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Jared
08-26-2003, 09:42 AM
I didn't know where else to post this, and I think the answers will be too varied for a poll, so here goes.

When speaking of the Broncos, or any other team that you follow, why do some of you use the the terms "we" and "our" instead of "they" and "their", if you are not an official part of the organization? I have always found this strange. I am not making fun of it, but I just don't understand it. I personally have nothing to do with the team winning or losing, nor do they take my advice on personnel or salary cap issues. So why do some of you feel as if you are a part of the team? I became a Broncos fan because I was very interested in the career of Elway, and even though he is gone, I still root for the Broncos. Yet I don't feel as if I am part of the team. I am just a very biased observer! :-)

So I am just looking for some answers to this. I have been reading a lot of posts today about how "our" defense hasn't improved, and "we" won't get to the playoffs if "we" play like "we" did on Monday night against the Colts. I didn't play anything against anyone last night, I was making a late dinner and cleaning house (no cable, couldn't watch game, unfortunately). So therefore, I don't think that 'I' had anything to do with last night.

So I am just curious about your thoughts on this, as to why you feel as if you are a member of the team. No disrespecting, just fascinated by this notion that I don't grasp at all.

REDHEAT
08-26-2003, 09:45 AM
We as fans pay their salary's, so we are a part of their success.. That is why football is so great, because if gives people a feeling of belonging to something. It is a great outlet...

Jared
08-26-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by REDHEAT
We as fans pay their salary's, so we are a part of their success.. That is why football is so great, because if gives people a feeling of belonging to something. It is a great outlet...

Ok, fair enough, but what about someone like me who hasn't been to Denver and hasn't seen the Broncos play? some of them still use the 1st person terms.

Good answer though, the outlet part. I still don't understand the feeling of belonging part. I buy stuff at JCPenney, doesn't make me feel like I am a part of the company.

bklynbronco
08-26-2003, 11:20 AM
There are some fans that follow thier teams and there also fans that are fair weather fans who when their team is good, is a fan and when they are bad, they are no where to be seen. There also fans who follow teams because of one player which I believe that's the category you fall into which I guess your lucky Elway didn't get traded or you wouldn't be on this site. The last category is the fanatic or are very passionate about thier team. That's where a lot of us fall into and at a time I will fall into. Will I paint my body and face orange and blue? No. I'm not that drastic. Will I get into a heated discussion about my team against other fans from other teams?yes. Why? In the eighties the amount of abuse I and many other broncos fans took for getting blownout in the those three super bowls was beyond comprehension. Guess what, we still stood as fans. As hurtful as those losses were, we took em. but they won in 97 and 98 a lot of stress was released and we deserved that as fans. so yes we felt we are as much as part of the team to stick with them through good and the bad, like a marriage. do the broncos do things that make you almost lose faith,yes? Yet being a fan is you stick with your team whether you like thier free agent moves or draft picks or they trade a good player. I hated they got rid of shannon sharpe to baltimore. Did i become a raven fan because he went to baltimore? No. I'm a bronco fan first so i wished him luck on the ravens but also wanted him to lose when we played him. As I much time I spent defending my team and yes I said "MY TEAM" thru my lifetime I don't understand when people question other peoples way of following their team. Jared you ask this question looking for a logical answer. there is none. Why do packer fans where cheeseblocks on thier heads? Why do raider fans wear thier get up in the black hole? Does the fireman at the jets game helping the fans spell J.E.T.S help them win? Probably not. But it's nice to believe we do help our teams in some way or another and your not the first person to ask this question? One thing I noticed that people that usually ask this question and say thier fans of whatever team when they are questioned about their own team usually to avoid heated discussion or slight confontation will agree with what the other person has to say or let thier team get trashed cause they feel it's not worth it. That's fine if your not a confrontational type person. that's where us, the fanatics come in.To argue the points that you won't. We live and die with our teams and if you can't understand that then you have never watched a bronco game with other bronco fans in the room. Jared nothing personal against you just remember when your a fan people are emotionally attached and feel they are the12 man.

gr8moose
08-26-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
There are some fans that follow thier teams and there also fans that are fair weather fans ....against you just remember when your a fan people are emotionally attached and feel they are the12 man.

Yeah dude, all of that and more.

I don't know if, or how often I fall into the we/us category of reference, and the they/their reference. I wear my colors win or lose, whereever I am. From the end of the season to the beginning of the next I try to pick up on my team and what they are doing. I was born in Colorado, near Denver, its what I consider my home town and there is an allegiance I give to the Broncos from that, they represent my "Hometown" where I am from. I posted a reply to you on another thread that kind of goes with this - just a small reference. But its the NFL, its Football and there isn't another sport in this country that receives the Die Hard loyalty that the NFL teams get, its everything from liking players to regional representation and a comination there of. You know how "Baseball" is said to be america's pasttime, well football is our "Passion" and the fans give it that kind of loyalty and belong to it just as much.

In the end its more about where you fit in and how you feel that you belong to it. Like Brklyn said above, some people feel they are as much a part of it as the players are, and with how much time and effort some people devote to being a fan, wouldn't they deserve the righ to feel that way?

Maybe that helps, I don't know - GO BRONCOS!!!!

GSRelyea
08-26-2003, 12:10 PM
Well put Brklyn, could not of said it better myself. Its very hard to explain but football unlike anyother sport (except for Euro soccer) the fans are very passionate about their respected teams.

Snake16
08-26-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Jared
why you feel as if you are a member of the team. No disrespecting, just fascinated by this notion that I don't grasp at all. [/B]

Thats an EASY one... If the team is WINING, then that's definately "MY TEAM"!!! If the team is LOSING, well then THE'RE "YOUR TEAM"!!! :-p

No seriously this is an age old topic that just "earks" some, kind of how it rubs Jared.

I personaly believe that when you feel that strongly about something, pour your heart out into it, almost live & die with it, then you may as well be a part of it as much as ANYONE ELSE!

