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    Please everyone, meaning everyone, be civil on this issue. We really want to keep this thread open.

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    • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
      Because if you are irresponsible and help spread the disease in your rural area people get sick and go visit other people who get sick, so on and so on...

      Just because you're in an isolated area doesn't mean you shouldn't pitch in to keep things from getting out of hand.
      Once this becomes a trend, it will get real scary in this country. We thought the March lockdown was rough.

      https://people.com/health/85-infants...navirus-texas/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
        My point was about it being Dr Fauci saying it was more infectious based on data correlations was just to counter what you seemed to be saying as it must be people not wearing masks. I think it is more complicated than just wearing...or not wearing...masks.

        In fact it is were solely based on people wearing masks I would say LA Country numbers should be going down instead of increasing because almost everyone I see in LA County is wearing a mask with very few exceptions and that county has always had stricter restrictions than the rest of the state. For some reasons it is one of the worst counties in California even though it is pretty strict about masks and social distancing.

        On the second point about some people having financial motivation to express their opinion...if you do not see that in the world today than you must be ignoring a lot of what goes on. There are people who do not care about the world economy as long as they are making money. Do you even realize some people are profiting during these times?
        I agree it’s obviously more complicated than that, I noted that multiple times. But I think not acknowledging the aspect of compliance is both ignorant and naïve, regardless if it is later confirmed America had a more infectious strain. I have also been reading the articles like you linked where they are saying it has “maybe” mutated and “might be” more potent now, it’s not actually confirmed, but I know the politicians will love that to be true to try and explain why America has been so horrible at preventing the spread.

        May I ask what you do for work where you are seeing this compliance like you are saying? I am not on the ground but how long have these mass protests been occurring where social distancing and compliance to that basic directive have been ignored? It does not look to be the case at all, again giving more overwhelming proof to the non-compliance factor being a major factor.

        Finally, that is a nice broad statement which would make great news headline fodder, but dig deeper. The point you are making is that there is an altera motive for the medical community and leaders to keep information from the public because there is a lot of money to be made from a vaccine. The people who would be hiding this information would have to be the medical community and the leaders in this situation.

        You just said the people who stand to make the money don’t care about the economy, the people making the vaccines, but they are not the people who would be supressing this information on Vitamin D which again, is not solid at all. The people who you think are supressing the information are the “leaders” and the “medical community”, both of whom would of needed to be infiltrated on a worldwide level and all agreed to mass silence, not happening.

        Both of these parties would also be risking their reputation (medical community) and political lives (politicians) while actually not making this money you speak of. Honestly, the theory is non-sense which I’m sure makes great Facebook group conversation. But the fact is if the medical community had any solid evidence to recommend Vitamin D as a solution, they would advise leaders to pass on the recommendation but it hasn’t. Like most conspiracy theories, the simplest of points usually derail them

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
          Because if you are irresponsible and help spread the disease in your rural area people get sick and go visit other people who get sick, so on and so on..
          The idea that living in a remote area somehow separates you from the issues is naive. All it takes is one case, one case that spreads to two, and those two quickly become a whole community affected by the virus. The lack of understanding that exists around how a local health care system in an isolated area will be quickly overwhelmed continues to baffle me.

          This opinion is also being voiced in parts of Australia as well, but I think it comes down to a lack of education. Typically in these communities the education level is lower, not a shot, that is a fact, and the people don't understand the flow-on effect which could occur. Typically these communities also have only one economic output, which makes putting the community at risk with irresponsible and careless behaviour, potentially even more devastating to not only lives, but livelihoods.

          Honestly, if anything, living in a small remote town with a lack of big-city infrastructure and health care services available, it makes it even more irresponsible to take the careless and selfish approach some are voicing.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
            Like I said earlier, I live in a small town rural America. How is my not wearing a mask going to affect you? How am I going to affect an elderly person 1000 miles away from me? I wasn't at spring break, I don't go to bars. You attempt to bunch me into your "pathetic" group all you want.

            I'm healthy, I don't need to wear a mask just for you or anybody else a 1000 miles away. If I were in a big city maybe I would have a different view but I choose small town living for a reason... To stay away from people... To have more freedom... To have a safer life for my kids to live... To have an environment where I can let my kids walk anywhere in town and know their safe.

