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View Full Version : CU football scandel (merged with "Gary Barnett" thread)



rascal
01-30-2004, 12:19 PM
I'm just curious as to what people think about the CU football scandel reguarding sex parties. Personally, if it is true about the sex parties (which included numerous alleged rap victims) and the university did nothing and knew about it, their asses should be kicked to the curb (barnett and others) and the football program should be dealt with harshly. This is embarrassing.

orangenblue420
01-30-2004, 02:23 PM
Its truly pathetic if what is being said is true, Im not a Colorado college fan but still, thats just totally wrong.

Whats ironic is that everyone talks about how colleges and college players are in it for the love of the game and once they get to the NFL they become spolied and selfish, etc. etc. but I have made the point, several times, that it goes all the way down to the HS level when it comes to this BS and this just proves it.

Something is really, really wrong with our society if we feel getting a good player to our school is more important than human lives (if the rape allegations are true).

ozzy_osbourne
02-18-2004, 06:54 PM
How insensitve can you be??? yeah we know she is a girl and a kicker but she claims RAPE and all you do is demean her??? he should be let go for that remark alone...

rascal
02-18-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by ozzy_osbourne
How insensitve can you be??? yeah we know she is a girl and a kicker but she claims RAPE and all you do is demean her??? he should be let go for that remark alone...

If he is kept and CU doesn't do anything I am no longer a fan, hell I'm on the border already. I know for sure that any relatives of mine won't be attending if I have anything to do with it.

rascal
02-18-2004, 07:16 PM
As one of the 5% who did play college football and get a degree I have some room to talk on this subject. I found nothing wrong with your statement and I in fact agree with it. Most of my fellow teammates, even though this was at a DII school, were there for football only and would do anything they could to keep that honor. If that meant breaking school rules or public rules so beat it. As a player who was at school primarily for an education it was embarrassing and often difficult to put up with. Not to say that I often didn't take advantage of my "fame" as a football player I could only put up with so much of the crap that was going on before I found it utterly disgusting. While it is obvious that players find it easier to have sex, the allegations that are occuring at CU themselves are damning. In my not so humble opinion on this matter, any man who rapes a women should have his balls cut off and cooked infront of him and forced to eat them. Not sure what the point of this response is, it that isn't obvious by my rambling, I just like I should respond as I have a background that is related to this topic.

rcsodak
02-18-2004, 07:27 PM
I think the media is missing football too.
Hey, listen. If CP can be "misquoted", I'm sure Barney can also. I say lets give barney another chance. Maybe he'll recant also.:D

Return of Lava
02-18-2004, 11:17 PM
i dont see the big deal with barnett saying the girl couldnt kick, maybe she just couldn't. I dont think it was sexist cause she was allowed to be on the team right? if she wasnt on the team, a lot of other people would have been like "he is so sexist he wouldn't let her on the team cause she is a girl" I believe the girl should have came out a long time ago when she was actually raped, instead if waiting 5 years later or so. not saying she is lying, but after waiting 5 years, why all of a sudden step up?

Return of Lava
02-18-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by TXBRONC
What will you do to them rascal? Since you're an ex Marine I might tend to listen to you a little closer. At anyrate, Barnett should have kept big mouth closed. If gets canned it would serve him right. what did he do wrong, say she couldnt kick? whats wrong with that, he probably would have said the same had she been a guy.

Fat Joe
02-19-2004, 12:21 AM
what in the bloody are you guys talking about?

BlueDamsel
02-19-2004, 01:01 AM
I missed the news tonight, I was at the hospital seeing my new nephew be born.

From what I heard, most of her complaints had to do with being "harrassed" by having players throw footballs at her head, make sexist remarks & "expose themselves". All Barnett said was "Tell me who it was...That's all I need to know". They interviewed some of the other players & they said "if anything she was the one doing the exposing of herself" (this coming from one of the co-captains)

The whole thing has been way blown out of the water by the media. Hell, I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, but instead of making it a national thing, why not keep it within the system?

Of course, at the rate things are going, I might as well file a law suit against the University of New Mexico. I was almost raped when I was attending that school, back in 99-00. Luckily, I was smart enough to know how to use my self-defense & break the guy's arm & scamper off...But I'm sure that I could blame it all on the school (the guy was a student there too...I mean, sure we were off campus, but...hell, it works for all the girls). Then I can sue my former employer because it happened in front of my building...Oh and while I'm at it, why not turn around and sue CU for discrimination...I mean, geesh, I was a student there & I wasn't invited to any of these parties...They were discriminating & didn't give me an equal opportunity to be harrassed at a football party.

*rolls eyes*

thehoot79
02-19-2004, 01:11 AM
This whole rape fiasco with CU is just fuggin' ridiculous. The media makes it seem like CU is the only school that these types of things happen at. Give me a friggin' break man. Unfortunately, women are groped and raped at colleges all over the United States not just CU. I love how these people come out to the media 4 years after something happens and claim how it's "haunted" their lives and that it's "affected" them forever. Christ, get a backbone OKAY!!! I've met women that have been raped and they've dealt with it in their minds and realized that it happened and nothing can change it. Rapists are just wastes of skin, it's part of life. Regardless, I have no sympathy for these women that make their rapes public years and years after the fact. All they want is media attention. I'm sorry, but get over it, you were raped 4 years ago, DEAL WITH IT!!! In no way do I condone rape, but when these people come out all these years after the fact and say that it still affects them I just want to vomit. OK, she wasn't beaten, she wasn't knocked up, how has it affected her? It's affected her mentally that's all; become a stronger person for god's sake. We've all had tragedy happen in our lives and had mishaps that have caused scars and pain, but this country seriously has an obsession with rape. There's something wrong when rapists spend more time in jail then murderers. And anybody who says rape is as bad as murder, ought to be beaten repeatedly with a wooden mallet. Anyways, I'm done ranting. Again, just my opinion.

thehoot79
02-19-2004, 01:32 AM
Alright, JD, what's narrow minded about my post? I speak my mind and tell it like it is. The truth hurts. If you truly believe that rapists don't get enough jail time then you better research your statistics. People who are prosecuted for murder and manslaughter constantly get more lenient sentences then they should. I read a story about a couple that was crashed into by a drunk driver and the husband was killed, but the wife was in a coma and the driver only got something like 10 years. Rapists are scumbags, don't get me wrong, but in my opinion this country seems to look at rape as a worse thing then murder and that's ludicrous. JD, maybe you should think outside the box, which is something most humans are incapable of doing. They just follow the crowd like sheep. I've seen several different cases in the news where a rapist gets more jail time then somebody who kills another human being. Nobody can deny here that our justice system needs tweaking. Anyways, to make this post somewhat about football, I don't believe that Gary Barnett is to blame. These things happen and unfortunately you can't do anything to stop it at such a big university.

BlueDamsel
02-19-2004, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by thehoot79
I love how these people come out to the media 4 years after something happens and claim how it's "haunted" their lives and that it's "affected" them forever. Christ, get a backbone OKAY!!! I've met women that have been raped and they've dealt with it in their minds and realized that it happened and nothing can change it.
OK, she wasn't beaten, she wasn't knocked up, how has it affected her? It's affected her mentally that's all; become a stronger person for god's sake.
And anybody who says rape is as bad as murder, ought to be beaten repeatedly with a wooden mallet.

Wow, Okay, when I put up my sarcastic take on things, yes I was half serious. No I'm not going to go file a suit against NM, or anybody, but as a woman who was "almost" raped almost exactly 4 years ago, I'll have to say you're very wrong... First of all, I have to say I'm a very strong, independent woman. I have a backbone (as screwed up as it is with my medical problems) and yet I also have "memories" and have been diagnosed with PTSD. No, I didn't fight in a war, nor did I witness any murders or anything, it stems from both the attempted rape & the several awful car accidents I was in (awful in the sense of what they did to my body, not the sense of everything burning up/mutilated/etc).
I have been with my current significant other for over 2 years now. He will tell you that getting me to be intimate with him, especially around this time of year is like pulling teeth. While I moved on with my life & "got over" everything, there are certain things that send me into a relapse & whenever I close my eyes I see "him"...It does affect one's daily life. Imagine being afraid to trust someone because they share similarities with someone who completely busted your trust. Yes it was silly of these girls to wait this long to report what happened, but at the same time, I can understand it to a degree. I still have never reported the attempted rape to the authorities. Only a few very close friends, a doctor, the guy & myself know exactly what happened. Unfortunatly, the first person I told about it, when I came home from work that day, crumpled into a shell of the person I usually was, crying & shaking & not able to talk for a few hours tried to tell me "it didn't happen" and that I was "just making it up" and that if it did happen "I brought it on myself" for the clothes I wore and the friendlyness I showed to my coworkers (in other words, she called me a slut, which I was/am not...) She tried to turn it around & tell me that I should just get over it & stop trying to get attention. I took all of that to heart & did start to blame myself, even though I had no reason to take any blame at all. I told my boyfriend at the time what had happened (though left out many of the details, since he could only make out every third word I said between tears & sobs) and he told me I should just "drink myself out of my misery" and get on with life. I've hurt several people because of the pain that was inflicted onto my emotions--physically hurt my partner because he "got too close" or "touched me in the wrong spot" or just because of the cologne he was wearing that day or the way he had styled his hair. It's really not all about "well you didn't get knocked up or beat down, so there's nothing to 'haunt' you." I know I'm really rambly right now about this, but it really is a hard subject to speak on.

