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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

    It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

    But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

    You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

    Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

    Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

    And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?
    I will just touch on a few points...

    Wearing masks that are clean and safe (as opposed to the ones not recommended) have apparently kept flu and other illness down since the pandemic. So therefore airborne illness has been greatly reduced, whether it be covid, the flu, etc. etc.

    The fundamental issue I have with those who are not too fond of masks and vaccines, and proper distancing I am sure, is the collective weight it puts on those of us who are being wise, and even worse....the strain it has put on our innocent front line workers, especially hospital staff and the resources required to keep our medical process running as is expected. When this system breaks down, it has horrible overlapping downsides, including the delay of surgery, the need to send patients to other hospitals (perhaps far away), the hold on regular assessments that many folks need in order to detect issues that can escalate if not addressed on a timely basis, and anything that impacts the routines of running a normal medical process. I for one have had to wait for several medical related check ups/tests...and who knows if what seems like a smaller issue turns into something major in rapid order. Another bi product was the fear that folks had to visit hospitals and more seriously, Emergency, given the backlog and the worry that covid was rampant in those facilities.

    Sometimes doing the right thing is more about others than yourself. But failure to follow simple guidelines that were well explained almost everywhere in the world was a simple test that was failed, and in my opinion, due to selfishness, know it all'ism, and ignorance in many cases. And for some strange reason, many offenders could never link the collective bad behaviour with the end result of people dying or being very ill, and the impact it had on our medical systems and especially those who work every day to help others. And the short sightedness of thinking that, "if I'm ok", that's all that matters. That's why when they add up the losses, they better include people who got sick and those who died because their need for help was delayed. That smaller issue became late stage cancer. That fatigue became a heart attack. That surgery that had to wait, was too late for solving the initial problem. Yes, even the many smaller items, including that tiny toothache that ended up becoming a root canal and crown, or was extracted.
    Last edited by CanDB; 05-31-2021, 07:59 AM.

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  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    So people who don’t get vaccinated are the problem? Please explain how your vaccine doesn’t work if someone else isn’t vaccinated!

    And what happen to masks? I thought they were the way to fight the virus.
    What planet have you been living on for the the last 17 months. First, I stated: Non-vaccinated people are PART of the problem.

    It's been proven that vaccinated people can still get the virus although an extremely low percentage and most likely will not require hospitalization.

    But they still get sick and I and others don't want your Covid germs on us no matter how much it affects us.

    You can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus to others, vaccinated and especially to those who are not.

    Masks? Come on....wake up! It's been 100% proven that masks do indeed highly prevent getting the virus and spreading the virus and not just Covid.

    Why are you ignoring all the other nasty viruses and bacterias in the world that masks help prevent.

    And finally, can you explain why surgeons and medical teams wear MASKS in hospital operating rooms?

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I am not saying to rush this thing, but isn't the fact that the medical/scientific community put forth an amazing project to stem the tide of the pandemic thru introduction of safely developed and proven vaccines, so that we could prevent further sickness/death associated with covid-19?

    The goal was never to rush an unknown entity into arms of citizens round the globe. It took the length of time it did, because it is highly complicated stuff. Normally it would have taken longer, but the world pretty much agreed that more concerted effort was required to get us over the finish line sooner than later. I for one am extremely happy with the timeliness, the effort, the research, the testing and the ultimate approvals. I don't see the need to wait, when folks are dying and long term side effects may be dangerous.....and the community of legitimate experts signed on.
    Like I said I hope it works out for all. I have respect for the hard work of all in the medical & science industry who have the intent to help and save lives. Unfortunately their is also people in the industry making billions and that is their main goal. I believe a healthy lifestyle (eating clean Whole Foods, & regular exercise are the best way to build ones immune system and have a better quality of life).
    My personal experience with medications has resulted in side effects worse than the problem I was treating. Because of that and the fact Covid has an extremely high survival rate, I will wait until the FDA fully approve’s the vaccines.



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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Im on the same page with you, when it comes to risk/reward. As far as the vaccine goes my wife is but as long as mask are still be enforced everywhere I will continue to wear my mask and wait until the FDA fully approves the vaccines. I don’t enough about the vaccines to decide to take them, or encourage anyone to take them. I’m not anti or pro vaccines. I think more time is needed.
    I am not saying to rush this thing, but isn't the fact that the medical/scientific community put forth an amazing project to stem the tide of the pandemic thru introduction of safely developed and proven vaccines, so that we could prevent further sickness/death associated with covid-19?

