone else that was taller, heavier or faster.

I just want whoever is best at running the ball to do it. If it is Q great if not we need the best RB on the field in order to succeed.

JRWIZ
08-22-2005, 12:55 PM
That's what happens when people get onto a given player's bandwagon before camp even begins, and without reading up on the respective players in the readily available media.

Still, as I mentioned in another thread, there is no question Tater can run the ball. It would seem his blocking is the outstanding issue between him and MA. What do you think?

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YEP!
I agree from what I have seen and heard. Perhaps hanging on to the ball fits in here also. Heard he has coughed it up a few times in practice. Seems to be tentative . Because I did not see the game, nor have I read much about it I really don't know if that area has been fixed.

topscribe
08-22-2005, 01:36 PM
YEP!
I agree from what I have seen and heard. Perhaps hanging on to the ball fits in here also. Heard he has coughed it up a few times in practice. Seems to be tentative . Because I did not see the game, nor have I read much about it I really don't know if that area has been fixed.
Tater didn't get much of an opportunity to catch a pass. He did badly miss two blocks, one that resulted in a blocked punt. However, Shanny said the guy who blocked the punt has a habit of doing that and is one of the best ST players in the league, so that kind of player will beat you on occasion. Still, I believe Bell needs to improve dramatically in blocking if he expects to overtake MA for the starting position.

I could be wrong, but that is my take.

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JRWIZ
08-22-2005, 02:50 PM
Tater didn't get much of an opportunity to catch a pass. He did badly miss two blocks, one that resulted in a blocked punt. However, Shanny said the guy who blocked the punt has a habit of doing that and is one of the best ST players in the league, so that kind of player will beat you on occasion. Still, I believe Bell needs to improve dramatically in blocking if he expects to overtake MA for the starting position.

I could be wrong, but that is my take.

------


Why would they have that speed, blocking in the back field? Seems like a waste of talent to me. Get him out in the gunner position get him down field covering punts.

That makes sense to me!

topscribe
08-22-2005, 03:04 PM
Why would they have that speed, blocking in the back field? Seems like a waste of talent to me. Get him out in the gunner position get him down field covering punts.

That makes sense to me!
Well, the running back's responsibilities do not just comprise blocking, of course. They have to run, too. It's just that there are plays where the RB is expected to block, and at that time he had better do it. I remember back when Otis Armstrong sat on the bench in favor of inferior (to him) runners because he had such a hard time blocking. The same will happen to Tater unless he works his butt off to improve that facet of his game.

At that point, yes, make him useful, even if it is on STs.

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24zone
08-22-2005, 03:24 PM
I think he needs to prove he can hold on to the ball and run tough inside...even before talking about blocking...but agreed, he needs work there as well.
I think Shanny may run more double tight forms, and going with a single back makes sense with MA.

DAYNETRAYNE
08-23-2005, 12:12 AM
I think he needs to prove he can hold on to the ball and run tough inside...even before talking about blocking...but agreed, he needs work there as well.
I think Shanny may run more double tight forms, and going with a single back makes sense with MA.

listen all these guys are great backs(dayne ,ma, bell)tey all are gonna get playing time during the season. put i truly believe dayne will get the majority of the carries, because he will punish defenders and they will get tired of tackling him and he will eventually wear them down.

NJBRONCOSFAN
08-23-2005, 04:31 AM
Ron Dayne has looked like a stud every preseason.

DAYNETRAYNE
08-23-2005, 07:24 AM
Ron Dayne has looked like a stud every preseason.

yes ron dayne has look like a stud every season, and it has been agaist the 1st teamers,whille he was with the giants.when it came to the regular season he was the opening day starter,scored a touchdown vs. the eagles last year, but his carries declined...............why? the schemewasnt built for him but he still could have got the job done in NY, but he was never given a fair shot....

