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70 Years Later, Remembering D-Day.

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  • #16
    My Dad was in the USAAF in WWII. He flew a number of different planes before he was stationed in the India/China/Burma theater. He flew Curtiss C-46 Commando cargo planes over the Himalayan Mountains supplying the Chinese Army. As the only member of my family left in this world, I have all his photo albums from the war. Dad's ashes are at Fort Logan about thirty feet away from my brother's.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • #17
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      Thank you Peerless.

      .

      May God Bless all men and women of our Armed Forces, past and present
      The Only Thing Necessary For The Triumph Of Evil Is For Good Men To Do Nothing
      http://www.navyjack.info/history.html
      My Adopted Bronco is #95 Derek Wolfe

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
        Considering the Axis nations included Germany, Italy and Japan - along with the Germany-USSR treaty at the beginning of WW2 this is a hard point to argue. There is only so much one country can do.

        After Germany invaded Poland on 1st September 1939 Britain were the first country to declare war on Germany, just 2 days later, and were supported by France.

        On 22nd June 1940 France were defeated.

        On 19th of July 1940 Hitler tried to make peace with Britain stating that he would leave our empire alone, Britain rejected this treaty.

        For the next year until Germany invaded the USSR (22nd June, 1941) Britain, along with help from its empire, fought alone to stop Europe falling. Britain defeated the German airforce in the 'Battle of Britain', even after the blitz, and stopped their Navy from recording significant victories.

        Britain winning the Battle of Britain meant that Germany never gained air superiority so Hitler abandoned Operation Sealion and turned his attention to the invasion of Russia, which was always his objective. Whether losing the air battle would have meant that a German invasion was inevitable is debatable but likely, although the Royal Navy was far more powerful than the German navy.

        The 'battle of britain' was the single most important event in WW2. If Germany had defeated our air force they would have invaded Britain, victory there and command of our empire would of meant Berlin would have been capital of the world.

        The war efforts of the USA were very important, but they entered the war 2 years after it started. If Britain fell they would of been facing a German empire that would have taken over the world and we would all probably be speaking German right now, not English
        While i agree it was immensely important i dont think one battle in particular can be the most important event in the war...
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        Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by canadiansbronco View Post
          While i agree it was immensely important i dont think one battle in particular can be the most important event in the war...
          If the Battle of Britain or the Battle of the Atlantic had gone the other way, the Axis might have won the war.

          Britain's integrated radar, telecommunication system, visual spotters and unified command and control for the RAF with its Spitfires, Hurricanes and Beaufighters was an obstacle the Luftwaffe might have been able to overcome if it had been built for the job and led properly. The decision to switch from attacking the RAF facilities to bombing London was a stupid error on Hitler and Goering's part, and was the kind of mistake that would be often repeated.

          The Luftwaffe was more of a tactical air force than a strategic one. RAF Bomber Command was far more capable of strategic bombing and it started proving that early on. The Luftwaffe bombers didn't have the bomb load, defensive firepower and fighter protection to successfully conduct daytime bombing operations. They got torn up. By the time they switched to night bombing, airborne radar sets were fitted to the Beaufighter and the Luftwaffe found they couldn't conduct night bombing with impunity.

          In order to invade England, the Luftwaffe needed air superiority (I love the British term "air supremacy" ) so that they could sink the Royal Navy when the Germans crossed the Channel. They never even came close. I suppose the Battle of Britain might have gone the other way. It was certainly a terrifying experience for the Brits. 20,000 civilians were killed in the Blitz.

          Fortunately, the Brits handled the Luftwaffe, and the US gave just enough help in the Atlantic prior to entering the war to keep the supply lines open to Britain. FDR was a genius in that aspect. :2cents:
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #20
            It's amazing how the allies overcame the wolf-pack's Atlantic Ocean dominance. It took a long time and after countless merchant vessels were sunk time after time they finally found some ways to combat those pesky submariners.

            The wolf-packs became so proficient and confident in their tactics that a single sub could attack an entire convoy in those special formations with impunity. They'd hit n run again and again. Those little subs could hide between merchant vessels and even if they were seen - they couldn't be shot at without taking out neighboring merchant vessels. But again the allies put their heads together and finally found lots of ways to combat those sneaky whack a mole U boats.

            Cracking those Enigma codes was one of the big developments that helped allied convoys steer clear of the wolf-packs and get much needed supplies to where they needed to be. For a long time though it seemed like no matter what the allies tried- those U-boats just always had their way with the them. Another tactic was bombing the port or 'sub pens' where they'd service the U-boats. Those things in addition to the advances in radar and sonar turned the tide in the Atlantic.

            Yes, Sam. If Hitler was just a little smarter - or even a little more conservative he could have saved a lot of his assets so they could fight another day. But I guess he started losing his mind. Or maybe his 'all in' approach was always a part of his philosophy and yea it worked when he was winning battles - maybe he put too much confidence into the method. Maybe he considered 'never retreat' the key to his success. But retreat is a necessary option at times. It's ok to retreat sometimes. This 'all in' thought process allowed the Allies to take advantage and eliminate pockets who could have backed up and regrouped with other pockets and made life even tougher for us. Hitler made some huge blunders there in his second half of his war

            The U-boat story in the Atlantic is another great example of the Allie's persistence until they overcame the problem. It looked hopeless for so long. But they kept at it and rose above. no pun intended

            There are some great dox on the U-boats and how we overcame them.
            The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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            • #21
              Something I found which may of been a reason -

              The bombing of Berlin by the RAF in retaliation to German bombs on London did cause the Germans to switch their targets over England.