            I can leave my door unlocked and my garage door wide open all night and know everything is still where I left it. My life here is not your life there. Don't force my life to change here because of what is happening to you there
            No offense dude, but it really doesn't matter where you live. You may THINK since you live in small town rural America that your risk is lower, and that there is very little chance that you could affect someone 1000 miles aways - but the truth is it can easily cause an affect. Have you ever heard of how a wildfire can spread from a single little piece of amber? It's sort of like that. But still, let me break it down for you:

            Small town rural America type locations have hospitals, but they aren't top health care facilities to seek critical health care. You could easily go to your small town hospital, who may be able to manage certain minor issues related to Covid (or any other health issue). But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, if you have a critical enough patient (Covid or no covid), those hospitals don't have the same amount of resources, equipment, rooms, or even personal to manage those type of populations. That's why you see all of the top hospitals around America packed with the most critically ill patients.

            So you CAN affect someone living miles and miles away.

            You can start out being all 'free' and 'self righteous' and not wear a mask because you think you're isolated. But then, say you unfortunately somehow contact and get a + Covid infection with symptoms. Say you go to your local or closest small 'rural' town 75 bed hospital who only have 3 negative isolation rooms and limited ventilators just because that's typically not the type of population they see, or because they aren't that type of hospital who houses sick ICU patients.

            So then - you get TRANSFERRED (the magical word, something that thousands of small town patients go through) to a big city, level one trauma center with 500 beds. Oh yeah, here ya come - Mr. small town guy who didn't give a crap about protecting himself or others, and is now lying in front of me putting ME and my co-workers at risk. And then me (taking all the precautions I can), somehow catch Covid from you, and now I affect my wife and family, and on and on and on.....

            So sorry dude. I don't give a flying crap of where you live or how isolated you think you are. All it takes for one person to hurt many. And you not taking a simple, EASY prophylactic measure in just wearing a mask could cause irreparable damage down the line to either yourself, or others.

            But please, go on about how wearing a simple face mask is such an awful and huge "change of life." I'll be sure to have a violin solo serenading your pity....
            Last edited by Peerless; 07-19-2020, 07:55 AM.

            Comment


            • Toronto is one of the 2 hub cities for the NHL season completion, which will initially translate to 12 teams playing in each of TO and Edmonton, and staying there until eliminated. Lots of hotels, meals, support staff required. Not a heist financially, given no fans in the stands, but still a lucrative endeavour. And no doubt those 2 Canadian cities were chosen to some degree because The NHL approves them over others relative to the covid situation. Vancouver was late in the running until they presented covid rules that were too strict for the NHL to accept. I respect Vancouver and their leadership for their integrity.

              Yesterday it was ruled by our federal government that Toronto will not play home games when The Blue Jays resume play. Possibly one of their associated stadiums - in Buffalo or Dunedin. The risk presented by major league teams flying in and out, and staying overnight (possibly several nights), was deemed too great. My guess is that it was better to keep a positive approach to The NHL situation, which is a much bigger event given there are only 2 hub cities, then try to handle 2 sports, and a higher degree of risk. I get it. Baseball will only be 30 home games plus post season, if you make it that far. No fans in the stands. Not a biggee if you are doing a decent job of managing the virus, and given you have secured a big chunk of important hockey games and associated hotels rooms/food/etc. Any kind of outbreak could severely impair the conclusion of The NHL post season.

              This is where I wonder about The NFL. It is much easier to control the virus in hub cities. If teams travel back and forth, the risk is greater. I hope it all goes well.
              Last edited by CanDB; 07-19-2020, 09:05 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                No offense dude, but it really doesn't matter where you live. You may THINK since you live in small town rural America that your risk is lower, and that there is very little chance that you could affect someone 1000 miles aways - but the truth is it can easily cause an affect. Have you ever heard of how a wildfire can spread from a single little piece of amber? It's sort of like that. But still, let me break it down for you:

                Small town rural America type locations have hospitals, but they aren't top health care facilities to seek critical health care. You could easily go to your small town hospital, who may be able to manage certain minor issues related to Covid (or any other health issue). But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, if you have a critical enough patient (Covid or no covid), those hospitals don't have the same amount of resources, equipment, rooms, or even personal to manage those type of populations. That's why you see all of the top hospitals around America packed with the most critically ill patients.

