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View Full Version : Would your prefer one top 5 draft pick or several lower 1st and 2nd rounders?



Javalon
10-04-2005, 09:15 AM
The following question in another thread got me wondering how most people felt about this. And since I enjoy creating the occasional poll... ;)

...but when was the last time the Broncos got a top ten pick?
In 1991 we picked Mike Croel with the 4th pick in the draft. He played well for a couple seasons then faded away.

In 1983 we drafted Chris Hinton with the 4th pick in the draft and traded him away for John Elway. :beer:

Those are the only two times in the past 30 years that we've had a top 10 pick. I'd say we've done alright without them considering we probably have the best overall record in the entire NFL over that same period, or at least the most winning seasons.

In my opinion, high picks are not worth the risk. You spend a lot more money on them than untested rookies should get paid. Then, even if they perform well, you're still not getting good value for your money. Lower first round picks cost a lot less than the top ones and are still usually very talented but you'll generally get a lot more bang for your buck on their rookie contracts.

If we get a top 5 pick (probably top 10 now, lucky Redskins), then I firmly believe we should trade down for a number of lower first round and second round picks.

Then again, we would not have gotten John Elway without our #4 overall pick to trade for him.

What do you prefer? One very high pick or several lower 1st and 2nd rounders?

LordTrychon
10-04-2005, 09:21 AM
The following question in another thread got me wondering how most people felt about this. And since I enjoy creating the occasional poll... ;)

In 1991 we picked Mike Croel with the 4th pick in the draft. He played well for a couple seasons then faded away.

In 1983 we drafted Chris Hinton with the 4th pick in the draft and traded him away for John Elway. :beer:

Those are the only two times in the past 30 years that we've had a top 10 pick. I'd say we've done alright without them considering we probably have the best overall record in the entire NFL over that same period, or at least the most winning seasons.

In my opinion, high picks are not worth the risk. You spend a lot more money on them than untested rookies should get paid. Then, even if they perform well, you're still not getting good value for your money. Lower first round picks cost a lot less than the top ones and are still usually very talented but you'll generally get a lot more bang for your buck on their rookie contracts.

If we get a top 5 pick (probably top 10 now, lucky Redskins), then I firmly believe we should trade down for a number of lower first round and second round picks.

Then again, we would not have gotten John Elway without our #4 overall pick to trade for him.

What do you prefer? One very high pick or several lower 1st and 2nd rounders?


A great point, Javalon... I personally would prefer several late first round picks... Top 5 picks and even top 10 picks cost too much guaranteed money for rookies... there are still great players even in the second round (Darrent).

But it is still a fun prospect to think about, getting one of the top names in the draft. Mostly I am just happy that we have 2 first round picks. I honestly would love to get a high pick from the Redskins if we could trade down for a later first round pick and a second or third. I would not be surprised to see Shanny do that at all. :coffee:

Jared
10-04-2005, 09:22 AM
I'll take depth and value for the talent over a #1 pick just about anyday.

But it really comes down to who's available and how desperate the need at a certain position is.

LordTrychon
10-04-2005, 09:25 AM
That's true too... didn't we move up for DJ?

BroncoFanCam
10-04-2005, 09:27 AM
It really just depends on who is available (at least for me). I like the 10-15 area of the first. TONS of great players come from there, at a slightly reduced wage. We have JUST MISSED on so many in the 17-25 spot that we normally are. Like Freeny for instance a couple years ago, taken by the Colts 1 pick before us.

If we can get a 10-15 out of the skins pick I will be satisfied, since our pick will be #32 (here's to wishful thinking :beer: )

Calif. Bronco
10-04-2005, 09:33 AM
Normally I prefer depth, but if there is an apparent game-breaker out there than I think we should try to trade up to get him.

Interpol
10-04-2005, 09:48 AM
Trade down. No point taking the top pick, they cost too much and any team could ALWAYS use the depth.

Only exception would be a quarterback who could be a franchise quarterback. Jake isn't a spring chicken anymore.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
10-04-2005, 09:58 AM
I like picks in the 10-20 range in the first round. I'll take those.

MilitantDBFan
10-04-2005, 10:02 AM
Call me crazy, and you all know that i am. But i would trade both of our first rounders for proven veterans that might be able to either help us now mid season or for next year. Not taking salary cap into account here are some ideas.

Just from things around the league lately.

Would the Chiefs trade the disgruntled Tony Gonzalez inside their own division for Jeb Putzier and our First Round Pick.

Could Lenny Walls and a 7th round pick be traded to the 49ers for Fred Beasley

Could we trade Washingtons first round pick to Atlanta for TJ Duckett

Could we trade 2 first rounders for Jamal Lewis during the draft next year. Maybe Edgerin James or Shaun Alexander.

Could we trade a first rounder for Will Smith DE of the Saints.

Lavar Arrington is unhappy. Maybe we ship two first rounders to Washington and secure his services for the Ultimate 3-4 defense.

Hell, Could we trade for Brett Favre.

Although all scenarios are unlikely, what the broncos do have are options. We could be looking at a revamped offense next season to go with a hell of a defense. Mike has done a great job putting us in a position to be successful for years to come. Just my mind though.

Zanataki
10-04-2005, 10:16 AM
I would try to get a steal and get Brad Smith for a backup QB and maybe later our Starting QB. He would fit perfectly with the misdirection and bootlegs we run. Plus he is built like a RB with an arm to match.

rogue719
10-04-2005, 10:21 AM
Ryan Leaf.

That should strike fear in the hearts of anyone wanting that top five pick.

Seriously, you never know when you sign these guys if you get the great player or a good player or, in some rare cases, a bust. I would rather minimize my risk. I want the younger players rather than trying to sign all veterans through FA though, because you need both to build your team, IMO. It gives you more to work with in the long run than simply going to build your team out of all veterans.

Broncoballa2684
10-04-2005, 10:24 AM
That's true too... didn't we move up for DJ?




no we traded down for him.....and if we have a top 5 or 10 pick we could use that to get that Safety out of USC or a playing TE. the biggest need in the draft next yr is SS, WR, TE, OL

Javalon
10-04-2005, 10:28 AM
no we traded down for him.....and if we have a top 5 or 10 pick we could use that to get that Safety out of USC or a playing TE. the biggest need in the draft next yr is SS, WR, TE, OL
Actually, we traded up about 5 or 6 spots to the 17th overall pick. We gave up Deltha O'Neal and a lower draft pick to make the swap.

But the 17th pick isn't the same as a top 5 pick. It's still minimal financial risk in comparison.

Javalon
10-04-2005, 10:29 AM
Ryan Leaf.

That should strike fear in the hearts of anyone wanting that top five pick.

Seriously, you never know when you sign these guys if you get the great player or a good player or, in some rare cases, a bust. I would rather minimize my risk. I want the younger players rather than trying to sign all veterans through FA though, because you need both to build your team, IMO. It gives you more to work with in the long run than simply going to build your team out of all veterans.
Yep, he's a prime example. Look at the all the money the Chargers wasted on that guy. :eek:

LordTrychon
10-04-2005, 10:35 AM
Yep, he's a prime example. Look at the all the money the Chargers wasted on that guy. :eek:

Yeah... I feel so bad for them...

At least they've done real well since their last first round pick... even if he's still riding the bench. Good thing he held out for more money.

broncsx3
10-04-2005, 10:44 AM
1. Would the Chiefs trade the disgruntled Tony Gonzalez inside their own division for Jeb Putzier and our First Round Pick.

2. Could Lenny Walls and a 7th round pick be traded to the 49ers for Fred Beasley

3. Could we trade Washingtons first round pick to Atlanta for TJ Duckett

4. Could we trade 2 first rounders for Jamal Lewis during the draft next year. Maybe Edgerin James or Shaun Alexander.

5. Could we trade a first rounder for Will Smith DE of the Saints.

6. Lavar Arrington is unhappy. Maybe we ship two first rounders to Washington and secure his services for the Ultimate 3-4 defense.

7. Hell, Could we trade for Brett Favre.


1. I'd love Gonzalez.

2. Why would they do this?

3. Why would WE do this??

4. Dear lord why would we do this? You want to pay 8 million+ for a franchise running back when our running backs do such a good job already? And even if we did want to do this, Alexander can be had for a second round pick last year (no one wanted him) and James should be a free agent after this season (they won't franchise him again).

5. I don't know this player, but I assume you mentioned him because he is great. That said, we have Trevor Pryce and Courtney Brown locked up for awhile, don't see us going after another big DE that costs a lot of money.

6. Don't like our 4-3? We already spend a fortune on our LBs, we can't afford another one!

7. I guess we could trade for Brett Favre, but then we would have two waterboys... ;)

Cugel
10-04-2005, 11:06 AM
You have to analyze what the difference is between the top 5-10 players in a draft and the "later round picks" which means 20-32, not 10-20 by the way, those are "middle round" picks!

The top 10 players are guys who are regarded as "can't miss" players. You have a chance to draft a franchise QB, a top RB, top DB, top DE or DT.

Those players are often worth it. For every Ryan Leaf there are a LOT of success stories, guys like TB's Carnell Williams in this year's draft.

The higher you pick, the more options you have, the greater the number of highly talented players. If you pick a bust, it's on you! You could have taken someone else and there are busts at all levels of the draft. But as more and more good players are taken, finding a diamond in the rough becomes harder and harder.

That's what Shananan has failed consistently to do. He's been accused of "reaching" for picks. Why? Because he's picking at the bottom of the draft consistently, and there are fewer impact players available that's why!

Take a good look at the top 10 players selected in the 2000 draft. This is a good comparison, because after 5 years in the league, you can pretty much tell how good a player is.

1 Cleveland Courtney Brown DE (He's doing pretty good here, but was a bust in CLE)
2 Washington LaVar Arrington (Redskins were happy in 2002-03, but injury last year slowed his development)
3 Washington Chris Samuels T (currently their starting LT)
4 Cincinnati Peter Warrick WR (Bust!)
5 Baltimore Jamal Lewis RB (Pro-Bowl, 2000 yards season, etc.)
6 Philadelphia Corey Simon DT (Pro-Bowl)
7 Arizona Thomas Jones RB (Bust)
8 Pittsburgh Plaxico Burress WR (now with the Giants)
9 Chicago Brian Urlacher MLB (Pro-Bowls)
10 Baltimore Travis Taylor WR (Bust City)

Courtney Brown certainly is playing well, he was considered a bust because of his frequent injuries, not because of his lack of talent. Peter Warwick never lived up to the hype. He was a bust. And Thomas Jones has done nothing for 3 teams. Travis Taylor is also a bust so far and now is with Minnesota.

But look at the rest! Jamal Lewis (until slowed by injury he was on his way to a hall of fame career-- one of a handful of RBs to rush for 2000 yards)? Corey Simon? Brian Urlacher? Excellent Pro-Bowl players! Any team would be happy to get those guys (although Simon needs to lose some weight, his presence has been credited with helping the Colts to achieve their currently dominating defense - He might be the missing ingredient in a Colts SB run).

P.S. Ron Dayne and John Abraham were the next players selected.

So, there are no guarantees, but you have the chance to select some VERY good players at those spots. It also shows that picking WRs and QBs with the top 10 picks is very risky. Some become franchise players, some become expensive disappointments. The main thing you gain with those picks is the chance to get a top guy like a Champ Bailey you could never hope to draft otherwise. And Champ is currently the best player on the Broncos!