I admire those female friends of yours who claim to be "over" the rapes that they experienced. I can almost bet you that there are still times that they break down & have a shiver down their spine or start crying in their sleep. No I'm not saying all experiences are the same, but why should it be just "a way of life" for us women to have to deal with?

No, rape is not comparable to murder, it's comparable to theft, if you want to equate it to another crime and comparable to death, when it happens to you or someone very close to you. A person breaks into your soul & tries to steal something from you--more than just sexual "pleasures"--he takes your soul, your will to go on, and kills off a part of you. Obviously, you've luckily not had to experience a sister, daughter or girlfriend/wife/lover (or even yourself) having to go through something similar, or you'd know what I'm talking about. When something like this happens, you go through the grieving steps similar to someone dieing...You never quite fully recover from it, and YES it does haunt you.

Guess I should be hit over the head repeatedly with a mallet, but whomever does the hitting will have to take breaks while I use a cheese grater on the jerkwad's testicles who ruined my life...

BlueDamsel
02-19-2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by thehoot79
I read a story about a couple that was crashed into by a drunk driver and the husband was killed, but the wife was in a coma and the driver only got something like 10 years. .

Uhh that would be vehicular manslaughter...
And so you're saying that someone who gets behind a wheel drunk is worse than someone who rapes another human being? That's a whole nother debate...

BigL1710
02-19-2004, 04:30 AM
THIS IS AN EDITORIAL FORM COLLEGEFOOTBALLNEWS.COM




If Rick Neuheisel can get fired for not being forthcoming about playing in a legal basketball pool and Mike Price can get canned for checking out a strip club, then Colorado head coach Gary Barnett has to be fired immediately for making a disgraceful situation even worse.

I've never been the biggest fan of Barnett with the way he conducted himself at the end of his Northwestern reign and with how he handled the current scandal when it first started, but I did cut him some slack under the belief that players, and that includes recruits, need to be responsible enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

It doesn't matter if there's an environment of lawlessness around a college football program; right is right and wrong is wrong and despite claims of immaturity, entitlement and other enabling excuses, the alleged parties should’ve known what was and wasn't criminal behavior. If the rape and sexual misconduct allegations are true, then those players and recruits are criminals. Period.

If it ended there, then it might have been excusable for Barnett to get a chance to change things around. Colorado initially did the right thing by keeping Barnett on double secret probation until all due investigating was complete, but now the situation has gotten too far out of hand for there not to be a coaching change.

Coaches can’t know everything at all times, but the current problems in Boulder are going beyond a bit of mere ignorance as Barnett has crossed the line from having issues with his players to being part of the problem himself. As bad as things were, they’ve gotten worse after Barnett fanned the flames and ruined all credibility to his claims of sensitivity to the program's issues.

Whether or not you believe that Barnett never knew of any impropriety among his players when it came to former CU kicker Katie Hnida during her time in Boulder, there’s no denying that he completely blew it with his disparaging comments about her in such a sensitive time.

"It was obvious Katie was not very good. She was awful," Barnett said. "Katie was not only a girl, she was terrible. OK? There's no other way to say it."

Fine. She could’ve been the worst kicker in the history of college football, but that has nothing to do with whether or not she was sexually harassed and raped by Barnett’s players. That he had the insensitivity to say anything negative about Hnida right now shows how he just doesn’t get it, and would lead to the conclusion that it was possible for a dangerous environment to fester under his tenure whether he knew it or not.

If he didn’t know that things were bad before the situation blew up, he should be fired for not having any control over his players and for his rules and discipline being totally ignored. If he did have some knowledge of the problems with Colorado football and did next to nothing about it, then he should be fired. Either way, his era must come to an end.

This whole nightmare has done almost irreparable damage to the image of the Colorado football program and the school, but it can be changed. School president Becky Hoffman would be totally right in starting anew and totally revamping the Colorado coaching staff. This can be fixed with time and an overall program change.

But how? Bill McCartney was a religious family man and a leader of the Promise Keepers, yet the program was a renegade outfit towards the end of his tenure. Neuheisel appeared to be a rising star, but he left Colorado with numerous NCAA violations. Barnett was supposed to be a disciplinarian, but that obviously didn't work. Is Colorado football unsalvageable? No, but the next coaching hire has to be perfect with record coming second to an ability to keep things clean.

The University of Colorado has to do something right now to try stop the bleeding. It has to show the world that it’s serious about change, and has to start fresh. Wins and losses on the football field are meaningless with the honor of a big-time academic institution at stake.

rascal
02-19-2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by jdslick
Pretty narrow minded stuff here. Maybe you should think before you post something.

I sure hope you never have to experience something as heinous as a rape.

I do believe that murders often receive a life sentence for murder and sometimes the death penalty. Forty to sixty year sentences are common for murder. I think that most prosecutors around the country would say that convicted rapists get too little time for their crime.

This has to be your best post thus far.

rascal
02-19-2004, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
what did he do wrong, say she couldnt kick? whats wrong with that, he probably would have said the same had she been a guy.


where did you get that quote lava?

LDB
02-19-2004, 08:09 AM
Hoot79-

Have a person that you are close to,say a wife or a friend, get raped and then come post until then keep your idiotic comments to yourself. If someone you are close to has been raped or been the victim of an attempted rape, then you would sing a different tune.

BlueDamsel
02-19-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by BigL1710
THIS IS AN EDITORIAL FORM COLLEGEFOOTBALLNEWS.COM
This whole nightmare has done almost irreparable damage to the image of the Colorado football program and the school, but it can be changed. School president Becky Hoffman would be totally right in starting anew and totally revamping the Colorado coaching staff. This can be fixed with time and an overall program change.

.

They needed to do a bit more research...
The president's name is Elizabeth aka "Betsy" Hoffman, not Becky...And if they're going to use Barnett as a scape goat, then she needs to go too. All she's done is try to screw up things that the student body has formed into tradition over the years.

bronco30
02-19-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
what did he do wrong, say she couldnt kick? whats wrong with that, he probably would have said the same had she been a guy.

its not what he said was wrong as u say she prolly was terrible but its when he said it....his program is the middle of a huge scandal this lady is filing a lawsuit bout being raped....n he comes out n says she was terrible she couldnt kick it through the uprights she wasnt respected by her team mates....dont u see how inapprioate n incenstive that sounds at this time n point of the scandal.....he'll prolly b fired bcuzz he let his mouth overload his A**....

BTW these stripper, escort recruiting parties happen all over ALOT of college campuses ive seen a few......

broncos4ever
02-19-2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by jdslick
Pretty narrow minded stuff here. Maybe you should think before you post something.

I sure hope you never have to experience something as heinous as a rape.

I do believe that murders often receive a life sentence for murder and sometimes the death penalty. Forty to sixty year sentences are common for murder. I think that most prosecutors around the country would say that convicted rapists get too little time for their crime.


I have not agreed with you on much JD, but this definitely I agree on.

Barnett has to take the blame for repeated offenses within his program. Just like when a college team wins a championship you praise the head coach, now when there have been criminal allegations charged you must blame the head coach.

Is Barnett a scapegoat? I don't think so. He did a very illogical thing when he said what he said about Katie. When your under fire you need to be careful of your comments. That would be like a boss of major company being investigated for sexual misconduct within is group and the person that is doing the accusing saying, "Well she was not a very good secretary anyway." What a rediculous statement. Just as rediculous and the statement Barnett made.

Now new allegations are coming out about a lady of the staff and Barnett telling her he would "stand by his player" if she took legal action about her rape.

At first this seemed like a witch hunt but now it seems like there is too much evidence coming out.

The Head Coach must take the blame just like a Boss of a major corporation would have to take the blame. As the old saying goes "the buck stops here".

With exalted authority you also have great responsiblity, and when you abuse the authority then you have consequences to pay.

Gary Barnett is now paying those consequences.


Rape is probably just as much henious crime as murder. It takes years to get over Rape and in my experience before working with computers as a youth counsellor, let me tell you the people that go through something like this are devistated and it is hard to put your life back together again. I have two daughters and I would never want them to go through an experience like that. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

Return of Lava
02-19-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by bronco30
its not what he said was wrong as u say she prolly was terrible but its when he said it....his program is the middle of a huge scandal this lady is filing a lawsuit bout being raped....n he comes out n says she was terrible she couldnt kick it through the uprights she wasnt respected by her team mates....dont u see how inapprioate n incenstive that sounds at this time n point of the scandal.....he'll prolly b fired bcuzz he let his mouth overload his A**....

