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pikman
01-26-2004, 10:42 AM
Rascals thread on Porn got me thinking of another topic I'd like to see some opinions on. I realize that there is a broad range of ages, backgrounds, and ideals on this board so I assume there should be some interesting opinions.

I have two kids, 5 & 3, we have numerous friends with children of relatively the same age. All of our friends kids call my wife and I by our first names, as my children also speak to our friends this way. I seem to be the only person in our circle who sees this as wrong. I was raised to call "grown ups" Mr. or Mrs. whatever. It was a sign of respect, when answering questions it was yes sir, no sir, etc. This in my opinion afforded the adults the respect they deserve to be shown by children, hell I'm 35 and I still call my parents friends Mr. and Mrs.

My point is that when you look at society today there seems to be an abundance of young people who have no respect for their elders, themselves, or their peers. Respect begins to be taught when you are young and I don't see it being as important in society as it should be, and it will not get any better. I tell my kids to call my friends Mr. and Mrs., but my friends insist the kids call them by their first names. Fighting an uphill battle.

IMHO

orangenblue420
01-26-2004, 11:35 AM
Well pikman, I would post my OPINION about this but since I have no room to talk because I partake in the 420, I would only be opening myself up for a huge amount of criticism and ridicule from "other" people on this site, hence I will keep my OPINION to myself, even though I thought, thats what this board was for........

Although apparantly I must be doing a thing or two right, since my children do use Mr. or Mrs. until they are given permission by the adults to call them something else......

And I do agree with what you are saying, it is scary to see the way children behave these days.....I still dont swear, drink, or do anything like that in front of my parents, and it is out of sheer respect....I know they dont like it, so i dont do it......


OK........I cant wait to see the replies.......uggghhhhh :duh:

pikman
01-26-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Well pikman, I would post my OPINION about this but since I have no room to talk because I partake in the 420, I would only be opening myself up for a huge amount of criticism and ridicule from "other" people on this site, hence I will keep my OPINION to myself, even though I thought, thats what this board was for........



OB i've yet to really voice my opinion on the "other" topic, but here's what I have to say to you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in said plant. As far as i am concerned I'd rather someone do that than get boozed up and get behind the wheel. I will not judge you, it's not my place.

orang/blu in LA
01-26-2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by pikman
OB i've yet to really voice my opinion on the "other" topic, but here's what I have to say to you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in said plant. As far as i am concerned I'd rather someone do that than get boozed up and get behind the wheel. I will not judge you, it's not my place.

That's exactly how i feel too. and, if i ever have kids, i think that i'd rather them go to a friend's house whose mother may partake in a certain plant in another room rather than a friend's house whose mother is chainsmoking right alongside them.

As far as the respect thing goes - until i was 10 years old i went to a rather hippy-like private school where we called our teachers and even principal by their first names. so at the time, we did the same with our friends' parents and it was just normal. once i changed schools, i heard other kids use "Mrs" and "Mr" and so i did the same. what always blew my mind though were other aspects of manners - such as friends coming over to my house and immediately going through the fridge as i stood there in shock... My mother would have lectured me endlessly if she ever saw me do that at someone else's house.

pikman
01-26-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by orang/blu in LA
what always blew my mind though were other aspects of manners - such as friends coming over to my house and immediately going through the fridge as i stood there in shock... My mother would have lectured me endlessly if she ever saw me do that at someone else's house.

Thats what I'm talking about, no manners, what happened to please and thank you, asking permission, etc. Maybe I am just to old school but I'll tell you what, my kids know their manners. At 5 and 3 it seems easy, I think it's the teenage years that are the hardest, I'll let you know when I get there.

THE SHIELD
01-26-2004, 12:05 PM
I think the reason why kids are so darn messed up, is that there are not enough ass whoopings! Bring back the paddle, and instill the fear back into the kids. What ever happened to the phrase "What did you Say to Me?" and then Pow! "Don't ever tell me No again you little ****!!!!"

pikman
01-26-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by dhall26
I think the reason why kids are so darn messed up, is that there are not enough ass whoopings! Bring back the paddle, and instill the fear back into the kids. What ever happened to the phrase "What did you Say to Me?" and then Pow! "Don't ever tell me No again you little ****!!!!"

Scares me how often we agree these days. One of my favorites is asking my kids, "How would you like a red ass?" You should see the looks I get from other parents when I bring that up. Of course thats a whole different thread. Maybe we could start a "To spank, or not to spank" Poll.

orangenblue420
01-26-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by dhall26
I think the reason why kids are so darn messed up, is that there are not enough ass whoopings! Bring back the paddle, and instill the fear back into the kids. What ever happened to the phrase "What did you Say to Me?" and then Pow! "Don't ever tell me No again you little ****!!!!"

Ohhhh......I cant wait to hear the responses from this one....its a whole new topic.....to spank or not to spank....

I believe in spanking, but not whoopin and there is a certain age when it should stop.....but hell I grew up knowing if I did something wrong, it as "the belt" time.....I only got it one time and it wasnt even my fault, my cousin asked our great grandma for a dollar ( i was just an innocent bystander, i swear) and my dad found out and gave us both the belt......:eek:

Needless to say, I have an aversion, to this day, to asking people for money.....LOL, and its true, my parents still get pissed at me cause I wont ever ask them for $$$$ when I need help, to me its the worst feeling in the world to ask another person for money and for the longest time I couldnt figure out why I would get that awful gut wrenching, stomach churning feeling when I needed to ask to borrow some, but it finally clicked, I truly think I associate asking money with the whole belt incident......

orang/blu in LA
01-26-2004, 12:13 PM
First - Dhall26, you crack me up. :)

Second, i think it has to do with manners and people raising their kids in a way where they actually THINK about others. it seems so simple, but yet there are so many people i know who seem to live in a bubble and who think they are ENTITLED to things. they're the ones who go through someone's fridge, and i guarantee they're not thinking about asking permission or wondering if the person just spent their last twenty bucks on the food they're about to steal...b/c for them, it's all about THEM and no one else. i have one friend who gets invited out to dinner and says how excited she is to order the filet mignon - b/c she knows SOMEONE ELSE is paying for it. That kills me. I don't care how much money someone has, when i get taken out to dinner, i always order something cheaper than what the person paying ordered.

