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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    Almost everyone I talk to does not care about the economy. In fact most people I know care as much about the economy as they do about the graph of wealthy people feelings aka the stock market.

    People care about the lock downs and how they are affecting jobs. I work at a company where our branch of the corporation employed thousands of people in March 2020. We have let go over half of our employees. Each department is from 20% to 55% staffed compared to March 2020.

    People I talk to IRL care about jobs. Millions of people who have lost their jobs. Many people who have lost their small business they have worked for their entire life. Most small businesses can not afford to keep going with a 8 month lock down. They are not Target...they are not Home Depot so they are forced to close for over half a year. Probably longer as cases rise again.

    What does it mean in the USA when one does not have a job....one does not have health insurance. So millions of people who have lost their health insurance and jobs now face record surges of Covid19.

    Oh yea people without jobs have been not paying rent for months. Evictions were not allowed but those laws are expiring in a lot of places. Reports are that property management companies have already started the process of evicting people. The plan is the day the law expires to serve people eviction notices.

    This 8 month lock down is going to have the perfect storm of record infections...millions of people who lost their jobs and health insurance and now people are going to start getting evicted for not paying their rent. There are already lots of people living in vehicles in major cities. It was probably not so bad in the summer but now that fall it here...flu season is here...covid cases are spiking...

    Almost everyone I know is no longer 40 hours a week. At my work we are at 80% work schedule. That applies to all but a handful of my friends and family on some level. People are struggling to make rent and put food on the table.

    So yea....people I know are not concerned about the economy....they are concerned about lock downs and the millions of people losing their jobs. They are concerned about their own jobs and ability to pay rent and put food on the table.
    I feel for those out of work, or with reduced hours, or without insurance benefits, or stressed because of it all. I really do. My post was simply stating that as much as I care about the health of folks, I also think governments have to be wise in how they manage the economy, and in the case I offer, with careful analysis of what restrictions apply, and when. It's a tough balancing act.

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  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    For those of you who may think I, and others who think like me, are too concerned about health vs economy, I will provide an example of where I stand. Where I live, the pandemic is at record highs. Folks have been pushing for restrictions. Finally, effective yesterday, the province chose to close down many forms of indoor shopping (other than "essentials"), among other things. I was ticked. With Christmas shopping down to less than 6 weeks, and these new restrictions staying enforced for likely 4 weeks (or even longer), I thought it was poorly executed. I wrote my member of the legislature and said that they waited too long, given they knew how bad things were, a few weeks back, plus they know how critical Christmas shopping is for retailers. With all their issues this year, and with so many of them on the brink, I thought it was totally unfair to not calculate the timing of these new restrictions, in light of what would best serve our health and our economy.

    I mentioned how The Amazons of the world just keep on winning this year. Hey, most of us online shop, but give our brick and mortar folks a chance. In this case I was fairly tough on the government decision. In my opinion, they should have started sooner (based on the obvious deteriorating daily stats), monitored, and then hopefully re-opened, even if at 25% capacity, at least a month before Christmas. Of course that includes mandatory mask wearing and social distancing.

    And though it is not as likely, what if there was a major computer "virus" instead, and online companies took a kicking? It can go both ways. And I think we should care about both forms of retailing.

    Easy for me to make that assessment, but as much as I care for our health and well being, I also fear for businesses, who are on the brink. It's a 2 way process. But yes, I worry about our health first.
    Almost everyone I talk to does not care about the economy. In fact most people I know care as much about the economy as they do about the graph of wealthy people feelings aka the stock market.

    People care about the lock downs and how they are affecting jobs. I work at a company where our branch of the corporation employed thousands of people in March 2020. We have let go over half of our employees. Each department is from 20% to 55% staffed compared to March 2020.

    People I talk to IRL care about jobs. Millions of people who have lost their jobs. Many people who have lost their small business they have worked for their entire life. Most small businesses can not afford to keep going with a 8 month lock down. They are not Target...they are not Home Depot so they are forced to close for over half a year. Probably longer as cases rise again.

    What does it mean in the USA when one does not have a job....one does not have health insurance. So millions of people who have lost their health insurance and jobs now face record surges of Covid19.

    Oh yea people without jobs have been not paying rent for months. Evictions were not allowed but those laws are expiring in a lot of places. Reports are that property management companies have already started the process of evicting people. The plan is the day the law expires to serve people eviction notices.

    This 8 month lock down is going to have the perfect storm of record infections...millions of people who lost their jobs and health insurance and now people are going to start getting evicted for not paying their rent. There are already lots of people living in vehicles in major cities. It was probably not so bad in the summer but now that fall it here...flu season is here...covid cases are spiking...

    Almost everyone I know is no longer 40 hours a week. At my work we are at 80% work schedule. That applies to all but a handful of my friends and family on some level. People are struggling to make rent and put food on the table.