    The goal was never to rush an unknown entity into arms of citizens round the globe. It took the length of time it did, because it is highly complicated stuff. Normally it would have taken longer, but the world pretty much agreed that more concerted effort was required to get us over the finish line sooner than later. I for one am extremely happy with the timeliness, the effort, the research, the testing and the ultimate approvals. I don't see the need to wait, when folks are dying and long term side effects may be dangerous.....and the community of legitimate experts signed on.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    My wife and I will have received our 2nd shots in a couple of weeks....but that will not stop me from wearing a mask in certain situations. It's a "several pronged approach". Masks, distancing, cleanliness, 2 shots of vaccine....and whatever else adds any value to the cause. That does include your take on health.

    I may be old school, but if the experts advise me to take this vaccine, I take it. Lets be clear, there are typically side effects and possible negative outcomes with many meds/injected things we live with. I don't like anesthetics, but I do not like surgery without it. I do not love needles in my mouth, but have you ever struck a raw nerve in your tooth? I don't like having too many x-rays, but if I have a broken bone, I think it should be checked out. If doctors ever tell me that I need certain meds to allow me to live a decent life, I will not have to think too long about it. And in this case, if the experts, and I repeat that a lot, advise me that this vaccine will do me and my community more good than harm, I make that a key part of my decision.
    Im on the same page with you, when it comes to risk/reward. As far as the vaccine goes my wife is but as long as mask are still be enforced everywhere I will continue to wear my mask and wait until the FDA fully approves the vaccines. I don’t enough about the vaccines to decide to take them, or encourage anyone to take them. I’m not anti or pro vaccines. I think more time is needed.
    I hope that the vaccines turn out to be safe, I am concerned with the bypassing of normal protocols for vaccines, and after seeing non stop death and case counts, very little reporting of side effects or deaths.


    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-30-2021, 11:06 AM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    So people who don’t get vaccinated are the problem? Please explain how your vaccine doesn’t work if someone else isn’t vaccinated!

    And what happen to masks? I thought they were the way to fight the virus.
    My wife and I will have received our 2nd shots in a couple of weeks....but that will not stop me from wearing a mask in certain situations. It's a "several pronged approach". Masks, distancing, cleanliness, 2 shots of vaccine....and whatever else adds any value to the cause. That does include your take on health.

    I may be old school, but if the experts advise me to take this vaccine, I take it. Lets be clear, there are typically side effects and possible negative outcomes with many meds/injected things we live with. I don't like anesthetics, but I do not like surgery without it. I do not love needles in my mouth, but have you ever struck a raw nerve in your tooth? I don't like having too many x-rays, but if I have a broken bone, I think it should be checked out. If doctors ever tell me that I need certain meds to allow me to live a decent life, I will not have to think too long about it. And in this case, if the experts, and I repeat that a lot, advise me that this vaccine will do me and my community more good than harm, I make that a key part of my decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    I believe I have respected others lives, by wearing my mask. Now it seems the goalpost have been moved to “ you don’t care about others if your not vaccinated”.

    I call it a synthetic acid because that’s what it is:

    The definition of RNA (ribonucleic acid)

    The vaccine transfects molecules of synthetic RNA into immunity cells. Once inside the immune cells, the vaccine's RNA functions as mRNA, causing the cells to build the foreign protein that would normally be produced by a pathogen(such as a virus) or by a cancer cell.

    The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines use mRNA technology, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses the more traditional virus-based technology.
    SM-102 is the 1st ingredient listed in the Moderna vaccine.....

    "SM-102 (heptadecan-9-yl 8-((2-hydroxyethyl) (6-oxo-6-(undecyloxy) hexyl) amino) octanoate) is an ionizable amino lipid that has been used in combination with other lipids in the formation of lipid nanoparticles. Administration of luciferase with mRNA in SM-102-containing lipid nanoparticles induces hepatic luciferase expression in mice. Formulations containing SM-102 have been used in the development of lipid nanoparticles for delivery of mRNA-based vaccines."

    all "fact check" sites are going to say it's safe....sure it is

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  • 58Miller
    replied
    An interesting fact to note is no animal study went beyond 56 days presumably because the immediate goal was to prove mRNA vaccines could mount a good immune response with little acute adverse effects. Hence, we have no data even in animal studies as to long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines. mRNA vaccines are still considered experimental and people receiving these vaccines are part of the experiment. Long term data is currently being collected until 2022. Bottom line is we don’t know the long term adverse effects.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    Great analogy Can. Reminds me of the saying....There's people who would complain if they were hung with a brand new, American made rope,"

    When people state they legally don't have to be part of the solution, that automatically makes them part of the problem forcing others to suffer
    and pick up the slack. Very selfish and sad.....
    So people who don’t get vaccinated are the problem? Please explain how your vaccine doesn’t work if someone else isn’t vaccinated!