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 12:36 PM
OOO i like this thread

I think it comes down to discipline. In my old school, at lunch the lady will ask you if you want potatoes, if you say yes or yeah, you will be hungry for the rest of the day, you have to say yes ma'am. Also, they padddled you in school if you act up. I dont consider that abuse, i connsider that getting their ass in line. I know kids act up way different than they would at home so i was glad they took the kids and paddled they asses when they tried to get cute with a teacher or show off in front of their friends. one of my pet peeves is bad parenting though, its kinda funny, cause im still a kid. Anyway, when i see a mom saying "billy, go to timeout" after cussin or something bad like that, i get pissed off. I be like "naw take that kid and whoop his ass, let him know there is consequences for bad actions", i know some dont believe in spanking, but i do. I had a LOT when i was a kid, for little stuff like saying "its gonna rain" but it doesnt rain, i got a whoppin cause i lied and said i saw it on the news so i could get out of a family trip. i got a whoopin for makin a club house out of sheets in the living room, kind of liek a tent. i got a whoopin EVERY NIGHT for coming home too late(if the street ligfht is on, i better be inside the house). I never got thatrule down, i was always late and i was always spanked, they never let me slide even though they were honest mistakes cause i always lose track of time, but in the end, it helped me a lot. I blame columbine and stuff like that on bad parenting, i mean seriously, the kid had like a whole warfield ammo station in the family garage but he never let anybody in there or something liek that. I dont know exactly what it was, but i remember shakin my head. whose house was it, the kids? Why didnt the parents get involved and stop that sh*t before it happened? I still get pissed cause all them innocent people got shot and it gave CO bad name. I promise to be a good parent when i have kids.

I'm sorry this post ended up being long.

Nixhex78
01-26-2004, 12:44 PM
Better watch out for those political correctness people. Say your in a supermarket, your kid is acting up and you give them a smack on the rear. Next thing you know you got these *******s calling social services and they show up at your house. These type of people are what's wrong with children these days, IMO. Many parents are afraid to discipline their children in fear of getting in trouble by social services. I see more children talking back to their parents, telling them no, throwing fits over nothing, and just flat out not listening at all. I chop this up to lack of discipline. They have no respect for their authority and they walk all over these types of parents. If a child has no fear of what will happen to them for acting badly they will continue to act badly. Eventually my father didn't even have to whip me. All he had to do was look at me with a mean tone or raise his voice. I knew what was up and changed my behavoir immediately. These same kids who have no respect for your house when they come over are the same kids who get sent to the corner for 5 minutes as punishment. These are all my opinions they are not to be taken as fact. Please don't jump my case. I could go on and on and I don't even have kids yet. However my wife is due in September. I can't wait!

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 12:48 PM
i agree nix

raiderhater1
01-26-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Ohhhh......I cant wait to hear the responses from this one....its a whole new topic.....to spank or not to spank....

I believe in spanking, but not whoopin and there is a certain age when it should stop.....but hell I grew up knowing if I did something wrong, it as "the belt" time.....I only got it one time and it wasnt even my fault, my cousin asked our great grandma for a dollar ( i was just an innocent bystander, i swear) and my dad found out and gave us both the belt......:eek:

Needless to say, I have an aversion, to this day, to asking people for money.....LOL, and its true, my parents still get pissed at me cause I wont ever ask them for $$$$ when I need help, to me its the worst feeling in the world to ask another person for money and for the longest time I couldnt figure out why I would get that awful gut wrenching, stomach churning feeling when I needed to ask to borrow some, but it finally clicked, I truly think I associate asking money with the whole belt incident......




Im 15 yrs old and sometimes theres just some of those instances when u kinda miss being corrected like that. now my mom uses her pity face and makes me feel horrible that i disobeyed. sometimes u just need a good woopin!

orangenblue420
01-26-2004, 12:57 PM
So very true dislex, society is ALOT to blame for the raising of our children.....and kids arent stupid, they know that they can get their parents in trouble....I know of kids who have lied to the authorities about what their parents have done, just to get back at them for punishing them....

Here's a great story (kinda, prob gonna get my ass chewed for this one, but what the hell)

My neighbor hates me and my kids and calls the cops everytime more than one person is at my house, in fact he even called the cops when my kids were in MY front yard having a snowball fight and a snowball hit his house, that is what a pr!ck this guy is....anyways he called the cops to my house one night and I was out there talking to the police explaining who was at my house and why and my daughter made snide comment to one of the policemen (i know I said she is respectful but at times she does let her mouth run off a bit, dont know where she gets that from, must be her dad :D ) but anyways I told her to shut up, because she cant talk like that to an adult, nevermind a police officer....well check this out, the cop told ME to be quiet, she didnt want to have to make this into a domestic call also......

Can you believe that crap.....the cop threatened to turn me in or whatever because I told my daughter to shut up after talking back to THEM.....blew my freakin mind....how are we supposed to teach our children respect and how to behave when our own law enforcement/government doesnt allow it....

I have lost total respect for my cities PD after that, I mean I know that it was just that one cop but still, come on

raiderhater1
01-26-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Nixhex78
...Eventually my father didn't even have to whip me. All he had to do was look at me with a mean tone or raise his voice. I knew what was up and changed my behavoir immediately...


thats the same thing with my mom...and your thing about kids saying no and being disrespectful...i hate that crap. i want to smack them in the face and say dont u talk to your momma like that boy!

rascal
01-26-2004, 01:00 PM
I think nix summed it up pretty well. If you don't discipline your kids, which in my opinion shows lack of love, then they will walk all over you. As my wife stated the other day when we were talking about punishment she said, "punishing the kids makes their lives better, they may not think it today, but it will improve their way of living in the future." I have to agree, besides being a good husband and never disagreeing with my wife who is always correct HAHAHAH, because if they aren't disciplined what is to prevent them from living a life of crime at an early age, and once that is started it is hard to stop.

One thing that is bad, and which my mother in law did to her children, was get out of hand for her punishment. She often whipped out the belt for no reason and her kids were often oblivious as to why they were being punished. My dad, and I do the same now, would sit me down and talk to me before he spanked me. He would tell me why what I did was wrong and why he was punishing me. That way I knew it was for a reason, and that way both of us weren't mad, although I was sore, and it helped me have respect for him rather than fear, which a child should never have for their parents. My wife and I also had a tradition that the immediate punishment, often for smaller things, were done by my wife, whereas I would deal with the larger things. Since most things happened during the day, my wife calls me and tells me what happens, so that by the time I get home I have calmed down and approach things with a cool head, besides giving our children the time to think about what they have done before punishment. Another thing I found is that when I don't give out punishment for a particular event, although they know they should have and expected it, they don't have a repeat of that issue. But if they do have a repeat, then they get a large punishment instead because they were shown mercy but took advantage of it. Sorry for the length.

orang/blu in LA
01-26-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Can you believe that crap.....the cop threatened to turn me in or whatever because I told my daughter to shut up after talking back to THEM.....blew my freakin mind....how are we supposed to teach our children respect and how to behave when our own law enforcement/government doesnt allow it....

I have lost total respect for my cities PD after that, I mean I know that it was just that one cop but still, come on

That is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Sounds like a cop on a power trip... totally ridiculous. i'd have been FURIOUS, and probably would've embarked on some big letter writing campaign teach that cop a lesson... but then again i have too much time on my hands. ;)

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
I told her to shut up, because she cant talk like that to an adult, nevermind a police officer....well check this out, the cop told ME to be quiet, she didnt want to have to make this into a domestic call also..... honestly, i would not care what that cop says, (s)he cant do nothing to you for telling your own kid to shut up. I would say it again and again. If that cop dont like it so what, i wouldnt let my kid get away with nothing, no matter who is standing there. That does make me mad though.

rascal
01-26-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
honestly, i would not care what that cop says, (s)he cant do nothing to you for telling your own kid to shut up. I would say it again and again. If that cop dont like it so what, i wouldnt let my kid get away with nothing, no matter who is standing there. That does make me mad though.