    So yea....people I know are not concerned about the economy....they are concerned about lock downs and the millions of people losing their jobs. They are concerned about their own jobs and ability to pay rent and put food on the table.
    Last edited by Hadez; 11-15-2020, 06:25 PM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    For those of you who may think I, and others who think like me, are too concerned about health vs economy, I will provide an example of where I stand. Where I live, the pandemic is at record highs. Folks have been pushing for restrictions. Finally, effective yesterday, the province chose to close down many forms of indoor shopping (other than "essentials"), among other things. I was ticked. With Christmas shopping down to less than 6 weeks, and these new restrictions staying enforced for likely 4 weeks (or even longer), I thought it was poorly executed. I wrote my member of the legislature and said that they waited too long, given they knew how bad things were, a few weeks back, plus they know how critical Christmas shopping is for retailers. With all their issues this year, and with so many of them on the brink, I thought it was totally unfair to not calculate the timing of these new restrictions, in light of what would best serve our health and our economy.

    I mentioned how The Amazons of the world just keep on winning this year. Hey, most of us online shop, but give our brick and mortar folks a chance. In this case I was fairly tough on the government decision. In my opinion, they should have started sooner (based on the obvious deteriorating daily stats), monitored, and then hopefully re-opened, even if at 25% capacity, at least a month before Christmas. Of course that includes mandatory mask wearing and social distancing.

    And though it is not as likely, what if there was a major computer "virus" instead, and online companies took a kicking? It can go both ways. And I think we should care about both forms of retailing.

    Easy for me to make that assessment, but as much as I care for our health and well being, I also fear for businesses, who are on the brink. It's a 2 way process. But yes, I worry about our health first.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-13-2020, 06:17 PM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    To the original point I quoted...we all believe a lot of things. It is also important we distinguish between belief and fact. Even if we see something that we consider fact because we saw that fact it is important to understand what is the scope of what we see. When talking about 10 million in the USA or 250k in Canada how many were infected because of disrespectful people? It is ok to assume or have a belief but when we start talking about decisions that have permanent implications on people lives...we may want to be more careful about how we form our opinions.

    I do not visit this forum often. Partly because of my time but also because I want to comment here when I can do so with critical thought and as little emotion as possible....and this is understandably a very emotional issue. If you are not ok with responses in potentially 2 weeks later as that is when I have the time and mental balance to post here than I will stop quoting you.

    As for the bolded driving part....I think you fail to remember the people walking on the street who are killed or maimed in vehicle accidents. I think you fail to remember the people who may be driving but are killed or maimed by another driver. What about the family of the father killed while crossing the street legally by a driver? Not only is the father dead but the family lost someone. Not everyone killed, permanently injured or suffering a loss by a car were driving the car that caused the accident.
    You can stop quoting me if you want, or continue to do so. This is not a good time to be getting too analytical about the surge of this pandemic. It's awful, and it is getting worse. And a reasonably significant amount of it has to do with disrespect and irresponsibility....and selfishness. Not all of course, but that is common sense given the extent and depth of this virus. Unfortunately bad luck and other well-intentioned activity is also part of it.

    You may disagree if you wish.

    As for belief and fact, when they align, it is fairly straightforward.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-13-2020, 11:49 AM.

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  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    Yes it would be.

    FTR, you are quoting me from a while back, which is ok. But if we are going to be current, there is no doubt that this pandemic is growing stronger than ever in many places, and I still believe it is because people lowered their guards, or did not respect the magnitude of the situation well enough, to protect the well being of so many others. I still firmly disagree with your logic about taking risks. You use driving as an example....but you failed to mention that many of those who are sick/dying as a result of the pandemic are not the "drivers" but innocent bystanders. Being an innocent bystander should not be a high risk situation. Plus I did discuss how driving and other causes of death have taken decades to come to the rules/laws we now employ, whereas the covid situation is still relatively new, and it is changing. Like one of the medical experts I heard today compared their medical approach to the covid as follows.... when this began (not that long ago) they were driving as they were paving the road, in terms of knowledge/expertise of how to deal with patients. But driving, or smoking, or drinking rules/laws/norms, as some examples, took decades and endless public opinion to come to where we are today. The death rates associated with each are not good, but have become normal, only because of all the research/debate, over a long period of time.

    Regardless, we can discuss this further, but this is a bad time with regard to the pandemic. We are entering a very serious stage. I know how bad it is here, and I know what I see going on in the US and other countries. The US, as you know, is at new levels of cases, and hospitalizations. This is not good.

    So yeah, I'll continue with my logic...lets be wise, and lets be respectful of others. And if the vaccine is only 3-6 months away, why take extra gambles with our lives, and worse, the lives of others.
    To the original point I quoted...we all believe a lot of things. It is also important we distinguish between belief and fact. Even if we see something that we consider fact because we saw that fact it is important to understand what is the scope of what we see. When talking about 10 million in the USA or 250k in Canada how many were infected because of disrespectful people? It is ok to assume or have a belief but when we start talking about decisions that have permanent implications on people lives...we may want to be more careful about how we form our opinions.

    I do not visit this forum often. Partly because of my time but also because I want to comment here when I can do so with critical thought and as little emotion as possible....and this is understandably a very emotional issue. If you are not ok with responses in potentially 2 weeks later as that is when I have the time and mental balance to post here than I will stop quoting you.

    As for the bolded driving part....I think you fail to remember the people walking on the street who are killed or maimed in vehicle accidents. I think you fail to remember the people who may be driving but are killed or maimed by another driver. What about the family of the father killed while crossing the street legally by a driver? Not only is the father dead but the family lost someone. Not everyone killed, permanently injured or suffering a loss by a car were driving the car that caused the accident.

    Leave a comment:

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