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  • #16
    Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx View Post
    I can see Al's point of view to of not confronting him about this but then what happens if he is still like that in 10 years? Oi.
    Not bloody likely. Almost all of the rest of us sat on our ass at some stage or another. I did it from about 15 to 20.

    The fact that you don't think it's normal is what gave rise to my last series of questions.

    Most people do this. They also grow out of it.

    Even if he doesn't however, that's his right, that's his choice, and it's the way he's going to be. All you getting upset about it is going to do is put you at odds with him - especially considering you're worrying about something that is a hypothetical for 10 years down the road.

    That just doesn't make sense.


    The more I read of your responses, the more I kind of get this gut feeling that you were raised to believe you have immediate obligations, that you HAVE to get a job and keep a job right away no matter how crappy it is or how little it matters in life, that you HAVE to go to college and that you HAVE to make good grades.

    These aren't necessarily bad values. I feel they should be "hopes" rather than "expectations" personally, but each to their own.

    Still, I get this flashing neon sign in my mind saying you were raised with these expectations.

    And that your friend's actions, freedom to do so, and his comfort level with doing so (as well as the acceptance his parents show for his actions - Dad obviously doesn't have an issue with it)...

    I get the feeling that one of three things is true:

    A) You wish you were allowed to take it easy and not stress out.
    B) You're worried that if you are around it or he does it, you'll fall into it and get sucked in far worse than you can mange, letting yourself and everyone else around you down.

    C) Both A and B.


    The more I read of your replies here, the more I'm thinking C.

    I don't know you, I don't know the situation, but I have a bright pink neon sign in my head flashing the letter C right now.

    I'd certainly encourage you to give it some thought, at least. I don't think this has anything to do with the choices your friend made. I think this has a lot to do with the choices you were raised to believe YOU have, and the things you want to do or might do, as opposed to what you ARE doing.

    This is one small post, about one situation, second-hand, where I don't know you, your friend, your situations, or your values, cultures, families, or lifestyles. I don't know a damned thing.

    It's possible that this isn't about your friend at all, though. It's entirely possible that what you're struggling with is not your friend, but rather with the belief system you have had installed in yourself - probably since the day you were born.

    Like I said, I could be wrong. It's just something I'd explore.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx View Post
      Finding a purpose might be the toughest part. He definitely has no interest in anymore school because I've badgered him to no end about going to college to no avail. There really is no interesting jobs he can get either so I don't know.

      I can see Al's point of view to of not confronting him about this but then what happens if he is still like that in 10 years? Oi.

      I don't know. So I'll just leave it at that.
      Maybe he doesn't want to go to school now. but he will. I didn't got to school right away. And I've taken breaks but I'm still trying. But it took me a while to realize I needed college. And I don't think that's very abnormal. At 18 -20 what do you really know about the world? Nothing.

      I'm 22 now, and I've lost my job due to some things that were out of my control. I can't go to school this semester because I don't have any money. I'm trying to find a job but it's really not that easy in this economy.

      Give him a chance he's 20 not 30. And if he's that way when he's 30 then it's his problem.

      But here's something.... it will click for him I'm sure. Something will make him see that he needs school and needs a job. I really think it does work that way it just clicks. At least it happened for me.

      I still don't know everything I will confess that I'm really green to this whole life thing, but not everyone has everything figured out as fast as you seem to.

      Just remember this.... Life's not a race. And there is no pass or fail. Try to do what's right for you and what makes you happy because in the end we all end up the same way... dead.
      sigpic
      2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

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      • #18
        By the way, I have several nephews between ages 13 and 19. Know what I'd do if any one of them came to me and said they got fired from Del Taco?

        I'd ask them if they wanted to go watch a movie.

        It matters nae damn. At that age? That job? Who gives a crap?

        Now if it's a theme and they try jobs where they don't get treated like crap and have a good opportunity, but they still wind up being fired for incompetence or something? That's a different issue.

        But a teen-aged kid who gets fired from Del Taco?

        Bwahahahaha!

        Seriously, who gives a crap?

        Some things in life should be taken seriously. A 19 year-old kid getting fired from Del Taco... Is not one of those things.

        I'd again, question what kinds of pressures are on you and that you were raised with if you think it is, actually.

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        • #19
          Pretty much sounds like my 20 year old son after actually achieving something during high school. I laid it on the line and he got pissed off and then I told him the real hard truth that he's been a big disappointment. He hung up deleted me off of facebook and posted that he's now a bastard child. I had to tell him the truth and i'm not the type of parent who'll ever enable their child to do "nothing". He'll come around someday and hopefully see that he's wrong....if he doesn't it's all on him. I did my part as a parent and hounded the living heck out of him until he was 19.

