Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Corona virus

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    What evidence proves the shut down measures worked better in some areas than others? Statistically, provide the evidence.

    What proof can you provide the efforts of “most” have helped in the battle?
    Read my post again. Simple optimistic post. The evidence of a good fight? Here's the answer. We are fighting a good fight together. Nothing deep about it, or respective of specifics. We, that is the people, including the heath care folks, and anyone involved in helping, have fought a good fight. Amen,

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      I do not want to get too confident, and I do have significant empathy for those in need, but I do see a lot of evidence that we fought a pretty good fight to tame this ugly virus, with many of the hard hit locations showing better numbers, the key being lost lives.

      So yes, good on all who have made the plan work. We still got work to do, and a lengthy period of time before anything resembling normal returns.

      But just think back, a month or two, and then weeks ago, and even within days, of the crisis and the high speed of learning involved. And the fears that may subside a little, now that we have got past what seems is the worst part. It is easy to forget, but not long ago this was out of control, as we did not understand it. We still don't completely, but at least the efforts of most have helped in the battle.

      Good luck everyone!! Good work!!:thumb:
      Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      Read my post again. Simple optimistic post. The evidence of a good fight? Here's the answer. We are fighting a good fight together. Nothing deep about it, or respective of specifics. We, that is the people, including the heath care folks, and anyone involved in helping, have fought a good fight. Amen,
      Look at your post - the bold comment. The comment claims a lot of evidence that we fought a pretty good fight to tame this ugly virus.

      I would agree a lot of things were done in the name of “taming the virus”. Various measures from shutting down thousands of schools, businesses, restaurants, parks. We know without question those measures led to 22+ million people lost jobs in the U.S. over four weeks.

      What evidence exists those measures produced a better outcome of taming the virus? Not an opinion, but actual evidence of fewer cases and deaths linked to the specific measures taken in any country/region?

      Can you point to any evidence the good fight tamed the virus?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
        Look at your post - the bold comment. The comment claims a lot of evidence that we fought a pretty good fight to tame this ugly virus.

        I would agree a lot of things were done in the name of “taming the virus”. Various measures from shutting down thousands of schools, businesses, restaurants, parks. We know without question those measures led to 22+ million people lost jobs in the U.S. over four weeks.

        What evidence exists those measures produced a better outcome of taming the virus? Not an opinion, but actual evidence of fewer cases and deaths linked to the specific measures taken in any country/region?

        Can you point to any evidence the good fight tamed the virus?
        It was meant to be a simple, positive and optimistic post. I want to stay on a positive note. Be cool.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7
          I went for a long walk with my wife and dogs today, completed a couple of small projects around the home and helped cook dinner. Funny thing, my wife had a happy face!
          Good for you! For the most part, I've enjoyed having hubby home. He tried to fix a laptop, but ended up breaking it more. Hopefully, the next few projects he wants to do will have a better outcome.
          Administrator

          Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage

          Lupus Awareness

          "a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life ; "

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
            Who is the authority on the right thing to do? A celebrity with resources to continue advocating the same position?

            Rising unemployment correlates to more suicides. Are deaths from suicide from rising unemployment not as meaningful as deaths from Coronavirus? Seems like normalizing the deaths of people impacted by unemployment.
            Based on a previous discussion, lets not do the normalizing death thing. The fact that so many folks will die as a result of this virus is a bad thing, and not to be forgotten, respective of the ages and other conditions. None of that should be normalized. I would say that risking the lives of healthcare workers is almost being normalized by some, given they seem to forget that while this continues, they keep on risking, and risking at a higher rate than most others. They should not be sacrificing for us the way they have. That is not normal.

            Lets park the normalized argument. There are many sides to it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Peanut View Post
              Good for you! For the most part, I've enjoyed having hubby home. He tried to fix a laptop, but ended up breaking it more. Hopefully, the next few projects he wants to do will have a better outcome.
              Sometimes we like breaking things - it’s a nice justification to spend hours researching the next thing to buy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Peanut
                I second this idea. We have left enough warnings in the thread. I'm going to have to use my mean face. I much prefer this one:
                I agree. Some folks keep wandering towards the line. Sometimes in a subtle way.

                Comment


                • ^^^subtle can mean without fully realizing it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                    Based on a previous discussion, lets not do the normalizing death thing. The fact that so many folks will die as a result of this virus is a bad thing, and not to be forgotten, respective of the ages and other conditions. None of that should be normalized. I would say that risking the lives of healthcare workers is almost being normalized by some, given they seem to forget that while this continues, they keep on risking, and risking at a higher rate than most others. They should not be sacrificing for us the way they have. That is not normal.

                    Lets park the normalized argument. There are many sides to it.
                    Here’s the thing, some people have taken hard line positions on how to manage Coronavirus. I’ll recap those positions, generally:

                    1. Taking early and stringent mitigation measures resulted in better outcomes, for example fewer cases and deaths.

                    2. Extending the mitigation measures as long as necessary is the only thing that matters. It’s doing the right thing.

                    3. Massive unemployment and businesses failing are necessary. No cost to the economy and people’s livelihoods is too high. Go slowly, take as long as necessary.

                    As the goal posts continue being moved, e.g. extending the mitigation measures as long as possible, what evidence exists to prove those measures worked?

                    Surely, knowing it’s the right thing to do can be backed up with evidence. Can you point to any?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                      Based on a previous discussion, lets not do the normalizing death thing.The fact that so many folks will die as a result of this virus is a bad thing, and not to be forgotten, respective of the ages and other conditions. None of that should be normalized. I would say that risking the lives of healthcare workers is almost being normalized by some, given they seem to forget that while this continues, they keep on risking, and risking at a higher rate than most others. They should not be sacrificing for us the way they have. That is not normal.

                      Lets park the normalized argument. There are many sides to it.
                      Ah, I see how that works.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        Here’s the thing, some people have taken hard line positions on how to manage Coronavirus. I’ll recap those positions, generally:

                        1. Taking early and stringent mitigation measures resulted in better outcomes, for example fewer cases and deaths.

                        2. Extending the mitigation measures as long as necessary is the only thing that matters. It’s doing the right thing.

                        3. Massive unemployment and businesses failing are necessary. No cost to the economy and people’s livelihoods is too high. Go slowly, take as long as necessary.

                        As the goal posts continue being moved, e.g. extending the mitigation measures as long as possible, what evidence exists to prove those measures worked?

                        Surely, knowing it’s the right thing to do can be backed up with evidence. Can you point to any?
                        I disagree with your recap. And I would love to carry this on, but I am growing tired of re-describing interpretation.

                        At this point I will say this.....there are people on your side, and I know there are people on mine. I am quite sure I can not convince you of why I believe I am correct. So it becomes a futile exercise. We are solving ziltch. And even when I post something optimistic and hopefully positive, I don't care for the ongoing questions. This conversation may be meaningful, but I am tired of it. Yes, Lets not forget that I asked people questions myself, but I never expected responses. Then again AW, for one, was open to it.

                        Disagreement, but with some room for error/space/understanding. That's cool. But this is not likely to happen between you and me. We've been on this road before. So lets just try to be nice, and keep the discussion as low key as possible. Sorry if I asked you anything.

                        I will be clear about a couple of things, and I have said it multiple times. People that support my position:
                        1) Want less suffering, more financial opportunity, and a wonderful balance of health and economics. That's an ideal at this point, because this is new turf for us all.
                        2) The economic part can go as slow or as fast as it can, as long as people's lives, including healthcare workers, are not compromised, and we don't step backwards instead of forwards. I try to argue that stepping back could be a severe blow to life, and to the economy. BUT if a locale, region or larger entity can manage the virus, maintaining a controllable spread rate, and can test and trace accordingly, as far as I am concerned they can go forward quickly. Plus they must be careful of where they travel while under differing social rules. Containment is critical, even as we move forward.

                        Lets not say that people on my side are insensitive to job loss, unemployment rates, mental health concerns, and all that comes with it. That is far from the truth and in my opinion, dramatization of interpretation. It is misleading to suggest. And it can actually come across like we are mean spirited. Then again, lost lives, and high risk caregivers deserve all the attention deserved. Since I can remember, I have never seen where, almost worldwide, health care workers are in such high risk. This is not what happens with the flu, or for anything that ever occurred in my lifetime.

                        Bottom line, if you don't believe that the social strategies worked to a reasonably positive degree, we are not going to agree on much on this topic. No evidence I can provide will likely matter. I do not want to provide and then have you critique it, and then provide and on and on. If you don't believe it by now, you probably won't.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          I disagree with your recap. And I would love to carry this on, but I am growing tired of re-describing interpretation.

                          At this point I will say this.....there are people on your side, and I know there are people on mine. I am quite sure I can not convince you of why I believe I am correct. So it becomes a futile exercise. We are solving ziltch. And even when I post something optimistic and hopefully positive, I don't care for the ongoing questions. This conversation may be meaningful, but I am tired of it. Yes, Lets not forget that I asked people questions myself, but I never expected responses. Then again AW, for one, was open to it.

                          Disagreement, but with some room for error/space/understanding. That's cool. But this is not likely to happen between you and me. We've been on this road before. So lets just try to be nice, and keep the discussion as low key as possible. Sorry if I asked you anything.

                          I will be clear about a couple of things, and I have said it multiple times. People that support my position:
                          1) Want less suffering, more financial opportunity, and a wonderful balance of health and economics. That's an ideal at this point, because this is new turf for us all.
                          2) The economic part can go as slow or as fast as it can, as long as people's lives, including healthcare workers, are not compromised, and we don't step backwards instead of forwards. I try to argue that stepping back could be a severe blow to life, and to the economy. BUT if a locale, region or larger entity can manage the virus, maintaining a controllable spread rate, and can test and trace accordingly, as far as I am concerned they can go forward quickly. Plus they must be careful of where they travel while under differing social rules. Containment is critical, even as we move forward.

                          Lets not say that people on my side are insensitive to job loss, unemployment rates, mental health concerns, and all that comes with it. That is far from the truth and in my opinion, dramatization of interpretation. It is misleading to suggest. And it can actually come across like we are mean spirited. Then again, lost lives, and high risk caregivers deserve all the attention deserved. Since I can remember, I have never seen where, almost worldwide, health care workers are in such high risk. This is not what happens with the flu, or for anything that ever occurred in my lifetime.

                          Bottom line, if you don't believe that the social strategies worked to a reasonably positive degree, we are not going to agree on much on this topic. No evidence I can provide will likely matter. I do not want to provide and then have you critique it, and then provide and on and on. If you don't believe it by now, you probably won't.
                          To point out a couple of things... you did ask AW4M to back up his comments with proof before... and when asked to do the same.. you balked at Fan for asking.

                          And you are implying that those that disagree with you don’t care about the things you listed that you do.. you then go on to say that your pint of view cares about everything else too.

                          Maybe it is time to stop the discussion... but let’s not try to get the last backhanded word in while smiling and offering a truce..

                          It might be time to close this thread... which I don’t want to do... but it is seriously turning into something resembling P&R
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                            Ah, I see how that works.
                            Did you not just refer to normalizing deaths? If so, can I not make a similar comment??

                            Lets agree....none of us should normalize death, nor point at others for doing it. We've made that mistake.

                            I am going to try to pull back discussions here. Do I believe I am absolutely correct? No. I don't know for sure, though more certain in some parts of this than other parts. We learned so much in such a short time, and without that accelerated learning curve of info, most of us would still be wondering. You make the best decisions you can, when in a life and death, high speed situation. When you look back, you will have made mistakes. But when you look back, you must never forget the degree of urgency and the unknowns involved. There will be errors. There will be lessons learned.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                              To point out a couple of things... you did ask AW4M to back up his comments with proof before... and when asked to do the same.. you balked at Fan for asking.

                              And you are implying that those that disagree with you don’t care about the things you listed that you do.. you then go on to say that your pint of view cares about everything else too.

                              Maybe it is time to stop the discussion... but let’s not try to get the last backhanded word in while smiling and offering a truce..

                              It might be time to close this thread... which I don’t want to do... but it is seriously turning into something resembling P&R
                              I posted my last response before I saw yours. Just for clarification.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                                I disagree with your recap. And I would love to carry this on, but I am growing tired of re-describing interpretation.

                                At this point I will say this.....there are people on your side, and I know there are people on mine. I am quite sure I can not convince you of why I believe I am correct. So it becomes a futile exercise. We are solving ziltch. And even when I post something optimistic and hopefully positive, I don't care for the ongoing questions. This conversation may be meaningful, but I am tired of it. Yes, Lets not forget that I asked people questions myself, but I never expected responses. Then again AW, for one, was open to it.

                                Disagreement, but with some room for error/space/understanding. That's cool. But this is not likely to happen between you and me. We've been on this road before. So lets just try to be nice, and keep the discussion as low key as possible. Sorry if I asked you anything.

                                I will be clear about a couple of things, and I have said it multiple times. People that support my position:
                                1) Want less suffering, more financial opportunity, and a wonderful balance of health and economics. That's an ideal at this point, because this is new turf for us all.
                                2) The economic part can go as slow or as fast as it can, as long as people's lives, including healthcare workers, are not compromised, and we don't step backwards instead of forwards. I try to argue that stepping back could be a severe blow to life, and to the economy. BUT if a locale, region or larger entity can manage the virus, maintaining a controllable spread rate, and can test and trace accordingly, as far as I am concerned they can go forward quickly. Plus they must be careful of where they travel while under differing social rules. Containment is critical, even as we move forward.

                                Lets not say that people on my side are insensitive to job loss, unemployment rates, mental health concerns, and all that comes with it. That is far from the truth and in my opinion, dramatization of interpretation. It is misleading to suggest. And it can actually come across like we are mean spirited. Then again, lost lives, and high risk caregivers deserve all the attention deserved. Since I can remember, I have never seen where, almost worldwide, health care workers are in such high risk. This is not what happens with the flu, or for anything that ever occurred in my lifetime.

                                Bottom line, if you don't believe that the social strategies worked to a reasonably positive degree, we are not going to agree on much on this topic. No evidence I can provide will likely matter. I do not want to provide and then have you critique it, and then provide and on and on. If you don't believe it by now, you probably won't.
                                When people claim something works, providing the evidence is a fair ask. Especially when people are asking others to sacrifice their livelihoods and businesses. It’s incumbent upon those who claim the high ground to prove their position with evidence. I’ve seen no credible scientific evidence proving stringent mitigation measures are efficacious.

                                When someone can provide the evidence I’ll examine with an open mind.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X