We buy tuns of Broncos stuff, some goto as many games as possible (Been to all 3 or 4 visits down to Phoenix). The fans in the stadiums aren't yelling for some other team. Their there to be as much a part of it as possible. Lets face it, we "the fans" stick up for the team more than anyone else. You know we are the ones who have to "WALK the TALK" when it comes down to it right here on this message board. Yes even us just being here on this message board might make us a part of the team on some visceral level.

I know of one team, don't remember who, that retired the fans number. The 12th man and it hangs in their stadium, so you tell me if that makes them part of the team...

All that being stated, I still try and refrain from refering to the teams I support (i.e. MY teams) in the "first person". ;-)

bklynbronco
08-27-2003, 11:51 AM
you made a reference to the point "just because I buy stuff from JC penny does it mean that I own part of the company". Your reponse was to the fact that redheat talked about paying the players salary by buying tickets to see games and feeling like your part of the team. I'm sorry to say that i agree with you that you have no grasp at all of being a fan. with the exceptions of the young generation of teenagers who buy sports jerseys to be in fashion, most people buy jerseys that of thier team. It's symbolism jared. I don't buy stuff from JC Penny so I can later root for JC penny workers to do a great sale. I buy bronco stuff and watch bronco games to root them on and feel like one team. your analogy was really off . Theres a thread on this web site that i believe that states "Is there any bronco fans as old as I am" please read those post. You say your a laker fan? Do you hate the celtics or pistons or sixers? If not then you just became a laker fan. My best friend is a laker fan and he can't stand those teams why? Because all those teams were big rivals in the eighties and he couldn't stand them and he can't stand them now That's passionate jared.That's remembering how you won in the past and how you lost. That's a fan.Not a ho hum attitude whatever happens life goes on. Being a fan stirs up emotions good or bad. If you can't grasp that then I don't know what to tell you.

Jared
08-27-2003, 07:47 PM
There's a misconseption here. I never said that I thought speaking in the first person was silly, I never said it irks me, I never said that passion is not a good thing.

So for the record, I am not somehow inferring that this behavior is silly or beneath me or improper.

I just thought that when someone doesn't understand something, its ok to ask questions, because that's how they learn.

I am sorry that asking a simple question makes me a fair-weather fan. I was just trying to take a kind of opinion poll, to understand my fellow fans better. That whole 'walk a mile in a man's shoes' bit.

Also, I have been following the Lakers since my dad (a basketball coach) sat me down to watch the finals with him (81, maybe 83, I don't remember what year) and said "now you wtch that #32 in the purple, he's gonna be the greatest of all time" Now how many little kids don;t think that their dad is the strongest, bravest, smartest man in the whole world. Would I have been a Lakers fan otherwise? I don't know. All I know is used ot get grounded for staying uo late and trying to watch late games on TNT from the west coast.

And I don't hate the Celtics or the Sixers. In order to hate something, you must first give it some thought. I don't even think about those college teams! :-)

I think understand a little bit better now. Its all a matter of whether you wear your heart on your sleeve. I admit, I am a bit of a reserved guy, but just because I don't behave the same way you do, doesn't mean that I am less of a fan.

I thought I would get some credit for at least TRYINg to understand another person, instead of thinking that my way is better or something.

Jared
08-28-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
I'm sorry to say that i agree with you that you have no grasp at all of being a fan.

EDIT

Being a fan stirs up emotions good or bad. If you can't grasp that then I don't know what to tell you.




First of all, I never said "I have no grasp of being a fan" Read my posts, you'll never see that. What I said was, that I want to try and understand this behavior that I myself don't partake in. Since it isn't something I do, of course I don't understand it. I was simply asking a question, an opinion. I do not believe that I was stating or implying that my way is better. If you inferred that, then I apologize for not being more clear.

Secondly, not all fans have their emotions stirred. For better or for worse, I am who I am, and I am pretty even keel, non-emotional guy. I am not going to go psychoanalyze myself, because I feel I am a normal, function person. My wife obviously likes me the way I am, and I am happy with who I am. I take great pleasure in watching the Broncos play, and I enjoy when they win, and it sucks when they lose, but just because I do not have the same emotion level reaction as you, doesn't mean that somehow you are a better fan. My brain works the way it works, yours works the way it works. I don't know why, but people are just different. Some people cry at sad movies or funerals, others don't. Is one way better? Some people get really excited or happy when their favorite sports teams win, others think its cool, great, but aren't necessarily jumping for joy. Is one way better?

It is this difference I was trying to maybe get some opinions on, to see what other people thought about this subject. There is no right or wrong here, I am sorry that just asking this question offends you in some way.


And finally, not all fans own team memorabilia. In PA, it was hard to find Broncos stuff, and in general, I don't wear sports oreiented stuff. In Cali, its probably easier to find, but I haven't had a chance to look. I don't have enough extra discretionary income to justify such a purchase, anyway. And I have no real place to wear them.

Jared
08-28-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
There also fans who follow teams because of one player which I believe that's the category you fall into which I guess your lucky Elway didn't get traded or you wouldn't be on this site.


EDIT

I don't understand when people question other peoples way of following their team. Jared you ask this question looking for a logical answer. there is none.


EDIT


We live and die with our teams and if you can't understand that then you have never watched a bronco game with other bronco fans in the room.


Ok, wow. Lots of stuff here.

1) I never said I was just a fan of Elway's But, (my father played a big role in everything it seems) my dad is a Yankee fan and when I was young he always seemed to hate the Broncos. I asked him why, and he said that the Broncos stole away the best pitching prospect the Yankees and in years. SO I started watching football with my dad. I thought ELway was great. Running around, making things happen. He just seemed so much more exciting. I didn't really understand the game then, so he made it seem less boring to a 9 year old boy. I then began to root for the Broncos in earnest. If Elways had been traded, I would have hated that. But I would have still rooted for the Broncos. So I would still be on this site.