          Your buddy sucks and it's best not to waste YOUR time handing around with someone who is obviously heading in a different direction that you are. It's not your job to ensure he lives a good life. Our society has way to many losers who are enabled by girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, parents and our government in general. I say let them all fall on their face so maybe it'll wake them up and learn a lesson while they are young.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sharp_shepherd View Post
            Pretty much sounds like my 20 year old son after actually achieving something during high school. I laid it on the line and he got pissed off and then I told him the real hard truth that he's been a big disappointment. He hung up deleted me off of facebook and posted that he's now a bastard child. I had to tell him the truth and i'm not the type of parent who'll ever enable their child to do "nothing". He'll come around someday and hopefully see that he's wrong....if he doesn't it's all on him. I did my part as a parent and hounded the living heck out of him until he was 19.

            Your buddy sucks and it's best not to waste YOUR time handing around with someone who is obviously heading in a different direction that you are. It's not your job to ensure he lives a good life. Our society has way to many losers who are enabled by girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, parents and our government in general. I say let them all fall on their face so maybe it'll wake them up and learn a lesson while they are young.
            From the age of 15 until 17, I went to school MAYBE two days a week. The only reason I went that often is because there was this girl I was chasing at the time. When she moved to Pennsylvania, I stopped going altogether.

            I had also gotten kicked out of three different high schools. The first for attendance and general trouble-making, including one pipe bomb in a toilet and a fire in the Home Ec Department (not the same incident). Of course that was pre-Columbine, so they just kicked me out rather than calling the Department of Homeland Security on me (which thankfully, didn't exist at the time).

            The second school I got kicked out of for repeated fights, truancy, bad grades, property destruction, and I ran over the campus cop when he tried to stop me from leaving campus one day. Oh, and I was constantly smoking too, which the teachers didn't love about me.

            The third I just flat out didn't bother to go to.

            I then went to an "alternative" high school. I didn't bother to show up for that, either, and eventually I guess they took me off the books.


            I did have jobs, and I always kept jobs, but I mostly sat around on my butt getting into trouble and doing some of the same things the OP talks about. Playing video games, shooting pool, bowling, hanging out with friends... "Doing something close to nothing."

            To boot, I had been on probation from the time I was about 11 until I was 20.


            My mom was at her wit's end, and she screamed and yelled and tried everything she could think of to "save" me. Nothing worked. She tried everything except just letting it go and waiting it out.

            When I turned 20, I had some things happen in my life, things that no one else could control, things I couldn't control, and things that tend to just happen in most people's lives at some stage or another. For whatever reason, I just kind of decided I was tired of living like I had.

            "The light switch came on."

            I finished up all of my lingering probation issues from when I was a minor, went back to the last Alternative High School (McLain in Lakewood if anyone is curious), got my GED...

            Then I applied the credits for my GED, took a few more tests, and got my high school diploma. The reason I needed the diploma is because the military wouldn't take a GED.

            12 hours after I graduated high school I was on Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, preparing for entry into Operation Desert Storm.

            Four years later, after having been promoted faster than all 60+ members of my basic training unit, after having been given all sorts of awards from wing commanders, generals, and even Congressmen, I opted to go into the reserves so that I could go to college.

            I pretty much had to "hound my way" into Western State College, which has the colorful nickname of "Wasted State." My high school GPA was a whoppin' 1.9, and that was because of the generosity of the teachers. Even Wasted State didn't want me. But I hounded the professor of the department I wanted to major in, and they let me in.

            4.5 years later I graduated with national honors in two majors, as well as my overall GPA.

            Last year, I completed my Masters of Education, again with national honors, from the University of Denver. I'm awaiting my place at two doctorate programs - both at top 50 universities.

            I've been fired from one job in my entire life, and I'm pretty sure that it was because someone else was stealing from my drawer. I've had an amazing career running my own business, and then working in PR for - ironically - a video game company.

            I'm now trying to find a job as a teacher.



            But from 15-20, you couldn't have found a bigger slacker than me - aside from everyone else in the world that I knew that was doing the same thing.

            Yeah, there's a light switch. Yes, it really does come on.

            My story's not unique. Almost every male in my family did this. My nephew is about to graduate from High School. He will be the first male in our entire family who actually graduates high school the year he is supposed to, without flunking a grade, dropping out, or having to stay extra time.


            The first one ever. In my entire family.

            Yet somehow... There ain't a stupid one in the bunch, and none of us are lazy.

            Really, truly. I would so not sweat this. Sometimes people just want to explore the world instead of another book.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Alastor View Post
              You don't.