                So you CAN affect someone living miles and miles away.

                You can start out being all 'free' and 'self righteous' and not wear a mask because you think you're isolated. But then, say you unfortunately somehow contact and get a + Covid infection with symptoms. Say you go to your local or closest small 'rural' town 75 bed hospital who only have 3 negative isolation rooms and limited ventilators just because that's typically not the type of population they see, or because they aren't that type of hospital who houses sick ICU patients.

                So then - you get TRANSFERRED (the magical word, something that thousands of small town patients go through) to a big city, level one trauma center with 500 beds. Oh yeah, here ya come - Mr. small town guy who didn't give a crap about protecting himself or others, and is now lying in front of me putting ME and my co-workers at risk. And then me (taking all the precautions I can), somehow catch Covid from you, and now I affect my wife and family, and on and on and on.....

                So sorry dude. I don't give a flying crap of where you live or how isolated you think you are. All it takes for one person to hurt many. And you not taking a simple, EASY prophylactic measure in just wearing a mask could cause irreparable damage down the line to either yourself, or others.

                But please, go on about how wearing a simple face mask is such an awful and huge "change of life." I'll be sure to have a violin solo serenading your pity....
                When it boils down to it, I'd much rather listen to you, a professional in the medical field than some small town rural dude... But that's just me...
                sigpic

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                  No offense dude, but it really doesn't matter where you live. You may THINK since you live in small town rural America that your risk is lower, and that there is very little chance that you could affect someone 1000 miles aways - but the truth is it can easily cause an affect. Have you ever heard of how a wildfire can spread from a single little piece of amber? It's sort of like that. But still, let me break it down for you:

                  Small town rural America type locations have hospitals, but they aren't top health care facilities to seek critical health care. You could easily go to your small town hospital, who may be able to manage certain minor issues related to Covid (or any other health issue). But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, if you have a critical enough patient (Covid or no covid), those hospitals don't have the same amount of resources, equipment, rooms, or even personal to manage those type of populations. That's why you see all of the top hospitals around America packed with the most critically ill patients.

                  So you CAN affect someone living miles and miles away.

                  You can start out being all 'free' and 'self righteous' and not wear a mask because you think you're isolated. But then, say you unfortunately somehow contact and get a + Covid infection with symptoms. Say you go to your local or closest small 'rural' town 75 bed hospital who only have 3 negative isolation rooms and limited ventilators just because that's typically not the type of population they see, or because they aren't that type of hospital who houses sick ICU patients.

                  So then - you get TRANSFERRED (the magical word, something that thousands of small town patients go through) to a big city, level one trauma center with 500 beds. Oh yeah, here ya come - Mr. small town guy who didn't give a crap about protecting himself or others, and is now lying in front of me putting ME and my co-workers at risk. And then me (taking all the precautions I can), somehow catch Covid from you, and now I affect my wife and family, and on and on and on.....

                  So sorry dude. I don't give a flying crap of where you live or how isolated you think you are. All it takes for one person to hurt many. And you not taking a simple, EASY prophylactic measure in just wearing a mask could cause irreparable damage down the line to either yourself, or others.

                  But please, go on about how wearing a simple face mask is such an awful and huge "change of life." I'll be sure to have a violin solo serenading your pity....
                  Love you brother, I'm done arguing over this. I'm not changing your mind and you're not changing mine. I'll leave with this.....


                  https://youtu.be/h8upEg-bEJ8

                  I know you think I have tunnel vision but I ask you to watch/listen and understand why I feel why I feel. I know and understand why you want people to where masks. To stop whatever germs I have in my system to get out. But, imo, wearing these masks long term is an issue in itself.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                    No offense dude, but it really doesn't matter where you live. You may THINK since you live in small town rural America that your risk is lower, and that there is very little chance that you could affect someone 1000 miles aways - but the truth is it can easily cause an affect. Have you ever heard of how a wildfire can spread from a single little piece of amber? It's sort of like that. But still, let me break it down for you:

                    Small town rural America type locations have hospitals, but they aren't top health care facilities to seek critical health care. You could easily go to your small town hospital, who may be able to manage certain minor issues related to Covid (or any other health issue). But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, if you have a critical enough patient (Covid or no covid), those hospitals don't have the same amount of resources, equipment, rooms, or even personal to manage those type of populations. That's why you see all of the top hospitals around America packed with the most critically ill patients.

