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View Full Version : Jake up to his old tricks....



Shanahanaramjam
08-06-2005, 04:56 PM
I've watched every day of camp highlights. Is it me or is Jake Plummer throwing pick after pick after pick? This guy will never shake this tag! Long year ahead if he keeps this shi* up.

OrangeShadow
08-06-2005, 05:00 PM
Its training camp relax

Shanahanaramjam
08-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Doesnt matter. The guy has to stop.

Southstander
08-06-2005, 05:15 PM
I agree, Plummer is the King of the INT

bronx_2003
08-06-2005, 05:32 PM
some ppl :duh:

:coffee:

2 Minute Warning
08-06-2005, 06:06 PM
:eek: First game is not that far off!! ;) :huh:

Maybe he is doing it on purpose...lol.j/k

silkamilkamonic
08-06-2005, 06:16 PM
some ppl :duh:

:coffee:


Normally I would agree with you considering it's only training camp, but serioulsy, has Jake ever shown the ability to not throw an interception?

Shanahanaramjam
08-06-2005, 06:33 PM
Ummm, No! That is what I mean.

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Normally I would agree with you considering it's only training camp, but serioulsy, has Jake ever shown the ability to not throw an interception?


2003 when he had exprienced receivers to catch the ball unlike the rookies last year. Who managed to tip 4-7 picks away on there own.

2 Minute Warning
08-06-2005, 06:42 PM
Normally I would agree with you considering it's only training camp, but serioulsy, has Jake ever shown the ability to not throw an interception?

To be honest yes, he has thrown more than his fair share unfortunately :huh:
Elway had some bad years also.....which he got through and overcame.

Southstander
08-06-2005, 06:45 PM
Lets look on bright side my Jake did improve, but our Defense is just that much better :goofy:

Shanahanaramjam
08-06-2005, 06:46 PM
Message to Jake: Get your Fu**ing game up and pull the string out of your a**! Lets go!

broncofan303
08-06-2005, 06:59 PM
Shanny always says it..you play how you practice... and with Jake it is exactly the same ole...

BVP has looked like crap too, man if he throws it right, it's a pick, if he doesn' throw it right, it goes 10 yards over the WR's head...this guy seriously doesn't belong in the NFL, I'm not saying that cuz I don't like the guy but I've been to camp like 6 times and everytime I've seen him he's gone like 2-11 every day..when he does complete the 2 passes, the fans erupt, really annoying...why didn't people give Q this much props? I guess people like to root for punks!

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:04 PM
2003 when he had exprienced receivers to catch the ball unlike the rookies last year. Who managed to tip 4-7 picks away on there own.

*marks those 4-7(?) down*.. ok.. so.... what about the other 140?

rcsodak
08-06-2005, 07:04 PM
I've watched every day of camp highlights. Is it me or is Jake Plummer throwing pick after pick after pick? This guy will never shake this tag! Long year ahead if he keeps this shi* up.

You DO realize that the defense is TOLD of the plays ahead of time, right? :duh:

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:05 PM
Uhmm.. most of the time they aren't told of the plays that are going to be run.... if they did, the defense wouldn't get much of a work out.

BUT... although I do NOT take this thread seriously..because its only training camp.. it did make me laugh when I read it.

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 07:16 PM
For Your Info All The Plays Are Scripted And Most Dc.s Script Off Of What The Oc Does That Way The Dc Can See How His Guys React To Certian Plays...when They Break The Game Film Down They Do The Same Thing When Playing Another Team. Sorry For The Caps

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:18 PM
okay..........but I don't think this helped out. :confused:

rcsodak
08-06-2005, 07:29 PM
*marks those 4-7(?) down*.. ok.. so.... what about the other 140?

So Jake had over 140 int's last year?

No wonder ya'll are belly aching...... :coffee:

sbutk
08-06-2005, 07:34 PM
Sorry For The Caps


So... I don't get it, then. You just felt compelled to type that way, or what?


:confused:

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 07:34 PM
*marks those 4-7(?) down*.. ok.. so.... what about the other 140?

I was talking about 2003.

Yo Rav I know you have a woodie for Jake. But frankly, I don't care about his time in PHX. I'm concerned with his time in DEN one superb year one grat year with alot of Picks some bad throws some not. It is for you to decide in your own mind good or bad.

Mikey has aleady made the decision about him being our QB for 2005!

You get off Jakes ass and I"ll get off lelies, deal?

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:34 PM
So Jake had over 140 int's last year?

No wonder ya'll are belly aching...... :coffee:

No... but I thought as long as we were going to start making excuses.. then we should start by making excuses for all his other 140 INTs while we were at it.

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 07:41 PM
I was talking about 2003.

Yo Rav I know you have a woodie for Jake. But frankly, I don't care about his time in PHX. I'm concerned with his time in DEN one superb year one grat year with alot of Picks some bad throws some not. It is for you to decide in your own mind good or bad.

Mikey has aleady made the decision about him being our QB for 2005!

You get off Jakes ass and I"ll get off lelies, deal?

Hey.. I've said time and time again that Jake is good enough to win as long as we surround him with good talent. I'm just not going to blow smoke and try to say that he's more than just an average QB that needs good surrounding talent to succeed. Other than that, I'm not on Jake's ass. I just don't fall for the making excuses for him stuff that so many around here like to do. The tipped INTs have gone from 3-4..to 4-5...to 4-7. You may not care about his time in Pheonix, because its easy to want to use Pheonix as an excuse for his lack of success there. Thats cool. But please. Enough with blaming the wind, the fans, the WRs age, the "wanting to win", the taking it upon his shoulders, or the height of the opposing LBs .. as excuses for Jake's INTs. ALLLLL QBs have to deal with the SAME situations, and personel problems, and defenses that Jake does. If he didn't throw 20 INTs in 62.5% of his career, then there wouldn't be a concern about him throwing them. But he has. Until he breaks that trend, that habit, or that pattern.. there will ALWAYS be a concern about Jake's INTs. I just don't like the excuses given to certain players for their lack of success. Whether it's Q or its Jake.

JRWIZ
08-06-2005, 08:20 PM
Hey.. I've said time and time again that Jake is good enough to win as long as we surround him with good talent. I'm just not going to blow smoke and try to say that he's more than just an average QB that needs good surrounding talent to succeed. Other than that, I'm not on Jake's ass. I just don't fall for the making excuses for him stuff that so many around here like to do. The tipped INTs have gone from 3-4..to 4-5...to 4-7. You may not care about his time in Pheonix, because its easy to want to use Pheonix as an excuse for his lack of success there. Thats cool. But please. Enough with blaming the wind, the fans, the WRs age, the "wanting to win", the taking it upon his shoulders, or the height of the opposing LBs .. as excuses for Jake's INTs. ALLLLL QBs have to deal with the SAME situations, and personel problems, and defenses that Jake does. If he didn't throw 20 INTs in 62.5% of his career, then there wouldn't be a concern about him throwing them. But he has. Until he breaks that trend, that habit, or that pattern.. there will ALWAYS be a concern about Jake's INTs. I just don't like the excuses given to certain players for their lack of success. Whether it's Q or its Jake.


When surrounded by good players in 2003 his picks were down significantly 7 if I remember as compared to 15-16 TD's 2-1 ratio. I could be wrong here in the numbers but without looking them up I think pretty close.

Last year he had as I said 4-7 passes that the receivers had their hands on and they bounced off the SAN game was one of them 3 of the 4 if I remember correctly.

If the WR had have held on to all of those passes the season may have been different. All but perhaps one of those passes hit the receivers square in the hands. Didn't have to stretch way out for them, just square on the money and they were tipped. The only one that was high and glanced off was the one in the endzone off Rods finger tips. 9 times out of ten he makes that catch.

He did not have that problem in 2003 when he had a decent RB, all pro TE and Eddie mac. But when replaced by Putz that had all of 7 catches prior to last year, Watts who is a rookie (now we find out about him being almost one handed) and a mulitude of RB's Q, tater, RD, Hape and Carswell.

Perhaps it was not quite the exprienced receivers we would like for him to throw to. All he can do is put it where he is supposed to and they ACTUALLY have to catch the ball.

Will it be a continuing trend, time will tell. Those that don't catch the ball will not see the ball much this year.

But it sounds like Putz, Alexander, Leach and Hape are catching everything in their area.

Ashley sounds like he is finally becoming a complete receiver. Rod is Rod and Jerry Rice if he makes the team just does not drop balls or deflect them.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but think with this mix of receivers Jake just migh be bowling this year.

Prodigal19
08-06-2005, 10:06 PM
I think that our defense is just very good and one of the focuses of training camp more then previous years is to create the turnover and they are doing a good job.

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 10:11 PM
Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but think with this mix of receivers Jake just migh be bowling this year.

I don't see why not!

broncos_mtnman
08-06-2005, 10:12 PM
its only training camp..

That's what they kept saying last year.

broncos_mtnman
08-06-2005, 10:16 PM
Hey.. I've said time and time again that Jake is good enough to win as long as we surround him with good talent. I'm just not going to blow smoke and try to say that he's more than just an average QB that needs good surrounding talent to succeed. Other than that, I'm not on Jake's ass. I just don't fall for the making excuses for him stuff that so many around here like to do. The tipped INTs have gone from 3-4..to 4-5...to 4-7. You may not care about his time in Pheonix, because its easy to want to use Pheonix as an excuse for his lack of success there. Thats cool. But please. Enough with blaming the wind, the fans, the WRs age, the "wanting to win", the taking it upon his shoulders, or the height of the opposing LBs .. as excuses for Jake's INTs. ALLLLL QBs have to deal with the SAME situations, and personel problems, and defenses that Jake does. If he didn't throw 20 INTs in 62.5% of his career, then there wouldn't be a concern about him throwing them. But he has. Until he breaks that trend, that habit, or that pattern.. there will ALWAYS be a concern about Jake's INTs. I just don't like the excuses given to certain players for their lack of success. Whether it's Q or its Jake.

JR will always make the "tipped ball" excuse for JP. What you don't hear him comment on is how many incomplete passes were INTs that were "defended" by the receiver or how many completions were due to extra effort by the receiver.

JR, the numbers are the numbers. And once again, there were no rookies on the starting offense last season.

broncos_mtnman
08-06-2005, 10:19 PM
Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but think with this mix of receivers Jake just migh be bowling this year.

You're right. Actually, he's gone bowling every year he's been here with his charity bowling event. Unfortunately, that's the only bowling he will ever do.

Ravage!!!
08-06-2005, 10:34 PM
You're right. Actually, he's gone bowling every year he's been here with his charity bowling event. Unfortunately, that's the only bowling he will ever do.

Come on mtnman. Ease up a bit. Jake has the tools around him to succeed. He has the veteran WRs. He has Lelie.. not only coming off a break out season, but showing that he is really becoming a all-around WR. He has Watts that is no longer a rookie.. he has Rice to step in with veteran play. He has Jeb and Alexander to help out on the TE...and a running game that is decently stacked with depth. THIS being said. Jake is surrounded to succeed. If he succeeds, then that means the BRONCOS have succeeded. That means that Shanahan supported him with the right amount of talent to go to the next level, and Jake stepped it up. If.. IF.... we fail.. then there just can't be any excuses. So we really must back Jake. We don't have a choice in the matter, since we want the Broncos to do well. If Jake has another 20+ INT year...then the evaluations will have to take another look at the reasons. Until then.... there is no sense in kicking the dead horse. We have moved from off-season, to pre-season. ITs time to take off the critical hat, and put on the supporting one. Now its time to get revved up for the season.. and get our food ready to throw at the television.

broncos_mtnman
08-06-2005, 11:10 PM
Come on mtnman. Ease up a bit. Jake has the tools around him to succeed. He has the veteran WRs. He has Lelie.. not only coming off a break out season, but showing that he is really becoming a all-around WR. He has Watts that is no longer a rookie.. he has Rice to step in with veteran play. He has Jeb and Alexander to help out on the TE...and a running game that is decently stacked with depth. THIS being said. Jake is surrounded to succeed. If he succeeds, then that means the BRONCOS have succeeded. That means that Shanahan supported him with the right amount of talent to go to the next level, and Jake stepped it up. If.. IF.... we fail.. then there just can't be any excuses. So we really must back Jake. We don't have a choice in the matter, since we want the Broncos to do well. If Jake has another 20+ INT year...then the evaluations will have to take another look at the reasons. Until then.... there is no sense in kicking the dead horse. We have moved from off-season, to pre-season. ITs time to take off the critical hat, and put on the supporting one. Now its time to get revved up for the season.. and get our food ready to throw at the television.

