Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

College Students Not Learning Much

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Bronco_Armada View Post
    only 40... damn. Wish I had classes like that.

    All my classes ranged 200 - 400 pages a week per class. It was a information overload. Lot of it I don't remember, but had a professor who once said "History is a subject where you retain less than you learn."

    Which makes me feel better.

    And quite a bit of those readings were pointless to the class itself.

    Oh well. I'm done.
    Well, I had a bit more than 40/class in each of those two. I used 40 because that was the benchmark in the article.

    Comment


    • #17
      I don't believe any so-called report from MSNBC. It is tabloid journalism designed to scare people about something that does not exist.

      I am sure there are some students that slip throught he cracks. But I do not see how anyone going through an ABET cirriculum comes out of college with the belief they did not learn anything-- that is silly.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #18
        In terms of classes that are required but have nothing to do with your degree or field of work yeah I can agree to that.

        When the hell am I going to need to know about Michelangelo's David's butt structure.. NEVER!:paper:

        But I think I'm learning a lot in the core classes I need that relate to my major.

        Comment


        • #19
          It also seems like colleges are accepting people more than ever and it appears as tho they're just piling them on to bring in revenue, rather than maintaining the integrity of their student body.

          The economy has made it difficult on the people with the least experience in their chosen field. With or without the degree.

          I was in a similar situation as you LT, where I had more than enough experience to have gotten me a good job at a management level when the times were good, but when the times got bad and I was laid off, the management type positions were already filled with the guys that had tons of experience, or I was competing with guys who were twice my age and their experience level reflected it. They were taking lower positions just to get back to work. Then, when I would try to apply for jobs that were more entry level, people would look at my management experience and my salary history and dismiss me as probably using them as a stop gap to a better job. It's like being stuck in some kind of limbo. Extremely frustrating.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by kishzilla View Post
            It also seems like colleges are accepting people more than ever and it appears as tho they're just piling them on to bring in revenue, rather than maintaining the integrity of their student body.

            The economy has made it difficult on the people with the least experience in their chosen field. With or without the degree.

            I was in a similar situation as you LT, where I had more than enough experience to have gotten me a good job at a management level when the times were good, but when the times got bad and I was laid off, the management type positions were already filled with the guys that had tons of experience, or I was competing with guys who were twice my age and their experience level reflected it. They were taking lower positions just to get back to work. Then, when I would try to apply for jobs that were more entry level, people would look at my management experience and my salary history and dismiss me as probably using them as a stop gap to a better job. It's like being stuck in some kind of limbo. Extremely frustrating.
            some are and some are not, i know the university of tennessee is becoming one of the TOP public universities in the country and one of the best sports management/recreation admin programs out of all colleges, the last freshmen class had a 28 or 29 ACT score and a 3.? gpa. its really all relative to the situation because im sure when most people think of UT they think tennessee not a great school but a TN degree is becoming very hard to get.

            my major is one of the biggest areas in the country (recreation/sport) i dont think ill have a tough time finding a job (depends where im living though of course) but ive found jobs that after 5-10 years of experience i could be pushing 110k (tough to get of course but thats what im shooting for). it is fast growing and many people dont think about parks and rec type jobs and all want to get into the sporting industry, i got lucky i switched when i did.

            idk again its all relative to the situation of course, some schools are getting better, some student are getting more laxed and some study harder
            sigpic
            -------

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by kishzilla View Post
              It also seems like colleges are accepting people more than ever and it appears as tho they're just piling them on to bring in revenue, rather than maintaining the integrity of their student body.
              This is false... colleges are tightening their enrollment to save money... you don't get more money by adding more students... you get money by adding classes that students fill... if you have too many students and not enough classes, doesn't do anything good for your college...

              They locked down enrollment at my csu (california) for a semester... and now its harder to get in than ever

              Comment


              • #22
                Students just go to get that piece of paper and party. Most students forget most of what they have learned. People just seem to care less and less in society and it's noticeable everywhere. Most public high schools are way too easy. Still, there are many dropouts. Why? It's easy and they are still quitting. I think people just need to get their heads out of their butts. Btw, I left my previous college because I really couldn't stand 90% of the people there. It kills me to see how liberal a University is. If I ever win the lottery I'll transfer to the University of Tennessee. Ha..

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx View Post
                  In terms of classes that are required but have nothing to do with your degree or field of work yeah I can agree to that.

