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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Luck? The majority of people that get Covid don’t even have symptoms. The elderly and those with underlying conditions have been the 95% or more of those hospitalized and died. They are who should be protected. Pressuring a healthy person to get the vaccine is ridiculous!!!! Encourage them, let them do the research and leave it alone. If vaccines work then those with the vaccine have nothing to worry about. I supported masks in public places but the vaccine push is out of control. People have gotten very sick and in some cases died. It’s a serious decision, and very odd that people are being paid and given gifts for taking it. Nobody is giving out gifts and prizes for people living a healthy lifestyle, the reward is in having a better quality of life.
    As for "luck".....yes, many of us have been lucky. Wrong place, wrong time. That's called luck. On any given day, if we turn left instead of right, our whole life might change. But my circle of family/friends play be the rules, and I still think one or more of us got lucky. You know how that one person walked too close to you, and on a good day they were virus free, but on a bad day, they were a carrier. And because many of us, even those who think they are too healthy to get impacted, could get ill or worse, or quietly spread it because we did not have symptoms,....so I say some of us got lucky. I stand by it. It's like driving...you do everything correct and are the victim of a terrible driver.

    I never said pressure anyone either, but I strongly recommend they get vaccinated. And there is nothing ridiculous about trying to push "so called" healthy folks to get the vaccine, There are plenty of people who think they are healthy, and then they get a check up to find they have high blood pressure, or high cholesterol, or even some other condition or disease they did not know they had. So even though I believe you are healthy based on what you have stated here, there are plenty of others who might think they are, but are not.

    Bottom line, if you feel so strongly about your complete immunity to any form of sickness related to this virus, please at least make sure that you do not accidentally spread it. Because even though your inner circle may be strong as well, you never know where they spread it, and possibly that could include someone less healthy, per your definition.

    As for rewards and such, I have not really thought about it much.



    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I agree that relevant data is critical, but I also believe that those involved, who have ethical responsibility, have a process that does not leave stones uncovered with respect to likelihood of problems. They conduct business with due diligence. There is no room for error for various reasons, one being the basic aspect of liability. The cost of failing their patients and causing them harm, maybe death, is unimaginable if it became a very real flaw. But more than that, these folks believe in what they do, and how to do it. They do not shoot for failure in any way, shape or form.

    I do not agree necessarily that a small % of the population is in any possible danger. It is far too early for that assumption to be made. I know you are big on the health of the citizens, and it is a relevant factor no doubt, but there is plenty of evidence that healthy folks have died, or been very ill.

    And I for one believe that as team players, we should strongly consider receiving the vaccine. I believe that the less sick we all are, the better off we'll all be. I've seen far too much of the spread of the virus because folks thought they knew more than the experts. They disobeyed rules, or interpreted them as they wished, and when there were outbreaks we'd often find out that it was because of irresponsible behaviour, or lack of proper knowledge perhaps. As the saying goes, "take your medicine", and carry on. No doubt, you may be lucky and avoid the virus with no vaccine, but cmon, you have to appreciate the linkage between the massive vaccine roll out and the shrinking caseload.
    Luck? The majority of people that get Covid don’t even have symptoms. The elderly and those with underlying conditions have been the 95% or more of those hospitalized and died. They are who should be protected. Pressuring a healthy person to get the vaccine is ridiculous!!!! Encourage them, let them do the research and leave it alone. If vaccines work then those with the vaccine have nothing to worry about. I supported masks in public places but the vaccine push is out of control. People have gotten very sick and in some cases died. It’s a serious decision, and very odd that people are being paid and given gifts for taking it. Nobody is giving out gifts and prizes for people living a healthy lifestyle, the reward is in having a better quality of life.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

    Covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have also been cherry picked. I believe Covid is deadly to a small percentage of our population and we should do all in our power to protect them. I also think we should have accurate data on what side effects and long term risks the vaccine’s can cause.

    I would never suggest someone shouldn’t take the vaccine or that they should. I think each person should research and decide for themselves.
    I agree that relevant data is critical, but I also believe that those involved, who have ethical responsibility, have a process that does not leave stones uncovered with respect to likelihood of problems. They conduct business with due diligence. There is no room for error for various reasons, one being the basic aspect of liability. The cost of failing their patients and causing them harm, maybe death, is unimaginable if it became a very real flaw. But more than that, these folks believe in what they do, and how to do it. They do not shoot for failure in any way, shape or form.

    I do not agree necessarily that a small % of the population is in any possible danger. It is far too early for that assumption to be made. I know you are big on the health of the citizens, and it is a relevant factor no doubt, but there is plenty of evidence that healthy folks have died, or been very ill.