I'm with ya Ravage! I don't spend money on Club Seats every year because I'm not a fan. We'll see how it goes. I was just making an attempt at humor playing on the "bowling" word. It's a good thing I don't make my living as a comedian.

By the way, I have one of those foam bricks to throw. It's not as messy... ;)

txsbronco
08-06-2005, 11:21 PM
once again Jr i have to call you out on football stupidity....you are telling the whole board that JP throw all those INT'S. last year because his RB sucked??? tell the board one thing the RB's did to contribute to the WR's droping balls into the hands of the other team...hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT A F#$$&*5 THANG

Hey board I guess Jr think the Broncos are surrounded by a bunch of slaps...Jr that means sucky players...my bad didn't mean to hate on you...and I really hate this but JR is right about the tips, but notice he didn't talk about the protection breakdowns, causing at least 5-6 int's...that is because the little bug was not in there....Jr thinks he is the best in protection...even though he was on the IR...

Ravage!!!
08-07-2005, 09:45 AM
I'm with ya Ravage! I don't spend money on Club Seats every year because I'm not a fan. We'll see how it goes. I was just making an attempt at humor playing on the "bowling" word. It's a good thing I don't make my living as a comedian.

By the way, I have one of those foam bricks to throw. It's not as messy... ;)

I used to have one of those foam bricks.. its now foam dust!!

BANJOPICKER1
08-07-2005, 11:45 AM
Really folks,who cares if Jake makes 50 ints this season if we make the playoffs like we have the last 2 years he has been here??Humm??well???does it matter really??Cause i sure dont give it a second thought..Jake has = playoffs....

GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 03:32 PM
JR will always make the "tipped ball" excuse for JP. What you don't hear him comment on is how many incomplete passes were INTs that were "defended" by the receiver or how many completions were due to extra effort by the receiver.

JR, the numbers are the numbers. And once again, there were no rookies on the starting offense last season.


I guess if you want to have the strictest interpetation you are partially correct.

But saying PUTZ was not for all intents and purposes a rookie. After all he did have a whooping 7 catches the year before. I guess that means he is a seasoned veteran.


Watts actually STARTED TWO games last year, he played in every game and had at least one reception in all but the 1st INDY game. He played alot and even though he is disabled, he has shown class, but yet had a few (6 I think) key drops one for a game winning TD at a critical time.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/player/gamelogs/2004/493109


Will I state reasons for a few of Jakes pick absolutely. Because once the ball is out of his hands and if that pass is a good one and hits the reciver in the hnads it should be caught. That is not Jakes fault regardless of what you want to believe.

Did Jake force some passes last year absolutely did he have a couple tipped at the LOS by Dlinemen right again. There is NO QB in teh league that does not have as occasional pick. Did Jake throw some marginal passes that the WR or TE caught with effort of course. SO WHAT! It is part of the game. MAnning had soem and actually had more left handed passes than Jake did last year had 2 of them on their hilite reel on NFL network.

Get over it! OR maybe that was you that Jake was digitally saluting.

What is acceptable to you 2-1 ratio 3-1, 4-1 there must be something you would find ok.

This is a free country and I can only state the facts! If your dislike of Jake is so balatant, regardless if he takes us to the S/B and gets the MVP of the league and SB, you will still find someting to pick at.

YOUR problem not mine.

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 03:43 PM
once again Jr i have to call you out on football stupidity....you are telling the whole board that JP throw all those INT'S. last year because his RB sucked??? tell the board one thing the RB's did to contribute to the WR's droping balls into the hands of the other team...hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT A F#$$&*5 THANG

Hey board I guess Jr think the Broncos are surrounded by a bunch of slaps...Jr that means sucky players...my bad didn't mean to hate on you...and I really hate this but JR is right about the tips, but notice he didn't talk about the protection breakdowns, causing at least 5-6 int's...that is because the little bug was not in there....Jr thinks he is the best in protection...even though he was on the IR...


Perhaps you can quote me on this. Because I don't remember saying that Jake threw Pick, because his RB sucked.

Perhaps you are reading something into the conversation I did not say.

Quote me correctly, so use the Quote button or shut your yap. IF not the quote button then cut and paste my posts into yours.

BTW thanks for not capping every word and running your sentences into one really BIG paragraph.

Xengage-eightX
08-07-2005, 06:25 PM
I'm personally ashamed people. How do you call yourself fans. Do you thunk whining about a few interceptions on here will change how a QB plays. If your a bronco fan, then u should support your quarterback. jakes a playmaker and a gunslinger. I'd rather have a QB that takes the chance to make something happen and occaisionally turns it over than a guy who holds in the pocket and gets sacked. Who doesnt like 3rd and 2 situations that turn into 48 yrd TD passes. Our offense needs the mobility he has.

someone else made a good point on here. i dont know how long all of you have been fans but im assuming most since 98 (chuckle, chuckle), but Elway gave some big games away on int's. it happens and its part of the game. hell, i can barely play a game of Madden w/o throwin some good redzone int's.

on the other hand look at the hyped QB's, especially vick and favre. Oh yeah i saw peyton get ripped the other night too. and if i remember right Vick got showed up by the number 2 spot...schaub. You take the good with the bad, and jakes a hell of a player....sorry for the bluntness but until u chumps are out there reading zone blitzes and looking off safeties keep ur trash talk on our starter for the raiders board and support ur team!

txsbronco
08-07-2005, 08:16 PM
When surrounded by good players in 2003 his picks were down significantly 7 if I remember as compared to 15-16 TD's 2-1 ratio. I could be wrong here in the numbers but without looking them up I think pretty close.

Last year he had as I said 4-7 passes that the receivers had their hands on and they bounced off the SAN game was one of them 3 of the 4 if I remember correctly.

If the WR had have held on to all of those passes the season may have been different. All but perhaps one of those passes hit the receivers square in the hands. Didn't have to stretch way out for them, just square on the money and they were tipped. The only one that was high and glanced off was the one in the endzone off Rods finger tips. 9 times out of ten he makes that catch.

He did not have that problem in 2003 when he had a decent RB, all pro TE and Eddie mac. But when replaced by Putz that had all of 7 catches prior to last year, Watts who is a rookie (now we find out about him being almost one handed) and a mulitude of RB's Q, tater, RD, Hape and Carswell.

Perhaps it was not quite the exprienced receivers we would like for him to throw to. All he can do is put it where he is supposed to and they ACTUALLY have to catch the ball.

Will it be a continuing trend, time will tell. Those that don't catch the ball will not see the ball much this year.

But it sounds like Putz, Alexander, Leach and Hape are catching everything in their area.

Ashley sounds like he is finally becoming a complete receiver. Rod is Rod and Jerry Rice if he makes the team just does not drop balls or deflect them.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but think with this mix of receivers Jake just migh be bowling this year.



jr read your own post, 4th # and from what else I am reading their are others on this board who think you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!

sorry if the caps hurt your eyes... when you start speewing statements that sound half way like you know what the @#$$ you are talking about...I will quit pointing them out to you and the board...I hope all my funny letters are not a COC violation...god forbid

Sam_Z
08-07-2005, 08:36 PM
I heard shanahan say on 7 news last week that this is Jakes make or break year. Sure they paid him alot more money but the clause is still there. Im also thinking Shanahan is going to give Van Pelt all the opportunity he needs to unseat Plummer, it should make for a very interesting season lets just hope it doesnt destroy the team like it did with Brian Greise and Bubby Brister.

broncos_mtnman
08-07-2005, 10:07 PM
What is acceptable to you 2-1 ratio 3-1, 4-1 there must be something you would find ok.

This is a free country and I can only state the facts! If your dislike of Jake is so balatant, regardless if he takes us to the S/B and gets the MVP of the league and SB, you will still find someting to pick at.



OK, I'll answer these two questions.

#1 - I would like to see a 2-1 or better ratio. That would be something I would find ok.

#2 - If he takes us to the Super Bowl and he wins the MVP of the league and the SB, I'll stop picking at him.

I don't think I'll have to change my mind on him anytime soon. ;)

rcsodak
08-07-2005, 10:12 PM
JR, the numbers are the numbers. And once again, there were no rookies on the starting offense last season.

Foster-for all intents/purposes?
Lepsis as LT?
Bell?
Watts?
Putz-had 7 catches before?
Luke?

Just which team, exactly, are you watching play?

broncos_mtnman
08-07-2005, 10:19 PM
Foster-for all intents/purposes?
Lepsis as LT?
Bell?
Watts?
Putz-had 7 catches before?
Luke?

Just which team, exactly, are you watching play?

Lepsis was not a rookie. He was moved to LT for the other side. That doesn't make him a rookie.

Bell was not the starter. Droughns was.

Watts was #3 or #4 receiver. Not a starter (Smith and Lelie were the starters).

Putz was not a rookie.

Luke was never above #4. Again, not a starter.

Nice try.

rcsodak
08-07-2005, 10:19 PM
jr read your own post, 4th # and from what else I am reading their are others on this board who think you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!

sorry if the caps hurt your eyes... when you start speewing statements that sound half way like you know what the @#$$ you are talking about...I will quit pointing them out to you and the board...I hope all my funny letters are not a COC violation...god forbid

I see you picking out part of his post, and attempting to use it for your argument.
Funny....how it doesn't quite work.

You need to quit with your attacking statements aimed at fellow posters, if you don't want to 'meet the mods'. You're either going to get the ire of the board, or sent to the corner for a 'timeout'......

And yes.....bypassing the language filter IS a COC violation.....you might want to read it. :coffee:

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 10:23 PM
jr read your own post, 4th # and from what else I am reading their are others on this board who think you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!

sorry if the caps hurt your eyes... when you start speewing statements that sound half way like you know what the @#$$ you are talking about...I will quit pointing them out to you and the board...I hope all my funny letters are not a COC violation...god forbid


OK lets read that slowly.


"Originally Posted by Jrhampton
When surrounded by good players in 2003 his picks were down significantly 7 if I remember as compared to 15-16 TD's 2-1 ratio. I could be wrong here in the numbers but without looking them up I think pretty close.

Last year he had as I said 4-7 passes that the receivers had their hands on and they bounced off the SAN game was one of them 3 of the 4 if I remember correctly.

If the WR had have held on to all of those passes the season may have been different. All but perhaps one of those passes hit the receivers square in the hands. Didn't have to stretch way out for them, just square on the money and they were tipped. The only one that was high and glanced off was the one in the endzone off Rods finger tips. 9 times out of ten he makes that catch.

He did not have that problem in 2003 when he had a decent RB, all pro TE and Eddie mac. But when replaced by Putz that had all of 7 catches prior to last year, Watts who is a rookie (now we find out about him being almost one handed) and a mulitude of RB's Q, tater, RD, Hape and Carswell.
Perhaps it was not quite the exprienced receivers we would like for him to throw to. All he can do is put it where he is supposed to and they ACTUALLY have to catch the ball.

Will it be a continuing trend, time will tell. Those that don't catch the ball will not see the ball much this year.

But it sounds like Putz, Alexander, Leach and Hape are catching everything in their area.

Ashley sounds like he is finally becoming a complete receiver. Rod is Rod and Jerry Rice if he makes the team just does not drop balls or deflect them.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but think with this mix of receivers Jake just migh be bowling this year."

Show me where I stated that our running backs suck and it was their fault he threw picks.

I show the difference in an all pro TE, all pro RB and seasoned Veteran WR and a TE with 7 catches to his credit, a one handed rookie and a bunch of different RB's. It was not just the RB's that made the difference but no sharpe, portis and Eddie Mac.

If you don't like Jake or Q fine with me. Your the one that has to live with them being on the Broncos team not me.

If you are reading anything else into that post you are wrong. If that is all you have, we will have to agree to disagree.

rcsodak
08-07-2005, 10:27 PM
Lepsis was not a rookie. He was moved to LT for the other side. That doesn't make him a rookie.

Bell was not the starter. Droughns was.

Watts was #3 or #4 receiver. Not a starter (Smith and Lelie were the starters).

Putz was not a rookie.

Luke was never above #4. Again, not a starter.

Nice try.

Nice try, hell! If you don't think moving from one side of the Oline to the other places you in 'rookie' status, you've evidently never played/been asked to change.
Watts playing #3/4 doesn't matter, now does it? He was expected to play when he went in, and he WAS a rookie. Semantics are your only weapon.
Bell wasn't a rookie last year?
Putz was a veteren? It was his first year starting, was it not? And how many catches did he have coming in? So riding the bench behind a future HoF'er, and catching a handful of passes makes him a vet? You make me giggle....
Is the special teams considered offense? I seem to recall MANY teams thinking its the offenses' first play! Was he not receiving kickoffs?

