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  • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

    Hey remember when I asked you to re-read a post recently found here on two studies on meta-anayslsis that I posted? And you realized that your "human nature" took over and you were wrong or something like that?

    I think you're missing the point... on the question you asked me on 'spike proteins'

    Again, for your reference: I have it saved and will share again: https://forums.denverbroncos.com/for...03#post8363503

    And you want me to produce data that shows COVID19 vaccines are safe after two years. Why don't you show me data on COVID 19 vaccines being unsafe after two years? Oh.... "Well how irrational of a question is that Peerless..."
    So we are talking spike proteins....covid19 vaccine safe data...and you want me to open a link from DOI.org about ivermectin effectiveness?

    I must admit having a hard time following the path of logic.
    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

      So we are talking spike proteins....covid19 vaccine safe data...and you want me to open a link from DOI.org about ivermectin effectiveness?

      I must admit having a hard time following the path of logic.
      Oops wrong link, I'll post the one that gets you back to the spike proteins convo that I have saved: https://forums.denverbroncos.com/for...13#post8363313

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

        I do not think those judgmental against the vaccine hesitant care how many side effects or how many deaths were caused by the vaccines. Nor do they care no one knows if there will be any medium or long term negative side effects.

        They just seem to want to say someone takes the vaccine or they are a bad person who follows disinformation and fake news.

        The "news" they watch talks about how this is a pandemic of the non-vaccinated and never has a single report about the people suffering from vaccine side effects.

        Do they even acknowledge there are side effects?

        It does not feel like it on this thread.
        Many people have been hospitalized and died from covod

        Between 6 and 12 thousand have died from vaccine complications and many more have been hospitalized due to them also.

        Some fully vaccinated have also been hospitalized and died:
        • 4,115 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid-19 despite being fully vaccinated.
        • The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750.
        If their is a chance of being hospitalized or dying from Covid, getting vaccinated and a chance you could be hospitalized and die from the virus even after being vaccinated. Then people should be able to choose which one they are comfortable taking a chance on.



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        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
          Many people have been hospitalized and died from covod

          Between 6 and 12 thousand have died from vaccine complications and many more have been hospitalized due to them also.

          Some fully vaccinated have also been hospitalized and died:
          • 4,115 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid-19 despite being fully vaccinated.
          • The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750.
          If their is a chance of being hospitalized or dying from Covid, getting vaccinated and a chance you could be hospitalized and die from the virus even after being vaccinated. Then people should be able to choose which one they are comfortable taking a chance on.


          Can you share your source or a link to those numbers of deaths from vaccine complications?


          Edit:

          You must have gotten SOME of your numbers from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covi...ccination.html

          This headline sucks. And so does how this story was written. If you read the actual article, this is not true:

          4100 people didn't die or were hospitalized.

          The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750. And of those, 142 of those fatalities were asymptomatic or unrelated to Covid-19. So basically, 608 died after contracting COVID-19 despite being vaccinated.

          And 3,907 have been hospitalized with breakthrough Covid infections, despite being fully vaccinated. But more than 1,000 of those patients were asymptomatic or their hospitalizations weren’t related to Covid-19, the CDC said.


          So the headline should read:

          A little over 3,000 people have been hospitalized and a little over 600 have died from COVID-19 even after being vaccinated.

          Let's stoke the fire a little more so conspiracy theorists around here will read this and say, see, 4,000 people have died from being vaccinated.

          I mean if you want to use that 4115 number, there have been 163,312,474 fully vaccinated people in the US as of right now. 4115 deaths, out of
          163,312,474 fully vaccinated people.

          If that doesn't convince you that the vaccines are out to steal your rights, take your property, implant a chip in your body, and turn you into a glowing pile of radioactive goo five years from now...nothing will!
          Last edited by Peerless; 07-27-2021, 09:28 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

            Can you share your source or a link to those numbers of deaths from vaccine complications?
            • Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
            https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

            *Note:
            On Wednesday, the CDC updated its website to indicate that "in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, ...VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."

            On July 19, Monday, however, the very same website, showed that "VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." This is a staggering 6,000 post-vaccination deaths. This update can be seen at the Internet Archive.

            Because of this I will leave it at 6 to 12K have died from vaccine related deaths.

            I think the vaccine deaths should be counted the same way the virus deaths have been counted. RELATED deaths.




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            • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

              Oops wrong link, I'll post the one that gets you back to the spike proteins convo that I have saved: https://forums.denverbroncos.com/for...13#post8363313
              I do not want to go back and count but I have said either 2 or 3 times I could have worded that comment better. Actually I just reposted the same apology so I am not sure the forum "rules" on how many times that was.



              How do you feel about this. Why are hospital workers who have direct contact with patients not getting vaccinated?

              https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...spital-workers

              Refusing Vaccinations


              In fact, nationwide, 1 in 4 hospital workers who have direct contact with patients had not received a single dose of a COVID-19 vaccine by the end of May, according to a WebMD and Medscape Medical News analysis of data collected by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) from 2,500 hospitals across the U.S.
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                • Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
                https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

                *Note:
                On Wednesday, the CDC updated its website to indicate that "in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, ...VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."

                On July 19, Monday, however, the very same website, showed that "VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." This is a staggering 6,000 post-vaccination deaths. This update can be seen at the Internet Archive.

                Because of this I will leave it at 6 to 12K have died from vaccine related deaths.

                I think the vaccine deaths should be counted the same way the virus deaths have been counted. RELATED deaths.



                Your numbers that you posted.... . couldn't have given more proof and evidence of how safe the COVID vaccine has been thus far.

                Let's post the FULL detailed section:

                • Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths
                Seriously.... That is your profound evidence of why you think the COVID vaccine is risky or deadly? 0.0036% is your answer? Wow.... Now I am going to bed.
                Last edited by Peerless; 07-27-2021, 09:37 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

                  You're numbers that you posted.... . couldn't have given more proof and evidence of how safe the COVID vaccine has been thus far.

                  Let's post the FULL detailed section:


                  Seriously.... That is your profound evidence of why you think the COVID vaccine is risky or deadly? 0.0036% is your answer? Wow.... Now I am going to bed.
                  You can’t find me saying that anywhere.
                  I simply stated that thousands have been hospitalized and died after taking the vaccine. Just like those who didn’t vaccinate and got hospitalized do you think them and their families regret their decision?

                  I know a family who’s grandmother died from Covid and their moved the grandfather in with them. To keep the grandfather safe they son and his wife (42) got vaccinated. He was fine but she died due to complications.
                  He lost his mother from Covid and his wife from the vaccine. Now he is taking care of his father and his two children.
                  Both are tragic losses, and why I am so supportive of people researching and making their own decision on how to fight Covid.
                  Last edited by 58Miller; 07-27-2021, 09:49 PM.
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                  • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

                    You can’t find me saying that anywhere.
                    I simply stated that thousands have been hospitalized and died after taking the vaccine. Just like those who didn’t vaccinate and got hospitalized do you think them and their families regret their decision?

                    I know a family who’s grandmother died from Covid and their moved the grandfather in with them. To keep the grandfather safe they son and his wife (42) got vaccinated. He was fine but she died due to complications.
                    He lost his mother from Covid and his wife from the vaccine. Now he is taking care of his father and his two children.
                    Both are tragic losses, and why I am so supportive of people researching and making their own decision on how to fight Covid.
                    Okay, I re-track my official quote.

                    But I do know - from reading your posts that you are probably one who doesn't want to get the vaccine because it's your choice. That, has been quite clear - as you've written before any who choose not to take them do it at there own risk.

                    To run with the narrative that people die from the vaccine, as to support your probable reason for not taking the vaccine is also kind of shallow. Hey let me tell you what - NOTHING is certain in life. There have been people who have died from crazy and little minuscule reasons that you would never expect. NOTHING is ever 100%.