    And I for one believe that as team players, we should strongly consider receiving the vaccine. I believe that the less sick we all are, the better off we'll all be. I've seen far too much of the spread of the virus because folks thought they knew more than the experts. They disobeyed rules, or interpreted them as they wished, and when there were outbreaks we'd often find out that it was because of irresponsible behaviour, or lack of proper knowledge perhaps. As the saying goes, "take your medicine", and carry on. No doubt, you may be lucky and avoid the virus with no vaccine, but cmon, you have to appreciate the linkage between the massive vaccine roll out and the shrinking caseload.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    My comment is more of a lingering one, given that it appears there are ongoing suspicions about the "counts", the vaccine itself, Fauci and otherwise. It "feels" like there are concerns of that nature. Whereas I see most things aligned; covid was greatly mismanaged last year by many countries; the numbers may not be accurate, but they were significantly high, reflecting a real problem in spite of concerns from some who keep challenging the info given it seems to be making covid a worse thing than it is....I could care less if they were even out 10% in exact cause of death, given how freakin high the numbers are, and there are studies that suggest covid caused more deaths than reported; I know I am not supposed to talk political, so I will say this objectively as possible, that I think viewpoints are often based on party preference.....and I believe party should have zero bearing in a catastrophe; the current US President and his team have done a really good job attacking this issue with a logistically sound process, much better than was done last year. They are using a plan; Vaccines were always going to be a big part of the solution, and they are in my books, other than strategic management by countries like New Zealand, Australia and South Korea. Based on the stats I read, vaccines are proving to be extremely valuable in the cause to move us forward, and start being confident again.

    As for your question....at some point I believe you have to make hard decisions, and not wait for lengthy periods to give answers to questions like yours. If the medical/scientific community does its job, which was under some severe stress I'll add, then I definitely take the vaccine, because the alternative of waiting and questioning can be very disruptive to the organized effort to get healthy again. Each day folks die from covid, and each day, many are still sick and may suffer long term damage. Waiting for additional info to what the medical/scientific community feel confident about is not my way of progressing. I do have trust in them. They have been correct in 90+% of what was going to happen and how it would be taken care of. People tend to cherry pick what went wrong, or the details of the case/death numbers, or what one medical authority stated in the infancy of this pandemic. Where's the respect for these folks, who in spite of political interference, got most of it right...in a situation that was as new as it gets, and as downright dangerous as it gets? I have plenty of respect for that community. And if their conclusions take care of the question you ask, I am 100% behind them. In fact, I am quite certain they did not take chances, in spite of the amazing turnaround time, because drugs must meet extremely high standards, and in this case, there are multiple companies involved, and a gazillion ethical scientists/medical experts who endorse the products. Any sign of concern is quickly dealt with.
    Covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have also been cherry picked. I believe Covid is deadly to a small percentage of our population and we should do all in our power to protect them. I also think we should have accurate data on what side effects and long term risks the vaccine’s can cause.

    I would never suggest someone shouldn’t take the vaccine or that they should. I think each person should research and decide for themselves based on what is best for them and their situation period!!!!

    Think about if you pressure someone not to get vaccinated and they get sick? Or if you pressure someone to get vaccinated and they get really sick. In both cases it’s should be up to the individual.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-29-2021, 02:33 PM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

    Asking about the deaths and hospitalizations is not anti vaccine. It’s a question that should be answered. If someone has a 99.7% chance of surviving Covid is injecting a synthetic acid in your body wise?
    My comment is more of a lingering one, given that it appears there are ongoing suspicions about the "counts", the vaccine itself, Fauci and otherwise. It "feels" like there are concerns of that nature. Whereas I see most things aligned; covid was greatly mismanaged last year by many countries; the numbers may not be accurate, but they were significantly high, reflecting a real problem in spite of concerns from some who keep challenging the info given it seems to be making covid a worse thing than it is....I could care less if they were even out 10% in exact cause of death, given how freakin high the numbers are, and there are studies that suggest covid caused more deaths than reported; I know I am not supposed to talk political, so I will say this objectively as possible, that I think viewpoints are often based on party preference.....and I believe party should have zero bearing in a catastrophe; the current US President and his team have done a really good job attacking this issue with a logistically sound process, much better than was done last year. They are using a plan; Vaccines were always going to be a big part of the solution, and they are in my books, other than strategic management by countries like New Zealand, Australia and South Korea. Based on the stats I read, vaccines are proving to be extremely valuable in the cause to move us forward, and start being confident again.

