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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
    Where are you going to get your groceries....hence an essential service. It may suck for some people, but there are people in charge who are supposed to make these tough decisions and decide what we can live with and without for a little while. They don't do this on a whim either. There is thought that goes into this. Our Governor here had his stay at home order likened to Naziism. He is Jewish and was visibly upset when asked to comment. It seems ridiculous that asking to sacrifice something we like to do while people try to find a way to make this work as safely as possible for everyone is such a huge ask.
    It was not the governor asking state police to collect license plates, it was the mayor of Louisville. Collecting license plates doesn’t mean you’re acting lawfully. That’s why the Federal judge put a restraining order against the practice because those people weren’t violating the governor’s orders.

    Stop avoiding the question. I’ll ask again, how does social distancing work to prevent spreading the virus at grocery stores, but does not work at a drive in church service? Those cars were easily six feet apart. I guarantee cars in a crowded Costco parking lot are closer than six feet. People can sneeze on cars and carts at a grocery store.

    We have Constitutionally protected rights to practice our faith. That is essential for some people - as essential as buying groceries or liquor.

    One more time, can you point to any science that says social distancing works at a grocery store and not at a drive in church service?

    Forget whether or not it’s a grocery store or a church - does social distancing, washing hands and not touching your face help prevent the spread of the virus? Just a simple yes or no.....

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    • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
      It was not the governor asking state police to collect license plates, it was the mayor of Louisville. Collecting license plates doesn’t mean you’re acting lawfully. That’s why the Federal judge put a restraining order against the practice because those people weren’t violating the governor’s orders.

      Stop avoiding the question. I’ll ask again, how does social distancing work to prevent spreading the virus at grocery stores, but does not work at a drive in church service? Those cars were easily six feet apart. I guarantee cars in a crowded Costco parking lot are closer than six feet. People can sneeze on cars and carts at a grocery store.

      We have Constitutionally protected rights to practice our faith. That is essential for some people - as essential as buying groceries or liquor.

      One more time, can you point to any science that says social distancing works at a grocery store and not at a drive in church service?

      Forget whether or not it’s a grocery store or a church - does social distancing, washing hands and not touching your face help prevent the spread of the virus? Just a simple yes or no.....
      I'ma go with a yes on this one.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
        I'ma go with a yes on this one.
        I agree. Either it works or it doesn’t, regardless of where it’s practiced (or not practiced).

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        • In order to remove politics from the dialogue, here’s an observation from a state. Don’t worry about which state it could be, just follow along.

          One state is still experiencing a rise in Coronavirus cases and deaths. The state hasn’t reached the apex or flattened the curve. While the cases and deaths are rising a group of people protested in the streets.

          Keep in mind the public officials declared the measures would prevent the spread. Remember, people in the state were told all the rules were based on the science from the experts.

          Following protests the state lifted some restrictions previously declared in the interest of “public safety”. Here’s a list of the restrictions lifted:

          Under Executive Order facilities that may reopen or remain open include:

          - Bait shops for live bait.

          - Outdoor shooting ranges and game farms.

          - Public and private parks and trails.

          - Golf courses and driving ranges.

          - Boating and off-highway vehicle services, including: marina services; dock installation and other lake services; boat and off-highway vehicle sales and repair, by appointment only.

          Nothing about the science changed. Cases and deaths are on the rise. But suddenly restrictions were lifted after protests. Was it science driving the decisions to close down all those things in the first place? Maybe it’s just a coincidence there were protests followed by lifting of restrictions.
          Last edited by Fantaztic7; 04-17-2020, 10:12 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
            It was not the governor asking state police to collect license plates, it was the mayor of Louisville. Collecting license plates doesn’t mean you’re acting lawfully. That’s why the Federal judge put a restraining order against the practice because those people weren’t violating the governor’s orders.

            Stop avoiding the question. I’ll ask again, how does social distancing work to prevent spreading the virus at grocery stores, but does not work at a drive in church service? Those cars were easily six feet apart. I guarantee cars in a crowded Costco parking lot are closer than six feet. People can sneeze on cars and carts at a grocery store.

            We have Constitutionally protected rights to practice our faith. That is essential for some people - as essential as buying groceries or liquor.

            One more time, can you point to any science that says social distancing works at a grocery store and not at a drive in church service?

            Forget whether or not it’s a grocery store or a church - does social distancing, washing hands and not touching your face help prevent the spread of the virus? Just a simple yes or no.....
            It works as best as it can at grocery stores because there are things in place to make it that safe as they can. And I do believe mitigation has worked. Do you not? You can't guarantee everyone's safety, but we all have the duty to try and protect as many people as we can.

            Again, how do you know the circumstances at that gathering? Were you there? Who was supervising to make sure social distancing guidelines were being observed? Was anyone infected and praying for their recovery? Did people go and shake hands or hug people from their congregation? I don't begrudge people for being put off by those things not being considered essential. But does that make it okay to not follow rules? That Mayor lost, and maybe that will spark a lot more of those types of services for people, maybe it's the middle ground But, I will not feel sorry for them if they are not following the guidelines and suffer consequences. I, like many, have been asked to fill my faith cup in different ways for a while. And I am doing so. Where I do it is no big deal to me.


            oops, i just saw your post where you also thought mitigation worked.
            Last edited by Bronco51; 04-17-2020, 10:15 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
              It was not the governor asking state police to collect license plates, it was the mayor of Louisville. Collecting license plates doesn’t mean you’re acting lawfully. That’s why the Federal judge put a restraining order against the practice because those people weren’t violating the governor’s orders.