NJBRONCOSFAN
08-23-2005, 08:04 AM
yes ron dayne has look like a stud every season, and it has been agaist the 1st teamers,whille he was with the giants.when it came to the regular season he was the opening day starter,scored a touchdown vs. the eagles last year, but his carries declined...............why? the schemewasnt built for him but he still could have got the job done in NY, but he was never given a fair shot....
About 600 carries says he did get a shot in NY...too bad he couldn't muster up anything better than a 3.5 average per carry.
He wasn't the opening day starter by any stretch....he had about 45 yards on 13 carries in that first game, while tiki had over 100 on 9 carries.
The following week he had 9 carries for 12 yards...the week after that 9 for 36 yards....if he showed that sort of production in the first three games with the broncos and we stopped using him, would you say he didn't get a fair shot?

mrsolo
08-23-2005, 08:12 AM
About 600 carries says he did get a shot in NY...too bad he couldn't muster up anything better than a 3.5 average per carry.
He wasn't the opening day starter by any stretch....he had about 45 yards on 13 carries in that first game, while tiki had over 100 on 9 carries.
The following week he had 9 carries for 12 yards...the week after that 9 for 36 yards....if he showed that sort of production in the first three games with the broncos and we stopped using him, would you say he didn't get a fair shot?

LOL :duh:

DAYNETRAYNE
08-23-2005, 08:52 AM
About 600 carries says he did get a shot in NY...too bad he couldn't muster up anything better than a 3.5 average per carry.
He wasn't the opening day starter by any stretch....he had about 45 yards on 13 carries in that first game, while tiki had over 100 on 9 carries.
The following week he had 9 carries for 12 yards...the week after that 9 for 36 yards....if he showed that sort of production in the first three games with the broncos and we stopped using him, would you say he didn't get a fair shot?

as u can see his carries declined. give this man the ball and he will produce. also the ny running scheme is not the way denver's is run....trust me he will put all doubters to rest this season. cause the denver running game mirrors the same sheme he ran for 7000+ in WISC.....he needs carries and he will punish defenders and wear the defense down......and he was the opening day starter against philly, last year....

Peerless
08-23-2005, 09:45 AM
How was ron dayne starting ahead of pro-bowler tiki barber?
As far as punishing defenders, maybe he did in college, but he never has in the nfl.
The question is, why did the Giants waist a talent pick when they had Tiki.

DAYNETRAYNE
08-23-2005, 09:50 AM
How was ron dayne starting ahead of pro-bowler tiki barber?
As far as punishing defenders, maybe he did in college, but he never has in the nfl.

yes dayne started the first game of the reg.season last year. tom coughlin started him game 1 vs. philly....after that tiki went on and started the rest of the season,b/c he fitted the running stlye the giants have, cutbacks and screens.......i said if u give dayne the ball 20-25 game he will punish defenders and wear them down, yes in the nfl, but u have to feed him the ball.

HaroldWoods41SS
08-23-2005, 11:53 AM
any one else get this sick feeling that ron dayne will be the starting back by the end of the year?????????????????

DAYNETRAYNE
08-23-2005, 12:12 PM
:beer:
any one else get this sick feeling that ron dayne will be the starting back by the end of the year?????????????????

i got the feeling as well,he will be the man in denver. nottaking anything away from MA or Bell, but dayne seems to be the best fit. but ovarall they all compliment each other well, whosever in there, the running game will be unstoppable.

Cugel
08-23-2005, 12:43 PM
That's what happens when people get onto a given player's bandwagon before camp even begins, and without reading up on the respective players in the readily available media.

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You're right about that! I predicted over the winter that Mike Anderson would compete for the starting job and might win it, and was told that he would be cut/traded by June! :laugh:

You don't hear any of those people talking now!

Ron Dayne will be the #3 back and if there are injuries he'll have the chance to move up, maybe even start. Shanahan just said that "you can't have too many good backs" again today (citing Rueben Droghns move off of FB to starting TB).

I would think the Broncos will keep 5 RBs as they did last year, but with Cecil Sapp moving to FB I don't know how that plays out, since he could switch back to TB in an emergency.

I would like to see them cut Clarett and keep Todd Devoe instead at WR. Clarett looked to be headed to IR, but made a quick recovery from injury once he saw he was headed for the waiver wire and now he's going to play in the final game.

That won't be enough to win a spot on the roster unless he just cuts loose for about 100+ yards and a couple of TDs or something, which I doubt. Maybe Shanahan will take a chance of cutting him and then re-signing him to the practice squad. At this point, I doubt any other team would be so eagar to sign him. They can read about his injury and attitude problems as well as the next guy so I think now that he'll clear waivers. If not, well. . . so what? What's he shown so far to make anyone think he'll be great anyway? :coffee: