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  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    Made this into a separate post on purpose because it will get more complex and into a specific example related to Covid 19

    How many different shows have you watched on Fauci’s emails? Same physical e-mails everyone has access to.

    One show is talking how Fauci should be indicated. Bring Fauci to justice.

    The shows Fauci are going on are pretty much saying nothing to see in these e-mails. It is all good.

    Other shows are making a timeline of Fauci’s e-mails compared to what he said publicly and suggesting this implies he is willing to change his story. Seem to want to say Fauci should not be trusted. They seem to want to imply Fauci will say one thing privately and something else publically.

    The people who want to be positive to Fauci will not talk about his potential conflicts of interests. Nor will they bring up some of his past comments which seem to contradict what he has testified to now. The people who are negative to Fauci will be hard on Fauci’s apparent conflict of interests, his testimony to Congress and his past comments on the subject.

    It is a great example imo of some people to choose to add some things to further a point and some people deciding none of these things are material and the audience should not even be aware of these things when deciding what to think of this issue.

    What is relevant? What does it all mean?

    Welcome to the 21st century. Before all this stuff was pretty hidden and we all just picked a source and trusted what they said. Now we get access to all this information and we get to decide for ourself...what is The Truth?
    Hadez for the score.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    My question is very simple. Do folks who have serious thoughts about what comprises the real truth in these times appreciate that they are possibly setting a higher standard for themselves...to know what the real truth is? It does not absolutely mean that, but by delving into "the truth about the truth", perhaps one must be pretty confident they know the divide line.

    As for "all news is biased", I think that's a stretch. I know of a number of news folks who approach each topic with objectivity. They may not always be correct, but they try. That comment is like saying none of us are perfect. I suppose if you look closely, they may have a connection or two that may lead others to be believe they are biased. But I think that's much more true of certain people, who as you say are politically motivated.
    It's not a "simple question." As Hadez pointed out...human beings are by our very nature opinionated and therefore biased. The honest amongst us can objectively admit that.

    What gets reported, what does not get reported, and how any story is reported, is always through the subjectively biased lens of a human's perspective. Moreover, is the audience looking for a preferred narrative? What news draws the most clicks (and therefore generates the most revenue)? Could some stories offend some viewers? Are those stories simply omitted? Who decides that and why? All of these variables (and countless others) further dilute objectivity.

    There is no easy push-button answer on this. We're human beings...not robots.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Made this into a separate post on purpose because it will get more complex and into a specific example related to Covid 19

    How many different shows have you watched on Fauci’s emails? Same physical e-mails everyone has access to.

    One show is talking how Fauci should be indicated. Bring Fauci to justice.

    The shows Fauci are going on are pretty much saying nothing to see in these e-mails. It is all good.

    Other shows are making a timeline of Fauci’s e-mails compared to what he said publicly and suggesting this implies he is willing to change his story. Seem to want to say Fauci should not be trusted. They seem to want to imply Fauci will say one thing privately and something else publically.

    The people who want to be positive to Fauci will not talk about his potential conflicts of interests. Nor will they bring up some of his past comments which seem to contradict what he has testified to now. The people who are negative to Fauci will be hard on Fauci’s apparent conflict of interests, his testimony to Congress and his past comments on the subject.

    It is a great example imo of some people to choose to add some things to further a point and some people deciding none of these things are material and the audience should not even be aware of these things when deciding what to think of this issue.

    What is relevant? What does it all mean?

    Welcome to the 21st century. Before all this stuff was pretty hidden and we all just picked a source and trusted what they said. Now we get access to all this information and we get to decide for ourself...what is The Truth?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I sort of get that, but I also believe that many, many news stories are delivered almost exactly as they happened. Car gets hit by another on a slippery stretch...driver responsible but tried to avoid. Inflation is up and may be a concern to the economy. Government overspent budget and here's where and why. Simple statements of fact with supportive information is news, and often the truth. Or when I read and listen to sports folks talking about what happened to The Winnipeg Jets this year...often what I read and hear is consistent, and aligns with what my friends and I think. Not much bias involved other than some speculation and additional stats and such to support an opinion. There is some disagreement, even between my friends and I, but is usually spirited and informative, not because we all agree but because it is basically truth oriented and very much unbiased when you review the collective opinion. I may for example have an opinion about a player or non player that impacts my perspective, but the root of it may be relevant. Another may not see it quite that way, but at least try to present info to support their side. It may even change my thinking. This is the basis of what these sports folks do. Nothing biased, rather solidly based on facts and experience.
    Ok lets start at this.