Only YOU would care about who "starts" or not.....do you think the starters actually play the entire game? The 2nd stringers are EXPECTED to be able to come into the game and NOT miss a step, are they not?

I don't do 'nice try's.........I make points! :coffee:

rcsodak
08-07-2005, 10:40 PM
OK lets read that slowly.


Show me where I stated that our running backs suck and it was their fault he threw picks.

I show the difference in an all pro TE, all pro RB and seasoned Veteran WR and a TE with 7 catches to his credit, a one handed rookie and a bunch of different RB's. It was not just the RB's that made the difference but no sharpe, portis and Eddie Mac.

If you don't like Jake or Q fine with me. Your the one that has to live with them being on the Broncos team not me.

If you are reading anything else into that post you are wrong. If that is all you have, we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't think too many others read anything else into that post, jr, than what you intended.
Tx has a prob with Jake that only he can get over........nobody here can cure him, I'm sure..... :coffee:

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 10:41 PM
OK, I'll answer these two questions.

#1 - I would like to see a 2-1 or better ratio. That would be something I would find ok.

#2 - If he takes us to the Super Bowl and he wins the MVP of the league and the SB, I'll stop picking at him.

I don't think I'll have to change my mind on him anytime soon. ;)

I'd like a 2-1 also better would be 3-1 but that is unlikely as not many do that.


As far as the SB MVP I meant that as sarcasm.

While Jake may not be brady or Manning his only real flaw that I can see is a few extra picks if he gets that undercontrol he becomes a pretty damned good QB. That fits our system better than most others.

broncos_mtnman
08-07-2005, 10:50 PM
As far as the SB MVP I meant that as sarcasm.

So was my reply.

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 10:53 PM
Lepsis was not a rookie. He was moved to LT for the other side. That doesn't make him a rookie.

Bell was not the starter. Droughns was.

Watts was #3 or #4 receiver. Not a starter (Smith and Lelie were the starters).

Putz was not a rookie.

Luke was never above #4. Again, not a starter.

Nice try.


Just to reiterate my earlier post which you seemd to gloss over.

I guess if you want to have the strictest interpetation you are partially correct.

But saying PUTZ was not for all intents and purposes a rookie. After all he did have a whooping 7 catches the year before. I guess that means he is a seasoned veteran.

Watts actually STARTED TWO games last year, he played in every game and had at least one reception in all but the 1st INDY game. He played alot and even though he is disabled, he has shown class, but yet had a few (6 I think) key drops one for a game winning TD at a critical time.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/playe...ogs/2004/493109

Just wanted to set the record straight.

BTW while Lepsis did play RT before changing sides to LT reallly does make him a rookie at that position. As every thing is ass backwards. Not to mention he gets the RDE the fast and quick guy opposed to the big bad LDE.

JRWIZ
08-07-2005, 10:54 PM
So was my reply.

Missed that one went right over my head.

OrangeShadow
08-08-2005, 06:24 AM
Ever think they show all those picks to get us believeing in the defense? Besides gerrarad warren has looked like a pro bowler in camp anyone wanna say he will be in hawaii come pro bowl?

rcsodak
08-08-2005, 11:11 PM
Ever think they show all those picks to get us believeing in the defense? Besides gerrarad warren has looked like a pro bowler in camp anyone wanna say he will be in hawaii come pro bowl?

Listening to the way he's talking, he's got a chip on his shoulder the size of the rockies.....

I just hope he proves he's worth the 4th round pick....anything more, and really good things can happen.

towels
08-09-2005, 08:36 AM
Almost makes you miss the good old days when our QB had a 19 TD/4 INT ratio...
;)

rcsodak
08-09-2005, 12:01 PM
Almost makes you miss the good old days when our QB had a 19 TD/4 INT ratio...
;)

Agreed!
TC is the time to get all of the wrinkles worked out, and get that sharpness rehoned.
Quite frankly, none of the qb's have exactly shined thus far.
But by the end of TC, hopefully they will get those bad throws/reads out of their heads and be primed for a successful season.

sbutk
08-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Almost makes you miss the good old days when our QB had a 19 TD/4 INT ratio...
;)



You're referring to Elway? Griese?

I wouldn't mind having either back under center right now, actually.

rcsodak
08-09-2005, 03:51 PM
You're referring to Elway? Griese?

I wouldn't mind having either back under center right now, actually.
Griese?

Please.........:rolleyes:

bcbronc
08-09-2005, 05:36 PM
Watts actually STARTED TWO games last year, he played in every game and had at least one reception in all but the 1st INDY game. He played alot and even though he is disabled, he has shown class, but yet had a few (6 I think) key drops one for a game winning TD at a critical time.

.

... i hardly think watts can be considered "disabled". cmon. he had the hand injury when he was breaking school records (previosly held by moss i believe) in college. if anything his hand should be less of a factor now.

lets make like watts in the endzone and drop this "disabled" bs (sorry couldnt resist).

BroncoRT
08-09-2005, 08:56 PM
Almost makes you miss the good old days when our QB had a 19 TD/4 INT ratio...
;)

...yeah but not when the QB trips over his dog! :D

JRWIZ
08-10-2005, 12:30 AM
... i hardly think watts can be considered "disabled". cmon. he had the hand injury when he was breaking school records (previosly held by moss i believe) in college. if anything his hand should be less of a factor now.

lets make like watts in the endzone and drop this "disabled" bs (sorry couldnt resist).


While he competed at the college level very well indeed, he is now at another level all together. One wonders how many DBs knew about his disability in college and defensed him the way every DB will in the future.

If one does not hand complete control over an hand or other limb he is indeed diabled. Now that been said he has beat long odds to say the least and has learned to overcome his problem. Or maybe I should have said adapt to his lack of feeling in the hand.

Will he be able to be a record setting NFL WR I sure as hell hope so. I like the kid and if the NFL DB's don't take the other hand away from him in the future it could be very bright indeed.

Physbo
08-10-2005, 01:09 AM
Now, i did read every post made in this topic, but i read most. There was a argument about how Plummer has a terrible touchdown to interception ratio. Well, if we compare that to John Elway, who did not have a break out season till 1993. Now then, in Jakes nine year carrer, mostly playing with a terrible terrible team. He has 132 TDs and 141 Ints. Now you cant have an excuse for all those, but still. Yes that is a bad ration. Then lets look at John Elway, he had 300 tds to his 226 ints. That ratio only improve after 93. Now he was drafted in 83, so that made him a 10 year vet. See where im coming from? Jake played some what similar to John, but John had a better team. I could sit here and break down how john didnt look well stat wise early in his carrer, but he still won games. Jake has been winning games. Isnt that what its about?

And sorry if there are some misspelled words, its early and im kind of tired.

JRWIZ
08-10-2005, 07:23 AM
Now, i did read every post made in this topic, but i read most. There was a argument about how Plummer has a terrible touchdown to interception ratio. Well, if we compare that to John Elway, who did not have a break out season till 1993. Now then, in Jakes nine year carrer, mostly playing with a terrible terrible team. He has 132 TDs and 141 Ints. Now you cant have an excuse for all those, but still. Yes that is a bad ration. Then lets look at John Elway, he had 300 tds to his 226 ints. That ratio only improve after 93. Now he was drafted in 83, so that made him a 10 year vet. See where im coming from? Jake played some what similar to John, but John had a better team. I could sit here and break down how john didnt look well stat wise early in his carrer, but he still won games. Jake has been winning games. Isnt that what its about?

And sorry if there are some misspelled words, its early and im kind of tired.


Good logical post.

But there are a bunch 15 or so Elway worshippers that will take on any one that uses Jakes name in the same paragraph and the revered one John.

Be prepared for this drivel.

Now John is a HOF QB, but the shrine they have built for him in their minds will not allow them to see that he was a mere mortal in his earlier years.

Someone stated in anothe thread that Dan R brought John to his true potential. I started to comment at the time but was to tired to think straight.

Dan did nothing but hamstring John and his talents until such time as Mikey was brought on board to be the buffer between them and give him coaching John languished in the 2 runs and a pass offense that the EX RB Dan Reeves believed in. John trying to make up for the pathetic running game we had over most of those years.

Between Mikey and Fassel, they were what made John Elways career in DEN. Dan was merely an speed bump in the career of John on his to his eventual HOF induction.

Peerless
08-10-2005, 08:09 AM
Message to Jake: Get your Fu**ing game up and pull the string out of your a**! Lets go!
Wow.......... your just dumb.

Ravage!!!
08-10-2005, 08:19 AM
Now, i did read every post made in this topic, but i read most. There was a argument about how Plummer has a terrible touchdown to interception ratio. Well, if we compare that to John Elway, who did not have a break out season till 1993. Now then, in Jakes nine year carrer, mostly playing with a terrible terrible team. He has 132 TDs and 141 Ints. Now you cant have an excuse for all those, but still. Yes that is a bad ration. Then lets look at John Elway, he had 300 tds to his 226 ints. That ratio only improve after 93. Now he was drafted in 83, so that made him a 10 year vet. See where im coming from? Jake played some what similar to John, but John had a better team. I could sit here and break down how john didnt look well stat wise early in his carrer, but he still won games. Jake has been winning games. Isnt that what its about?

And sorry if there are some misspelled words, its early and im kind of tired.

I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.

JRWIZ
08-10-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.



You and differ in this area. Only because in EVERYONE elses eyes except yours and a dozen or so other fans on this board John is not the QB God that you think he is.



There is nothing wrong with that but be advised, that you are the small minority here.

Jake may not ever be in your eyes worthy of being compared to John, but get used to the idea that he will be the longer he is in DEN. It is only natural and logical.

Now should we compare him to his contemporaries yes of course.

John will be the best in DEN til Jake or someone else takes his place, but it will happen, just as Marinos record are being broken most of Johns will be also.

Sad but true.

Did John bring the Broncos to another level yes indeed and he will always be remembered by me and I'm sure thousands of others in the vein.

But now Ravage it is time to move on for most of us. Join us if you wish or continue to rail against Jake and John comparsions, as they are enevitable. Because afterall they both have indeed been on the Broncos.

broncos_mtnman
08-10-2005, 12:22 PM
You and differ in this area. Only because in EVERYONE elses eyes except yours and a dozen or so other fans on this board John is not the QB God that you think he is.

JR,

Just when I think we can begin to agree on things, you say something like this. I guarantee you that there are more than a "dozen or so fans" that understand how good Elway was.

Get Real!!

MileHighMagic07
08-10-2005, 02:36 PM
oh please pull your head out of your ass, enough is enough....... move on people, mentioning jake in the same sentence, let alone paragraph, or even article as John Elway is ridiculous, if you think plummer is nearly as good as John Elway we all know you do not watch football, you read stats.. end of story. get with it.

JRWIZ
08-10-2005, 03:09 PM
JR,

Just when I think we can begin to agree on things, you say something like this. I guarantee you that there are more than a "dozen or so fans" that understand how good Elway was.

Get Real!!


There are only a few on this forum that idolize him to a irrational point of not mentioning him in the same sentence as John. Or going ballistic if someone does.

John is HOF and will always hold a special spot in my heart. He our Moses that lead the Broncos to the promised land.

It was 37 odd years of me watching them to get there. It was sweet!

But for anyone to say we can't compare Jake to him is not normal.

Jake is our QB now for better or worse it was Mikeys and Pats decision to option him for the next year/s.

Some need to move on and accept this fact.

topscribe
08-10-2005, 05:15 PM
once again Jr i have to call you out on football stupidity....you are telling the whole board that JP throw all those INT'S. last year because his RB sucked??? tell the board one thing the RB's did to contribute to the WR's droping balls into the hands of the other team...hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT A F#$$&*5 THANG

Hey board I guess Jr think the Broncos are surrounded by a bunch of slaps...Jr that means sucky players...my bad didn't mean to hate on you...and I really hate this but JR is right about the tips, but notice he didn't talk about the protection breakdowns, causing at least 5-6 int's...that is because the little bug was not in there....Jr thinks he is the best in protection...even though he was on the IR...
Now, did you notice how I have your exact post replicated right above here so I am forced to accurately represent what you said? I accomplished that by using the "Quote" button. That''s that button at the lower right of a post. If you use it, then your reader can tell precisely to what post you are alluding when you point out how stupid the poster is. For instance, I cannot find where JR said Jake threw INTs last year because "his RB sucked."

BTW, does your "m" key occasionally stick on you? Oh yes, your bypassing the filter and starting a "funny key" expletive with the letter "F" just may get you dropped (check the spelling of that word) from the board for a while. FYI.