    And what happen to masks? I thought they were the way to fight the virus.

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I know.....this has got to be the lowest hanging fruit on the farm. Any lower and you could pick it while laying on your back.
    Great analogy Can. Reminds me of the saying....There's people who would complain if they were hung with a brand new, American made rope,"

    When people state they legally don't have to be part of the solution, that automatically makes them part of the problem forcing others to suffer
    and pick up the slack. Very selfish and sad.....

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I am not here to tell you to vaccinate your young daughters. I honestly don't have a strong opinion about young folks (of that age) getting the vaccine. If the numbers of younger folks was significant, I might have a stronger stance. And though the variants seem to be attacking a younger population base than the original virus, at this time I think 13/14 is debatable. I wish they would, for their own protection, but I am not an expert in terms of age and effect. And I understand if you have such concerns.

    I do think you are making the vaccine sound worse by your description of "synthetic acid", because we could make many everyday things sound awful if we use the medical/scientific terminology. All I have pushed here, and everywhere else in my life, is to respect others' lives when you make decisions. Sometimes we are inconvenienced because people we come in contact with are weaker or have a condition or can not handle the same things we can. But good human beings take that into account when they make decisions. If I was a smoker I would not smoke close to those who have an issue with smoking. If I was a risky driver, enjoying high speeds, I would not race where everyday folks drive. If I was really strong, I would not use my physical strength to overpower those who did not deserve it. I believe that, for the majority of the time, if you are given certain skills/talents/traits....you are given a little extra responsibility in this world. To use appropriately. This is not always about positive traits either. Just because I for example, could bench much more than my body weight., does not mean I should bully folks who I know I can bully. (Note: I am not even close to being described as super strong, but it may be relevant in situations I've experienced,)

    So with covid, my MO has been relatively the same, given what we all knew/know. That I should protect myself, and those around me. And be even more respectful of those who might be weak, or have a condition or situation, that makes them more prone to whatever the experts say is relevant to this horrific disease that has claimed so many lives, sickened so many people (perhaps long term), and caused so much other grief. And in all of this, I continue to believe that we are a community of humans, and it is our individual and collective job to work together in times like this. It comes under the auspices of "humanity".
    I believe I have respected others lives, by wearing my mask. Now it seems the goalpost have been moved to “ you don’t care about others if your not vaccinated”.

    I call it a synthetic acid because that’s what it is:

    The definition of RNA (ribonucleic acid)

    The vaccine transfects molecules of synthetic RNA into immunity cells. Once inside the immune cells, the vaccine's RNA functions as mRNA, causing the cells to build the foreign protein that would normally be produced by a pathogen(such as a virus) or by a cancer cell.

    The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines use mRNA technology, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses the more traditional virus-based technology.

    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-30-2021, 09:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    If the vaccine protects the vaccinated from getting Covid then each person is responsible and worrying about people who choose not to get vaccinated shouldn’t matter.

    My wife got the vaccine and I support her decision I am not comfortable with my 13 & 14 year old daughters being injected with a synthetic acid that nobody knows the long term effects of!!!
    I am not here to tell you to vaccinate your young daughters. I honestly don't have a strong opinion about young folks (of that age) getting the vaccine. If the numbers of younger folks was significant, I might have a stronger stance. And though the variants seem to be attacking a younger population base than the original virus, at this time I think 13/14 is debatable. I wish they would, for their own protection, but I am not an expert in terms of age and effect. And I understand if you have such concerns.