BTW these stripper, escort recruiting parties happen all over ALOT of college campuses ive seen a few...... ok i see now, although i would first want to see the whole conversation cause i understand how barnett could be upset his reputation is on the line and then this girl comes out of nowhere and makes it worse. a reporter probably asked him a question pertaining to katie saying she was mistreated the whole time as a player or her skills as a player and if she was treated like a player or just a woman, and then barnett snapped on her, but yeah i think he should have picked his words better or kept his mouth shut. I think its bull about the recruiting parties cause CU was only voted like 9th most partiest university so what about the other 8 who have more wild parties for recruits?

ozzy_osbourne
02-19-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
ok i see now, although i would first want to see the whole conversation cause i understand how barnett could be upset his reputation is on the line and then this girl comes out of nowhere and makes it worse. a reporter probably asked him a question pertaining to katie saying she was mistreated the whole time as a player or her skills as a player and if she was treated like a player or just a woman, and then barnett snapped on her, but yeah i think he should have picked his words better or kept his mouth shut. I think its bull about the recruiting parties cause CU was only voted like 9th most partiest university so what about the other 8 who have more wild parties for recruits?

That is only part of the problem, one of his "former players" is accused and a report was filed and he comes out and says that he will support his player no matter what... so then if the palyer is found to be guilty then he is supporting the actions that the player took???

TXBRONC
02-19-2004, 11:00 AM
What he should have done is kept his mouth closed, and if the event is proven true then condemn the action and take the necessary disciplinary action. Since Barnett couldn't do that he should be canned.

orangenblue420
02-19-2004, 11:03 AM
He should be criminally charged and sent to jail, if he knew, which we all know he did, he was an accessory, plain and simple, and any of the kids that get convicted should have to pay for the schooling they received, on top of any criminal penalties, and give back their degrees, if they received them.....

rascal
02-19-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by jdslick
First, more than 5% of the college players receive a degree.

Getting back to the CU thing. Barnett has let his program get out of control. Nobody can tell me that he didn't know about any of this until now. If he claims he didn't know, he's a liar.

He wanted a winning program so badly, that he simply turned a blind eye to anything which would disrupt his chances.

He should either step down or be fired by the end of the week.

If you had read bcollins post and then mine you would realize what I was talking about. Bcollin said 95% of college players were not there for an education, I was saying I was one of the 5% who was there to play and get an education.

Upon further review I see that bcollin changed it, or I misread it, and it currently says 90% either way, it should have been apparent as to what I was referring to.

Return of Lava
02-19-2004, 07:31 PM
Why are we blaming the coach so suddenly? He didnt do the rape or he didnt hire the strippers at the party (well maybe but its not proven yet). I think the responsibility should be first placed on the students themselves, and that barnett or the authorities should take action on the students. If Katie would have told the coach, maybe he would have done something, instead she holds it in all this time and finally comes out with it, how is the coach supposed to know what happened to her 5 years ago when she didnt report it WHEN IT HAPPENED? I think people are jumping ont he coach to quickly, he may be the head coach who is responsible for his players, but the students are even MORE responsible for themselves dont you think?

BlueDamsel
02-19-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Why are we blaming the coach so suddenly? He didnt do the rape or he didnt hire the strippers at the party (well maybe but its not proven yet). I think the responsibility should be first placed on the students themselves, and that barnett or the authorities should take action on the students. If Katie would have told the coach, maybe he would have done something, instead she holds it in all this time and finally comes out with it, how is the coach supposed to know what happened to her 5 years ago when she didnt report it WHEN IT HAPPENED? I think people are jumping ont he coach to quickly, he may be the head coach who is responsible for his players, but the students are even MORE responsible for themselves dont you think?

Can I get an A-MEN!:cool:

bklynbronco
02-20-2004, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
i dont see the big deal with barnett saying the girl couldnt kick, maybe she just couldn't. I dont think it was sexist cause she was allowed to be on the team right? if she wasnt on the team, a lot of other people would have been like "he is so sexist he wouldn't let her on the team cause she is a girl" I believe the girl should have came out a long time ago when she was actually raped, instead if waiting 5 years later or so. not saying she is lying, but after waiting 5 years, why all of a sudden step up?


lava what does her ability to play have anything to do were her being raped? so does that mean that the 3rd and fouth stingers on the team get abused too? all this stuff is going on and he doesn't know anything? the insensentivity about the comment is that he made the excuse of her being a female and her being a awful kicker being as a reason why her fellow teammates didn't respect her and thus why maybe just maybe their might have been a incident. if that's the case then he needs to be tossed.
if she was that awful why keep her on the team? if he was trying to so call protect her then he shoud have kept someone around her just to be safe since she was the first woman on a college football team.

bklynbronco
02-20-2004, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Why are we blaming the coach so suddenly? He didnt do the rape or he didnt hire the strippers at the party (well maybe but its not proven yet). I think the responsibility should be first placed on the students themselves, and that barnett or the authorities should take action on the students. If Katie would have told the coach, maybe he would have done something, instead she holds it in all this time and finally comes out with it, how is the coach supposed to know what happened to her 5 years ago when she didnt report it WHEN IT HAPPENED? I think people are jumping ont he coach to quickly, he may be the head coach who is responsible for his players, but the students are even MORE responsible for themselves dont you think?


tell the coach? look how he reacted right now. this is not the first time he made the same sort of comments about katie. he didn't want her on the team from the start and he already admits then he was just trying to be nice by keeping her around. do you think he would done much if she would have just come up and said a fellow team mate just raped me? are you being realistic? he brings up her ability to play during a rape charge does that mean that if you suck at your job you deserve to get abused? their are seven alleged rape charges against his team and that's including katie's charge. do you thing it's just coincidental? hiring hookers to recruit high school players and now these rape charges and him or his staff didn't know anything? cmon who are you fooling. you don't think that sort of stuff doesn't get back to the coach? one incident or two incident maybe but all those accounts and he had no clue? when your a coach of a college athletic team your also a teacher what were these kids learning from his actions or non actions? if he didn't know these things weren't going on then he should be known as Mr. Magoo cause this is too much stuff for him not to know. if he did know but failed to react then he's just as accountable for the problems going on there.

bklynbronco
02-20-2004, 04:48 AM
I think its bull about the recruiting parties cause CU was only voted like 9th most partiest university so what about the other 8 who have more wild parties for recruits?



being 9th might have been the reason why they hired the hookers ,lava. your talking 9th out how many colleges in the country? i think that's a good finish thinking that it beat out over 100 other partying colleges.
__________________

bronco30
02-20-2004, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
I think its bull about the recruiting parties cause CU was only voted like 9th most partiest university so what about the other 8 who have more wild parties for recruits?



being 9th might have been the reason why they hired the hookers ,lava. your talking 9th out how many colleges in the country? i think that's a good finish thinking that it beat out over 100 other partying colleges.
__________________

being ranked 9th or 1st its basically all the same these recruiting parties go on in the 25th ranked school n have 4 many many years it may slow down now 4 a lil bit but they'll never stop...hell i saw recruits show up meet the president, chancellor the AD n the coach w/ their parents there n then that night some player or host will take um out 2 these parties it goes on all over...

n the coach may never know but that dont matter everything comes back to him hes responsible 4 "his" program hell the president or chancellor is not gunna b blamed they're goin to go after the coach or coaches 1st.....its prolly not right but its how it works....

bklynbronco
02-20-2004, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by bronco30
being ranked 9th or 1st its basically all the same these recruiting parties go on in the 25th ranked school n have 4 many many years it may slow down now 4 a lil bit but they'll never stop...hell i saw recruits show up meet the president, chancellor the AD n the coach w/ their parents there n then that night some player or host will take um out 2 these parties it goes on all over...

n the coach may never know but that dont matter everything comes back to him hes responsible 4 "his" program hell the president or chancellor is not gunna b blamed they're goin to go after the coach or coaches 1st.....its prolly not right but its how it works....

your right B30, that doesn't excuse the AD or the college president but the visible face that represent CU authority is the head coach, so he takes much of the blame cause he's with the kids and assistant coaches more.

broncos4ever
02-20-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
Why are we blaming the coach so suddenly? He didnt do the rape or he didnt hire the strippers at the party (well maybe but its not proven yet). I think the responsibility should be first placed on the students themselves, and that barnett or the authorities should take action on the students. If Katie would have told the coach, maybe he would have done something, instead she holds it in all this time and finally comes out with it, how is the coach supposed to know what happened to her 5 years ago when she didnt report it WHEN IT HAPPENED? I think people are jumping ont he coach to quickly, he may be the head coach who is responsible for his players, but the students are even MORE responsible for themselves dont you think?

True college students should be responsible for their own actions.

From what I have read Gary Barnett has tried to instill in his players to do the right thing. I do not fault him for that and I don't think that is the main issue at hand here.

Here are some thoughts...

What if you are a young lady and you had too much to drink but you did not want to have sex and you were raped, you went to the coach and told him about it and he discouraged you from reporting it or questioned you about it until you thought that nothing would happen if you did report it? Would that be the kind of atmosphere that you would want your daughter or sister to go to?

