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  • Peanut
    replied
    Thread closed again. It'll probably be reopened later. Maybe.

    This thread was not intended to be a platform for personal agenda.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    OK.....sorry but I've lost a lot of "enthusiasm" for this topic, but not so outside of this thread. I care about it deeply, but after 2 years, I don't see anyone changing my mind about the hard core basics, unless they are extremely well informed medical/scientific experts. Little has caused me or anyone I know personally to be halted in our tracks with what we have come to understand. Some of it is highly scientific, but some of it is common sense. Between the two, I have seen my views change slightly in 2 years, though attentive to what is happening and how to minimize the impact of the virus on myself, my loved ones and yes, everyone else. Not that I do not listen nor read nor keep an open mind on this matter. It's just that the people in my larger circle are quite intelligent (not boasting just stating a fact), caring, and have loads of common sense combined, and they too are changing their minds but only as information warrants, from the "experts".....and are all pretty much on the exact same page with respect to covid, and how to live with it in a respectful way.

    I may jump back into this thread from time to time, but this is getting old from the perspective of basic beliefs about covid, And in another sense, I have my fingers crossed that after Omicron we may see real relief. Not counting my chickens just yet, but hopeful.
    Many “experts” said masks (basics) would prevent the spread of Covid. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control conceded cloth masks do not protect against the virus as effectively as other masks. Yet millions of people wore cloth masks proclaiming they would prevent spread because “experts” previously said masks would prevent spread. Now we know cloth and disposable masks don’t do a whole lot, other than fill up the ocean with billions of masks.

    Some “experts” said vaccines would prevent the spread of Covid. Now after millions upon millions of people have been vaccinated, Omicron rages around the world, including in countries with the highest vaccination rates after the 3rd shot and in some cases the 4th.

    Experts.

    Leave a comment:

  • CanDB
    Football Immortal

  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

    Someone’s individual desire to not be infected with Covid does not remove someone else’s right to not take a drug in which they can be harmed from an adverse effect. Especially when vaccines don’t prevent the spread of Covid.
    OK.....sorry but I've lost a lot of "enthusiasm" for this topic, but not so outside of this thread. I care about it deeply, but after 2 years, I don't see anyone changing my mind about the hard core basics, unless they are extremely well informed medical/scientific experts. Little has caused me or anyone I know personally to be halted in our tracks with what we have come to understand. Some of it is highly scientific, but some of it is common sense. Between the two, I have seen my views change slightly in 2 years, though attentive to what is happening and how to minimize the impact of the virus on myself, my loved ones and yes, everyone else. Not that I do not listen nor read nor keep an open mind on this matter. It's just that the people in my larger circle are quite intelligent (not boasting just stating a fact), caring, and have loads of common sense combined, and they too are changing their minds but only as information warrants, from the "experts".....and are all pretty much on the exact same page with respect to covid, and how to live with it in a respectful way.

    I may jump back into this thread from time to time, but this is getting old from the perspective of basic beliefs about covid, And in another sense, I have my fingers crossed that after Omicron we may see real relief. Not counting my chickens just yet, but hopeful.
    CanDB
    Football Immortal
    Last edited by CanDB; 01-20-2022, 09:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Wait until millions of children who were short changed education with school closures during the Covid pandemic grow up. Children who were forced to wear masks when they returned to school, and were then shuttered out of school again during Omicron school closures. I can’t fathom how angry millions of children will be from the way the pandemic was handled.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I find this interesting but I do have a difference of opinion about one thing....and it comes down to attitudes. I am not sure I ever fully believed that vaccines themselves prevented the spread of covid, though at times I sure hoped so. But where many of us have been consistent is in the thinking it through process, when it comes to respect of covid, which equates to respect for others. I still believe that folks who did their diligence and followed medical guidance, were not only more likely to be less impacted by Delta, and even Omicron as well, but in my honest opinion, were and still are more respectful for others around them, regarding covid. Therefore the vaccines themselves did not stop the spread of covid, but the respect for one another and for the well being of the hospitals/staff/equipment did....and that was ABSOLUTELY a factor in the end. It was a saviour in so many ways.

    It's not necessarily whether or not you got covid in the end, it's how you did your best to not spread to others....because not doing your part greatly increased the odds that even just one more person was hospitalized, and possibly died. I truly believe that though some believe it is their right not to get vaccinated, it is NOT their right to potentially spread it to others because of lack of effort or concern for others.
    Someone’s individual desire to not be infected with Covid does not remove someone else’s right to not take a drug in which they can be harmed from an adverse effect. Especially when vaccines don’t prevent the spread of Covid.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Thinking of being in a restaurant -

    Why does a vaccinated customer care if the person next to them is unvaccinated?

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post

    Better for... you know... the ones that didn't die or get hospitalized the first time they got it.

    You left out the part that said "The level of protection offered by vaccination and surviving a previous infection changed during the study period. Vaccination remains the safest strategy for protecting against Covid-19"
    For the study, health officials in California and New York gathered data from May through November, which included the period when the Delta variant was dominant.

    It showed that people who survived a previous infection had lower rates of infection than people who were vaccinated alone.

    That represented a change from the period when the Alpha variant was dominant.

    Prior to the Delta variant, vaccination resulted in better protection against a subsequent infection than surviving a previous infection.

    In the summer and fall of 2021, however, when Delta became the predominant circulating iteration of the virus in the United States, surviving a previous infection now provided greater protection against the subsequent infection than vaccination.

    One important limitation to the study was that it ended before administration of vaccine booster doses was widespread.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    I fell into the prior infection and vaccinated. Didn’t have a breakthrough case during Delta surge, but had one with Omicron surge. Wonder if that was the Omicron variant?