The cop could arrest you, which she would have gotten in trouble for since she had no basis, but the inconvienence of it would have been enough of a deturrent for me. Although I would have documented it and then written a letter to someone (police chief, DA, or newspaper).

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 01:12 PM
I have a way with words that i use when i talk to people i am trying to discipline(lil sister lil cousins lil step brother) and i think it works just as well as a spankin, of course if they are trying to ignore me, i will get physical, but they always know what i am sayin is for thier better. I feel like i already have to be a father to some of my own family members. I mean, my little sister is spoiled as hell, i mean SPOILED. she is in a wheelchair paralyzed and all, but so what, we are used to that part, but the special treatment she gets is way uncaleld for. There are so many examples i could give you but i wont so just trust me. I tell her all the time to do stuff cause she is getting just so lazy and spoiled it is ridiculous, and she might not like me sometimes but i cant bear to see her as an adult and spoiled as she is now.

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by rascal
The cop could arrest you, which she would have gotten in trouble for since she had no basis, but the inconvienence of it would have been enough of a deturrent for me. Although I would have documented it and then written a letter to someone (police chief, DA, or newspaper). i respect the cops and the law and all that, but i would get straight pissed if a cop tried to handcuff me for telling my kid to shut up. I am dead serious, i would be mad as hell after all the TV i see drunk people cussin out an officer and all they get is a warning, but i tell my kid to shut up and you try to arrest me? ooo i would not like that.

orangenblue420
01-26-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
honestly, i would not care what that cop says, (s)he cant do nothing to you for telling your own kid to shut up. I would say it again and again. If that cop dont like it so what, i wouldnt let my kid get away with nothing, no matter who is standing there. That does make me mad though.

Well it was a woman cop, and being a woman myself I feel I can say this, but they are the worst....I have yet to meet a woman cop who wasnt on a power trip or who didnt think they had something to prove.....

Anyways, Lava, you have a good point but it was a catch 22, I couldnt sit there and argue with a cop and at the same time try to teach my daughter a lesson in respect for authority.....On the other hand I do want my children to know that just because someone is in a position of authority doesnt automatically make them right......

And rascal, you have a great plan, I think all parents should work together when raising their kids and should not contradict one another....the divorce rate is making that difficult though. From my experience it is extremely difficult being both.....Its hard to dish out the right amount of discipline and not look like a total b!tch all the time......but hey, you make do......

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Anyways, Lava, you have a good point but it was a catch 22, I couldnt sit there and argue with a cop and at the same time try to teach my daughter a lesson in respect for authority LOL i just thought about that. that was what you were telling your daughter to shut up for. that's one of those things you realize after you go back inside and calm down, then you chuckle.

Jared
01-26-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by pikman


I tell my kids to call my friends Mr. and Mrs., but my friends insist the kids call them by their first names. Fighting an uphill battle.

IMHO


What you need to do is simply pull your adult friends aside and say, politely, that you have instructed your children to address adults a certain way, and that out of respect for you, could they please stop giving the kids ideas contradictory to what you have taught them. A real friend will understand.

I personally do not want my friends kids (ok, so only one has a child old enough to speak, but still...) calling me by my first name. That's my opinion.

rascal
01-26-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Jared
What you need to do is simply pull your adult friends aside and say, politely, that you have instructed your children to address adults a certain way, and that out of respect for you, could they please stop giving the kids ideas contradictory to what you have taught them. A real friend will understand.

I personally do not want my friends kids (ok, so only one has a child old enough to speak, but still...) calling me by my first name. That's my opinion.

I wouldn't want to either, but still they should at first, then once it has been established then they can call you by your first name.

Thanks for the compliment OB420.

pikman
01-26-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Jared
What you need to do is simply pull your adult friends aside and say, politely, that you have instructed your children to address adults a certain way, and that out of respect for you, could they please stop giving the kids ideas contradictory to what you have taught them. A real friend will understand.

I personally do not want my friends kids (ok, so only one has a child old enough to speak, but still...) calling me by my first name. That's my opinion.

I get the arguement back that "It makes me feel old", get a grip, you are old. They think the kids relate to them better. BS, kids don't relate to adults it just doesn't happen.

THE SHIELD
01-26-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by orang/blu in LA
First - Dhall26, you crack me up. :)

Second, i think it has to do with manners and people raising their kids in a way where they actually THINK about others. it seems so simple, but yet there are so many people i know who seem to live in a bubble and who think they are ENTITLED to things. they're the ones who go through someone's fridge, and i guarantee they're not thinking about asking permission or wondering if the person just spent their last twenty bucks on the food they're about to steal...b/c for them, it's all about THEM and no one else. i have one friend who gets invited out to dinner and says how excited she is to order the filet mignon - b/c she knows SOMEONE ELSE is paying for it. That kills me. I don't care how much money someone has, when i get taken out to dinner, i always order something cheaper than what the person paying ordered.

I understand. Let me just say this, I was in Target on Sunday picking up a few things and on my way out, a little kid (approximately 4 years of age) and his mother were walking, and the little boy stops to mess with the pay phones, he picks them up and starts yelling in the mouthpiece and then banging the reciever, his mother politely says "Caleb, honey, let's go" the boy says "No, not now" and the mother says "Caleb, if you come we'll get an icee" What kind of crap is that. If that would have been me , just 23 years ago, my mother would have said "DHall if you don't get your ass a going I'm going to leave you here" or she would have said "I'm giving you 3 seconds to come on or that phone cord is going to be wrapped around your neck!!!!" I definitely wouldn't have gotten an ICEE!!!

pikman
01-26-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by dhall26
I definitely wouldn't have gotten an ICEE!!!

I'da needed the Icee for my sore assee. :eek:

THE SHIELD
01-26-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by pikman
I'da needed the Icee for my sore assee. :eek:

Icee very bad Pikman, you verry bad! you need spanky!

Jared
01-26-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by rascal
I wouldn't want to either, but still they should at first, then once it has been established then they can call you by your first name.


No. Any child, or anyone hwo is not a co-worker, friend or otherwise a peer, should never assume to call anyone by their first name unless explicitly asked to by said adult. I call my General Manager Mr. So-and-So, and he has never asked me to use his first name. My immediate supervisor has said to simpluy use the first name, but that'
s different. We are co-workers. If some kid just calls me Jared, I will certianly tell them that my name is Mr. ******, only my wife and friends call me Jared. Politely of course.


In regards to the other sub-topic about discipline, my father spanked up to a point. Spanking a teenager just embarasses them, I think. Teenagers can certainly be told WHY they are being punished, and what the future expectation of them is, without hitting them. But my dad also spanked after using alot of other techniques.