:coffee:

-----

topscribe
08-10-2005, 05:24 PM
jr read your own post, 4th # and from what else I am reading their are others on this board who think you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!

sorry if the caps hurt your eyes... when you start speewing statements that sound half way like you know what the @#$$ you are talking about...I will quit pointing them out to you and the board...I hope all my funny letters are not a COC violation...god forbid
And "there" are others on this board to do think JR knows what he is talking about. There are others on this board besides you and mtnmn. In other words, there are others, while not presuming to say Jake has been an All-Pro, who realize Jake did a good job last year and the year before. In this, we're siding with the coaches . . . . you know, those people who know almost as much as you?

-----

topscribe
08-10-2005, 05:41 PM
I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.
Rav, Jake's 4,089 yards last season was unmatched my Elway. Jake's 27 TDs tied Elway's best year. Now, did I look ridiculous? If I did, then sometimes facts must make a person revealing them look ridiculous, I guess. Did I say Jake is Elway's equal? Looking back on this post, I cannot see where. I pointed out a couple areas in which Jake excelled, that's all. To NOT provide such comparisons is not fair to Jake . . . . unless you believe it is fair that Jake can never emerge from Elway's shadow.

No, Jake will never be among the all-time greats. However, to say he cannot lead us to the Super Bowl is not fair. (This is a generic statement, not applied to anything you have said.) A few here (again, not you) harbor an agenda against Jake, and if he does end up in the Super Bowl, I believe some of these people will be saying the Broncos got there despite him.

Nonetheless, I find myself on one side and them on the other. You seem to be in the middle, somewhere between us. Thanks for being there. Points to you for your attempt at balance.

EDIT: "You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to Ravage!!! again." IOU.

-----

baitism
08-10-2005, 05:52 PM
Wow.......... your just dumb.


Classic quote here folks!

Ravage!!!
08-10-2005, 06:28 PM
...
But now Ravage it is time to move on for most of us. Join us if you wish or continue to rail against Jake and John comparsions, as they are enevitable. Because afterall they both have indeed been on the Broncos.

No. I can respect what you are saying.. but completely disagree. I know Elway isnt' a god. I know he was only human.

But if you are going to compare John Elway to other QBs.. at least compare him to other QBs that can be compared to him. Favre, Marino, Young, Montana...

But QBs that are at the level of Jake Plummer... the only thing Jake and John will EVER share in common is the uniform. Jake will NEVER EVER be listed with those considered to be amongst the greatest of all time. Jake will never be in the HoF.

That being said. I've said. Its not fair to JAKE to compare him to John Elway. I've said that EVERY time. Why? Because people can constantly show that Jake is NOT to that level of play. If you want to compare him to another player.. compare him to someone near his kind of ability and success. If you do NOT want people to put Elway UP in comparison to Jake.. then do NOT try to compare Jake to John, then expect others not to counter that comparison.

We can win with Jake on how he is..but do NOT try to suggest that Jake is anywhere near the kind of player that John Elway was..because thats just puttig him on a level where he does NOT belong, and to be honest.. it isn't fair to Jake to try and put him there, becaue he will only have a LONG ways to fall when pushed off that pedestal.

Ravage!!!
08-10-2005, 06:52 PM
Rav, Jake's 4,089 yards last season was unmatched my Elway. Jake's 27 TDs tied Elway's best year. Now, did I look ridiculous? If I did, then sometimes facts must make a person revealing them look ridiculous, I guess. Did I say Jake is Elway's equal? Looking back on this post, I cannot see where. I pointed out a couple areas in which Jake excelled, that's all. To NOT provide such comparisons is not fair to Jake . . . . unless you believe it is fair that Jake can never emerge from Elway's shadow.

No, Jake will never be among the all-time greats. However, to say he cannot lead us to the Super Bowl is not fair. (This is a generic statement, not applied to anything you have said.) A few here (again, not you) harbor an agenda against Jake, and if he does end up in the Super Bowl, I believe some of these people will be saying the Broncos got there despite him.

Nonetheless, I find myself on one side and them on the other. You seem to be in the middle, somewhere between us. Thanks for being there. Points to you for your attempt at balance.

EDIT: "You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to Ravage!!! again." IOU.

-----

Top. I don't think I was responding to your post with mine. But I see your point. If we go to the Super Bowl.. I personally don't think it was BECAUSE of Jake. I am sure he would be a very intricate cog to the wheel however (thats an obvious statement).

I guess my ears perk up when people try to point out the the stats compared to Elway's in DEFENSE of Jake. To me, that doesn't hold water. There are just somethings that stats don't show. If people want to use the 4000 yrd marker as a comparison to how he did for the year.. compared to the rest of the league, compared to the average QB, or compared to the others in the division, fine. But if you are going to use his 4000 yrds in comparison to a HoF QB and say that Jake is 'basically the same type of QB' (I'm not saying it was you that said this)...then I'm going to RUN to make a rebuttle. Stats are just stats and don't prove anything. If that were the case, you would read Marino's stats and assume he won more Championships than any other QB alive. I know you know this.

My main point is simple. If you DON'T want people to compare Jake to John Elway.. then DON'T use the 'stats' and state that Jake has more yardage than John in a single season. Because I will counter than with ten other "stats." If you are going to point out Jake's 27 TD passes, GREAT. But if you compare those 27 TD passes to John... then again, I'm going to point out 27 other stats that Jake can't hold up to. If you DON'T want Jake to constantly be compared to John Elway..then PLEASE don't compare his stats to John Elway! Thats simple, right?

Freestyle
08-10-2005, 07:00 PM
I think the whole stat arguement is brought up, because people are bashing on Plummer way too harshly. Does it imply Jake is better? Of course not. Fans are outraged over our performance and are demanding heads. We dont want to get rid of a potentially good qb because we got hot tempered and went on a scapegoat spree.

T55Bird
08-10-2005, 08:42 PM
We can win with Jake on how he is..but do NOT try to suggest that Jake is anywhere near the kind of player that John Elway was..because thats just puttig him on a level where he does NOT belong, and to be honest.. it isn't fair to Jake to try and put him there, becaue he will only have a LONG ways to fall when pushed off that pedestal.

We can win with Jake as long as there is a good solid team around him. He is just not going to elevate an entire team the way Elway did in the 80s.

rcsodak
08-10-2005, 09:41 PM
Top. I don't think I was responding to your post with mine. But I see your point. If we go to the Super Bowl.. I personally don't think it was BECAUSE of Jake. I am sure he would be a very intricate cog to the wheel however (thats an obvious statement).

I guess my ears perk up when people try to point out the the stats compared to Elway's in DEFENSE of Jake. To me, that doesn't hold water. There are just somethings that stats don't show. If people want to use the 4000 yrd marker as a comparison to how he did for the year.. compared to the rest of the league, compared to the average QB, or compared to the others in the division, fine. But if you are going to use his 4000 yrds in comparison to a HoF QB and say that Jake is 'basically the same type of QB' (I'm not saying it was you that said this)...then I'm going to RUN to make a rebuttle. Stats are just stats and don't prove anything. If that were the case, you would read Marino's stats and assume he won more Championships than any other QB alive. I know you know this.

My main point is simple. If you DON'T want people to compare Jake to John Elway.. then DON'T use the 'stats' and state that Jake has more yardage than John in a single season. Because I will counter than with ten other "stats." If you are going to point out Jake's 27 TD passes, GREAT. But if you compare those 27 TD passes to John... then again, I'm going to point out 27 other stats that Jake can't hold up to. If you DON'T want Jake to constantly be compared to John Elway..then PLEASE don't compare his stats to John Elway! Thats simple, right?
Rav, SOME people show both qb's stats as a GAUGE and nothing more.
You can't admonish Jakes throwing for 4k+, and laude Elway for 3k+. Its not right.
Jake is Jake. John is John. I imagine both are prolly pretty happy with their own skins.
To say that Jake will NEVER be a higher echelon qb, is quite frankly, silly. You don't KNOW that. Hell, he could go on a tear for the next 4-5 years.....you just don't know!
I just think its ironic the Jake-cons can call those that like him homers, but can't take the hater moniker.....(not necessarily including you :-) )

Ravage!!!
08-10-2005, 10:50 PM
Rav, SOME people show both qb's stats as a GAUGE and nothing more.
You can't admonish Jakes throwing for 4k+, and laude Elway for 3k+. Its not right.
Jake is Jake. John is John. I imagine both are prolly pretty happy with their own skins.
To say that Jake will NEVER be a higher echelon qb, is quite frankly, silly. You don't KNOW that. Hell, he could go on a tear for the next 4-5 years.....you just don't know!
I just think its ironic the Jake-cons can call those that like him homers, but can't take the hater moniker.....(not necessarily including you :-) )

Thats because "haters" is a much stronger word than homer. If you want to call people Jake detractors.. Anti-Jakes.... or something with a little less a harshness than "hater." Most people know that there is a BIG difference between not liking, and HATING.

rcsodak
08-10-2005, 11:03 PM
Thats because "haters" is a much stronger word than homer. If you want to call people Jake detractors.. Anti-Jakes.... or something with a little less a harshness than "hater." Most people know that there is a BIG difference between not liking, and HATING.
They both start with an "H", own 2 syllables and end in "er".

I'd add, that most of what comes from the fingers of the 'haters', is HATEFUL. I remember last year, posters were actually calling for season ending injuries to members of the team. Now, if that isn't being hateful......... :coffee:

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 12:00 AM
Top. I don't think I was responding to your post with mine. But I see your point. If we go to the Super Bowl.. I personally don't think it was BECAUSE of Jake. I am sure he would be a very intricate cog to the wheel however (thats an obvious statement).

I guess my ears perk up when people try to point out the the stats compared to Elway's in DEFENSE of Jake. To me, that doesn't hold water. There are just somethings that stats don't show. If people want to use the 4000 yrd marker as a comparison to how he did for the year.. compared to the rest of the league, compared to the average QB, or compared to the others in the division, fine. But if you are going to use his 4000 yrds in comparison to a HoF QB and say that Jake is 'basically the same type of QB' (I'm not saying it was you that said this)...then I'm going to RUN to make a rebuttle. Stats are just stats and don't prove anything. If that were the case, you would read Marino's stats and assume he won more Championships than any other QB alive. I know you know this.

My main point is simple. If you DON'T want people to compare Jake to John Elway.. then DON'T use the 'stats' and state that Jake has more yardage than John in a single season. Because I will counter than with ten other "stats." If you are going to point out Jake's 27 TD passes, GREAT. But if you compare those 27 TD passes to John... then again, I'm going to point out 27 other stats that Jake can't hold up to. If you DON'T want Jake to constantly be compared to John Elway..then PLEASE don't compare his stats to John Elway! Thats simple, right?


You bring out some great points here that I for one never thought about.



While Jake was what 4-5th last in in total yards and WAY down the list in TD 6-7th production they still beat or tied John numbers. If we had a way of looking at where John ranked in those years hje set the DEN records. I have to wonder where they also NFL marks that year or where they 4-5 in the league that year.

I don't know of a way to research those old years before about 2000. If someone has a link and can do so I'd find that interesting. But I wonder if One had the correct stats for the years in question.

Yards and TD 's are major comparisons what are the other stats that have you intirgued so much.

BTW, did John set these marks together the 27 TDs and yardage the same years like Jake did this year. If so was there an change in the rules that year also that opened up the passing offense like this year. Perhaps it was a real down year for their running game also.

Many factors are included in the passing marks that Jake made this year. A real lack of RB consistentcy the change in the rules and yet when one sees the lack of exprience at receiving RBs, WR (excepting Rod) and TE. It almost makes those record even more unbelieveable to me.

I could see it better last year with poorti$$$, MA, Sharpe, Rod, Eddie mac and asshley more than Watts, asshley, Rod and the hodge podge of RB's we had.

MileHighMagic07
08-11-2005, 03:33 AM
left-handed interception from his own goalline against K.C.
-thats all i gotta say about jake plumber

MileHighMagic07
08-11-2005, 03:34 AM
i repeat, left handed interception

MileHighMagic07
08-11-2005, 03:34 AM
at least he can throw them with both hands, right? :coffee:

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 07:07 AM
left-handed interception from his own goalline against K.C.
-thats all i gotta say about jake plumber


I guess that this makes you a charter member of the greasy for DEN QB club or perhaps vice president of the ICAN'TSTANDJAKECLUB.

Mentality like this does nothing but foster bad feeling from/for most other fans.

Do you really think that Jake was the only QB to attempt or complete a left handed pass?

