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  • Originally posted by EddieMac View Post

    Well said...and it funny that people that say the economy isn’t as important as health are those that have essential service jobs, or are retired and get a fixed pension.

    it’s easy to pick a side when you know your check is coming on time every time ......
    In my experience its been the same. Everyone screaming for total lockdowns would have no disruption to their income and/or ability to pay expenditures.

    I do know several people (including immediate family) that have economically struggled badly with lockdowns, businesses in my community that have failed, and rampant depression and other mental health issues affiliated.

    I would be curious to see the number of struggling small business owners demanding lockdowns.
    To infinity...and beyond.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

      In my experience its been the same. Everyone screaming for total lockdowns would have no disruption to their income and/or ability to pay expenditures.

      I do know several people (including immediate family) that have economically struggled badly with lockdowns, businesses in my community that have failed, and rampant depression and other mental health issues affiliated.

      I would be curious to see the number of struggling small business owners demanding lockdowns.
      i see I was quoted several times...lume you said what i meant to better,,, “those that have no disruptions to their income” is a better way to put it.. with the two types I have being examples..

      and Hadez has a good point about some people benefitting from Covid.. even I got perks with my work car being allowed home for a few months.. that saved me $60 a week in gas alone...

      some people in Canada are getting government benefits that exceed their wages so there has been no incentive to work, and they decided to give his to homeless people on welfare as well...because somehow their COVID expenses went up (?) so now there is a massive spike in overdoses in that community as they are spending that extra money on drugs.

      it’s a mess across the board.


      sigpic

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      • I work in the trade show industry and we have been hit extremely hard. Shows cancelled or postponed until 2021 have really taken its toll. I am in the camp that wishes there were some type of nationwide mandate. If for nothing else travel and sales could find some sort of regularity again. Las Vegas Nevada is one of the biggest hosts for trade shows and industry events and they have shut down almost entirely.
        I understand some spots are being hit harder than others, but it seems illogical that I can take "safety measures" in one state but cross the border and the same safety measures are no longer acceptable.

        We need either a national mandate or we need to open up again with safety measures in place. I have done several shows where masks and sanitizer are required and they have gone just fine.

        Some shows have had to really change up. The National Finals Rodeo "Cowboy Christmas" is an event I do every year. This year they had to move from Las Vegas to Texas and could only allow 25% of it's regular participants. My brand can't survive with state closures and 25% capacity.

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        • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
          I work in the trade show industry and we have been hit extremely hard. Shows cancelled or postponed until 2021 have really taken its toll. I am in the camp that wishes there were some type of nationwide mandate. If for nothing else travel and sales could find some sort of regularity again. Las Vegas Nevada is one of the biggest hosts for trade shows and industry events and they have shut down almost entirely.
          I understand some spots are being hit harder than others, but it seems illogical that I can take "safety measures" in one state but cross the border and the same safety measures are no longer acceptable.

          We need either a national mandate or we need to open up again with safety measures in place. I have done several shows where masks and sanitizer are required and they have gone just fine.

          Some shows have had to really change up. The National Finals Rodeo "Cowboy Christmas" is an event I do every year. This year they had to move from Las Vegas to Texas and could only allow 25% of it's regular participants. My brand can't survive with state closures and 25% capacity.
          I feel for you folks. And I agree with your position, when populations overlap. And I most definitely agree with implementing safety measures at least.

          Hang in there, best you can. I try to be an optimist, but I really believe the worst of it will be over in 3-6 months. I know, first the Phizers and Modernas have to go through all the check points. And even so, not everyone believes in vaccines. I certainly do. So yeah, there's a pretty big light around the corner, in my books, and with the support of every citizen (using proper judgement), and some good fortune with vaccine and hopefully treatments in the not too distant future, I feel quite good that 2020 will be the exception year.

          Having said that, in the interim, you folks still have Thanksgiving, and we all have Christmas coming, so I do fear a rise in cases/hospitalizations/deaths could be felt well into the new year if we let our collective guards down.