Let's say he wanted me to mow the lawn on a Saturday, and I was playing a video game or listening to my new record or cassette. I would say something along the lines of "When I am done" or "sure, In a bit". To which his response was one of the following:

1) Unplug my electronic device and say "My requests are non-negotiable, don't make me order you to do something."

2) Stand there and wait to make sure that the second I was "finished" he would follwo me to watch me start the errand while saying something like "Sorry, didn't realize that what you were doing was so important".

3) If he was grumpy or had asked already, he would get curt and say "You know, the freedoms I took a bullet in Vietnam fighting for don't include the freedom for you to not do what I say" This was the most effective.

Spanking was only after other avenues failed.

But he wasn't really a hard-ass. He was also my baseball coach, basketball coach, scoutmaster, and along with my mom, cheerleader. Even when he was working a part time job at Christmas to make ends meet or driving to into Philly to finish his masters, he never ever missed a play, pageant, game, or whatever, for any of the 5 of us kids. He just understood when to discipline appropriately.

orang/blu in LA
01-26-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by pikman
I'da needed the Icee for my sore assee. :eek:

SERIOUSLY! the icee story reminds me of being in a store - it was a Blockbuster, and this kid was throwing a FIT in line, screaming and yelling and disturbing everyone, all b/c he wanted this doll (a Miss Piggy doll, actually) and the salesperson had to take it to ring it up. The kid was old enough NOT to do that, and yet all the mother does is say to him "i told you we'd get you the doll, but we have to PAY for it first." If i did that, the doll would be BYE-BYE. I hate it when parents do nothing and yet everyone else must suffer the lungs of a child enraged.

Jared
01-26-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by pikman
I get the arguement back that "It makes me feel old", get a grip, you are old. They think the kids relate to them better. BS, kids don't relate to adults it just doesn't happen.

Well, I am 28, so I am not old, but to a kid, I am old.

And yes, if I remember correctly, when I was an adolescent, I thought that adults who tried to be my buddy were either weird or pathetic.

pikman
01-26-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by orang/blu in LA
SERIOUSLY! the icee story reminds me of being in a store - it was a Blockbuster, and this kid was throwing a FIT in line, screaming and yelling and disturbing everyone, all b/c he wanted this doll (a Miss Piggy doll, actually) and the salesperson had to take it to ring it up. The kid was old enough NOT to do that, and yet all the mother does is say to him "i told you we'd get you the doll, but we have to PAY for it first." If i did that, the doll would be BYE-BYE. I hate it when parents do nothing and yet everyone else must suffer the lungs of a child enraged.

I don't remember it but my dad told me when I was about 5 I was fitting out at the mall, (remember this is back a few years) he said that right there in the middle of the mall he took my pants down and tanned my backside, mostly to smiles and nods from other parents. Think I could get away with that today with my kid. The bleeding hearts are making it easier for kids to get away with more.

Let's say, hypothetically, your kid is fitting out in the mall, we already know you probably won't whup him right there, so you pick him up to take him out to the van. On the way to the van he's yelling and kicking and going on like a brat. Some one sees this, thinks you're abducting the kid and still calls the cops on you. You explain to the officer that you're just taking him to the van to "deal with him", now the cop thinks maybe he's got an abuse case, and the parent is still in shiat.

I say lay it to them in public, spare the child/spoil the rod and deal with the ramifications later.

rascal
01-26-2004, 02:44 PM
Jared,

Sounds like we have cool dad's as mine is very comparable. He was a traveling pharmacist, and he would have to travel to different stores through out the state whenever the regular pharmacist was off. He put 200k miles in 5 years on his car during this time, and he never missed a single football or basketball game of mine, or anyother important event.

Jared
01-26-2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by orang/blu in LA
SERIOUSLY! the icee story reminds me of being in a store - it was a Blockbuster, and this kid was throwing a FIT in line, screaming and yelling and disturbing everyone, all b/c he wanted this doll (a Miss Piggy doll, actually) and the salesperson had to take it to ring it up. The kid was old enough NOT to do that, and yet all the mother does is say to him "i told you we'd get you the doll, but we have to PAY for it first." If i did that, the doll would be BYE-BYE. I hate it when parents do nothing and yet everyone else must suffer the lungs of a child enraged.

The key in situations like that is follow through. If your child acts up like that, and you say something, guess what? Don't say it unless you are fully ready to do it. SO if that means leaving, then simply put back the video and leave, and explain that you are leaving because the child could not do what you asked. Even at that early age, it teaches responsibility. It also shows that you mean it when you say something. If you tell a child there will be ramifications, and then there are none, they learn very quickly that you are full of hot air. When we used to act up in teh car, and my parents said to knock it off or we would just go home, they actually did. My dad did that twice. That was all it took for us to understand that "Ok, they are not screwing around" Once was on some day trip to a park, which was no big deal. But the second time was on our way to the Jersey Shore for a week's vacation. We were already on the Atlantic City expressway. My dad turned around at a rest area. Said that we were not having a vacation that summer. We were stunned. My older sister waited an hour and quitely apologized for everything, and said that we all felt bad about wrecking vacation, because they weren't going to get one either. My dad stopped the car and said that "oh no, YOU gusy aren't having a vacation, your mother and I are still going" Apparently, he had called my grandparents and some aunts and uncles on the pay phone at the rest area. (This is why my parents never taught us Spanish!) With the exception of my youngest sister (who was not yet 2 at the time) he had arranged lodging for all of us, and work as well. :-( He also cancelled 2 of the 3 motel rooms he had reserved. We got back home at 3 in the afternoon, assorted relatives came by and picked us all up, and they drove right back down to the shore again with the baby. Needless to say, we never ever EVER fought in the car again. I just brought my walkman and kept my mouth shut after that. I was 8 years old when this happened, and I had to stay with my uncle Will, who was a state trooper. (talk about a hard ass!) I had to go to the the Boys Club every day (since he had to work), and then he would pick me up and I had to walk his dog every night, help him wash his car, and help him pack up his drums for a gig his band had. I also had to clean up the bedroom for his then-girlfriend's son. It was the worst 'vacaction" I ever had. When I wasn;t doing that, I was helping clean out his attic. :-( Oh......and no TV. Books and walkman were ok. But the last day, he let up and took me and a cousin Hersheypark, because he had a day off and he said I had earned it. :-) So THAT was cool.

orang/blu in LA
01-26-2004, 05:35 PM
Uh! I'm not sure what i would've done in front of the other people, but when we were alone my kid would KNOW to never be like that again. Then again, in your friend's case (which obviously i know very little about), it sounds like the child thought nothing of behaving like that, so most likely has been like that before. If it was a first time, and the kid had never used that tone or been that disrespectufl, i'd expect the mother to be slightly shocked and perhaps apologetic to you guys as she hurried upstairs to teach her kid some manners.... Let me ask you, is the father around? I'm just curiouis b/c i've seen a few single parent families where the eldest behaves like that.

