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mattos
02-05-2004, 11:52 AM
a university professor got killed riding her bicycle here a while back. reading about it got me to thinking. my friends and i used to ride bikes all over the place before we could drive but we always stayed on the sidewalk whenever there was one. it just seemed to be the only rational decision - there are cars on the road . . . cars will kill you . . . there are no cars on the sidewalk. in my mind, bikes on the road create a safety hazard for everyone - the biker obviously, but also cars that have to drift into the other lane to pass them or slow down until they have an opportunity to pass them and risk getting hit from behind. you wouldn't walk in the road the way bikers ride in it, and there really isn't a difference between walking and riding a bike.

i say share the sidewalk. what do all you think?

BlueDamsel
02-05-2004, 12:01 PM
"If you don't like my driving, get off the sidewalk"..

No, but seriously, I had a teacher when I was in high school that was very environmentally-conscious. She rode her bike to school & all over town, as much as the weather permitted, etc. She would occasionally show up to school in a bad mood because of something some driver had done (she obviously rode on the road) and some of the guys in my class would get in debates with her over "sharing the road."

My biggest point was that if bicyclists feel that they should get the same treatments as a gas-guzzling vehicle, then they need to follow the same rules. I've seen way too many people on bicycles cut in & out of traffic, flip you off for not giving you the right of way, and then get up to an intersection, see that all the vehicles have a red-light, see the cross walk with the little white signal to "walk" and just zoom across the street, almost knocking little old ladies on their butts. When I was little, I almost remember being told that if you were going to ride in the road, you had to stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, if you did need to cross in a cross WALK, then you needed to dismount your bicycle & WALK it across the street. You needed to use your "turn signals" and "stop signal" (arm-signals). If you were going to be riding at night, not only did you need a helmet, and reflective clothing, but a light as well.

Anyway, /soapbox, I have more to say, but I *should* be working! ;) (I'm getting paid to design a website, lucky me I get to link it to here!)

mattos
02-05-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by BeerGirl
My biggest point was that if bicyclists feel that they should get the same treatments as a gas-guzzling vehicle, then they need to follow the same rules. I've seen way too many people on bicycles cut in & out of traffic, flip you off for not giving you the right of way, and then get up to an intersection, see that all the vehicles have a red-light, see the cross walk with the little white signal to "walk" and just zoom across the street, almost knocking little old ladies on their butts.

i agree with you completely on that. i hate having pass the same bike over and over after every light b/c the bike just rides through the reds. when i'm coming to stop at a red light and see a bike is going to pass me, i try to get real close to the curb to block them. share the road, share the rules. but i still say share the sidewalk.

BlueDamsel
02-05-2004, 12:33 PM
Here's my obvious flaw with the share the sidewalk idea...The sidewalk is only *so* wide...You have single pedestrians, families (possibly with several little kids/holding hands/pushing strollers), people in wheelchairs, etc. There is a reason most places put up signs about "no rollerskating or skateboarding" on the sidewalk--because people on wheels are going to end up going faster than those on feet. If all bicyclists were to be on the sidewalk as well, who would get the right of way? The pedestrians, should, of course, but the bicyclists would still end up either getting in the way, or having to be "delayed" trying to stay behind the pedestrians...Basically, the sidewalk is there to make it safer/more convenient for those on foot.

I figure the best solution is to instill a "bike lane" everywhere, and make sure that the rules are followed. I know that Boulder cops are really actually pretty good about "pulling over" bicyclists for breaking rules...One of my friends actually had his bike confiscated from him because he was "riding while impaired" and didn't have his license with him. They couldn't give him a ticket, but they took his bike until he could show identification and he was sobered up.

Of course, a little off topic, but still somewhat relevant, since we're talking about bikes...RTD advertises that they have bike racks to take your bike with you, etc...However, (atleast a few years back) those racks are built for Mountain bikes, not road bikes (smaller wheels, different build). One of my friends was on one of the bicycling teams at CU. He was out training one day & then was supposed to meet a group of us over at a friend's apartment to play volleyball. He went to put his bike on the rack & noticed that it wasn't "secure"...He asked the driver if he could put it underneath the bus in one of the compartments, because it didn't seem to fit properly. The driver assured him that it would be fine and that there was no way he could open the bottom compartments to put it in there--the bike rack was there for that reason. So my friend trusted the driver & put his bike on the rack. Next thing he knew, they hit "bump"--turned out the "bump" was his bicycle. He was able to retrieve the bicycle & basically had to carry it from the bus stop to our friend's apartment. He wrote to RTD about it & they were basically like "sorry you're sol, next time ask if you can store it underneath if you don't feel that our rack is securely holding your bike" and refused to pay damages. Just a warning/lesson learned. Like I said, totally off topic, but not completely! ;)

mattos
02-05-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by BeerGirl
Here's my obvious flaw with the share the sidewalk idea...The sidewalk is only *so* wide . . . The pedestrians, should, of course, but the bicyclists would still end up either getting in the way, or having to be "delayed" trying to stay behind the pedestrians...Basically, the sidewalk is there to make it safer/more convenient for those on foot.