2) I wasn't questioning the how you root, I was asking why. I wasn't looking for logical answers. I just seek to understand different personality types, that's all. You're right. Its completely illogical to wear a big foam cheese shaped thing on your head. Do it in sub freezing weather is even more so. I was trying to get a better picture of what drives people to do this, logical or not. And I certainly am not disparaging people who do this. Just curious.

3) Yes, I have watched games with other Broncos fans in the room, and that is part of what drives me to ask this question in the first place. They are all giving each other high fives when good things happen, and stuff, which is cool, but I wondered, why is that not my first reaction? What's going on here that I am missing? I don't live and die with my teams, so I wondered what it was like in the heads of fans who do? I am just trying to get an idea of another person's point of view. Is that wrong?

If you want to jump down my throat for asking a simple question, I guess I won't ask. But please don't make assumptions about me that simply aren't true, and that you would have no way of knowing about me. I haven't done that to anyone else here, and all I ask if for some coomon courtesy, whether you agree with me or not.

noregap
08-28-2003, 02:49 PM
Jarrad.....hey, man.....GREAT QUESTION!
Let me try an answer for you.
1. I am a born and bred Colorado Native. (Living in Missouri)
2. NFL Football IS America's favorite sport ever since the basball players strike lost a lot of respect and fan support.
3. For ALL NFL Fans (true fans who stick with their team win or lose) "our" team represents our city, our state, our region, our whatever. Not just becuse we buy tickets and jerserys, and stuff, and root for our team do we feel like we are part of the team.
4. Some of us, as silly as it may be, live vicariously through the players on the field.
5. We do believe we make a difference in terms of our team getting fired-up, making big plays, even if only once a year we can make enough noise to throw off the other team and cause a penalty.
All of that goes into making us feel like we ARE part of the team. True we don't run, block, tackle, throw, or coach our team. But its kinda like a family. We love our Broncos and we WANT to be a part of the team and feel that we are through our loyalty and support. So.........bottom line........it is a "WE" thing and and "OUR" team, and its all about "US" vs "THEM."
Thanks again for a great question and don't stop asking them!!!!
GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jared
08-28-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by noregap
Jarrad.....hey, man.....GREAT QUESTION!
Let me try an answer for you.
1. I am a born and bred Colorado Native. (Living in Missouri)
2. NFL Football IS America's favorite sport ever since the basball players strike lost a lot of respect and fan support.
3. For ALL NFL Fans (true fans who stick with their team win or lose) "our" team represents our city, our state, our region, our whatever. Not just becuse we buy tickets and jerserys, and stuff, and root for our team do we feel like we are part of the team.
4. Some of us, as silly as it may be, live vicariously through the players on the field.
5. We do believe we make a difference in terms of our team getting fired-up, making big plays, even if only once a year we can make enough noise to throw off the other team and cause a penalty.
All of that goes into making us feel like we ARE part of the team. True we don't run, block, tackle, throw, or coach our team. But its kinda like a family. We love our Broncos and we WANT to be a part of the team and feel that we are through our loyalty and support. So.........bottom line........it is a "WE" thing and and "OUR" team, and its all about "US" vs "THEM."
Thanks again for a great question and don't stop asking them!!!!
GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Holy Cow! the light bulb just went on. I get. I see. The living vicariously thing. That makes sense. If you feel that way, then OF COURSE you will be upset and take things personal when the team loses. I wonder if that's how I feel if I had grown up rooting for the Eagles, being from SE PA and all. Maybe that whole growing up rooting for the natural geographic team thing is what I am missing here. I thinkI got it.

great answer. I am glad someone thinks it was question worth answering.

Mount-n-Groan
08-28-2003, 04:11 PM
This is a great topic. I've always taken notice when someone uses us/we/our etc. when discussing "their" team. I believe it is an indicator of a fan's true colors. I remember going through Aardwolf's posts looking for those references when someone started a thread questioning whether or not he was a real fan. I'm not saying that you're not a fan if you don't use those self-inclusive terms; but if you do.... then odds are you're pretty loyal.

It runs deep. I don't always use them and I do catch myself using they/their more when things aren't going well. I think people have really explained this well in this thread. Yes, a lot of it's the "root for the hometown" thing even though I'm from the Western Slope, 250+ miles from Denver. To me, the Broncos are not just Denver's; they're Colorado's - and some would argue that it goes well beyond there geographically and say that the Broncos are the Rocky Mountain Region's team. I believe that this phenomena is closely related to the concept of patriotism. Being proud of where you're from; whether it's a city, country, region, or a neighborhood goes hand-in-hand here. It's important, to me anyways.

Talk about living vicariously.... When we win I'm happy for that whole week. When they, I mean... when WE lose, I'm irritable, tired, and unsatisfiable. I watch games alone. If somebody is there with me and starts to have doubts or dogs the team during a dire time it brings me down and I'm afraid it will somehow diffuse through space & time eventually having an adverse effect on the team's performance. It's crazy, I know.... but that's nothing. During the '97-'98 season I watched every game with my guitar in hand. I started to notice that what I was playing during the game seemed to fit how the Broncos were performing. I had to play heavier stuff when they were on defense and more smooth and flowing tunes when they were on offense. Sometimes it was flipped around, but once I found the groove I was convinced that it really was working. (and no, I was not on drugs). I had the thought, I tested it, it worked, so I kept on doing it all season.... and look what happened. Is this dillusional? Maybe. Do I really think that that's why they had an awesome year that season? No, not now, but if you would've asked me then....

I've been a Broncos fan longer than any Bronco was or has been a Bronco and I would imagine that I'm not alone here... Is it "my" team? Hell, yes it's my team!!!

Let's roll....

Go Broncos!!!