When i was little i did the same thing to my mom. We were walking home one day after school, and she started talking to a neighbor. I was bored and finally started whining that i wanted to go home. Let me tell you, that was the last time i did that. The look she gave me told me i was in for it, and though i don't think i got a spanking, her words more than made up for it. after that i was never rude like that.

Return of Lava
01-26-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
Thoughts? Just say "i'll be there when i get there. go upstairs and wait for me, dont come back down here no more its grown folk bizness."

Jared
01-26-2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
I'll ask opinions on this one:

One of my very good friends has two kids, one just turned 12 and the other 8 (boy/girl, respectively).

We both live in the same apartment complex, and we both know several people from hanging out at the pool so much last summer. So one night, we're hanging out and we start to walk out of the pool when we run into some of the people we know. It's about 9pm, and now all 5 of us are standing outside the gate from the pool.

My friend's 12 year old comes down the steps and asks her what she's doing. She explains that she's talking with us, but that she'll be up in a few minutes. He seems satisfied and goes back upstairs.

Well, we end up laughing it up for about another 15 minutes before he comes back down the stairs again.

First words out of his mouth:
"Mom, you said it would be a few minutes!"
(in this "Bltch, get your ass upstairs" tone...I kid you not)

Now, I'm nearly speechless, because all I can think of is what would have happened to ME if I had said that to MY mom, let alone my dad...but she says "I know, I'm coming."

She says she has to go and hustles upstairs, leaving the other 4 of us with our mouths hanging open.

And no, she was NOT going up to put him to bed or make dinner, and it was summer, so no homework helping either.

Thoughts?

It entirely possible that he had a question that he was too shy to ask in front of people he marginally knows, or it could be that perhaps he took her literally and was annoyed at the fact that she didn't follow through on her "few minutes". Kids can be like that. His tone of voice was not called for though.

Without knowing what he was so impatient for, I can't fully say what was going on there. It is entirely possible that the mother had promised to do something and it had slipped her mind that she made such a promise, and you know how kids are when you have raised their expectations. But no matter what, I would have never used that particular tone of voice, ever. Now as a 12 year old, I might have whined, you know that "Moooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm.......you said you'd be a few miiiiiiiiiiiiiinuuuuuuuuuuuuutes" and maybe pout or something, but not in that "get your butt up here and cook me dinner woman" voice.

Its also entirely possible that , in her anger or shock, she doesn't know how to excuse herself, but she is embarrassed, and feels the need to go discipline her child ASAP.

BlueDamsel
01-26-2004, 09:08 PM
First of all, I'll say I'm in my mid-twenties. I do not have any children, but I have a 2.5 year old nephew. He has a little "buddy" who is almost 5. The two are completely opposite ends of the spectrum, both in how they have been raised, and how they behave.

My nephew, S, is a doll. He was eating with a fork by the time he turned one, talks in full sentences, is almost fully potty trained (he still has accidents, but he's only 2...!) and behaves well in public. He knows when and how to stand up for himself, is highly educated in the sports department & disney movies, sleeps through the night in his OWN big boy bed.

J, his buddy, is a heathen. He *still* doesn't eat with a fork, can not speak in a full sentence, much less be understood when he does get any words out. He is always up & down & climbing & throwing things & jumping into everything in public. When I went to give my nephew his Christmas present (a Plummer jersey!), J came over & started pulling it out of the box before S could even get to it. He tried to tell my nephew it was "too big for him" and that "he should have it, not my nephew". (My nephew promptly got angry & said "I'm GROWING!")

The difference in raising? Huge...My nephew has been taught since he was days old how to behave--even as a little tyke he would have his toes flicked if he did something wrong (not hard, and not in an abusive manner) and he was taught right from wrong. He gets spankings if he misbehaves, and that is pretty rare. He has always had his own bed to sleep in, in his own room. J gets told "go to the corner" or "Go see your father for a spanking". If he says "no" then he gets away with it. He just barely got his own bed, much less his own room (he has to share it with his 1 year old sister) and was sleeping in the bed with his parents!

Of course, I've also seen the other other end of the spectrum--too much "discipline". My cousins are not allowed to act like children. My oldest cousin got taken away for a while because my uncle would drag her by her ears to the kitchen & make her cook & clean. We're working on getting CPS to investigate the family & are waiting out for her 18th birthday next month. There is a time & a place for spanking & I'm totally for it, but my immediate family's belief is never hit with anything but the hand--then you know how hard you are hitting the child & you feel it yourself. Wasn't a time that my mom spanked me that she didn't hurt more than I did.

BlueDamsel
01-26-2004, 09:14 PM
This is one of the times that it's not good at all:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2794255/detail.html

mattos
01-27-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by dhall26
I think the reason why kids are so darn messed up, is that there are not enough ass whoopings! Bring back the paddle, and instill the fear back into the kids. What ever happened to the phrase "What did you Say to Me?" and then Pow! "Don't ever tell me No again you little ****!!!!"

From Boyz in the Hood - (approx)

dad to son "i'll pay you $5 to rake the lawn"

son "i can make more than that doing . . ."

dad "oh that's too bad, i'll guess i'll have to get my son to do it. go rake the law."


I'm all full of movie quotes today. i'm also all for spanking and saying mr. and mrs. as far as mr and mrs goes, if the kid is raised to respect older people then i guess they don't have to say it, but i don't see the point in not requiring them too. especially since our society as a whole uses those terms. parents who think they're being enlightened by letting their kids use first names remind me of middleschooler's complaining about the rules at school - yes the dress code is a bid arbitrary, but that's not the point. saying mr and mrs just isn't that hard to do. and since its just a cultural way of expressing respect, unless you are against respect, you might as well teach your kids to say it.

Shenlong
02-04-2004, 09:27 AM
ok in light of the conversation i would like to ask a question if you all dont mind.. i dont have any children of my own.. but my girl does.. she has a daughter that is 2 and a half years old.. what age is a good age for the child to start sleeping in her own bed? i honestly dont like the fact that she allows her to sleep with us everytime i am there.. as we are currently looking for our own house together i have been wondering about this.. but the child is hers from a previous and not mine so i dont try to discpiline the child at all i dont feel its my place ya know? but i have seen this 2 year old slap and hit and throw things and she just tells her its ok and gives her her way.. i cannot stand to see this it pisses me off like no other but i continue to be mute.. i know she will get mad if i tell her how to raise her child.. but this i believe will cause issues in the future but i do realize its her fault for allowing the child to be that way.. but for lack of personal experience with children im askin am i wrong that i dont think this child should be sleeping with us every nite?

orangenblue420
02-04-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
ok in light of the conversation i would like to ask a question if you all dont mind.. i dont have any children of my own.. but my girl does.. she has a daughter that is 2 and a half years old.. what age is a good age for the child to start sleeping in her own bed? i honestly dont like the fact that she allows her to sleep with us everytime i am there.. as we are currently looking for our own house together i have been wondering about this.. but the child is hers from a previous and not mine so i dont try to discpiline the child at all i dont feel its my place ya know? but i have seen this 2 year old slap and hit and throw things and she just tells her its ok and gives her her way.. i cannot stand to see this it pisses me off like no other but i continue to be mute.. i know she will get mad if i tell her how to raise her child.. but this i believe will cause issues in the future but i do realize its her fault for allowing the child to be that way.. but for lack of personal experience with children im askin am i wrong that i dont think this child should be sleeping with us every nite?

