Corona virus

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The domestics are already happening in my area...

We are rural and People are used to having space...apparently the sunshine, mountains, rivers, and lakes keep marriages alive!

Your government tells people they can’t go outdoors by themselves?

[Peanut]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to make hubby a peanut shaped, peanut scented mask. He'll love it.

Decided not to do a peanut shaped one. It would look more like a lopsided eye mask.

I did make a special one for someone so that her glasses wouldn't fog up. Turned out nice. I had to remember how to work my sewing machine, it's been so long since I last used it.

I've been waiting for my husband to see the benefits of living with a germaphope...

I'm not sure what country it was in, it couldn't have been the states, but I saw a video of a guy who was walking his dog in the park and they grabbed him and took him home for violating the quarantine and left his dog behind at the park.... broke my heart.

I remember them early on saying it was ok to go outside and get exercise but wonder if that will change at all in the states. I officially work from home as of today, so my big outing each day will be walking the dogs... I can't imagine what it is like in other countries when you can't even do that.

Odd for them to leave the dog. Hopefully, he found his way home.

I was skimming this thread for a while and probably missed it. I'm sure someone else has to have mentioned, but was wondering when this is all over and done how many relationships end in divorce from couples being forced to spend too much time together.

I heard a gunshot in our neighborhood for the first time ever a couple of days ago. My first thought was I wonder who shot who and were they spending too much time together. Never heard any sirens. I keep watching to see what neighbor I don't see around. Maybe it was nothing.

Keep expecting to see more divorces, suicides, domestic abuse, and just plain crazy stuff if this quarantining continues for too long. It is probably wrong to worry more about that than the virus, but I worry more about that stuff.

I've heard of at least one suicide and that domestic abuse was on the rise. Sad.

I take parts of each day to concentrate on the good. I've stopped reading articles about the hydrochloroquine shortage (I find out Friday if I can get mine refilled) and about certain people. I do want to stay informed, but I need to find the silly dad jokes and cute animal pictures.

The bolded. I don't think that's wrong.

[Rastic]

Your government tells people they can’t go outdoors by themselves?

We had people issued citations for sitting in their cars at the beach. Local sheriffs said you have to stay home "except to get food, care for a relative or friend, get necessary health care, or go to an essential job." No joke.

This past weekend after reading about a similar incident in PA I decided to call the sheriff's department to check if we were under similar restrictions. I was told the exact opposite from their office - sure, you can go for a drive, be in your car so long as you are not violating the EO about distancing, public places, etc. Now they are saying the exact opposite. I am so frustrated. Either tell us what is or what isn't not both.

I agree with Butler, people will take only so much before a breaking point is reached. In our situation, I feel somewhat fortunate, A) nobody is sick, thank goodness, but B) we live on 2 acres so my kids can go outside regularly, play, get their crazies out and maintain some sense normalcy. We have friends who live in an apartment. No parks are open. All the playgrounds are closed. They are only supposed to leave minimally for anything.

I'm not suggesting I have a better alternative but I think some of this is too much. On my drive I passed a few hiking trails and public parks - along with expected notices the county had officers stationed at the entrances in their vehicles. No offense to LEOs doing their job but if they have to babysit a parking lot, why can't they allow people in to a field to let kids play and run while maintaining distance and protocol?

The mental health and domestic issues this will cause is scary stuff.

[2 Minute Warning]

Lets take a visit to some airports..shall we?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We had people issued citations for sitting in their cars at the beach. Local sheriffs said you have to stay home "except to get food, care for a relative or friend, get necessary health care, or go to an essential job." No joke.

This past weekend after reading about a similar incident in PA I decided to call the sheriff's department to check if we were under similar restrictions. I was told the exact opposite from their office - sure, you can go for a drive, be in your car so long as you are not violating the EO about distancing, public places, etc. Now they are saying the exact opposite. I am so frustrated. Either tell us what is or what isn't not both.

