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  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    So what are your sources regarding teamwork?
    who are you referring too?

    Andrew Cuomo sending 10k elderly to their deaths in old people homes?

    People being arrested for playing catch with their daughter in an empty parking lot (Colorado) stand up paddling in the ocean alone ( California)working out in a gym they moved outdoors while wearing a mask ( New Jersey).
    While ado allowing thousands in the streets together to protest many without masks?


    Like my previous post said, I am rooting for everyone including those getting vaccinated. I no longer have patience for virtue signaling​​​​​.
    The states that have had the most controlling governors New Jersey, New York, and Michigan are at the top of the worse in numbers of cases and deaths.
    Sorry 58. All of these key items you list here were likely only reported by "non-credible" media sources.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    Biden said on Wednesday,: "The science was done under Democratic and Republican administrations. Matter of fact, the first vaccines were authorized under a Republican president and widely developed by a Democratic president."
    source CNN

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    So what are your sources regarding teamwork?
    who are you referring too?

    Andrew Cuomo sending 10k elderly to their deaths in old people homes?

    People being arrested for playing catch with their daughter in an empty parking lot (Colorado) stand up paddling in the ocean alone ( California)working out in a gym they moved outdoors while wearing a mask ( New Jersey).
    While allowing thousands in the streets together to protest, many without masks?

    Like my previous post said, I am rooting for everyone including those getting vaccinated. I no longer have patience for virtue signaling​​​​​.
    The states that have had the most controlling governors New Jersey, New York, and Michigan are at the top of the worse in numbers of cases and deaths.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 06-06-2021, 09:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Like Drew Lock I’m am rooting for the vaccines to get us back to normal.
    Also like Lock I’m not sure right now, because last year numbers were very low during June 2020.

    As far as States go I like Florida’s approach ( protect the elderly and those with underlying conditions), support the science and get kids back to school, allow people to decide what’s best for them and not over reach.

    I am not a fan of California or Michigan where people were arrested for the same rule breaking both Governor’s were caught breaking. The good for thee not for me is horrible leadership.

    Overall doesn’t seem like a big difference between strict lockdown vs wide open. People gonna do what they gonna do.

    So let’s hope the vaccines, plus the millions who have Covid-19 anti bodies, plus good treatments and a better understanding how to beat Covid on the frontline means we will have victory over Covid-19.
    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-06-2021, 08:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    So gang....back to the topic - Covid-19. As for the truth, The USA is doing quite well now, in large thanks to the vaccines. No vaccines - poor results. Vaccines - good results. This is about as simple as it gets for me. I would add the distancing/masks/cleanliness elements, but they are more about protection, whereas vaccines appear to be the most fundamental problem resolution.

    As for political influence. Saw a telling map. Where vaccinations are up or down very much matches a map of the 2020 election. Coincidence?

    Like Drew Lock I’m am rooting for the vaccines to get us back to normal.
    Also like Lock I’m not sure right now, because last year numbers were very low during June 2020.

    As far as States go I like Florida’s approach ( protect the elderly and those with underlying conditions), support the science and get kids back to school, allow people to decide what’s best for them and not over reach.

    I am not a fan of California or Michigan where people were arrested for the same rule breaking both Governor’s were caught breaking. The good for thee not for me is horrible leadership.

    Overall doesn’t seem like a big difference between strict lockdown vs wide open. People gonna do what they gonna do.

    So let’s hope the vaccines, plus the millions who have Covid-19 anti bodies, plus good treatments and a better understanding how to beat Covid on the frontline means we will have victory over Covid-19.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 06-06-2021, 05:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

    That's very true, and has sadly skewered information as it pertains to COVID-19 (as you can clearly see). Politically influenced social media companies were censoring any discussion of the virus having possibly escaped a Wuhan virology lab up until late May. They have since done a complete embarrassing reversal of this policy, as more evidence supporting this theory rendered ongoing censorship of it untenable.

    So nice that we're allowed to discuss such things, as ordained by Big Tech. Political propaganda and science do not marry well.
    I hope anyone who bought into the idea that discussing the lab leak theory was a bad idea now can look back and realize how misguided that concept was.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    So gang....back to the topic - Covid-19. As for the truth, The USA is doing quite well now, in large thanks to the vaccines. No vaccines - poor results. Vaccines - good results. This is about as simple as it gets for me. I would add the distancing/masks/cleanliness elements, but they are more about protection, whereas vaccines appear to be the most fundamental problem resolution.

    As for political influence. Saw a telling map. Where vaccinations are up or down very much matches a map of the 2020 election. Coincidence?

    What I find interesting is states with no mask mandate for months now (Florida and Texas) have about the same numbers as the state I live in with a harsh mask mandate (California).

    The numbers seem to indicate the regular cloth mask has no significant impact on Covid-19.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    While it may seem censorship works in the short term in the long term is it actually counter productive to the goal of why it was censored imo. That is more true now in the free world more than ever.

    Understanding the reasons of why various sources have "decided what we are allowed to think" helps me in understanding the quality of various sources. It is usually tied to the incentive structure in how that business is trying to earn revenue. Do not forget that any information that is easy to get is easy for a reason...it is in someone's human interest to make it easy. The problem some people have is in assuming that the human interest from the easy information is similar to their own human interest.

    I do not mind google tracking my data. What annoys me is how I sometimes have to work harder to get past how they have ordered their search results. Sometimes it is interesting to search the same thing on various search tools just to see how they are ordered differently.
    That's very true, and has sadly skewered information as it pertains to COVID-19 (as you can clearly see). Politically influenced social media companies were censoring any discussion of the virus having possibly escaped a Wuhan virology lab up until late May. They have since done a complete embarrassing reversal of this policy, as more evidence supporting this theory rendered ongoing censorship of it untenable.

