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  • #46
    Originally posted by Alastor
    Empty warheads. Yeah, they still had warheads. It's possible they were warheads the damned UN left behind from the first time too - since they lose everything else.

    But empty warheads are not WMD, nor are they chemical weapons. Almost all warheads are capable of carrying chem or bio weapons - That's also the portion where the explosive charge goes on most conventional warheads too. Damn near everyone on Earth has warheads like these. They're standard military weapons. The difference would be in what was in them - and Iraq had no chem or bio stuff to put in them.



    Yeah, pre First Gulf War. Not after though. Not since.




    No sweat. Thank you for being reasonable, and for... well... for surprising me a bit to be honest.

    Some times (lately around here at least) I come off pretty harsh, and can lash out. I might have even done so to you just because it's what I'm used to doing here. If I did, I sincerely apologize... it becomes an instinctive reaction after a while of banging your head against a wall, looking for reason where none can be found.

    I just haven't encountered this type of argument here in a while. I'll be sure to remember to distinguish you from the riff-raff in the future, and make sure I don't accidentally lump you in with them.

    I was... caught off-guard honestly. My apologies.
    Maybe us "riff-raff" should change our names just for your benefit?

    Your problem alastar, is that SAME "instinctive reaction" that you just showed, AGAIN, is what got some of us against you in the first place.

    Maybe a 'sincere apology' to the rest of the 'riff-raff'(name calling?)would go a long ways to mending fences.

    If you're as big of man as you claim, that should be no problem, I'd think.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
    tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
    men."

    -- Samuel Adams

    sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

    Comment


    • #47
      I don't want to bring up old arguments or jump in the middle of this one again, but I wanted to post this link. I know Alastor is saying there is no evidence of WMD programs after the first Gulf War. I knew I had read several pieces of information from different sources that contradicted that statement. I quickly found one site and could probably find more. Here is a UK site (it appears to be a gov't site, but it references the UN's own reports). Anyway, here it is:

      http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page277.asp

      I just add it to throw fuel on the fire. Of course, this changes nothing since no WMD have been found, but I do want to point out that one other thing the Duelfer report states is that Saddam maintained the capability to restart these programs very quickly. Was it reason enough to go to war, well that's for each individual to decide. I'm just passing on some information.
      "Oh I Have Slipped The Surly Bonds of Earth... Put Out My Hand And Touched the Face of God"

      -Rest In Peace, Darrent & Damien

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rcsodak
        Maybe us "riff-raff" should change our names just for your benefit?

        Your problem alastar, is that SAME "instinctive reaction" that you just showed, AGAIN, is what got some of us against you in the first place.

        Maybe a 'sincere apology' to the rest of the 'riff-raff'(name calling?)would go a long ways to mending fences.

        If you're as big of man as you claim, that should be no problem, I'd think.



        You catch more flies with honey. If you notice, I extended an olive branch to him to diffuse our situation. Adults should not be affected by name-calling. Fighting fire with fire perpetuates retalliation.
        I've walked these streets, a loaded six-string on my back, I play for keeps 'cause I might not make it back, I've been everywhere still I'm standin' tall, I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all!!:salute!:

        Comment


        • #49
          It's falling on deaf ears, BBJ. In the past I've had more patience than I do now, or I'd follow your advice myself.

          It's reasonable of course, and it's the right thing to do... But oh well.

          I just don't have it in me to deal well with immaturity these days. I don't care to be a diplomat any more.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Alastor
            It's falling on deaf ears, BBJ. In the past I've had more patience than I do now, or I'd follow your advice myself.

            It's reasonable of course, and it's the right thing to do... But oh well.

            I just don't have it in me to deal well with immaturity these days. I don't care to be a diplomat any more.



            It's a shame Alastor. Proving one's point should never come at the cost of dignity, even one's own.
            I've walked these streets, a loaded six-string on my back, I play for keeps 'cause I might not make it back, I've been everywhere still I'm standin' tall, I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all!!:salute!:

            Comment


            • #51
              True, true.

              Alas, I wish I were a better person. But I'm not. I've extended offers and encouragement to tone it down several times in the past, and to no avail...

              I've done more than my fair share here in my opinion; I've tried reason, I've tried asking the mods for help, I've tried ignoring them hoping they'd grow up or at least read a newspaper...

              Yeah, I could do more... but I've really done more than my part to try to be reasonable. One can only try to rationalize with a fool for so long before they become the fool themselves.

              So now I greet them with the tone and demeanor they deserve.

              ::shrug::

              If you can talk some sense into them, more power to you. Yeah, I could behave more like a saint... but I never claimed to be a saint, and I've done more than should have been expected in the first place anyway.

              Good luck on your quest though - I think you'll need it.

              Comment


              • #52
                Oh, and I have attempted to be polite and reasonable. From about post 96 on in that thread, you can see the results.

                It's far from the only instance either.

                Honestly... I don't know if you're directing your "flies with honey" comment at me or not, but I've used plenty of honey, and can't really be held responsible for the level of immaturity and asininity others insist upon displaying for themselves.

                I've ah... done more than should or could reasonably be expected of any other mutual member of the board in my opinion.

                So yeah... there ya go. I'm out of patience, and for good reason. You're talking to the wrong person; "Singing to the choir" so to speak.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Alastor
                  It's falling on deaf ears, BBJ. In the past I've had more patience than I do now, or I'd follow your advice myself.

                  It's reasonable of course, and it's the right thing to do... But oh well.

                  I just don't have it in me to deal well with immaturity these days. I don't care to be a diplomat any more.
                  Well, it certainly wasn't the first time I've tried.....but it will be the last.