Jared
08-28-2003, 08:04 PM
I am getting the feeling that the thing I do not have is that whole representing a region thing. My natural affection should be for the Philadelphia teams, except I hate them all (well, I rooted for the Flyers in the Stanley Cup a couple of years ago, only because Detroit winning all the time is getting old. Given the choice, I chose the lesser of two evils!).

The teams I root for, (Broncos, Lakers, Mets, Flames) I have no feeling of representation, so therefore, I am not as miffed at losses. So maybe this will never change. I am not saying that this makes me a worse or fair-weather fan, but its not the same as those of you who grew up in Colorado (indeed, until 1988, I would imagine they had the whole Mountain Time Zone as fans).

Your points are the kind of answers I was looking for. I think I understand why some people are more passionate than others.
Although considering that two of the teams I root for suck right now, I guess perhaps I am more passionate or loyal than I thought.

Bronco Yoda
08-28-2003, 08:42 PM
I'm the 12th man so I guess that's my excuse. :)

TXBRONC
08-28-2003, 08:47 PM
Jared, so far you have taken up the majority of this thread and although you say the light has gone on you still don't get it. Brooklyn pointed out to you that Broncos fans took alot of crap about all those Superbowl blowout and so we have learn to stick together. You say you are from the Philadelphia area even so, how many teams within a few hundred miles of you could you root for? Steelers, Giants, Jets, Bills, and Patriots. I grew up in Wyoming the Broncos are the only professional team in the entire area. Thats not to say that there are not loyal fans in other parts of the country, but this team is special most who have lived in the Mountain West, because no other team is close enough. Elway himself understood that when the Broncos won the SB fans in the surrounding states felt that they were apart it because of there longsuffering.

If calling the Broncos my team is illogical to you then maybe you don't understand why teams play for homfield advantage in playoffs. Fans can be the difference and players respond to that energy the fans give them. Besides all sports organization want the community inwhich their resides to be embraced by the fans. Why? Becasue if the fan believes they have a stake in the team they will support that team. Bronco fans not unlike nany other team believe they have a stake in this franchise and they do because they support them threw thick and thin.

Jared
08-29-2003, 08:51 AM
Right, Like I said, I get it. I understand now. Really, you can believe me. I promise. The difference is that you are nearer geographically to them, just like you said.

And yes, I took crap after the super bowl blowouts (well, not so much after the 49ers, since I was on the east coast), especially after Washington and NY. I know how that feels.

Your answers have all been very insightful. Really.

TXBRONC
08-29-2003, 01:51 PM
If you say you get it then alright. Let's just get ready for the season and enjoy the team we root for. Look forward to talking with you in other threads.

wesuckrealbad
01-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the headsup on this post Jared!

I have to disagree with your resolution though... I live 20 minutes away from Arrowhead, but I do not consider myself a Chief. I am a fan of the Chiefs, actually, a HUGE fan of the Chiefs.

Also, I think when people say 'my team', I believe it is short for 'my favorite team' or more like 'the team I support'. But there is no excuse for people saying, "we kicked your butts".

The short answer that I give myself is that people like to be associated with winners. It makes people feel better about themselves when their team does well. And when their team loses, that is when you start hearing people refer to their team as 'them' instead of 'we' or 'us'.

Even though I refer to the Chiefs as 'the Chiefs' and not 'we', I still feel great when they win. But that doesn't stop me from realizing my position on the team... When the Chiefs handed out AFC West Champion hats this season, I was asked to pay for mine...

pikman
01-08-2004, 01:04 PM
I call them my team and use the terms "us" and "we" because as a small child I was orphaned in the cold prairies of Southern Alberta. A herd of wild Broncos took me in and raised me as if I was one of their own. I have never forgotten the kindness shown me by that gang of wild horses, and forever i will love the Broncos.

COOLTOOL
01-08-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Jared
I personally have nothing to do with the team winning or losing, nor do they take my advice on personnel or salary cap issues. So why do some of you feel as if you are a part of the team?

I absolutely disagree... Here's why... Fans can play a huge role in the performance of a team. Granted... It is the team that has to go out and play on Sunday or Monday etc.... But, when your team steps onto the field and hears those thousands of screaming fans... That motivates the h*ll out of them.

...Why do you think you feel good when your team wins or bad when your team loses? It's because it effects you just as if you were part of the team.

kickersarecool
01-08-2004, 01:22 PM
I like to think all broncos fans (real not fair weather) play a part in the team.
A) As others have said we buy the gear that supports the franchise.
B) If all Broncos fans thought i'm not needed by the team and none turned up to see games at mile high then i think an empty stadium apart from all the away fans may cause the teams morale to be shredded.
For this reason i say i and all broncos fans are apart of the broncos FRANCHISE.
Also theres been a lot of talk about fair weather fans etc. Just because people aren't here when the team loses etc or they haven't got 100+ posts doesn't meen they aren't a real fan. I will use myself as an example. No body on this forum will remember me and i will never get voted best poster etc. I dont post a lot because i only post replies to stuff i can where i can support my answers etc. I also think i'm ignored because of my out of the ordinary username. Anyway if i don't stop now i never will i've said my peace!!

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Jared
I didn't know where else to post this, and I think the answers will be too varied for a poll, so here goes.

When speaking of the Broncos, or any other team that you follow, why do some of you use the the terms "we" and "our" instead of "they" and "their", if you are not an official part of the organization? I have always found this strange. I am not making fun of it, but I just don't understand it. I personally have nothing to do with the team winning or losing, nor do they take my advice on personnel or salary cap issues. So why do some of you feel as if you are a part of the team? I became a Broncos fan because I was very interested in the career of Elway, and even though he is gone, I still root for the Broncos. Yet I don't feel as if I am part of the team. I am just a very biased observer! :-)

So I am just looking for some answers to this. I have been reading a lot of posts today about how "our" defense hasn't improved, and "we" won't get to the playoffs if "we" play like "we" did on Monday night against the Colts. I didn't play anything against anyone last night, I was making a late dinner and cleaning house (no cable, couldn't watch game, unfortunately). So therefore, I don't think that 'I' had anything to do with last night.