I agree with Butler, people will take only so much before a breaking point is reached. In our situation, I feel somewhat fortunate, A) nobody is sick, thank goodness, but B) we live on 2 acres so my kids can go outside regularly, play, get their crazies out and maintain some sense normalcy. We have friends who live in an apartment. No parks are open. All the playgrounds are closed. They are only supposed to leave minimally for anything.

I'm not suggesting I have a better alternative but I think some of this is too much. On my drive I passed a few hiking trails and public parks - along with expected notices the county had officers stationed at the entrances in their vehicles. No offense to LEOs doing their job but if they have to babysit a parking lot, why can't they allow people in to a field to let kids play and run while maintaining distance and protocol?

The mental health and domestic issues this will cause is scary stuff.

Ridiculous. People need sunshine and fresh air. UV rays kill the virus and Vitamin D is crucial for people right now.

[CanDB]

We had people issued citations for sitting in their cars at the beach. Local sheriffs said you have to stay home "except to get food, care for a relative or friend, get necessary health care, or go to an essential job." No joke.

This past weekend after reading about a similar incident in PA I decided to call the sheriff's department to check if we were under similar restrictions. I was told the exact opposite from their office - sure, you can go for a drive, be in your car so long as you are not violating the EO about distancing, public places, etc. Now they are saying the exact opposite. I am so frustrated. Either tell us what is or what isn't not both.

I agree with Butler, people will take only so much before a breaking point is reached. In our situation, I feel somewhat fortunate, A) nobody is sick, thank goodness, but B) we live on 2 acres so my kids can go outside regularly, play, get their crazies out and maintain some sense normalcy. We have friends who live in an apartment. No parks are open. All the playgrounds are closed. They are only supposed to leave minimally for anything.

I'm not suggesting I have a better alternative but I think some of this is too much. On my drive I passed a few hiking trails and public parks - along with expected notices the county had officers stationed at the entrances in their vehicles. No offense to LEOs doing their job but if they have to babysit a parking lot, why can't they allow people in to a field to let kids play and run while maintaining distance and protocol?

The mental health and domestic issues this will cause is scary stuff.

I can not imagine a more difficult job, to be the decision-maker in a jurisdiction, be it town, city, province, state, country...with regard to this pandemic. You run the risk of being criticized if you overreact to some degree, but much worse, you also risk being responsible for actual human lives, if you relax rules or do not implement on a timely and thorough basis. I know what side I'd be on. And with that great responsibility, I would be extremely cautious about relaxing enforcement of a restrictive set of social rules, until I have strong assurances that the stats are solid, and more so, that I had the support of the medical community.

You see, it would be a great disservice to us all if we took it a little lightly too soon, and the virus returned. because then you have to deal with a weakened confidence, potentially more depression/fear/negativity, and further impeding of progress made. Which not only impacts life, but delays further a solid return to economic stability.

I agree....rules must be consistent, and fairly administered. And sure, in some cases, rules seem a bit unnecessary. BUT, I would err on the too much vs too little. The job then is to perfect whatever rules are agreed upon by the decision-makers, guided by the medical community.

My go to in this pandemic....I believe history will show that those who reacted strongly, on a timely basis, and with seriousness, will be impacted less negatively. The late starters, the lax rule makers, the ones who accelerate the process too early, must be careful.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Can, I’m not sure what your reality is there, but here in Idaho I’ve seen 6 people I know get laid off where I work, and there are a lot more I didn’t know personally. Some of these jobs may never come back. There’s nothing casual about measures that cause people to lose their livelihoods. Some people who don’t live paycheck to paycheck aren’t as concerned about the effects this is having on the economy, but I digress.

Here in Idaho we aren’t like the gustapo as in other places, policing what people are doing in a secluded location while not in contact with anyone else or in the privacy of their automobile. There is nothing casual about what is going on here.

This is not sustainable for months on end.

[CanDB]

Can, I’m not sure what your reality is there, but here in Idaho I’ve seen 6 people I know get laid off where I work, and there are a lot more I didn’t know personally. Some of these jobs may never come back. There’s nothing casual about measures that cause people to lose their livelihoods. Some people who don’t live paycheck to paycheck aren’t as concerned about the effects this is having on the economy, but I digress.

