Knowledge is power, please take the time to read this.

[sneakers]

** Updated from after class**

To sneakers -

Well sure it's impossible to travel across the galaxy... using technology known to ourselves. Nasa has proved that it is not only probably but possible to create a "fold" or wormhole in the universe that bends matter around in you such a way that makes travel over disgustingly large distances possible in the blink of an eye. This would give validation to the uncanny maneuvers and silent flight that the craft that visit us seem to have.

And on further reading your post, we know basically nothing about the universe. They could be anywhere.

I can't find the exact article I have once read that claimed it was absolutely possible. But here is an article that explains how space travel at "warp speed" is possible if we find ways to create a negative density, which is controversial to some minds in physics. But everything has been controversial at one point or another... We used to know the world was flat. We used to know we were the center of the universe... Imagine what we know right now. There is also lots of discussion of anti-matter if you are familiar with the substance. We have created it and it yields potential energy benefits that by far outweigh anything else we have explored. I believe I heard just a gram of it could power a large city for a year or something (don't quote me on that, but the point is the same... it's untapped and nearly limitless potential.) Here's NASA's write up on the theories of space travel.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/re.../ipspaper.html

Now just because we can't envision what this would be like, it in no way gives meaning to the counter argument that warped space travel is not possible. Scientific breakthroughs always spawn from things previously unknown.

Did you watch the video? It is just one of a thousand reasons why I believe there is something out there. People are afraid of the unknown I understand... afraid of what it would mean to our civilization if there is a higher power that we are helpless to prevent ourselves against.

I'm an engineering student and I have done a lot of research on this topic, the science backs up the theories. You just have to look. I wish I could type more but I am late for class. Hope to hear your responses, especially the counter arguments.

Edit ** Also thought I would throw in another picture of a "face" in here for you. http://www.coverups.com/photos/mars_face.jpg Notice how it is very realistic. The surrounding ground is littered with craters, but the face is relatively unchanged by them. If you look carefully you can see two nostrils at the end of the nose, eye sockets, chin... This is an untampered image sent directly from space. As explained in one video, NASA released a modified version of this to the media. They claimed they fixed the image for clarity, but what they really did was twist the high res with a low res to stretch, giving the face a significantly more natural look. The government goes to great lengths to cover these things up people, it is why we know so little. We have uncovered so many questionable formations on the surface of mars... yet our explorations have only photographed 1/1000 of the surface of the planet. Imagine what we have yet left to see...

And again, please don't think my basis for intelligent life spawns solely from life on Mars... It is really insignificant whether it's on Mars or anywhere else. I just think this is extremely interesting.

I can't watch videos....work doesn't allow them (websense blocks them)

But it is very cool that we can have an intelligent conversation about this.

Wormholes (I assume we are talking about the Lorentzian wormholes, the holes that have to do with General Relativity) I admit I don't know too much about besides the fact that they are theorized (they may not even exist) to be very small (1/100000th as small as a peice of hair), and only last for 1 trillionth of a second, and as far as we can tell only occur naturally in nature.

So for any civilizations wanting to use wormholes would have to know at what instance the worm hole was going to pop open, somehow expand it, stick some exotic matter (stuff with negative energy density) in them to make them stay open so that the person inside isn't crushed....it just seems that it is not going to happen.

Warp drives and faster than light speeds, is pretty crazy stuff. You know from E=MC^2 that it takes infinite energy to move infinate mass at the speed of light. The only way light goes lightspeed is because it has no mass. So for something to go beyond the speed of light you must have negative mass.
In this crazy world of negative mass, the less energy you have the faster it goes. I think these things are called tachyons.

So in conclusion, how is one to go faster than the speed of light when one has to have negative mass, how the heck are going to accomplish that?

I think bending spacetime would probably be your best bet....you gotta somehow create a unbelievable strong mass in front to contract spacetime, and then you would have to ride spacetime like a surfer rides a wave. It might be possible in the quantum level, but large things, that is hard to do.