              Whether Churchill actually intended this is debatable but the effect did, as you stated, take the bombers away from the RAF airfields which were suffering terribly.

              Hitler ordered the bombing in retaliation for Royal Air Force bombing of Germany, but the strategic thinking was that it would force the weakened RAF to come up and defend London, and there be destroyed [interestingly this is exactly what the USAAF did to Germany in February 1944]. The British had themselves been forced to abandon daylight raids on specific targets because of massive bomber losses to defending fighters, so hitting 'area targets' such as cities was all that was left to them, apart from leaving Nazi Germany untouched by the war.

              But Hitler was not simply responding to a lust for revenge (and Germany had already fire-bombed Rotterdam in Holland, destroying 1/4 of the city). He had expected the British to seek peace after the fall of France and was extremely frustrated that both an invasion was necessary, and at the failure of Luftwaffe attacks on British air bases to subdue the Royal Air Force. Goering, head of the Luftwaffe, kept reporting British air bases destroyed and massive numbers of fighters shot down, but still each raid was vigorously opposed

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              • #22
                Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                It's amazing how the allies overcame the wolf-pack's Atlantic Ocean dominance. It took a long time and after countless merchant vessels were sunk time after time they finally found some ways to combat those pesky submariners.

                The wolf-packs became so proficient and confident in their tactics that a single sub could attack an entire convoy in those special formations with impunity. They'd hit n run again and again. Those little subs could hide between merchant vessels and even if they were seen - they couldn't be shot at without taking out neighboring merchant vessels. But again the allies put their heads together and finally found lots of ways to combat those sneaky whack a mole U boats.

                Cracking those Enigma codes was one of the big developments that helped allied convoys steer clear of the wolf-packs and get much needed supplies to where they needed to be. For a long time though it seemed like no matter what the allies tried- those U-boats just always had their way with the them. Another tactic was bombing the port or 'sub pens' where they'd service the U-boats. Those things in addition to the advances in radar and sonar turned the tide in the Atlantic.

                Yes, Sam. If Hitler was just a little smarter - or even a little more conservative he could have saved a lot of his assets so they could fight another day. But I guess he started losing his mind. Or maybe his 'all in' approach was always a part of his philosophy and yea it worked when he was winning battles - maybe he put too much confidence into the method. Maybe he considered 'never retreat' the key to his success. But retreat is a necessary option at times. It's ok to retreat sometimes. This 'all in' thought process allowed the Allies to take advantage and eliminate pockets who could have backed up and regrouped with other pockets and made life even tougher for us. Hitler made some huge blunders there in his second half of his war

                The U-boat story in the Atlantic is another great example of the Allie's persistence until they overcame the problem. It looked hopeless for so long. But they kept at it and rose above. no pun intended

                There are some great dox on the U-boats and how we overcame them.
                It was nice that the British Government finally pardoned Alan Turing, who basically won the war from Bletchley Park while inventing the computer, at the end of last year. The government should have never allowed the inhuman treatment to which he was subjected. :2cents:
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
                  Something I found which may of been a reason -

                  The bombing of Berlin by the RAF in retaliation to German bombs on London did cause the Germans to switch their targets over England.

                  Whether Churchill actually intended this is debatable but the effect did, as you stated, take the bombers away from the RAF airfields which were suffering terribly.

                  Hitler ordered the bombing in retaliation for Royal Air Force bombing of Germany, but the strategic thinking was that it would force the weakened RAF to come up and defend London, and there be destroyed [interestingly this is exactly what the USAAF did to Germany in February 1944]. The British had themselves been forced to abandon daylight raids on specific targets because of massive bomber losses to defending fighters, so hitting 'area targets' such as cities was all that was left to them, apart from leaving Nazi Germany untouched by the war.

                  But Hitler was not simply responding to a lust for revenge (and Germany had already fire-bombed Rotterdam in Holland, destroying 1/4 of the city). He had expected the British to seek peace after the fall of France and was extremely frustrated that both an invasion was necessary, and at the failure of Luftwaffe attacks on British air bases to subdue the Royal Air Force. Goering, head of the Luftwaffe, kept reporting British air bases destroyed and massive numbers of fighters shot down, but still each raid was vigorously opposed

                  I was always told that the switch to bombing London was the massive losses of planes and pilots in the dogfights over the channel and near the coast.

                  Mostly because the British Radar being able to vector to the incoming flights. At a certain point Goering realized he could not defeat the Spitfires. Since his planes used up a lot of their fuel coming and going there actual flight/FIGHT time was limited. Whereas the Brits could keep planes on the ground until they knew they were coming.

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                  • #24
                    I recently found out my Grandpa helped in the air champagne that paved the way for the ground troops. The boys and men that fight to take that beach should never be forgotten.
                    Ask me about My Jesus and how to have a relationship with Him.

                    Red Sox Mafia RLF4 Life! Boston 617 Strong!
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