                  When the hell am I going to need to know about Michelangelo's David's butt structure.. NEVER!:paper:

                  But I think I'm learning a lot in the core classes I need that relate to my major.
                  Thank you for agreeing with me lol. I started college but took a break and haven't gone back (mostly since I work a lot right now and helping pay bills since my mom's accident) but one of the big reasons I don't want to go back is taking worthless classes that have nothing to do with my field. Its unnecessary and expensive!
                  sigpic

                  2013,2014, and 2015 Adopt a Bronco: Champ Bailey, Marvin Austin and Matt Paradis

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
                    This is false... colleges are tightening their enrollment to save money... you don't get more money by adding more students... you get money by adding classes that students fill... if you have too many students and not enough classes, doesn't do anything good for your college...
                    I think CU is working it the opposite way. Let in more people, get them into a degree program (with huge freshman classes), and then let them have to wait to take required courses so they are in the system for a longer amount of time.


                    I talked to a recruiter one time, and he said that the knowledge you get from classes is only about 10% of what you'll need to know to do your job. Just the basics, so you arent completely lost when someone starts talking about tensile tests. Most of the knowledge he said is really that you learn to take care of yourself. That you figure out how to keep a weekly schedule without your parents doing it for you.

                    And as for other classes outside your major, Ive always really enjoyed taking those classes. Helped expose me to people in other fields, and how to deal with them. Its also helped my writing especially, since Ive had to write for non-technical audiences, something Im certain that will be helpful when pitching ideas to head honcho types instead of other engineers.
                    sigpic

                    I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
                    SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
                      This is false... colleges are tightening their enrollment to save money... you don't get more money by adding more students... you get money by adding classes that students fill... if you have too many students and not enough classes, doesn't do anything good for your college...

                      They locked down enrollment at my csu (california) for a semester... and now its harder to get in than ever
                      The U.S. bureau of labor statistics disagrees with you...



                      Lemme guess, everyone is just getting smarter.


                      Also keep in mind that's a percentage. The population has increased by about 130 million people since then. There are WAAAAAAAAAAAY more kids going to college now than there ever has been before. Add a student, and you add the tuition that kid brings. I sincerely doubt that the amount of colleges has gone up at the same rate.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kishzilla View Post
                        The U.S. bureau of labor statistics disagrees with you...



                        Lemme guess, everyone is just getting smarter.


                        Also keep in mind that's a percentage. The population has increased by about 130 million people since then. There are WAAAAAAAAAAAY more kids going to college now than there ever has been before. Add a student, and you add the tuition that kid brings. I sincerely doubt that the amount of colleges has gone up at the same rate.
                        The csu's have been tightening the enrollment... just because high school -> college is increasing... doesn't mean it is noticeably increasing in the universities, or in california.

                        I'm not using any stats or anything... I'm just telling you from the horses mouth... budget dropping != more classes

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The article's results don't surprise me at all, nor do I find them alarming.

                          Let's look at two key portions of the findings:

                          A study of more than 2,300 undergraduates found 45 percent of students show no significant improvement in the key measures of critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing by the end of their sophomore years.

                          Well, no duh.

                          They're sophomores, not seniors. They're going to grow a lot over the next two years.

                          Besides, the frontal lobe is the part that governs these skills (writing excepted - I have no idea what part of the brain governs the ability to write). This doesn't develop in a person until they're about 36 years of age. No, I'm not kidding. This is also the part that governs good decision-making, responsibility, and good judgment.

                          This is common knowledge among educators.

                          The reason we even bother to teach children critical thinking before college is so that it becomes habit and once their brains actually kick into gear (more fully), they have the structures in place to use those skills.

                          This is primarily taught in the social sciences - where objectivity and abstract concepts are used to navigate what it means to be a human and how to interact with other humans.

                          The study makes it sound worse than it is. We teach the skills, but the students don't have the brain for it. They DO need the skill though, and if they don't have the skill very practiced before their brain gets to that stage, they're not likely to "pick it up on their own." So... We teach it.

                          The same thing happened to me in college. I learned a lot of Political Science (since that was one of my majors). This stuff - to actually KNOW this stuff and understand it as opposed to regurgitate trivia - is hard.

                          But I did my best to "know" it. I'm now 37. About four years ago I kept re-reading all of my college crap and other political texts, and it all suddenly started clicking into place on a level it had not ever done before. I thought I really understood the material at the time I was in college, and I did for a college student. Now that my brain is at or near full development however, it makes a ton more sense and I understand concepts that previously I had no idea even existed. I had the information and I had the skills.

                          I just didn't have the brain.

                          The same is true of all people.

                          By the way, a girl's frontal lobe develops fully about 5-10 years faster than a male's.

