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  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Joshua2585 View Post

    He's right about the Cuomo nursing home scandal. It was leaked by someone internal in his office. You can find plenty of stories about it now. Media tried not to cover it originally, but the story had too much momentum. The number is now up to 15k potentially infected sent back to nursing homes, the deaths that stemmed from the infected being introduced back into nursing homes is no doubt uncountable. It is a big reason NY was one of the hardest hit elderly populations in the country. I've been pretty surprised that he wasn't thrown to the wolves by the Dems... not to mention the recent revelations of his sexual misconduct/scandals. He is a posterboy for what is wrong with American politics, yet he's still being protected. It's unfortunate.

    I don't know about the other stuff he mentioned.
    Oh no doubt...I'm fully aware of his massive dereliction of duty, and how disreputable media (including his own brother) did all that they could to shield him (of course, I don't blame his brother for helping him...he's family for crying out loud...just don't call yourself a journalist). Until, as you stated, it was far too big of a story for them to sanitize and continue to downplay.

    Just one of many tragic stories within the greater Covid story, where awareness is evenly split down ideological lines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    The difficult thing I think a lot of people are struggling with is how to discuss issues without including ideologically motivated comments. More often than not the ideas were brought to one's attention with ideologically motivated comments so naturally it is not easy to separate the issue from the ideology.

    I think people are getting better with time. Some patience and understanding while we all struggle with the best way forward with what we know now is all I can do.
    And that's the supremely difficult thing to grapple with on a topic such as this, on a football message board where politics are expressly prohibited (and for very good reason). Separating the ideology from the story at hand is essentially impossible to any fair minded person. All you can do is look at all available information and try to objectively decide (decode) for yourself where the truth lies, and not let your own biases cloud the discussion.

    Political activist "journalists" spoon feed your thought medicine, and tell you how you are supposed to think. It's sad...quite pathetic really, but apparently, that's a more profitable way to package news.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    Further to.....thx 58 for our other little discussion. You're cool!!



    Thank you! I always appreciate your posts. I’m really hoping this time next year we have a decisive victory over Covid. Not just in the states but all countries dealing with the Pandemic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joshua2585
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

    Sorry 58. All of these key items you list here were likely only reported by "non-credible" media sources.
    He's right about the Cuomo nursing home scandal. It was leaked by someone internal in his office. You can find plenty of stories about it now. Media tried not to cover it originally, but the story had too much momentum. The number is now up to 15k potentially infected sent back to nursing homes, the deaths that stemmed from the infected being introduced back into nursing homes is no doubt uncountable. It is a big reason NY was one of the hardest hit elderly populations in the country. I've been pretty surprised that he wasn't thrown to the wolves by the Dems... not to mention the recent revelations of his sexual misconduct/scandals. He is a posterboy for what is wrong with American politics, yet he's still being protected. It's unfortunate.

    I don't know about the other stuff he mentioned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    BTW, do you seriously think that the former leader would acknowledge The Democrats? Your President has class. The vaccines were a matter of time, and were based on the effort of science/medical people all over the world. They came up with the answers, not politicians. Yes, the urgency demanded intervention perhaps, but solutions come from expertise in terms of practical, safe solutions that required due diligence and scrutiny, and of course, scientific proof. Failure at that level would be catastrophic.

    President Biden took what was working, the collaborated doings of experts in their field, and rolled out a vaccine plan that has been admirable. My country will catch up, as will others, when we have the supply we need, which is happening more quickly now. In that case, Biden is looking to help those who need vaccines in other countries.

    Interesting that you mention Democrat states only......interesting how some folks never mention "unmasked" political rallies. No offence, but though my take is clearly linked with one side vs the other, methinks yours might be as well. That's ok.

    That's why some of the discussion in this thread has been difficult to expand on....because there was typically an underlying theme that was hinted at, at very least, but not open for real discussion. And I think we have to avoid the protest activity, because that's a whole topic to itself, and not one for open debate. My view is that everyone should be concerned about covid, should respect others' property, and should behave within the confines of the law. But, protests often translate to a real need to be heard. But that's a whole other topic, and not to be discussed in BCMB.
    The difficult thing I think a lot of people are struggling with is how to discuss issues without including ideologically motivated comments. More often than not the ideas were brought to one's attention with ideologically motivated comments so naturally it is not easy to separate the issue from the ideology.