              Stop avoiding the question. I’ll ask again, how does social distancing work to prevent spreading the virus at grocery stores, but does not work at a drive in church service? Those cars were easily six feet apart. I guarantee cars in a crowded Costco parking lot are closer than six feet. People can sneeze on cars and carts at a grocery store.

              We have Constitutionally protected rights to practice our faith. That is essential for some people - as essential as buying groceries or liquor.

              One more time, can you point to any science that says social distancing works at a grocery store and not at a drive in church service?

              Forget whether or not it’s a grocery store or a church - does social distancing, washing hands and not touching your face help prevent the spread of the virus? Just a simple yes or no.....
              I see what you are saying here..and can’t say I disagree...

              As an answer, maybe it’s the time spent at that location? Mass usually runs an hour? How long are people shopping?

              And, I agree freedom of religion..and churches are places of worship..you can pray in any place, getting groceries is done in certain places.

              And with that..I would have applauded the in-car mass as a great idea...
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              • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                It works as best as it can at grocery stores because there are things in place to make it that safe as they can. And I do believe mitigation has worked. Do you not? You can't guarantee everyone's safety, but we all have the duty to try and protect as many people as we can.

                Again, how do you know the circumstances at that gathering? Were you there? Who was supervising to make sure social distancing guidelines were being observed? Was anyone infected and praying for their recovery? Did people go and shake hands or hug people from their congregation? I don't begrudge people for being put off by those things not being considered essential. But does that make it okay to not follow rules? That Mayor lost, and maybe that will spark a lot more of those types of services for people, maybe it's the middle ground But, I will not feel sorry for them if they are not following the guidelines and suffer consequences. I, like many, have been asked to fill my faith cup in different ways for a while. And I am doing so. Where I do it is no big deal to me.


                oops, i just saw your post where you also thought mitigation worked.
                There are so many variables it will be very difficult to assess the efficacy of mitigation.

                If we agree mitigation guidelines work, then those guidelines work wherever implemented. Who’s supervising people in aisle 4 pondering which cereal to buy at the grocery store? The point is that people can break rules wherever they are.

                Most people act in their self-interest to preserve their well being. If mitigation works in a grocery store it can work at a drive in church service, restaurant, school or anywhere else.

                We can argue about who did what at a drive in service in Kentucky, but that misses the main point. If social distancing/mitigation works, then it works. People can figure out how to move forward.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                  I see what you are saying here..and can’t say I disagree...

                  As an answer, maybe it’s the time spent at that location? Mass usually runs an hour? How long are people shopping?

                  And, I agree freedom of religion..and churches are places of worship..you can pray in any place, getting groceries is done in certain places.

                  And with that..I would have applauded the in-car mass as a great idea...
                  It could be the time spent at the location or increased trips to the store. Although most people try following rules it’s impossible to be perfect.

                  It’s a fact we spend more time and money at the grocery store when our 16 year old son goes with us...hahaha.

                  Santa Clara County, California was the first to complete a randomized observation testing antibodies. The community was one of the places with early cases of Coronavirus infections.

                  They tested 3,300 people for antibodies. Between 2.5% - 4.2% tested positive for antibodies. The data mean the infection rate could be 55-85 times higher than initially believed. That translates to nearly 2 million people infected in Santa Clara County.

                  Does anyone believe they know how well mitigation works?

                  Comment


                  • Colorado purchased these rapid test kits. They have been somewhat controversial because of their origin and how China didn’t approve them for use
                    https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/unapproved-rapid-covid-19-antibody-test-used-to-test-colorado-first-responders/73-e3725a11-69f0-4115-ae72-788f93cce168

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post
                      Colorado purchased these rapid test kits. They have been somewhat controversial because of their origin and how China didn’t approve them for use
                      https://www.9news.com/article/news/h...2-788f93cce168
                      I would be concerned if the tests were approved by the equivalent of their FDA.

                      Comment


                      • Lets see, some keys to success: leadership, science, facts, experience, testing, testing, testing, heroic frontline staff (who need a break), economic leadership in tandem with healthcare leaders, recovery rate and progress based on key data (spread rate, deaths, potential outbreaks, contact tracing).

                        For me, a person who believes in safety first, and is also a business grad/career manager (I like to think I understand the importance of economics), the thing I would emphasize, do not expect healthcare folks to risk themselves too long. Lets not assume that they can hold the fort, for a long period of time, even if the cases are well under apex levels. That's not their burden. They are a big part in the equation.

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                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          Lets see, some keys to success: leadership, science, facts, experience, testing, testing, testing, heroic frontline staff (who need a break), economic leadership in tandem with healthcare leaders, recovery rate and progress based on key data (spread rate, deaths, potential outbreaks, contact tracing).

                          For me, a person who believes in safety first, and is also a business grad/career manager (I like to think I understand the importance of economics), the thing I would emphasize, do not expect healthcare folks to risk themselves too long. Lets not assume that they can hold the fort, for a long period of time, even if the cases are well under apex levels. That's not their burden. They are a big part in the equation.
                          When i first scanned your post i thought the word heroic was heroine.
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                          Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                          • ppl are like “how have u been spending the time”

                            it’s like well responding to texts takes 16 hours and then after that i try to get some rest ..........
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                            • sigpic

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                              • Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                                When i first scanned your post i thought the word heroic was heroine.
                                Yikes!! Now, I do think that in places where it's legal, the soft stuff is moving of late. And I've been resorting to a glass of wine, now and again. Small glass though,,,

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