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  • You Have to Feel for Those Investors

    As we watch the sad, sad story of one Bernard Madoff evolve, how can you not feel for those poor investors (yet again)??? Some are flat broke, some are trying to understand their fate, and possibly a couple have left this world as a result of the actions taken by this one "greedy" man. Investors are regular people, not just the rich. Investors are often just ordinary folks who work hard all their lives, and put away money for their golden years, rather than have some of the things that may tempt them today. They are often people that invest in very safe things, like blue chip stock. They are usually not "greedy" or selfish or calculating in any way.

    I can not believe what this man has done to hurt so many. In my opinion, there needs to be a thorough process whereby money can be re-captured from these white collar bandits, and re-allocated appropriately. It can't all be gone. Someone has it....some people or institutions. Hopefully there is a way.

    And hopefully.....what we have witnessed in the last few years will be a starting point for a more stringent world, where the simplest detection of wrong doing leads to an all-encompassing search, right from the get go. It is so very strange, that the vast majority of people I know would not have the least inkling of trying to steal others' money, and yet much of this whole economic fiasco was created by those who see things differently. And even though we should not judge, in my mind there is at least one judge waiting to investigate these cases......reminds me of that wise saying: you can fool some of the people all of the time......(you know the rest)

  • #2
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    As we watch the sad, sad story of one Bernard Madoff evolve, how can you not feel for those poor investors (yet again)??? Some are flat broke, some are trying to understand their fate, and possibly a couple have left this world as a result of the actions taken by this one "greedy" man. Investors are regular people, not just the rich. Investors are often just ordinary folks who work hard all their lives, and put away money for their golden years, rather than have some of the things that may tempt them today. They are often people that invest in very safe things, like blue chip stock. They are usually not "greedy" or selfish or calculating in any way.

    I can not believe what this man has done to hurt so many. In my opinion, there needs to be a thorough process whereby money can be re-captured from these white collar bandits, and re-allocated appropriately. It can't all be gone. Someone has it....some people or institutions. Hopefully there is a way.

    And hopefully.....what we have witnessed in the last few years will be a starting point for a more stringent world, where the simplest detection of wrong doing leads to an all-encompassing search, right from the get go. It is so very strange, that the vast majority of people I know would not have the least inkling of trying to steal others' money, and yet much of this whole economic fiasco was created by those who see things differently. And even though we should not judge, in my mind there is at least one judge waiting to investigate these cases......reminds me of that wise saying: you can fool some of the people all of the time......(you know the rest)


    Well first off, the power of the US government (specifically the Department of Justice and bankruptcy courts) in this case is VAST....very vast. Most if not all of Maddoffs assets, including those he signed over to his wife like his properties and stuff, will almost certainly be seized by the civil courts and sold.

    His victims will hopefully get SOME of their money back but unfortunately it will be pennies on the dollar.

    In the criminal courts, he has already pleaded guilty.

    And second..people should of been much more weary of a man who was claiming to offer returns that large.

    People are so SURE that just become some dude looks like he has a lot of money, and lives in a fancy Upper East Side penthouse, that he must know some sort of super dooper double secret probation secret of investing that only the SUPER wealthy and connected could possibly know about. Surely that explains why this man alone provides returns that defy logic.

    Regardless of whatever standing and credit this man had before he got caught. I feel bad for the people that lost so much of their money because of him but seriously...
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    And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

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    • #3
      Grey has touched on a good point. While I dont' condone what Madoff has done, the investors themselvs do need to be held slightly accountable to themselves. There is a level of "greed" involved when one man is offering such high returns compared to the going rates. But... that being said... it seems like Madoff went in with ill intentions and as suck he needs to be dealt with very harshly. They are saying that his recent colon cancer issue could be a death sentence if he get's sent into general population... I say- "F 'im". There are many people who are gonna be sffering more then they have to because of him. You reap what you sow and he's been sowing this for quite awhile now.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gr3yStreet View Post
        Well first off, the power of the US government (specifically the Department of Justice and bankruptcy courts) in this case is VAST....very vast. Most if not all of Maddoffs assets, including those he signed over to his wife like his properties and stuff, will almost certainly be seized by the civil courts and sold.

        His victims will hopefully get SOME of their money back but unfortunately it will be pennies on the dollar.

        In the criminal courts, he has already pleaded guilty.

        And second..people should of been much more weary of a man who was claiming to offer returns that large.

        People are so SURE that just become some dude looks like he has a lot of money, and lives in a fancy Upper East Side penthouse, that he must know some sort of super dooper double secret probation secret of investing that only the SUPER wealthy and connected could possibly know about. Surely that explains why this man alone provides returns that defy logic.

        Regardless of whatever standing and credit this man had before he got caught. I feel bad for the people that lost so much of their money because of him but seriously...
        Good stuff....however I disagree about these people's error in believing Madoff. He was a credible person, and in fact, many investment groups have histories of excellent returns. THat's what most people look for, someone with some recognizable status and a solid history. Would you go to a no name group that had a an ordinary history??? I doubt it. It may appear obvious now, but not so back then......credibility, good history, actual statements, and so on......