Ravage!!!
08-11-2005, 08:09 AM
at least he can throw them with both hands, right? :coffee:

no.. left :D ....

topscribe
08-11-2005, 10:30 AM
I guess that this makes you a charter member of the greasy for DEN QB club or perhaps vice president of the ICAN'TSTANDJAKECLUB.

Mentality like this does nothing but foster bad feeling from/for most other fans.

Do you really think that Jake was the only QB to attempt or complete a left handed pass?
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either. :goofy:

-----

towels
08-11-2005, 10:52 AM
I'm pretty sure someone else threw a pick with their "off hand".
Let's not forget that Jake also threw a TD last year with his left hand.

broncos_mtnman
08-11-2005, 11:04 AM
I'm pretty sure someone else threw a pick with their "off hand".
Let's not forget that Jake also threw a TD last year with his left hand.

There's a vast difference between a planned shuttle pass and his attempt to avoid a sack by throwing left handed into coverage.

broncos_mtnman
08-11-2005, 11:05 AM
Most people know that there is a BIG difference between not liking, and HATING.

Right on Rav!!

Unfortunately, most people on this board apparently don't know the difference.

towels
08-11-2005, 12:18 PM
There's a vast difference between a planned shuttle pass and his attempt to avoid a sack by throwing left handed into coverage.

By the way, it's called a shovel pass.
You can't accurately say he threw into coverage since the pass didn't even get to the line of scrimmage. (Furthermore, we won that game...)

Finally, perhaps people wouldn't see you as a hater if your avatar and oversized sig photo weren't so unsupportive...

broncos_mtnman
08-11-2005, 12:32 PM
By the way, it's called a shovel pass.
You can't accurately say he threw into coverage since the pass didn't even get to the line of scrimmage. (Furthermore, we won that game...)

Finally, perhaps people wouldn't see you as a hater if your avatar and oversized sig photo weren't so unsupportive...

OOPS. You're right about the name of the pass.

You're wrong about the "hater" label.

*sighs* You still don't get it.

LCA534
08-11-2005, 12:38 PM
People need to realize that there is only 1 Elway so the comparisons need to stop. As for Jake he has helped us get to the playoffs the last two years alot of fans of different teams would love him for that. The one thing I love about Jake is his competitive spirit even after he does make a bad play(which all players do) he gives a complete effort to do what he can for the team.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 01:10 PM
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either. :goofy:

-----

I remember while watching the COLTS season hi*lites they had on NFL network a couple of months ago. They memntioned right after he had thrown one in the hi*lites for a good gain, that he had actually two others one incomplete and one for a pick and TD.

Way to much credo has been placed on the left handed attempt to make something happen.

If he wasn't trying to make something happen and he took a sack for a safety the ankle biters would have trashed him also for giving up 2 points. I would have been unhappy for him to give up on the play.

If memory serves correct we won that game did we not?

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 01:13 PM
Thats because "haters" is a much stronger word than homer. If you want to call people Jake detractors.. Anti-Jakes.... or something with a little less a harshness than "hater." Most people know that there is a BIG difference between not liking, and HATING.


So be it the new term is Anti-Jake. great Idea! So much less confrontational!

Lets see who to use it on first.

topscribe
08-11-2005, 01:17 PM
I remember while watching the COLTS season hi*lites they had on NFL network a couple of months ago. They memntioned right after he had thrown one in the hi*lites for a good gain, that he had actually two others one incomplete and one for a pick and TD.

Way to much credo has been placed on the left handed attempt to make something happen.

If he wasn't trying to make something happen and he took a sack for a safety the ankle biters would have trashed him also for giving up 2 points. I would have been unhappy for him to give up on the play.

If memory serves correct we won that game did we not?
Sounds as if Manning went "around the horn," so to speak. One completion, one incompletion, one interception. Nonetheless, it is that same fighting spirit and will to win that incited Jake's southpaw attempt. Moreover, regardless of the idiot remarks about that attempt, I hope he does not give up that spirit. If Jake sees the opportunity, go for it! Most likely, his arm would not get hit a second time. That winning spirit is one of the big differences between him and a Griese, for instance.

-----

topscribe
08-11-2005, 01:20 PM
So be it the new term is Anti-Jake. great Idea! So much less confrontational!

Lets see who to use it on first.
I will!

ANTI-JAKE HATER!!

(*OOPS! Got carried away there!* :laugh: )

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 01:23 PM
OOPS. You're right about the name of the pass.

You're wrong about the "hater" label.

*sighs* You still don't get it.


While it may not seem that way to you and I know you profess to not hating him. But your constant Anti-Jake rhetoric sure appears to be hate to most.

What do you quote in your sig?

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

Just a word to the wise.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 01:27 PM
Sounds as if Manning went "around the horn," so to speak. One completion, one incompletion, one interception. Nonetheless, it is that same fighting spirit and will to win that incited Jake's southpaw attempt. Moreover, regardless of the idiot remarks about that attempt, I hope he does not give up that spirit. If Jake sees the opportunity, go for it! Most likely, his arm would not get hit a second time. That winning spirit is one of the big differences between him and a Griese, for instance.

-----


Sure its not like hitting for the cycle.


I want my QB to be a scapper, NO not crapper, scrapper, I want him to go for the gusto. if he has to trhow one away from time to time ok by me but if there is an opening for a good gain. Go for it.

topscribe
08-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Sure its not like hitting for the cycle.


I want my QB to be a scapper, NO not crapper, scrapper, I want him to go for the gusto. if he has to trhow one away from time to time ok by me but if there is an opening for a good gain. Go for it.
That's exactly what I mean. I don't want a quarterback they say "will not lose a game for you." To me, that just means one who trembles at the thought of going for the win!

I even believe Jake's "finger" incident, for which he has been roundly bashed, is a positive one. It shows the grit and fire in that young man. If he is going to go anywhere, it will be with that grit and fire, that winning spirit. Yes, demand better decisions from him, but do not stifle his spirit!

Right?

-----

broncos_mtnman
08-11-2005, 02:17 PM
While it may not seem that way to you and I know you profess to not hating him. But your constant Anti-Jake rhetoric sure appears to be hate to most.

What do you quote in your sig?

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

Just a word to the wise.

You broke your own rule. You're supposed to refer to me as "anti-Jake" only, with no references to hate.

You're right. We are what we repeatedly do. I repeatedly criticize JP. That would make me a critic, not a hater.

broncos_mtnman
08-11-2005, 02:22 PM
I even believe Jake's "finger" incident, for which he has been roundly bashed, is a positive one. It shows the grit and fire in that young man.
-----

You're wrong on this one topster.

His finger incident showed nothing more than a lack of professionalism, and possibly immaturity, which shouldn't exist in a 8 year veteran who's in his 30's (not a young man by the way).

Griese endured much more criticism than Plummer ever has and he never flipped off the fans. Elway never did. Bubby never did. Frerotte never did. Kannell never did.

In fact, name any BRONCO who ever did.

Fire is a great thing, but when it gets out of control, someone usually gets burned.

Broncos04Champs
08-11-2005, 02:24 PM
That's exactly what I mean. I don't want a quarterback they say "will not lose a game for you." To me, that just means one who trembles at the thought of going for the win!

I even believe Jake's "finger" incident, for which he has been roundly bashed, is a positive one. It shows the grit and fire in that young man. If he is going to go anywhere, it will be with that grit and fire, that winning spirit. Yes, demand better decisions from him, but do not stifle his spirit!

Right?

-----

I couldn't agree more. When I saw the highlights of Plummer giving the finger on CBS, I laughed out loud. It was nice to see someone reacting in such a real way. Who knows what exactly was being yelled at him by Broncos "fans", but if I'm not mistaken, it happened early in a game against Miami. A game which they ended up winning. About as low as when the fans booed Elway after the 48-10 loss to the Raiders in 1995, I believe it was. I think a true fan stands by his team and its players through the good times and the bad. There's nothing wrong with having negative opinions of your players, coaches, and/or management, but the good times are much more satisfying when you still support your team through the bad times. I have liked Plummer since his college days, and a big part of that is the intangibles he brings to the table. Brian Griese always seemed mythotical, and lacked the passion to lead his team. Love him or hate him, there's no doubt Jake has the passion.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 03:42 PM
You broke your own rule. You're supposed to refer to me as "anti-Jake" only, with no references to hate.

You're right. We are what we repeatedly do. I repeatedly criticize JP. That would make me a critic, not a hater.


Lets try this again the perception by most is not critisism, but the "other" H word.


Call it what you wish but you are being judged by others.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 03:46 PM
You're wrong on this one topster.

His finger incident showed nothing more than a lack of professionalism, and possibly immaturity, which shouldn't exist in a 8 year veteran who's in his 30's (not a young man by the way).

Griese endured much more criticism than Plummer ever has and he never flipped off the fans. Elway never did. Bubby never did. Frerotte never did. Kannell never did.

In fact, name any BRONCO who ever did.
Fire is a great thing, but when it gets out of control, someone usually gets burned.


This is something you do not know for sure, the only thing YOU know for sure is that the were not caught on camera.

I will go on record saying that without a doubt the others at least thought it.

It is the though that counts.

Jake is not new at being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 03:48 PM
That's exactly what I mean. I don't want a quarterback they say "will not lose a game for you." To me, that just means one who trembles at the thought of going for the win!

I even believe Jake's "finger" incident, for which he has been roundly bashed, is a positive one. It shows the grit and fire in that young man. If he is going to go anywhere, it will be with that grit and fire, that winning spirit. Yes, demand better decisions from him, but do not stifle his spirit!

Right?

-----

Well the digital salute might be a bit over the "top", but never say die that is my QB if I own the team.

The vast majority of the complaining has been the salute, the left handed throw, and his 20 picks.

Without those items what is the Anti-Jake club gonna do?

towels
08-11-2005, 04:32 PM
Elway did flip off Shanny in that infamous raiders game...
the reason Griese didn't do it is that he didn't care at that point.
Frerotte probably tried, but ended up missing and hitting the other team's fans.
:D

towels
08-11-2005, 04:43 PM
OOPS. You're right about the name of the pass.

You're wrong about the "hater" label.

*sighs* You still don't get it.

Then explain to me why you feel the need to cap off every single post you make here with a sig containing a cartoon belittling Jake and all of the Bronco QB backups that is over four times bigger than the info you are actually posting? I will accept your actual analysis and opinions as criticism, but your avatar and sig billboard that go along with each and every post you make push it into a realm I'd expect to see more on oakland boards than Bronco ones.

bcbronc
08-11-2005, 04:49 PM
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either. :goofy:

-----


but manning did it at the opponents 40 or so. jake did it from his own 5 yard line. big difference...

:coffee:

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 07:35 PM
but manning did it at the opponents 40 or so. jake did it from his own 5 yard line. big difference...

:coffee:

I believe it was in the endzone or close enough to the goal he was afraid of taking the safety for a sure 2 points.

You are probably thinking it was a 5-7 yard runback for a TD.

I could be wrong on this but don't think so.

topscribe
08-11-2005, 08:47 PM
but manning did it at the opponents 40 or so. jake did it from his own 5 yard line. big difference...

:coffee:
Well, now I've been led to the understanding Manning did it three times.
Were they all at the opponents' 40?

-----

bcbronc
08-11-2005, 09:19 PM
Well, now I've been led to the understanding Manning did it three times.
Were they all at the opponents' 40?

-----

you tell me. i saw one but i dont know about the other two. i cant even confirm the other two happened (not disputing they did, only stating i know nothing about them). but i bet none were from the shadow of his goalposts.

it was a bonehead play, plain and simple. there is no "if only his arm wasnt hit", it was. whether manning threw 18 left handed passes and 17 were picked doesnt change the fact that plumbers was a boneheaded play. hopefully it will make plummer a better qb for this season.

i'm all for getting behind jake and supporting him 100% but dont make excuses for him. he doesnt need them.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 09:31 PM
you tell me. i saw one but i dont know about the other two. i cant even confirm the other two happened (not disputing they did, only stating i know nothing about them). but i bet none were from the shadow of his goalposts.

it was a bonehead play, plain and simple. there is no "if only his arm wasnt hit", it was. whether manning threw 18 left handed passes and 17 were picked doesnt change the fact that plumbers was a boneheaded play. hopefully it will make plummer a better qb for this season.

i'm all for getting behind jake and supporting him 100% but dont make excuses for him. he doesnt need them.
..
One mans intreptation is Bone head, anothers is smart move trying to get rid of a sure safety.

NO one is making excuses for Jake merely stating facts.

I suspect that throwing a left handed pass inside ones 20 yard line is forever ingrained in his head with all the bonehead sniping that was and IS ebing done from folks that do not have the guts to call him that to his face.