Here in Idaho we aren’t like the gustapo as in other places, policing what people are doing in a secluded location while not in contact with anyone else or in the privacy of their automobile. There is nothing casual about what is going on here.

This is not sustainable for months on end.

I think your situation is less risky for sure, as long as the infection does not spread. In general however, I think rules must be hard in this scenario. If we make too many exceptions, it does not work. I keep hearing or reading about people breaking the rules, and when you look at their areas' stats, it is concerning.

Having said that, depending on where you live, the rules are different. What NY is doing is more restrictive I'm sure than where you live. It will vary. But one can not assume that a small location can not spread the virus, and even overwhelm it's medical community, as it too is small.

My concern is exceptions and more exceptions, especially within proven areas of infection.

And I feel for those who get laid off. It's a reality across the globe. And to your last point, I think it awful as is, but our collective actions can help reduce the downtime.

Wishing you and everyone good luck.

[Rastic]

I think your situation is less risky for sure, as long as the infection does not spread. In general however, I think rules must be hard in this scenario. If we make too many exceptions, it does not work. I keep hearing or reading about people breaking the rules, and when you look at their areas' stats, it is concerning.

Having said that, depending on where you live, the rules are different. What NY is doing is more restrictive I'm sure than where you live. It will vary. But one can not assume that a small location can not spread the virus, and even overwhelm it's medical community, as it too is small.

My concern is exceptions and more exceptions, especially within proven areas of infection.

And I feel for those who get laid off. It's a reality across the globe. And to your last point, I think it awful as is, but our collective actions can help reduce the downtime.

Wishing you and everyone good luck.

What is the scenario exactly? The models are woefully over estimating - and I'm fine with planning for worse outcomes vs best possible, but where is the line for overreach? A vague explanation of "seriousness" is insufficient.

The UK originally estimated 40 mill deaths with 1-2 mill in the US. Later that was downgraded, US deaths estimated 100 - 200 k. Later again estimates down to just over 81k, now estimates are at 60k with potentially skewed data as many countries are counting any death with CV19 as resultant of CV19. Add to that testing is still limited in many places so likely the infection rate may be much higher, as doctors believe, and thus the curve will look significantly different with a larger numerator.

Further to, the rules in place are based on their models - and we're told that was with the distancing and other social changes taken into account. Now with their numbers are nearly 67 - 83% less than their earlier predictions then I think we deserve an rational explanation why these rules should remain or why, as in CA and other places, they should become more strict.

First do not harm. That is a tough call in the midst of any epidemic for health protocol.

Unemployment and sucide:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1732539/
Conclusions: Being unemployed was associated with a twofold to threefold increased relative risk of death by suicide, compared with being employed. About half of this association might be attributable to confounding by mental illness

Unemployment and domestic violence: (nuanced, but still correlates for women)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0225101147.htm
A team of researchers, from the Department of Economics at Royal Holloway, discovered that high or rising female unemployment is associated with increases in domestic violence.

Unemployment and child neglect:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1103085315.htm
The number of reported cases of child neglect in the United States of America increased as a result of the spike in unemployment following the financial crisis of 2007-08, according to new Oxford University research.

10 million people applied for unemployment benefits in the US. How many have lost their company provided insurance? How many are in medication or treatment for a conic illness, disease, cancer, etc?

Sorry if I do not share a rosy point of view in light of what we are learning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Take care Can.

[CanDB]

What is the scenario exactly? The models are woefully over estimating - and I'm fine with planning for worse outcomes vs best possible, but where is the line for overreach? A vague explanation of "seriousness" is insufficient.

The UK originally estimated 40 mill deaths with 1-2 mill in the US. Later that was downgraded, US deaths estimated 100 - 200 k. Later again estimates down to just over 81k, now estimates are at 60k with potentially skewed data as many countries are counting any death with CV19 as resultant of CV19. Add to that testing is still limited in many places so likely the infection rate may be much higher, as doctors believe, and thus the curve will look significantly different with a larger numerator.