                  You, again, show everybody here (that looks), that you have an elevated opinion of yourself, to which noone else can touch.

                  And I'd surmise that the 'immaturity' isn't coming from these fingers......
                  "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                  tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                  men."

                  -- Samuel Adams

                  sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    You, again, show everybody here (that looks), that you have an elevated opinion of yourself, to which noone else can touch.
                    When it comes to the likes of you, RC, yes, that's an accurate dipiction, but only because there is ample evidence to suggest as much.
                    Last edited by Alastor; 02-26-2005, 10:19 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I say we pull out and nuke the site from orbit.

                      Sorry. I just like saying that. Please continue.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rcsodak
                        You, again, show everybody here, that you have an elevated opinion of yourself, to which noone else can touch.

                        :
                        I just want to say that I think everyone SHOULD have a high opinion of themselves. I like me and my life. I think I am great, funny, smart, honest guy.


                        *SHRUG*

                        Just thought I'd say so.


                        As you were.........

                        Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

                        The greatest list of music I don't own on CD :sad:
                        You should check these guys out

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Back to the RELEVANT discussion at hand......

                          BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi officials said Sunday that Syrian authorities had captured Saddam Hussein's half-brother and 29 other officials of the deposed dictator's Baath Party in Syria and handed them over to Iraq in an apparent goodwill gesture.

                          The arrests dealt a blow to an insurgency that some Iraqi officials claim Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan was helping organize and fund from Syria. The U.S. military said two American soldiers were killed Sunday in an ambush in the capital.

                          Al-Hassan, a former Saddam adviser, was captured in Hasakah in northeastern Syria near the Iraqi border, two senior Iraqi officials told The Associated Press by telephone on condition of anonymity. Hasakah is about 30 miles from Iraq.

                          They added that al-Hassan was captured and handed over to Iraqi authorities along with 29 other members of Saddam's collapsed Baath Party, whose Syrian branch has been in power in Damascus since 1963.

                          The Iraqi officials did not specify when al-Hassan was captured, only saying he was detained following the Feb. 14 assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in Beirut, Lebanon, in a blast that killed 16 others.



                          Syria has come under intense scrutiny following Hariri's death, with many in Lebanon blaming Damascus and Beirut's pro-Syrian government for the killing. The United States and France also have called on Damascus to withdraw 15,000 Syrian troops from Lebanon.

                          Washington has long accused Syria of harboring and aiding former members of the toppled Baathist regime suspected of involvement in the deadly insurgency.

                          "The capture appeared to be a goodwill gesture by the Syrians to show that they are cooperating," one Iraqi official told the AP.

                          A third Iraqi official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Syrian security forces expelled al-Hassan from Syria into Iraq after he and his supporters had been turned back in an earlier attempt to cross the Syrian border into Lebanon and Jordan.

                          Officials in interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's office, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed al-Hassan's capture but gave no other details. Capt. Ahmed Ismael, an intelligence officer in the Interior Ministry, said al-Hassan was detained early Sunday.

                          The U.S. military had no immediate comment.

                          Al-Hassan was No. 36 on the list of 55 most-wanted Iraqis released by U.S. authorities after American troops invaded Iraq in March 2003, and he also was named one of the 29 most-wanted supporters of insurgents in Iraq. The United States had a $1 million bounty on his head.

                          In a statement, Allawi's office said the arrest "shows the determination of the Iraqi government to chase and detain all criminals who carried out massacres and whose hands are stained with the blood of the Iraqi people, then bring them to justice to face the right punishment."

                          It was not immediately known whether U.S. troops played any role in the arrest of al-Hassan, who was the six of diamonds in the U.S.-issued deck of cards showing wanted Iraqis.

                          Saddam's two other half-brothers, Barzan and Watban, were captured in April 2003 and are expected to stand trial with Saddam at the Iraqi Special Tribunal. Both appeared before the special court in Baghdad with Saddam and a handful of others to hear preliminary accusations against them.

                          Al-Hassan's arrest came during a period of increased U.S. and Iraqi military activity against insurgents, who continued their campaign of violence against coalition forces and those Iraqis they believe are helping them or sympathize with them.

                          Saddam and al-Hassan had the same mother but different fathers.

                          Under Saddam, al-Hassan led the dreaded General Security Directorate, which was responsible for internal security, especially cracking down on political parties opposing Saddam. Al-Hassan was accused of torturing and killing political opponents while leading that body.

                          He later became a presidential adviser, the last post he held in the former regime.

                          The government statement said he had "killed and tortured Iraqi people" and "participated effectively in planning, supervising, and carrying out many terrorist acts in Iraq."

                          In December, Allawi accused Syria of harboring senior officials from Saddam's ousted regime, including al-Hassan. Qassem Dawoud, Iraq's minister in charge of national security, claimed that al-Hassan was supporting insurgents in Iraq from Syria, according to remarks published last year in Kuwait's Al-Rai Al-Aam daily.

                          Al-Hassan's capture was the latest in a series of arrests the government hopes will deal a blow to the insurgency.

                          "This is a great achievement for the Iraqi security forces," National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie told Dubai's al-Arabiya TV. "It is also a lesson for others to give themselves up to the Iraqi authorities."

                          Iraqi authorities said Saturday they were close to capturing the country's most-wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaida's mastermind in Iraq and believed to be behind much of the insurgent violence. A key al-Zarqawi aide and a man who served as his driver were arrested Feb. 20.

                          The United States has placed a $25 million bounty on al-Zarqawi.

                          ___
                          "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                          tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                          men."

                          -- Samuel Adams

                          sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                          Comment

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