So I am just curious about your thoughts on this, as to why you feel as if you are a member of the team. No disrespecting, just fascinated by this notion that I don't grasp at all. I think its kinda like high school. If i was a student at Denver High, and Denver High plays Aurora High, then its kind of a battle between schools rather than just the team. Even though i wasnt on the team, i would feel like the team is representing me as well as the team itself. Same way with NFL teams. Denver represents the city/state that i live in (or used to). So i feel like i am a part.

orangenblue420
01-08-2004, 01:33 PM
It's funny that this thread was brought back up (my GM asked me the same question on Sunday when I got to work and told her I had butterflies in my stomach and I wasnt sure how WE were going to play that day).

I didnt take the time to read all the posts, some were way to long, but first let me say this.....

A fairweather fan is one who likes a team then doesnt, then likes em then doesnt. Fairweatherdness, if you will, does not apply to the level a person takes their fandom. I, along with many others, probably go over the top. I consider myself not a fan but a fanatic. People ask me all the time, why I say "we" when talking about my teams. To me its habit more than anything. I feel I am a part of the team and they are a part of me. I happen to be an emotionally charged person and when it comes to something I truly believe in, I will fight tooth n nail for it, whether it be at the stadium cheering my team, at the bar watching them or standing up for something I believe in. If the issue at hand touches off the "something" that gets me going, its on!!!! :fight:

I believe it boils down to personalities, some of us our more outspoken, loud and obnoxious, others are mellow and laid back, etc. etc.

But my major point here is I dont think the WAY you express your passion for your team has anything to do with your loyalty and love for your team. As long as you stick with that team, quietly or loudly, you are a true fan.....and that you are Jared, a TRUE fan!

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 01:38 PM
Its just a habit. I barely even notice untl i see threads like these LOL

wesuckrealbad
01-08-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by COOLTOOL
I absolutely disagree... Here's why... Fans can play a huge role in the performance of a team. Granted... It is the team that has to go out and play on Sunday or Monday etc.... But, when your team steps onto the field and hears those thousands of screaming fans... That motivates the h*ll out of them.

...Why do you think you feel good when your team wins or bad when your team loses? It's because it effects you just as if you were part of the team.

The fans can make a difference in the game, but that still doesn't make you part of the team. Look at individual sports. A Tiger Woods fan can go to the course and cheer him on for 4 days straight. On monday morning, that same fan doesn't go around saying "we took it to Ernie Ells!".

And yes, I am affected by the outcome of the game, but like I said before, that doesn't qulify me to be associated with the team. I don't believe any of you Bronco fans have your own SB rings.

Look, I'm not questioning fandom or anything to that effect. I simply take offense to the statement "we kicked your butt!". Who is we, and how exactly did you kick my butt. The statement doesn't make any sense.

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 03:54 PM
its not the broncos vs the chiefs, its bigger than that. its denver vs kansas city or colorado vs missouri/kansas and you are a part of the city if you claim the team. thats how i feel anyway.

THE SHIELD
01-08-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Jared
Ok, fair enough, but what about someone like me who hasn't been to Denver and hasn't seen the Broncos play? some of them still use the 1st person terms.

Good answer though, the outlet part. I still don't understand the feeling of belonging part. I buy stuff at JCPenney, doesn't make me feel like I am a part of the company.

If you wear their underwear, you're still advertising!

ReasonableChief
01-08-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by dhall26
If you wear their underwear, you're still advertising!

No offense, but that's some advertising I really don't want to see.

wesuckrealbad
01-08-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by kickersarecool
I like to think all broncos fans (real not fair weather) play a part in the team.
A) As others have said we buy the gear that supports the franchise.
B) If all Broncos fans thought i'm not needed by the team and none turned up to see games at mile high then i think an empty stadium apart from all the away fans may cause the teams morale to be shredded.
For this reason i say i and all broncos fans are apart of the broncos FRANCHISE.

kickersarecool, I will throw you a bone...
A) The NFL utilizes revenue sharing. So a fraction of everything you spend on Bronco pajamas, Bronco toilet paper, and Bronco tickets, is supporting the league and in turn every other team in the NFL. Your Plumber jersey actually pays Priest Holmes's salary!So this isn't a good reason to use the term 'we', when describing the Broncos and 'them' when talking about everyone else.

B) Any park in North America will have football games going on on nice days, without a single person watching. The only thing the Broncos need from you is your money.

Again, none of the fans:
are in the locker room after the game
wear a Bronco SB ring
are responsible for why the O only scored 10 points
are responsible for why the D gave up 41 points
make travel arangements for the team
kick the butts of other team's fans. (unless you live in Philadelphia or Oakland)

pikman
01-08-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
its not the broncos vs the chiefs, its bigger than that. its denver vs kansas city or colorado vs missouri/kansas and you are a part of the city if you claim the team. thats how i feel anyway.

Well Calgary is a lot like Denver, and Pat Bowlen is from these parts, matter of fact one of the kids my son hangs out with his grandfather is/was on the board of directors. I know it ticked me off when I saw his dad's closet and it was full of Bronco apparel, dude wouldn't even give me a pair of shorts.

Goxxx
01-08-2004, 04:09 PM
Couple of things from my perspective that might help you out Jared. I was exchange student in the states 12 years ago and I turned on the TV one day and there was a game between Denver and Raiders (LA at the time). I started to watch the game and started to cheer for the guys that were led by No 7 . I didn't even know the rules. All I knew that they were (as speaker said biggest SB losers). But watching that game and the following games brought Broncos close to my heart. It has nothing to do with money, distance, location I would simply put "Love for the team". Maybe you show it with being on this board, or watching the games, thrash talk to Raiders and Chiefs fans, or even fight with other fans. Here in Europe, even though soccer is much less violent sport, some people are very passionate and violent but it is their individual feeling (I am not, for start). Depends how you show it.