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          • Another day in COVID land, another dollar.

            Wear your masks!

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            • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
              Another day in COVID land, another dollar.

              Wear your masks!
              Brent, hope you are doing ok, workwise and of course, with your dear Dad.

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              • Had a somber thought. In spite of the hopes of an effective vaccine coming relatively soon, based on what I observe currently, knowing that indoor activity will rise with colder weather, and Christmas is on the way...and in The US, Thanksgiving as well, I predict mid to late January will be by far the worst pandemic situation we've experienced as of yet....UNLESS, preventative measures are seriously employed.

                And I do understand that many folks do not subscribe to vaccines, therefore the benefits will be less effective overall.

                And, as long as the situation is a bit out of control, I don't realistically see how some businesses will survive.

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                • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                  Had a somber thought. In spite of the hopes of an effective vaccine coming relatively soon, based on what I observe currently, knowing that indoor activity will rise with colder weather, and Christmas is on the way...and in The US, Thanksgiving as well, I predict mid to late January will be by far the worst pandemic situation we've experienced as of yet....UNLESS, preventative measures are seriously employed.

                  And I do understand that many folks do not subscribe to vaccines, therefore the benefits will be less effective overall.

                  And, as long as the situation is a bit out of control, I don't realistically see how some businesses will survive.
                  I've stayed away from this thread because I don't want to create enemies or start fights. I'm not here now to do so......

                  I have consistently referred to this virus as similar to the flu. For most if not all people who get the flu get similar like symptoms. Right now this coronavirus effects so many people in different ways. Most have ZERO effects or just mild fever and body aches, like getting a cold. Numbers of survival are still EXTREMEY high. The flu ( which magically has disappeared ) kills people too....yet we live with it. People take vaccines for it every year and every year it stills pops up and deaths happen, unfortunately.

                  We can live with this virus and still go about our daily lives. The vaccine will come and some will and won't take it and that's ok. I have never taken the flu vaccine. I've lived 40 years on this earth and have gotten by just fine. I'm not going to take the Corona vaccine and you know what...things will be ok.

                  Business can and should stay open. Shutting down business has such an emotional effect on people. Financially it is in so many cases impossible to come back from. Then leads to emotional circumstances that lead some to suicide.

                  I can live with a virus that I know I'll be ok after it comes and goes. Yes, I know I'll be ok and so will 95+ percent of all people. I can't live with people being forced to live with needles laws being placed on them. Being FORCED to shut doors and stay inside is a killer financially and emotionally and that's not ok with me.

                  ​​​​​​

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                  • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                    I've stayed away from this thread because I don't want to create enemies or start fights. I'm not here now to do so......

                    I have consistently referred to this virus as similar to the flu. For most if not all people who get the flu get similar like symptoms. Right now this coronavirus effects so many people in different ways. Most have ZERO effects or just mild fever and body aches, like getting a cold. Numbers of survival are still EXTREMEY high. The flu ( which magically has disappeared ) kills people too....yet we live with it. People take vaccines for it every year and every year it stills pops up and deaths happen, unfortunately.

                    We can live with this virus and still go about our daily lives. The vaccine will come and some will and won't take it and that's ok. I have never taken the flu vaccine. I've lived 40 years on this earth and have gotten by just fine. I'm not going to take the Corona vaccine and you know what...things will be ok.

                    Business can and should stay open. Shutting down business has such an emotional effect on people. Financially it is in so many cases impossible to come back from. Then leads to emotional circumstances that lead some to suicide.

                    I can live with a virus that I know I'll be ok after it comes and goes. Yes, I know I'll be ok and so will 95+ percent of all people. I can't live with people being forced to live with needles laws being placed on them. Being FORCED to shut doors and stay inside is a killer financially and emotionally and that's not ok with me.