What if the coaching and athletic staff always tried to cover-up or make things hard on the people that reported things as in sexual conduct, or looked the other way in the case of Katies father going to Gary Barnett, would that be the atmosphere that you would want your daughter or sister to go to?

I think the reason why Gary Barnett is being the "fall guy" and maybe deserved, is because when he heard about incidents he either turned a "deaf ear" to them, backed up his football players blindly, or did not handle the investigation properly of those accused.

College coaches get fired all the time and do you think he now could be affective in Colorado as a football coach? Do you think he would have the respect of other professors in the college after these incidents? Would have be effective in recruiting high school players?

I don't think so.

The coach must take some of the blame, because he is responsible for the discipline of his players after they have been accused or been found guilty.

Gary Barnett did not do that.

Jared
02-20-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by FutureMrsPortis
They needed to do a bit more research...
The president's name is Elizabeth aka "Betsy" Hoffman, not Becky...And if they're going to use Barnett as a scape goat, then she needs to go too. All she's done is try to screw up things that the student body has formed into tradition over the years.

Not being from Colorado, I could give a damn what happens to the football program at CU. I am saddened that this sort of thing happens, but I have no sympathy or hatred toward that school.


But I do have to say, that just because something is a 'student body" tradition, doesn't mean its approrpiate. Without knowing exactly what you are talking about, I can't say who is the party with their heart in the right place. Traditions aren't always the right thing to do. But some school presidents do get over zealous and go on a power trip.

But mostly, whatever the truth is, it is clear that Barnett either truly has no control over his players, or he turns a blind eye and doesn't want to see potential problems. Going on Larry King Live sure seems like he is worried more about public opinion than he is about figuring out who is responsible and holding them (and himself if necessary) responsible.

So no matter what happens, regardless of how anyone feels about what he said, he needs to go. Not because he is an insensitive lout (which is boorish, but not criminal or an NCAA violation), but because the university will always have to deal with this as long as he is an employee of the school. And that is a disservice not only to the young men and women who compete in athletics at the school, but also to the other 90% of students there who just want to get an education. The school can't focus on what it needs to if it is spending money and time on this issue.

Return of Lava
02-20-2004, 10:04 AM
ok brook let me ask, if you were a coach, and you had a girl on your team cause she tried out and you didnt want to cut her nd look sexist, so you let her play. she was bad but it didnt matter. so while she is on te team she gets raped, she never tells you, how do you know? you dont. 5 years later you are on the hot seat cause your players are doing illegal stuff(like pretty much ALL college athletes do) drinking and such and ladies are there stripping cause theyt are drunk too, you are not even there you dont hang with your students like that, you're the coach. so then you get on the news for throwing illegal recruiting parties, you didnt even know they had that recruiting party. then that girl you coached 5 years ago comes out and says, "i was raped". remember, she never told you, so you never knew. she also comes out and says the team didnt respect her as a player and always treated her sexist just cause she was a girl, which is not the case. they treated her like a kicker who wasnt good and you told the media that. then you realize how the media twists words and the next day the paper comes out and says
Originally posted by bklynbronco
tell the coach? look how he reacted right now. this is not the first time he made the same sort of comments about katie. he didn't want her on the team from the start and he already admits then he was just trying to be nice by keeping her around. do you think he would done much if she would have just come up and said a fellow team mate just raped me? he brings up her ability to play during a rape charge does that mean that if you suck at your job you deserve to get abused? their are seven alleged rape charges against his team and that's including katie's charge. do you thing it's just coincidental? hiring hookers to recruit high school players and now these rape charges and him or his staff didn't know anything? cmon who are you fooling. you don't think that sort of stuff doesn't get back to the coach? one incident or two incident maybe but all those accounts and he had no clue? when your a coach of a college athletic team your also a teacher what were these kids learning from his actions or non actions? if he didn't know these things weren't going on then he should be known as Mr. Magoo cause this is too much stuff for him not to know. if he did know but failed to react then he's just as accountable for the problems going on there.
Brook the point is, maybe the coach DIDN'T know his players were doing this behind his back, also, i'm sure EVERY college has those kinds of parties but they dont get caught. Players should be responsible for themselves, they shouldnt be let off the hook just cause they are in college athletics and have a coach to take the rap for them.

Return of Lava
02-20-2004, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
I think its bull about the recruiting parties cause CU was only voted like 9th most partiest university so what about the other 8 who have more wild parties for recruits?



being 9th might have been the reason why they hired the hookers ,lava. your talking 9th out how many colleges in the country? i think that's a good finish thinking that it beat out over 100 other partying colleges.
__________________ no, im saying there are 8 oter schools that party MORE than CU, whyarent they on the news also, its just CU and it goes to show that other schools do the exact same but they just dont get caught so people should stop acting like CU is the only school that has strippers, every drunken woman is liable to strip at ANY party at ANY school.

Jared
02-20-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
ok brook let me ask, if you were a coach, and you had a girl on your team cause she tried out and you didnt want to cut her nd look sexist, so you let her play. she was bad but it didnt matter. so while she is on te team she gets raped, she never tells you, how do you know? you dont. 5 years later you are on the hot seat cause your players are doing illegal stuff(like pretty much ALL college athletes do) drinking and such and ladies are there stripping cause theyt are drunk too, you are not even there you dont hang with your students like that, you're the coach. so then you get on the news for throwing illegal recruiting parties, you didnt even know they had that recruiting party. then that girl you coached 5 years ago comes out and says, "i was raped". remember, she never told you, so you never knew. she also comes out and says the team didnt respect her as a player and always treated her sexist just cause she was a girl, which is not the case. they treated her like a kicker who wasnt good and you told the media that. then you realize how the media twists words and the next day the paper comes out and says
Brook the point is, maybe the coach DIDN'T know his players were doing this behind his back, also, i'm sure EVERY college has those kinds of parties but they dont get caught. Players should be responsible for themselves, they shouldnt be let off the hook just cause they are in college athletics and have a coach to take the rap for them.


Lava,

I think you are missing the thrust of the charges brought against the school in terms of the NCAA. You are right that Barnett probably didn't know that certain players were bringing girls to have sex with recruits. That is the whole point. It's called "lack of institutional control". Regardless of whether Katie Hndia (spelling?) was the best or worse kicker on the team, that has NOTHING to do with the other charges, or her accusation of rape. (I am not going to get into a whole discussion about PTSD and why so many women refuse to press charges, its another debate entirely). Her quality of play at her position was not a causal effect for her alleged assault. Perhaps she was not aware that kickers in general are harrassed more that say, I dunno, other special teamers. But the alleged exposing of genitals and throwing footballs full speed at her are beyond anything that I have ever heard of or seen at college athletics.

When I played basketball my one year of college, I did my fair share of freshman grunt duty, but I can guarantee you that if some clown had chucked a ball at my head intentionally, with velocity, not only would I have filed an official compliant with the coach and AD, you can be damn sure that if he injured me, I would have gone to the police. That's not hazing, that's assault. There is a difference. I am sure the young lady in question was afraid to do so because she was afraid her position on the team would be compromised, and she probably worked so hard just to get a tryout. The whole gender thing really thows a wrench into this.

But I repeat, Barnett's insensitive comments are not why he should be let go. His lack of knowledge of his player's actions is why he should be let go. And his feelings for her ability as a player should have had no business entering an answer to a question about whether or not she was raped. They are seperate and distinct issues.

I don't buy this "she was terrible" crap. He was the one who didn't cut her. So by saying she was terrible, he is either acknowledging that she was one of the best tow or three that tried out (which means they must have needed seriosu help in that department), or he let her on the team as a publicity stunt. Either way, I think he is full of it. If she sucked that bad, cut her. No one would have accused him of sexism. If she was the least accurate kicker that tried out, then she should have been cut. Plain and simple. Now the young gentlemen who were cut in favor if her can argue that they were cut due to their gender (he wanted a woman for publicity, regardeless of her skills) , not their abilities. See what kind of can of worms Barnett has opened?

Jared
02-20-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
no, im saying there are 8 oter schools that party MORE than CU, whyarent they on the news also, its just CU and it goes to show that other schools do the exact same but they just dont get caught so people should stop acting like CU is the only school that has strippers, every drunken woman is liable to strip at ANY party at ANY school.

Well, its possible that some or none of those schools have football programs or if they do, use the strippers as a recruiting tool.

I am sure some of them do, but lets see this "party school" list first. If I see MIT or some other non-football/sports school on there, your argument is shot.


It doesn't matter what everyone else does, only you are responsible for your actions. You are not suddenly not responsible just because everyone else is doing it. Try that excuse the next time you get a speeding ticket and see how far THAT gets you in court.