    There are probably over 1000 stories that could possibly be reported on any given day...who decides what get time on the media you are watching? Are you trying to tell me the person or people who decide that have no human emotions or thoughts about what they think is important and what can be left out?

    Ok each story probably has a lot to it. More often than not it is impossible to tell the whole story in the time television takes to bring the story to your attention. Who decides what goes into the news piece and what information does not go into the news piece? Are you trying to tell me the person or people who decide that have no human emotions or thoughts about what they think is important and what can be left out?

    This is just basic human nature so far. Just people with thoughts and emotions. Human beings.

    We are not even touching how sponsors or people with connections start to interact with the news upper management and make sure what is reported is to their ideological motivations.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-09-2021, 03:12 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    IMO anything that comes from humans will have bias. It does not make it good or bad...it just means I should understand the bias as I take in the information. I need to be careful with any source that has a bias that aligns with me bias for many reasons.
    I sort of get that, but I also believe that many, many news stories are delivered almost exactly as they happened. Car gets hit by another on a slippery stretch...driver responsible but tried to avoid. Inflation is up and may be a concern to the economy. Government overspent budget and here's where and why. Simple statements of fact with supportive information is news, and often the truth. Or when I read and listen to sports folks talking about what happened to The Winnipeg Jets this year...often what I read and hear is consistent, and aligns with what my friends and I think. Not much bias involved other than some speculation and additional stats and such to support an opinion. There is some disagreement, even between my friends and I, but is usually spirited and informative, not because we all agree but because it is basically truth oriented and very much unbiased when you review the collective opinion. I may for example have an opinion about a player or non player that impacts my perspective, but the root of it may be relevant. Another may not see it quite that way, but at least try to present info to support their side. It may even change my thinking. This is the basis of what these sports folks do. Nothing biased, rather solidly based on facts and experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    My question is very simple. Do folks who have serious thoughts about what comprises the real truth in these times appreciate that they are possibly setting a higher standard for themselves...to know what the real truth is? It does not absolutely mean that, but by delving into "the truth about the truth", perhaps one must be pretty confident they know the divide line.

    As for "all news is biased", I think that's a stretch. I know of a number of news folks who approach each topic with objectivity. They may not always be correct, but they try. That comment is like saying none of us are perfect. I suppose if you look closely, they may have a connection or two that may lead others to be believe they are biased. But I think that's much more true of certain people, who as you say are politically motivated.
    IMO anything that comes from humans will have bias. It does not make it good or bad...it just means I should understand the bias as I take in the information. I need to be careful with any source that has a bias that aligns with me bias for many reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I am not aggressively looking for info every hour of every day, though it is agreed to that we should seek other opinions. To a point, for example I have no inclination to watch Fox anymore based on their track record.

    But generally I seek out trustworthy reporters, those with their personal objectivity skin in the game. And if I watch/read an assortment of decent reporting, and not all tied to a party or an agenda, and the facts come out relatively similar, I feel pretty confident that I am getting a good read on the situation.

    To those who are vulnerable and so naive as to believe things that are clearly manufactured, they become part of the problem. They need to gain some experience, mature and maybe learn how to do some research. Many of them are hooked onto their little devices, and often come across as poorly educated in the ways of the world, because they are affixed to whatever trickery comes directly to them.

    It's not a new topic, but common sense is what's missing. If you buy everything that's being sold (in some places), you are bound to get some bad product. But that's on you. Here's one little off the cuff tip....if it's got any conspiracy to it, walk away. That's kind of a no brainer as they say.

    OK, a question for you and any others who have a strong take on "the truth". How confident are you that you understand the truth? By commenting on this topic, does it automatically qualify you as being a truth whisperer? I am not saying you aren't, but I've read people saying the same things, and based on their views on certain things, I don't believe they understand the truth. But they would say they do.
    On the first part...I personally pick and choose where my efforts go. When it comes to Nuggets or Avalanche the effort is very little for example. When it comes to the Broncos...lot more effort from me.

    When it comes to Covid-19.....since I was still coming to work the whole time I pretty much put more effort into Covid-19 in 1 year than I have into nearly everything else my entire life.