    I think people are getting better with time. Some patience and understanding while we all struggle with the best way forward with what we know now is all I can do.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Further to.....thx 58 for our other little discussion. You're cool!!



    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

    Biden said on Wednesday,: "The science was done under Democratic and Republican administrations. Matter of fact, the first vaccines were authorized under a Republican president and widely developed by a Democratic president."
    source CNN
    BTW, do you seriously think that the former leader would acknowledge The Democrats? Your President has class. The vaccines were a matter of time, and were based on the effort of science/medical people all over the world. They came up with the answers, not politicians. Yes, the urgency demanded intervention perhaps, but solutions come from expertise in terms of practical, safe solutions that required due diligence and scrutiny, and of course, scientific proof. Failure at that level would be catastrophic.

    President Biden took what was working, the collaborated doings of experts in their field, and rolled out a vaccine plan that has been admirable. My country will catch up, as will others, when we have the supply we need, which is happening more quickly now. In that case, Biden is looking to help those who need vaccines in other countries.

    Interesting that you mention Democrat states only......interesting how some folks never mention "unmasked" political rallies. No offence, but though my take is clearly linked with one side vs the other, methinks yours might be as well. That's ok.

    That's why some of the discussion in this thread has been difficult to expand on....because there was typically an underlying theme that was hinted at, at very least, but not open for real discussion. And I think we have to avoid the protest activity, because that's a whole topic to itself, and not one for open debate. My view is that everyone should be concerned about covid, should respect others' property, and should behave within the confines of the law. But, protests often translate to a real need to be heard. But that's a whole other topic, and not to be discussed in BCMB.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    So what are your sources regarding teamwork?
    who are you referring too?

    Andrew Cuomo sending 10k elderly to their deaths in old people homes?

    People being arrested for playing catch with their daughter in an empty parking lot (Colorado) stand up paddling in the ocean alone ( California)working out in a gym they moved outdoors while wearing a mask ( New Jersey).
    While ado allowing thousands in the streets together to protest many without masks?


    Like my previous post said, I am rooting for everyone including those getting vaccinated. I no longer have patience for virtue signaling​​​​​.
    The states that have had the most controlling governors New Jersey, New York, and Michigan are at the top of the worse in numbers of cases and deaths.
    Sorry 58. All of these key items you list here were likely only reported by "non-credible" media sources.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    Biden said on Wednesday,: "The science was done under Democratic and Republican administrations. Matter of fact, the first vaccines were authorized under a Republican president and widely developed by a Democratic president."
    source CNN

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    So what are your sources regarding teamwork?
    who are you referring too?

    Andrew Cuomo sending 10k elderly to their deaths in old people homes?

    People being arrested for playing catch with their daughter in an empty parking lot (Colorado) stand up paddling in the ocean alone ( California)working out in a gym they moved outdoors while wearing a mask ( New Jersey).
    While allowing thousands in the streets together to protest, many without masks?

    Like my previous post said, I am rooting for everyone including those getting vaccinated. I no longer have patience for virtue signaling​​​​​.
    The states that have had the most controlling governors New Jersey, New York, and Michigan are at the top of the worse in numbers of cases and deaths.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 06-06-2021, 10:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Like Drew Lock I’m am rooting for the vaccines to get us back to normal.
    Also like Lock I’m not sure right now, because last year numbers were very low during June 2020.

    As far as States go I like Florida’s approach ( protect the elderly and those with underlying conditions), support the science and get kids back to school, allow people to decide what’s best for them and not over reach.

    I am not a fan of California or Michigan where people were arrested for the same rule breaking both Governor’s were caught breaking. The good for thee not for me is horrible leadership.

    Overall doesn’t seem like a big difference between strict lockdown vs wide open. People gonna do what they gonna do.

    So let’s hope the vaccines, plus the millions who have Covid-19 anti bodies, plus good treatments and a better understanding how to beat Covid on the frontline means we will have victory over Covid-19.
    I prefer the "respect others" approach.

    You may not care for this comparison, but when a group goes to war, they do what's best for the unit, not themselves.