Also, just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean you should be doing it in the first place. And when you get caught, take some responsibility.

bronco30
02-20-2004, 11:39 AM
i keep readin some of the posts here sayin parties were illegal (in a sense yes) or it happens all over (which it does).... i say illegal in a sense bcuzz in the recruits papers it says no excessive entertainment what does that mean 1 night out to the movies or 2 parties the NCAA head di**s are a joke....

as the case in CO guys would call places such as hardbodies entertainment n girls would show up to parties mostly off campus n the university "would not know" this goes on everywhere the NCAA i predict soon will issue a statement soon or make "changes" in recruits trips to try n cover there a**es....

its as common as boosters n alumni givin players money n nobody says anything...but its illegal 4 a player 2 go speak at a school get a dinner paid for and a car ride back to school unbeleivable.....im sure some of u guys have been on/off campuses n seen "star" players drivin brand new vehicles or livin in a big apt./house etc etc....its not bcuzz there workin or have rich parents n u know 1/2 of um dont go 2 class either...i no this 1st hand its crazy

Jared
02-20-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by bronco30
i keep readin some of the posts here sayin parties were illegal (in a sense yes) or it happens all over (which it does).... i say illegal in a sense bcuzz in the recruits papers it says no excessive entertainment what does that mean 1 night out to the movies or 2 parties the NCAA head di**s are a joke....

as the case in CO guys would call places such as hardbodies entertainment n girls would show up to parties mostly off campus n the university "would not know" this goes on everywhere the NCAA i predict soon will issue a statement soon or make "changes" in recruits trips to try n cover there a**es....

its as common as boosters n alumni givin players money n nobody says anything...but its illegal 4 a player 2 go speak at a school get a dinner paid for and a car ride back to school unbeleivable.....im sure some of u guys have been on/off campuses n seen "star" players drivin brand new vehicles or livin in a big apt./house etc etc....its not bcuzz there workin or have rich parents n u know 1/2 of um dont go 2 class either...i no this 1st hand its crazy


While all of what you say is true, its not the point.

Yes, the rules are crazy and archaic.

Yes, lots of other schools do this.

But once you get caught with your hands in the cookie jar, don't say that it was cookies fault. Take responsibility.

And don't confuse a students talent (or lack thereof) with an accusation of rape.

And get rid of players who break rules and encourgae others to do so.

Adn work with the NCAA to figure out a way to change the rules so that the abuse isn't a lucrative alternative. That way the crappy rules are no longer an issue. See my other post (in this thread I think), about players being allowed to work or have jobs or do SOMETHING for an income, so that money isn't so tight that they have to worry about whether or not they can go out to dinner with someone (are they a booster? An alumni? Is this against the rules?). And then people wonder why the athletes feel separate from the rest of the student body. They have to isolate themselves because of the dumb rules.

bklynbronco
02-20-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
ok brook let me ask, if you were a coach, and you had a girl on your team cause she tried out and you didnt want to cut her nd look sexist, so you let her play. she was bad but it didnt matter. so while she is on te team she gets raped, she never tells you, how do you know? you dont. 5 years later you are on the hot seat cause your players are doing illegal stuff(like pretty much ALL college athletes do) drinking and such and ladies are there stripping cause theyt are drunk too, you are not even there you dont hang with your students like that, you're the coach. so then you get on the news for throwing illegal recruiting parties, you didnt even know they had that recruiting party. then that girl you coached 5 years ago comes out and says, "i was raped". remember, she never told you, so you never knew. she also comes out and says the team didnt respect her as a player and always treated her sexist just cause she was a girl, which is not the case. they treated her like a kicker who wasnt good and you told the media that. then you realize how the media twists words and the next day the paper comes out and says
Brook the point is, maybe the coach DIDN'T know his players were doing this behind his back, also, i'm sure EVERY college has those kinds of parties but they dont get caught. Players should be responsible for themselves, they shouldnt be let off the hook just cause they are in college athletics and have a coach to take the rap for them.


first off lava each coach is different. equal try outs for everybody man or woman. i wouldn't discriminate against anybody but they would have to be treated the same as anybody else. if she was a walk on that's almost another strike against you yet katie from what i get didn't miss a extra point(27) or none of her FG attempts (3)in her senior year at her high school so she had some skills. i think that's why she was let in to even try out. at the same time if she didn't make the requirements she would get cut like anybody else. i as a coach at the same time would encourage her to try out next year and i would give her the same oppurtunity. second thier would be no way that a player can't come up to the coach and discuss any personal problem with another player,student or even professor that any player has. you have to have a open door policy and the great coaches are the ones that takes time out to hear and deal with all thier players problems. Rape is a serious accusation and i as the coach(main authority figure on the team)can't close my eyes to that. now if she changes colleges and four years later she comes out and accuses a player on my team of raping her and i didn't know about cause she never brought it up, i would investigate the accusations. i wouldn't try to discredit her in the media by saying she sucked as a kicker and she's a girl and male players only respect other players whether they are old or young, male or female only if they played good. that statement has nothing to do with her being raped. IF you wanna say she slept around or was a whore like most defense attorneys do in rape cases in court yeah i can see that happening but discrediting her ability as kicker on national TV like if she deserve to get raped because she was a bad kicker? you see what i am getting at,lava? her ability and the rape accusation do not match. if the alleged rape happened the person should be punished but if thier were instances the she tried telling him or an assistant coach and played deaf,dumb and blind he should be fired.because a woman gets drunk at a party doesn't mean she deserves to get raped.most coaches know somewhat what's going on like hazing practices and special blanket parties. they know but think of it as tradition in some cases. he's not that ignorant.

Return of Lava
02-20-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Jared
Well, its possible that some or none of those schools have football programs or if they do, use the strippers as a recruiting tool.

I am sure some of them do, but lets see this "party school" list first. If I see MIT or some other non-football/sports school on there, your argument is shot.


It doesn't matter what everyone else does, only you are responsible for your actions. You are not suddenly not responsible just because everyone else is doing it. Try that excuse the next time you get a speeding ticket and see how far THAT gets you in court.


Also, just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean you should be doing it in the first place. And when you get caught, take some responsibility. Jared, it was a long time ago i seen this list, im talkin years so i dont have the website cause i saw it on TV so long ago, so you just have to believe me on that. Tennessee and texas were above colorado, but thats besides the point. forget about the list cause you probably dont believe it anyway, the point is, you said what i was saying, let me remind you:

"It doesn't matter what everyone else does, only you are responsible for your actions. You are not suddenly not responsible just because everyone else is doing it. "

Isnt that what i was saying with the football players? whats the coach go to do with the players/college students private and socilal life? A coach cant have "institutional control" at the big college campuses, he is not reponsible for thier private lives, only football related stuff. I dont think the coach was wrong for not knowing, he was minding his business like he should. The PLAYERS are at fault for raping/abusing the woman, not the coach, its not the coaches responsibility to follow the players everywhere to make sure they dont rape anybody, those kids are in COLLEGE, they have no parents and are allowed do what they want, they should take the consequences for their own actions.

Return of Lava
02-20-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by bklynbronco
first off lava each coach is different. equal try outs for everybody man or woman. i wouldn't discriminate against anybody but they would have to be treated the same as anybody else. if she was a walk on that's almost another strike against you yet katie from what i get didn't miss a extra point(27) or none of her FG attempts (3)in her senior year at her high school so she had some skills. i think that's why she was let in to even try out. at the same time if she didn't make the requirements she would get cut like anybody else. i as a coach at the same time would encourage her to try out next year and i would give her the same oppurtunity. second thier would be no way that a player can't come up to the coach and discuss any personal problem with another player,student or even professor that any player has. you have to have a open door policy and the great coaches are the ones that takes time out to hear and deal with all thier players problems. Rape is a serious accusation and i as the coach(main authority figure on the team)can't close my eyes to that. now if she changes colleges and four years later she comes out and accuses a player on my team of raping her and i didn't know about cause she never brought it up, i would investigate the accusations. i wouldn't try to discredit her in the media by saying she sucked as a kicker and she's a girl and male players only respect other players whether they are old or young, male or female only if they played good. that statement has nothing to do with her being raped. IF you wanna say she slept around or was a whore like most defense attorneys do in rape cases in court yeah i can see that happening but discrediting her ability as kicker on national TV like if she deserve to get raped because she was a bad kicker? you see what i am getting at,lava? her ability and the rape accusation do not match. if the alleged rape happened the person should be punished but if thier were instances the she tried telling him or an assistant coach and played deaf,dumb and blind he should be fired.because a woman gets drunk at a party doesn't mean she deserves to get raped.most coaches know somewhat what's going on like hazing practices and special blanket parties. they know but think of it as tradition in some cases. he's not that ignorant. I understand that if barnett KNEW about the rape and didnt do nothin, he should definitely be fored, i havent seen anything to lead me to think he knew and didnt care though. IF that girl waited all this time to come out, i dont think she would have told the coach, cause you dont tell a coach somehting then wait 5 years before you bring it back up. Until proven otherwise, Katie didnt tell the coach, so the caoch cant know, im almost positive he had an open door policy cause all coaches have to communicate, and Katie just didnt report it(from what i know now) Now, about the statements Barnett made about Katie's skills, what i was trying to get you to see is that WE dont know the whole conversation. I'm sure Barnett isnt that dumb that he would say "Katie was raped cause she was a bad kicker" it had to be something specific the reporter asked him to get him to say that. Remember portis saying the media "suckered" him into saying something? I give Barnett the benefit of the doubt that he didnt mean to make and excuse for Katie being raped. i still think that the coach had no knowlegde and he shouldnt if the girl never tells him how is he supposed to know? Even if he knew the football players were having a party, why would he attend? He is a dang coach, a coach doesnt party with his players. It is unfortunate that the party turned into the party she was raped at, but i can easily understand that Barnett had no knowledge of the rape until 5 years later when she finally told. If we find out later that he did know but did nothing to stop it, then yeah i say get rid of his a$$, but i havent heard that yet.