    I do think you are making the vaccine sound worse by your description of "synthetic acid", because we could make many everyday things sound awful if we use the medical/scientific terminology. All I have pushed here, and everywhere else in my life, is to respect others' lives when you make decisions. Sometimes we are inconvenienced because people we come in contact with are weaker or have a condition or can not handle the same things we can. But good human beings take that into account when they make decisions. If I was a smoker I would not smoke close to those who have an issue with smoking. If I was a risky driver, enjoying high speeds, I would not race where everyday folks drive. If I was really strong, I would not use my physical strength to overpower those who did not deserve it. I believe that, for the majority of the time, if you are given certain skills/talents/traits....you are given a little extra responsibility in this world. To use appropriately. This is not always about positive traits either. Just because I for example, could bench much more than my body weight., does not mean I should bully folks who I know I can bully. (Note: I am not even close to being described as super strong, but it may be relevant in situations I've experienced,)

    So with covid, my MO has been relatively the same, given what we all knew/know. That I should protect myself, and those around me. And be even more respectful of those who might be weak, or have a condition or situation, that makes them more prone to whatever the experts say is relevant to this horrific disease that has claimed so many lives, sickened so many people (perhaps long term), and caused so much other grief. And in all of this, I continue to believe that we are a community of humans, and it is our individual and collective job to work together in times like this. It comes under the auspices of "humanity".

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    As for "luck".....yes, many of us have been lucky. Wrong place, wrong time. That's called luck. On any given day, if we turn left instead of right, our whole life might change. But my circle of family/friends play be the rules, and I still think one or more of us got lucky. You know how that one person walked too close to you, and on a good day they were virus free, but on a bad day, they were a carrier. And because many of us, even those who think they are too healthy to get impacted, could get ill or worse, or quietly spread it because we did not have symptoms,....so I say some of us got lucky. I stand by it. It's like driving...you do everything correct and are the victim of a terrible driver.

    I never said pressure anyone either, but I strongly recommend they get vaccinated. And there is nothing ridiculous about trying to push "so called" healthy folks to get the vaccine, There are plenty of people who think they are healthy, and then they get a check up to find they have high blood pressure, or high cholesterol, or even some other condition or disease they did not know they had. So even though I believe you are healthy based on what you have stated here, there are plenty of others who might think they are, but are not.

    Bottom line, if you feel so strongly about your complete immunity to any form of sickness related to this virus, please at least make sure that you do not accidentally spread it. Because even though your inner circle may be strong as well, you never know where they spread it, and possibly that could include someone less healthy, per your definition.

    As for rewards and such, I have not really thought about it much.


    If the vaccine protects the vaccinated from getting Covid then each person is responsible and worrying about people who choose not to get vaccinated shouldn’t matter.

    My wife got the vaccine and I support her decision I am not comfortable with my 13 & 14 year old daughters being injected with a synthetic acid that nobody knows the long term effects of!!!
    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-30-2021, 08:06 AM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    That's one of the biggest problems in this country. So many people are too ignorant and lack the ability to engage their common sense when all of the needed facts and proven information is right in front of their face. This pandemic has finally reached a place where it's almost completely under control and the remedies / cures can be labeled as "abundant low hanging ripe fruit," but they refuse to pick it. They assume it contains worms or is poisonous so they completely ignore it even though there's a sign in front of every tree that states: "All fruit is free and 100% organic and safe and farmed by vegans. Just help yourself. Call this toll free number below for more reliable information."

    If only some people could get out of their own way to make the world safer for themselves AND others.
    I know.....this has got to be the lowest hanging fruit on the farm. Any lower and you could pick it while laying on your back.
    Last edited by CanDB; 05-29-2021, 08:12 PM.

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  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

    Covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have also been cherry picked. I believe Covid is deadly to a small percentage of our population and we should do all in our power to protect them. I also think we should have accurate data on what side effects and long term risks the vaccine’s can cause.

    I would never suggest someone shouldn’t take the vaccine or that they should. I think each person should research and decide for themselves based on what is best for them and their situation period!!!!

    Think about if you pressure someone not to get vaccinated and they get sick? Or if you pressure someone to get vaccinated and they get really sick. In both cases it’s should be up to the individual.
    That's one of the biggest problems in this country. So many people are too ignorant and lack the ability to engage their common sense when all of the needed facts and proven information is right in front of their face. This pandemic has finally reached a place where it's almost completely under control and the remedies / cures can be labeled as "abundant low hanging ripe fruit," but they refuse to pick it. They assume it contains worms or is poisonous so they completely ignore it even though there's a sign in front of every tree that states: "All fruit is free and 100% organic and safe and farmed by vegans. Just help yourself. Call this toll free number below for more reliable information."

    If only some people could get out of their own way to make the world safer for themselves AND others.

    Leave a comment:

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