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  • Peanut
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Does anyone still doubt that the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is Wuhan, China - specifically, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, CAS?
    That wasn't the purpose of my post. If you want to discuss it, please PM me.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Notice how the media and public health officials have moved to “cases” because deaths are so low?

    Remember when Sweden was demonized for their approach to Covid. Their 7 day average deaths is 1 with zero deaths July 30. Sweden has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world at ~39%. Sweden also has the least restrictions with masks and they kept schools open.
    If you were keeping track, last year there were a number of negative views on how Sweden approached the pandemic. Too many lives lost.

    Lets compare Sweden to Canada, just in terms of covid deaths.

    Sweden - 14.6k deaths / population 10 million / rate of death 0.14%
    Canada - 26.6k deaths / population 38 million / rate of death 0.07%

    In the end, Sweden had twice as many deaths per capita. Call them elderly or whatever, it is always a good idea to protect your people, young or old. And not saying Canada was a perfect model of covid strategy. But it was pretty good overall, and as we now witness, Canada's vaccine rate in general is also quite good...and getting better as we speak. So one can argue the benefits of what Sweden attempted, but in terms of lives lost alone they were not as successful as some want to believe.

    UPDATE: after doing my own calculations I see a column in the covid site:

    Covid deaths per million:

    Sweden - 1,437 Canada - 698

    Therefore, as noted above, more than double per capita.

    (FTR....it states that The US has 1,889 deaths per million)
    Last edited by CanDB; 08-02-2021, 12:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Based on observations/personal assessment, I am concerned about a 4th wave, primarily due to the "energetic" Delta variant, which is clearly more successful at sickening the unvaccinated. The fear (for me) is that it will not only stay active among those without vaccination, but also cause illness to children, who are unable to be vaccinated. And with another school year fast approaching, it could be quite troublesome and yes, worrisome.

    And even a small wave will likely cause many more business owners to close down, for good, given how they've had to manage for the last year and a half. Many are hanging by a string, and a lot of hope. I feel for them. And if you read any of my posts, I worry about the hospitals and their staff, and the patients who are put on hold.

    And the longer this pandemic stays active, is it possible that other variants will evolve? I don't know, but lets keep our fingers crossed.

    Lets snuff this thing out the best way possible. The way that is proving to work. And yes, also by being wise about diet and exercise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

    Do you seriously believe "passive and voluntary" reporting provides credible evidence of the 99.9% claim and to change mask guidance?
    I mean - that's how VAERS data has been collected over the years with vaccinations (not just the COVID vaccination). And also, a report to VAERS doesn't prove that the identified vaccine caused the adverse reactions - it only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given.

    There could be issues with underreporting of course, as the degree of underreporting is widely variable.

    I could get a vaccine and develop a sore arm. Would I report that? Doubt it.

    You could get a vaccine and develop SOB, chest pain, etc. Would you report that? Hopefully.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Peerless View Post
    About 99.999% of fully vaccinated Americans have not had a deadly COVID-19 breakthrough case: CDC

    https://abc7chicago.com/covid-breakthrough-cdc-data/10923757/
    Do you seriously believe "passive and voluntary" reporting provides credible evidence of the 99.9% claim and to change mask guidance?

    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied
    Yeah, I saw these earlier and was going to reply but I felt too lazy. But, you have inspired me to help clear up some of these misleading headlines!


    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Re-posting links to examples of breakthrough cases linked to deaths, with another article on Israel:

    159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases

    This article wants the headline to grab attention like it happened overnight. No, reading it fully - 159 people have died since January 1st of 2021. That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID deaths in Illinois since Jan. 1 which is still quite low.

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coro...cases/2560611/

    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Israel reports sharp decline in Pfizer coronavirus vaccine efficacy

    https://www.ynetnews.com/health_scie...icle/bytq34n0u
    Again, reading the article completely, I wish the headline would have included that most people who had been vaccinated at the early stage of the vaccine drive appear to be over the age of 65 and findings may not reflect the vaccine's efficacy among those in other age groups. Not only the general vaccinated public, but Pfizer has been on the, "We think annual boosters may be necessary" train for a while. Annual boosters updated with the latest variant(s) of concern would be awesome since that was one of the main selling points of going the mRNA route.

    Also - another issue with the potentially misleading title. It could be read as those percentages being the actual level of protection, rather than a relative decrease. Would perhaps be better written as : "decrease in protection of 42% against infection, 60% against severe illness." It's also about waning protection over time, not for the recently vaccinated, which the title also doesn't get across.

    But it sure is an attention grabber, eh?


    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Vaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data
    Recently, the U.K shows that 60% of people being admitted to UK hospitals are unvaccinated. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/60-people-being-admitted-uk-hospitals-had-two-covid-jabs-adviser-2021-07-19/


    Orrrr 40% of people being admitted for COVID have been vaccinated, take your pick. This leaves 40 % either fully vaccinated of half vaccinated. It's also a numbers game. The more people you have vaccinated, the greater the percentage of people entering the hospital will be vaccinated, even though fewer people overall will be admitted.

    The vaccine is not 100% effective. I hope you, or the general public know that. But - it will reduce symptoms and your chances for being admitted to the hospital with worsening symptoms.







    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Re-posting links to examples of breakthrough cases linked to deaths, with another article on Israel:

    159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coro...cases/2560611/

    Israel reports sharp decline in Pfizer coronavirus vaccine efficacy

    https://www.ynetnews.com/health_scie...icle/bytq34n0u

    Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Vaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data


    https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/...inated-uk.html





    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied

    About 99.999% of fully vaccinated Americans have not had a deadly COVID-19 breakthrough case: CDC

    https://abc7chicago.com/covid-breakthrough-cdc-data/10923757/

    More than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.

    The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths. At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

    Divide those severe breakthrough cases by the total fully vaccinated population for the result: less than 0.004% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough case that led to hospitalization and less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated people died from a breakthrough Covid-19 case.

    Most of the breakthrough cases -- about 74% -- occurred among adults 65 or older.


    Since May, the CDC has focused on investigating only hospitalized or fatal Covid-19 cases among people who have been fully vaccinated. The agency says the data relies on "passive and voluntary reporting" and is a "snapshot" to "help identify patterns and look for signals among vaccine breakthrough cases."

    "To date, no unexpected patterns have been identified in the case demographics or vaccine characteristics among people with reported vaccine breakthrough infections," according to the CDC.

    The agency shared a study this week that showed the Delta variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected. Experts continue to say that vaccination makes it less likely you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place. But for those who do, the findings suggest they could have a similar tendency to spread it as unvaccinated people.

    That study also convinced CDC leaders to update the agency's mask guidance on Tuesday, recommending that fully vaccinated people also wear masks indoors when in areas with "substantial" and "high" Covid-19 transmission to prevent further spread of the Delta variant. Guidance for unvaccinated people remains to continue masking until they are fully vaccinated.

    Pace of vaccinations is going up


    But experts say those vaccinated, while they may be able to transmit the virus, remain very well protected against getting seriously ill. Amid the latest surge of Covid-19 cases nationwide fueled by the Delta variant, local leaders across the US are reporting that the majority of new infections and hospitalizations are among unvaccinated people.

    The Delta variant is now so contagious, one former health official recently warned that people who are not protected -- either through vaccination or previous infection -- will likely get it.

    Amid concerns over the rising cases and the dangerous strain, the country has seen a steady rise in the pace of vaccinations in the past three weeks -- and an even sharper increase in states that had been lagging the most, according to a CNN analysis of CDC data.

    The seven-day average of new doses administered in the US is now 652,084, up 26% from three weeks ago.

    The difference is even more striking in several southern states: Alabama's seven-day average of new doses administered is more than double what it was three weeks ago. The state has the lowest rate of its total population fully vaccinated in the US, at roughly 34%.

    Arkansas, with just 36% of its population fully vaccinated, has also seen its average daily rate of doses administered double in the last three weeks.

    Louisiana, which had by far the most new Covid-19 cases per capita last week and has only fully vaccinated 37% of its population, saw daily vaccination rates rise 111% compared to three weeks ago.

    Meanwhile, Missouri, which has been among the hardest-hit states in the latest Covid-19 surge, now has a daily average of new vaccinations 87% higher than three weeks ago.

    Roughly 57.5% of the US population has received at least one Covid-19 vaccine dose and about 49.5% is fully vaccinated, CDC data shows.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    If someone does not believe something they see on the internet I suggest an effort to prove the person wrong. Never know what one may learn. I used duckduckgo as google been seriously unreliable. It is also interesting to see how other parts of the world are seeing something that is hitting us all.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-o...d-under-60-tv/


    I think this may reinforce the fact that a booster of some sorts (which I would imagine people probably believed would eventually happen) is probably required for certain individuals (age 50-60).

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Does anyone still doubt that the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is Wuhan, China - specifically, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, CAS?
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-02-2021, 06:19 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    It is called Covid-19 or the Virus or Delta or something along those lines. Not China Flu or China Virus.