    So nice that we're allowed to discuss such things, as ordained by Big Tech. Political propaganda and science do not marry well.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    So gang....back to the topic - Covid-19. As for the truth, The USA is doing quite well now, in large thanks to the vaccines. No vaccines - poor results. Vaccines - good results. This is about as simple as it gets for me. I would add the distancing/masks/cleanliness elements, but they are more about protection, whereas vaccines appear to be the most fundamental problem resolution.

    As for political influence. Saw a telling map. Where vaccinations are up or down very much matches a map of the 2020 election. Coincidence?

    Last edited by CanDB; 06-06-2021, 02:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    That’s a good way going about it. The more things are censored the deeper we have to dig.
    I use DuckDuckGo and it tends to go the subject I look up and not what google wants me to think.

    It’s incredible how Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter have all decided what we are allowed to think.
    While it may seem censorship works in the short term in the long term is it actually counter productive to the goal of why it was censored imo. That is more true now in the free world more than ever.

    Understanding the reasons of why various sources have "decided what we are allowed to think" helps me in understanding the quality of various sources. It is usually tied to the incentive structure in how that business is trying to earn revenue. Do not forget that any information that is easy to get is easy for a reason...it is in someone's human interest to make it easy. The problem some people have is in assuming that the human interest from the easy information is similar to their own human interest.

    I do not mind google tracking my data. What annoys me is how I sometimes have to work harder to get past how they have ordered their search results. Sometimes it is interesting to search the same thing on various search tools just to see how they are ordered differently.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    It is difficult. It is even possible to find a good source that maybe is not a good source for a particular subject. It is one reason when I view anything I make sure and tell myself what I am seeing is coming from humans and subject to various human factors.

    Finding the TRUTH is not easy. It is a process. It is a process I do not have the energy to do for everything. Some things...like the things this thread is about....I spend hundreds of hours researching various topics listening/reading all kinds of people/sources. It has taken me over a year to form the opinions I have on the topics in this thread. I am still adding new information.

    Other things...I pick a source I am good with for that particular subject and go with it but I make sure and write my opinion in pencil....willing to change if new material comes to light.
    That’s a good way going about it. The more things are censored the deeper we have to dig.
    I use DuckDuckGo and it tends to go the subject I look up and not what google wants me to think.

    It’s incredible how Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter have all decided what we are allowed to think.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

    I agree with this but reliable sources after are still very hard to find.

    Think about our team. Sources came out saying Arod heading here a month ago and that was a 100% lie and it has been the #1 headline since.
    If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.






    Malcolm X
    It is difficult. It is even possible to find a good source that maybe is not a good source for a particular subject. It is one reason when I view anything I make sure and tell myself what I am seeing is coming from humans and subject to various human factors.

    Finding the TRUTH is not easy. It is a process. It is a process I do not have the energy to do for everything. Some things...like the things this thread is about....I spend hundreds of hours researching various topics listening/reading all kinds of people/sources. It has taken me over a year to form the opinions I have on the topics in this thread. I am still adding new information.

    Other things...I pick a source I am good with for that particular subject and go with it but I make sure and write my opinion in pencil....willing to change if new material comes to light.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-04-2021, 03:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    When I graduated HS 3 decades ago all we had were a few news sources. If I wanted I could go to the library and read news papers from many places. These news papers were 1 day to 2 weeks old depending on where they came from.

    That is not the case today. There are more sources of information out there than can be possibly counted.

    If someone stops at CNN, FOX and/or MSNBC they do not want the TRUTH...they want what is EASY
    I agree with this but reliable sources after are still very hard to find.

    Think about our team. Sources came out saying Arod heading here a month ago and that was a 100% lie and it has been the #1 headline since.
    If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.

    Malcolm X

    Last edited by 58Miller; 06-04-2021, 02:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    If that’s true then where is the truth?
    it’s not on cnn, fox, or msnbc! Which you well know the majority think they can trust, the government & big pharma are in bed.


    example: Ivermectin has had amazing success in Peru, Mexico, and parts of India. Completely unknown by the rest of the world. If

    The reason? Money!!!!! If Ivermectin was approved in the US they would lose their emergency clearance for the vaccines that have already killed 4K plus and we have know idea what the long term effects will be.
    When I graduated HS 3 decades ago all we had were a few news sources. If I wanted I could go to the library and read news papers from many places. These news papers were 1 day to 2 weeks old depending on where they came from.

    That is not the case today. There are more sources of information out there than can be possibly counted.

    If someone stops at CNN, FOX and/or MSNBC they do not want the TRUTH...they want what is EASY

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    That is not true. The truth is out there more now than it ever has been. People need to evolve. People need to put effort into getting the whole story. It is easier to get the whole story now more than it has ever been.

    Information easy to get is easy for a reason...it is in someone's interest to make that particular information easy to get access to. If someone wants to know the whole story they are going to have to put time and effort into finding the whole story.

    There has always been a system going on where human interests have been trying to get certain information to the public for all kinds of different human interest reasons. It is on each of us to decide if we want to accept the easy information or put time and effort into getting more information.
    If that’s true then where is the truth?
    it’s not on cnn, fox, or msnbc! Which you well know the majority think they can trust, the government & big pharma are in bed.


    example: Ivermectin has had amazing success in Peru, Mexico, and parts of India. Completely unknown by the rest of the world. If

    The reason? Money!!!!! If Ivermectin was approved in the US they would lose their emergency clearance for the vaccines that have already killed 4K plus and we have know idea what the long term effects will be.

    Leave a comment:

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