One interesting thing - since they are broadcasting NFL live for three years and football is very popular in Serbia I have seen on our NFL forum same question but in reversed order. Why NFL fans reffer to the team as "they" and not as "we". Not all of NFL fans, as you can see on this board. By the way, poll was "Are GB fans alive on stadium". The question came from bunch of guys who are rooting for GB, not understading the way that fans accepted Arizona victory. So, you have GB fans in here who have never probably seen NFL game except for the past three years or have been to one and still they love GB probably more than some "bad weather fan".

It could start out with the location, logo, specific player but once it happens the feeling doesn't change. I bought a sattelite couple of years ago and I am trying to follow every game since either trough satellite or trough internet. I was in Denver for only one play-off game vs Houston Oilers in 1992/93 and when Denver plays next SB (hope soon) I will be there and WE will win again . As you see I don't have any specific reason why I like them. There shouldn't be any.
;)

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
its not the broncos vs the chiefs, its bigger than that. its denver vs kansas city or colorado vs missouri/kansas and you are a part of the city if you claim the team. thats how i feel anyway. i hope this explains it for me, but i have a question of my own. how can a person like a team from a city where they have never lived or (other than the team itself) have absolutely no love for that area. I know some say they watched john elway and became a fan, but i loved to watch Ken Griffey Jr. play baseball, but i never cheered for the mariners/reds. its kind of the same question, in reverse if that makes sense.

wesuckrealbad
01-08-2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
its not the broncos vs the chiefs, its bigger than that. its denver vs kansas city or colorado vs missouri/kansas and you are a part of the city if you claim the team. thats how i feel anyway.

That isn't right either. LOTS of people on this board don't live in Denver, but I wouldn't question their faith.

Also, I happen to like CO... it is my birth state, 303 native, but I can't stand the old Mile High, and the sight of most of the Denver players make me want to wretch.

Also, people that live in cities with NFL teams will pay taxes that support the stadiums and what not, but that doesn't mean every person in the city a fan of the team, let alone football. Lots of taxpayers would rather have their money go to a museum rather than the crappy Broncos. :D Sorry, just have to slam once and a while.

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by cheapseats
That isn't right either. LOTS of people on this board don't live in Denver, but I wouldn't question their faith.

Also, I happen to like CO... it is my birth state, 303 native, but I can't stand the old Mile High, and the sight of most of the Denver players make me want to wretch.

Also, people that live in cities with NFL teams will pay taxes that support the stadiums and what not, but that doesn't mean every person in the city a fan of the team, let alone football. Lots of taxpayers would rather have their money go to a museum rather than the crappy Broncos. :D Sorry, just have to slam once and a while. i dont live in denver right now but i still feel that they represent me. i guess there is no better answer. we family. do you feel like the stadium is part of the team? the stadium is for us fans. its just a choice we make to belong with them.

broncos_chick
01-08-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Jared
I didn't know where else to post this, and I think the answers will be too varied for a poll, so here goes.

When speaking of the Broncos, or any other team that you follow, why do some of you use the the terms "we" and "our" instead of "they" and "their", if you are not an official part of the organization?

Haven't had time to read all the replies, so this one may have been said a while back in the thread: It's probably the same reason we say "we" and "our" when referring to any given U.S. military victory. It's a primal, tribal type of thing.

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 05:05 PM
Final answer......................see avatar

NOLABroncofan
01-08-2004, 05:57 PM
<shrug> Guess I use "we" on occasion 'cause it's my small way of identifying with the Broncos. Lord knows I woulda never made the team even in my youth.... but one can fantasize. I figure I've been following them for long enough now that I can consider them some type of "family". Not sure if that answers your question, but that's my reasoning.

Nuff said...

broncos_chick
01-08-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
Actually, I say "we" and "our" in that case because I was IN that particular organization, and I EARNED my loyalty to it.

True, true! No argument from this little Chick. And coming from a military family myself, I understand you perfectly and am in agreement. Yet there are also a lot of people out there who were either too young/old to join, or whose health didn't permit, etc., who didn't have the first-hand experience, but who still get this fierce surge of primal pride when they see the might of our military and hear about its exploits. It may seem a stretch to relate Broncos pride to military pride, but it's the first correlation that came to my mind. :)

Return of Lava
01-08-2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
Oh, and I forgot...I say "we" about the Broncos as a matter of foresight.

I WILL be the Offensive Coordinator. :) yeah and i feel i have a SERIOUS shot at becoming a scout.

orang/blu in LA
01-08-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by broncos_chick
True, true! No argument from this little Chick. And coming from a military family myself, I understand you perfectly and am in agreement. Yet there are also a lot of people out there who were either too young/old to join, or whose health didn't permit, etc., who didn't have the first-hand experience, but who still get this fierce surge of primal pride when they see the might of our military and hear about its exploits. It may seem a stretch to relate Broncos pride to military pride, but it's the first correlation that came to my mind. :)

I agree with you too - and about the primal/tribal thing. it's nice to be a part of a group - and by that i don't just mean by being a player. we're all part of a group, we're on the same side, we believe in the same thing. i, too, say "i hope we win" or (this past week) "we got killed on Sunday." OF COURSE i wasn't out there, but my group was.

As far as geography goes, and having a team be related to where you're from or where you live, yeah, that helps. i've asked a lot of people in LA (non raider fans) why they don't watch football, and one reason is they don't have a team they care about. but then again, you obviously don't have to be BORN to a team, so to speak. a lot of it is also based on experiences - like jared's times with his dad. it's just finding a door to open, waking through, then sticking around.

mattos
01-08-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Jared
When speaking of the Broncos, or any other team that you follow, why do some of you use the the terms "we" and "our" instead of "they" and "their", if you are not an official part of the organization?

being a fan makes you part of the larger informal organization, that is everyone who supports the broncos in some way. i say "we" and "our" because the broncos are my team and i'm part of the group of people who support the team (fan support is more important here than $ IMO). wording it that way just reflects a sense of closeness to the team.

