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zarub
08-08-2005, 02:50 AM
To begin with, this is not a thread to dump on any particular player or Shanahan for that matter. I am however confused by the following:

Why is it that Shanahan feels it necessary to bring in so many Running Backs to camp, so many talented running backs, yet overlooks other offensive deficiencies? I am speaking of the receiving corps in particular.

Rod Smith should, and hopefully will be, the number ONE receiver as long as he wears the Broncos colors and Lelie deserves a chance to prove himself as a bonafide Pro Bowler. After these two, the depth chart gets pretty thin however. Watts may (or may not) become a threat, and we have all seen what Rice has to offer in his current state. Was it wise to bring in Dayne, or even to draft Clarett when a little extra competition at WR might have proved more beneficial to the final roster?

Some of the same concerns apply to the defense. A lot of attention was paid to the D Line (and rightly so), yet the secondary was weakened by the loss of veterans. The draft was obviously slanted towards replenishing the DB stock, and hopefully we have a few winners. But again, was it a wise decision to bring in so many (relatively) experienced linemen versus defensive backs or safeties?

I am generally happy with the players in camp and the apparent make-up of the team, yet I wish that a few extra veteran players were in camp competing for 3rd or 4th WR or CB.

All that being said, I hope I am being overly critical, but it does seem odd that some positions are so loaded, where as others seem simply to scrape along.

Freestyle
08-08-2005, 03:56 AM
Its all perspective. Shanahan sees these guys all the time and he brings guys in who he feels will help improve his final roster. From what we see the defensive backfield looks pretty thin, but I guess the coaching staff feels pretty confident in playing the rookies.

-In the receiving corps, i think Watts is our future with Jerry Rice coming in to catch a few clutch passes. Not bad 3rd and 4th options.

-I like the Engelberger trade. If Courtney Brown does get injured again (not saying he will) Ekuban/Engelberger rotation dont look that bad.

- After last year, i think we learned that you can never have too many running backs. Now its a matter of finding one that makes our offense run smoothly.

Duilen
08-08-2005, 03:57 AM
I can't say I agree with that. I think we are pretty solid 1-4 and there is a lot of competition for the 5th spot. We might even end up keeping 6 WR.

The way TC is going I hope Todd Devoe can step up and take the 5th position he seems to have a lot of potential. Even if he doesn't we still have Charlie Adams and Triandos Luke with the possibility of Nate Jackson coming back over to WR if we run into any injury problems.

Besides, with the way our TEs are playing we might end up running a lot of double tight sets. I think it will be rare for us to have 4 WR on the field at once.

So unless we run into 2-3 injuries I think our depth at WR is pretty good.

lvbronx
08-08-2005, 04:25 AM
Why is it that Shanahan feels it necessary to bring in so many Running Backs to camp, so many talented running backs, yet overlooks other offensive deficiencies? I am speaking of the receiving corps in particular.




Maybe because:

MA - Injured, missed all of last season.
Q - Injured, missed almost all of last season.
Bell - Injured, missed most of last season.
Clarett - Missed all of last two NCAA seasons.
Dayne - Played little last few seasons

Rod Smith - Played all last season, didn't miss a game, over 1000 yards.
Lelie - Played all last season didn't miss a game, over 1000 yards.
Watts - Played all last season didn't miss a game
Rice - Healthy all last season

Bigplayshay84
08-08-2005, 05:17 AM
Maybe because:

MA - Injured, missed all of last season.
Q - Injured, missed almost all of last season.
Bell - Injured, missed most of last season.
Clarett - Missed all of last two NCAA seasons.
Dayne - Played little last few seasons

Rod Smith - Played all last season, didn't miss a game, over 1000 yards.
Lelie - Played all last season didn't miss a game, over 1000 yards.
Watts - Played all last season didn't miss a game
Rice - Healthy all last season

good point bro.... :beer:

JWinn
08-08-2005, 05:39 AM
Here's my reasons;

1. Mike is still searching for another TD. He might have had one with Portis, but you already know how that worked out. He does seem to have an eye for the runner though, so I wont question his judgement on that. And has been just said, injuries last year showed the need for depth at that position.

2. There just wasnt that many third options avaialable for Receiver at a price we could afford. We got the only experienced Receiver available that would work under our salary cap. Dont count out Rice just yet. He may only be good for a few of those cluth catches, but if they come from the redzone, and put up 6, thats exactly what we missed last year. He may have lost a step, but I'd put up his hands against anyone in the league. And his effort is still second to none! He doesnt need breakaway speed to help our redzone problems. He might be just what we need at Receiver.

Pretty much the same at DB. Who was available that we had the money for? Ty Law? Yeah, that would be cool, but with the time he has left, he cant sign a contract laden with incentives, or one thats back loaded. He wants the cash now, while he can still play.

32 teams try to get those missing pieces during the offseason. There's only so many experienced guys to go around. It would be nice if we could afford to get them all, but that isnt very realistic.