    As for your question....at some point I believe you have to make hard decisions, and not wait for lengthy periods to give answers to questions like yours. If the medical/scientific community does its job, which was under some severe stress I'll add, then I definitely take the vaccine, because the alternative of waiting and questioning can be very disruptive to the organized effort to get healthy again. Each day folks die from covid, and each day, many are still sick and may suffer long term damage. Waiting for additional info to what the medical/scientific community feel confident about is not my way of progressing. I do have trust in them. They have been correct in 90+% of what was going to happen and how it would be taken care of. People tend to cherry pick what went wrong, or the details of the case/death numbers, or what one medical authority stated in the infancy of this pandemic. Where's the respect for these folks, who in spite of political interference, got most of it right...in a situation that was as new as it gets, and as downright dangerous as it gets? I have plenty of respect for that community. And if their conclusions take care of the question you ask, I am 100% behind them. In fact, I am quite certain they did not take chances, in spite of the amazing turnaround time, because drugs must meet extremely high standards, and in this case, there are multiple companies involved, and a gazillion ethical scientists/medical experts who endorse the products. Any sign of concern is quickly dealt with.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    I am not sure if I read things correctly, but how many of you are against this vaccine? It's clearly working, no matter how concerned folks are about how the deaths were counted, or how honest the "administrators". I'd recommend getting the shots, based on trust in the medical folks, my positive history with shots, and the fact that the numbers are declining quickly in most countries who have passed the 3rd wave.

    Based on what I see, events are happening, especially in The US, with loads of fans and participants. It may be for many reasons, but vaccines are clearly a major factor.
    Asking about the deaths and hospitalizations is not anti vaccine. It’s a question that should be answered. If someone has a 99.7% chance of surviving Covid is injecting a synthetic acid in your body wise?

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    I am not sure if I read things correctly, but how many of you are against this vaccine? It's clearly working, no matter how concerned folks are about how the deaths were counted, or how honest the "administrators". I'd recommend getting the shots, based on trust in the medical folks, my positive history with shots, and the fact that the numbers are declining quickly in most countries who have passed the 3rd wave.

    Based on what I see, events are happening, especially in The US, with loads of fans and participants. It may be for many reasons, but vaccines are clearly a major factor.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    Do you really think they would give a factual number?
    Based on how they counted Covid deaths, no!

    According to the CDC 9683 died in the United States with only having COVID-19 listed on their death certificate. The CDC also states almost 600k have died from Covid-19.

    It appears now with the vaccine if you die only from side effects from vaccine that is a death.

    Instead of offering prizes to take it I would love to see an on going count like they did with Covid, so people can see how safe it really is.



    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Does anyone have the stats on deaths related to vaccines?

    I would think their would be an accurate count of those hospitalized and how many have died.

    We all understand that all people with Covid 19 regardless of age and underlying conditions was counted as hospitalized and/or death was a Covid death.

    Is that how those who have been affected by the vaccine are being counted?

    Something I think most people who are considering being vaccinated would want to know.
    Do you really think they would give a factual number?

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Does anyone have the stats on deaths related to vaccines?

    I would think their would be an accurate count of those hospitalized and how many have died.

    We all understand that all people with Covid 19 regardless of age and underlying conditions was counted as hospitalized and/or death was a Covid death.

    Is that how those who have been affected by the vaccine are being counted?

    Something I think most people who are considering being vaccinated would want to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    The good news, my wife and I will be getting our 2nd vaccinations in 2 weeks and change.

    Lets roll baby!!

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by jazzbodog View Post

    I get what you're saying. Words in the english language can be interpreted differently at times. I guess that's why we have so many synonyms.

    I still struggle with "affect" and "effect".

    Thanks for your feedback.
    You say things that are often part of my take. I have worked hard to use "affect" and "effect" properly. I safely can say that I think I get them right. But I still have little rules that guide me.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post

    I live in Australia, what do you mean by "lengthened things" in reference to being met with 'scorn" ? Our economy is well on the road to recovery and we were quickly out of the technical recession that people feared would be a long-term reality, all without the traditional driver of population growth. We are way ahead of where governments and economists predicted we would be, somewhere to the tune of almost 100 billion less in debt actually based on the recent budget. I think certain governments particularly the left-leaning Victorian state government you mentioned will continue to make poor decisions on snap lockdowns like they have, but as a resident of a different state, what you are saying is not our reality at all.

    In terms of vaccination here, there is no urgency, and you can understand why. We as everyday residents have not had to concern ourselves for almost 6 months now, actually probably more like 9 or 10, with the peak covid-19 hysteria that seems to still exist in the US. Life has honestly been pretty normal outside of the random restrictions which would pop up for 3 days here, or 5 days there. We had 50K plus people at sporting events back in October last year and the restrictions when they pop up have been like, "no dancing at a nightclub for the next 5 days".