RBDynasty
10-04-2005, 11:26 AM
I'll take multiple lower round draft picks over high draft picks anyday. Those whiny babies that come out of college demanding all this money yet haven't played a single professional down yet are usually overrated.

Javalon
10-04-2005, 11:49 AM
That's what Shananan has failed consistently to do. He's been accused of "reaching" for picks. Why? Because he's picking at the bottom of the draft consistently, and there are fewer impact players available that's why!
You make great points but I wanted to touch on the above.

Yes, when picking lower in the first round the odds are against finding that impact player. But impact players are found there every year that, in retrospect, turn out much better than many of those top 5 - 10 players.

If it was a situation of having to use either a top 5 pick or a 20 - 25 overall pick, obviously I would want the top 5 pick. But since we could actually trade away the top 5 pick, I would try to get a couple lower first round picks and a couple 2nd and/or 3rd round picks in exchange. Out of 4 or 5 picks in the first couple of rounds, I like the odds much better of finding impact players than with a single shot on a top 5 pick. Plus, we'd spend less money overall and still have the possibility of multiple impact players.

LordTrychon
10-04-2005, 11:54 AM
You make great points but I wanted to touch on the above.

Yes, when picking lower in the first round the odds are against finding that impact player. But impact players are found there every year that, in retrospect, turn out much better than many of those top 5 - 10 players.

If it was a situation of having to use either a top 5 pick or a 20 - 25 overall pick, obviously I would want the top 5 pick. But since we could actually trade away the top 5 pick, I would try to get a couple lower first round picks and a couple 2nd and/or 3rd round picks in exchange. Out of 4 or 5 picks in the first couple of rounds, I like the odds much better of finding impact players than with a single shot on a top 5 pick. Plus, we'd spend less money overall and still have the possibility of multiple impact players.


The pay rate is so outrageous for those first several picks that it makes much more sense to go for that quantity factor. We got rid of our sack leader from last year, and instead are paying for 4 new lineman with the same price as a total. We got some real talent there, and the ability to rotate and stay fresh... Bargain hunting can pay off! (Ala TD - 6th round) :beer:

Javalon
10-04-2005, 11:56 AM
The pay rate is so outrageous for those first several picks that it makes much more sense to go for that quantity factor. We got rid of our sack leader from last year, and instead are paying for 4 new lineman with the same price as a total. We got some real talent there, and the ability to rotate and stay fresh... Bargain hunting can pay off! (Ala TD - 6th round) :beer:
Exactly. Monetarily speaking, I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

Broncos04Champs
10-04-2005, 11:59 AM
I voted for...
Give me a couple lower 1st round and some 2nd round picks

but I am still thinking the redskins will give us a solid mid-1st round pick, somewhere in the 7th to 18th range...

we, of course will have the 32nd overall pick :cool: :fight:

RBDynasty
10-04-2005, 12:01 PM
we, of course will have the 32nd overall pick :cool: :fight:Now that's the way to think!!!! :D

Chris
10-04-2005, 12:03 PM
we need a star WR

BroncosRPH
10-04-2005, 12:09 PM
If we have the opportunity to get him--we should not hesistate--even if it means trading both of our 1st rounders...this guy is a GAME BREAKER! He is fluid as both a runner and as a receiver. We could exploit many mismatches with him--pair him with tatum bell and lelie---that is a TON of speed that our offense will possess. SPEED kills........

Calif. Bronco
10-04-2005, 12:11 PM
Ryan Leaf.

That should strike fear in the hearts of anyone wanting that top five pick.

Although I think your argument is interesting, I think it is the argument of someone who is afraid. You have to trust your scouts and roll the dice once in awhile. For every top-5 bust, there is a top-5 pick who becomes a stud. In fact, didn't we have some top-5 QB out of Stanford a few years back who did pretty well? :confused:

Broncos04Champs
10-04-2005, 12:14 PM
If we have the opportunity to get him--we should not hesistate--even if it means trading both of our 1st rounders...this guy is a GAME BREAKER! He is fluid as both a runner and as a receiver. We could exploit many mismatches with him--pair him with tatum bell and lelie---that is a TON of speed that our offense will possess. SPEED kills........

Bush looks awesome, but I honestly can't say what position I hope we draft until the end of the season. I mean if Anderson and Bell keep playing great I wouldn't want to draft a RB, and if Lelie, Adams, and Watts have good years then I won't be in such a hurry to find Rod's "future replacement"
It will be a fun draft day that's for sure, 2 picks in the 1st round is very exciting.
If the draft were today I'd say we could use a safety to eventualy replace Lynch and maybe an offensive lineman. But I think the year before we think Rod is going to retire we should draft a big-time WR, no matter how are WR's are doing at the time.

RBDynasty
10-04-2005, 12:15 PM
Although I think your argument is interesting, I think it is the argument of someone who is afraid. You have to trust your scouts and roll the dice once in awhile. For every top-5 bust, there is a top-5 pick who becomes a stud. In fact, didn't we have some top-5 QB out of Stanford a few years back who did pretty well? :confused:More like a couple of decades ago... That is pretty rare to find a superstar player that stays productive for that long. I think the reasoning here is that it's cheaper to dig closer to the bottom of the barrel for superstar talent. And even if you don't get a superstar player, you get a handful of quality or at least average players. And I would rather have a bunch of quality/average players than one superstar.

Calif. Bronco
10-04-2005, 12:19 PM
More like a couple of decades ago... That is pretty rare to find a superstar player that stays productive for that long. I think the reasoning here is that it's cheaper to dig closer to the bottom of the barrel for superstar talent. And even if you don't get a superstar player, you get a handful of quality or at least average players. And I would rather have a bunch of quality/average players than one superstar.

Obviously I used John as an example because of who we are all fans of, but there are a lot of very good/great players out there who were taken in the top 5. I'm not saying you automatically try to trade up, but if there is someone who you believe can come in and make an impact right away then you need to have the guts to go for it and not be afraid he'll be the next Ryan Leaf.

Dean
10-04-2005, 12:22 PM
I like picks in the 10-20 range in the first round. I'll take those.


My thoughts exactly. Quality and quantity without the price tag.

Javalon
10-04-2005, 12:22 PM
Obviously I used John as an example because of who we are all fans of, but there are a lot of very good/great players out there who were taken in the top 5. I'm not saying you automatically try to trade up, but if there is someone who you believe can come in and make an impact right away then you need to have the guts to go for it and not be afraid he'll be the next Ryan Leaf.
I think you make a good point. If the situation is right, take a chance and go for one of those top picks. However, on most occasions I would take the better odds of multiple lower (but still 1st & 2nd rounders) over just one top 5 pick.

pdt2505
10-04-2005, 12:22 PM
I would like a top 5 pick. Of course In a perfect world it would be the redskins and we pick 32. But lets assume the Redskins are in the 10-15 range and we end up in the 28-32 range. My reason is simple I think the broncos have positioned themselves to succed in the present and the Future if they come away in this draft with two future stars. Another reason I would like one is because Denver has done so well they have not had a top ten pick since Mike Croel. But I believe if they had a top 5 pick they could come away with a Franshise Tackle, Defensive End, or even a talented skill player ( QB, Rb, Wr etc..).

With the second pick I truely believe a talented young QB will fall to us no matter where we pick. If denver chooses to go that route ( it better not be another Tommy maddox). The player could sit for a year or two and then take over. I feel their are alot of QB's that might come out this year. Also their are alot of teams that don't need a young QB. The only teams that might in my mind are: Dolphins, Jets?, Ravens, Raiders, Chiefs, Texans?, Lions?, Cardnals, Bucs? Cowboys,. Of these teams you know half will not consider because of more pressing needs. If the Texans do not draft a offensive lineman they should fold their team and leave the league.

Obvisly the offseason will play huge into what we draft. I also would love to see Mahoney ( RB Minn) in a denver unifrom though. I wish there were better receivers in the draft but hopefully rod plays next year.

Like a said before we are in a good position with are team and have a change to improve it and succed in the future with two first round picks.

RBDynasty
10-04-2005, 12:30 PM
Obviously I used John as an example because of who we are all fans of, but there are a lot of very good/great players out there who were taken in the top 5. I'm not saying you automatically try to trade up, but if there is someone who you believe can come in and make an impact right away then you need to have the guts to go for it and not be afraid he'll be the next Ryan Leaf.I think it goes back to trusting the scouts and coaches. If they see a good player come out (wherever that player falls - high or low), we should trust them because they are the experts.

Javalon
10-04-2005, 12:32 PM
But I believe if they had a top 5 pick they could come away with a Franshise Tackle, Defensive End, or even a talented skill player ( QB, Rb, Wr etc..).
Possibly. However, these top picks are getting paid more than a lot of very talented veterans who have already proven what they're worth.

Paying any rookie that kind of money gives you no value whatsoever. Even if they work out, you spend a ton of money on them. But lower first round picks that pan out come at a relative bargain.


We got guys like Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce, etc. for decent rookie contracts and not the bank-breakers that the top 5 picks get.

diesel51
10-04-2005, 01:52 PM
The thing is, it really depends on the situation.

If the Broncos had experienced a down year, or two, and an exceptional talent(no miss) was avaliable, I'd say grab him and bite the dollar amount.

However, honestly, trading down for more picks, makes more sense, especially next year.

Lets say Washington does a nose dive from here on out, and we have a top 5 pick? Who are we going to pick? Who is worth it?

QB - Jake is in his prime and to draft a QB now would say that we ain't paying Jake for two more seasons and that we don't care about winning for the next three.(SEE GREEN BAY) NEED - marginal

RB - Although I believe our RBs are talented, it is as much the system as them. An average back elsewhere(see Portis) excells in our system, so to take an ultra-talented RB at this position when we can easily pick one later makes absolutely no sense. NEED - marginal

FB - No one takes a FB with a top 5 pick. Not even an option, if you ask me. NEED - slim

WR - We actually seem to have depth at this position for the first time in years. Rod will be retiring in a few years, but the combination of Lelie, Adams, and Watts, not to mention the possible emergence of Devoe next year, makes this a very risky pick. NEED - slim to marginal

TE - We seem to also have plenty of depth at TE. Putzier is still learning to block and Alexander is a solid TE. Jury is still out on Jackson and the "new" #84(can't think of his name). NEED - marginal

T - Actually, only one of the three positions I would consider taking a top 5 pick, but only if he was at least Robert Gallery's equal or better. NEED - high

G - Another position that might need depth, but Broncos don't have to reach with a top 5 pick. NEED - high to marginal

C - More than likely Hamilton moves here next year, with Miami boy as his backup and possibly replacing him at LG. NEED - slim

DT - With the emergence of "Big Money" at DT, and with the current depth at DT, I foresee the Broncos trying to retain their talent instead of drafting replacements. But this all depends on how this season goes, whether or not we can keep our new "Browncos" defensive tackles. I would take a DT here, if the talent level warranted it. NEED - marginal to slim(remains to be seen)

DE - With Pryce and Brown at ends, and Ekuban and Endleberger as backups, I doubt the Broncos take a DE with their top 5 pick. Who are they willing to lose? Of course, if Pryce or Brown fall to injuries, this position gets a long hard look. NEED - marginal to slim

OLB - We are more than set at this position with Williams and Gold. Do not expect an OLB pick in the 1st round, let alone top 5. NEED - slim to none

MLB - While more depth here is needed, we won't take a MLB in the 1st round either. If we took a MLB in the second or third, you might expect there to be a setback on special teams, as it seems when Burns goes, so does our ST. NEED - marginal to high

CB - This is a position I don't expect to see drafted at all next year, unless Shanahan asks some present CBs to switch to S. With the emergence of Williams at corner opposite Champ, and with Walls, Foxworth, and Paymah as backups, there just doesn't seem to be a need. NEED - slim to none

S - I lack the knowledge, and more importantly right now, the memory, of who plays what position, so I will combine both SS and FS. I do know this, under Coyer's scheme they are supposed to be interchangeable. Which brings me to my last top 5 pick I would consider. Lynch is in his twilight years, and while young on experience, Ferg is suprisingly older than you would think. If you could get an Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Roy Williams type saftey here, I'd do it. Otherwise, a vetern would probably be better served, or if Sam Brandon continues to emerge. Possible for Browner as well. NEED - high to marginal

P/K - NOONE TAKES A P/K WITH A TOP 5 PICK. There is now no need for a Punter, and Ernster might be Elam's replacement. Still, Elam may kick for another 5 years. You know the length of a good kicker's career.