        Last week they showed an elderly couple on 60 Minutes moving from their home (that they had to sell) due to their losses. They had lost about everything, and what's worse, the fellow said he was even more distraught because he recommended Madoff to family and friends. Yes, I am sad for these folks.

        Finally, in this market I have heard of folks that have lost most of their investments, even with companies like the one I deal with. Nothing to do with people like Madoff.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CanDB View Post
          Good stuff....however I disagree about these people's error in believing Madoff. He was a credible person, and in fact, many investment groups have histories of excellent returns. THat's what most people look for, someone with some recognizable status and a solid history. Would you go to a no name group that had a an ordinary history??? I doubt it. It may appear obvious now, but not so back then......credibility, good history, actual statements, and so on......

          Last week they showed an elderly couple on 60 Minutes moving from their home (that they had to sell) due to their losses. They had lost about everything, and what's worse, the fellow said he was even more distraught because he recommended Madoff to family and friends. Yes, I am sad for these folks.

          Finally, in this market I have heard of folks that have lost most of their investments, even with companies like the one I deal with. Nothing to do with people like Madoff.
          I dont think credibility has anything to do with it.

          History is full of credible looking people who have turned out to be full of it.

          People were willing to invest in this man, based solely of his reputation without doing any serious research into where he was investing their money.

          The guy actually said that "The investment scheme is to complicated for outsiders". Are you kidding me? Someone is willing to invest over a billion dollars with someone who wont even tell you his plan for the money is.

          "But every other client he has is making steady money!"

          That's just crazy. And it's because people WANT to believe that there is a super easy way to make money and as long as the checks keep coming they don't really care where its coming from.

          This guy ran a ponzi scheme for a better part of a decade. That's incredible and requires a tremendous amount blind trust on the part of his investors.

          I'm sorry, but If i were investing that much money with someone, I would want to be intimately involved in it.

          Not just, "I'm rich, ill give this guy my my money and get tons more somehow!".

          He admitted in court, he NEVER actually invested ANYTHING. He put all the money he got into a bank account. Did no one bother to check on their investments? Get some sort of proof of the investment?

          Of course not. How could someone who is so rich be untrustworthy?
          Last edited by Gr3yStreet; 03-13-2009, 05:44 PM.
          sigpic

          And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gr3yStreet View Post
            I dont think credibility has anything to do with it.

            History is full of credible looking people who have turned out to be full of it.

            People were willing to invest in this man, based solely of his reputation without doing any serious research into where he was investing their money.

            The guy actually said that "The investment scheme is to complicated for outsiders". Are you kidding me? Someone is willing to invest over a billion dollars with someone who wont even tell you his plan for the money is.

            "But every other client he has is making steady money!"

            That's just crazy. And it's because people WANT to believe that there is a super easy way to make money and as long as the checks keep coming they don't really care where its coming from.

            This guy ran a ponzi scheme for a better part of a decade. That's incredible and requires a tremendous amount blind trust on the part of his investors.

            I'm sorry, but If i were investing that much money with someone, I would want to be intimately involved in it.

            Not just, "I'm rich, ill give this guy my my money and get tons more somehow!".

            He admitted in court, he NEVER actually invested ANYTHING. He put all the money he got into a bank account. Did no one bother to check on their investments? Get some sort of proof of the investment?

            Of course not. How could someone who is so rich be untrustworthy?
            Hindsight is 20/20......in that regard, I guess we shouldn't trust anyone, right?

            Anyway......I will continue to feel for those folks.....it's not as obvious as you may think. As time goes on you will see many peole who have been taken in this world, mostly by people they have every right to believe. That's why the shock in all of these cases......it's the old "I never saw it coming" scenario.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CanDB View Post
              Hindsight is 20/20......in that regard, I guess we shouldn't trust anyone, right?

              Anyway......I will continue to feel for those folks.....it's not as obvious as you may think. As time goes on you will see many peole who have been taken in this world, mostly by people they have every right to believe. That's why the shock in all of these cases......it's the old "I never saw it coming" scenario.

              I'm NOT saying I don't feel sorry for these people. I do. And I am glad that the government will hopefully be able to at least give them some of their money back.

              And I'm not saying that people shouldn't trust anyone.

              But sadly, when it comes to money, and particularly large sums of money, you really can't trust anyone.

              I AM saying, if you choose to invest vast quantities of your money with someone, you should be proactive in knowing what that person is doing with it.

              ESPECIALLY when EVERY client is getting steady returns no matter what the market conditions are.
              sigpic

              And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gr3yStreet View Post
                I'm NOT saying I don't feel sorry for these people. I do. And I am glad that the government will hopefully be able to at least give them some of their money back.

                And I'm not saying that people shouldn't trust anyone.

                But sadly, when it comes to money, and particularly large sums of money, you really can't trust anyone.

                I AM saying, if you choose to invest vast quantities of your money with someone, you should be proactive in knowing what that person is doing with it.

                ESPECIALLY when EVERY client is getting steady returns no matter what the market conditions are.
                I am not going for last word......rather than saying lets leave this thing where it is.
                Last edited by CanDB; 03-13-2009, 06:35 PM.

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