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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

    What do you suppose the numbers would have been without the lockdowns in California? Why do you suppose Florida's numbers are rising again after spring break?
    Numbers most likely would have been closer to Florida’s numbers. Florida 157 out of every 100,000, California 151 out of every 100,000.

    the numbers in all states show the majority of deaths are elderly, they should be protected. Shutting down everyone doesn’t work. If states like California that had strict lockdowns resulted in much lower death rates I would support it. Being closed and open when you compare California to Florida is a 6 person difference. But that’s California and Florida.

    Why is nobody comparing New Jersey, New York or Massachusetts? Those states all locked down and had worse numbers than Texas, Georgia, and Florida that all remained open most of the Pandemic.

    Lockdowns don’t work. Protecting the most likely to be hospitalized and die is the best we can do. The vaccine for them is a good start.

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    • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
      Numbers most likely would have been closer to Florida’s numbers. Florida 157 out of every 100,000, California 151 out of every 100,000.

      the numbers in all states show the majority of deaths are elderly, they should be protected. Shutting down everyone doesn’t work. If states like California that had strict lockdowns resulted in much lower death rates I would support it. Being closed and open when you compare California to Florida is a 6 person difference. But that’s California and Florida.

      Why is nobody comparing New Jersey, New York or Massachusetts? Those states all locked down and had worse numbers than Texas, Georgia, and Florida that all remained open most of the Pandemic.

      Lockdowns don’t work. Protecting the most likely to be hospitalized and die is the best we can do. The vaccine for them is a good start.
      Lockdowns have worked in many parts of the world. Early and with some real kick to them. And clearly run by effective government. That's been proven.

      As a quick aside...I would be a little generous with cities such as New York, maybe LA, because they are gateways from places all around the globe. Especially in the earlier days of the pandemic.

      No offence to our neighbours to the south, like North Dakota for example, but that is not a hub city for world travel.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

        Lockdowns have worked in many parts of the world. Early and with some real kick to them. And clearly run by effective government. That's been proven.

        As a quick aside...I would be a little generous with cities such as New York, maybe LA, because they are gateways from places all around the globe. Especially in the earlier days of the pandemic.

        No offence to our neighbours to the south, like North Dakota for example, but that is not a hub city for world travel.
        I’m not slamming any cities or those in charge, I can’t say I would have done any better.

        I believe we are talking about the States in this country. And the highest death counts have come from states that have been locked down. Just like gun laws, states and cities with the strictest laws have some of the worst gun violence numbers. We all want Covid cases and deaths lower. The lockdowns done in the US have not proven to be much better the states that have reopened.
        So the issue is Covid, I believe the same as I have from the beginning “we need to learn how to live with it”! If you are scared then don’t go anywhere, stay home if you think that is wise, get vaccinated etc, don’t shut down people who choose to live with Covid. Why can’t all those that are worried lockdown and let those who believe in there immune systems and living healthy lives live! Example: people who are overweight continue to eat junk food and not exercise want me to wear a mask so I don’t effect them? Sorry that’s not a world I want to live in.

        millions died from the flu and we didn’t run and hide from it we learned to live with it. We need to do the same with Covid.
        Last edited by 58Miller; 04-07-2021, 09:59 AM.
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        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
          I’m not slamming any cities or those in charge, I can’t say I would have done any better.

          I believe we are talking about the States in this country. And the highest death counts have come from states that have been locked down. Just like gun laws, states and cities with the strictest laws have some of the worst gun violence numbers. We all want Covid cases and deaths lower. The lockdowns done in the US have not proven to be much better the states that have reopened.
          So the issue is Covid, I believe the same as I have from the beginning “we need to learn how to live with it”! If you are scared of fear it don’t go anywhere, stay home if you think that is wise, get vaccinated etc, don’t shut down people who choose to live with Covid”

          millions died from the flu and we didn’t run and hide from it we learned to live with it. We need to do the same with Covid.
          OK....I think we're done discussing, because the same points will likely be stated as we have in past conversations on this topic.

          I will conclude with this (though I am good to talk some more if you wish).....I trust the scientists and medical folks over everyone else. I believe this pandemic could have been handled much better. And part of that blame is on officials, and part of it is on the folks who seem to like taking risks, for themselves and others. In the end, as always, there are people I respect even more for their commitment to humanity, and those who I think are much more into taking care of #1, and show little compassion for others in need or the fact they could actually infect those innocent bystanders. And then there's the sometimes very disappointing "my rights" junk that wreaks of selfishness, over the rights of one's "neighbours"....which can eventually lead to spreading to those, many, many, many miles away.
          Last edited by CanDB; 04-07-2021, 09:59 AM.

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          • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

            OK....I think we're done discussing, because the same points will likely be stated as we have in past conversations on this topic.