Jared
02-21-2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava


Isnt that what i was saying with the football players? whats the coach go to do with the players/college students private and socilal life? A coach cant have "institutional control" at the big college campuses, he is not reponsible for thier private lives, only football related stuff. I dont think the coach was wrong for not knowing, he was minding his business like he should. The PLAYERS are at fault for raping/abusing the woman, not the coach, its not the coaches responsibility to follow the players everywhere to make sure they dont rape anybody, those kids are in COLLEGE, they have no parents and are allowed do what they want, they should take the consequences for their own actions.

Nice sentiment, but under current NCAA rules, incorrect.

The coach has to be held accountable if his players are breaking the rules. If you don't like that, write to the NCAA in Indianapolis.

Besides, his whole "Well, I am backing my player 100%" comment upon being told of the rape accusation is off the wall. If his player is found guilty in court, then what?

Its a sad situation, but since head coaches are given the responsibility for the program, its assistantcoaches, and its players, when thinsg like this happen, he has to stand up and say "While I was unaware of these actions, and did not encourage them, I will find out who is responsible, and work to improve the program. This is my responsibility as a coach." He didn't do that. Instead, he starts moaning about how horrible a player Katie Hnida was, and says that media misquotes him?

Return of Lava
02-21-2004, 12:39 PM
While all these opinions are good ones, its obvious what the deal is. c'mon guys these college kids are 18+ years of age, dont you think they should start being responsible now? If not now then when? if not them then who? the parents? I go to college too, and some college freshmen are parents themselves, who fault is THAT?. I think everybody in college is responsible for they damn sevles. Nobody should follow them around to make sure they dont do bad things, that's crazy! Are you gonna assign 1 teacher to every student? Those students are out in the real world as far as noyt being told what to do no more, they are grown people now. it was that grown person who forced himself into Katie while his parents were 500 miles away taking a bubble bath. While it may be true that the parent didnt have the "talk" with their kid, the kids know that junk is wrong. Matter of fact, why are we using the word kid anyway, they are 1 or 2 or 3 years away from being a full-pledged adult. Kid is for middle schoolers and lower. The coach might be blamed but he shouldnt be, he is less responsible than the parent is, how many times have you seen a coach raise a person from 19 to adulthood? Its rare. Instilling right and wrong should come at ages 3-10 or whatever. not college freshman to college graduate. If a player is wild when he gets to college, he might act right when around coach, but being with coach is a part time thing in college. that leaves a lot of time to mess up and there is nothing the coach can do about it, its not a coach fault. Now after saying that, I learned a few new things about what barnett said. i didnt know he said he was gonna stand behind his player 100% no matter what, i think that was the wrong thing to say. At the same time i understand why he said it, wouldnt you support your player until proven guilty? If you assume the player did it and later find he was innocent, there is no way to get back the bond from that player cause you were so quick to blame him off a 5 year old accusation. I think Barnett has no real reason to be fired yet. Again, if we find out that Katie DID go up to Barett and TOLD him she was raped/abused and he did nothing but turn his back, then i say he should definitely be gone, so if any of you actually KNOW(not think, but know) of that happening, let me know, but dont assume he did that cause its not fair to the guy.

Jared
02-22-2004, 11:53 AM
Just letting everyone know I am merging this with the "Gary Barnett" thread, since it seems that it is covering pretty much the same ground.

broncos_chick
02-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
Unfortunately for you, there are some of us who can recognize that your word isn't really even worth raw iron ore.

Good ol' Galena D. Oilslick ... oops, that's lead ore. Maybe I was thinking of pig iron? :)

broncos_chick
02-22-2004, 06:15 PM
Splurt and splutter all you want, Oilslick. It won't do you a bit of good, nor will it increase your importance, validity or believability.

broncos_chick
02-22-2004, 08:20 PM
Thanks, bc. Much appreciated. :)

It's always amusing to see people like Galena-for-Brains rant and rave and practically pinch a loaf trying to think of a suitable slam. Poor sloth apparently doesn't even remember that I've had him on Ignore for weeks.

Jared
02-23-2004, 07:48 AM
How about an actual post on the topic?

Jared
02-23-2004, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Jared
How about an actual post on the topic?


My impression of a broken record:

How about an actual post on the topic?

orangenblue420
02-23-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by thehoot79
This whole rape fiasco with CU is just fuggin' ridiculous. The media makes it seem like CU is the only school that these types of things happen at. Give me a friggin' break man. Unfortunately, women are groped and raped at colleges all over the United States not just CU. I love how these people come out to the media 4 years after something happens and claim how it's "haunted" their lives and that it's "affected" them forever. Christ, get a backbone OKAY!!! I've met women that have been raped and they've dealt with it in their minds and realized that it happened and nothing can change it. Rapists are just wastes of skin, it's part of life. Regardless, I have no sympathy for these women that make their rapes public years and years after the fact. All they want is media attention. I'm sorry, but get over it, you were raped 4 years ago, DEAL WITH IT!!! In no way do I condone rape, but when these people come out all these years after the fact and say that it still affects them I just want to vomit. OK, she wasn't beaten, she wasn't knocked up, how has it affected her? It's affected her mentally that's all; become a stronger person for god's sake. We've all had tragedy happen in our lives and had mishaps that have caused scars and pain, but this country seriously has an obsession with rape. There's something wrong when rapists spend more time in jail then murderers. And anybody who says rape is as bad as murder, ought to be beaten repeatedly with a wooden mallet. Anyways, I'm done ranting. Again, just my opinion.

WOW - WOW - WOW

How can you say some of those things and on top of all that you are making me agree with jd!cklicks response to you - i can only hate you double for that :D

First, are you a man? If so, keep your opinion on rape to yourself (i know i will catch some slack for that, but WTF do I care)

Second, have you ever been raped? If not, again, keep your opinion about how bad being raped is to yourself. I wont even comment on it, cause, thank god, it has not happened to me, therefore, I could NOT even begin to fathom how I would feel or how I would deal with it....

Rape not being as bad as murder......hmmm, how bout they both classify as truly heinous violent crimes and both should be punished to the utmost extent of the law, but oh wait, our jails are too overcrowded with non-violent drug offenders, so lets let some of those murderers and rapists out to make room for those damn pot heads, cause we all know how violent they are...

That is the real problem, not murderers who do less time than rapists, but any violent offender who does less time than a non-violent offender......

As far as this scandel goes, and this is partly to you lava, yes it happens in more than one college im sure, but that doesnt make it right -

As far as the chick coming out now, it only half of what she said about what she went through is true, i cant say as i blame her for keeping her mouth shut, as far as her sucking, well then why did they put her on the team to begin with???

Personally, I dont feel women should try to compete in men's sports - men are physically stonger, faster and more athletic (for the most part, there are some she men and he women, but thats neither here nor there, im speaking in general). And if they do try to compete and want to be on a mans team, you better develop a pretty thick skin, you cant expect to be a pioneer and have an easy go of it - thats just the way it works, cant take the heat get out the kitchen....

Return of Lava
02-23-2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
While all these opinions are good ones, its obvious what the deal is. c'mon guys these college kids are 18+ years of age, dont you think they should start being responsible now? If not now then when? if not them then who? the parents? I go to college too, and some college freshmen are parents themselves, who fault is THAT?. I think everybody in college is responsible for they damn sevles. Nobody should follow them around to make sure they dont do bad things, that's crazy! Are you gonna assign 1 teacher to every student? Those students are out in the real world as far as noyt being told what to do no more, they are grown people now. it was that grown person who forced himself into Katie while his parents were 500 miles away taking a bubble bath. While it may be true that the parent didnt have the "talk" with their kid, the kids know that junk is wrong. Matter of fact, why are we using the word kid anyway, they are 1 or 2 or 3 years away from being a full-pledged adult. Kid is for middle schoolers and lower. The coach might be blamed but he shouldnt be, he is less responsible than the parent is, how many times have you seen a coach raise a person from 19 to adulthood? Its rare. Instilling right and wrong should come at ages 3-10 or whatever. not college freshman to college graduate. If a player is wild when he gets to college, he might act right when around coach, but being with coach is a part time thing in college. that leaves a lot of time to mess up and there is nothing the coach can do about it, its not a coach fault. Now after saying that, I learned a few new things about what barnett said. i didnt know he said he was gonna stand behind his player 100% no matter what, i think that was the wrong thing to say. At the same time i understand why he said it, wouldnt you support your player until proven guilty? If you assume the player did it and later find he was innocent, there is no way to get back the bond from that player cause you were so quick to blame him off a 5 year old accusation. I think Barnett has no real reason to be fired yet. Again, if we find out that Katie DID go up to Barett and TOLD him she was raped/abused and he did nothing but turn his back, then i say he should definitely be gone, so if any of you actually KNOW(not think, but know) of that happening, let me know, but dont assume he did that cause its not fair to the guy.

orangenblue420
02-23-2004, 03:43 PM
I see what you are saying Lava, BUT the coach is responsible for the behavior of his players while they are in the locker room, on the field and during the games.....and a lot of the accusations from the chick kicker occurred during those times, you cant honestly believe that he didnt see the way she was mistreated, please......and I would feel that way about anyone who was mistreated in the same way, whether it be a female, or a handicapped person, or a waterboy or towel boy, etc. there is no excuse for a coach to let his players behave in such a manner. The school is responsible for teaching those kids something and if he turned his back to their behavior, its no different than a parent doing the same, its unacceptable. I mean I could go on and on, but its already been done to death in this thread - the school, the coach and the players are all responsible in some way, shape or form, period!!!!!