                    So you CAN affect someone living miles and miles away.

                    You can start out being all 'free' and 'self righteous' and not wear a mask because you think you're isolated. But then, say you unfortunately somehow contact and get a + Covid infection with symptoms. Say you go to your local or closest small 'rural' town 75 bed hospital who only have 3 negative isolation rooms and limited ventilators just because that's typically not the type of population they see, or because they aren't that type of hospital who houses sick ICU patients.

                    So then - you get TRANSFERRED (the magical word, something that thousands of small town patients go through) to a big city, level one trauma center with 500 beds. Oh yeah, here ya come - Mr. small town guy who didn't give a crap about protecting himself or others, and is now lying in front of me putting ME and my co-workers at risk. And then me (taking all the precautions I can), somehow catch Covid from you, and now I affect my wife and family, and on and on and on.....

                    So sorry dude. I don't give a flying crap of where you live or how isolated you think you are. All it takes for one person to hurt many. And you not taking a simple, EASY prophylactic measure in just wearing a mask could cause irreparable damage down the line to either yourself, or others.

                    But please, go on about how wearing a simple face mask is such an awful and huge "change of life." I'll be sure to have a violin solo serenading your pity....
                    COVID-19 spread quickly on the Navajo Reservation once it was introduced probably by tourists driving to and from the Grand Canyon. At one time during the past few months their infection rate was the highest per capita in the country. For several months, Navajo Nation has had an 8 PM - 5 AM curfew Monday through Thursday and Friday night through Monday morning. Access to Gallup was closed for ten days in the Spring.

                    Approximately 175,000 tribal members live on the reservation. They have reported 8.568 positive COVID-19 cases out of 72,711 tests administered with 6,345 reported recoveries and 412 deaths.

                    One of my daughters is an RN at UNM Hospital in ABQ. At one point she told me the ICU patients in her unit were all Native American except for one. The Medevac aircraft have been busy bringing patients to ABQ medical facilities. The Navajo Reservation is in AZ, NM and UT, and a number of patients have been brought to NM from the AZ part of the reservation. Some of this has been because medical facilities in Arizona have been swamped and are near or over capacity.

                    Most of New Mexico's nineteen pueblos have been closed to the public since March. One of the Apache reservations closed down for several weeks.

                    As you say, many rural areas in our state have no medical facilities except for the County Seat or largest town which have minimal capability. The outbreak in the Four Corners has leveled off some, but has shifted to counties on the border with Texas. NM has been trying to prevent the spread, but has suffered a setback since reopening certain businesses. That has been rolled back. Current emphasis is on masks and crowd control, but there is some pushback. One wonders how much lax efforts in neighboring states has affected our numbers. NM State Parks are closed to out-of-state vacationers.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                      Love you brother, I'm done arguing over this. I'm not changing your mind and you're not changing mine. I'll leave with this.....


                      https://youtu.be/h8upEg-bEJ8

                      I know you think I have tunnel vision but I ask you to watch/listen and understand why I feel why I feel. I know and understand why you want people to where masks. To stop whatever germs I have in my system to get out. But, imo, wearing these masks long term is an issue in itself.
                      I’ll retort with this video. Just asking the simple question....why not?

                      https://youtu.be/m0-5RDrFc2s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                        I’ll retort with this video. Just asking the simple question....why not?

                        https://youtu.be/m0-5RDrFc2s
                        My reasoning is best explained in the video I shared.

                        Plus, it's hard for me to believe any "fact" that the CDC or WHO throw up for us to soak in. I have a buddy that conducted an experiment a couple weeks ago. He lives in LA, he heard about people testing positive without even testing. People are calling in and making appointments to get tested and just not showing up and getting called back saying they tested positive. He attempted it and sure enough, he tested positive. He told them on the phone he never even went and they said he test is submitted and counted and they'll check back in 14 days. Now, I'm supposed to just fall in line and do as I'm told??