                    ​​​​​​
                    You have every your right to your opinion. It is has been pretty much the opposite of mine, but that's why we discuss things. But I don't quite get your bolded statement....I don't think anyone can guarantee that, unless you are ok with "whatever happens". And what about the people around you?
                    Last edited by CanDB; 11-19-2020, 12:13 PM.

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                    • Outside of the fact that not many were endorsing masks early on, but came around soon after, the experts were very much bang on with their analysis of this pandemic, including recommended behaviour, 2nd/3rd waves, and so forth. It is not a perfect science, dealing with an unknown commodity, with health and lives literally on the line. But it's a good science. Our part was so much easier...listen and follow the guidance of the medical world. What's more shocking is how some look the other way, when they can be models of wise behaviour/example.

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                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                        FTR....I think when we talk at a more macro level, I for one consider economy to actually equate to peoples' jobs and lives. I certainly don't think only of it as X% growth, or whatever GDP. When the economy is weak, I think folks out of work and struggling. If the economy is good, I see more folks getting by, and more opportunity. There's a strong micro side to all of this, and for people like me, it's not just stats. It's the well being of those who are doing what they can. It is personal to me.

                        Anyway, to all, stay safe.
                        To me, the obvious is overwhelmingly obvious! First rule of Quality Control / Quality Assurance: When a serious problem occurs that effects processes and/or product ($$$), the first question asked is "WHAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE?" Something had to happen initially that severely disrupted normal established routines and behavior thus creating an overwhelming hardship effecting QUALITY at varying degrees. And what is the immediate risk that it could get worse.

                        America - Late 2019: Normal in spite of political nonsense. Economy.....very good to excellent. I believe life for most Americans had a fair amount of QUALITY.

                        America - December 2019 - January 2020: New unknown deadly virus arrives in the USA....say what?

                        America - February-March 2020: This virus is serious. Masks....really? Panic buying rapidly spreads. Older weak people are at higher risk including death.

                        America - Present: Economy...weak...could be a lot worse. Record daily virus infections and death. But wait! There's more! Thanksgiving in four days. Let's compare today's record numbers to the numbers in the second and third week in December. Time to start lining up the large freezer trailers that will be in high demand at many hospitals and morgues across America.

                        The economy must definitely be as strong as reasonably possible. Can we all agree the biggest and most important thing, ROOT CAUSE, effecting the economy is....drum roll.....THE PANDEMIC!

                        Manage or eliminate the ROOT CAUSE by DILIGENTLY using proven and effective safe guards....masks, gloves, soap, sanitizers, social distancing, etc.

                        Sacrifice and patience by EVERYONE must prevail in order for the ECONOMY to come back stronger than ever. Selfish and self centered attitudes cannot be tolerated and will only enhance the negativity effecting this nation that has ALWAYS ALWAYS BEEN GREAT.


                        Utah Bronco Freak

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                        • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                          I've stayed away from this thread because I don't want to create enemies or start fights. I'm not here now to do so......

                          I have consistently referred to this virus as similar to the flu. For most if not all people who get the flu get similar like symptoms. Right now this coronavirus effects so many people in different ways. Most have ZERO effects or just mild fever and body aches, like getting a cold. Numbers of survival are still EXTREMEY high. The flu ( which magically has disappeared ) kills people too....yet we live with it. People take vaccines for it every year and every year it stills pops up and deaths happen, unfortunately.

                          We can live with this virus and still go about our daily lives. The vaccine will come and some will and won't take it and that's ok. I have never taken the flu vaccine. I've lived 40 years on this earth and have gotten by just fine. I'm not going to take the Corona vaccine and you know what...things will be ok.

                          Business can and should stay open. Shutting down business has such an emotional effect on people. Financially it is in so many cases impossible to come back from. Then leads to emotional circumstances that lead some to suicide.

                          I can live with a virus that I know I'll be ok after it comes and goes. Yes, I know I'll be ok and so will 95+ percent of all people. I can't live with people being forced to live with needles laws being placed on them. Being FORCED to shut doors and stay inside is a killer financially and emotionally and that's not ok with me.