AZ Snake Fan
08-11-2005, 09:44 PM
--- Jrhampton and topscribe --- are your faces blue --- ??? :cheers:

--- i was wondering, does anyone recall manning dropping back to pass, his pocket crumbles, he dashes to the left , then he scrambles to the right, dodging would be tacklers along the way, rolling to the right sideline, until he is almost out of bounds, then launches a bomb across his body, deep to a wide open receiver in the left corner of the end zone ??? --- az

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 09:46 PM
Elway did flip off Shanny in that infamous raiders game...
the reason Griese didn't do it is that he didn't care at that point.
Frerotte probably tried, but ended up missing and hitting the other team's fans.
:D

This post probably needs to be stickied as all the Anti-Jake crowd can be reminded the next time someone brings it up.

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 10:08 PM
--- Jrhampton and topscribe --- are your faces blue --- ??? :cheers:

--- i was wondering, does anyone recall manning dropping back to pass, his pocket crumbles, he dashes to the left , then he scrambles to the right, dodging would be tacklers along the way, rolling to the right sideline, until he is almost out of bounds, then launches a bomb across his body, deep to a wide open receiver in the left corner of the end zone ??? --- az



Payton or eli.

Cause to my knowledge unless we are under nuclear attack are they scramblers.

Maybe it was archie?

Or their Cousin Frances T Manning played for the viking for years.
Why Blue in the face?

topscribe
08-11-2005, 10:11 PM
you tell me. i saw one but i dont know about the other two. i cant even confirm the other two happened (not disputing they did, only stating i know nothing about them). but i bet none were from the shadow of his goalposts.

it was a bonehead play, plain and simple. there is no "if only his arm wasnt hit", it was. whether manning threw 18 left handed passes and 17 were picked doesnt change the fact that plumbers was a boneheaded play. hopefully it will make plummer a better qb for this season.

i'm all for getting behind jake and supporting him 100% but dont make excuses for him. he doesnt need them.
That all sounds real nice, and of course the "excuses" label once again has been brought out. Now, have you ever heard of an arm being hit during a right-handed pass?

Really, I weary of this "excuses" business. You call my explanation an "excuse" as if your proclamation makes it so. Well, it does not. I don't believe it is an excuse when I say DO IT AGAIN, JAKE!!

-----

Ravage!!!
08-11-2005, 10:14 PM
:beer:
you tell me. i saw one but i dont know about the other two. i cant even confirm the other two happened (not disputing they did, only stating i know nothing about them). but i bet none were from the shadow of his goalposts.

it was a bonehead play, plain and simple. there is no "if only his arm wasnt hit", it was. whether manning threw 18 left handed passes and 17 were picked doesnt change the fact that plumbers was a boneheaded play. hopefully it will make plummer a better qb for this season.

i'm all for getting behind jake and supporting him 100% but dont make excuses for him. he doesnt need them.

:beer: .................

topscribe
08-11-2005, 10:14 PM
--- Jrhampton and topscribe --- are your faces blue --- ??? :cheers:

--- i was wondering, does anyone recall manning dropping back to pass, his pocket crumbles, he dashes to the left , then he scrambles to the right, dodging would be tacklers along the way, rolling to the right sideline, until he is almost out of bounds, then launches a bomb across his body, deep to a wide open receiver in the left corner of the end zone ??? --- az
Of course, you must be talking about Jake since Manning is not capable of all that?

-----

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 10:20 PM
Of course, you must be talking about Jake since Manning is not capable of all that?

-----


I got it! It was Jake P Manning a third cousin two times removed.

AZ Snake Fan
08-11-2005, 10:26 PM
Of course, you must be talking about Jake since Manning is not capable of all that?

-----

--- Roger that --- and the reference to you and Jrhampton was pertaining to the fact that you guys have been noble defenders for months --- thus --- "blue in the face'' --- i must give you gentleman a lot of credit for your patience and perserverence --- i am looking forward to let Jake "do the talking" when the season starts!!! --- kudos to you guys!!! --- az

AZ Snake Fan
08-11-2005, 10:29 PM
--- i was wondering, does anyone recall manning dropping back to pass, his pocket crumbles, he dashes to the left , then he scrambles to the right, dodging would be tacklers along the way, rolling to the right sideline, until he is almost out of bounds, then launches a bomb across his body, deep to a wide open receiver in the left corner of the end zone ??? --- az

--- this is a question and the answer is NO!!! --- az

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 10:41 PM
--- Roger that --- and the reference to you and Jrhampton was pertaining to the fact that you guys have been noble defenders for months --- thus --- "blue in the face'' --- i must give you gentleman a lot of credit for your patience and perserverence --- i am looking forward to let Jake "do the talking" when the season starts!!! --- kudos to you guys!!! --- az


Thanks for the compliment. Never been called a gentleman before, wow I'm honored.

All donations are greatly accepted.

I H-word to hear folks spout crap and half truths about anyone.

I to believe that Jake will also shut a lot of crictics' mouths this year.

But of course we will always have the ankle biting Anti-Jake groupies out there, that see nothing but negatives in this kid.

There will always be greasies cousins, and John Is God worshippers on this board. Regardless of who the QB is or will be their memories of these two will linger on.

Truth, Justice and the American Way.

topscribe
08-11-2005, 10:47 PM
--- Roger that --- and the reference to you and Jrhampton was pertaining to the fact that you guys have been noble defenders for months --- thus --- "blue in the face'' --- i must give you gentleman a lot of credit for your patience and perserverence --- i am looking forward to let Jake "do the talking" when the season starts!!! --- kudos to you guys!!! --- az
Yes, I got the "blue face" implication. :cheers:

I also understood the sarcasm of your question, AZ. The fact of it is . . . . and I know it is what you're getting at . . . . Jake can make plays no one else can, with the exception probably of Brett Favre. (Vick probably could if he could keep his passes between the sidelines.) So many here have described Jake as "ordinary" or "mediocre," or even "bad." Shanny has stood on the sidelines, personally coaching the likes of Montana, Young, and Elway. He was right there, day after day, as anyone here on these boards was not. Shanny chose to provide Jake with a multi-million dollar bonus to play for him . . . . after watching those other guys in person. Walsh compared Jake to Montana. (If anyone takes exception to Jake's being compared to Montana, they'll have to take it up with Walsh. I didn't say it.)

But I suppose we are going to have to acquiesce with these anti-Jake people and naysayers and boobirds. After all, they are far more knowledgeable than Shanny or Walsh.

-----

JRWIZ
08-11-2005, 10:55 PM
Yes, I got the "blue face" implication. :cheers:

I also understood the sarcasm of your question, AZ. The fact of it is . . . . and I know it is what you're getting at . . . . Jake can make plays no one else can, with the exception probably of Brett Favre. (Vick probably could if he could keep his passes between the sidelines.) So many here have described Jake as "ordinary" or "mediocre," or even "bad." Shanny has stood on the sidelines, personally coaching the likes of Montana, Young, and Elway. He was right there, day after day, as anyone here on these boards was not. Shanny chose to provide Jake with a multi-million dollar bonus to play for him . . . . after watching those other guys in person. Walsh compared Jake to Montana. (If anyone takes exception to Jake's being compared to Montana, they'll have to take it up with Walsh. I didn't say it.)

But I suppose we are going to have to acquiesce with these anti-Jake people and naysayers and boobirds. After all, they are far more knowledgeable than Shanny or Walsh.

-----

Another great post.

Going to bed now, hold down Fort Jake for me I'm goning to another Volleyball Tournament my Daughter is in this weekend. Will be gone most of FRI and Sat.

Points to you if the stupid computer will let me.

bcbronc
08-11-2005, 11:10 PM
[QUOTE=Jrhampton]..
One mans intreptation is Bone head, anothers is smart move trying to get rid of a sure safety.

NO one is making excuses for Jake merely stating facts.

QUOTE]

two points is less than seven. thats a fact.

bcbronc
08-11-2005, 11:15 PM
That all sounds real nice, and of course the "excuses" label once again has been brought out. Now, have you ever heard of an arm being hit during a right-handed pass?

Really, I weary of this "excuses" business. You call my explanation an "excuse" as if your proclamation makes it so. Well, it does not. I don't believe it is an excuse when I say DO IT AGAIN, JAKE!!

-----


what possible reason could you have for wanting jake to do a boneheaded play that goes the other way for a touchdown again?

:confused:

topscribe
08-11-2005, 11:55 PM
what possible reason could you have for wanting jake to do a boneheaded play that goes the other way for a touchdown again?

:confused:
Once again, you're using "boneheaded" as if we're in agreement as to that description. Nonetheless, you seem awfully sure it would go for a touchdown the other way again. Is that the way you would feel about a right-handed interception that was returned for a touchdown? I can name at least 32 active QBs who have thrown an interception returned for a touchdown at some time in their careers. So perhaps we ought just to dispense with the forward pass altogether?

Jake tried to make something happen. It blew up on him. Stuff happens. That makes it "boneheaded" in your eyes, not mine.

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Ravage!!!
08-12-2005, 07:46 PM
Top... SURELy.. even you.. even your orange colored glasses MUST see that it WAS a boneheaded play. There is NO way you can say it wasn't a boneheaded play and in ANY way sound justified or legitimate. I think that even YOU are stretching this one by actually trying to say that you find that kind of play a "good" thing or attribute on his part. There have been TONS and TONS of QBs that try everything they can to win. Some have even done opposite handed passes of their own. But EVERY QB must know the situation enough as to when or NOT to do somethng that foolish. Yes it was a mistake. YES it has been WAY overblown as to being used as a MAIN reason to not like Jake. But to actually try to suggest that the play was NOT boneheaded or foolish.. is JUST as bad as them using it as a main detractor.

If a CB, makes a GREAT break, read, and reaction and intercepts a pass, RIGHT out of the fingertips of the opposing WR 30 yards downfield.... but he does it on FOURTH down.. its a boneheaded play.. DESPITE the great play. He lost the team 30 yards by making a great play on the ball. Jake COST the Denver Broncos 5 points on that play. It didn't matter in THAT game.. but it COULD have. The fact that he didn't have enough sense, at THAT time, in THAT situation, makes it a BONEHEADED play.

The thing is... its ok that it was a boneheaded play. We don't have to try and convince people that it wasn't.. no matter HOW much you wish to support Plummer. ALLLLLlllll QBs in the NFL have made Boneheaded plays. ALL of them. This was just one of Jake's. But please don't try and convince people that you ACTUALLY believe this wasn't a boneheaded play, and only an "effort" to do something. Because they ALL try to do something when the time is RIGHT. Not realizing when the time is right, and when its NOT right, is what makes it boneheaded.

topscribe
08-12-2005, 08:23 PM
Top... SURELy.. even you.. even your orange colored glasses MUST see that it WAS a boneheaded play. There is NO way you can say it wasn't a boneheaded play and in ANY way sound justified or legitimate. I think that even YOU are stretching this one by actually trying to say that you find that kind of play a "good" thing or attribute on his part. There have been TONS and TONS of QBs that try everything they can to win. Some have even done opposite handed passes of their own. But EVERY QB must know the situation enough as to when or NOT to do somethng that foolish. Yes it was a mistake. YES it has been WAY overblown as to being used as a MAIN reason to not like Jake. But to actually try to suggest that the play was NOT boneheaded or foolish.. is JUST as bad as them using it as a main detractor.

If a CB, makes a GREAT break, read, and reaction and intercepts a pass, RIGHT out of the fingertips of the opposing WR 30 yards downfield.... but he does it on FOURTH down.. its a boneheaded play.. DESPITE the great play. He lost the team 30 yards by making a great play on the ball. Jake COST the Denver Broncos 5 points on that play. It didn't matter in THAT game.. but it COULD have. The fact that he didn't have enough sense, at THAT time, in THAT situation, makes it a BONEHEADED play.

The thing is... its ok that it was a boneheaded play. We don't have to try and convince people that it wasn't.. no matter HOW much you wish to support Plummer. ALLLLLlllll QBs in the NFL have made Boneheaded plays. ALL of them. This was just one of Jake's. But please don't try and convince people that you ACTUALLY believe this wasn't a boneheaded play, and only an "effort" to do something. Because they ALL try to do something when the time is RIGHT. Not realizing when the time is right, and when its NOT right, is what makes it boneheaded.
Read this again, very carefully: "That makes it 'boneheaded' in your eyes, not mine." That was from my most recent post in this thread. Does that sound as if I am trying to persuade someone? It sounds more to me like I was saying you believe your way and I'll believe mine. Since I am the one who said it, I believe I should carry the most weight as to my intended message.