Mike got Dayne for next to nothing, and Clarett signed an unusual contract the really only pays off if he produces. With the contract he signed, Clarett turned out to be a very reasonable gamble.

Other than Rice, who else could we have gotten that would have worked under our salary cap constraints?

Mat'hir Uth Gan
08-08-2005, 05:44 AM
I think Shanahan has done a good job in terms of the roster. We are so overstocked at every position, it's absolutely silly.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with his approach, especially in terms of the draft and gaining stop gaps at D-line through FA, but he has done an excellent job based on what his personal theoretical approach is.

The thing about RBs, is that the backups are going to be key members of your special teams. If we keep Jerry Rice, and it looks like we will, that takes away a spot that normally is used on special teams as a gunner or other tackler. Thus, we need RBs that will play on special teams and make tackles.

Mike Anderson is a key member of our special teams. I expect Clarett to be used on special teams the majority of the season along with Sapp. Ron Dayne played special teams in NY and was actually decent.

So on top of injuries, there are good reasons to carry a multitude of talented RBs.

At WR, we are likely going to have to cut young players that ooze potential, such as Devoe, Johnson, Crenshaw, Adams, or Luke. Some will make the practice squad, but we are stocked at WR.

The same deal on D-line. We have a lot of average players. Its very hard to find great D-line players outside of the draft. We don't draft D-line, because we are ...... But anyway. We are stocked on D-line with the best of what we could hope for this season after ignoring the position in the draft. We'll be cutting solid players.

And drafting 3 CBs in one draft for the secondary is risky, but we did it, and because we did, we don't have the roster spots for veterans in the secondary.

It's all Shanahan's approach. He's happy. Lets see how it works out through the course of the season. Personally, I would have drafted 2 DTs and just 1 CB. I would have kept Middlebrooks and not traded for Warren, keeping the draft pick, and relying on my rookies which would be signed more then 1 season. I also would have spent Ian Gold's money on keeping Reggie Heyward instead, leaving DJ Williams at WLB, and just let Jashon Sykes or Chukurah play the strongside. I would have done the Droughns/Myers,Ekuban deal, thought that was great. I would have taken the gamble on Brown as well. Though I would have cut Pryce and signed Marquise Douglas to replace him.

It's all a matter of theory though, we'll see how Shanahan's approach works out.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
08-08-2005, 05:46 AM
Here's my reasons;

1. Mike is still searching for another TD. He might have had one with Portis, but you already know how that worked out. He does seem to have an eye for the runner though, so I wont question his judgement on that. And has been just said, injuries last year showed the need for depth at that position.

2. There just wasnt that many third options avaialable for Receiver at a price we could afford. We got the only experienced Receiver available that would work under our salary cap. Dont count out Rice just yet. He may only be good for a few of those cluth catches, but if they come from the redzone, and put up 6, thats exactly what we missed last year. He may have lost a step, but I'd put up his hands against anyone in the league. And his effort is still second to none! He doesnt need breakaway speed to help our redzone problems. He might be just what we need at Receiver.

Pretty much the same at DB. Who was available that we had the money for? Ty Law? Yeah, that would be cool, but with the time he has left, he cant sign a contract laden with incentives, or one thats back loaded. He wants the cash now, while he can still play.

32 teams try to get those missing pieces during the offseason. There's only so many experienced guys to go around. It would be nice if we could afford to get them all, but that isnt very realistic.

Mike got Dayne for next to nothing, and Clarett signed an unusual contract the really only pays off if he produces. With the contract he signed, Clarett turned out to be a very reasonable gamble.

Other than Rice, who else could we have gotten that would have worked under our salary cap constraints?


Kevin Johnson actually. He has the best hands in the entire NFL, though he's slow. I believe Detroit finally signed him, but that's the guy we should have tabbed as our veteran possession WR. Though to be honest, there isn't really much difference between he and Jerry Rice at this stage of his career.

JWinn
08-08-2005, 05:56 AM
Kevin Johnson actually. He has the best hands in the entire NFL, though he's slow. I believe Detroit finally signed him, but that's the guy we should have tabbed as our veteran possession WR. Though to be honest, there isn't really much difference between he and Jerry Rice at this stage of his career.


And with Mike, there's really no choice between the two. He goes with Rice every time. Too much history there.

rcsodak
08-08-2005, 11:18 PM
I think Shanahan has done a good job in terms of the roster. We are so overstocked at every position, it's absolutely silly.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with his approach, especially in terms of the draft and gaining stop gaps at D-line through FA, but he has done an excellent job based on what his personal theoretical approach is.

The thing about RBs, is that the backups are going to be key members of your special teams. If we keep Jerry Rice, and it looks like we will, that takes away a spot that normally is used on special teams as a gunner or other tackler. Thus, we need RBs that will play on special teams and make tackles.

Mike Anderson is a key member of our special teams. I expect Clarett to be used on special teams the majority of the season along with Sapp. Ron Dayne played special teams in NY and was actually decent.

So on top of injuries, there are good reasons to carry a multitude of talented RBs.