So there you have it. T, DT, or S. Only positions I would consider taking with a top 5.

Agree or disagree.

clokwork orange
10-04-2005, 01:53 PM
Normally I prefer depth, but if there is an apparent game-breaker out there than I think we should try to trade up to get him.I agree reggie bush baby!!!!

OrangePeel
10-04-2005, 01:55 PM
Whoops, meant to cast my vote for the 2nd option.

Anyway, I think it would be wise to trade down for a lower 1st round pick, and another 2nd rounder. Take a look at past 5 drafts, and where the majority of the talent has been.

Green = Successful
Red = Bust

2000

1 Cleveland Courtney Brown DE Penn State
2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State
3 Washington Chris Samuels T Alabama
4 Cincinnati Peter Warrick WR Florida State
5 Baltimore Jamal Lewis RB Tennessee
6 Philadelphia Corey Simon DT Florida State
7 Arizona Thomas Jones RB Virginia
8 Pittsburgh Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
9 Chicago Brian Urlacher MLB New Mexico
10 Baltimore Travis Taylor WR Florida
11 N.Y. Giants Ron Dayne RB Wisconsin
12 N.Y. Jets Shaun Ellis DE Tennessee
13 N.Y. Jets John Abraham DE South Carolina
14 Green Bay Bubba Franks TE Miami
15 Denver Deltha O'Neal CB California
16 San Francisco Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State
17 Oakland Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State
18 N.Y. Jets Chad Pennington QB Marshall
19 Seattle Shaun Alexander RB Alabama
20 Detroit Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma
21 Kansas City Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
22 Seattle Chris McIntosh T Wisconsin
23 Carolina Rashard Anderson CB Jackson State
24 San Francisco Ahmed Plummer CB Ohio State
25 Minnesota Chris Hovan DT Boston College
26 Buffalo Erik Flowers DE Arizona State
27 N.Y. Jets Anthony Becht TE West Virginia
28 Indianapolis Rob Morris MLB Brigham Young
29 Jacksonville R. Jay Soward WR Southern California
30 Tennessee Keith Bulluck OLB Syracuse
31 St. Louis Trung Canidate RB Arizona

2001

1 Atlanta Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech
2 Arizona Leonard Davis T Texas
3 Cleveland Gerard Warren DT Florida
4 Cincinnati Justin Smith DE Missouri
5 San Diego LaDainian Tomlinson RB Texas Christian
6 New England Richard Seymour DE Georgia
7 San Francisco Andre Carter DE California
8 Chicago David Terrell WR Michigan
9 Seattle Koren Robinson WR North Carolina State
10 Green Bay Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
11 Carolina Dan Morgan MLB Miami
12 St. Louis Damione Lewis DT Miami
13 Jacksonville Marcus Stroud DT Georgia
14 Tampa Bay Kenyatta Walker T Florida
15 Washington Rod Gardner WR Clemson
16 N.Y. Jets Santana Moss WR Miami
17 Seattle Steve Hutchinson G Michigan
18 Detroit Jeff Backus T Michigan
19 Pittsburgh Casey Hampton NT Texas
20 St. Louis Adam Archuleta SS Arizona State
21 Buffalo Nate Clements CB Ohio State
22 N.Y. Giants Will Allen CB Syracuse
23 New Orleans Deuce McAllister RB Mississippi
24 Denver Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
25 Philadelphia Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
26 Miami Jamar Fletcher CB Wisconsin
27 Minnesota Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin
28 Oakland Derrick Gibson SS Florida State
29 St. Louis Ryan Pickett NT Ohio State
30 Indianapolis Reggie Wayne WR Miami
31 Baltimore Todd Heap TE Arizona State

2002

1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2 Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas
5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
7 Minnesota Bryant McKinnie T Miami
8 Dallas Roy Williams FS Oklahoma
9 Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee
10 Cincinnati Levi Jones T Arizona State
11 Indianapolis Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
12 Arizona Wendell Bryant DT Wisconsin
13 New Orleans Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee
14 N.Y. Giants Jeremy Shockey TE Miami
15 Tennessee Albert Haynesworth DT Tennessee
16 Cleveland William Green RB Boston College
17 Oakland Phillip Buchanon CB Miami
18 Atlanta T.J. Duckett RB Michigan State
19 Denver Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
20 Green Bay Javon Walker WR Florida State
21 New England Daniel Graham TE Colorado
22 N.Y. Jets Bryan Thomas DE Ala.-Birmingham
23 Oakland Napoleon Harris ILB Northwestern
24 Baltimore Ed Reed SS Miami
25 New Orleans Charles Grant DE Georgia
26 Philadelphia Lito Sheppard CB Florida
27 San Francisco Mike Rumph CB Miami
28 Seattle Jerramy Stevens TE Washington
29 Chicago Marc Colombo T Boston College
30 Pittsburgh Kendall Simmons G Auburn
31 St. Louis Robert Thomas MLB UCLA
32 Washington Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane

2003

1 Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB Southern California
2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami
4 N.Y. Jets Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky
5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State
6 New Orleans Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia
7 Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall
8 Carolina Jordan Gross T Utah
9 Minnesota Kevin Williams DT Oklahoma State
10 Baltimore Terrell Suggs OLB Arizona State
11 Seattle Marcus Trufant CB Washington State
12 St. Louis Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State
13 New England Ty Warren DE Texas A&M
14 Chicago Michael Haynes DE Penn State
15 Philadelphia Jerome McDougle DE Miami
16 Pittsburgh Troy Polamalu SS Southern California
17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State
18 Arizona Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest
19 Baltimore Kyle Boller QB California
20 Denver George Foster T Georgia
21 Cleveland Jeff Faine C Notre Dame
22 Chicago Rex Grossman QB Florida
23 Buffalo Willis McGahee RB Miami
24 Indianapolis Dallas Clark TE Iowa
25 N.Y. Giants William Joseph DT Miami
26 San Francisco Kwame Harris T Stanford
27 Kansas City Larry Johnson RB Penn State
28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma
29 Green Bay Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California
32 Oakland Tyler Brayton DE Colorado

2004

1 San Diego Eli Manning QB Mississippi
2 Oakland Robert Gallery T Iowa
3 Arizona Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
4 N.Y. Giants Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
5 Washington Sean Taylor FS Miami
6 Cleveland Kellen Winslow TE Miami
7 Detroit Roy Williams WR Texas
8 Atlanta DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech
9 Jacksonville Reggie Williams WR Washington
10 Houston Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
11 Pittsburgh Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami
12 N.Y. Jets Jonathan Vilma MLB Miami
13 Buffalo Lee Evans WR Wisconsin
14 Chicago Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
15 Tampa Bay Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
16 Philadelphia Shawn Andrews T Arkansas
17 Denver D.J. Williams OLB Miami
18 New Orleans Will Smith DE Ohio State
19 Miami Vernon Carey T Miami
20 Minnesota Kenechi Udeze DE Southern California
21 New England Vince Wilfork DT Miami
22 Buffalo J.P. Losman QB Tulane
23 Seattle Marcus Tubbs DT Texas
24 St. Louis Steven Jackson RB Oregon State
25 Green Bay Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
26 Cincinnati Chris Perry RB Michigan
27 Houston Jason Babin OLB Western Michigan
28 Carolina Chris Gamble CB Ohio State
29 Atlanta Michael Jenkins WR Ohio State
30 Detroit Kevin Jones RB Virginia Tech
31 San Francisco Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State
32 New England Ben Watson TE Georgia


I think its safe to say that their is talent to be found in the players that DONT crack the top 10, also their is alot of talent to be had in the 2nd round of drafts, so id go for depth before going on just talent any day.

OrangePeel
10-04-2005, 02:29 PM
yeah, i probably coulda spent a little more time, but i dont got those sick BBcode skills like Duece dose :D

anyway thanks

bronocoman5
10-04-2005, 02:52 PM
I would rather have the #9 pick. Top 5 are risky. In general i think the best players come in the 5 to 10 range. Just my opinion. The thing is the top 5 pick that turns out can change a team completely.

Broncoballa2684
10-04-2005, 03:55 PM
Actually, we traded up about 5 or 6 spots to the 17th overall pick. We gave up Deltha O'Neal and a lower draft pick to make the swap.

But the 17th pick isn't the same as a top 5 pick. It's still minimal financial risk in comparison.



lol i know we were at the 24th and traded for the 17th i ment to say down. but all this talkin about reggie bush, wow if we could get him....we would be sick! you could spilt him out wide and have tatum in the back field?? wowow! i hope the redskins lose the rest of their games!!! haha

OrangePeel
10-04-2005, 03:59 PM
lol i know we were at the 24th and traded for the 17th i ment to say down. but all this talkin about reggie bush, wow if we could get him....we would be sick! you could spilt him out wide and have tatum in the back field?? wowow! i hope the redskins lose the rest of their games!!! haha

nope, so many reasons why that will not, and should not happen.

1) Broncos dont need to draft a RB in the 1st round, they havent in a long time, and that should continue.