I figure the best solution is to instill a "bike lane" everywhere,

that's true, but the road is only so wide too and cars are faced with the same problems when bikes are on the road as bikes are face with when people are on the sidewalk - the difference in my mind is that the results of a collision are totally different: bike vs. car = dead biker . . . bike vs. pedestrian = scuffed knees and elbows. plus, when i used to ride my bike around, i could usually just slow down and go around a person, or at worst, i'd have to get off my bike for a second, but thats alot better than getting smashed by a car.

bike lanes would be nice.

BlueDamsel
02-05-2004, 12:44 PM
I agree on that point, but, like I said, that's what bike lanes are for too...I think that if they were to enforce the use of a bike lane & enforce the legality of it, that would be a great improvement.

In residential areas, where little kids are riding bikes, though, there should be more than plenty of room for bikes on the sidewalk, but perhaps it should be handled like driving--when you are learning to ride a bike, perhaps a "safe biking" class & maybe even a "biking license" should be in effect, for riding on "busy streets". I mean, there really isn't too much you can do, except take the bike away, but...

mattos
02-05-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by BeerGirl
I agree on that point, but, like I said, that's what bike lanes are for too...I think that if they were to enforce the use of a bike lane & enforce the legality of it, that would be a great improvement.

yeah i think bike lanes are fine. but around here, there are about 2 streets that have them. are there lots of bike lanes in CO?

2 Minute Warning
02-05-2004, 04:37 PM
Lots of good points have been brought up, we happen to live on a steep hill near a lake which they include every year in triathalons, the bikers don't give a hoot about the motorists,(or pedestrians for that matter) and that includes the weeks before the race where they hog the road, I'm asuming there are some rule abiding cylclers out there some where, but not around here:cheeky: To make things worse ,If they aren't hugging the white line on the main roads so they are a danger, they also speed through stop lights ect., or WEAVE everywhere. I road a bike alot as a kid, but only on highly unused, quiet backroads. And even then you can hear when a car is coming, so move over.
Same goes for people walking "in" the road, where are WE supposed to drive? I don't wish harm to anybody...but it seems common sense has flown by lots of walkers/joggers/bikers.
Summer will be here before we know it and it will be the same old thing...unsafe, but the cyclers keep getting away with it.

I know the road we live on is lots busier than it was 18 years ago, it used to be a nice place to walk but not anymore so I don't, since duh, I don't like the thought of being hit by a car!! It amazes me how many people don't care about their own safety, and I was an EMT for quite a while, there are too many dummies out there who say it will "never happen to them"
Sorry to go on so long:rolleyes:

Ryos
02-05-2004, 05:16 PM
In Holland, where there's a lot of bicycling going on, there are nearly as many bicycle paths and lanes as there are car lanes. That's really the only good method of keeping bicyclists safe from harm, but ultimately the only safety approach that wouldn't require a lot of money and time is to use common sense and have good luck. Given the choice of biking on the street or sidewalk though, I'd rather use the sidewalk these days. A lot of those vehicle drivers are dangerous enough around other automobiles, let alone bicyclists.

mattos
02-05-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by bcollin1
You're living in a state that is still arguing about whether or not the Confederate flag should be flown at the state capitol, and you're wondering why you don't have bike lanes?

heck yeah! bike lanes are for yankees! j/k i like bike lanes.


Originally posted by JoviBronco
the bikers don't give a hoot about the motorists

interesting you say that b/c that is really what prompted me to post this - as i read about the lady who died in the local publications i was struck with this sense of hostility towards car drivers. i got the feeling these people believed that drivers were evil and want to run over bikers.
as for myself, i couldn't help but think this lady was at least somewhat responsible for what happened, in that she was taking a risk by placing herself in a location where thousand pound vehicles move very quickly while she sat on a 10 pound bike and moved much slower. the editorials however were saying the driver should be tried as a criminal and that fact that he hadn't been yet was a some great injustice (he wasn't drunk or anything - my guess he was just changing the radio or something).