I know this for a fact: 1 kg of Anti-matter is around 50 megatons of energy (the equivalent of "Zsar bomba" the largest nuclear device ever exploded, or 1% of the output of the sun over 1 second).

Sorry I feel as if this is a bunch or rambling.

[Zealander]

No man, that's not a bunch of rambling. The exact science still some what eludes me, well everybody really. Being a college student I am actually turning in a draft on an argumentative essay today on the existence of intelligent life. I plan to go pick up a book which was written by a NASA scientist and astronaut. The guy spent 20 years putting into research to explain how UFO space travel would be possible in the terms we are thinking. This is of course space travel in respect to science that we currently understand.

For me it is easy to take the leap of faith that a civilization would be able to manipulate the physical universe in ways we haven't begun to think about. Again, think how far we have come. If something developed into intelligence 50,000 years before we did, there's really no limit to the technology they could possess or the expanse of their civilization. I'm just saying, we don't know anything. To say that we do know, and that we are the only race of intelligence in a universe that has a visible diameter of 28 billion light years in respect to us... is just human arrogance.

I have seen other theories. That people believe it was possible to actually "bend" space as you could say. As in, not travel straight across but from point A passing by B, C... to point X, sort of. We can only guess, I suppose. But there is enough evidence for me to show that they have visited here for me to form my own conclusion that it must be possible.

[Zealander]

*Bump*

Because aliens still exist and visit the planet.

I want to see the responses from the new posters. Tell me I'm a fool! Or search for the truth.

[Alastor]

*Bump*

Because aliens still exist and visit the planet.

I want to see the responses from the new posters. Tell me I'm a fool! Or search for the truth.

We still haven't solved that DHMO thing either. Apathy is a disease.

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE!?

[Zealander]

We still haven't solved that DHMO thing either. Apathy is a disease.

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE!?

I question you're intent. You can't rid the world's supply of hydrogen hydroxide. You're not a believer in intelligent life?

[Zealander]

We still haven't solved that DHMO thing either. Apathy is a disease.

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE!?

I just examined the thread and re-read your post about DHMO.

You are having fun at my expense.

Certainly something to be aware of, but I am struggling to identify a likely source that would expose myself to substantial quantities of DHMO to cause a health risk. You are just poking fun and being sarcastic are you not? Think it's ridiculous to believe intelligent life exists on this planet other than the human race? The first search into google, "military testimony ufo existence" wrings up ecuador admitting UFO encounters.

http://ufozero.com/the-disclosure-of...existence.html

Military personnel in my opinion are the most credible spokesman on the subject, and there is no shortage of de-classified, and "off the record" testimony to credit UFO encounters.

[Brancos]

The flaw with the arguments of people who believe in UFO's being aliens and people who believe that the government has aliens is that they present no evidence besides grainy/blurry photos/videos, individual sightings (stories) with no evidence to back them up, and documents that talk about the first two things. No real evidence is ever presented.

(WWII was also the time in our history where UFO sightings were at the highest rate, significantly).

WWII was also a time in which new technology in the aircraft industry was created. Jet engines, odd designs, and larger planes were tested and coming into use during that time period.

Edit ** Also thought I would throw in another picture of a "face" in here for you. http://www.coverups.com/photos/mars_face.jpg Notice how it is very realistic. The surrounding ground is littered with craters, but the face is relatively unchanged by them. If you look carefully you can see two nostrils at the end of the nose, eye sockets, chin... This is an untampered image sent directly from space. As explained in one video, NASA released a modified version of this to the media. They claimed they fixed the image for clarity, but what they really did was twist the high res with a low res to stretch, giving the face a significantly more natural look. The government goes to great lengths to cover these things up people, it is why we know so little. We have uncovered so many questionable formations on the surface of mars... yet our explorations have only photographed 1/1000 of the surface of the planet. Imagine what we have yet left to see...

The human mind likes to recognize patterns. A human will be able to make a pattern or image out of anything because that is how the human brain works. When people look at clouds they may see some sort of animal depicted when in reality it is just a cloud but the human mind looks at the image and turns it into something it is not.