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                          I’ll retort with this video. Just asking the simple question....why not?

                          https://youtu.be/m0-5RDrFc2s
                          Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                          My reasoning is best explained in the video I shared.

                          Plus, it's hard for me to believe any "fact" that the CDC or WHO throw up for us to soak in. I have a buddy that conducted an experiment a couple weeks ago. He lives in LA, he heard about people testing positive without even testing. People are calling in and making appointments to get tested and just not showing up and getting called back saying they tested positive. He attempted it and sure enough, he tested positive. He told them on the phone he never even went and they said he test is submitted and counted and they'll check back in 14 days. Now, I'm supposed to just fall in line and do as I'm told??
                          Fascinating what happens when people can't trust the media. Science mixed with hypocrisy sets an egregious precedent. Sadly, we all lose...and what is objectively occurring in the world depends very much on what news channel you are watching.

                          Necessary critical facts are lost amongst an oceanic cesspool of politically driven gibberish...and we all lose because of it.

                          Stay safe out there folks, and good luck! :thumb:
                          To infinity...and beyond.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                            Love you brother, I'm done arguing over this. I'm not changing your mind and you're not changing mine. I'll leave with this.....


                            https://youtu.be/h8upEg-bEJ8

                            I know you think I have tunnel vision but I ask you to watch/listen and understand why I feel why I feel. I know and understand why you want people to where masks. To stop whatever germs I have in my system to get out. But, imo, wearing these masks long term is an issue in itself.
                            Yeah, I figured you'd be done after my last reply.... There was really no talking your way out of that one.

                            Anyways, the video? LOL. C'mon..

                            The first two studies this dude references are comparing n95 mask vs surgical mask effectiveness NOT mask vs virus effectiveness. The fact that people can watch this video and not pick up on that shows how scientifically illiterate, and easily manipulated, people are...
                            Last edited by Peerless; 07-19-2020, 07:59 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              COVID-19 spread quickly on the Navajo Reservation once it was introduced probably by tourists driving to and from the Grand Canyon. At one time during the past few months their infection rate was the highest per capita in the country. For several months, Navajo Nation has had an 8 PM - 5 AM curfew Monday through Thursday and Friday night through Monday morning. Access to Gallup was closed for ten days in the Spring.

                              Approximately 175,000 tribal members live on the reservation. They have reported 8.568 positive COVID-19 cases out of 72,711 tests administered with 6,345 reported recoveries and 412 deaths.

                              One of my daughters is an RN at UNM Hospital in ABQ. At one point she told me the ICU patients in her unit were all Native American except for one. The Medevac aircraft have been busy bringing patients to ABQ medical facilities. The Navajo Reservation is in AZ, NM and UT, and a number of patients have been brought to NM from the AZ part of the reservation. Some of this has been because medical facilities in Arizona have been swamped and are near or over capacity.

                              Most of New Mexico's nineteen pueblos have been closed to the public since March. One of the Apache reservations closed down for several weeks.

                              As you say, many rural areas in our state have no medical facilities except for the County Seat or largest town which have minimal capability. The outbreak in the Four Corners has leveled off some, but has shifted to counties on the border with Texas. NM has been trying to prevent the spread, but has suffered a setback since reopening certain businesses. That has been rolled back. Current emphasis is on masks and crowd control, but there is some pushback. One wonders how much lax efforts in neighboring states has affected our numbers. NM State Parks are closed to out-of-state vacationers.
                              The state of Arizona has now passed New York state in cases per million people. On that metric it is now the worst state in the USA.

                              A few days ago the news started reporting the in Arizona it has gotten so bad that refrigeration trucks have been brought in to store dead bodies.
                              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                                The state of Arizona has now passed New York state in cases per million people. On that metric it is now the worst state in the USA.

                                A few days ago the news started reporting the in Arizona it has gotten so bad that refrigeration trucks have been brought in to store dead bodies.
                                I thought no one died from this virus though? or like less than 1%.... (this post is sarcastic, in case you missed it)
                                sigpic

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