Nonetheless, once again, Rav, you have me doing something I was not doing. All I was saying was that "boneheaded" is in the eye of the viewer. Because a play did not work out does not make it "boneheaded." So, at the risk of once again incurring your accusation that I was trying to "convince" you, I will repeat that in your eyes that specific play was "boneheaded," and in my eyes that specific play was not.

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JRWIZ
08-12-2005, 09:39 PM
Top... SURELy.. even you.. even your orange colored glasses MUST see that it WAS a boneheaded play. There is NO way you can say it wasn't a boneheaded play and in ANY way sound justified or legitimate. I think that even YOU are stretching this one by actually trying to say that you find that kind of play a "good" thing or attribute on his part. There have been TONS and TONS of QBs that try everything they can to win. Some have even done opposite handed passes of their own. But EVERY QB must know the situation enough as to when or NOT to do somethng that foolish. Yes it was a mistake. YES it has been WAY overblown as to being used as a MAIN reason to not like Jake. But to actually try to suggest that the play was NOT boneheaded or foolish.. is JUST as bad as them using it as a main detractor.

If a CB, makes a GREAT break, read, and reaction and intercepts a pass, RIGHT out of the fingertips of the opposing WR 30 yards downfield.... but he does it on FOURTH down.. its a boneheaded play.. DESPITE the great play. He lost the team 30 yards by making a great play on the ball. Jake COST the Denver Broncos 5 points on that play. It didn't matter in THAT game.. but it COULD have. The fact that he didn't have enough sense, at THAT time, in THAT situation, makes it a BONEHEADED play.

The thing is... its ok that it was a boneheaded play. We don't have to try and convince people that it wasn't.. no matter HOW much you wish to support Plummer. ALLLLLlllll QBs in the NFL have made Boneheaded plays. ALL of them. This was just one of Jake's. But please don't try and convince people that you ACTUALLY believe this wasn't a boneheaded play, and only an "effort" to do something. Because they ALL try to do something when the time is RIGHT. Not realizing when the time is right, and when its NOT right, is what makes it boneheaded.


If he knew or strongly thought that the play would be interceped and run back yes it would be a boneheaded play.

But, Jake saw a receiver and attempted the play, because he thought he could make it. Without the risk of a pick and that it would save the team 2 points.

Little did he know that the arm would be hit as he was attempting the throw. If he did know that would happen then I'd be the first one to berate him.

Do you honestly think he took that risk KNOWING that he could not make the play? OR that his arm would be hit?

But IMHO no one in the right mind would throw tha pass left or right haned if they knew he was gonna get his arm hit as he threw it.

I want the type of QB that goes for the gusto. Not the safe 3 yards pick up passes.

I want someone like John Elway, Brett Farve, and Jake that have the balls to bring a team back from behind and win the game.

I know, there I did it again used Jake and John in the same sentence. But I'm ok with it because I know, that Jake is a special QB perhaps not as good as John but special, the gusty guy that will give up his body to move the chains.

You don't agree ok by me. Just don't go hyper when someone does.

You think that Jake is an ok QB, I guess I don't have the same on the moon high standards that you do.

I suspect if Jake had the same talent surrounding him that John in his superbowls years of 97-99 Much the same thing would have happened. IMHO

bcbronc
08-12-2005, 11:47 PM
well top and jr might think it was a good play but jake himself seemed to think it was "stupid".


Broncos QB Jake Plummer on what he was thinking when he threw a left-handed pass he normally throws with his right hand that was intercepted and led to a touchdown last week vs. the Chiefs: I hate having bad plays like that. Im a competitor. Im a scrapper. I want to try and do stuff. Those are those things when you blow a gasket and you do something. You look at it and youre able to laugh at it, thankfully, because we pulled out the win. But I cant tell you what was going through my head. I was just trying to do something, and it was stupid.

link (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/They+Said+It/2004/said091404.htm)profootballweekly.com

ya its good to have a qb that doesnt quit, thats always fighting and clawing and doing whatever it take to win but its even better to have one that knows when to pick his spots. as they say, sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. sometimes trying too hard is just as bad as not trying hard enough.

im all for supporting jake but i wont make excuses for his meltdowns. and im sure he would have it no other way. for the broncos, our team, to get to the next level jakes decision making has to become more consistant. can it? i think it can and i expect this to be the year. i'm not asking him to be ultra conservative, always play it safe and make no mistakes. i just ask that he learn to play within himself.
but i support jake 100%, warts and all.

AZ Snake Fan
08-13-2005, 12:05 AM
--- the key phrase in that quote was "I was just trying to do something" --- Jake is always trying to do something --- in fact, he baffles the opposition's coaching staff, because they can never tell what Jake will try to pull next --- i know we've torn apart the "if" factor , but if Jake pulled that play off, you would still be seeing clips on ESPN --- Jake called it stupid because it didn't work --- Jake always puts blame on himself and he never dumps on his teammates --- az

topscribe
08-13-2005, 12:18 AM
well top and jr might think it was a good play but jake himself seemed to think it was "stupid".



ya its good to have a qb that doesnt quit, thats always fighting and clawing and doing whatever it take to win but its even better to have one that knows when to pick his spots. as they say, sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. sometimes trying too hard is just as bad as not trying hard enough.

im all for supporting jake but i wont make excuses for his meltdowns. and im sure he would have it no other way. for the broncos, our team, to get to the next level jakes decision making has to become more consistant. can it? i think it can and i expect this to be the year. i'm not asking him to be ultra conservative, always play it safe and make no mistakes. i just ask that he learn to play within himself.
but i support jake 100%, warts and all.
Well, bcbronc, I assume this will be somewhat of a surprise to you, but I am going to compliment you for your good post. You showed a great deal of balance in your comment. I just don't want Jake to feel unduly restrained to where he cannot take advantage of his considerable talents. He will always throw an occasional (hopefully fewer, however) interception a Brady or Manning, for instance, would not normally throw. Yet he will also be able to pull off plays of which neither Brady nor Manning is capable. Favre can do that, and, for all his "boneheaded" errors, Favre does wear a ring, doesn't he?

Maybe Jake will, too. We'll see.

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Kaufman26
08-13-2005, 12:38 AM
I agree, Plummer is the King of the INT
you mean, Jake ""Left Hand"" Plummer?

topscribe
08-13-2005, 09:36 AM
you mean, Jake ""Left Hand"" Plummer?
I guess you didn't bother to read any of the rest of this thread?

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Kaufman26
08-13-2005, 09:56 AM
I guess you didn't bother to read any of the rest of this thread?

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when i posted that i only read that king of interception post

Ravage!!!
08-14-2005, 04:23 PM
If he knew or strongly thought that the play would be interceped and run back yes it would be a boneheaded play.
Well JR, then by this definition, every time Plummer throws an INT he KNOWS its going to be intercepted, thus each one is a boneheaded throw? Not in my opinion. There are lots of times a QB, all QBs, make good throws that get intercepted. The throw from Plummer out of the endzone was STRICTLY an attempt on his part to throw the ball away. Sure he was trying to save the safety, and CERTAINLY he didn't know the ball was going to be intercepted. If he KNEW when the ball was going to be intercepted, then I'm guessing he wouldn't average over 20 a year. The fact that he TRIED to throw a left handed pass from the endzone is boneheaded. Seriously. EVEN if it had been caught... it would have been a BONEHEADED play that HAPPENED to work out. It was a BONEHEADED attempt.. period. That doesn't mean I think Plummer (I'm no longer going to use the word that is constantly highlighted in orange without me wanting it to be highlighed in orange)should be judged on that one play. That was one of his BIGGEST boneheaded decisions. So what. All QBs make them, but to try and make excuses.. even as far as saying it was because his "arm was hit".. is just taking the excuse thing too far. A QB doesn't throw 20+ INTS 63% of his career because he DOESN'T make poor decisions. He does. The one from the endzone just happened to be his worst. I personally don't think we should judge anyone from their WORST decision or their WORST play. Thats silly.

But, Jake saw a receiver and attempted the play, because he thought he could make it. Without the risk of a pick and that it would save the team 2 points.
Yeah. I don't know if Plummer really saw a receiver. I think he was just throwing it to get rid of it.. to try and save the obvious safety. In reality... if the ball would have fallen incomplete, it most likely could have been ruled intentional grounding..thus giving up the safety anway. If it had been with his normal throwing arm, then it would have been just a BAD play... but considering it was him switching hands, we have to admite (as I truly think even HE would admit), it was a BONEHEADED play. I don't care if his arm was 'bumped' or whatever. He switched the ball into his left hand because he was being hit from the right side, correct? So of COURSE he was being 'hit' as he threw it.

Little did he know that the arm would be hit as he was attempting the throw. If he did know that would happen then I'd be the first one to berate him. Do you honestly think he took that risk KNOWING that he could not make the play? OR that his arm would be hit?Jr. Of course he knew his arm was going to be bumped ( he as basically in the grasp already). Isn't this football? A contact sport? Wasn't he just about to be sacked for the safety? Wouldn't it just fall into reason to know that you are NOT going to throw an accurate pass, with the opposite hand, when you're about to be sacked?? I mean.. the whole "bumped left arm" thing.... is REALLY stretching the limits of justification on this.

I suspect if Jake had the same talent surrounding him that John in his superbowls years of 97-99 Much the same thing would have happened. IMHO
well.. I don't know if thats the case of not. I don't think Plummer can perform at an Elway level.. and I think that John played very well in that Super Bowl vs GB. I'm not going to argue this, because this is strictly just an opinion, and can't be debated. I respect that you feel this way. I personally don't think that Plummer could have beaten GB.

The simple point that I was making in reference to this "boneheaded" thing... was simply to say that its ONE thing to defend your favorite players. It's another to completely ignore their mistakes and try to justify them. The "left handed pass from your own endzone would have been a good play had he not had his arm bumped" one is the epitomy of stretching for an excuse. To tell me that Plummer wouldn't have thrown the pass had he KNOWN it was going to be intercepted, well... is obvious. Fans rely on their QB to be able to know the risks of taking such a ... "boneheaded".... attempt from your own endzone. There are just too many BAD things that can happen. Thats not the time to be gutsy, daring, and to "go for it." Thats the time to be careful, smart, no mistakes. ANY time...ANYTIME... you are backed up into your own endzone you throw safe passes or you throw it away out of bounds. Why? Because a turn-over is automatic points for the other team, even if they don't move a yard. So although having a gutsy QB is FUN to have... you want that gutsy QB to have the veteran intelligence to say to himself "ya know, this just isn't the time."

Personally. I think its cool that you guys back Plummer so hard. But at the same time, it takes away from a lot of your GOOD points when you try to defend and justify the REALLY REALLY obvious bad ones (or play in this case).

JRWIZ
08-14-2005, 07:45 PM
Yeah. I don't know if Plummer really saw a receiver. I think he was just throwing it to get rid of it.. to try and save the obvious safety. In reality... if the ball would have fallen incomplete, it most likely could have been ruled intentional grounding..thus giving up the safety anway. If it had been with his normal throwing arm, then it would have been just a BAD play... but considering it was him switching hands, we have to admite (as I truly think even HE would admit), it was a BONEHEADED play. I don't care if his arm was 'bumped' or whatever. He switched the ball into his left hand because he was being hit from the right side, correct? So of COURSE he was being 'hit' as he threw it.

well.. I don't know if thats the case of not. I don't think Plummer can perform at an Elway level.. and I think that John played very well in that Super Bowl vs GB. I'm not going to argue this, because this is strictly just an opinion, and can't be debated. I respect that you feel this way. I personally don't think that Plummer could have beaten GB.

The simple point that I was making in reference to this "boneheaded" thing... was simply to say that its ONE thing to defend your favorite players. It's another to completely ignore their mistakes and try to justify them. The "left handed pass from your own endzone would have been a good play had he not had his arm bumped" one is the epitomy of stretching for an excuse. To tell me that Plummer wouldn't have thrown the pass had he KNOWN it was going to be intercepted, well... is obvious. Fans rely on their QB to be able to know the risks of taking such a ... "boneheaded".... attempt from your own endzone. There are just too many BAD things that can happen. Thats not the time to be gutsy, daring, and to "go for it." Thats the time to be careful, smart, no mistakes. ANY time...ANYTIME... you are backed up into your own endzone you throw safe passes or you throw it away out of bounds. Why? Because a turn-over is automatic points for the other team, even if they don't move a yard. So although having a gutsy QB is FUN to have... you want that gutsy QB to have the veteran intelligence to say to himself "ya know, this just isn't the time."

Personally. I think its cool that you guys back Plummer so hard. But at the same time, it takes away from a lot of your GOOD points when you try to defend and justify the REALLY REALLY obvious bad ones (or play in this case).