    But with so few cases and next to no deaths at all for an extended period, people just don't feel like it's a pressing issue and are not rushing out to get vaccinated, I have not yet and don't plan to honestly. Also this concern you mention in regards to lengthening things, our economy is growing without population growth, and borders are expected to be opened by late next year according to a federal government who wants to turn that economic driver on sooner if possible. So the lengthening things comment I just see as one made from only looking at the broad view of things without having an understanding of the behaviors and dynamics of the population.

    Also, our vaccination program will pick up extreme heat when the government tells the population you will need the jab to go to Bali, mass vaccination will occur at a rapid rate. Behavioural economics you could only understand when you know the way the people of the country think, I will be included in that stereotype.
    You live there, that's what makes your assessment more relevant. And based on what I have read, you are doing quite well indeed. Congrats!

    Leave a comment:


  • jazzbodog
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post

    Well there are details involved not captured in a dictionary defining.

    Essentially any theory can be called an opinion if someone wants to go that far with it. There are details about what is intended.

    In terms of scientist...and the leaders without agendas....imo they using the term theory as a set of observations made but when they use the word theory I think they are admitting more data needs to be gathered.

    When someone puts forth their opinion...they are kind of saying in their mind they have enough data to try and form a conclusion.
    I get what you're saying. Words in the english language can be interpreted differently at times. I guess that's why we have so many synonyms.

    I still struggle with "affect" and "effect".

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

    You've finally got a reason to be concerned, unlike last year when the 15 cases a day your province had was nothing compared to states that were dealing with 5000 to 10,000 cases per day. With that being said I do hope your province gets over the hump soon. We were in a very similar situation 3 weeks ago, and our citizens listened, we followed the guidelines, got our vaccinations (we should pass 60% with one dose tomorrow or Saturday) and now have a clearly laid out plan to complete reopening, IF we continue to do what we need to do (the dates thrown around out there as actual dates aren't true, they were dates we could see things happen based on current trends, but aren't set in stone, or even written in pencil). Hopefully Manitobans start following the rules at some point.

    Question for you about New Zealand and Australia and their "wisdom" they locked everyone down, harshly, and closed their borders to get to 0 cases. Now anytime cases even blip it leads to immediate shutdowns of large populations. Melbourne, a city of 5 million, in facing a 4th strict lockdown (their second lockdown was 111 days) because of 26 cases. They have very little vaccination going on in either country (New Zealand at 7.5% with one dose, Australia at 13.1%) so now their only answer is lockdowns and closed borders.

    Do you really think isolation is great (as you said) when it's led to massive lockdowns (way stricter than anything we've seen in Canada) when they get even a small number of cases and they're likely to remain dealing with a pandemic, and following this cycle long after many other countries are open for business? The praised "success" of New Zealand and Australia will be looked at with scorn in coming years because the only thing they've done is lengthened things.
    I live in Australia, what do you mean by "lengthened things" in reference to being met with 'scorn" ? Our economy is well on the road to recovery and we were quickly out of the technical recession that people feared would be a long-term reality, all without the traditional driver of population growth. We are way ahead of where governments and economists predicted we would be, somewhere to the tune of almost 100 billion less in debt actually based on the recent budget. I think certain governments particularly the left-leaning Victorian state government you mentioned will continue to make poor decisions on snap lockdowns like they have, but as a resident of a different state, what you are saying is not our reality at all.

    In terms of vaccination here, there is no urgency, and you can understand why. We as everyday residents have not had to concern ourselves for almost 6 months now, actually probably more like 9 or 10, with the peak covid-19 hysteria that seems to still exist in the US. Life has honestly been pretty normal outside of the random restrictions which would pop up for 3 days here, or 5 days there. We had 50K plus people at sporting events back in October last year and the restrictions when they pop up have been like, "no dancing at a nightclub for the next 5 days".

    But with so few cases and next to no deaths at all for an extended period, people just don't feel like it's a pressing issue and are not rushing out to get vaccinated, I have not yet and don't plan to honestly. Also this concern you mention in regards to lengthening things, our economy is growing without population growth, and borders are expected to be opened by late next year according to a federal government who wants to turn that economic driver on sooner if possible. So the lengthening things comment I just see as one made from only looking at the broad view of things without having an understanding of the behaviors and dynamics of the population.

    Also, our vaccination program will pick up extreme heat when the government tells the population you will need the jab to go to Bali, mass vaccination will occur at a rapid rate. Behavioural economics you could only understand when you know the way the people of the country think, I will be included in that stereotype.

    Leave a comment:

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