Now pre warning.....this is just advice, do with it what you will....

First, if you two are moving in together, then you should have SOME say in what the child does and how the child behaves, if she doesnt want that, then your relationship needs to stay on a strictly dating level.

Second, spare the rod, spoil the chld. My belief anyhow, although it is much easier said than done. Also, the girl is 2, there is a reason they call it "the terrible twos" Kids have a tendency to throw tantrums and be brats at that age, but that is when you nip it in the bud or they never get past that "phase" She needs a good paddle on the rear, here and there.

Third, sleeping in the parents bed is taboo as far as im concerned....there are occassions that its ok....i.e. nightmares, thunderstorms, not feeling well, or as just a reward but it definately should NOT be done a a regular basis, esp. if you two plan on moving in together. For obvious reasons its not a good thing for a relationship. Its one thing to hop in your parents bed in the morning to watch cartoons or something but not to sleep....But if you want some "expert" advice, I know you can go on line and find a ton....some ppl dont like Dr. Phil but he made some good points on this whole subject but my short term memory escpaes me at the moment, therefore you will have to do a little research....

My advice to you is to think long and hard before letting this woman and her child move in with you (or you all living together)...does this child have an active father in her life???

If not and you plan on all being together it will and should become your responsibility...it is a lot better for kids to have both figures, regardless of who they are, but it does take a village to raise a child and its not an easy thing to do on your own...she is probably having a real hard time balancing discipline with love...i know I do, i tend to spoil and overcompensate and it hurts more than it helps....trust me

Shenlong
02-04-2004, 09:47 AM
we will just say the kids father is not exactly a model citizen..he also liked to get physical and not nice physical if you know what i mean.. that is why the seperated.. i think the habit of the kid sleeping with her is cuz she always slept alone so she let her sleep with her and it just became habit.. now when we go to bed we are followed.. and then the kid screams and cries and it seems like she wont tell the kid no.. and the thing that worries me also is that if everything works out then in a few years i dont want to be hearing the statement "well youre not my dad i dont have to listen to you".. i saw several of my friends pull that one out when i was a child

Shenlong
02-04-2004, 09:48 AM
so how do i go about saying hey your child needs to sleep in her own bed?

orangenblue420
02-04-2004, 10:12 AM
Well she is in the habit now so it will be extremely hard to break but that is something you two need to do. My suggestion is talking about it, figure out a plan that you both agree on and follow through no matter what. You will have to be the rock and there may be some hard feelings at first, but if you trully want it to work, it will turn out OK.

As far as the dad is concenered, first its a legal issue. If the law says he has a right to be in her life, then he does. If he chooses not to or the law says he is unfit then more of the responsibility will fall onto you. And again, you have to think long and hard before taking that resoponsibility.

As far as the "not my dad" thing. If you plan on being in it for the long haul and you love her it wont matter. My real dad died when I was four. My mom met a man and they got married shortly after (her and my real dad were getting divorced when he died). That man has been my "father" since I was four. I know no other dad. He is my DAD and will always be my dad, he loves me like one of his own (actually him and my mom had two kids together and im still his favorite :D ) The funny thing is he's black and I am whiter than white. But I call him my dad and he calls me his daughter whenever we introduce each other or talk about each other, cause thats what we are to each other. (Funny side note: you should see people when we do introduce each other, its funny, some people ask why im so light skinned....mind you, I have blonde hair, green eyes, and very little pigmentation, I have and Irish background....LOL)

The words, you are not my dad, have NEVER been uttered from my lips, cause he is my dad....he raised me, he loved me, he disciplined me, now thats what a dad is......

Shenlong
02-04-2004, 10:15 AM
thanks a million orange and blue

orangenblue420
02-04-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
so how do i go about saying hey your child needs to sleep in her own bed?

Like i said, discuss it rationally and calmly. Tell her how you feel about it, tell her the problems you see with it and do a little background work to have some facts to fall back on....But its definately something you need to work on BEFORE moving in together.....break the child NOW, not later.....

pikman
02-04-2004, 03:03 PM
Hey Moonshot...Just from my experience...

I've got a 5 and 3 year old at home. We went thru a similar situation with both of them.

They didn't sleep in our bed, but my wife had to sleep in their beds most nights...up until they were both about 2yrs old. About this time they actually got sick of having her in their beds and now they both sleep great, all alone in their own rooms.

My thinking on the whole subject is that eventually (some longer than others) they outgrow this need. Eventually that little girl will decide she needs her own space, and she'll be happy as a clam in her own room. Based on the kids background (father) she may be a little more clingy than other kids, but look at whats more important...the grown up or the child that has greater needs,

Just my experience and opinion.

Shenlong
02-04-2004, 03:05 PM
thank you for the input

Jared
02-06-2004, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
ok in light of the conversation i would like to ask a question if you all dont mind.. i dont have any children of my own.. but my girl does.. she has a daughter that is 2 and a half years old.. what age is a good age for the child to start sleeping in her own bed? i honestly dont like the fact that she allows her to sleep with us everytime i am there.. as we are currently looking for our own house together i have been wondering about this.. but the child is hers from a previous and not mine so i dont try to discpiline the child at all i dont feel its my place ya know? but i have seen this 2 year old slap and hit and throw things and she just tells her its ok and gives her her way.. i cannot stand to see this it pisses me off like no other but i continue to be mute.. i know she will get mad if i tell her how to raise her child.. but this i believe will cause issues in the future but i do realize its her fault for allowing the child to be that way.. but for lack of personal experience with children im askin am i wrong that i dont think this child should be sleeping with us every nite?


A child should be sleeping in their own bed from the day they come home from the hospital, this according to the literature I am cureently reading and my wife, who is studying. Its hard, but you are going to have to let them cry after checking diapers and attempting feeding. eventually they associate their bed with sleep, not yours. The longer she waits, the harder it will be. You'll probably have some sleepless nighst as the baby cries and cries, but patience is so important.

pikman
02-06-2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Jared
A child should be sleeping in their own bed from the day they come home from the hospital, this according to the literature I am cureently reading and my wife, who is studying. Its hard, but you are going to have to let them cry after checking diapers and attempting feeding. eventually they associate their bed with sleep, not yours. The longer she waits, the harder it will be. You'll probably have some sleepless nighst as the baby cries and cries, but patience is so important.

Different strokes for different folks Jared. Let me know how that goes for ya? Thank god I'm thru all that.