Return of Lava
02-23-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
I see what you are saying Lava, BUT the coach is responsible for the behavior of his players while they are in the locker room, on the field and during the games.....and a lot of the accusations from the chick kicker occurred during those times, you cant honestly believe that he didnt see the way she was mistreated, please......and I would feel that way about anyone who was mistreated in the same way, whether it be a female, or a handicapped person, or a waterboy or towel boy, etc. there is no excuse for a coach to let his players behave in such a manner. The school is responsible for teaching those kids something and if he turned his back to their behavior, its no different than a parent doing the same, its unacceptable. I mean I could go on and on, but its already been done to death in this thread - the school, the coach and the players are all responsible in some way, shape or form, period!!!!! i thought the rape was at a party? i dont knw about the other accusations that are going on, all i know about is the rape. if that happened off fottball grounds, there is nothing the coach should know, its their personal life.

orangenblue420
02-23-2004, 04:07 PM
Yes, BUT the fact that he, the coach, let them get away with mistreating her, may have led to her being raped - if he had nipped it in the bud, her mistreatment, from day one, it may not have gone that far - alot of them are still mentally immature, and they push and push to see how far they can go, hell we all do, even when we "mature", we tend to push the limits to see what we can get away with and when we get in trouble we stop. Had they gotten in trouble for mistreating her from the beginning, they may have never even have thought to take it that far....and again, this is assuming what she says is true....

Jared
02-23-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
I must have missed your analysis of my FIRST post on the topic.

I was too busy addressing the idiot remarks of the Niners fan who wouldn't know foundation if he were casted in one, but I don't recall seeing your reply as yet.

I have had some thoughts; they are posted in this thread.

But I don't recall posting that in regards to any of your posts. I meant it as more of a general post. I always quote anything I am directly responding to. Helps avoid confusion.:D

Jared
02-23-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
i thought the rape was at a party? i dont knw about the other accusations that are going on, all i know about is the rape. if that happened off fottball grounds, there is nothing the coach should know, its their personal life.


Lava, this flies in the face of everything I have ever been taught about being a member of a team. If we do anything, ANYTHING, on or off the court (or field in this case), it can hurt the team by being a distraction. This is preached from high school on up. So how can a coach possibly just say, "When you are not on my time, I don't give a damn what you do." I doubt that was his recruiting pitch. If it was, then he talked to some VERY brave parents. If he DOES believe that, but pitches something else, then he has lied to these young men's parents. Either way, I can't possibly imagine coach thinking that is an acceptable policy, if for no other selfless reason, they don't want to lose their jobs.

Jared
02-23-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
See, Jared?



Uh, for a person in law, you don't seem familiar with the concept that rape is a genderless crime. I'm sure you were thinking that women are the only ones who can be victims, but there are guys out there who have been raped...both by women AND by men.

Aside from that...I wasn't actually going to give you FLACK, because your disclaimer shows you at least acknowledge that you've thought of it before you posted. :)



Two things:
1. You'd feel DAMN stupid if he had been, now wouldn't you? Watch what questions you ask if you're not prepared for all the answers, n'est ce pas?
2. No sooner do you say "I wont even comment on it..." than out comes:



That seems like a lot to say on a subject you weren't going to comment on. :)



That's not what he was saying, and you know it.
He's using the same argument Miami fans use when we remind them that they got 3 of their national championships by recruiting violations. They always say "Well every college does it, we just got caught."

I usually ask them if they realize they just stated that their college is the only one that's not clever enough to keep it hidden, even if it WERE pervasive in college football. None of them has yet to answer that question.



Okay...PLEASE tell me you're not naive enough to ask this question and be SERIOUS.

How does Shannon Faulkner become the first woman to be admitted at The Citadel, and then not make it through her first semester there?

CU is one of the most liberal colleges in the U.S. for a college of its size. It's the reincarnation of Berkley from the '60's, I kid you not.

If there is going to be ANY school that tries to level the playing field between men and women, it will be CU. The only problem is that they were trying to level it with a sand shovel when they really needed a road grader...which leads me to:



As I said in my supposedly "Mr. Science-starting-trouble" post, I agree with you.

Women don't belong on a men's college football team.
If this isn't an indicator, I don't know what is.

I am fairly certain that she was responding to 'thehoot79" in her post, not you.

Which I now see that you did see.

Soooo tired......must rest eyes......

Jared
02-23-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
I know that. I didn't SAY she was talking to me.

???

I'm totally lost on your point here.
Is this your way of saying I can only reply to comments made directly to me...?

I KNOW that's not a rule here! :)

I edited my response.

It has been busy to say the least.

Return of Lava
02-23-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Jared
Lava, this flies in the face of everything I have ever been taught about being a member of a team. If we do anything, ANYTHING, on or off the court (or field in this case), it can hurt the team by being a distraction. This is preached from high school on up. So how can a coach possibly just say, "When you are not on my time, I don't give a damn what you do." I doubt that was his recruiting pitch. If it was, then he talked to some VERY brave parents. If he DOES believe that, but pitches something else, then he has lied to these young men's parents. Either way, I can't possibly imagine coach thinking that is an acceptable policy, if for no other selfless reason, they don't want to lose their jobs. seriously though, is the coach supposed to chaperone(sp) the party? Its not that the coach would say "well they aint on my time no more" its that he cant be with them 24/7 just cause he is the coach, he probably has his own family and besides that, the student athletes cant be followed like that. Think about high school, how much free time does the players have without the coach? Think about the NFL, how many crime charges go against players? The coach isnt around them ALL the time. They aren't supposed to be. the students did that stuff on thier own, bottom line, the coach didnt tell them to do it, he didnt help them do it, the students just took it upon themselves to do it. The coach CANNOT keep track of each and every player at all times, its ridiculous. How can we even think that the coach was supposed to know what was going on at some college party. The blame should be placed on the player who did it and nobody else. until we find out that barnett DID know about it, then he should be dealt with, but nobody knows that for sure so as far as that is concerned he never knew. we cant assume he did. Think about what you guys are saying, its based off hindsight. You are saying the coach should have went up to the players and said, "ok guys, dont rape anybody this week" i believe ALL the blame should be put on the player who did it THEN anybody else who knew about it(coaches or players) and didnt report it, should suffer a lesser penalty. It is ridiculous to half-excuse the player responsible just cause he is in athletics. Say the player wasnt in athletics, should we blame his favorite teacher?

Jared
02-24-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
seriously though, is the coach supposed to chaperone(sp) the party? Its not that the coach would say "well they aint on my time no more" its that he cant be with them 24/7 just cause he is the coach, he probably has his own family and besides that, the student athletes cant be followed like that. Think about high school, how much free time does the players have without the coach? Think about the NFL, how many crime charges go against players? The coach isnt around them ALL the time. They aren't supposed to be. the students did that stuff on thier own, bottom line, the coach didnt tell them to do it, he didnt help them do it, the students just took it upon themselves to do it. The coach CANNOT keep track of each and every player at all times, its ridiculous. How can we even think that the coach was supposed to know what was going on at some college party. The blame should be placed on the player who did it and nobody else. until we find out that barnett DID know about it, then he should be dealt with, but nobody knows that for sure so as far as that is concerned he never knew. we cant assume he did. Think about what you guys are saying, its based off hindsight. You are saying the coach should have went up to the players and said, "ok guys, dont rape anybody this week" i believe ALL the blame should be put on the player who did it THEN anybody else who knew about it(coaches or players) and didnt report it, should suffer a lesser penalty. It is ridiculous to half-excuse the player responsible just cause he is in athletics. Say the player wasnt in athletics, should we blame his favorite teacher?

NO. The coach is not supposed to chapoerone the party. The coach should have a policy that he shares with the players.