Here is the "face:"






http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...01/ast24may_1/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k

[Zealander]

The flaw with the arguments of people who believe in UFO's being aliens and people who believe that the government has aliens is that they present no evidence besides grainy/blurry photos/videos, individual sightings (stories) with no evidence to back them up, and documents that talk about the first two things. No real evidence is ever presented.



WWII was also a time in which new technology in the aircraft industry was created. Jet engines, odd designs, and larger planes were tested and coming into use during that time period.



The human mind likes to recognize patterns. A human will be able to make a pattern or image out of anything because that is how the human brain works. When people look at clouds they may see some sort of animal depicted when in reality it is just a cloud but the human mind looks at the image and turns it into something it is not.

Here is the "face:"






http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...01/ast24may_1/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k

I find it surprising to get this response from you. Haven't seen you post anything other than along the lines "I like chocolate milk, goodnight ".

Sure, take the face on mars out of contention. Could be geological formation. No big deal. You do however bring up a good point about the introduction of new technologies and how they can confuse people at the time of WWII.

But there is something to be alarmed, when you have an audio recording of an american fighter pilot, and I will paraphrase, "There is a glowing orb outside my plane, flying with me..... It's now circling me." The plane is confirmed by radar flying at the highest speeds man can produce at the time, meaning the jet is going very fast. The pilot then elaborates on how the object shot out of view at a speed that left him standing still.

There are so many of these events, they happen in Iran. Russia, Ecuador, Mexico. Every countries military has encounters with UFO. It's not coincidence. Forget the face on mars.

[Alastor]

I just examined the thread and re-read your post about DHMO.

You are having fun at my expense.

That's not true. I had very little fun.

I was making a point about how easy it is to lead people astray even when presenting factual information.

Any fool can do research on these things and it takes precious little critical thinking to look at a situation and see it for what it is.

But if someone wants to believe in something and they want to be part of something, they'll buy into anything that looks superficially good without asking themselves serious or important questions.

The video you linked to in your post two years ago showed an image of mars. What your speaker referred to as "patterns" is actually the result of blowing the picture up many times the size it was intended to be, causing pixelation (where parts of the picture are converted into singularly colored squares because the original image's resolution wasn't high enough to be blown up that much).

That's what he was pointing at when he referred to what he felt looked like "a city."

It wasn't a city. It's a pixelation, a common issue with pictures.

Take any image in your computer and enlarge it as much as you can - you'll see the same affect, and not always in the entire picture at once.

It's the same exact "phenomena."

I was not making fun of you. I was making a point. A point which until this last post you have hammered home beyond any amount of dispute, for over two years.



Think people. If it's practiced enough, eventually it almost seems natural.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

i dont know about all this, i certainly believe there are aliens out there but i doubt they can reach us

but it certainly would be interesting to get people on mars and see what is actually up with those glass like tubes and such

hell why not start colonizing it in rotation, would be super cool problem is we would need some sort of relays in between because communication seems like it would be difficult to maintain

[Zealander]

That's not true. I had very little fun.

I was making a point about how easy it is to lead people astray even when presenting factual information.

Any fool can do research on these things and it takes precious little critical thinking to look at a situation and see it for what it is.

But if someone wants to believe in something and they want to be part of something, they'll buy into anything that looks superficially good without asking themselves serious or important questions.

The video you linked to in your post two years ago showed an image of mars. What your speaker referred to as "patterns" is actually the result of blowing the picture up many times the size it was intended to be, causing pixelation (where parts of the picture are converted into singularly colored squares because the original image's resolution wasn't high enough to be blown up that much).

That's what he was pointing at when he referred to what he felt looked like "a city."

It wasn't a city. It's a pixelation, a common issue with pictures.

Take any image in your computer and enlarge it as much as you can - you'll see the same affect, and not always in the entire picture at once.

It's the same exact "phenomena."

I was not making fun of you. I was making a point. A point which until this last post you have hammered home beyond any amount of dispute, for over two years.



Think people. If it's practiced enough, eventually it almost seems natural.