            I will conclude with this (though I am good to talk some more if you wish).....I trust the scientists and medical folks over everyone else. I believe this pandemic could have been handled much better. And part of that blame is on officials, and part of it is on the folks who seem to like taking risks, for themselves and others. In the end, as always, there are people I respect even more for their commitment to humanity, and those who I think are much more into taking care of #1, and show little compassion for others in need or the fact they could actually infect those innocent bystanders. And then there's the sometimes very disappointing "my rights" junk that wreaks of selfishness, over the rights of one's "neighbours"....which can eventually lead to spreading to those, many, many, many miles away.
            I believe we all should love our neighbor ( fellow man). I’m not just saying this, I have lost a grandmother during this pandemic who I didn’t get to say good bye to because I followed the guidelines and stayed home. I haven’t been able to comfort friends who have lost love ones in person, missed weddings, graduations, and haven’t gotten to meet family and friends newborn children since the pandemic. My wife and kids have all shown signs of depression from being locked down from friends and family for the last year.
            All of this is worth it if it helped stop the spread and kept someone from getting ill. But their is a point where others need to play a part as well. You say you follow science, so how do we deal with the fact 50% of those hospitalized from Covid are obese?
            I don’t think the science would suggest 100% lockdown.
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            • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

              You keep saying this even though I have posted studies saying that is simply not the case. Where are you getting this info from? I'm genuinely interested.
              https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ccine/2478894/

              https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...e-what-to-know

              https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/co...id-19-vaccine/

              there's a few....

              Comment


              • Looking at the chart below, doesn’t look like Lockdowns work. People ages 50 and up make up 95% of the deaths in the US. Why again are we keeping children out of school and gyms closed?
                Total deaths from COVID-19 533,291
                0-17 years 246
                18-29 years 1,957
                30-39 years 5,683
                40-49 years 15,444
                50-64 years 80,361
                65-74 years 117,252
                75-84 years 148,166
                85 years and older 164,182
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                • I continue to hear about Science. Is their any data on the effects of locking people down?
                  Do people eat better or worse when they are confined to their homes?
                  if they eat worse wouldn’t that result in more people staying and or becoming obese?

                  what about gyms? Does preventing people from working out give someone a better chance against Covid or not?

                  50% Covid of hospitalizations are obese individuals. Does science support obese people stay home, out of the sun, order fast food and not work out?

                  not sure this is the best way to prevent hospitalizations and death. I would appreciate the science that backs keeping people home, on fast food diets, and out of the gym.
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                  • Instead of having lockdowns and yelling at everyone to wear a mask let’s try this, If your under 65 and obese, quarantine & lose weight. Obesity doesn’t just hurt you if you get COVID-19, many other health issues may hospitalize or take your life. If you are 50 and older Look into to vaccines if you want to be around others or lock yourself down because if you get Covid you have a much greater chance of death the older you are.

                    Caring for our neighbors goes both ways.


                    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...ut-age-matters




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                    • TEXAS AND MISSISSIPPI CASES DECREASE AFTER MASK MANDATES LIFTED
                      • Texas and Mississippi lifted their mask mandates at the beginning of March.
                      • In the nearly three weeks since the mask mandates were lifted, Texas and Mississippi's new case levels have decreased.
                      • In Texas from March 10, when Governor Abbott's order went into effect, to the present:
                        • New COVID cases dropped by more than 35%.
                        • The weekly mortality average dropped nearly 50%.









                      • In Mississippi from March 3rd to the present:
                        • New Covid cases dropped by more than 57%.
                        • The weekly mortality average dropped 65%.









                      • Compare this to New York and Michigan, states that still have mask mandates and saw increases in cases.
                        • In NY, new cases increased by 7% from March 3 to March 30.
                        • In Michigan, new cases increased by nearly 300% from March 3 to March 30.









                      • Florida never had a mask mandate.
                      • Since the start of the pandemic, March 2020, there have been 33,337 deaths and 2.05M cases out of a population of 21.5 million.


                      • By contrast, New York has had 49,790 deaths and 1.87M cases out of a population of 19.5 million.
                      • Florida also has more seniors, at 20.9% of the population.
                      • Compared to 16.9% of New York. SOURCES: Census, Census
                      • So New York has had a mask mandate, an aggressive lockdown, a smaller population, AND fewer vulnerable seniors than Florida, yet has more deaths.
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                      • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                        Hydroxychloroquine, although not natural, can help prevent severe reactions. Natural methods are just simply soaking in the sun or taking vitamin D supplements. All help in boosting your immune system.