                          ​​​​​​
                          I agree.

                          This thing is not going away ever. Just like other forms of the Coronavirus have become common colds that we now have to deal with Covid 19 is going to become a perm things we all have to deal with.

                          There is really no good reason to force people into unemployment / no insurance, force people into making less money and soon to be forcing people into getting evicted. This is what happens when businesses are forced to close.

                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                            I agree.

                            This thing is not going away ever. Just like other forms of the Coronavirus have become common colds that we now have to deal with Covid 19 is going to become a perm things we all have to deal with.

                            There is really no good reason to force people into unemployment / no insurance, force people into making less money and soon to be forcing people into getting evicted. This is what happens when businesses are forced to close.
                            1) Are you folks watching the cases/hospitalizations/deaths of late?
                            2) Do you not think the situation is getting worse?
                            3) Do you think some folks are not helping?
                            4) I see the vaccine(s) as a major shift in this specific covid life, even if some smaller part of it stays around either because some do not want the vaccine or the virus changes or the vaccine is only temporary (which I doubt). I am talking significant shift in the right direction. It's possibly within just a few months. So in that regard, I suggest that folks honour their fellow man/woman/child, and make sure we minimize bad effects of what is going to likely happen for the next few months, with indoor activity/Thanksgiving/Christmas. Take care of yourself, and (I suggest) more responsibly, show respect for others.
                            Last edited by CanDB; 11-23-2020, 02:48 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Things are always "okay" for people until they are not. Then, when the music hits the fan, they'll need help and expect first class health care services.

                              Oh - you want to go to a crowded bar without a mask or spacing out, pay $7 for a Coors Lite, live and socialize to be...... happy?

                              Oh - you're now at home, with a 103 degree fever, with congestion and chest tightness... can't seem to be moving much air? Oh I guess you need help now...

                              Oh - you're in the ER, waiting for a bed upstairs for admission due to the maxed out units - while hooked up to a BiPap machine because your breathing is quite labored...

                              Oh - 8hrs later, you finally made it to the ICU. But unfortunately, you decompensated so bad while waiting for a bed upstairs - that we had to sedate/paralyze, and intubate.

                              Oh - there's me standing over you. Adjusting your vent settings. Increasing your paralytic because you keep biting down on your breathing tube. Flipping you prone, so the bottom of you lungs can deflate. Putting me, and everyone else at risk for your carelessness...


                              Yeah, people are always "fine" and "dandy", almost "invincible" until crap hits the fan...
                              Last edited by Peerless; 11-23-2020, 10:40 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
                                Things are always "okay" for people until they are not. Then, when the music hits the fan, they'll need help and expect first class health care services.

                                Oh - you want to go to a crowded bar without a mask or spacing out, pay $7 for a Coors Lite, live and socialize to be...... happy?

                                Oh - you're now at home, with a 103 degree fever, with congestion and chest tightness... can't seem to be moving much air? Oh I guess you need help now...

                                Oh - you're in the ER, waiting for a bed upstairs for admission due to the maxed out units - while hooked up to a BiPap machine because your breathing is quite labored...

                                Oh - 8hrs later, you finally made it to the ICU. But unfortunately, you decompensated so bad waiting for bed - that we had to sedate/paralyze, and intubate.

                                Oh - there's me standing over you. Adjusting your vent settings. Increasing your paralytic because you keep biting down on you're breathing tube. Flipping you prone, so the bottom of you lungs can deflate. Putting me, and everyone else at risk for your carelessness...


                                Yeah, people are always "fine" and "dandy", almost "invincible" until crap hits the fan...
                                Or as you well know pal, it's someone you spread the virus to, without their consent, who is now clinging to their life. And as if older/vulnerable folks are better at dying.

                                Selfish/misguided/irresponsible....and I am keeping to the code because I want to say something else.

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