              It's really none of your business. I'm not sure how old he is, but it sounds like early 20s at the most. This isn't abnormal behavior. The guy had a job and he spent some money on things he wanted. Imagine that.

              he plays vids and has a girlfriend you don't think he cares that much about. Even if true, this too is not abnormal, especially at that age.

              He lives in his dad's basement. So what? I know a lot of people that lived with their parents until they either got married or got their masters degrees in their 30s. I know teachers that still live with their parents if they're not married. I know other people that do the same just to save money. My little sister is one of them, and she makes more money than my brother and I put together (and neither of us are starving either).

              There's nothing to "confront" here. If you don't care for his choices, distance yourself from him and from those choices, but they're his choices to make and he's not doing anything wrong.

              I think if you try to assert yourself here, you're going to create an awful lot of tension that is hard to get over, and for things that it's really no one's business but his own (or their own in the case of the girlfriend and the other friend).

              You can do it if you want, but if you were my little brother I'd tell you to let other people make their own choices. You worry about your choices.

              They're not hurting anyone and he's entitled to do what he's doing. When that changes, so will my stance.

              Right now however... I think you're asking for trouble that down the road, you'll see was mostly trouble of your own creation for things you should not have been raising dander over in the first place.



              It's always possible there's more to the story than what's present in the first post, but based on what's present... It's not a huge crisis and it's not your place. I'd let it go.

              PS: Your other friend isn't "being dragged down."

              He too, is making a choice. A choice he has every right to make.



              I really wouldn't confront anyone here. They're not doing anything wrong, and they have the right to do those things. It's also not at all unusual. Based on what's present in this thread, I don't even see where you think the problem actually is. Because a 20 year old kid would rather play games, make out with girls, and sleep late rather than go to classes? Really?

              No kiddin' huh? How very strange... "The Hell you say!"

              ::stare::




              I'd kind of look at why you felt it was a problem and why you felt it was your duty/right to intervene more than the behavior of your friends actually.

              If you were my little brother.
              Good post, Alastor. I tend to agree with this; not everyone wants to go to college, get a high paying job, a big house, a nice car, etc. Some people are just different. If he's not abusing drugs and being a menace to society, just let him be.

              I've had friends like this, and I just learned that we want different things and that maybe I should spend more of my time hanging out with different people.

              EDIT: Wow after reading your last post, you've came a long way. Good for you, it's much easier to keep heading down the road you were, instead of turning your life around.
              Last edited by BluenOrnge4Life; 03-01-2011, 05:32 PM.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by BluenOrnge4Life View Post
                EDIT: Wow after reading your last post, you've came a long way. Good for you, it's much easier to keep heading down the road you were, instead of turning your life around.
                Thanks. But I kind of think it was always in my nature. I always had a job. I always worked hard. I was always capable. There were just other factors at work.

                Once those factors were removed, I just got the chance to be the person I always was.

                I don't know how much I "turned anything around" as much as that's who I was built to be.

                But that's really neither here nor there. The point is that I knew a lot of kids at the time, and to this day this remains the case, that take several years away from "being responsible" to actually go out and explore the world, and begin to truly live.

                Whether this takes the form of a backpack and a trip to Europe, a motorcycle and a pack of bikers on a cross-country tour, Job Corps, Peace Corps, the military, sitting on a couch relaxing, or just plain farting around in Denver for 5 years...

                Lots of kids want to explore their world. It's not a crisis.

                Now, when he's 35... Let's talk about it. But right now? Pffft. As long as he ain't burnin' the house down, he's fine.

                In my mind at least.

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                • #23
                  I know how you feel, my best friend is very similar. We're both juniors and high school and he thinks he's going to college and such. But his grades are poor and It's easy to see that he wont be going anywhere. It hurts because he also plays video games a lot, along with chasing women and just being lazy.

                  I agree with what Alastor said earlier, I don't think it's any of my business. I've sort of tried to get him to shape up, but you can't change a person. That's up to them.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by sharp_shepherd View Post
                    Pretty much sounds like my 20 year old son after actually achieving something during high school. I laid it on the line and he got pissed off and then I told him the real hard truth that he's been a big disappointment. He hung up deleted me off of facebook and posted that he's now a bastard child. I had to tell him the truth and i'm not the type of parent who'll ever enable their child to do "nothing". He'll come around someday and hopefully see that he's wrong....if he doesn't it's all on him. I did my part as a parent and hounded the living heck out of him until he was 19.