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 09:01 AM
i have sleepless nights every nite.. when she says its bedtime she goes to the big bed rather than hers and gets comfortable much to my dismay.. especially when the bed really isnt big enough to hold 3 people.. i dont believe the child has slept alone in 5 or 6 months.. and haha sex is kinda like the man on the moon.. its happened before but not in a really long time

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 09:03 AM
but yet she wonders why im so irritated in the morning when i wake up with no blanket and shoved to the edge of the bed because the two of them have taken up all of the space and blanket.. im sleeping on the couch tonite!

orangenblue420
02-06-2004, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
i have sleepless nights every nite.. when she says its bedtime she goes to the big bed rather than hers and gets comfortable much to my dismay.. especially when the bed really isnt big enough to hold 3 people.. i dont believe the child has slept alone in 5 or 6 months.. and haha sex is kinda like the man on the moon.. its happened before but not in a really long time

And that right there is what I feel the biggest problem will be...more than what it does to the child, which, to be honest, im not sure of, it WILL ruin your relationship with the mom...like I said, please make sure the habit has been broken BEFORE you two get a place together.....

Too bad your a chiefie fan, id give you my number (or you can just check the bathroom wall of the Broncos lockerroom if you really want it :D )

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 09:49 AM
you are right we get along really well but i think if anything will do it it will be that.. i get along great with the child but its a strain.. im willing to accept the fact that when you have children you dont have much alone time.. but when the child is in bed with you every nite not much alone time turns into no alone time.. she wants me to be in a position of disciplne but i cant do that cuz the two of us have different ideas on discpiline obviously.. shes the one that caves and im for tough love..

Jared
02-06-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by pikman
Different strokes for different folks Jared. Let me know how that goes for ya? Thank god I'm thru all that.


Oh, won't matter to me. I am excited, but if the girl is dry and fed, I have no problems letter her cry all night. I sleep like a rock. Doesn't mean I won't love her. Especially once they get to be 2 or 3 and should be sleeping through the whole night like an adult. I actually amd worried that I won't hear her crying when my wife is on call.

And it may different folks for different strokes, but all I know is that everything I have read based on decades of research shows that in terms of social development, allowing your child to sleep in bed with you really hinders their ability to have peers their own age and it can lead to serious seperation anxiety issues when they start school. All they want is to be with Mom and Dad, because they don't feel safe otherwise. Admittedly, children that young don't understand any of this, they want what they want. But when they know they can't get what they they want, they do give up. When they realize that their bed is where they belong, they look forward to it.

moonshot, does your girlfriend read to her child in their bed? Its so old school but it can do wonders for helping this along. And she HAS to be patient and firm about telling the child that they have to sleep in their own bed. The crying and resistance will be tremendous. The child will grow out of this, but there is such a huge opportunity to teach something valuable here. And reading to a child is also helpful for developing their language skills.
Also, let me ask: Is bed time the same time every night? Is there any set routine?

This is not your child, so it is tough, but if you are going to be there in the long term, ESPECIALLY if you are going to be sharing the rent, then you get equal input into the rules of the house. And that could be sticky unless you talk to her about it now (living together, not how to raise her child).

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 10:36 AM
she reads to her but not in bed.. and she also doesnt have a set bedtime for the child and that is something i think she should have.. she just kinda lets her stay up until she decides she wants to go to bed which to me i think will cause conflict later cuz the child already does what she pleases for the most part.. im with you jared.. if the child is fed and dry there is no reason to pamper her in the nite.. yes she will cry but she will eventually cry herself to sleep like i did and most children do.. only thing is is its not like she lays in her bed adn cries she will just walk in the room.. im all for locking the door and making her get used to the fact she cant sleep with us.. but the one time we locked the door the insuing fit was horrendous and she caved in and opened the door.. as soon as the door swung open it was all smiles and i got pissed and went to sleep.. she wanted nothing more to be in bed with us and yet again she got her way ... i was mad cuz as soon as i saw the smile i knew the fit was just to get the door open rather than her needing something..

yes the fact that it isnt my child makes it tougher because there are some things that i dont know whether i have the right to say anything or not.. for the longest time i didnt think i had the right to say anything about the child sleeping with us.. thats why i asked on here.. (haha this is probly hardly the place to be seeking advice on things like this lol) and altho i have never been present when it happens i do know the child has a tendancy to have some caniption fits in public just to get her way.. she doesnt like attention so shell often give in to the child to curb the screaming in public.. if i was ever around that i would be the one saying i dont care let her scream shell get over it we cant just give in to her cuz she wants to throw a fit and make a scene.. but i dont know if i have the right to say that either.. does she want my opinion or will she resent me if i give my opinion? that is the question i ask myself everyday

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 10:38 AM
kinda funny how right now were no longer chiefs and broncos here...

pikman
02-06-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
kinda funny how right now were no longer chiefs and broncos here...

Just old folks with things in common....

how'd this happen? :D

Moonshot I hope that the suggestions you are getting in this thread can help. Just one more bit of advice (warranted or not). At the end of the day you and your girlfriend have to get on the same page and do what you feel in your hearts to be right. This will pass, and then it'll keep getting better.

I.e. teenage issues AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh, I can hardly wait for that.

orangenblue420
02-06-2004, 10:49 AM
Moonshot the more I hear, i cant help but think GET AWAY - FAR FAR AWAY - LOL,

but seriously, dude, this lady is going way overboard.....she is going to ruin that child, and this is coming from experience....the hardest thing for me to do is discipline my kids....so it was great when me and my ex were together but it has become so much more difficult since becoming a single mom.

I had to giggle at what Jared wrote (please no offense jared) because it is so typical male, not in a bad way. My ex would sleep through WWIII so letting the baby cry wasnt a big deal to him cause he slept through it, but it was a HUGE deal for me cause I wake up if the kids sniffle.....and when I had my daughter I was still living with my mom and dad and when my daughter got to be around 6 mths and still wasnt sleeping through the night, my mom forced me to let her cry one night...my mom is a firm believer in this, and I tried and tried but eventually broke down...she never slept in my bed (other than for the special reasons) though, even though neither of my kids slept through the night until they got to be toddlers, so it was tough but I also knew it was no ones fault but mine.

I guess what Im trying to say, is its easier said than done. You think that you can tough it out but when you hear your child screaming and gasping etc, it breaks your heart, so I feel for her but at two its gotta stop, esp, in public. Neither of my kids were tantrum throwers cause they know my limit, they know they can push me farther than most, but they also know that I do have a breaking point. This woman of yours moonshot, has no limit, she tolerates everything and thats the BIG difference. I never ever would have tolerated a tantrum in public, and would not have cared what people thought around me when i put a stop to it, they need to mind their own damn business.

You really, really need to lay down some ground rules and fast......you DO have a say in this relationship and the way this child gets raised if you are going to be a part of their life.

This needs to start with the mom, you two need to do some major discussing on this whole discipline subject and you having a say.