2) Reggie is a back that is dependant on being a Run and Gun Offense, big play back, doesnt fit the same mold as Denver Back' s (aka, 1 cut and go), and also relies on having a big back to change the pace of the game (Lindell White). Good back, and good athlete, but not going to be a Bronco anytime soon, most likely never.

broncosfan247
10-04-2005, 04:03 PM
made a poll about this a while back. 4 to 1 would rather keep our 2 first round picks rather than trade up. Personally I think Denver is due for another big superstar. And if it took our 2 first round picks to get a Matt Leinhart, Omar Jacobs, or Mario Williams I would definitely do it.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=41255

OrangePeel
10-04-2005, 04:12 PM
made a poll about this a while back. 4 to 1 would rather keep our 2 first round picks rather than trade up. Personally I think Denver is due for another big superstar. And if it took our 2 first round picks to get a Matt Leinhart, Omar Jacobs, or Mario Williams I would definitely do it.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=41255

Denver could use one more big name, but I dont see where you would find one in this draft.
Positions where you could plug in another Starter are Tackle, WR, Safety, and DT. Only a couple fit the mold, there isnt a big name WR that is a projected 1st rounder, and neither is there a Safety. The only ones i see at DT and Tackle would be:

Mathias Kiwanuka - DT - Boston College



Mathias Kiwanuka has emerged as one of the most feared pass rushers in college football, and will likely be one of the top defensive players available for the 2006 draft. As a sophomore in 2003, Kiwanuka blew up and finished the year with 83 tackles, 16.5 for loss, and 11.5 sacks. That set him up for a lot of attention as a junior, but he did not disappoint. He came through with 67 tackles, an amazing 25.5 tackles for loss, and a Big East leading 11.5 sacks despite being the focal point of opposing coordinators.[

Kiwanuka’s upside is tremendous. Physically, he has it all. He’s tall, athletic, quick, and strong. He can change gameplans with his big play ability. Once he gets moving forward, his quickness and athleticism make him a major pass rushing threat. With his height and wingspan, Mathias can also disrupt passing lanes for quarterbacks.

With all his success, Kiwi is still a work in progress. He relies on his natural gifts too much. With his height, he needs to work on coming off the snap quicker and staying low when engaged with a lineman. At times he will get too high and be taken out of the play. With his large frame, Kiwanuka could also stand to use some more weight at the next level.

Kiwi has as much upside as any defensive player in this draft. He has the physical gifts NFL teams covet as a pass rusher these days. He is an athletic pass rushers, but he has the frame to add the weight to become a very well rounded end. Kiwanuka will be in very high demand in the draft and should hear his name called high in April.

Him and D'brickshaw Fergsuon are 1 and 2 on my predraft big board, if ur going to keep your top 10 draft pick, make sure its for one of them.

TXBRONC
10-06-2005, 09:02 AM
The following question in another thread got me wondering how most people felt about this. And since I enjoy creating the occasional poll... ;)

In 1991 we picked Mike Croel with the 4th pick in the draft. He played well for a couple seasons then faded away.

In 1983 we drafted Chris Hinton with the 4th pick in the draft and traded him away for John Elway. :beer:

Those are the only two times in the past 30 years that we've had a top 10 pick. I'd say we've done alright without them considering we probably have the best overall record in the entire NFL over that same period, or at least the most winning seasons.

In my opinion, high picks are not worth the risk. You spend a lot more money on them than untested rookies should get paid. Then, even if they perform well, you're still not getting good value for your money. Lower first round picks cost a lot less than the top ones and are still usually very talented but you'll generally get a lot more bang for your buck on their rookie contracts.

If we get a top 5 pick (probably top 10 now, lucky Redskins), then I firmly believe we should trade down for a number of lower first round and second round picks.

Then again, we would not have gotten John Elway without our #4 overall pick to trade for him.

What do you prefer? One very high pick or several lower 1st and 2nd rounders?

Generally speaking I would prefer having more picks rather than just one. The dilema is you might miss out on a player of Elway's caliber. :ugh:

Javalon
10-06-2005, 09:21 AM
Generally speaking I would prefer having more picks rather than just one. The dilema is you might miss out on a player of Elway's caliber. :ugh:
Hey, TX! Long time no see. :beer:

You're right, that is the problem. But then you see guys with talent like Randy Moss, Ray Lewis, Trevor Pryce, Marvin Harrison, etc. that drop late into the first round. Can you imagine picking up a couple guys like that in the same draft?

Unless I had my hopes pinned on a particular QB at the top of the draft, I would trade down almost every time and try to increase my odds with more picks.

TXBRONC
10-06-2005, 09:33 AM
Hey, TX! Long time no see. :beer:

You're right, that is the problem. But then you see guys with talent like Randy Moss, Ray Lewis, Trevor Pryce, Marvin Harrison, etc. that drop late into the first round. Can you imagine picking up a couple guys like that in the same draft?

Unless I had my hopes pinned on a particular QB at the top of the draft, I would trade down almost every time and try to increase my odds with more picks.

I agree. Anyway you look at it you could miss out on a great talent. That's why in the long run its better to have more picks rather than just one.

LordTrychon
10-06-2005, 09:58 AM
I agree. Anyway you look at it you could miss out on a great talent. That's why in the long run its better to have more picks rather than just one.
So here's an interesting hypothetical... would your opinion change if there were no salary cap?

Javalon
10-06-2005, 10:01 AM
So here's an interesting hypothetical... would your opinion change if there were no salary cap?
If I were the owner who had to pay the salaries, probably not. :D

I'm very glad there is a salary cap to keep things competitive. I don't like how the Yankees can basically buy themselves a great team every year while small markets can't. All teams in a league should have the same opportunity to succeed and not have it based on who can afford the most superstars.

LordTrychon
10-06-2005, 10:04 AM
If I were the owner who had to pay the salaries, probably not. :D

I'm very glad there is a salary cap to keep things competitive. I don't like how the Yankees can basically buy themselves a great team every year while small markets can't. All teams in a league should have the same opportunity to succeed and not have it based on who can afford the most superstars.
Well, that's why it was hypothetical. I agree with you completely... but I hate that the Avs had to get a complete facelift since they were the highest payroll in Hockey and there's a cap now.
:coffee:

Cugel
10-06-2005, 10:35 AM
So, most of you would trade down? It's surprising no-one mentioned the best counter-example: Champ Bailey.

Champ Bailey is clearly the best and most talented player on the team. The one true superstar who is considered either the best or close to the best at his position.

And he was the #7 pick of the draft. You need a top 5 pick to guarantee that you get a player like that, if he becomes available.

Right now NOBODY knows who the emerging superstars in the next draft will be. Players move up and down the draft board like chess-pieces. And it's a long way to the draft. Kiwanuka looks like maybe the best DL in the draft -- right now! But what if he's injured or doesn't play as well this season?

What other player will suddenly emerge and maybe be better?

So, you hope for a top 5 pick and on draft day look at your board, look at who's likely to be available when you pick and keep those phone lines open for offers to move down if you'd be happy with a number of players and consider that they will be available when you picked later.

TXBRONC
10-06-2005, 10:41 AM
So here's an interesting hypothetical... would your opinion change if there were no salary cap?

I don't think I would in most cases. The more picks you have the better your chances of building a solid team with depth.

NOLABroncofan
10-06-2005, 10:42 AM
I voted for lower 1st / high 2nd round picks ( for a few reasons ) and would consider trading down further ( low 2nd and a few lower rounds ).

1) Placing all of your faith and hopes in one high round draft pick can be horrible mistake ( ala remember the Earl Campbell trade -and- the Ricky Williams draft trade ). I don't want to take anything away from either of these players as they were both good, however, you lose a helluva lot of possible "depth" players in doing this.

2) Denver has done extremely well in drafting lower round gems. TD, Karl Mecklenburg, Tom Nalen are a few that come to mind. Hell... Rod Smith was undrafted and look what he's done. I think too many NFL teams rely on that #1 pick to suddenly bring them instant success. I'd prefer numbers of "possible" quality players vice one possible "franchise" player again... for depth purposes.

3) The almighty dollar sign has to come into play here. I don't have facts or figures here, but I believe I read somewhere that we spent less $$$ on the 4 Cleveland retreads than we did on Trevor Pryce this year ( prior to his restructured contract deal ). Look what's happened since.

A high first round draft choice is a guaranteed huge paycheck. Most of these players ( with few exceptions ) sit around for the first couple years or so "learning the system".... why pay a guy that much to sit on his ass -or- in the case of a rookie QB to hold a clipboard for 2-3 years ?

The lower round guys command less of a salary and are more viable to play ( at least on special teams ) in the present.

I could go into all kinds of detail, but the bottom line imho is Depth + lower Salary > a one time gamble.

Nola

JRWIZ
10-06-2005, 10:51 AM
Rather have a 10-15 pick with someone other than Mikey making the call. As he would probably take a flyer (leap of faith) again like he has in most of his drafts.
While most of his top choices have worked out, most could have been had later in the draft, others could have we could have had in perhaps different positions most likely would have been better players.

We have hashed this rehashed, and re-rehashed till we are blue in the face.

If we can't find a quality player every year in the first round that potentially should be able to start in their second year at the latest, then something is wrong. Yes I know that sometimes we draft for depth, but they should be able to start if not the first year then the second at the least.

Usually even in the first 3 rounds you are talking about the top 100 players in the draft. If you can't find some one in that area we need to fire staff that scouts.

Now that been said are their gonna be stinkers in there sure always gonna be someone that gets hurt after the draft. But with the combine and the physicals and timing done there as well as the testing.

Anyone that gets drafted on the first day should be an automatic. IMHO.

Javalon
10-06-2005, 11:05 AM
Anyone that gets drafted on the first day should be an automatic. IMHO.
And yet a large percentage are not.


We have hashed this rehashed, and re-rehashed till we are blue in the face.
So why re-re-rehash it now? This was a hypothetical question about your preference for a single high or multiple lower first and second rounders. This had nothing to do with Shanny but you brought him into it anyway.

Isn't this kind of like somebody always bashing Plummer when the thread isn't geared toward him? :confused:

JRWIZ
10-06-2005, 11:54 AM
And yet a large percentage are not.


So why re-re-rehash it now? This was a hypothetical question about your preference for a single high or multiple lower first and second rounders. This had nothing to do with Shanny but you brought him into it anyway.

Isn't this kind of like somebody always bashing Plummer when the thread isn't geared toward him? :confused:



Because it goes to what I was trying to say, IN context and the reasoning behind why.

I'd rather have the 10-20 choice as they are the best value, IF we chose wisely. Not everyone that is on the board today has been around since the last couple of DAFTS.

The prime point is MIKEY makes the decsions, whereas alot of the Jake comments are out of the blue.

TXBRONC
10-06-2005, 12:03 PM
Rather have a 10-15 pick with someone other than Mikey making the call. As he would probably take a flyer (leap of faith) again like he has in most of his drafts.
While most of his top choices have worked out, most could have been had later in the draft, others could have we could have had in perhaps different positions most likely would have been better players.

We have hashed this rehashed, and re-rehashed till we are blue in the face.

If we can't find a quality player every year in the first round that potentially should be able to start in their second year at the latest, then something is wrong. Yes I know that sometimes we draft for depth, but they should be able to start if not the first year then the second at the least.

Usually even in the first 3 rounds you are talking about the top 100 players in the draft. If you can't find some one in that area we need to fire staff that scouts.


Now that been said are their gonna be stinkers in there sure always gonna be someone that gets hurt after the draft. But with the combine and the physicals and timing done there as well as the testing.

Anyone that gets drafted on the first day should be an automatic. IMHO.

Your last statement is not accurate. Many times players are drafted in the first round based on their potenital not necessarily that they are ready to make an impact right away.

JRWIZ
10-06-2005, 12:12 PM
Your last statement is not accurate. Many times players are drafted in the first round based on their potenital not necessarily that they are ready to make an impact right away.


But read in the text written above it, I'll restate what I said.

"If we can't find a quality player every year in the first round that potentially should be able to start in their second year at the latest, then something is wrong. Yes I know that sometimes we draft for depth, but they should be able to start if not the first year then the second at the least."