                          Anyway, no. I'm neither surprised nor alarmed at this finding. That's how it is, it's how it has always been, and it's how it will be for a looooong time.

                          Not much is asked of students, either. Half did not take a single course requiring 20 pages of writing during their prior semester, and one-third did not take a single course requiring even 40 pages of reading per week.

                          Not every career field requires 20 page documents to be written. Political Science, Economics, History, Psychology, Language Arts - those career fields require a lot of reading and writing.

                          Carpentry, flying airplanes, driving an ambulance, putting out fires, taking care of the forest and cleaning up oil spills... Not so much. They're all important jobs and I'm thankful to those that perform those tasks, but they don't actually require all that much reading and writing in most cases.

                          They don't have to know how to read a 2500 page book. They don't have to know how to write a 50 page thesis.

                          The reality is that not every job needs every skill. A school is the ONLY place on Earth where we expect ourselves and other people to be good at everything all at the same time.

                          That's... Absurd. NO ONE is good at everything.


                          I suck at math. I don't do math in my real life - nothing above basic Pre-Algebra at least. I don't have to know geometry. I don't have to know calculus.

                          Is it nice to have? Sure. Is it fun sometimes if I engage in it on my own? Sure!

                          I know the basics, and I can use them effectively in life. I can engage in mathematical tasks and work through it - and I do so regularly.

                          But no, it's not really a required skill.

                          And no, not everyone needs to know how to write a 50 page academic thesis.




                          This study's findings are neither surprising nor alarming to me, nor should they be to anyone else.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Alastor View Post

                            Not much is asked of students, either. Half did not take a single course requiring 20 pages of writing during their prior semester, and one-third did not take a single course requiring even 40 pages of reading per week.

                            Not every career field requires 20 page documents to be written. Political Science, Economics, History, Psychology, Language Arts - those career fields require a lot of reading and writing.

                            Carpentry, flying airplanes, driving an ambulance, putting out fires, taking care of the forest and cleaning up oil spills... Not so much. They're all important jobs and I'm thankful to those that perform those tasks, but they don't actually require all that much reading and writing in most cases.

                            They don't have to know how to read a 2500 page book. They don't have to know how to write a 50 page thesis.

                            The reality is that not every job needs every skill. A school is the ONLY place on Earth where we expect ourselves and other people to be good at everything all at the same time.

                            That's... Absurd. NO ONE is good at everything.


                            I suck at math. I don't do math in my real life - nothing above basic Pre-Algebra at least. I don't have to know geometry. I don't have to know calculus.

                            Is it nice to have? Sure. Is it fun sometimes if I engage in it on my own? Sure!

                            I know the basics, and I can use them effectively in life. I can engage in mathematical tasks and work through it - and I do so regularly.

                            But no, it's not really a required skill.

                            And no, not everyone needs to know how to write a 50 page academic thesis.




                            This study's findings are neither surprising nor alarming to me, nor should they be to anyone else.
                            To add on to that, with my architecture/design degree I didn't write 20 pages probably in my 4 years in college. Instead of papers and essays we had models and drawings to build. Reading was similar.

                            The only classes where I had to read were architecture history I and II and were the only ones that required essays. I wouldn't say I was losing anything. A client will enjoy a model of a building much more than a 20 page essay describing the building.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
                              To add on to that, with my architecture/design degree I didn't write 20 pages probably in my 4 years in college. Instead of papers and essays we had models and drawings to build. Reading was similar.

                              The only classes where I had to read were architecture history I and II and were the only ones that required essays. I wouldn't say I was losing anything. A client will enjoy a model of a building much more than a 20 page essay describing the building.
                              Then again I do have a degree and work in a supermarket, so maybe I'm not the best example.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                In my science classes, we must read each chapter before each class... yadda yadda... but nobody does.... At least, i don't..



                                I just don't have the major that requires any sort of writing, which is why I like to hone my skills by posting on these forums and learning new words n stuff... I think it helps me. I need them honed because I have an MCAT test coming up in a few months, which has a written portion that no med school cares about

                                also need to write essays for the applications to the med schools...




                                but thats as far as I care about writing... and reading, meh.. Call it what you want... we aren't learning, blah blah blah... I think some people just WANT to believe this to confirm their belief that college is a waste of time.. not gonna argue either way because i don't care whether or not any of you have a college degree.


                                Just because you can view some statistics one way, doesn't mean the whole nation as a whole complies with it. I didn't read it, nor did I even consider reading it. I can spot bullsizzledizzzle a mile away, and this has it written all over it.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X