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  • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    I get what you are saying but your "solution" will never happen. Do you expect the millions of people in the USA and the world to suddenly get extremely healthy in one day? That's what would need to happen at this point in time to as you say "the only solution to fighting Covid". I think that's exactly the same as saying "if ALL people stopped speeding and using cell phones in their car and ALL criminal activity stopped and ALL aspects of pollution ended and ALL people helped poor people to end poverty".....then the world wouldn't have so many problems that ended in DEATH.

    There has never been a "perfect" world and there never will be. The 7.5 billion humans on this planet will never behave perfectly to create a perfect world. We are all dumb animals who will continue to fail for billions of reasons. Our successes will always be challenged and harder to achieve due to our inevitable stupid and ignorant behavior.

    Trial and error has been mankind's most effective way to learn yet we often refuse to learn from past mistakes due to selfishness, greed, ignorance, not engaging common sense, etc. and that is why we will continue to endure and struggle with this pandemic and all the numerous negative aspects that come with it. Very sad.
    Well said. IF ONLY does not work well with billions of people. Vaccines and proper social adherence including masks, is much faster and can be legislated. And in fairness, a lot of folks have extreme difficulty suddenly becoming healthier, in diet and exercise. Chastise them if you will, but as I understand human behaviour, many of us have our demons, or at very least, problems dealing with life whether it be mental, physical or deeper. So as you point out, to expect millions and millions to flick a health switch is unreasonable. They can try harder, but they will not be in much better shape within a month or two. Similarly, there are a lot people with issues related to mental health, which can also be a severe health factor, and can also be the reason folks are not eating properly and exercising they way they should. So it is nice to talk about a sudden shift to better health, and to point our fingers at those folks...but first I'd look in the mirror and make sure I am doing my part, and in this case, following the rules at play.

    If we think healthcare is easy for everyone, it is not. If we think that it will stop this pandemic as we know it, in its tracks, versus vaccines and social awareness, I believe we are expecting a miracle when in fact, a quicker, more reasonable solution is awaiting us now.

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    • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

      I get what you are saying but your "solution" will never happen. Do you expect the millions of people in the USA and the world to suddenly get extremely healthy in one day? That's what would need to happen at this point in time to as you say "the only solution to fighting Covid". I think that's exactly the same as saying "if ALL people stopped speeding and using cell phones in their car and ALL criminal activity stopped and ALL aspects of pollution ended and ALL people helped poor people to end poverty".....then the world wouldn't have so many problems that ended in DEATH.

      There has never been a "perfect" world and there never will be. The 7.5 billion humans on this planet will never behave perfectly to create a perfect world. We are all dumb animals who will continue to fail for billions of reasons. Our successes will always be challenged and harder to achieve due to our inevitable stupid and ignorant behavior.

      Trial and error has been mankind's most effective way to learn yet we often refuse to learn from past mistakes due to selfishness, greed, ignorance, not engaging common sense, etc. and that is why we will continue to endure and struggle with this pandemic and all the numerous negative aspects that come with it. Very sad.
      If you told me 2 years ago that their would be a virus that 90 percent of people who get it won’t even know they have it with out a test and a very small percent of the population the elderly, those with underlying conditions and the obese would be hospitalized and die and that we would shutdown the entire country, schools, businesses, and arrest people for going outside and Playing catch in an empty parking lot with their child or arrest a man in the Pacific Ocean on a stand up paddle board by himself. I would have said that will never happen. But it has and continues despite the statistics being very similar in states that shutdown and states that opened up after the initial surge.

      Truth is being healthy is up to all of us, the government can’t make us get in shape but they can provide resources and information to help people realize they are killing them selves. Seems like nobody cares unless you attach the word Covid.

      People don’t want to hear me say eat better, sleep better, and exercise too bad!!!! I don’t want to hear “wear your mask” ( when I have been wearing one since this began), social distance ( been doing it since day one!
      done everything that’s been asked, cases continue to rise and will for the foreseeable future. Peoples immune systems will fight it off in most cases and in some people who are not healthy will sadly be hospitalized and or die.

      Average age of death in America 78.7 years old.
      Average age of death from Covid, between 76-80 depending on the state.

      We all will die at some point, WE are responsible for ourselves.

      CDC data also show that Americans, regardless of age group, are far more likely to die of something other than COVID-19. Even among those in the most heavily impacted age group (85 and older), only 13.3percent of all deaths since February 2020 were due to COVID-19.

      Last edited by 58Miller; 04-15-2021, 09:30 AM.
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      • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

        If you told me 2 years ago that their would be a virus that 90 percent of people who get it won’t even know they have it with out a test and a very small percent of the population the elderly, those with underlying conditions and the obese would be hospitalized and die and that we would shutdown the entire country, schools, businesses, and arrest people for going outside and Playing catch in an empty parking lot with their child or arrest a man in the Pacific Ocean on a stand up paddle board by himself. I would have said that will never happen. But it has and continues despite the statistics being very similar in states that shutdown and states that opened up after the initial surge.

        Truth is being healthy is up to all of us, the government can’t make us get in shape but they can provide resources and information to help people realize they are killing them selves. Seems like nobody cares unless you attach the word Covid.

        People don’t want to hear me say eat better, sleep better, and exercise too bad!!!! I don’t want to hear “wear your mask” ( when I have been wearing one since this began), social distance ( been doing it since day one!
        done everything that’s been asked, cases continue to rise and will for the foreseeable future. Peoples immune systems will fight it off in most cases and in some people who are not healthy will sadly be hospitalized and or die.

        Average age of death in America 78.7 years old.
        Average age of death from Covid, between 76-80 depending on the state.

        We all will die at some point, WE are responsible for ourselves.

        CDC data also show that Americans, regardless of age group, are far more likely to die of something other than COVID-19. Even among those in the most heavily impacted age group (85 and older), only 13.3percent of all deaths since February 2020 were due to COVID-19.
        Based on my post #2610 that you responded to, going back in time to ask yourself if you thought we would be in this horrible virus problem today is worthless. What's your point other than we are what we eat so all human beings should eat only healthy food and life will be pretty much PERFECT in the future. There's a better chance that the sun won't rise tomorrow than 7+ billion humans immediately eating healthy food forever.

        Most people know that quality exercise and quality food creates good health and reduces the chance of unnecessary sickness and early death. Very common knowledge.

        So, all society has to do is eliminate 99.999% of horrible unhealthy food that is 360 degrees around us 24/7/365 and so many problems would vanish. Should we start with removing all unhealthy food from grocery stores, fast food chains, all convenience stores, food trucks, sports stadiums, state fairs, etc.? I'll wager heavily that you don't practice what you preach. Are brocoli, apples, oranges, spinach, brussel sprouts, tofu, carrots, tomatoes, bananas, green beans, wild rice and all the other numerous foods that provide good health are always well stocked in your house? How about junk foods, sugar filled items, greasy potato / corn chips in your house? Are you vegan or on a total plant based diet? If so, good for you but don't expect the 7+ billion people to adopt it. It will never happen as long as slaughterhouses, McDonald's and 7-11's exist. We are creatures of very bad habits and that will never change.

        You can list all the statistics regarding Covid 19 which have some true value, but never forget the words of Mark Twain that I truly believe:

        "There are lies, damn lies, and then there's STATISTICS".

        I interpret that to mean many times in life factual statistics don't always PROVE valid meaning and EXPECTED results, both positive and negative.
        Last edited by jazzbodog; 04-15-2021, 10:43 AM.
        Utah Bronco Freak

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        • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

          Based on my post #2610 that you responded to, going back in time to ask yourself if you thought we would be in this horrible virus problem today is worthless. What's your point other than we are what we eat so all human beings should eat only healthy food and life will be pretty much PERFECT in the future. There's a better chance that the sun won't rise tomorrow than 7+ billion humans immediately eating healthy food forever.

          Most people know that quality exercise and quality food creates good health and reduces the chance of unnecessary sickness and early death. Very common knowledge.

          So, all society has to do is eliminate 99.999% of horrible unhealthy food that is 360 degrees around us 24/7/365 and so many problems would vanish. Should we start with removing all unhealthy food from grocery stores, fast food chains, all convenience stores, food trucks, sports stadiums, state fairs, etc.? I'll wager heavily that you don't practice what you preach. Are brocoli, apples, oranges, spinach, brussel sprouts, tofu, carrots, tomatoes, bananas, green beans, wild rice and all the other numerous foods that provide good health are always well stocked in your house? How about junk foods, sugar filled items, greasy potato / corn chips in your house? Are you vegan or on a total plant based diet? If so, good for you but don't expect the 7+ billion people to adopt it. It will never happen as long as slaughterhouses, McDonald's and 7-11's exist. We are creatures of very bad habits and that will never change.

          You can list all the statistics regarding Covid 19 which have some true value, but never forget the words of Mark Twain that I truly believe:

          "There are lies, damn lies, and then there's STATISTICS".

          I interpret that to mean many times in life factual statistics don't always PROVE valid meaning and EXPECTED results, both positive and negative.
          Everyone is responsible for themselves. It’s not my place to tell people how to protect themselves. Eating better regardless of how you decide that, getting exercise, efficient sleep, and vitamin D is a much better plan than wearing a mask and socially distancing.

          The research, led by the Murdoch Children's Research Institute (MCRI) and The University of Queensland and published in Diabetes Care, found obese or overweight patients are at high risk for having worse COVID-19 outcomes. They are also more likely to require oxygen and invasive mechanical ventilation compared to those with a healthy weight.





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          • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
            Everyone is responsible for themselves. It’s not my place to tell people how to protect themselves. Eating better regardless of how you decide that, getting exercise, efficient sleep, and vitamin D is a much better plan than wearing a mask and socially distancing.

            The research, led by the Murdoch Children's Research Institute (MCRI) and The University of Queensland and published in Diabetes Care, found obese or overweight patients are at high risk for having worse COVID-19 outcomes. They are also more likely to require oxygen and invasive mechanical ventilation compared to those with a healthy weight.




            So 58, you are saying that "healthy" folks might as well be given the freedom to not social distance, or wear masks, or follow recommended pandemic related guidelines...because they have a better plan? I think that a smart, "healthy" person would be wise to take this thing very seriously, wear a mask when in public places, social distance, etc....because one mistake could be detrimental to all those years of smart living. Maybe they think they are "healthy' and then find out the hard way that they have a condition of some sort. or like folks who often get braver and braver in certain situations, maybe they start minimizing the steps they take to keep themselves safe. Or maybe in light of their "healthiness" they forget that they are too close to others who may be vulnerable, and spread the virus, thinking all is well in their world.

            Sorry buddy, but solving a pandemic does not come from overnight "healthy" measures. There is a better way, for quicker results. And vaccines are now likely the best solution, along with continued safe practices.

            No one is going to argue about being "healthy". But even at that, lets be cognizant of the fact that a relatively high % of folks try and try to be healthier, and sometimes have difficulties in achieving what some do. And you certainly can not expect folks in a pandemic, who have issues to deal with, possibly stress that they have trouble managing, to suddenly become nutrition/exercise experts.

            But if they get vaccinated, wear masks when required, keep their distance, wash up and be respectful of others....in my books they are doing pretty good.
            Last edited by CanDB; 04-15-2021, 12:00 PM.

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            • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

              So 58, you are saying that "healthy" folks might as well be given the freedom to not social distance, or wear masks, or follow recommended pandemic related guidelines...because they have a better plan? I think that a smart, "healthy" person would be wise to take this thing very seriously, wear a mask when in public places, social distance, etc....because one mistake could be detrimental to all those years of smart living. Maybe they think they are "healthy' and then find out the hard way that they have a condition of some sort. or like folks who often get braver and braver in certain situations, maybe they start minimizing the steps they take to keep themselves safe. Or maybe in light of their "healthiness" they forget that they are too close to others who may be vulnerable, and spread the virus, thinking all is well in their world.

              Sorry buddy, but solving a pandemic does not come from overnight "healthy" measures. There is a better way, for quicker results. And vaccines are now likely the best solution, along with continued safe practices.

              No one is going to argue about being "healthy". But even at that, lets be cognizant of the fact that a relatively high % of folks try and try to be healthier, and sometimes have difficulties in achieving what some do. And you certainly can not expect folks in a pandemic, who have issues to deal with, possibly stress that they have trouble managing, to suddenly become nutrition/exercise experts.

              But if they get vaccinated, wear masks when required, keep their distance, wash up and be respectful of others....in my books they are doing pretty good.
              If you could choose between being at a healthy weight or wearing a mask and social distancing. Which would you choose?

              I did not tell anyone to not wear a mask?

              From what I’m reading wearing a masks and telling people to wear masks is the best thing ever!!!!! Mentioning that 50% of the people hospitalized and dying from Covid are obese is just not possible and shouldn’t be
              mentioned!!!!! Either we care about saving lives or we don’t.

              Why are states that have lifted mask mandates numbers going down and states like Michigan being hit so hard with mask mandates still?
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              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                If you could choose between being at a healthy weight or wearing a mask and social distancing. Which would you choose?

                I did not tell anyone to not wear a mask?

                From what I’m reading wearing a masks and telling people to wear masks is the best thing ever!!!!! Mentioning that 50% of the people hospitalized and dying from Covid are obese is just not possible and shouldn’t be
                mentioned!!!!! Either we care about saving lives or we don’t.

                Why are states that have lifted mask mandates numbers going down and states like Michigan being hit so hard with mask mandates still?
                If I need to go out for any reason, "wear a mask and socially distancing". Oh by the way, in my condo it is mandatory I wear a mask outside our suite. So yah, I'm leaning that way in these specific times. Even if I do not agree with the mandate, I have to. If I tell them "but I'm very healthy", I might get kicked out, and my wife and dog would be very upset with me!!

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                • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                  If I need to go out for any reason, "wear a mask and socially distancing". Oh by the way, in my condo it is mandatory I wear a mask outside our suite. So yah, I'm leaning that way in these specific times. Even if I do not agree with the mandate, I have to. If I tell them "but I'm very healthy", I might get kicked out, and my wife and dog would be very upset with me!!
                  Good answer! Always go with the choice that keeps the wife and kids ( dogs included) happy!


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                  • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                    Everyone is responsible for themselves. It’s not my place to tell people how to protect themselves. Eating better regardless of how you decide that, getting exercise, efficient sleep, and vitamin D is a much better plan than wearing a mask and socially distancing.

                    The research, led by the Murdoch Children's Research Institute (MCRI) and The University of Queensland and published in Diabetes Care, found obese or overweight patients are at high risk for having worse COVID-19 outcomes. They are also more likely to require oxygen and invasive mechanical ventilation compared to those with a healthy weight.
                    You state: Eating better regardless of how you decide that, getting exercise, efficient sleep, and vitamin D is a much better plan than wearing a mask and socially distancing.

                    Good plan for the future, does not prevent sickness and death today. Until society, hundreds of millions of people, get very healthy, we all need to wear masks and socially distance.

                    You are basically saying "why close the barn door now after the majority of the animals have escaped". Extremely flawed thinking. Do the remaining animals in the barn have any value and worth keeping? Come on man, engage your common sense.

                    You're not informing anybody regarding who is at high risk for sickness and death. Everyone knows obesity is not healthy including the many other underlying health challenges humans face.
                    Many humans have challenging medical issues that started at birth or were developed sometime during their life that have nothing to do with poor diet, lack of exercise, etc.

                    So you're saying "too bad for them". They should have been born strong and healthy like me. Survival of the fittest right? Why help the weak, that's their problem. You state people with poor diets should immediately do whatever it takes to become healthy. People are products of their environment. If mommy and daddy have horrible diets how do you think their children will behave. Do you think their children will demand healthy food at a young age and proclaim they are sick and tired of Arby's, McDonalds and gallons of soda pop? That they will only accept lots of fresh vegetables and fruits and small portions of red meat or they will run away from home and live in a village of vegans because a terrible pandemic might show up in the future and they will require a strong immune system to not get sick and die.

                    Clueless thinking and totally unrealistic.
                    Last edited by jazzbodog; 04-15-2021, 05:07 PM.
                    Utah Bronco Freak

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                    • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                      You state: Eating better regardless of how you decide that, getting exercise, efficient sleep, and vitamin D is a much better plan than wearing a mask and socially distancing.

                      .
                      I wear a mask at work all day and when I am out in public. I will continue to do so until others feel safe enough for society to stop wearing mask.


                      Currently states that have
                      ifted mask mandates are not in worse condition than those that haven’t ( see: Michigan & Texas

                      The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers that didn’t exceed statistical margins of error.

                      The study found that between March and December 2020, face mask orders reduced infection rates by 1.5 percent over the rolling periods of two months each. The masks were 0.5 percent effective in the first 20 days of the mandates and less than 2 percent effective after 100 days.



                      I do believe people that are obese or overweight would increase their chances against Covid and have a better quality of life.

                      CDC agrees:

                      Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

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                      • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post


                        So you're saying "too bad for them". They should have been born strong and healthy like me. Survival of the fittest right? Why help the weak, that's their problem.

                        Clueless thinking and totally unrealistic.
                        No, I believe we should protect the weak, educate them on the effects of their lifestyles.

                        The policies in New York nursing homes had the “ too bad for them” policy not me.

                        The total number of nursing home patients who died from COVID-19 is 13,163 with nearly one-third dying in a hospital.
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                        • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                          You state people with poor diets should immediately do whatever it takes to become healthy. People are products of their environment. If mommy and daddy have horrible diets how do you think their children will behave. Do you think their children will demand healthy food at a young age and proclaim they are sick and tired of Arby's, McDonalds and gallons of soda pop? That they will only accept lots of fresh vegetables and fruits and small portions of red meat or they will run away from home and live in a village of vegans because a terrible pandemic might show up in the future and they will require a strong immune system to not get sick and die.

                          Clueless thinking and totally unrealistic.

                          The government has decided to tell people what they can and can’t do. They have told people who is essential and who is not. Millions have lost their jobs, businesses, and homes due to these decisions.

                          If the government wants to control us why not start with the unhealthy lifestyles they are raking tax dollars in from. They don’t allow kids to go to school cause it’s not safe but allow people to buy cigarettes?

                          I don’t believe it is an easy fix, but I don’t think masks, socially distancing is enough.
                          i also don’t believe shutting down gyms is helping.
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                          • 58....I do read and hear that obesity is a serious factor with regard to this virus. Never do I doubt the validity of your health related comments. My stance though, in an emergency (which this can be, especially if you are exposed to the virus, or expose others to it), is to do what you can as quickly as you can to manage the situation. Going forward, folks should all do their best in terms of nutrition and exercise. It will likely extend their quality and length of life, and protect them from possible future pandemics of this nature. But it's not easy for some, who deal with other issues, and as we have discussed, it is not an off/on switch that will quickly change a person's protection from covid-19.

                            So as long as you understand where some of us are coming from, I am quite sure we all understand your views about the value of good health. Eat well, exercise if you can, and catch some rays in wide open outdoor spaces.

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                            • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post


                              The government has decided to tell people what they can and can’t do. They have told people who is essential and who is not. Millions have lost their jobs, businesses, and homes due to these decisions.

                              If the government wants to control us why not start with the unhealthy lifestyles they are raking tax dollars in from. They don’t allow kids to go to school cause it’s not safe but allow people to buy cigarettes?

                              I don’t believe it is an easy fix, but I don’t think masks, socially distancing is enough.
                              i also don’t believe shutting down gyms is helping.
                              I saw on the national news today (not Fox fake news) that nearly half of the states in America are now experiencing strong increases with Covid infections and strangely for some unexplainable reasons it's not all "older fat people" that gorge on bacon cheese burgers, onion rings, milkshakes and cinna-buns every day and rarely go outside but are younger, sun loving, Vitamin D popping, healthy gym rats, party animals that are leading the way into hospitals.

                              What's up 58M?????
                              Last edited by jazzbodog; 04-17-2021, 07:02 PM.
                              Utah Bronco Freak

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                              • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                                I saw on the national news today (not Fox fake news) that nearly half of the states in America are now experiencing strong increases with Covid infections and strangely for some unexplainable reasons it's not all "older fat people" that gorge on bacon cheese burgers, onion rings, milkshakes and cinna-buns every day and rarely go outside but are younger, sun loving, Vitamin D popping, healthy gym rats, party animals that are leading the way into hospitals.

                                What's up 58M?????
                                can you share the article that says young healthy people are the ones filling hospitals not overweight and obese?
                                • About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday.
                                https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covi...-or-obese.html
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