Now if we are drafting talent for 3 or 4 years from now our priorities are really screwed up. Or we have such awesome talent we really don't need to be drafting , if that is the case trade some or trade your choices.

I can't think of a single position that I'd want to waste a high draft choice on and let them set for 3years can you?

AGAIN IMHO

BTW welcome home.

TXBRONC
10-06-2005, 12:18 PM
Now if we are drafting talent for 3 or 4 years from now our priorities are really screwed up. Or we have such awesome talent we really don't need to be drafting , if that is the case trade some or trade your choices.

BTW welcome home.

I think you missed what I mean. Denver is not the only team that has drafted a player with idea he would not start right away. That's not necessarily a screw up.

Thanks.

MileHighSpirit
10-06-2005, 12:28 PM
Normally I would want picks in the middle area of the draft. Don't go higher than #8, but don't go lower than #20. In most draft years the "amazing" talent is usually gone by about pick 20. This year's draft has a lot of good prospects, so having a 20-30 pick this year isn't so bad.

Needs this year? (in no particular order)

#1: A true game-changing D-lineman. Someone that takes our defense from being good (like we are now) to being dominant; like Richard Seymour.

#2: A replacement for Lepsis if he demands too much money. We will most likely draft one no matter how much he asks for. It is such a good year to do it with all the talent at OT why not?

#3: A playmaking safety. Lynch is over the hill and gaining speed on the descent. Ferguson is old as well, and only Brandon Browner looks like he could be a long term replacement. There is enough playmaking FS prospects that we have no excuse not to draft one in the first or second rounds.

#4: Interior O-line depth. Shanahan has actually talked about this as a weakness in press confrences, and with some very good Denver-like lineman available I can't see him passing them up.

#5: Redzone playmakers. For all the TE talent we have, there isn't too much long term promise. Putzier is a great receiving TE, but his blocking is suspect. Alexander is old and injury prone. Jackson won't be any better at TE than he would have been at receiver, and Duke, while promising, is still just a project. Of our WRs only Darrius Watts has shown flashes of redzone greatness. Look for some solution to our redzone/short yardage problem in this upcoming draft; most likely at WR.

JRWIZ
10-06-2005, 12:34 PM
I think you missed what I mean. Denver is not the only team that has drafted a player with idea he would not start right away. That's not necessarily a screw up.

Thanks.

I don't care about other teams, For being one of the top coaches int eh league making top 5 money so to speak I expect more out of Mikey than I would out of dennis green or any of the non elite coaches.

Their is NO fan on this forum that can say with a straight face that we have not reached for someone during each of our "first day" drafts since Mikey has come to town and making the decisions.

I'm not saying that the first day players have to start day one, but they SHOULD HAVE the potential to do so. They should be drafting starters NOT backups on the first day and any gems on the second day are genius picks.

Just like this year we drafted a bevee of DB's, while the CB's we have are one all pro and one I think potential all pro that were starters. But they have had to step up and start because of injuries. They had the potential and it worked.

We can not say (with a straight Face) in "most" previous drafts the players could have done that.

OrangePeel
10-07-2005, 10:33 PM
So, most of you would trade down? It's surprising no-one mentioned the best counter-example: Champ Bailey.

Champ Bailey is clearly the best and most talented player on the team. The one true superstar who is considered either the best or close to the best at his position.

And he was the #7 pick of the draft. You need a top 5 pick to guarantee that you get a player like that, if he becomes available.

Right now NOBODY knows who the emerging superstars in the next draft will be. Players move up and down the draft board like chess-pieces. And it's a long way to the draft. Kiwanuka looks like maybe the best DL in the draft -- right now! But what if he's injured or doesn't play as well this season?

What other player will suddenly emerge and maybe be better?

So, you hope for a top 5 pick and on draft day look at your board, look at who's likely to be available when you pick and keep those phone lines open for offers to move down if you'd be happy with a number of players and consider that they will be available when you picked later.

There is some basis to your argument, a top 5 pick does get you one of the top 5 most high profiled players, but there is in no way a guarantee that they will come out and perform their rookie year, and even at all in their career. When you hafve 6th round draft picks turning into the greatest Player to ever play their position (sharpe), and 1st overalls becoming the greatest embarassment to ever play their position (Ki Jana Carter)

Check the last 10 drafts, and their top 10 picks, 94-04

1994
1 Cincinnati Dan Wilkinson DT Ohio State
2 Indianapolis Marshall Faulk RB San Diego State
3 Washington Heath Shuler QB Tennessee
4 New England Willie McGinest OLB Southern California
5 Indianapolis Trev Alberts LB Nebraska
6 Tampa Bay Trent Dilfer QB Fresno State
7 San Francisco Bryant Young DT Notre Dame
8 Seattle Sam Adams DT Texas A&M
9 Cleveland Antonio Langham CB Alabama
10 Arizona Jamir Miller OLB UCLA


In this class, the players that panned out are Wilkinson, Faulk, McGinest, Diler somewhat, Young, and Adams. One of the more fruitful top 10's of the 90's drafts.

1995

1 Cincinnati Ki-Jana Carter RB Penn State
2 Jacksonville Tony Boselli T Southern California
3 Houston Steve McNair QB Alcorn State
4 Washington Michael Westbrook WR Colorado
5 Carolina Kerry Collins QB Penn State
6 St. Louis Kevin Carter DT Florida
7 Philadelphia Mike Mamula DE Boston College
8 Seattle Joey Galloway WR Ohio State
9 N.Y. Jets Kyle Brady TE Penn State
10 San Francisco J.J. Stokes WR UCLA

This draft has one of the better Draft Busts in the past decade in Carter, the gems of this top 10 are Mcnair, Collins, Carter, Mamula, Galloway, and Brady. Stokes and Westbrook were 2 of the most Overhyped recievers in recent memory to come out of college, but every draft has their bad eggs.

1996

1 N.Y. Jets Keyshawn Johnson WR Southern California
2 Jacksonville Kevin Hardy OLB Illinois
3 Arizona Simeon Rice DE Illinois
4 Baltimore Jonathan Ogden T UCLA
5 N.Y. Giants Cedric Jones DE Oklahoma
6 St. Louis Lawrence Phillips RB Nebraska
7 New England Terry Glenn WR Ohio State
8 Carolina Tim Biakabutuka RB Michigan
9 Oakland Rickey Dudley TE Ohio State
10 Cincinnati Willie Anderson T Auburn

For the most past, Keyshawn did what he was expected to do in the NFL, but obviously not as much as his mouth could say he would do. So we'll put him in the "gem" category. Hardy played great OLB for the Jaguars 6 years, and a 1time probowler. Rice obvioulsy is in there, as are Odgen, Glenn, and Anderson.
1997

1 St. Louis Orlando Pace T Ohio State
2 Oakland Darrell Russell DT Southern California
3 Seattle Shawn Springs CB Ohio State
4 Baltimore Peter Boulware OLB Florida State
5 Detroit Bryant Westbrook CB Texas
6 Seattle Walter Jones T Florida State
7 N.Y. Giants Ike Hilliard WR Florida
8 N.Y. Jets James Farrior ILB Virginia
9 Arizona Tommy Knight CB Iowa
10 New Orleans Chris Naeole G Colorado
11 Atlanta Michael Booker CB Nebraska

Pace, Russell, Springs, and Boulware. Probably one of the best top 5's of the 90's. But after that, only Farrior stands out.

1998

1 Indianapolis Peyton Manning QB Tennessee
2 San Diego Ryan Leaf QB Washington State
3 Arizona Andre Wadsworth DE Florida State
4 Oakland Charles Woodson CB Michigan
5 Chicago Curtis Enis RB Penn State
6 St. Louis Grant Wistrom DE Nebraska
7 New Orleans Kyle Turley T San Diego State
8 Dallas Greg Ellis DE North Carolina
9 Jacksonville Fred Taylor RB Florida
10 Baltimore Duane Starks CB Miami

Manning, Woodson, Wistrom, Turley, Ellis, and Taylor. Good draft class, but it could of been hit or miss here as taylor could of easily fallen down further, as could turley. And of course Ryan leaf is present :D/

1999

Cleveland Tim Couch QB Kentucky
2 Philadelphia Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse
3 Cincinnati Akili Smith QB Oregon
4 Indianapolis Edgerrin James RB Miami
5 New Orleans Ricky Williams RB Texas
6 St. Louis Torry Holt WR North Carolina State
7 Washington Champ Bailey CB Georgia
8 Arizona David Boston WR Ohio State
9 Detroit Chris Claiborne OLB Southern California
10 Baltimore Chris McAlister CB Arizona

Some great busts here, but all around great top 10. Couch of course one of the worst top 10 picks to recent date. As is smith, who IMO was overhyped in the easy Pac 10. besides them, all calss, mcnabb, james, williams, holt, bailey, boston, claiborne, and mcAlister. But the talent in the 1st round as a whole made it almost impossible not to draft a great player.

11 Minnesota Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida
12 Chicago Cade McNown QB UCLA
13 Pittsburgh Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech
14 Kansas City John Tait T Brigham Young
15 Tampa Bay Anthony McFarland DT Louisiana State
16 Tennessee Jevon Kearse DE Florida
17 New England Damien Woody G Boston College
18 Oakland Matt Stinchcomb G Georgia
19 N.Y. Giants Luke Petitgout T Notre Dame
20 Dallas Ebenezer Ekuban DE North Carolina
21 Arizona L.J. Shelton T Eastern Michigan
22 Seattle Lamar King DE Saginaw Valley
23 Buffalo Antoine Winfield CB Ohio State
24 San Francisco Reggie McGrew DT Florida
25 Green Bay Antuan Edwards FS Clemson
26 Jacksonville Fernando Bryant CB Alabama
27 Detroit Aaron Gibson T Wisconsin
28 New England Andy Katzenmoyer MLB Ohio State
29 Minnesota Dimitrius Underwood DT Michigan State
30 Atlanta Patrick Kerney DE Virginia
31 Denver Al Wilson MLB Tennessee

10 of the next 21 picks were worth their spot on the board IMO, and some are borderline, and still could prove to be worth their spots.

2000

1 Cleveland Courtney Brown DE Penn State
2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State
3 Washington Chris Samuels T Alabama
4 Cincinnati Peter Warrick WR Florida State
5 Baltimore Jamal Lewis RB Tennessee
6 Philadelphia Corey Simon DT Florida State
7 Arizona Thomas Jones RB Virginia
8 Pittsburgh Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
9 Chicago Brian Urlacher MLB New Mexico
10 Baltimore Travis Taylor WR Florida

Brown is on his wayout of bust status for us, but until then, he is one. Arrington, Samuels, Lewis, Simon, and Burress are gems here. I dont put Urlacher because I think he is the most overated player in football (might be some bias, but I continue to say so)

2001

1 Atlanta Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech
2 Arizona Leonard Davis T Texas
3 Cleveland Gerard Warren DT Florida
4 Cincinnati Justin Smith DE Missouri
5 San Diego LaDainian Tomlinson RB Texas Christian
6 New England Richard Seymour DE Georgia
7 San Francisco Andre Carter DE California
8 Chicago David Terrell WR Michigan
9 Seattle Koren Robinson WR North Carolina State
10 Green Bay Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State

Vick (even though i dont think hes all hes cracked up to be), Davis, Smith, Tomlinson, Seymour, and Carter stand out here. Warrenn is just like brown, but hes still in bust status. Another 50/50 chance of getting a dead pick here.