    At this point I feel like I could eat Covid for breakfast

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Reuters:

    Prior COVID infection more protective than vaccination during Delta surge -U.S. study

    Jan 19 (Reuters) - People who had previously been infected with COVID-19 were better protected against the Delta variant than those who were vaccinated alone, suggesting that natural immunity was a more potent shield than vaccines against that variant, California and New York health officials reported on Wednesday.

    Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found.


    Natural immunity has nearly been completely denied in public health policy, yet it should be recognized.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    MIT researchers are studying the possible link of mRNA and DNA vaccines to neurodegenerative diseases. Early evidence suggests the link between vaccines and Parkinson’s disease.

    Imagine this link proving to be true with millions of young people developing Parkinson’s disease. If this happens consider the scale and impact to those individuals, their families and the healthcare system.

    The push to vaccinate millions of young people at little risk of harm from Covid may already have the stage set for Parkinson’s disease.

    We have no idea of how things will play out over time. We do know with absolute certainty there is very little risk of harm from Covid in young people. Yet we are forcing millions of youth to be vaccinated through mandates.

    Leave a comment:

  • Fantaztic7
    The Simulation

  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I find this interesting but I do have a difference of opinion about one thing....and it comes down to attitudes. I am not sure I ever fully believed that vaccines themselves prevented the spread of covid, though at times I sure hoped so. But where many of us have been consistent is in the thinking it through process, when it comes to respect of covid, which equates to respect for others. I still believe that folks who did their diligence and followed medical guidance, were not only more likely to be less impacted by Delta, and even Omicron as well, but in my honest opinion, were and still are more respectful for others around them, regarding covid. Therefore the vaccines themselves did not stop the spread of covid, but the respect for one another and for the well being of the hospitals/staff/equipment did....and that was ABSOLUTELY a factor in the end. It was a saviour in so many ways.

    It's not necessarily whether or not you got covid in the end, it's how you did your best to not spread to others....because not doing your part greatly increased the odds that even just one more person was hospitalized, and possibly died. I truly believe that though some believe it is their right not to get vaccinated, it is NOT their right to potentially spread it to others because of lack of effort or concern for others.
    Vaccines were sold as a means to prevent spread with the promise of returning to normal. As a lure to increase vaccination rates people were told, “Get vaccinated and you can do all the things you once did…” People were promised if they got vaccinated they would not need to wear masks.

    What did millions of people do? They began doing the things they wanted to do such as going to restaurants, gyms, visiting relatives, sporting events, concerts, etc.

    Consider what we learned about vaccines and the Delta variant. People who became infected with the Delta variant were less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they had already had a vaccine than if they had not. But that protective effect was relatively small, and dwindled alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot.

    Knowing the reduction of spread was minimal after three months, many who thought they would not spread Covid were doing just that. In the end many people who perceived they weren’t spreading Covid after being vaccinated we’re spreading it just the same.

    Now we know cloth and thin disposable masks are ineffective at preventing the spread (many knew this already) compared with higher grade surgical and N95 masks, in reality those who believed they were preventing the spread weren’t actually preventing the spread with masks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    Thread cleaned. Sorry if your post got deleted.

    Leave a comment:

  • JvDub95
    Football Immortal

  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post



    We've been pretty far apart since day one, so I am a bit surprised. Maybe I'll go back and see what was said. Then again, I may not, because I was not impressed by some responses made back then. Some insensitivity. Though I was on a different page than you, I do not believe you were one of those involved in those cases.
    Vaccination has been a disagreement, masks and lockdowns. However, I have always said staying home and away from people if you're feeling ill is and should be everyone's practice. We could (I'd rather not) get into asymptomatic people not knowing their sick. I'll just say, Imo, if you're feeling healthy you shouldn't be locked down.

    Leave a comment:

  • CanDB
    Football Immortal

  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    I find this interesting but I do have a difference of opinion about one thing....and it comes down to attitudes. I am not sure I ever fully believed that vaccines themselves prevented the spread of covid, though at times I sure hoped so. But where many of us have been consistent is in the thinking it through process, when it comes to respect of covid, which equates to respect for others. I still believe that folks who did their diligence and followed medical guidance, were not only more likely to be less impacted by Delta, and even Omicron as well, but in my honest opinion, were and still are more respectful for others around them, regarding covid. Therefore the vaccines themselves did not stop the spread of covid, but the respect for one another and for the well being of the hospitals/staff/equipment did....and that was ABSOLUTELY a factor in the end. It was a saviour in so many ways.

    It's not necessarily whether or not you got covid in the end, it's how you did your best to not spread to others....because not doing your part greatly increased the odds that even just one more person was hospitalized, and possibly died. I truly believe that though some believe it is their right not to get vaccinated, it is NOT their right to potentially spread it to others because of lack of effort or concern for others.
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    that's what I've been saying this whole time
    We've been pretty far apart since day one, so I am a bit surprised. Maybe I'll go back and see what was said. Then again, I may not, because I was not impressed by some responses made back then. Some insensitivity. Though I was on a different page than you, I do not believe you were one of those involved in those cases.

    Leave a comment:

  • LordTrychon
    Unleashed

  • LordTrychon
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    I'm sorry for your loss....

    I have from day one been an advocate for personal choice and that will never change.
    Thank you.

    I support your right to advocate for personal choice... and in general I support personal choice as well.

    Everything else I have left to say on those choices made (not you specifically, more of a global population issue)... I'm afraid is probably left best unsaid on this forum.

    Leave a comment:

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