                        After you get your vaccine and feel like you are saving humanity just remember that next year when you are stepping in line for your next shot. Getting the shots only helps yourself....not others

                        https://www.instagram.com/tv/CNKylWe...on_share_sheet

                        It helps you from getting majorly sick but it DOES NOT STOP YOU FROM SPREADING IT. So go ahead and get your shot, I'm not calling you selfish, please keep your attacks to yourself
                        Peanut the member:

                        No, it doesn't.

                        And, no, I am not going to post "proof" of my statement. Because someone else will come up with "proof" to counter it. Because you can find anything on the internet.

                        Most of us who are on hydroxychloroquine (Lupus, RA, etc) haven't gotten "severe reactions" because we have been self-isolating and doing everything to protect ourselves from other people.

                        Peanut the mod:

                        I only read this thread because I'm a mod. People have been talking in circles. Nothing has changed.
                        Administrator

                        Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage

                        Lupus Awareness

                        "a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life ; "

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                        • Originally posted by Peanut View Post

                          Peanut the member:

                          No, it doesn't.

                          And, no, I am not going to post "proof" of my statement. Because someone else will come up with "proof" to counter it. Because you can find anything on the internet.

                          Most of us who are on hydroxychloroquine (Lupus, RA, etc) haven't gotten "severe reactions" because we have been self-isolating and doing everything to protect ourselves from other people.

                          Peanut the mod:

                          I only read this thread because I'm a mod. People have been talking in circles. Nothing has changed.
                          In fairness, some of our posts reflect change. For me it's a lot to do with getting vaccinated, along with many friends/family members. My inner circle has talked a lot about their vaccinations, or those to come, and have commented on various aspects of the process of late. Most of us have been waiting to get vaccinated and thankfully we are now in that phase of solution.

                          Another thing that's changed is the increasing variant activity, and the fact that many regions are experiencing setbacks once again. And as we speak, further to my first comment, many regions are experiencing vaccine roll out issues, or success stories. For me, Covid is a fluid situation, and we will be presented new information on a regular basis, for a long time to come. Hopefully more of the "positive" nature.

                          So I don't think this thread has become old news. I think we are far from saying goodbye to Covid, its impacts, progress, how we live with it going forward....unless of course you mean that some discussion seems to go back to old debates about masks and so forth, even conflicting studies, to which I would agree with you.
                          Last edited by CanDB; 04-07-2021, 02:58 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                            In fairness, some of our posts reflect change. For me it's a lot to do with getting vaccinated, along with many friends/family members. My inner circle has talked a lot about their vaccinations, or those to come, and have commented on various aspects of the process of late. Most of us have been waiting to get vaccinated and thankfully we are now in that phase of solution.

                            Another thing that's changed is the increasing variant activity, and the fact that many regions are experiencing setbacks once again. And as we speak, further to my first comment, many regions are experiencing vaccine roll out issues, or success stories. For me, Covid is a fluid situation, and we will be presented new information on a regular basis, for a long time to come. Hopefully more of the "positive" nature.

                            So I don't think this thread has become old news. I think we are far from saying goodbye to Covid, its impacts, progress, how we live with it going forward....unless of course you mean that some discussion seems to go back to old debates about masks and so forth, even conflicting studies, to which I would agree with you.
                            That's what I was referring to. Views / opinions voiced in this thread.
                            Administrator

                            Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage

                            Lupus Awareness

                            "a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life ; "

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                            • What is bothersome to me is that Ontario, our most populated province, is undergoing yet another bad stage of Covid. I hear that British Columbia and Alberta are facing some real variant problems. I had predicted a few months back that, with the vaccine roll out, and special gatherings around The Christmas/New Year season no longer a big issue, the improvements would be incremental and pretty much positive. But here we are, with various places on the planet seemingly going into another period of high caution.

                              But as long as the variants do not mess with the vaccines, and with accelerated roll out activity, I still believe we will be looking much better by summer.

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                              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                                I’m not slamming any cities or those in charge, I can’t say I would have done any better.

                                I believe we are talking about the States in this country. And the highest death counts have come from states that have been locked down. Just like gun laws, states and cities with the strictest laws have some of the worst gun violence numbers. We all want Covid cases and deaths lower. The lockdowns done in the US have not proven to be much better the states that have reopened.
                                So the issue is Covid, I believe the same as I have from the beginning “we need to learn how to live with it”! If you are scared then don’t go anywhere, stay home if you think that is wise, get vaccinated etc, don’t shut down people who choose to live with Covid. Why can’t all those that are worried lockdown and let those who believe in there immune systems and living healthy lives live! Example: people who are overweight continue to eat junk food and not exercise want me to wear a mask so I don’t effect them? Sorry that’s not a world I want to live in.

                                millions died from the flu and we didn’t run and hide from it we learned to live with it. We need to do the same with Covid.
                                Learn to live with unnecessary death just because....REALLY?
                                Utah Bronco Freak

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