OrangePeel
10-07-2005, 10:33 PM
2002

1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2 Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas
5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
7 Minnesota Bryant McKinnie T Miami
8 Dallas Roy Williams FS Oklahoma
9 Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee
10 Cincinnati Levi Jones T Arizona State

Carr is on the edge of turning into a bust, but hes been good the past 2 years. Peppers, Williams, Jammer, Williams, and Henderson are the gems here. 60/40 doesnt guarantee you a good player, now does it?

2003

1 Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB Southern California
2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami
4 N.Y. Jets Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky
5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State
6 New Orleans Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia
7 Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall
8 Carolina Jordan Gross T Utah
9 Minnesota Kevin Williams DT Oklahoma State
10 Baltimore Terrell Suggs OLB Arizona State

Palmer has been great this year, so hes a definate stud here. Rogers has been solid, Andre is in a down year, but was great last year. Newman has been a solid #2 CB for Dallas, Leftwich is on his way to a good season, Williams has been great in his 2 yrs at minnesotta, and Suggs won the Defensive ROY in 03'. 7/10, not bad, but it leaves 3 maybes, but those 3 could pan out.

1 San Diego Eli Manning QB Mississippi
2 Oakland Robert Gallery T Iowa
3 Arizona Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
4 N.Y. Giants Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
5 Washington Sean Taylor FS Miami
6 Cleveland Kellen Winslow TE Miami
7 Detroit Roy Williams WR Texas
8 Atlanta DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech
9 Jacksonville Reggie Williams WR Washington
10 Houston Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina

tough draft to judge this early, but from the looks of it, there are about 7 of the 10 already looking to have a good career, and the other 3 have been riddled injuries or a blocked position.


Even though you see the majority of the top 10 being great in the past drafts, i dont like the 50% of choosing a bust, or a stud, but paying the same price for the two. As i posted earlier in the thread, the 15-20 picks are a much safter bet, with a lower risk, and added depth if you can get a high-mid 2nd round pick as well.

Broncos04Champs
10-08-2005, 05:15 AM
Thanks for posting those picks Orangepeel.

I'm in favor of using both 1st round picks and not trading up, but it all depends what is offered to us. Sometimes teams really want to trade down, so it all depends. At this point, and it is too early to judge, I would want a O-Lineman and Safety..

DURANGO BRONCO
10-08-2005, 09:47 AM
Because of Cap limitations, we probably can't afford a top 5 pick*. It would be exciting to have one, but it is likely that we use both picks mid to late 1st rd and hope to find 2 value picks. Remember that there is power in numbers.

*
Top 10 pick demands $13-50 million

Pick 10-20 demands $10-13 million

Pick 20-32 demands $6-9 million

Dean
10-08-2005, 03:21 PM
If this draft is as deep as most "experts" say, we should be able to get quantity, quality, and without mortgaging the future into cap hell. I say go for it and keep both first round picks. If we get the two compensatory picks, we could think about using some of our other picks to trade up slightly. Honestly at this time I think we should keep them all.

OrangePeel
10-08-2005, 05:38 PM
another thing to think about:

A package of 2 1st round picks, and Tatum Bell or another young guy at a loaded position could land us just about any player in the league not named Peyton Manning, Any objections to a deal that could get us Ed Reed, or a player of that caliber and a 2nd rounder?

Also, Denver has a history of always dangling their 1st round picks in trades. Now with 2, i could imagine Shanny and the Broncos War room will be working hard looking at every possible scenario for a trade. It wouldnt suprise me at all that they trade one of our players for MORE picks. So far we have:

1st Round (2 picks)
2nd Round (1 Pick)+2 Compensatory (Kennedy+Hayward FA losses)
3rd Round (1 pick)
4th Round (1 Pick) + 1 Compensatory (Kelly Herndon FA loss)
5th Round (1 Pick)
6th Round (1 Pick)
7th Round (1 Pick)

total of 11 Picks, (the hayward pick would net us a low 2nd round position, and the kennedy would give us a low 2nd, or high 3rd)

I dont think Shannahan has any more faith in the FA Markey as the last few experiments (i,e Gardner) have gone sour. Drafting a stock load of players at the positions we need is probably the way he would like to go about it, as evidenced with the CB position this year. I think he might try this strategy with 2-3 hand picked players at the Safety, Oline, and Dline positions. Maybe a WR, and a LB in the mix, and you can call it a draft.

TXBRONC
10-08-2005, 05:47 PM
another thing to think about:

A package of 2 1st round picks, and Tatum Bell or another young guy at a loaded position could land us just about any player in the league not named Peyton Manning, Any objections to a deal that could get us Ed Reed, or a player of that caliber and a 2nd rounder?

Also, Denver has a history of always dangling their 1st round picks in trades. Now with 2, i could imagine Shanny and the Broncos War room will be working hard looking at every possible scenario for a trade. It wouldnt suprise me at all that they trade one of our players for MORE picks. So far we have:

1st Round (2 picks)
2nd Round (1 Pick)+2 Compensatory (Kennedy+Hayward FA losses)
3rd Round (1 pick)
4th Round (1 Pick) + 1 Compensatory (Kelly Herndon FA loss)
5th Round (1 Pick)
6th Round (1 Pick)
7th Round (1 Pick)

total of 11 Picks, (the hayward pick would net us a low 2nd round position, and the kennedy would give us a low 2nd, or high 3rd)

I dont think Shannahan has any more faith in the FA Markey as the last few experiments (i,e Gardner) have gone sour. Drafting a stock load of players at the positions we need is probably the way he would like to go about it, as evidenced with the CB position this year. I think he might try this strategy with 2-3 hand picked players at the Safety, Oline, and Dline positions. Maybe a WR, and a LB in the mix, and you can call it a draft.

If not mistaken we wont get a compensatory pick for Herndon, Shanahan had a choice of putting a tag on him or Walls and he chose put a tag on Walls. Kelly was let go with no strings attached.

OrangePeel
10-08-2005, 05:48 PM
If not mistaken we wont get a compensatory pick for Herndon, Shanahan had a choice of putting a tag on him or Walls and he chose put a tag on Walls. Kelly was let go with no strings attached.

oh that is true, escaped my mind. Still, 10 draft picks is alot of youth to put on the roster, and shanny has a couple ways to go with it.

TXBRONC
10-08-2005, 05:56 PM
oh that is true, escaped my mind. Still, 10 draft picks is alot of youth to put on the roster, and shanny has a couple ways to go with it.


No doubt about that, I like having as many options as possible. Btw thanks for putting things together the way you did.

Broncos04Champs
10-08-2005, 05:59 PM
I hate the idea of trading both picks plus someone like Tatum just for one really good young player.

Basically, if that one player gets a career ending injury we just traded 3 starters for nothing.

Now that.... is putting all your eggs in one basket..

I hope we just draft - trade the 2 1st rounders for a really high first rounder if we want to (especially if rod retired or ashley doesn't pan out this year)

but don't trade for some ed reed or whoever. Can you say Hershel Walker?

I3IzOnCoF4n24
10-08-2005, 08:58 PM
I dont put Urlacher because I think he is the most overated player in football (might be some bias, but I continue to say so)

DEFENSIVE STATS

Year G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg Pass Def
2000 16 124 98 26 8 2 19 9.5 19 3
2001 16 116 89 27 6 3 60 20 41 5
2002 16 151 115 36 4.5 1 0 0 0 0
2003 16 116 87 29 2.5 0 0 0 0 0
2004 9 70 52 18 5.5 1 42 42 42 6
2005 3 22 18 4 3 0 0 0 0 0
TOTAL 76 599 459 140 29.5 7 121 17.3 42 24


i dont think this he is too overrated seeing as he even missed 6 games in 2004...

Bokyong
10-08-2005, 09:51 PM
I know a lot of you are saying that we dont need to draft an elite RB in the first round (top 5) and we can get our RB's from the bottom of the barrell (as in the past, but did you ever wonder what someone with the skills of LT on our team could do?

If you think we can make an average back into a 1200+ yard runner, what could we do with a top 5 back like LT, or Priest of Alexander? Iam not saying to trade for them, but I am just saying think about what an elite RB can do for us.

What's scary is the only time we had the best RB in the game on our team was TD. His numbers were sick. I know MA, and Tatum and Dayne are not even top 10 backs, but they do the job for us and are productive. We get another RB like a LT or a TD, I see 2,000 yards easy and everyone is gonna fear the run, thus opening the pass.

After all that talking, I choose to take a gamebreaker RB with the top 5 pick and with that RB in there, it will open up a lot of options for Jake. Remember Elway never won the Superbowls without an elite back like TD. We need someone who will make opponents FEAR the run.

rcsodak
10-08-2005, 10:02 PM
another thing to think about:

A package of 2 1st round picks, and Tatum Bell or another young guy at a loaded position could land us just about any player in the league not named Peyton Manning, Any objections to a deal that could get us Ed Reed, or a player of that caliber and a 2nd rounder?

Also, Denver has a history of always dangling their 1st round picks in trades. Now with 2, i could imagine Shanny and the Broncos War room will be working hard looking at every possible scenario for a trade. It wouldnt suprise me at all that they trade one of our players for MORE picks. So far we have:

1st Round (2 picks)
2nd Round (1 Pick)+2 Compensatory (Kennedy+Hayward FA losses)
3rd Round (1 pick)
4th Round (1 Pick) + 1 Compensatory (Kelly Herndon FA loss)
5th Round (1 Pick)
6th Round (1 Pick)
7th Round (1 Pick)

total of 11 Picks, (the hayward pick would net us a low 2nd round position, and the kennedy would give us a low 2nd, or high 3rd)


Let me know if I'm wrong, but don't the compensatory picks end up at the END of the rounds?

rcsodak
10-08-2005, 10:07 PM
Here's an idea that I haven't seen mentioned....

How 'bout keeping Washington's pick, and I'm assuming it's an earlier pick, and trading denver's for more picks and/or another 1st rounder next year, like they did this year.

We'd still have a #1 pick, with a chance for an early to mid-rounder, plus additionals.........

Could be the best of both worlds, what with the CBA fiasco and all........

OrangePeel
10-08-2005, 10:20 PM
I know a lot of you are saying that we dont need to draft an elite RB in the first round (top 5) and we can get our RB's from the bottom of the barrell (as in the past, but did you ever wonder what someone with the skills of LT on our team could do?

If you think we can make an average back into a 1200+ yard runner, what could we do with a top 5 back like LT, or Priest of Alexander? Iam not saying to trade for them, but I am just saying think about what an elite RB can do for us.

What's scary is the only time we had the best RB in the game on our team was TD. His numbers were sick. I know MA, and Tatum and Dayne are not even top 10 backs, but they do the job for us and are productive. We get another RB like a LT or a TD, I see 2,000 yards easy and everyone is gonna fear the run, thus opening the pass.

After all that talking, I choose to take a gamebreaker RB with the top 5 pick and
with that RB in there, it will open up a lot of options for Jake. Remember Elway never won the Superbowls without an elite back like TD. We need someone who will make opponents FEAR the run.