                    Your buddy sucks and it's best not to waste YOUR time handing around with someone who is obviously heading in a different direction that you are. It's not your job to ensure he lives a good life. Our society has way to many losers who are enabled by girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, parents and our government in general. I say let them all fall on their face so maybe it'll wake them up and learn a lesson while they are young.
                    You're something else. And I wouldn't count on him coming around. There's not many things in a kids life that mean more than their fathers approval and you basically just told him you'd rather not have him as a son.

                    I hope you can live your life without your son. Because I've seen this before and it doesn't end like you think it will, most of the time.
                    sigpic
                    2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sharp_shepherd View Post
                      Pretty much sounds like my 20 year old son after actually achieving something during high school. I laid it on the line and he got pissed off and then I told him the real hard truth that he's been a big disappointment. He hung up deleted me off of facebook and posted that he's now a bastard child. I had to tell him the truth and i'm not the type of parent who'll ever enable their child to do "nothing". He'll come around someday and hopefully see that he's wrong....if he doesn't it's all on him. I did my part as a parent and hounded the living heck out of him until he was 19.

                      Your buddy sucks and it's best not to waste YOUR time handing around with someone who is obviously heading in a different direction that you are. It's not your job to ensure he lives a good life. Our society has way to many losers who are enabled by girlfriends, boyfriends, friends, parents and our government in general. I say let them all fall on their face so maybe it'll wake them up and learn a lesson while they are young.
                      I'm 17 and I completely agree with what you did. And I think he will come around, hopefully sooner than later.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by housemouse View Post
                        I'm 17 and I completely agree with what you did. And I think he will come around, hopefully sooner than later.
                        Maybe... but maybe you'll think differently when you get out in the real world.

                        Maybe people shouldn't judge others. Maybe I'm defending someone who is a POS and I don't know their situation.
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                        2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx View Post
                          I can see Al's point of view to of not confronting him about this but then what happens if he is still like that in 10 years?
                          I agree with what Alastor was saying .... In ten years its not where he will be that matters its where you will be ... A lot can and will change in ten years including friendships and perspective of them ....

                          Outside of that ... Granted venting helps at times but it seems you're being rather harsh on your friend because of your own expectations of how he should be ... I would imagine he could find you guilty of similar things ...


                          Originally posted by sharp_shepherd View Post
                          Pretty much sounds like my 20 year old son after actually achieving something during high school. I laid it on the line and he got pissed off and then I told him the real hard truth that he's been a big disappointment. He hung up deleted me off of facebook and posted that he's now a bastard child. I had to tell him the truth and i'm not the type of parent who'll ever enable their child to do "nothing". He'll come around someday and hopefully see that he's wrong....if he doesn't it's all on him. I did my part as a parent and hounded the living heck out of him until he was 19.
                          I'm rather taken back by this... I think something is lost in translations here and the entire picture is not being painted.....

                          But with what you have posted...Just wondering ... What ownership if any do you take in him being a big disappointment .. ?

                          I also wanted to know and I imagine some do .... Do you believe your job as a parent ended when he became a young adult ....I'm puzzled by the comment "I did my part as a parent and hounded him"
                          Last edited by LarryDean; 03-01-2011, 06:56 PM.
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                          • #28
                            You are definitely right I was raised extremely differently than his parents.

                            What you dug into though goes far beyond anything I expected but yeah.. Some answers to your questions would be no I'm not jealous of what he's doing if I'm being honest and yeah I'd be scared as hell if I ended up doing what he's doing because it's not like I'm not a 20 year old too. I've definitely had my share of playing too much video games but I would never want to do it to his extent.

                            I guess there's more to the situation then you would know. He actually does do marijuana/alcohol/cigs but what really makes me want to confront him about this is that he's talked about drinking when he's sad about his life which is probably a lot seeing that there's so many bottle of vodka and other stuff in his basement. So that's what ultimately makes me think he bought all that crap which was to use that to occupy himself from thinking about all that crap in his life.

                            But then once you realize he's now addicted to video games and playing over 15 hours a day every day for the past 6 months it makes me feel bad for him. I probably should have mentioned something about when I started this thread but I didn't expect to have it go this far. So yeah I'm afraid he's going to end up like his dad who is a drunk or his mom who is like 40 with no job and still living with her mom who's like 80 living off of her pension money. He honestly has no real good role models in his life and I just wanted to help him which I don't think has anything to do with me.

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                            • #29
                              similar best friend hear...


                              first got left back 3 straight years..

                              then dropped out..

                              then started hanging out with older people

                              then did coke no bueno
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                I'm getting a bench press very soon. I haven't been working out diligently since I stopped football in freshmen year of high school. Hows about I get him to start working out with me once the thing comes instead of full out confronting him and starting trouble?

                                He actually liked working out for a little while until he couldn't pay for gym membership so that's something I could lean towards.

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