As does yours. Your opinion is just as valid as my or Tops or many of the other Bronco fans.

You say excuse, I say reason. Who is right is? Is dependent upon who is reading and what preconceived idea they have.

As demonstrated in past polls on the subject +80%, almost 90% fall unto my side of the debate.

Since Mikey still likes the guy it must frustrate alot of folks 10-15% that Jake is still our QB.

In this particular case I'm not necessarily lumping Ravage into this catagory while you are not in love with him you wish him no evil like very small group does.

Ravage!!!
08-14-2005, 08:54 PM
wow.. I did a really bad job of boxing in My quotes and posts on that last one before you quoted me. Please re-read my post sometime (not that its going to change your opinion,) its just a better post than the one I originally posted.

Ravage!!!
08-14-2005, 08:55 PM
come to think of it, how do I give myself cp?? :D

Zanataki
08-14-2005, 09:06 PM
If forums were around when Elway was playing bad and throwing picks I think it would happen the same way as you are all doing now. Let's not forget he has been to the playoffs a few times since he has been here. Digressing(In my SS mode in Madden JP has like 40 TD and 10 ints which is weird because Madden always makes them lose to anyone but the cardinals.)

MileHighMagic07
08-15-2005, 01:39 AM
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either.

No, Manning is a good QB, i didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth tops. But there are certain situations to try a left handed throw if its the easiest play available to make, not from your own goalline while being sacked blindly throwing it right into the breadbasket of another team's player... thats just dumb. and it seems jake always does dumber things near each endzone, against oakland the interception when he scrambled away from pressure and could have ran for a first down instead throwing in the endzone and being intercepted, once again... against carolina throwing to julius peppers (not our team) and him running it all the way back to the our 1 yard line or so. just a bonehead, doesnt make good decisions when its important. say what you want about jake's stats, and he broke elway's record or whatever, when it all comes down to it, i wouldn't want plumber starting in the playoffs on my team, one bonehead mistake in the playoffs and you are out. you guys better hope tatum bell, or lelie, or someone has a sensational year to take us to the big game because jake sure as hell ain't gonna be responsible for anything spectacular. and don't count on him for anything special this season, he'll have his fare share of bonehead interceptions i guarantee it, its been going for 9 or 10 years straight, who's gonna stop him now...

JRWIZ
08-15-2005, 06:40 AM
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either.

No, Manning is a good QB, i didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth tops. But there are certain situations to try a left handed throw if its the easiest play available to make, not from your own goalline while being sacked blindly throwing it right into the breadbasket of another team's player... thats just dumb. and it seems jake always does dumber things near each endzone, against oakland the interception when he scrambled away from pressure and could have ran for a first down instead throwing in the endzone and being intercepted, once again... against carolina throwing to julius peppers (not our team) and him running it all the way back to the our 1 yard line or so. just a bonehead, doesnt make good decisions when its important. say what you want about jake's stats, and he broke elway's record or whatever, when it all comes down to it, i wouldn't want plumber starting in the playoffs on my team, one bonehead mistake in the playoffs and you are out. you guys better hope tatum bell, or lelie, or someone has a sensational year to take us to the big game because jake sure as hell ain't gonna be responsible for anything spectacular. and don't count on him for anything special this season, he'll have his fare share of bonehead interceptions i guarantee it, its been going for 9 or 10 years straight, who's gonna stop him now...


What happened in 2003? better than a 2-1 TD/I ratio. Kinda blows that theory don't you think?

topscribe
08-15-2005, 09:49 AM
As a matter of fact, Manning tried one that I thought went for a completion and big yardage because his arm was not hit, as was Jake's. Another poster, however, stated that Manning's L.H. throw was also intercepted, so now I am left in doubt. However, I do know that Manning at least attempted such a pass, so according to the MileHighMagic07 guy, Mannning must not be a good QB, either.

No, Manning is a good QB, i didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth tops. But there are certain situations to try a left handed throw if its the easiest play available to make, not from your own goalline while being sacked blindly throwing it right into the breadbasket of another team's player... thats just dumb. and it seems jake always does dumber things near each endzone, against oakland the interception when he scrambled away from pressure and could have ran for a first down instead throwing in the endzone and being intercepted, once again... against carolina throwing to julius peppers (not our team) and him running it all the way back to the our 1 yard line or so. just a bonehead, doesnt make good decisions when its important. say what you want about jake's stats, and he broke elway's record or whatever, when it all comes down to it, i wouldn't want plumber starting in the playoffs on my team, one bonehead mistake in the playoffs and you are out. you guys better hope tatum bell, or lelie, or someone has a sensational year to take us to the big game because jake sure as hell ain't gonna be responsible for anything spectacular. and don't count on him for anything special this season, he'll have his fare share of bonehead interceptions i guarantee it, its been going for 9 or 10 years straight, who's gonna stop him now...
Why all this use of bandwidth over ONE attempted pass? Jake attempted 521 passes last year, and you are fixated on that ONE pass? I have just one response to that, a final response:



CHILL

:coffee:

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MileHighMagic07
08-15-2005, 04:07 PM
What happened in 2003? better than a 2-1 TD/I ratio. Kinda blows that theory don't you think?

You're right, my bad... okay i'll give him that one year... now what about the other 8/9 years??? :sick:

MileHighMagic07
08-15-2005, 04:09 PM
Why all this use of bandwidth over ONE attempted pass? Jake attempted 521 passes last year, and you are fixated on that ONE pass? I have just one response to that, a final response:


CHILL



521 passes attempted, great... but that ONE pass could be the ONE that knocks us out of the playoffs or ends our season... he's gotta stop those ONE passes... too many times he tries those ONE passes as you call them... now we can chill

topscribe
08-15-2005, 07:12 PM
What happened in 2003? better than a 2-1 TD/I ratio. Kinda blows that theory don't you think?

You're right, my bad... okay i'll give him that one year... now what about the other 8/9 years??? :sick:
What about them? Why don't you forget them? Jake did not play for the Broncos then. You obviously have no idea what really happened on that other team, else you would not be making such comments. For the Broncos the last two years, Jake has a 19-8 regular season record. That's all you need to be concerned about.

Unless you are a Cardinals fan? :huh:

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topscribe
08-15-2005, 07:18 PM
521 passes attempted, great... but that ONE pass could be the ONE that knocks us out of the playoffs or ends our season... he's gotta stop those ONE passes... too many times he tries those ONE passes as you call them... now we can chill
How can you say ONE PASS took us out of the playoffs? :goofy:

If that's the case, then we need to bash Rod Smith for the ONE PASS he dropped in the end zone or the ONE PASS Watts dropped in the end zone. Either one of those would have won the game. Or maybe we can pick out ONE PASS Champ was beat on against Oakland in a game that was decided by ONE POINT.

Now, are you ready to conduct an intelligent discussion?

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Ravage!!!
08-15-2005, 08:51 PM
How can you say ONE PASS took us out of the playoffs? :goofy:

If that's the case, then we need to bash Rod Smith for the ONE PASS he dropped in the end zone or the ONE PASS Watts dropped in the end zone. Either one of those would have won the game. Or maybe we can pick out ONE PASS Champ was beat on against Oakland in a game that was decided by ONE POINT.

Now, are you ready to conduct an intelligent discussion?

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I don't think he was literally talking about the ONE pass. I think he was using it more of an example of the "one pass" being the pass that was "A" bad decision.. not THE bad pass that was THE bad decision.

JRWIZ
08-16-2005, 10:51 PM
How can you say ONE PASS took us out of the playoffs? :goofy:

If that's the case, then we need to bash Rod Smith for the ONE PASS he dropped in the end zone or the ONE PASS Watts dropped in the end zone. Either one of those would have won the game. Or maybe we can pick out ONE PASS Champ was beat on against Oakland in a game that was decided by ONE POINT.

Now, are you ready to conduct an intelligent discussion?

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Thank you TOP for answering that one. and the the others.

Somehow I missed these posts.


Some folks will find something wrong NO MATTER how much good as been done.

You KNOW the GLASS is almost empty kinda folks.

Never will they be happy with anyone else except the exalted one. King of QB's. Ruler of the Bronco nation.

JRWIZ
08-16-2005, 10:58 PM
I don't think he was literally talking about the ONE pass. I think he was using it more of an example of the "one pass" being the pass that was "A" bad decision.. not THE bad pass that was THE bad decision.

I see your point but what about the other 500 some odd passes. and of all the completions, TD's , First downs, Scrambles for yardage, naked Bootlegs.

What about the others do they not counts also. A 500 some odd to one ratio is awfully intense. A bit more intolerant than in most jobs.

No one lost their lives, do you suppose the risk factor in Heart surgery is higher than 500 to one?

MileHighMagic07
08-17-2005, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHighMagic07
521 passes attempted, great... but that ONE pass could be the ONE that knocks us out of the playoffs or ends our season... he's gotta stop those ONE passes... too many times he tries those ONE passes as you call them... now we can chill

How can you say ONE PASS took us out of the playoffs?

If that's the case, then we need to bash Rod Smith for the ONE PASS he dropped in the end zone or the ONE PASS Watts dropped in the end zone. Either one of those would have won the game. Or maybe we can pick out ONE PASS Champ was beat on against Oakland in a game that was decided by ONE POINT.

Now, are you ready to conduct an intelligent discussion?

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__________________
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." - My daddy

Bronco fan since September 9, 1960
Denver Broncos 13 Boston Patriots 10
First AFL game ever played

I adopted Luther Elliss.
Where's the first aid kit?











read the question carefully before you answer old man, read it over and over.. try to understand the question before you post your stubborn replies... mr intelligent :goofy:

topscribe
08-17-2005, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHighMagic07
521 passes attempted, great... but that ONE pass could be the ONE that knocks us out of the playoffs or ends our season... he's gotta stop those ONE passes... too many times he tries those ONE passes as you call them... now we can chill

How can you say ONE PASS took us out of the playoffs?

If that's the case, then we need to bash Rod Smith for the ONE PASS he dropped in the end zone or the ONE PASS Watts dropped in the end zone. Either one of those would have won the game. Or maybe we can pick out ONE PASS Champ was beat on against Oakland in a game that was decided by ONE POINT.

Now, are you ready to conduct an intelligent discussion?

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__________________
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." - My daddy

Bronco fan since September 9, 1960
Denver Broncos 13 Boston Patriots 10
First AFL game ever played

I adopted Luther Elliss.
Where's the first aid kit?











read the question carefully before you answer old man, read it over and over.. try to understand the question before you post your stubborn replies... mr intelligent :goofy:
First of all, try to learn how to quote a post. It seems everyone on these boards except you knows how to do it. (What a mess! :sick: )

Second, perhaps you ought to give up trying to discuss an issue. It appears everything here is going way over your head.

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rcsodak
08-17-2005, 09:31 PM
First of all, try to learn how to quote a post. It seems everyone on these boards except you knows how to do it. (What a mess! :sick: )

Second, perhaps you ought to give up trying to discuss an issue. It appears everything here is going way over your head.

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testy testy, top....... ;)

How 'bout you, jr, me, az, and all the rest of the pro-jakesters start our own Jake Club on here?
Anybody else wants to join, they have to prove their allegiance, and paypal us each $5. MLM at it's finest!:D

dabreeze1984
08-18-2005, 06:10 AM
To be honest yes, he has thrown more than his fair share unfortunately :huh:
Elway had some bad years also.....which he got through and overcame.
Elways bad years were from bad coaching and the snake hasnt had "some bad years" they have all be bad

topscribe
08-18-2005, 06:46 AM
Elways bad years were from bad coaching and the snake hasnt had "some bad years" they have all be bad
During Jake's most recent two bad years the Broncos were 19-8 in the regular seasons.
I'll take some more of those "bad years."

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Peerless
08-19-2005, 01:46 PM
During Jake's most recent two bad years the Broncos were 19-8 in the regular seasons.
I'll take some more of those "bad years."

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I'd take some too, except his past playoff years.

broncofan27
08-23-2005, 07:58 AM
Hey I know you guys whine about some of his INTs in practice but he has appeared pretty great in the games. I mean the defense knows what the offense is trying to do better than any other team in the league would so I don't think it is that big of a deal. I think Plummer will be just fine this year.

JHoward
08-24-2005, 10:38 AM
I've watched every day of camp highlights. Is it me or is Jake Plummer throwing pick after pick after pick? This guy will never shake this tag! Long year ahead if he keeps this shi* up.

You know, I was thinking the same thing after seeing all the highlights on Broncos TV. Jake cannot throw near as many ints as he did last year. If he does we're through.