Man I must look like a fool, only now that I have really taken the time to read through that website you sited. That's a pretty clever little web page, the whole thing has to be a joke. Have that one, but I am interested to hear your own thoughts on the subject rather than proving a point about how people can be tricked into seeing what they want. That happens, and I am often guilty.

Don't believe in intelligent life? We sure are not. You don't think in all the infinite expanse of space, and the approximate 14 billion year lifespan that there is nothing out there to rival our own evolution, when space exploration suggests there is an abundance of water throughout the universe? You don't think similar conditions to our own atmosphere can be created on a far away planet, with a sun that can support the required energy for life?

I don't think the possibility of evolution elsewhere is irrational, these conditions must exist millions of times over in space. What do you find so comical about the situation?

[underrated29]

Dude, Zealander!

That's nothing!

Many on this board will vouch for my unwavering devotion to fact and that I do not generally buy into "conspiracy theories."

Often, I look upon them with disdain.

This one however, like your video, has me convinced. In the face of overwhelming evidence, people simply must begin accepting the truth, so here it is:

Let me tell you about the DHMO cover-up our government runs constantly! I bet most of us have never even heard of DHMO, but it's very, very real.

You won't believe the extent to which this issue and the adverse (even deadly) health affects it has on every person on the planet every day is covered up!

Read more about it at DHMO.org.

DHMO is a form of hydrogenic acid that can be found in nature, or in many cases, is created in laboratories and used for everything from industrial uses to consumption products.

Seriously, aliens?! Pffft... We got bigger problems right here at home, dude.

Oddly, however, these two topics are linked not just because of a massive cover-up at the hands of our own governments, but also because alien life forms on Mars, once discovered, must have access to this chemical to survive. They are as a law of science, dependant upon this substance - a substance we habitually pollute our world and bodies with every single day. Because of the nature of their environment, any life forms that do exist on Mars, must absolutely have this compound in order to exist.

In fact, our government, though they don't speak about it often or in obvious fashion, has invested billions of dollars and sent at least two expeditions to Mars looking for signs of this very substance - though for exactly what objective none are willing or able to say for certain. The blanket "quest for knowledge" is often used to brush aside the matter and side-step the issue.

We are partners - albeit allies by circumstance - in our quests for the truth. My only hope is that the foolish, gullible masses learn something from this thread, but my fear is that they will not. Yet somehow, we as a culture will find a way to carry on and improve despite their tragic ignorance.

I'm glad that people are intelligent and crafty enough to discover these things and share them with the world.

Thank you for being a patriot, and doing the work most people simply will not do.

CPs to you!

We still haven't solved that DHMO thing either. Apathy is a disease.

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE!?

LMAO- I didnt see this post a few months ago, but I remember when I was in 8th grade, that the kid won the science fair with this......I was soooo pissed. I was like really, you duped EVERYONE with this. Couldnt believe it worked. He didnt even have to do anywork either. All he did was show how water can be this and that and do this and that and give it its molecular name. I thought people would see right through it. Meanwhile I spent all this time dissolving nails in coke cans and the like.

[Alastor]

A very good and reasonable response, Zealander.

I like you - and no, that's not a trick. What I've seen of you so far seems genuine and intelligent.

Don't believe in intelligent life? We sure are not. You don't think in all the infinite expanse of space, and the approximate 14 billion year lifespan that there is nothing out there to rival our own evolution, when space exploration suggests there is an abundance of water throughout the universe? You don't think similar conditions to our own atmosphere can be created on a far away planet, with a sun that can support the required energy for life?

I pretty much believe that intelligent life other than our own has to exist someplace. As you point out, in all the billions of galaxies, with billions of stars in each, with many planets around each star, eventually we're going to find something that is alive other than ourselves.

But do I believe in UFOs as space ships? No. It's preposterous. It's such an incredibly nonsensical theory from top to bottom that I find it ridiculous. It's an inherent logical fallacy that doesn't stand the test of reason.

No, I do not believe we have space ships visiting us from other planets, nor do I believe we have alien bodies stored away in a freezer. We might have some weird stuff we've never been able to identify, but I don't think they were space aliens.