"If you screw up, you hurt the team, and you will be out of here". Its not that the coach is responsible for the actions of his players (legally anyway. Under NCAA rules, its a different story), but that he obviously has not fostered an environemnt of accountability. That is obvious just based on his own comments since all of this has started. He clearly doesn't hold himself accountable, and he doesn't think his players are accountable. Until there is a legal fact-finding inquiry, whether that is an investigation or a trial, he has no place saying those things. Because is something DID happen, then clearly, SOMEONE has to be accountable. So for him to state as fact otherwise is both presumptive and premature.

If he had stressed to them the importance of their own perosnal behavior and how it affects the whle team, maybe one of these young men wouldn't even be in a position where they could be accused of rape. Maybe all of the cahrges are false. The most likely scenario is that some may be false or at least unable to be proven, and some are true. Regardless, even if they were all false, as a coach, I would be asking my players "How on earth could you even be somehwere where you can be accused of this?" I would aslo add "I expect you to use better judgement. I have to suspend you until te investigation is over. If you are found to be complately clear of all charges, then you are welcome back and I will never mention it again. But because you have displayed poor decision making, you are a distraction to your teammates, and you will need this time to focus on your legal issue anyway."

Saying something like that does two things:

1) It shows that you, as a person and leader of young men, will not tolerate behavior that is unacceptable in mainstream society within the confines of your team.

2) It shows the other young men on your team that you do not mess around, and that there are consequences for their actions. Even if the accusation is false, you will be expected to keep yourself away from situations where you can even be accused.


Of course, I realize that this gets harder and harder every year with players, as more of them come from homes with one or no parents and no ethical guidance. But that doesn't mean you don't try, dammit!

orangenblue420
02-24-2004, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Jared
I am fairly certain that she was responding to 'thehoot79" in her post, not you.

Which I now see that you did see.

Soooo tired......must rest eyes......

Not sure what I missed, but I am assuming that part of bcollins response was to me, although it seems to have disappeared...

1. I do realize that it is a genderless crime, but thanks anyways Captain Obvious, but I also KNOW that rape occurs mainly to women (7 out of every 8 rape victims, in 2002, were women http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html), go do some research for yourselves - esp. you hoot - My best friend also happens to have her bachelors degree in psych (and is interviewing with grad schools as we speak) and she specializes in womens studies.

2. I was asking the male/female question in all seriousness, I wanted to know. I checked their profile and it wasn't listed, so I asked, it wasnt meant to be a sarcastic question. Tis why I asked the second question about having ever been raped. And NO I definitely would NOT have felt stupid, regardless of their answer...I had a response for either answer, although the one for female would not have been pretty :D

3. The subject I wasnt going to comment on was how it felt to be raped and I didnt comment on it, now did I?????? My comments were focused on replying to hoots statements.

4. OK, Mr. Pot II for someone who wasnt going to give flack, you certainly managed to throw a bit in there now didnt ya???

Oh yeah, and I go back to..................


BITE ME :D (inserted smilie since you seem to think that adding one at the end of your jabs seems to make everything ok.....)

quarterback1426
03-07-2004, 06:01 PM
Personally, I am a big CU fan, and I don't understand why this girl waits so long after the alleged rape supposedly happened. Why not come out immediatly? Most of the people that went to the school when she was "raped" are gone now. It isn't fair that now everyone looks down upon Colorado University, even though basically none of the current players attended the university at that time. Just remember that when you're talkin bad about CU. And the coach, if the accusations are found to be true, then he should be let go, but until then let him go back to his job.

Return of Lava
03-07-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Jared
"If you screw up, you hurt the team, and you will be out of here". Its not that the coach is responsible for the actions of his players (legally anyway. Under NCAA rules, its a different story), but that he obviously has not fostered an environemnt of accountability. That is obvious just based on his own comments since all of this has started. He clearly doesn't hold himself accountable, and he doesn't think his players are accountable. Until there is a legal fact-finding inquiry, whether that is an investigation or a trial, he has no place saying those things. Because is something DID happen, then clearly, SOMEONE has to be accountable. So for him to state as fact otherwise is both presumptive and premature.

If he had stressed to them the importance of their own perosnal behavior and how it affects the whle team, maybe one of these young men wouldn't even be in a position where they could be accused of rape. Maybe all of the cahrges are false. The most likely scenario is that some may be false or at least unable to be proven, and some are true. Regardless, even if they were all false, as a coach, I would be asking my players "How on earth could you even be somehwere where you can be accused of this?" I would aslo add "I expect you to use better judgement. I have to suspend you until te investigation is over. If you are found to be complately clear of all charges, then you are welcome back and I will never mention it again. But because you have displayed poor decision making, you are a distraction to your teammates, and you will need this time to focus on your legal issue anyway."

Saying something like that does two things:

1) It shows that you, as a person and leader of young men, will not tolerate behavior that is unacceptable in mainstream society within the confines of your team.

2) It shows the other young men on your team that you do not mess around, and that there are consequences for their actions. Even if the accusation is false, you will be expected to keep yourself away from situations where you can even be accused.


Of course, I realize that this gets harder and harder every year with players, as more of them come from homes with one or no parents and no ethical guidance. But that doesn't mean you don't try, dammit! so what your saying is the football players cant go to any parties? A rape accusation can happen at ANY time whether it is true or not. The female could even WANT to have sex, then turn and say she was raped, not saying this is the katie Hnida case, but in college it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to stay out of that situation where you could be charged. You have to stay inside all the time and never go anywhere that another female is.

Besides that, it was 5 years ago, that player that did it was gone right, who was he supposed to suspend now? he never knew remember, until now. So the player just got away with it, and his old coach takes the blame? I understand him saying he will support his players 100% cause he cant break the bond with his player's trust on an accusation that might not be true. I just dont see how its his fault until they PROVE it is and nobody proved it yet.......have they? Maybe some new stuff came up but i havent heard nothing.

I must ask......if he wasnt a football player, who would you blame then?

quarterback1426
03-07-2004, 06:32 PM
A football coach is not the mother of the players. The coach cannot be responsible for the player's actions at all times, nor are they expected to be. It is not the coach's fault for something a player did. Is it the teacher's fault if someone fails a test? Is it the manager of a store's fault is one of the employees decides to steal something? No.

Return of Lava
03-07-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by quarterback1426
A football coach is not the mother of the players. The coach cannot be responsible for the player's actions at all times, nor are they expected to be. It is not the coach's fault for something a player did. Is it the teacher's fault if someone fails a test? Is it the manager of a store's fault is one of the employees decides to steal something? No. yeah thats how i feel, unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, i dont see his fault.

quarterback1426
03-11-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
yeah thats how i feel, unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, i dont see his fault.


And so far, they haven't linked him to anything. :D

orangenblue420
03-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Is it the teachers fault if they see a kid cheating and turn their head - is it a managers fault if they see someone stealing and look the other way - When the players are on the field or in the locker room, the coach has some responsibility to coach, teach and discipline them in the proper manner - you cant tell me he didnt know some of this ***** was going on - please :rolleyes:

Return of Lava
03-12-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Return of Lava
unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, and prove he seen it and just turned his head, i dont see his fault. we cant assume he knew

orangenblue420
03-12-2004, 11:52 AM
I can - and I will until he can prove that he didnt know - lava youve been in locker rooms (as have I ;) ) and you know that if enough of that crap is goin on the coach will know - there is no doubt in my mind that he knew something

quarterback1426
03-12-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Is it the teachers fault if they see a kid cheating and turn their head - is it a managers fault if they see someone stealing and look the other way - When the players are on the field or in the locker room, the coach has some responsibility to coach, teach and discipline them in the proper manner - you cant tell me he didnt know some of this ***** was going on - please :rolleyes:

I'm just saying that if someone is going to get in troube for this if it's true(and someone will), it should be the players that did it, not the coach that coached them.

orangenblue420
03-12-2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by quarterback1426
I'm just saying that if someone is going to get in troube for this if it's true(and someone will), it should be the players that did it, not the coach that coached them.

Its a crime in the US to turn your back on a crime - he's not just gonna be consider an innocent bystander - i mean I am all for the players who did this to get the full punishment of the law - but everyone involved should

quarterback1426
03-12-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Its a crime in the US to turn your back on a crime - he's not just gonna be consider an innocent bystander - i mean I am all for the players who did this to get the full punishment of the law - but everyone involved should

Ok, that does make sense, but until they prove something against the coach, can he at least go back to his job?

orangenblue420
03-12-2004, 12:48 PM
Nope thats what suspended w/ pay is for - he's lucky to be gettin paid (i assume he still is, they usually suspend w/ pay unless there is overwhelming proof) - and if there is even the slightest chance of him being guilty why would you want him there anyways?

quarterback1426
03-13-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by orangenblue420
Nope thats what suspended w/ pay is for - he's lucky to be gettin paid (i assume he still is, they usually suspend w/ pay unless there is overwhelming proof) - and if there is even the slightest chance of him being guilty why would you want him there anyways?
I want him there because he is a good coach. He didn't molest the girl, it hasn't even been proven that anyone molested her. Right now it's still just an accusation. But the coach was not accused of raping, molesting, or whatever else the girl said happened.