Jared
01-09-2004, 11:49 PM
???

How on earth did this thread get dredged up from back in August?

ahhhhhhhhhhh...my pre-mod days.

The question about rooting for a team not from where you are is a good one though.

There are huge geographical areas of teh US that are nowhere near an NFL city. If a person from that city (lets pick one...I dunno.......Bismarck, ND) decides to like a team for whatever reason, he or she doesn't necessarily feel that hey represent thier area, because they have no team to do so. Yet because of my location, I was expected to. So many people ask me "Why don't you root for the Eagles/Giants/Redskins/Jets/Ravens/Steelers?" My response is always the same. "There is no rule that says I must root for the team closest to my hometown or current location" I am not from Philadelphia.....close, but not quite. I was just as far from NYC as I was Philly.....and Binghamton, NY for that matter. So, why identify with a city just because it is close? When I first started watching football with my dad, I had no real feel for the rules and the startegy. All I knew was that compared to the QB's I saw the most of, (Theismann, Simms, Malone, O'Brien, and Jaworski), John Elway was the most fun for a ten year old kid to watch. He ran around like we did when we played over at the local public middle school. It was awesome. So I just sort of fell into being a fan...maybe it was his style.....maybe it was the colors...all I know is that I was by far considered the weirdest kid on my block. Especially when the Broncos were good, so suddenly I got accused of liking them because they were good, not because I was from Denver or anything. Most of that went away when I still said I liked the Broncos after that 5-11 season back in high school. So I guess, there is no one answer as to why people like a team that is not from near them. For me it was Elway first...but obviously, I became a fan of the franchise, since I watched other player's careers as well. And i am still here, long after Elway has called it quits. That is my answer at least.

I am just still surprised that this thread came back from DEEP in the vault............ its interesting to see people quoting what I typed in August and responding in the present tense.

wesuckrealbad
01-10-2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Jared
I am just still surprised that this thread came back from DEEP in the vault............ its interesting to see people quoting what I typed in August and responding in the present tense.

Sorry to dig this one back up Jared, but I was interrested in the discussion after you mentioned it in the smack forum.

I actually feel like I am giving my team respect when I don't try to ride their successes by including myself when talking about them. "We're #1" is crap.

I take pride in my real life where I make an actual impact. I don't feel the need to share in the Chiefs success, but I sure do enjoy celebrating their success!

Another point, rock musicians love when a crowd comes out and is cheering and going crazy for the band. It really pumps up the band and will allow them to put their heart out up there on the stage. The fans then buy the t-shirts, bumper stickers, posters, and cd's and such. Much like what goes on in an NFL stadium. But after the rock concert, you don't hear the fans saying, "we freaking rocked tonight".

Return of Lava
01-10-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by tahuya man
We as fans don't pay the players salaries, the teams do. The money generated by TV contracts is where most, if not all of the salary money comes from.
Money collected from ticket sales just keeps the venue operating. Ticket sales alone don't even cover the cost of stadium operating expenses. The amount of money needed to open and operate a stadium is unbelievable.

I have also wondered why people refer to the local team as "We". I guess it's because a lot of people look at their local teams as their source of self esteem. When their local team is weak, they have less pride in themselvs and their community. another example of nit picking, contradiction, and negativity from "I know more than you and i'll show it in every post" tahuya

orang/blu in LA
01-10-2004, 12:25 PM
sorry - my computer posted twice, i'm erasing this one...

orang/blu in LA
01-10-2004, 12:27 PM
The geography/teams near you issue is interesting to me too. i used to live in colorado, so that's where i was "introduced" to the broncos - yet in a way, i became even more of a die hard fan when i was removed from the "hub" - so to speak. (this was just my experience, please understand, i'm not saying that i had it harder than fans who still lived in colorado, not at all.) But when i moved, i was all of a sudden faced with adversity, surrounded by silver and black, and challenged constantly to why i would like this team. let me tell you, it just reinforced why i liked the broncos. and i had to pay more attention to not only my team, but other teams - which, as a young girl, i had never been forced to do (i didn't have many girl friends who were talking football or watching the games). I had to do this, for one, so i could fend off obnoxious raider fans, so i could defend this team i loved. Partly b/c i lived in colorado, and partly b/c i had so many wonderful experiences and memories tied in with the broncos, i related to them - not to any other teams out here. maybe, for me, that's when i started saying "we", though i can't remember for sure. all i know is it felt like US (the broncos, and the broncos fans) against the others. and finding this website, as well, was another way of my seeking out a community, another form of "we."

i don't say "we" b/c i feel like i pay their salaries, or buy their merchandise, or anything like that. i say it b/c somewhere along the line i became a part of a community, a group. and it IS easier to feel that when the team you like is from your local area, but lord knows it's not necessary. Like i said before, it's just a way of picking a door to open and enter - whether you do that by choosing the team closest to you, or choosing one b/c of certain players. oh, and yes, you can feel part of the community without saying "we" - it's just different approaches i guess. sorry, that was long....

ReasonableChief
01-10-2004, 12:57 PM
Other than my silly superstitions, I've never felt that I had an impact on whether my teams win or lose. But I've always referred to them as we when talking about them.

Obviously, I'd never thought the question of why I say "we" through. So this is an interesting discussion. I think it's a matter of pride, though, that makes one attach so much to a team.

I can like other teams besides my big four (Chiefs, KC Royals, KU Jayhawks and Sacramento Kings) but I do not emotionally invest in them. Last week, for example, I wanted Denver to beat Indianapolis but I wasn't emotionally attached to the game. I watched it, enjoyed watching the game as I do most games, but didn't have any lingering mood swings.