    And I really wonder where the compass is these days when it comes to teamwork. You can be intellectual and still work together in tough times. In fact, give up most of your individual "rights" for the better cause. Sounds a bit dreamy to some, but I believe this stuff. I have a really fond respect for the generations before me, who unselfishly worked together in tough times. I see a lot of that missing, these days. Even though some of these folks were the ones who caused sickness perhaps death to others, though their actions.

    So this is where we fundamentally disagree....I like New Zealand, Australia and several others who won this battle early, and prevented so much loss in life, and so much potential long term damage. We are distant in that regard. We have been as far back as we go on this topic.

    FTR, I like what Biden and team did to turn around the situation. It has been logical, objective and with a plan. Most folks I know saw that turnaround coming, once his team took over.
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-06-2021, 09:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    So gang....back to the topic - Covid-19. As for the truth, The USA is doing quite well now, in large thanks to the vaccines. No vaccines - poor results. Vaccines - good results. This is about as simple as it gets for me. I would add the distancing/masks/cleanliness elements, but they are more about protection, whereas vaccines appear to be the most fundamental problem resolution.

    As for political influence. Saw a telling map. Where vaccinations are up or down very much matches a map of the 2020 election. Coincidence?

    Like Drew Lock I’m am rooting for the vaccines to get us back to normal.
    Also like Lock I’m not sure right now, because last year numbers were very low during June 2020.

    As far as States go I like Florida’s approach ( protect the elderly and those with underlying conditions), support the science and get kids back to school, allow people to decide what’s best for them and not over reach.

    I am not a fan of California or Michigan where people were arrested for the same rule breaking both Governor’s were caught breaking. The good for thee not for me is horrible leadership.

    Overall doesn’t seem like a big difference between strict lockdown vs wide open. People gonna do what they gonna do.

    So let’s hope the vaccines, plus the millions who have Covid-19 anti bodies, plus good treatments and a better understanding how to beat Covid on the frontline means we will have victory over Covid-19.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 06-06-2021, 06:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

    That's very true, and has sadly skewered information as it pertains to COVID-19 (as you can clearly see). Politically influenced social media companies were censoring any discussion of the virus having possibly escaped a Wuhan virology lab up until late May. They have since done a complete embarrassing reversal of this policy, as more evidence supporting this theory rendered ongoing censorship of it untenable.

    So nice that we're allowed to discuss such things, as ordained by Big Tech. Political propaganda and science do not marry well.
    I hope anyone who bought into the idea that discussing the lab leak theory was a bad idea now can look back and realize how misguided that concept was.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    So gang....back to the topic - Covid-19. As for the truth, The USA is doing quite well now, in large thanks to the vaccines. No vaccines - poor results. Vaccines - good results. This is about as simple as it gets for me. I would add the distancing/masks/cleanliness elements, but they are more about protection, whereas vaccines appear to be the most fundamental problem resolution.

    As for political influence. Saw a telling map. Where vaccinations are up or down very much matches a map of the 2020 election. Coincidence?

    What I find interesting is states with no mask mandate for months now (Florida and Texas) have about the same numbers as the state I live in with a harsh mask mandate (California).

    The numbers seem to indicate the regular cloth mask has no significant impact on Covid-19.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    While it may seem censorship works in the short term in the long term is it actually counter productive to the goal of why it was censored imo. That is more true now in the free world more than ever.

    Understanding the reasons of why various sources have "decided what we are allowed to think" helps me in understanding the quality of various sources. It is usually tied to the incentive structure in how that business is trying to earn revenue. Do not forget that any information that is easy to get is easy for a reason...it is in someone's human interest to make it easy. The problem some people have is in assuming that the human interest from the easy information is similar to their own human interest.

    I do not mind google tracking my data. What annoys me is how I sometimes have to work harder to get past how they have ordered their search results. Sometimes it is interesting to search the same thing on various search tools just to see how they are ordered differently.
    That's very true, and has sadly skewered information as it pertains to COVID-19 (as you can clearly see). Politically influenced social media companies were censoring any discussion of the virus having possibly escaped a Wuhan virology lab up until late May. They have since done a complete embarrassing reversal of this policy, as more evidence supporting this theory rendered ongoing censorship of it untenable.

    So nice that we're allowed to discuss such things, as ordained by Big Tech. Political propaganda and science do not marry well.

    Leave a comment:

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