Good luck man

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 10:52 AM
Just old folks with things in common....

haha im only 22 but im getting a crash course on life.. ive never really had an ounce of responsibility to anyone but myself so its all new territory to me.. thats why im trying to be as understanding as i possibly can and i think long and hard about things before i say them.. its all making me feel old cuz im still a child at heart.. my perfect day is still being on the playground playin basketball or football and just running around not caring..

but thank you so much for things you have said and to jared as well.. there are no words to show my appreciation for the advice you two have given me on a subject in which an immature ( i say immature cuz i still think (and sometimes act) like im 14 or 15) 22 year old knows absolutely nothing about..

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 10:58 AM
Moonshot the more I hear, i cant help but think GET AWAY - FAR FAR AWAY - LOL,

LOL i cant help but think the same thing.. but thats another easier said than done thing.. on that note i think its time i work up some courage and bring some things up .. if she gets pissed off and offended then i guess thats how its got to be cuz i cant go on silently being pissed off about things.. shes got to find within herself the strength to put the love aside and be stern for the good of the child, her and me.. and if shes not prepared to do that then ultimately its going to cost her and the child.. cuz to be honest with you i dont think there are too many men out there would (or should) have to deal with that

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 11:03 AM
but seriously, dude, this lady is going way overboard.....she is going to ruin that child, and this is coming from experience....the hardest thing for me to do is discipline my kids....so it was great when me and my ex were together but it has become so much more difficult since becoming a single mom.

another question tho.. does this come from being a single mom or is it just her?

orangenblue420
02-06-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by moonshot314
another question tho.. does this come from being a single mom or is it just her?

Well it sounds like both in her case. For me its easier to stick to the discipline if I have someone backing me up, not to mention someone to answer to if I were to cave....but being a single mom, I know its hard to divide yourself into the disciplinarian and the loving doating parent. Sometimes I feel like all I do is yell, so I oversompensate by giving them just about everything they ask for, even though I know I shouldnt. For me, I have not found the happy medium and dont know if I will (but I only have a few years left then I can kick their asses oout when they piss me off....LOL JUST KIDDING!!!). I tend to be a pushover by nature (hard to believe I know, Im just a pushover with a big mouth....LOL)

What you need to try and explain to her is that you understand where she is coming from and how its hard for her, but let her know that in the long run it will be better for everyone if she gets a little stearner with the child, and let her know that if she is having trouble with that, that you have her back.

Now I dont want you to be a pushover with your lady, you need to have this discussion with her, dont make me come up their and whooop your ass :D

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 11:42 AM
Now I dont want you to be a pushover with your lady, you need to have this discussion with her, dont make me come up their and whooop your ass

lol dont you owe me a kiss from a different thread as well? i wont be a pushover believe me.. i just hope she doesnt get ideas from it and start pushing me away thinking im goin to be some kind of ass... i enjoy time with the kid too.. but i need time alone with her as well..

Jared
02-06-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by orangenblue420


I had to giggle at what Jared wrote (please no offense jared) because it is so typical male, not in a bad way. My ex would sleep through WWIII so letting the baby cry wasnt a big deal to him cause he slept through it, but it was a HUGE deal for me cause I wake up if the kids sniffle.....and when I had my daughter I was still living with my mom and dad and when my daughter got to be around 6 mths and still wasnt sleeping through the night, my mom forced me to let her cry one night...my mom is a firm believer in this, and I tried and tried but eventually broke down...she never slept in my bed (other than for the special reasons) though, even though neither of my kids slept through the night until they got to be toddlers, so it was tough but I also knew it was no ones fault but mine.

I guess what Im trying to say, is its easier said than done. You think that you can tough it out but when you hear your child screaming and gasping etc, it breaks your heart, so I feel for her but at two its gotta stop, esp, in public.


Well, giggle all you want, but your mom was right. And I learned this from watching my mom, so I don't know that it is male exclusive behavior. And hearing a child cry doesn't break my heart. I accept it as normal. I can focus it out and ignore it. That's what I did with my youngest sister growing up. I was a bad babysitter I guess. Basically, the kids don't differentiate between public and private behavior, so what happens at home is very important.

I agree with you that moonshot needs to have a talk about this relationship with her and also needs to ask her how much input she wants or expects from him reagrding the child. Especially if he is considering staying around in the long term or getting married. Once those rules are set, things will go much smoother. Understanding the mutual rules and expectations of a relationship is so important, because it can minimize mis-understandings or assumptions.

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 11:59 AM
I agree with you that moonshot needs to have a talk about this relationship with her and also needs to ask her how much input she wants or expects from him reagrding the child. Especially if he is considering staying around in the long term or getting married. Once those rules are set, things will go much smoother. Understanding the mutual rules and expectations of a relationship is so important, because it can minimize mis-understandings or assumptions.

haha jared thank you .. you just indirectly mapped out my discussion with her tonite.. the way you worded your post gave me the perfect idea of how to bring it up without offending.. im just goin to start off by askin how much of my input on the child she wants and what she expects to do with my opinion when i give it to her.. thanks jared

Jared
02-06-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by moonshot314
haha jared thank you .. you just indirectly mapped out my discussion with her tonite.. the way you worded your post gave me the perfect idea of how to bring it up without offending.. im just goin to start off by askin how much of my input on the child she wants and what she expects to do with my opinion when i give it to her.. thanks jared

Thanks. I think...

(WIth my luck, my ideas will end up causing a break up...hahaha)

Regardless of how you word it, you do seem concerend and confused as to your role in the life of the child. Asking about that is fair. If she can't handle you asking that or gets defensive, maybe you need to consider if the relationship is worth it. I mean, all you want is clarification.

Also, and this is harsh since I don't know you, but have you considered not always spending the night? Not because you are punishing her or anything, but because clearly, this is affecting your sleeping pattern, and also, you are clearly concerned about whether or not you are a father figure to this child. ANd the child may be confused about that too.

Plus, it would allow for actual dating. She would have to actually make time to spend with you because you wouldn't be around all the time. She would have to make arrangments to see you outside of her apartment. Or at least, after a certain point fo the night.

Shenlong
02-06-2004, 02:54 PM
well spending the nite makes it easier cuz i currently live bout 35 minutes away from her.. so if i go and dont stay im not there as long and the drive time sucks.. i do agree with you on the allowing for dating thing cuz recently she actually commented on the fact that wiht me being around she didnt feel like she had to try as hard to make time for me becuz i was helping her out and she got to see me in her normal everyday life.. she wasnt meaning that selfishly i know this by her facial expressions and tone of voice.. but it did kind of freak me out

Shenlong
02-08-2004, 11:05 AM
good post bcollin1.. and you are very right.. and everything was discussed this weekend and everything went extremely well. i was rather shocked it went so well.. rules and guidelines have been set and i even suggested the advice to her that was given by i believe jared.. the thing about reading to the child in her own bed until she goes to sleep so she feels safe.. i just stated my opinion that at times i think she isnt stern enough .. she said she didnt want to be mean and i told her its not about being mean its about being an example and she agreed... but she also says its easier to be stern with someone backing her up and supporting her since shes always done it alone... so at this point everything seems to be great..

Shenlong
02-09-2004, 12:17 PM
thank you.. everything is great!