The thing is, for Denver, the difference between a 1st round RB, and a 5th Round RB doesnt make much of a difference, as each back shannahan drafts is HAND PICKED. I dont think it has as much to do with drafting from the bottom of the barrell as it has to do with just drafting what was most needed, and being able to get another player from Shanny's big list of RB's in a later round that makes it seem like we pull players out of the garbage bin and turn them into the stars.

For example take 2002, the year we drafted Portis.

1st Round
1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2 Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas
5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
7 Minnesota Bryant McKinnie T Miami
8 Dallas Roy Williams FS Oklahoma
9 Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee
10 Cincinnati Levi Jones T Arizona State
11 Indianapolis Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse
12 Arizona Wendell Bryant DT Wisconsin
13 New Orleans Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee
14 N.Y. Giants Jeremy Shockey TE Miami
15 Tennessee Albert Haynesworth DT Tennessee
16 Cleveland William Green RB Boston College
17 Oakland Phillip Buchanon CB Miami
18 Atlanta T.J. Duckett RB Michigan State
19 Denver Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
20 Green Bay Javon Walker WR Florida State
21 New England Daniel Graham TE Colorado
22 N.Y. Jets Bryan Thomas DE Ala.-Birmingham
23 Oakland Napoleon Harris ILB Northwestern
24 Baltimore Ed Reed SS Miami
25 New Orleans Charles Grant DE Georgia
26 Philadelphia Lito Sheppard CB Florida
27 San Francisco Mike Rumph CB Miami
28 Seattle Jerramy Stevens TE Washington
29 Chicago Marc Colombo T Boston College
30 Pittsburgh Kendall Simmons G Auburn
31 St. Louis Robert Thomas MLB UCLA
32 Washington Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane

2nd Round

33 Houston Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
34 Carolina DeShaun Foster RB UCLA
35 Detroit Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina
36 Buffalo Josh Reed WR Louisiana State
37 Dallas Andre Gurode G Colorado
38 Minnesota Raonall Smith OLB Washington State
39 San Diego Toniu Fonoti G Nebraska
40 Jacksonville Mike Pearson T Florida
41 Cincinnati Lamont Thompson FS Washington State
42 Indianapolis Larry Tripplett DT Washington
43 Kansas City Eddie Freeman DE Ala.-Birmingham
44 New Orleans LeCharles Bentley C Ohio State
45 Tennessee Tank Williams SS Stanford
46 N.Y. Giants Tim Carter WR Auburn
47 Cleveland Andre' Davis WR Virginia Tech
48 San Diego Reche Caldwell WR Florida
49 Arizona Levar Fisher OLB North Carolina State
50 Houston Chester Pitts G San Diego State
51 Denver Clinton Portis RB Miami
52 Baltimore Anthony Weaver DE Notre Dame
53 Oakland Langston Walker T California
54 Seattle Maurice Morris RB Oregon
55 Oakland Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young
56 Washington Ladell Betts RB Iowa
57 N.Y. Jets Jon McGraw FS Kansas State
58 Philadelphia Michael Lewis SS Colorado
59 Philadelphia Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina
60 Seattle Anton Palepoi DE Nevada-Las Vegas
61 Buffalo Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young
62 Pittsburgh Antwaan Randle El WR Indiana
63 Dallas Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh
64 St. Louis Travis Fisher CB Central Florida
65 New England Deion Branch WR Louisville

Id say shanny picked out the diamond RB of the first 2 rounds, as the only one to put up numbers even CLOSE to CP's is Duckett (1943 Yrds, 27 TD's in 4 Years)

CP's Numbers: 4677, 34 TD's in 4 years

Now Lets take the draft before that, 2000, in which we drafted Mike Anderson (who might be on his way to his 2nd 1000 yard season, and reestablishing himself as an NFL RB)

Round 1
1 Cleveland Courtney Brown DE Penn State
2 Washington LaVar Arrington OLB Penn State
3 Washington Chris Samuels T Alabama
4 Cincinnati Peter Warrick WR Florida State
5 Baltimore Jamal Lewis RB Tennessee
6 Philadelphia Corey Simon DT Florida State
7 Arizona Thomas Jones RB Virginia
8 Pittsburgh Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
9 Chicago Brian Urlacher MLB New Mexico
10 Baltimore Travis Taylor WR Florida
11 N.Y. Giants Ron Dayne RB Wisconsin
12 N.Y. Jets Shaun Ellis DE Tennessee
13 N.Y. Jets John Abraham DE South Carolina
14 Green Bay Bubba Franks TE Miami
15 Denver Deltha O'Neal CB California
16 San Francisco Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State
17 Oakland Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State
18 N.Y. Jets Chad Pennington QB Marshall
19 Seattle Shaun Alexander RB Alabama
20 Detroit Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma
21 Kansas City Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
22 Seattle Chris McIntosh T Wisconsin
23 Carolina Rashard Anderson CB Jackson State
24 San Francisco Ahmed Plummer CB Ohio State
25 Minnesota Chris Hovan DT Boston College
26 Buffalo Erik Flowers DE Arizona State
27 N.Y. Jets Anthony Becht TE West Virginia
28 Indianapolis Rob Morris MLB Brigham Young
29 Jacksonville R. Jay Soward WR Southern California
30 Tennessee Keith Bulluck OLB Syracuse
31 St. Louis Trung Canidate RB Arizona

2nd Round

32 Cleveland Dennis Northcutt WR Arizona
33 New Orleans Darren Howard DE Kansas State
34 Cincinnati Mark Roman SS Louisiana State
35 San Francisco John Engelberger DE Virginia Tech
36 Philadelphia Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi
37 Atlanta Travis Claridge G Southern California
38 Pittsburgh Marvel Smith T Arizona State
39 Chicago Mike Brown FS Nebraska
40 Denver Ian Gold OLB Michigan
41 Arizona Raynoch Thompson OLB Tennessee
42 N.Y. Giants Cornelius Griffin DT Alabama
43 San Diego Rogers Beckett SS Marshall
44 Green Bay Chad Clifton T Tennessee
45 Denver Kenoy Kennedy SS Arkansas
46 New England Adrian Klemm T Hawaii
47 Oakland Jerry Porter WR West Virginia
48 San Francisco Jason Webster CB Texas A&M
49 Dallas Dwayne Goodrich CB Tennessee
50 Detroit Barrett Green OLB West Virginia
51 Tampa Bay Cosey Coleman G Tennessee
52 Seattle Ike Charlton CB Virginia Tech
53 Miami Todd Wade T Mississippi
54 Kansas City William Bartee CB Oklahoma
55 Minnesota Fred Robbins DT Wake Forest
56 Minnesota Michael Boireau DE Miami
57 Carolina Deon Grant FS Tennessee
58 Buffalo Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech
59 Indianapolis Marcus Washington OLB Auburn
60 Jacksonville Brad Meester C Northern Iowa
61 Philadelphia Bobbie Williams G Arkansas
62 St. Louis Jacoby Shepherd CB Oklahoma State

Prodigal19
10-08-2005, 10:21 PM
If not mistaken we wont get a compensatory pick for Herndon, Shanahan had a choice of putting a tag on him or Walls and he chose put a tag on Walls. Kelly was let go with no strings attached.
Dont we also have another 3rd round pick, which was included in trade last year with washington, or is that it and we traded away ours? :goofy:

Broncos04Champs
10-08-2005, 10:28 PM
OrangePeel you better be around in April. You are like the king of the draft history. It's so weird to see which players slipped like Shaun Alexander caught my eye.

This upcoming draft is the first one I will have ever really looked forward to. (I was born April 19th 1983 so I missed one of our more important drafts)

OrangePeel
10-08-2005, 10:29 PM
3rd Round

63 Cleveland Travis Prentice RB Miami, O.
64 Washington Lloyd Harrison CB North Carolina State
65 San Francisco Giovanni Carmazzi QB Hofstra
66 Cincinnati Ron Dugans WR Florida State
67 Atlanta Mark Simoneau MLB Kansas State
68 Tennessee Erron Kinney TE Florida
69 Chicago Dez White WR Georgia Tech
70 Denver Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
71 Arizona Darwin Walker DT Tennessee
72 Pittsburgh Kendrick Clancy NT Mississippi
73 N.Y. Giants Ron Dixon WR Lambuth
74 Green Bay Steve Warren NT Nebraska
75 Baltimore Chris Redman QB Louisville
76 New England J.R. Redmond FB Arizona State
77 Pittsburgh Hank Poteat CB Pittsburgh
78 N.Y. Jets Laveranues Coles WR Florida State
79 Cleveland JaJuan Dawson WR Tulane
80 Seattle Darrell Jackson WR Florida
81 Detroit Reuben Droughns FB Oregon
82 Carolina Leander Jordan T Indiana, Pa.
83 San Diego Damion McIntosh T Kansas State
84 Miami Ben Kelly CB Colorado
85 Kansas City Greg Wesley SS Arkansas-Pine Bluff
86 San Francisco Jeff Ulbrich ILB Hawaii
87 Chicago Dustin Lyman TE Wake Forest
88 Minnesota Doug Chapman RB Marshall
89 Buffalo Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech
90 Tampa Bay Nate Webster MLB Miami
91 Indianapolis David Macklin CB Penn State
92 Jacksonville T.J. Slaughter ILB Southern Mississippi
93 Tennessee Byron Frisch DE Brigham Young
94 St. Louis John St. Clair T Virginia

4th Round

5 Cleveland Lewis Sanders CB Maryland
96 New Orleans Terrelle Smith FB Arizona State
97 Cincinnati Curtis Keaton RB James Madison
98 Green Bay Na'il Diggs OLB Ohio State
99 Philadelphia Gari Scott WR Michigan State
100 Atlanta Michael Thompson T Tennessee State
101 Denver Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
102 Arizona David Barrett CB Arkansas
103 Pittsburgh Danny Farmer WR UCLA
104 St. Louis Kaulana Noa G Hawaii
105 N.Y. Giants Brandon Short OLB Penn State
106 Minnesota Antonio Wilson OLB Texas A&M-Commerce
107 Oakland Junior Ioane DE Arizona State
108 San Francisco John Keith SS Furman
109 Dallas Kareem Larrimore CB West Texas A&M
110 Cleveland Aaron Shea TE Michigan
111 San Diego Trevor Gaylor WR Miami, O.
112 Denver Cooper Carlisle G Florida
113 San Diego Leonardo Carson DT Auburn
114 Green Bay Anthony Lucas WR Arkansas
115 Kansas City Frank Moreau RB Louisville
116 Seattle Marcus Bell OLB Arizona
117 Miami Deon Dyer FB North Carolina
118 Minnesota Tyrone Carter SS Minnesota
119 Seattle Isaiah Kacyvenski OLB Harvard
120 Carolina Alvin McKinley DT Mississippi State
121 Buffalo Avion Black WR Tennessee State
122 Indianapolis Josh Williams DT Michigan
123 Jacksonville Joe Chustz T Louisiana Tech
124 Tennessee Bobby Myers FS Wisconsin
125 Chicago Reggie Austin CB Wake Forest
126 Green Bay Gary Berry FS Ohio State
127 New England Greg Randall T Michigan State
128 Tennessee Peter Sirmon OLB Oregon
129 Washington Michael Moore G Troy State