At WR, we are likely going to have to cut young players that ooze potential, such as Devoe, Johnson, Crenshaw, Adams, or Luke. Some will make the practice squad, but we are stocked at WR.

The same deal on D-line. We have a lot of average players. Its very hard to find great D-line players outside of the draft. We don't draft D-line, because we are ...... But anyway. We are stocked on D-line with the best of what we could hope for this season after ignoring the position in the draft. We'll be cutting solid players.

And drafting 3 CBs in one draft for the secondary is risky, but we did it, and because we did, we don't have the roster spots for veterans in the secondary.

It's all Shanahan's approach. He's happy. Lets see how it works out through the course of the season. Personally, I would have drafted 2 DTs and just 1 CB. I would have kept Middlebrooks and not traded for Warren, keeping the draft pick, and relying on my rookies which would be signed more then 1 season. I also would have spent Ian Gold's money on keeping Reggie Heyward instead, leaving DJ Williams at WLB, and just let Jashon Sykes or Chukurah play the strongside. I would have done the Droughns/Myers,Ekuban deal, thought that was great. I would have taken the gamble on Brown as well. Though I would have cut Pryce and signed Marquise Douglas to replace him.

It's all a matter of theory though, we'll see how Shanahan's approach works out.

Absolutely great post, mug......
I knew you could do it! :cheers:

Your 'changes' may/may not have worked out.....only time will tell if Shanny's will.
I, as I'm sure you are as well, can only hope that this team gels into a cohesive unit.
Shutting up all of the nay-sayers, media people would be the icing on the cake.

arapaho
08-09-2005, 08:40 AM
I think Shanahan has done a good job in terms of the roster. We are so overstocked at every position, it's absolutely silly.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with his approach, especially in terms of the draft and gaining stop gaps at D-line through FA, but he has done an excellent job based on what his personal theoretical approach is.

The thing about RBs, is that the backups are going to be key members of your special teams. If we keep Jerry Rice, and it looks like we will, that takes away a spot that normally is used on special teams as a gunner or other tackler. Thus, we need RBs that will play on special teams and make tackles.

Mike Anderson is a key member of our special teams. I expect Clarett to be used on special teams the majority of the season along with Sapp. Ron Dayne played special teams in NY and was actually decent.

So on top of injuries, there are good reasons to carry a multitude of talented RBs.

At WR, we are likely going to have to cut young players that ooze potential, such as Devoe, Johnson, Crenshaw, Adams, or Luke. Some will make the practice squad, but we are stocked at WR.

The same deal on D-line. We have a lot of average players. Its very hard to find great D-line players outside of the draft. We don't draft D-line, because we are ...... But anyway. We are stocked on D-line with the best of what we could hope for this season after ignoring the position in the draft. We'll be cutting solid players.

And drafting 3 CBs in one draft for the secondary is risky, but we did it, and because we did, we don't have the roster spots for veterans in the secondary.

It's all Shanahan's approach. He's happy. Lets see how it works out through the course of the season. Personally, I would have drafted 2 DTs and just 1 CB. I would have kept Middlebrooks and not traded for Warren, keeping the draft pick, and relying on my rookies which would be signed more then 1 season. I also would have spent Ian Gold's money on keeping Reggie Heyward instead, leaving DJ Williams at WLB, and just let Jashon Sykes or Chukurah play the strongside. I would have done the Droughns/Myers,Ekuban deal, thought that was great. I would have taken the gamble on Brown as well. Though I would have cut Pryce and signed Marquise Douglas to replace him.

It's all a matter of theory though, we'll see how Shanahan's approach works out.


i would take this years selection like this............we know we needed db help....and we knew we needed dl help.........but in our position in the draft were there any real positively special DL when we picked...someone that would come in and instantly help the team more then these veterans would...im not psitive but i think we would have gotten only a project player,,, so we when with the db's

now next year we have 2 1st rnd picks..........and now then we are in a position to grab a real impact player on DL

JRWIZ
08-09-2005, 11:29 AM
i would take this years selection like this............we know we needed db help....and we knew we needed dl help.........but in our position in the draft were there any real positively special DL when we picked...someone that would come in and instantly help the team more then these veterans would...im not psitive but i think we would have gotten only a project player,,, so we when with the db's

now next year we have 2 1st rnd picks..........and now then we are in a position to grab a real impact player on DL


We have a chance to pick some decent folks depending on WAS's position in the draft as well as ours.

The the big question is, are we ever gonna get a GM that knows talent in the draft?

FA's are a lot easier to Judge (except for charcter issues it seems) than Drafties on whether they can play against NFL players.

arapaho
08-09-2005, 11:56 AM
We have a chance to pick some decent folks depending on WAS's position in the draft as well as ours.

The the big question is, are we ever gonna get a GM that knows talent in the draft?

FA's are a lot easier to Judge (except for charcter issues it seems) than Drafties on whether they can play against NFL players.

heres to washintons hopefuly worst season ever :beer: