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  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    My wife and I will have received our 2nd shots in a couple of weeks....but that will not stop me from wearing a mask in certain situations. It's a "several pronged approach". Masks, distancing, cleanliness, 2 shots of vaccine....and whatever else adds any value to the cause. That does include your take on health.

    I may be old school, but if the experts advise me to take this vaccine, I take it. Lets be clear, there are typically side effects and possible negative outcomes with many meds/injected things we live with. I don't like anesthetics, but I do not like surgery without it. I do not love needles in my mouth, but have you ever struck a raw nerve in your tooth? I don't like having too many x-rays, but if I have a broken bone, I think it should be checked out. If doctors ever tell me that I need certain meds to allow me to live a decent life, I will not have to think too long about it. And in this case, if the experts, and I repeat that a lot, advise me that this vaccine will do me and my community more good than harm, I make that a key part of my decision.
    Im on the same page with you, when it comes to risk/reward. As far as the vaccine goes my wife is but as long as mask are still be enforced everywhere I will continue to wear my mask and wait until the FDA fully approves the vaccines. I don’t enough about the vaccines to decide to take them, or encourage anyone to take them. I’m not anti or pro vaccines. I think more time is needed.
    I hope that the vaccines turn out to be safe, I am concerned with the bypassing of normal protocols for vaccines, and after seeing non stop death and case counts, very little reporting of side effects or deaths.


    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-30-2021, 11:06 AM.
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    • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
      Im on the same page with you, when it comes to risk/reward. As far as the vaccine goes my wife is but as long as mask are still be enforced everywhere I will continue to wear my mask and wait until the FDA fully approves the vaccines. I don’t enough about the vaccines to decide to take them, or encourage anyone to take them. I’m not anti or pro vaccines. I think more time is needed.
      I am not saying to rush this thing, but isn't the fact that the medical/scientific community put forth an amazing project to stem the tide of the pandemic thru introduction of safely developed and proven vaccines, so that we could prevent further sickness/death associated with covid-19?

      The goal was never to rush an unknown entity into arms of citizens round the globe. It took the length of time it did, because it is highly complicated stuff. Normally it would have taken longer, but the world pretty much agreed that more concerted effort was required to get us over the finish line sooner than later. I for one am extremely happy with the timeliness, the effort, the research, the testing and the ultimate approvals. I don't see the need to wait, when folks are dying and long term side effects may be dangerous.....and the community of legitimate experts signed on.

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      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

        I am not saying to rush this thing, but isn't the fact that the medical/scientific community put forth an amazing project to stem the tide of the pandemic thru introduction of safely developed and proven vaccines, so that we could prevent further sickness/death associated with covid-19?

        The goal was never to rush an unknown entity into arms of citizens round the globe. It took the length of time it did, because it is highly complicated stuff. Normally it would have taken longer, but the world pretty much agreed that more concerted effort was required to get us over the finish line sooner than later. I for one am extremely happy with the timeliness, the effort, the research, the testing and the ultimate approvals. I don't see the need to wait, when folks are dying and long term side effects may be dangerous.....and the community of legitimate experts signed on.
        Like I said I hope it works out for all. I have respect for the hard work of all in the medical & science industry who have the intent to help and save lives. Unfortunately their is also people in the industry making billions and that is their main goal. I believe a healthy lifestyle (eating clean Whole Foods, & regular exercise are the best way to build ones immune system and have a better quality of life).
        My personal experience with medications has resulted in side effects worse than the problem I was treating. Because of that and the fact Covid has an extremely high survival rate, I will wait until the FDA fully approve’s the vaccines.



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        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
          So people who don’t get vaccinated are the problem? Please explain how your vaccine doesn’t work if someone else isn’t vaccinated!

          And what happen to masks? I thought they were the way to fight the virus.
          What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

          It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

          But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

          You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

          Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

          Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

          And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?
          Utah Bronco Freak

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          • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

            What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

            It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

            But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

            You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

            Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

            Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

            And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?
            I will just touch on a few points...

            Wearing masks that are clean and safe (as opposed to the ones not recommended) have apparently kept flu and other illness down since the pandemic. So therefore airborne illness has been greatly reduced, whether it be covid, the flu, etc. etc.

            The fundamental issue I have with those who are not too fond of masks and vaccines, and proper distancing I am sure, is the collective weight it puts on those of us who are being wise, and even worse....the strain it has put on our innocent front line workers, especially hospital staff and the resources required to keep our medical process running as is expected. When this system breaks down, it has horrible overlapping downsides, including the delay of surgery, the need to send patients to other hospitals (perhaps far away), the hold on regular assessments that many folks need in order to detect issues that can escalate if not addressed on a timely basis, and anything that impacts the routines of running a normal medical process. I for one have had to wait for several medical related check ups/tests...and who knows if what seems like a smaller issue turns into something major in rapid order. Another bi product was the fear that folks had to visit hospitals and more seriously, Emergency, given the backlog and the worry that covid was rampant in those facilities.

            Sometimes doing the right thing is more about others than yourself. But failure to follow simple guidelines that were well explained almost everywhere in the world was a simple test that was failed, and in my opinion, due to selfishness, know it all'ism, and ignorance in many cases. And for some strange reason, many offenders could never link the collective bad behaviour with the end result of people dying or being very ill, and the impact it had on our medical systems and especially those who work every day to help others. And the short sightedness of thinking that, "if I'm ok", that's all that matters. That's why when they add up the losses, they better include people who got sick and those who died because their need for help was delayed. That smaller issue became late stage cancer. That fatigue became a heart attack. That surgery that had to wait, was too late for solving the initial problem. Yes, even the many smaller items, including that tiny toothache that ended up becoming a root canal and crown, or was extracted.
            Last edited by CanDB; 05-31-2021, 07:59 AM.

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            • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

              What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

              It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

              But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

              You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

              Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

              Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

              And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?
              If you're vaccinated why do you care if someone else is or isn't?? You're safe right?? You couldn't possibly contract or spread the virus so a non vaccinated person is the problem how???

              Take yourself off your high horse and have a little respect for personal choice. Not every person and situation is the same....

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              • Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

                What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

                It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

                But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

                You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

                Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

                Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

                And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?
                I was actually saying if masks work then why is it a must to get vaccinated if your not comfortable getting a vaccine that is still not fully approved by the FDA.

                Surgeons and nurses who perform clean surgery wear disposable protective masks. The purpose of the mask is not only to prevent germs from entering the patient's wound from the surgeon's nose and mouth, but also to protect the surgeon's face from spray and spatter.

                A surgeon performing surgery is a lot different than me walking my dog at the park or shopping at the grocery store.

                My stance is if you research the vaccines and feel comfortable taking them, then go for it, if not keep wearing your mask in public places. I don’t get why that’s a bad way to think, but “different strokes for different folks!”

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                • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

                  If you're vaccinated why do you care if someone else is or isn't?? You're safe right?? You couldn't possibly contract or spread the virus so a non vaccinated person is the problem how???

                  Take yourself off your high horse and have a little respect for personal choice. Not every person and situation is the same....
                  I don't know....your position on covid-19 has pretty much been about personal choice, as I recall....and see where that got us.

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                  • It's been a couple of hours since the last post. Good.

                    Thanks to everyone for taking a break.
                    Administrator

                    #Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage

                    #LupusAwareness

                    "a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life ; "

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                    • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                      I was actually saying if masks work then why is it a must to get vaccinated if your not comfortable getting a vaccine that is still not fully approved by the FDA.
                      Even though this isn't "FDA Approved" through the standard channels, both Moderna, Pfizer, and others have longstanding treatments using mRNA technology that have been in trial for several years. So, it's not like this technology is coming totally out of left field. Originally, mRNA was viewed as the potential "holy grail" of cancer treatments. Historically, many companies didn't lean heavily into vaccine research and creation because it wasn't lucrative prior to the (NCVIA) of 1986, which gave vaccine makers near immunity for vaccine-related injuries. Prior to that, many companies viewed vaccines as too risky and they were taking too many losses in legal battles. Think about it, a vaccine may work in 99.9% of people, but those handful that it injures were suing these companies into oblivion, which made creating an affordable vaccine practically impossible.

                      Masks only help mitigate the risk of an infected person spreading the virus. With an airborne virus, it reduces the amount of particulates in the air. For those trying to protect themselves, unless you're wearing N95 or equivalent, it's doing nothing for you other than providing the illusion of safety. In many Asian countries, people wear masks proactively if they aren't feeling 100% or have someone sick in the household as a courtesy to others. Hopefully that will start being the case here in NA.

                      For those interested, here is a REALLY cool write-up of the history of mRNA technology. It's definitely worth a read. The woman who doggedly pursued this technology for decades after losing her grants, being demoted, and told she was wasting her time. I mean, WOW! Talk about perseverance:

                      https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/...-vaccine-race/

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                      • Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post

                        Even though this isn't "FDA Approved" through the standard channels, both Moderna, Pfizer, and others have longstanding treatments using mRNA technology that have been in trial for several years. So, it's not like this technology is coming totally out of left field. Originally, mRNA was viewed as the potential "holy grail" of cancer treatments. Historically, many companies didn't lean heavily into vaccine research and creation because it wasn't lucrative prior to the (NCVIA) of 1986, which gave vaccine makers near immunity for vaccine-related injuries. Prior to that, many companies viewed vaccines as too risky and they were taking too many losses in legal battles. Think about it, a vaccine may work in 99.9% of people, but those handful that it injures were suing these companies into oblivion, which made creating an affordable vaccine practically impossible.

                        Masks only help mitigate the risk of an infected person spreading the virus. With an airborne virus, it reduces the amount of particulates in the air. For those trying to protect themselves, unless you're wearing N95 or equivalent, it's doing nothing for you other than providing the illusion of safety. In many Asian countries, people wear masks proactively if they aren't feeling 100% or have someone sick in the household as a courtesy to others. Hopefully that will start being the case here in NA.

                        For those interested, here is a REALLY cool write-up of the history of mRNA technology. It's definitely worth a read. The woman who doggedly pursued this technology for decades after losing her grants, being demoted, and told she was wasting her time. I mean, WOW! Talk about perseverance:

                        https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/...-vaccine-race/
                        Thx for this! I am a little bit tuned in to the story, and how she turned out to be a real winner in the end.

                        This is the stuff of why science is an incredible part of our world. The research, study, trials and errors, and in some cases, the amazing discoveries and yes, the incredible effort to problem solve to get the desired results.

                        Last edited by CanDB; 06-01-2021, 09:57 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post

                          Even though this isn't "FDA Approved" through the standard channels, both Moderna, Pfizer, and others have longstanding treatments using mRNA technology that have been in trial for several years. So, it's not like this technology is coming totally out of left field. Originally, mRNA was viewed as the potential "holy grail" of cancer treatments. Historically, many companies didn't lean heavily into vaccine research and creation because it wasn't lucrative prior to the (NCVIA) of 1986, which gave vaccine makers near immunity for vaccine-related injuries. Prior to that, many companies viewed vaccines as too risky and they were taking too many losses in legal battles. Think about it, a vaccine may work in 99.9% of people, but those handful that it injures were suing these companies into oblivion, which made creating an affordable vaccine practically impossible.

                          Masks only help mitigate the risk of an infected person spreading the virus. With an airborne virus, it reduces the amount of particulates in the air. For those trying to protect themselves, unless you're wearing N95 or equivalent, it's doing nothing for you other than providing the illusion of safety. In many Asian countries, people wear masks proactively if they aren't feeling 100% or have someone sick in the household as a courtesy to others. Hopefully that will start being the case here in NA.

                          For those interested, here is a REALLY cool write-up of the history of mRNA technology. It's definitely worth a read. The woman who doggedly pursued this technology for decades after losing her grants, being demoted, and told she was wasting her time. I mean, WOW! Talk about perseverance:

                          https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/...-vaccine-race/
                          Good post, I will read the story you shared, and when it comes to the N95 masks I’m not sure why that hasn’t been
                          made a bigger push.
                          But then again the same people originally said it wasn’t a concern for the US, couldn’t be transmitted person to person, not to wear mask, then wear masks, then wear two masks, six feet of distance, now 3 ft of distancing, kept wearing masks despite being vaccinated, now say don’t need to wear a mask if vaccinated. Many of the strictest enforcers were caught breaking their own rules.