That's ludicrous on so many levels that my fingers hurt just thinking about typing out all the logical fallacies that go into UFO conspiracies.

If you want me to elaborate, I will. But perhaps you'd prefer to simply accept my answer, disagree with it, and send me on my way too. The option is yours. If asked for elaboration I will. If not, I'll get out of the way.

Good response above though, Zealander. Very cool.

Best wishes.

[Zealander]

A very good and reasonable response, Zealander.

I like you - and no, that's not a trick. What I've seen of you so far seems genuine and intelligent.





I pretty much believe that intelligent life other than our own has to exist someplace. As you point out, in all the billions of galaxies, with billions of stars in each, with many planets around each star, eventually we're going to find something that is alive other than ourselves.

But do I believe in UFOs as space ships? No. It's preposterous. It's such an incredibly nonsensical theory from top to bottom that I find it ridiculous. It's an inherent logical fallacy that doesn't stand the test of reason.

No, I do not believe we have space ships visiting us from other planets, nor do I believe we have alien bodies stored away in a freezer. We might have some weird stuff we've never been able to identify, but I don't think they were space aliens.

That's ludicrous on so many levels that my fingers hurt just thinking about typing out all the logical fallacies that go into UFO conspiracies.

If you want me to elaborate, I will. But perhaps you'd prefer to simply accept my answer, disagree with it, and send me on my way too. The option is yours. If asked for elaboration I will. If not, I'll get out of the way.

Good response above though, Zealander. Very cool.

Best wishes.

I would appreciate a response to my following inquiries, and would enjoy seeing your views what on what is to be valued in a leader in the thread "Players laughing on the sideline, before/after a loss" posted in GD.

UFO space craft a fallacy? Misleading? Sure, we don't have evidence. I think the thought that an alien spacecraft that can conquer the mind numbing expanse of space, only to crashland on earth, A "Roswell" incident is a fallacy. It's ridiculous to think the physics of our own atmosphere would cause a crash landing after such a technological feat as pioneering the vastness of space.

For perspective, I examine human history. Now I figure we've been an "intelligent race" for about 14,000 years. In the last 60 years, we have sent a man to the moon, and our most recent adventure that has my interest is we have investigated one of Saturns moon's we suspected to have similar atomospheric conditions as our own. Well we found water,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35313176..._science-space

So, we have found evidence of water on Saturn's moon, and Mars. Pretty incredible considering both are relatively on our own front doorstep.

Today, our space program takes a back seat in federal budgeting. Apparently it's in our best interest to sign off on large corporate bail outs, (add nausea and politics, budgeting). With 3.5 billion dollars we sent a probe to Saturn's moon. I was watching a special on the history channel that fascinated me, we actually sent the probe back to Venus, to use it's gravitational force to sling shot the satellite or whatever you'll call it, past earth, again passing close enough by the planet to use the gravitational pull to slingshot. By the time the probe had passed Jupiter it was screaming faster than anything we've designed.

I just don't think it's fair to write off UFO technology as preposterous when a bunch of us people have come from boosting a rocket to the moon from fossil fuels to finely projecting our machines past planets to expand our reaches of space essentially in the last sixty years... In what I consider a lackluster (could be greater) space program.

The possibilities of UFO's to use gravitational pull from planets and suns to skip along the universe and conquer millions of light years seems possible if an intelligent race has been exploring this possibilities on a time scale we haven't matured to yet. I mean, what if this was the goal of a civilization for tens of thousands of years?

Our technologies have developed exponentially. Heck, if the people of this planet could some how reach a sustainable existence, it's incredible to think of the capabilities we would possess in a thousand years.

So I am quite curious, what about the prospect of UFO technology do you to be considered fallacy? Misleading, false? Because we don't have a space ship in our own hangar?

[Alastor]

I would appreciate a response to my following inquiries, and would enjoy seeing your views what on what is to be valued in a leader in the thread "Players laughing on the sideline, before/after a loss" posted in GD.

You're very polite and kind.