Further to, the rules in place are based on their models - and we're told that was with the distancing and other social changes taken into account. Now with their numbers are nearly 67 - 83% less than their earlier predictions then I think we deserve an rational explanation why these rules should remain or why, as in CA and other places, they should become more strict.

First do not harm. That is a tough call in the midst of any epidemic for health protocol.

Unemployment and sucide:


Unemployment and domestic violence: (nuanced, but still correlates for women)


Unemployment and child neglect:


10 million people applied for unemployment benefits in the US. How many have lost their company provided insurance? How many are in medication or treatment for a conic illness, disease, cancer, etc?

Sorry if I do not share a rosy point of view in light of what we are learning.

I would be careful with what you describe as "over-estimating". Are you clear that estimates, were and are, using the right assumptions? And how do you build in the amount of improvement based on following proper rules - wash hands, don't touch face, keep 6 feet apart, minimize social circles, and so on? I would suggest (strongly) that those who followed the rules early have helped reduce estimates, therefore I am in favour of intelligent caution, pretty much anywhere the virus can attack. And in light of what respectable medical folks prescribe. They are the ones to listen to for the most part. They live it, they understand it, and they do not have an agenda, other than minimizing pain and helping to save lives.

I am aware of the need to progress as soon as it makes sense, but there are some business types who have an agenda that may counter the gains we have made. My view...if you are not absolutely sure, stay cautious in how we fight the fight.

And can you tell me why anyone who is sticking by enforcement of these rules wants to prolong it? What's their agenda? I say it's for medical reasons.

There is no rosy picture. But being responsible has helped win the fight so far.

Last point....if this was a form of flu, even a harsh one, I would be less firm in my opinion. But until we know what this "alien" is up to, and if it returns, and if we can't find a good vaccine, I'm not dropping my guard. I want us to win this battle (with some assurances) and gradually up the economic aspect as soon as it makes total sense. Fortunately many can work from home, and some industries are super busy. Also, many companies are learning how to switch focus as nimbly as can be expected, to fulfill other business roles (like producing hospital materials/supplies). Doors will open more and more, but it has to be well thought out, with rule one being....safety first.

[dizzolve]

The regular people of this country haven't seen a dime of bailout yet that first bill immediately showered giant corporations with our tax dollars. Maybe that's why the stock market is doing great despite a grinding halt to nearly all productive activity

Read 1/3 of rents are late in Ca. this month

[Peanut]

Ridiculous. People need sunshine and fresh air. UV rays kill the virus and Vitamin D is crucial for people right now.

I don't want to jump into this discussion because I see both sides. It would be nice if agencies / law makers / whatever would be more consistent. I do what I need to do and that's stay away from people.

I just wanted to address the remark about UV rays killing the virus. I had read that, while it is true, it takes a concentrated amount to be effective. You would need a sunlamp (? can't remember what it's called) and it would cause damage to the skin. I didn't want anyone to think that standing out in the sun for 5 minutes would kill the virus.

Since I need to limit my exposure to the sun, I take vitamin D supplements. Helps with the "winter blues".

[CanDB]

Take care Can.

Thx pal!

Trust me, I want everyone back at work soon.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't want to jump into this discussion because I see both sides. It would be nice if agencies / law makers / whatever would be more consistent. I do what I need to do and that's stay away from people.

I just wanted to address the remark about UV rays killing the virus. I had read that, while it is true, it takes a concentrated amount to be effective. You would need a sunlamp (? can't remember what it's called) and it would cause damage to the skin. I didn't want anyone to think that standing out in the sun for 5 minutes would kill the virus.

Since I need to limit my exposure to the sun, I take vitamin D supplements. Helps with the "winter blues".

Well, I’m more referring to the likelihood of the virus being in places that are exposed to UV rays all day. I’m not suggesting if it’s on your face it will be dead in 5 minutes. I’m suggesting it will live on hard surfaces in-doors much longer than it will outside exposed to sunlight and UV rays