                    I'm sorry to hear about the wife of the family you know; but as you know nothing is ever guaranteed. Given her death from complications from the vaccine - it would be nice to know about other factors that could have contributed to her death. Did she have an underlying health issue? Was she sick in the first place? Is she naturally a healthy lady? Was she immunocompromised? Was she on other medications? Did she have heart disease, diabetes? Was she obese? The problem with "pre-existing" conditions - if she had them - is that tons of people actually do have them but are just not aware of them. Of course - I don't really want to know the overall story because it's a private and sad event - but it is a bit unfair to the reader to get a fraction of the story (the ending), verses the meat and potato part that could help connect the dots which lead to the ending.

                    And finally - to provide a vaccine death % of 0.0036% to this argument is laughable, as if that should scare people to maybe reconsider taking the vaccine, or forgoing it. Thousands have been hospitalized after taking the vaccine is what you wrote as well.... Have you seen the numbers of the hospitalized (and deaths) BEFORE vaccines were even officially announced?

                    People in this thread have been asking questions, I've tried to provide answers with concrete research and evidence. No Hadez or 58Miller,I don't have answers or numbers on if the vaccine is going to be safe in two years, five years, or ten years after administration. But - you also cannot provide me evidence on if the vaccine is unsafe in two, five, or ten years.

                    But looking at the numbers as of today, they appear quite safe:

                    There have been more than 339 MILLION COVID19 vaccines given from Dec 2020 to this July 2021- and out of all of those vaccines given to people - 0.0036% have died after getting the vaccine. And don't forget to re-read this part: the FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.
                    Last edited by Peerless; 07-28-2021, 05:07 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

                      Okay, I re-track my official quote.

                      But I do know - from reading your posts that you are probably one who doesn't want to get the vaccine because it's your choice. That, has been quite clear - as you've written before any who choose not to take them do it at there own risk.



                      And finally - to provide a vaccine death % of 0.0036% to this argument is laughable, as if that should scare people to maybe reconsider taking the vaccine, or forgoing it. Thousands have been hospitalized after taking the vaccine is what you wrote as well.... Have you seen the numbers of the hospitalized (and deaths) BEFORE vaccines were even officially announced?

                      People in this thread have been asking questions, I've tried to provide answers with concrete research and evidence. No Hadez or 58Miller,I don't have answers or numbers on if the vaccine is going to be safe in two years, five years, or ten years after administration. But - you also cannot provide me evidence on if the vaccine is unsafe in two, five, or ten years.


                      There have been more than 339 MILLION COVID19 vaccines given from Dec 2020 to this July 2021- and out of all of those vaccines given to people - 0.0036% have died after getting the vaccine. And don't forget to re-read this part: the FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.
                      I’ve been fully vaccinated for a few months now. So obviously I am not anti vaccine. I still don’t think people should be forced to take it if they don’t want to.

                      The numbers I brought up on Vaccine hospitalizations and deaths and those vaccinated who have been hospitalized and died simply shows it’s not 100’% safe for all and it’s not 100% effective.

                      Bassd on a persons age and health condition dying and being hospitalized from Covid is also extremely rare. Others in advance age and with underlying conditions are those who have the toughest decision, they are most likely to be hospitalized and die from Covid. They also are most likely to be the very small % who still are hospitalized or in rare cases die despite being vaccinated or the even more rare death rom vaccine complications.

                      If the possibility of hospitalization or even death is involved each person should make that decision and not be coerced or pressured.

                      I chose to be vaccinated because I believed the benefits outweighed the risks. I have talk to friends and family that are terrified of the thought of getting a vaccine that still hasn’t been approved by the FDA and worry about the long term effects. That’s not my choice to make for them.

                      Funny thing is the sickest I’ve been during Covid was after I got the vaccine. In bed for two days. I still don’t regret getting the vaccine, but now that I’m seeing masks are coming back to indoors for fully vaccinated people I get why many who hesitant are not going to get it.