Obviously, I root against Denver throughout the season, but only to the point it is advantageous for the Chiefs when the Broncos lose.

As I've gotten older (I'm 40 now), the emotional impact of the Chiefs losing is far less than it used to be. It's still upsetting, but once I realized there was no major impact on my life one way or the other, losses became a bit easier to digest.

Still, the Chiefs will always be a "we" to me; I could never say "we" about any other NFL team and mean it. I can like other teams with no lingering effects.

I think a fan who says "we" and means it couldn't change even if they wanted to. Bandwagoners can say "we" about whoever happens to be winning that day or season and kind of mean it but their loyalties lie only with winning teams ... as in, "I'm a fan of whoever is a winner and don't want to be associated with a loser."

My high school and college teams are and always will be "we" to me with the realization that not being a participant currently means I have no say in the matter.

I'd be curious to know how a guy like John Elway refers to the Broncos .... is it a we thing or is it the Broncos? Unless he's got an ownership stake (I don't know) or works as a consultant, he would have no impact on current games.

Return of Lava
01-10-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by tahuya man
If you don't have anything to add to the issue other than childish drivel, don't respond. Do you just want an arguement? Go to the smack forum and I'll give you what you want tinkerbell. i was just pointing out the fact that you never agree with any of us. and why do you insist on calling me childish when you are the one screaming for attention by going against the grain of the discussion ALL the time. look at your post archive, all you do is wait for somebody to make an incomplete statement so you can correct it, or wait for somebody to have a different opinion so you can bring to everybody's attention that you THINK you know more.

wesuckrealbad
01-10-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by ReasonableChief
I'd be curious to know how a guy like John Elway refers to the Broncos .... is it a we thing or is it the Broncos? Unless he's got an ownership stake (I don't know) or works as a consultant, he would have no impact on current games.

Since I startetd thinking about this sort of thing, I never really had a problem with an ex player saying we when talking about his old team.

But then again, I can't see Elway standing in the locker room after a win talking to the team about "we really kicked butt" today. Everybody would be thinking, "you kicked butt?" And think about a fan trying to use 'we' in the locker room after a game.... it's not really going to work.

Return of Lava
01-10-2004, 03:03 PM
i say we cause i dont consider myself as a separate piece. its not a question whether i realisticly am a part, its whether i BELIEVE i am a part. and i do believe.

DocŪ
01-10-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by REDHEAT
We as fans pay their salary's, so we are a part of their success..

This is a very true statement.........We are VERY much responsible for the success of the Broncos in a few different ways.

For those who are season ticket holders and go to every home game, get loud and offer support that fires up the players and the reason why the Mile High City has been a tough place for opponents to win............thats why we are the 12th man.

If there wasn't fans filling the stadium for every home game then we wouldn't be seeing big name or high profile players in a Bronco uniform.......look no further than the Raiders, they are usually blacked out in the Oakland area because they cant even sell out their games.........pretty sad considering they always talk about how tight Raider Nation is.

wesuckrealbad
01-10-2004, 04:06 PM
Look, saying 'we' is simply a way to identify yourself with your favorite team. (there is some interesting sports psychology/personal worth stuff going on here, but that isn't really my main point of discussion)

The problem I have is when fans of one team start thinking they are better than fans from another team simply because they accidently root for a different team.

When someone says "we kicked your butt", it takes on a personal attack type of feel.

Return of Lava
01-11-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by tahuya man
I guess that you think that your opinion is the supreme word? Usually when someone like you starts a sentence with..."just pointing out the fact"...something stupid follows. I've had some very good discussions with others where we can disagree about something in a grown up manner.

You however, are just a little twit who sounds like a little boy who didn't get enough attention from his Daddy. I know that you probably feel a little insecure as an adult living with your parents, but someday you'll be on your own making your own way. Try not to be so hard on yourself, many young men today live with their parents. It can be a tough world out there if you don't have the skills to compete. It takes a little maturity to make your mark in the world. Your day will come, don't worry. you HAVE to be Aardwolf. Is this your alternate identity? I figured you out. IF you are an adult yourself, you're obviously not a very happy one. How can you let a teenager get to you like that? You sound very frustrated and confused in your post. when somebody says "usually when someone like you starts a sentence with" ......something stereotypical follows. someone like me? its sad that an adult who is "financially secure, lives in a floating home, and has a beautiful wife" still has to resort to silly insults. I'm a "twit"? LOL, you should really try to think up a better word than that next time. That was pathetic.

rcsodak
01-11-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
you HAVE to be Aardwolf. Is this your alternate identity? I figured you out. IF you are an adult yourself, you're obviously not a very happy one. How can you let a teenager get to you like that? You sound very frustrated and confused in your post. when somebody says "usually when someone like you starts a sentence with" ......something stereotypical follows. someone like me? its sad that an adult who is "financially secure, lives in a floating home, and has a beautiful wife" still has to resort to silly insults. I'm a "twit"? LOL, you should really try to think up a better word than that next time. That was pathetic.


"Financially secure" = he doesn't need no money cuz he can eat catfish from dusk til dawn
"lives in a floating home" = see above...them there party barges are the *****
"and has a beautiful wife" = in the bayou country, they's all purty

Java, ya gotta give ol' Latoya a break; he wanted to be somebody else, but the WPP wouldn't listen.

Jared
01-11-2004, 11:23 AM
Again, take your smack to the appropriate forum or private messaging. You are no longer contributing the point of this particular thread, but simply arguing with each other. That is why we have the proper place for it. :)

jbones733
01-11-2004, 11:30 AM
I am a bronco fan who lives in NYC, it just came naturally to me, I cll all my teams,. us or we , even when I talk to my friends i refer to their teams as you. eg. to an angels fan id say "wow you got vlad g" like someone said thats whats great about sports u give you 100% devotion & support & u feel like part of the team & family ,