    Any questions, please start a thread in Community Issues or PM me. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    If someone does not believe something they see on the internet I suggest an effort to prove the person wrong. Never know what one may learn. I used duckduckgo as google been seriously unreliable. It is also interesting to see how other parts of the world are seeing something that is hitting us all.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-o...d-under-60-tv/


    DuckDuckGo is great.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    If someone does not believe something they see on the internet I suggest an effort to prove the person wrong. Never know what one may learn. I used duckduckgo as google been seriously unreliable. It is also interesting to see how other parts of the world are seeing something that is hitting us all.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-o...d-under-60-tv/

    Report indicates more than 60% of those hospitalized with coronavirus are fully vaccinated, but almost all are over age 60

    By AMY SPIRO 18 July 2021, 10:50 pm

    Only one of 61 Israelis hospitalized with COVID in serious condition is a fully vaccinated individual under the age of 60, Channel 12 news reported Sunday, citing Health Ministry figures.

    According to the report, 24 of those in serious condition are unvaccinated, while 37 are fully vaccinated. The lone seriously ill fully vaccinated person under 60 was in the 50-59 age group.

    No fully vaccinated individuals under age 50 were in serious condition.

    Meanwhile, among the unvaccinated, 14 people under age 50 were in serious condition, two of whom were younger than 40.

    As to the question of why, in the over-60 group, the majority of seriously ill were vaccinated, the report noted that most people in the age group are vaccinated, and so that population is likely to get more representation. It is also possible that unvaccinated individuals have been more cautious than those who felt protected by the vaccines.
    Meanwhile, among the unvaccinated, 14 people under age 50 were in serious condition, two of whom were younger than 40.

    As to the question of why, in the over-60 group, the majority of seriously ill were vaccinated, the report noted that most people in the age group are vaccinated, and so that population is likely to get more representation. It is also possible that unvaccinated individuals have been more cautious than those who felt protected by the vaccines.

    More than 56 percent of all Israelis are fully vaccinated, and more than 90% of those over age 60 have received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

    As of Sunday afternoon, there were 6,598 active COVID cases in Israel, with 121 hospitalized, 61 in serious condition and 14 on ventilators. Sixteen people have died of COVID in the country since the beginning of July.

    The number of Israelis with COVID in serious condition has ticked up over the past month as the ultra-contagious Delta variant takes hold in the country. One month ago, there were just 19 serious cases in the country; Sunday’s figure of 61 is the highest in two months. At its peak in late January, there were more than 1,000 serious cases.

    The Delta variant is believed to be more successful in bypassing the COVID vaccines than previous strains of the virus. Health Ministry figures released in early July indicated that the Pfizer COVID vaccine is only 64% effective in preventing infection, but it remains 93% effective at preventing hospitalization and serious symptoms.

    Some health officials cast doubt on these figures, noting that they were gathered only over a period of a month, and they maintain that the Pfizer vaccine is actually more effective against Delta than claimed. Nevertheless, Pfizer cited data from Israel in seeking authorization from the US Federal Drug Administration for a third booster dose of its vaccine.

    Last week, Israel began administering booster doses to those with weakened immune systems, including heart, liver and kidney transplant patients, despite the lack of approval from overseas regulatory agencies. But Health Ministry officials have indicated that third doses for the general population are not imminent, stressing that the vaccine remains largely effective.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    OK.......so do you not think that quote is a bit questionable. I mean, it seems to be saying that we are basically completely wrong, or that their vaccines are different, or that a new type of variant is out there that basically likes vaccines. What do you think it is?
    How would the quote be questionable - have you followed through to the source data?

    The data isn't saying anyone is right or wrong. It's a data point reflecting a time period, July 1 to 22 of hospitalized patients with infections comparing vaccinated vs. not vaccinated. Israel predominantly used the Pfizer vaccine. 81% of the deaths were people who were vaccinated. 65% of those hospitalized with severe infections were vaccinated.

    Israel's health ministry has been very transparent about the decline in efficacy of the vaccine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    The positive cases are down significantly since the vaccinations arrived, and have declined fairly steadily since.

    To be honest, I do not know the current makeup of the cases, but based on what we hear, I suspect it is a reasonable mix of the original and variants, But say in Winnipeg, with a metropolitan population of over 800,000, the most recent case number I have was just 12, on Thursday, with a positivity rate of just 1.4%. At some point just a few months back, we had a positivity rate of over 15%!
    Thanks for the info.

    It seems the Delta variant is causing positive cases to go above even pre-vaccinated times in the heavily populated areas.

    Leave a comment:

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