Round 5

130 Cleveland Anthony Malbrough CB Texas Tech
131 New Orleans Tutan Reyes G Mississippi
132 San Francisco Paul Smith FB Texas-El Paso
133 Cincinnati Robert Bean CB Mississippi State
134 Atlanta Anthony Midget CB Virginia Tech
135 Tennessee Aric Morris SS Michigan State
136 Arizona Mao Tosi DT Idaho
137 Pittsburgh Clark Haggans OLB Colorado State
138 Indianapolis Matt Johnson C Brigham Young
139 St. Louis Brian Young DT Texas-El Paso
140 N.Y. Giants Ralph Brown CB Nebraska
141 New England Dave Stachelski TE Boise State
142 Oakland Shane Lechler P Texas A&M
143 N.Y. Jets Windrell Hayes WR Southern California
144 Dallas Michael Wiley RB Ohio State
145 Detroit Todd Franz SS Tulsa
146 Cleveland Lamar Chapman CB Kansas State
147 Carolina Gillis Wilson DE Southern U.
148 Baltimore Richard Mercier G Miami
149 Green Bay Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila OLB San Diego State
150 San Francisco John Milem DE Lenoir-Rhyne
151 Green Bay Joey Jamison WR Texas Southern
152 Miami Arturo Freeman FS South Carolina
153 Kansas City Dante' Hall WR Texas A&M
154 Denver Muneer Moore WR Richmond
155 Washington Quincy Sanders DB Nevada-Las Vegas
156 Buffalo Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech
157 Tampa Bay James Whalen TE Kentucky
158 New Orleans Austin Wheatley TE Iowa
159 Jacksonville Kiwaukee Thomas CB Georgia Southern
160 Tennessee Frank Chamberlin MLB Boston College
161 New England Jeff Marriott G Missouri
162 Kansas City Pat Dennis CB Louisiana-Monroe
163 Pittsburgh Tee Martin QB Tennessee
164 Arizona Jay Tant TE Northwestern
165 Minnesota Troy Walters WR Stanford
166 New Orleans Chad Morton RB Southern California

Round 6

167 Miami Ernest Grant DT Arkansas-Pine Bluff
168 New Orleans Marc Bulger QB West Virginia
169 Cincinnati Neil Rackers K Illinois
170 Chicago Frank Murphy WR Kansas State
171 Philadelphia Thomas Hamner RB Minnesota
172 Atlanta Mareno Philyaw WR Troy State
173 Pittsburgh Chris Combs DE Duke
174 Chicago Paul Edinger K Michigan State
175 Seattle James Williams WR Marshall
176 Arizona Jabari Issa DE Washington
177 N.Y. Giants Dhani Jones OLB Michigan
178 Philadelphia John Frank DE Utah
179 N.Y. Jets Tony Scott CB North Carolina State
180 Dallas Mario Edwards CB Florida State
181 Detroit Quinton Reese DE Auburn
182 Carolina Jeno James G Auburn
183 Cleveland Spergon Wynn QB S.W. Texas State
184 San Diego Shannon Taylor OLB Virginia
185 Seattle Tim Watson DT Rowan
186 Baltimore Adalius Thomas OLB Southern Mississippi
187 New England Antwan Harris FS Virginia
188 Kansas City Darnell Alford G Boston College
189 Denver Mike Anderson FB Utah
190 Seattle John Hilliard DT Mississippi State
191 Baltimore Cedric Woodard DT Texas
192 Philadelphia John Romero C California
193 Tampa Bay David Gibson SS Southern California
194 Buffalo Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso
195 New Orleans Michael Hawthorne CB Purdue
196 Jacksonville Emanuel Smith WR Arkansas
197 Tennessee Robaire Smith DE Michigan State
198 St. Louis Matt Bowen SS Iowa
199 New England Tom Brady QB Michigan
200 New Orleans Sherrod Gideon WR Southern Mississippi
201 New England David Nugent DE Purdue
202 Washington Todd Husak QB Stanford
203 San Diego Damen Wheeler DB Colorado
204 Pittsburgh Jason Gavadza TE Kent State
205 San Diego JaJuan Seider QB Florida A&M
206 Cleveland Brad Bedell T Colorado

the Broncos 2002 draft sheet:

1st: Deltha O'neal
2nd: Ian Gold
3rd: Chris Cole
4th: Cooper Carlisle
5th: Muneer Moore
6th: Mike Anderson

4 of these 6 currenlly hold a starting spot on an NFL team.

RB's in the 00' Draft

1.Jamal Lewis (5th Overall)
2.Thomas Jones (7th Overall)
3.Ron Dayne (11th Overall)
4.Shaun Alexander (19th overall)
5.Trung Canidate (31st Overall)

6.Travis Prentice (63rd Overall)
7.Doug Chapman (88th Overall)
8.Curtis Keaton (97 Overall)
9.Frank moreau (115th Overall)
10.Michael Wiley 144 Overall)
11.Sammy Morris (156 Overall)
12.Chad Morton (New Orleans)

Mike Anderson (189 Overall)

only 3 of the 12 selected before MA have gone on to have fruitful NFL careers, and one of those 3 (Jones) has not put up a 1000 yard season to date (although 942 season)

For my money, i trust Shannahan as the best judge of RB talent in Draft's in the NFL, and I'd like him to continue picking whatever is necessary at the time before choosing an RB, unless he sees the next TD (which even if Bell or MA go off on a 1000 yard season, and he doesnt see a better player on the board, he will grab him)

OrangePeel
10-08-2005, 10:32 PM
OrangePeel you better be around in April. You are like the king of the draft history. It's so weird to see which players slipped like Shaun Alexander caught my eye.

This upcoming draft is the first one I will have ever really looked forward to. (I was born April 19th 1983 so I missed one of our more important drafts)

why thank you, but i am in no way near "king" status :D, but i appreciate the compliment.

All of this can be found on NFl.com's draft resource, all i am doing is reseraching the individual player i am making a judgement on, etc.

I have been watching my fairshare of college football this year though (4 games a week+3 Tivo'd) and then looking at Mock Drafts and Draft Resources, so hopefully i can lend a wise ear in the 2006 Draft. Until then, lets go broncs!

lvbronx
10-08-2005, 11:13 PM
Here's an idea that I haven't seen mentioned....

How 'bout keeping Washington's pick, and I'm assuming it's an earlier pick, and trading denver's for more picks and/or another 1st rounder next year, like they did this year.

We'd still have a #1 pick, with a chance for an early to mid-rounder, plus additionals.........

Could be the best of both worlds, what with the CBA fiasco and all........

This is something I've kind of thought about...Just keep trading a 1st for some extra picks and a first next year.

If this was done for a few years, it could really add up to a lot of extra picks.

There's always some coach/GM that needs to win NOW that will trade next year for this one, which is a benefit of having a stable front office with Shanny, in that he can wait.

You keep trading until the "next year's" pick really pays off with a frachise type player (Elway, Bo Jackson).

I doubt this will happen, but it's a fun for conversation...Why not just keep trading the extra #1 for more picks every year?

..

PsychoChicken
10-08-2005, 11:33 PM
I doubt this will happen, but it's a fun for conversation...Why not just keep trading the extra #1 for more picks every year?

..
To make a long answer short,
The Value Chart (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pvc.gif)
Teams use it to determine whether a trade involving draft picks is balanced. It is tough to find a team that can make a fair trade for a #1 on a yearly basis.

Unless that team is owned by Dan Snyder.

lvbronx
10-08-2005, 11:55 PM
To make a long answer short,
The Value Chart (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pvc.gif)
Teams use it to determine whether a trade involving draft picks is balanced. It is tough to find a team that can make a fair trade for a #1 on a yearly basis.

Unless that team is owned by Dan Snyder.


This chart is for trading down in the same draft....The chart needs to show the "value" for trading a #1 this year, for a number one NEXT year, not for trading down in the same year. Another problem with these charts is that not all drafts are the same so not all slots can have the same relative numbers.

The truth is, we traded a #25 to the Skins...We can keep trading it (just theory) until it's a Top 5, collecting interest in the form of extra 3s and 4s along the way, until it the pick is a "jack pot".

Again, I said it will never happen, however the THEORY is worth discussing and my point is that I feel coaches that have to win NOW are at a disadvantage over coaches with stability.

And because of this, I theorize that coaches over-pay to move up a year. If Shanny felt his job was in any jeopardy, he wouldn't have traded a #1 this year for next, he would have used it to help NOW.

Also consider there's a 24/32 chance or 75% chance we will have a higher draft pick this year than last, based on us having traded the 25th pick in the draft and 32 teams in the NFL, based on pure math. If you feel the Skins are better/worse than average, adjust this number accordingly to suit your guesstimate.

Factor in that next year is presumed to be "better", and those projections are usually accurate, and that we got an extra #3 (Foxworth??? Who???) and number 4.

All we lost is a "year", but we'll even make up that year at the end of the players' careers...

Every year there seems to be one of these trades...And I always feel the team with the patience got the better of the trades...And if there are any more of these type of trades, I hope we're the one with patience making the trade.

.

Fat Joe
10-08-2005, 11:57 PM
Honestly, I would rather see us take more later picks rather then a top 5, unless theres the next Steve Atwater or Shannon Sharpe in the top 5. Then maybe. Or the next Randy Moss, but those guys dont come along often, so yea, like I said, move down.

Dean
10-09-2005, 06:46 AM
Honestly, I would rather see us take more later picks rather then a top 5, unless theres the next Steve Atwater or Shannon Sharpe in the top 5. Then maybe. Or the next Randy Moss, but those guys dont come along often, so yea, like I said, move down.

I don't want the Broncos to trade picks to move down. Denver is a good football team and has been for years. Good football teams already have quality players with a minimum number of positions to fill. Since you can only keep 53, obtaining a multitude of draft picks just means that more often than not you will just have to cut rookies. Few will be able to make the team.

I would prefer that Denver use extra picks to trade up a few spots to get a player at a need position that warrants being picked at that slot rather than taking another player at that position too early. If that is not a possibility, then use them as trade bait. I have been happy with our recent trades. Sometimes a long shot in the draft pays off but the chances are you will just have to cut them at the end of camp and thereby losing the value of the pick.

I am not recomending moving up into the top 5 picks. They are just priced too high unless your team is extremely desperate.

JRWIZ
10-12-2005, 12:28 AM
I don't want the Broncos to trade picks to move down. Denver is a good football team and has been for years. Good football teams already have quality players with a minimum number of positions to fill. Since you can only keep 53, obtaining a multitude of draft picks just means that more often than not you will just have to cut rookies. Few will be able to make the team.

I would prefer that Denver use extra picks to trade up a few spots to get a player at a need position that warrants being picked at that slot rather than taking another player at that position too early. If that is not a possibility, then use them as trade bait. I have been happy with our recent trades. Sometimes a long shot in the draft pays off but the chances are you will just have to cut them at the end of camp and thereby losing the value of the pick.

I am not recomending moving up into the top 5 picks. They are just priced too high unless your team is extremely desperate.

Good reasoning. Let me add I hope that the Broncos hire a real GM with player personnel exprience that can help in teh area of teh draft to improve on the chances of the draft choice being taken will stick and contribute.