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                      • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        I’ve been fully vaccinated for a few months now. So obviously I am not anti vaccine. I still don’t think people should be forced to take it if they don’t want to.

                        The numbers I brought up on Vaccine hospitalizations and deaths and those vaccinated who have been hospitalized and died simply shows it’s not 100’% safe for all and it’s not 100% effective.
                        Nothing - no vaccine in the history of the world has been 100% effective or 100% safe. Everybody knows that. But the studies have shown that the Covid19 vaccine is 94-95% effective, which is quite impressive and hopefully re-assuring.

                        The 0.0036% death % is again - not even a drop in bucket, but should also be re-assuring to those on the fence on getting the vaccine.


                        Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        Funny thing is the sickest I’ve been during Covid was after I got the vaccine. In bed for two days. I still don’t regret getting the vaccine, but now that I’m seeing masks are coming back to indoors for fully vaccinated people I get why many who hesitant are not going to get it.
                        As with anything, people are individualized and side effects can, do, and will happen differently for everyone.

                        I had zero issues after my first shot. But my second? I got a bad wave of nausea with a nice hot flash.

                        Comment


                        • Based on everything we know to this day.....


                          get vaccinated!

                          To those who want to debate, there is barely enough data to support the other decision. Until there is a cumulative report that hospitals are dealing with a much lower % of unvaccinated patients, the debate is almost futile. There will always be exceptions, and there will always be some unknowns, but current data overwhelmingly verifies that getting vaccinated is the right call. It is why places like where I live have amazing decreases in covid cases (even as a variant is loose and extremely active), and less restrictions, which will soon lessen again shortly based on the trends.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

                            Can you share your source or a link to those numbers of deaths from vaccine complications?


                            Edit:

                            You must have gotten SOME of your numbers from: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covi...ccination.html

                            This headline sucks. And so does how this story was written. If you read the actual article, this is not true:

                            4100 people didn't die or were hospitalized.

                            The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750. And of those, 142 of those fatalities were asymptomatic or unrelated to Covid-19. So basically, 608 died after contracting COVID-19 despite being vaccinated.

                            And 3,907 have been hospitalized with breakthrough Covid infections, despite being fully vaccinated. But more than 1,000 of those patients were asymptomatic or their hospitalizations weren’t related to Covid-19, the CDC said.


                            So the headline should read:

                            A little over 3,000 people have been hospitalized and a little over 600 have died from COVID-19 even after being vaccinated.

                            Let's stoke the fire a little more so conspiracy theorists around here will read this and say, see, 4,000 people have died from being vaccinated.

                            I mean if you want to use that 4115 number, there have been 163,312,474 fully vaccinated people in the US as of right now. 4115 deaths, out of
                            163,312,474 fully vaccinated people.

                            If that doesn't convince you that the vaccines are out to steal your rights, take your property, implant a chip in your body, and turn you into a glowing pile of radioactive goo five years from now...nothing will!
                            When it came to deaths they counted them as covid19 deaths regardless of what else was going on. See Cuomo saying the CDC overreported deaths in New York by 25%.

                            When they went into the hospital and we talking vaccinated getting hospitalized now all the sudden the CDC wants to start separating these?

                            It seems we are leaning the numbers one way to increase death tolls and then leaning the numbers the other way to make the vaccine appears more safe.

                            This is why people do not trust the Establishment Health System.
                            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                              It seems we are leaning the numbers one way to increase death tolls and then leaning the numbers the other way to make the vaccine appears more safe.
                              The vaccine is safe. A 0.0036% death rate from the vaccination is SAFE.

                              How could you or anyone possibly refute a number like that??

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Peerless View Post

                                The vaccine is safe. A 0.0036% death rate from the vaccination is SAFE.

                                How could you or anyone possibly refute a number like that??
                                Why is it still under emergency authorization if it is safe?

                                Why has the federal government given protection to the vaccine companies if something goes wrong?
                                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                                Comment

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