                          Those people ( who have a very tough job), are now telling everyone to get vaccinated. That’s why I will take my time before getting vaccinated.
                          And speaking of high %, very high survival rate against Covid -19 depending on ones age and health. So I will go with my 99.99999 % chance of survival rate until the FDA does approve the vaccines.

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                          • Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post

                            Even though this isn't "FDA Approved" through the standard channels, both Moderna, Pfizer, and others have longstanding treatments using mRNA technology that have been in trial for several years. So, it's not like this technology is coming totally out of left field. Originally, mRNA was viewed as the potential "holy grail" of cancer treatments. Historically, many companies didn't lean heavily into vaccine research and creation because it wasn't lucrative prior to the (NCVIA) of 1986, which gave vaccine makers near immunity for vaccine-related injuries. Prior to that, many companies viewed vaccines as too risky and they were taking too many losses in legal battles. Think about it, a vaccine may work in 99.9% of people, but those handful that it injures were suing these companies into oblivion, which made creating an affordable vaccine practically impossible.

                            Masks only help mitigate the risk of an infected person spreading the virus. With an airborne virus, it reduces the amount of particulates in the air. For those trying to protect themselves, unless you're wearing N95 or equivalent, it's doing nothing for you other than providing the illusion of safety. In many Asian countries, people wear masks proactively if they aren't feeling 100% or have someone sick in the household as a courtesy to others. Hopefully that will start being the case here in NA.

                            For those interested, here is a REALLY cool write-up of the history of mRNA technology. It's definitely worth a read. The woman who doggedly pursued this technology for decades after losing her grants, being demoted, and told she was wasting her time. I mean, WOW! Talk about perseverance:

                            https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/...-vaccine-race/
                            I read this from the story you posted:
                            The concept: By making precise tweaks to synthetic mRNA and injecting people with it, any cell in the body could be transformed into an on-demand drug factory.

                            How is mRNA better than our own immune system which right now depending on your age is in the low to high 90 percent recovery from Covid.

                            The bigger question is what does this do to our immune system long term. We know steroids work great but the body stops creating Testosterone in some cases and research has found that antibiotics can sometimes inhibit the work that the immune systemperforms to attack infections.

                            What I want to know is if I get Covid and my immune system defeats it why would I need a vaccine?

                            What are the #’s on reinfected?

                            where are the studies or more importantly where is the science that shows a mRNA vaccine is better at fighting disease than our own immune systems.
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                            • Turns out Fauci is a fraud!!!!
                              His emails show
                              - how he was concerned about the gain of function research coming out that he had funded.

                              - how he covered up the lab theory

                              - how he really felt about masks ( did not support them)

                              - and he has over 20 emails with bill gates and emails with Zuckerberg

                              - is only interested in prevention and vaccines
                              No money in treatments would be my guess.

                              This guy is not a hero, he is a fraud and should be fired for lying to the American people.
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                              • We’ve never seen this level of side effects for any vaccine without the FDA taking action,” stated Dr. Angelina Farella, AFLDS Pediatric Medical Director. “The Rotavirus vaccine was pulled for 15 cases of non-lethal side effects and the Swine Flu vaccine was pulled for 25 deaths. But now, by the CDC’s own data, we are seeing a 12,000 percent increase in deaths with these vaccines and they’re still talking about giving this to our kids.”
                                • • Under the age of 20, the survivability rate for COVID-19 is 99.997 percent.
                                • • More than 4000 deaths that have been tied to the administering of COVID-19 vaccines in the last four months as opposed to 1500 total in the previous ten years for all vaccines.
                                • • Prior experimental vaccine rollout was stopped by the government when there were 25 unexplained deaths (deemed too high).
                                • • Researchers are concerned that spike proteins from the vaccines cause disease even without the virus, cross the blood-brain barrier, and could increase auto-immune disorders

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