    "The Truth".....my opinion is write whatever I think in pencil. At anytime more information can come to shed light on something I was not aware of.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post

    I seriously don't understand why this is anything other than a slam-dunk assertion of reality. All news is biased. Period...the end.

    To dwell on this further would only involve politics, and out of respect for the CoC, the mods, and all members/viewers of this message board, I will decline any further comment.
    My question is very simple. Do folks who have serious thoughts about what comprises the real truth in these times appreciate that they are possibly setting a higher standard for themselves...to know what the real truth is? It does not absolutely mean that, but by delving into "the truth about the truth", perhaps one must be pretty confident they know the divide line.

    As for "all news is biased", I think that's a stretch. I know of a number of news folks who approach each topic with objectivity. They may not always be correct, but they try. That comment is like saying none of us are perfect. I suppose if you look closely, they may have a connection or two that may lead others to be believe they are biased. But I think that's much more true of certain people, who as you say are politically motivated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    OK, a question for you and any others who have a strong take on "the truth". How confident are you that you understand the truth? By commenting on this topic, does it automatically qualify you as being a truth whisperer? I am not saying you aren't, but I've read people saying the same things, and based on their views on certain things, I don't believe they understand the truth. But they would say they do.
    I seriously don't understand why this is anything other than a slam-dunk assertion of reality. All news is biased. Period...the end.

    To dwell on this further would only involve politics, and out of respect for the CoC, the mods, and all members/viewers of this message board, I will decline any further comment.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    The truth is not hiding...it is just lots of people are trying to present their side of the truth to make it easy to find. They have all kinds of motivation to make it easy for people to see their version of the truth.

    I have seen people say Boomers more than any population group fall under that category I bolded in your post. The cause is said to be Boomers are not comfortable with the various forms of new sources of information coming in from podcasts and youtube. They tend to stick with television news and radio news.

    My personal opinion is it comes to the effort each person is wiling to put into it. When it comes to Avalanche or Nugget news I pretty much take whatever is the first thing to come to my attention and I am done with my efforts. When it comes to Broncos and the NFL in general I spend a lot more time looking for various sources. Lucky for me when it comes to the NFL there are lots of news sources. Trick is figuring out which ones just rehashing same popular news to get clicks/views/likes and which sources are actually taking them time to do some football research and present a unique critical thought.

    I used sports as it should be easier example to follow. It holds true to all sources. We should pay attention to who is putting effort into their material, who is just rehashing popular material to try and feed their incentive structure. Try to determine which sources are ideologically motivated and who it taking the time to put together a well researched piece doing their best to present all sides of the story. Ultimately we all should know if we want the whole story we can not just stop at one or two sources. The more "truth" we want the more effort we are going to have to put into finding it. That includes looking at all sides of the story and taking a moment to consider maybe any side is the "truth"
    I am not aggressively looking for info every hour of every day, though it is agreed to that we should seek other opinions. To a point, for example I have no inclination to watch Fox anymore based on their track record.

    But generally I seek out trustworthy reporters, those with their personal objectivity skin in the game. And if I watch/read an assortment of decent reporting, and not all tied to a party or an agenda, and the facts come out relatively similar, I feel pretty confident that I am getting a good read on the situation.

    To those who are vulnerable and so naive as to believe things that are clearly manufactured, they become part of the problem. They need to gain some experience, mature and maybe learn how to do some research. Many of them are hooked onto their little devices, and often come across as poorly educated in the ways of the world, because they are affixed to whatever trickery comes directly to them.

    It's not a new topic, but common sense is what's missing. If you buy everything that's being sold (in some places), you are bound to get some bad product. But that's on you. Here's one little off the cuff tip....if it's got any conspiracy to it, walk away. That's kind of a no brainer as they say.

    OK, a question for you and any others who have a strong take on "the truth". How confident are you that you understand the truth? By commenting on this topic, does it automatically qualify you as being a truth whisperer? I am not saying you aren't, but I've read people saying the same things, and based on their views on certain things, I don't believe they understand the truth. But they would say they do.
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-09-2021, 11:46 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    The truth is not hiding...it is just lots of people are trying to present their side of the truth to make it easy to find. They have all kinds of motivation to make it easy for people to see their version of the truth.