UFO space craft a fallacy? Misleading? Sure, we don't have evidence. I think the thought that an alien spacecraft that can conquer the mind numbing expanse of space, only to crashland on earth, A "Roswell" incident is a fallacy.

Okay, then on this we agree.

It's ridiculous to think the physics of our own atmosphere would cause a crash landing after such a technological feat as pioneering the vastness of space.

Well, as we know from experience, we all make mistakes. At the same time it's pretty unlikely. Once? Twice? Maybe. But presumably such advanced people would come get it before we got a-hold of it as well.

For perspective, I examine human history. Now I figure we've been an "intelligent race" for about 14,000 years. In the last 60 years, we have sent a man to the moon, and our most recent adventure that has my interest is we have investigated one of Saturns moon's we suspected to have similar atomospheric conditions as our own. Well we found water,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35313176..._science-space

So, we have found evidence of water on Saturn's moon, and Mars. Pretty incredible considering both are relatively on our own front doorstep.

Water's not all that complex though. Two of the most common atoms in the known universe.

I just don't think it's fair to write off UFO technology as preposterous when a bunch of us people have come from boosting a rocket to the moon from fossil fuels to finely projecting our machines past planets to expand our reaches of space essentially in the last sixty years... In what I consider a lackluster (could be greater) space program.

Oh, I agree with that, and perhaps my phrasing above wasn't entirely accurate. I think it's entirely possible that life exists and knows of us.

I think it's pretty far-fetched that they on one hand have not come out to speak to us, and on the other we have seen them, tracked them, and found pieces of them and their crafts. This is especially true when we look at the frequency of such "finds."

If a race that advanced didn't want to remain hidden, then they would certainly have made themselves known. They have not done so. This leaves two options:

A) They don't want to be known.

B) They're not here.

If A is the answer and they simply don't want to be known, there is no way I can reasonably accept that we have seen so many signs of them, that we've seen them so often, that they've not figured out how to jam signals, steal film, create advanced virus programs that wipe out evidence, and so on. For all the sightings that go on they must either want to be known (which we can already rule out), or they simply aren't here - because there's no way an advanced race would be this technologically inept, this sloppy, and this nonchalant about getting caught if they did in fact, not want to get caught.

That really only leaves B.

I confess that it's possible that aliens exist and visit us frequently without detection and that the reports we hear and see of sightings and such are simply people being irrational - a coincidence to the actual presence of undetected alien life.

If that's the case however, it's a moot point.

If aliens are indeed here and can completely hide themselves from us, it doesn't really matter. They're obviously not going to harm us, nor are they going to interfere with us, nor are we ever going to interact with them on any level - because they don't want that to happen and because they're far too advanced for us to be able to detect them.

The possibilities of UFO's to use gravitational pull from planets and suns to skip along the universe and conquer millions of light years seems possible if an intelligent race has been exploring this possibilities on a time scale we haven't matured to yet. I mean, what if this was the goal of a civilization for tens of thousands of years?

It's very possible that some race of beings has that technology. But again, if they have that level of technology, they also have the level of technology to make sure they remain undetected completely as well.

So I am quite curious, what about the prospect of UFO technology do you to be considered fallacy?

See above.

Because we don't have a space ship in our own hangar?

No, it's not really about having a space ship in a hangar. It's about reconciling how they have the technology they would have to have, but still wanting to remain undetected and then being unable to do so.

If they're that advanced and they wanted to stay hidden, they could. Thus, any evidence we have seen of them is because they allowed it. Thus, they don't actually want to be hidden. Thus, we should all have met them by now.

But we haven't.

Requirements for alien life to be observably present in our world:

1. They must have high technology.
2. They must want to remain undetected.
3. They must lack the ability to remain undetected.

Somewhere along the line, each of these facets cannot possibly be true. At least one, and potentially all of these requirements must be false.

Simply put, the theory doesn't make any sense. Somewhere along the way, one or more of those three required elements simply is not true. If any one of those elements is not true, the rest become either not true or irrelevant by default.

It is not possible that aliens visit us, that they want to remain undetected, yet we detect them all the time despite what they want. That's just not a very sound theory.