    I have seen people say Boomers more than any population group fall under that category I bolded in your post. The cause is said to be Boomers are not comfortable with the various forms of new sources of information coming in from podcasts and youtube. They tend to stick with television news and radio news.

    My personal opinion is it comes to the effort each person is wiling to put into it. When it comes to Avalanche or Nugget news I pretty much take whatever is the first thing to come to my attention and I am done with my efforts. When it comes to Broncos and the NFL in general I spend a lot more time looking for various sources. Lucky for me when it comes to the NFL there are lots of news sources. Trick is figuring out which ones just rehashing same popular news to get clicks/views/likes and which sources are actually taking them time to do some football research and present a unique critical thought.

    I used sports as it should be easier example to follow. It holds true to all sources. We should pay attention to who is putting effort into their material, who is just rehashing popular material to try and feed their incentive structure. Try to determine which sources are ideologically motivated and who it taking the time to put together a well researched piece doing their best to present all sides of the story. Ultimately we all should know if we want the whole story we can not just stop at one or two sources. The more "truth" we want the more effort we are going to have to put into finding it. That includes looking at all sides of the story and taking a moment to consider maybe any side is the "truth"
    Well stated, my friend. Far too often, people put blinders on, and refuse to even acknowledge that which exists outside of their preferred worldview. Broncos news is a perfect example...literally everything/anything is either: orange glasses, sky is falling, or a combination of both (for those that try to seek out more of the story). Each one will claim to be the "truth," and each side has at least some merit.

    All news details the same pattern, with bias intrinsic and woven into the narrative...and it's entirely up to the consumer of such info to do their due diligence. Or to put it another way...to be better informed, don't be lazy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    In terms of the truth in these fine times, I see media being an issue, but I also see an internet charged world where people sit around and seek out like minded people/groups. Another alarming aspect of life since Internet arrived, is how folks can now team up with others around the globe to share their nastiness, and in some cases, organize. I think we'd be surprised to see how many ordinary folks are online with others with bad intentions. It's too easy nowadays. Just find a creepy spot in the house/apartment and join a cult.

    Anyway...as much as the truth is sometimes hard to find, maybe too many only look for the truth according to them.
    The truth is not hiding...it is just lots of people are trying to present their side of the truth to make it easy to find. They have all kinds of motivation to make it easy for people to see their version of the truth.

    I have seen people say Boomers more than any population group fall under that category I bolded in your post. The cause is said to be Boomers are not comfortable with the various forms of new sources of information coming in from podcasts and youtube. They tend to stick with television news and radio news.

    My personal opinion is it comes to the effort each person is wiling to put into it. When it comes to Avalanche or Nugget news I pretty much take whatever is the first thing to come to my attention and I am done with my efforts. When it comes to Broncos and the NFL in general I spend a lot more time looking for various sources. Lucky for me when it comes to the NFL there are lots of news sources. Trick is figuring out which ones just rehashing same popular news to get clicks/views/likes and which sources are actually taking them time to do some football research and present a unique critical thought.

    I used sports as it should be easier example to follow. It holds true to all sources. We should pay attention to who is putting effort into their material, who is just rehashing popular material to try and feed their incentive structure. Try to determine which sources are ideologically motivated and who it taking the time to put together a well researched piece doing their best to present all sides of the story. Ultimately we all should know if we want the whole story we can not just stop at one or two sources. The more "truth" we want the more effort we are going to have to put into finding it. That includes looking at all sides of the story and taking a moment to consider maybe any side is the "truth"

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    In terms of the truth in these fine times, I see media being an issue, but I also see an internet charged world where people sit around and seek out like minded people/groups. Another alarming aspect of life since Internet arrived, is how folks can now team up with others around the globe to share their nastiness, and in some cases, organize. I think we'd be surprised to see how many ordinary folks are online with others with bad intentions. It's too easy nowadays. Just find a creepy spot in the house/apartment and join a cult.

    Anyway...as much as the truth is sometimes hard to find, maybe too many only look for the truth according to them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    It's getting a little too political. Please don't cross the line.

    Covid is / should be a health issue, not a political one.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Thank you! I always appreciate your posts. I’m really hoping this time next year we have a decisive victory over Covid. Not just in the states but all countries dealing with the Pandemic.
    You know what's also pretty cool....not having to await a neg just because you offered your opinion on something. In a world where free speech should be valued, that's definite progress.





    Leave a comment:

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