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What do you all think of THIS Supreme Court ruling?

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  • What do you all think of THIS Supreme Court ruling?

    Supreme Court Rules Cities May Seize Homes
    By HOPE YEN, AP



    WASHINGTON (June 23) - Cities may bulldoze people's homes to make way for shopping malls or other private development, a divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday, giving local governments broad power to seize private property to generate tax revenue.

    In a scathing dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said the decision bowed to the rich and powerful at the expense of middle-class Americans.

    The 5-4 decision means that homeowners will have more limited rights. Still, legal experts said they didn't expect a rush to claim homes.

    "The message of the case to cities is yes, you can use eminent domain, but you better be careful and conduct hearings," said Thomas Merrill, a Columbia law professor specializing in property rights.

    The closely watched case involving New London, Conn., homeowners was one of six decisions issued Thursday as the court neared the end of its term. The justices are scheduled to release their final six rulings, including one on the constitutionality of Ten Commandments displays on public property, on Monday.

    Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, said New London could pursue private development under the Fifth Amendment, which allows governments to take private property if the land is for public use, since the project the city has in mind promises to bring more jobs and revenue.

    "Promoting economic development is a traditional and long accepted function of government," Stevens wrote, adding that local officials are better positioned than federal judges to decide what's best for a community.

    He was joined in his opinion by other members of the court's liberal wing - David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer, as well as Reagan appointee Justice Anthony Kennedy, in noting that states are free to pass additional protections if they see fit.

    The four-member liberal bloc typically has favored greater deference to cities, which historically have used the takings power for urban renewal projects.

    At least eight states - Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Montana, South Carolina and Washington - forbid the use of eminent domain for economic development unless it is to eliminate blight. Other states either expressly allow a taking for private economic purposes or have not spoken clearly to the question.

    In dissent, O'Connor criticized the majority for abandoning the conservative principle of individual property rights and handing "disproportionate influence and power" to the well-heeled.

    "The specter of condemnation hangs over all property," O'Connor wrote. "Nothing is to prevent the state from replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping mall, or any farm with a factory."

    Connecticut resident Susette Kelo and others in the lawsuit pledged to continue their fight. Nationwide, more than 10,000 properties were threatened or condemned in recent years, according to the Institute for Justice, a Washington public interest law firm representing the New London homeowners.

    "It's a little shocking to believe you can lose your home in this country," said resident Bill Von Winkle, who said he would keep fighting the bulldozers in his working-class neighborhood. "I won't be going anywhere. Not my house. This is definitely not the last word."

    But Connecticut state Rep. Ernest Hewett, who as a city council member approved the development, said, "I am charged with doing what's best for the 26,000 people that live in New London. That to me was enacting the eminent domain process designed to revitalize a city ... with nowhere to go."

    New London once was a center for the whaling industry and later became a manufacturing hub. More recently the city has suffered the kind of economic woes afflicting urban areas across the country, with losses of residents and jobs.

    City officials envision a commercial development including a riverfront hotel, health club and offices that would attract tourists to the Thames riverfront, complementing an adjoining Pfizer Corp. research center and a proposed Coast Guard museum.

    New London was backed in its appeal by the National League of Cities, which argued that a city's eminent domain power was critical to spurring urban renewal with development projects such Baltimore's Inner Harbor and Kansas City's Kansas Speedway.

    Under the ruling, residents still will be entitled to "just compensation" for their homes as provided under the Fifth Amendment. However, Kelo and the other homeowners had refused to move at any price, calling it an unjustified taking of their property.

    The case is Kelo et al v. City of New London, 04-108.

    Associated Press writers Matt Apuzzo in New London, Conn. and Susan Haigh in Hartford, Conn. contributed to this report.




    I understand eminent domain very well, as it is what my father in law does for a living as an attorney. I have issues with knocking down homes that are not abandoned, unsafe, condemned, or considered blight just to build a mall. That seems like a pretty decent limit on personal property rights.

    It usually not a problem when building a highway, or a power line thoroughfare, since those are things that are generally planned years in advance and often benefit an extremely large number of people over a wide area.

    But a mall? A much smaller economic impact.

    And also, states and private utility companies can generally pay double or more above fair market value for a home in ordeer to mak eit easier to buy a new one. I am not so certain that New London, which by its own admission is economically depressed, can afford to do that. I don't know, I am just taking a semi-educated guess.

    Your thoughts? Homeowners?

    Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

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  • #2
    Sounds like the 21st centuries version of "Manifest destiny" if you ask me...

    all I can say is this....

    "From my cold, dead hands..."
    I've walked these streets, a loaded six-string on my back, I play for keeps 'cause I might not make it back, I've been everywhere still I'm standin' tall, I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all!!:salute!:

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah, I'd pitch a fit. I'd likely not be willing to go to jail for the land, but I'd raise High Holy Hell.

      And I'd support anyone that fell victim similarly.

      My Republican values are all about smaller, less intrusive government. It also includes the idea of a free market where people can buy and sell without unreasonable constraints. I have a firm belief in property laws (both intellectual and tangible), and I believe in private ownership.

      The modern idea of a "conservative" seems to be a dictatorship of the dollar bill, where citizens are beholden to corporations and mega-billionaires instead of a Gustapo or Czar. Those are not true conservative values however, that's simply a different kind of dictatorship, a different kind of servetude, and different manner of slavery.

      Comment


      • #4
        It Sucks!

        For one, you should know that the Rockies Baseball stadium, Coors Field was built using this asinine law. If I remember right, they paid the property owners a lot less than the property was really worth, especially considering what they planned (and built) on it.

        But there's a new twist for it here in Colorado. Now this PRIVATE DEVELOPER has planned to build a new toll road from Ft. Collins to Pueblo. This new highway would be about 40/50 miles East of I-25, which already connects both cities, as well as Denver and Colo. Springs along the friont range. The theory is that long range drivers, truckers mostly, would use this rather than slog thru rush hour traffic in Denver and the Springs, both of which are terrible during peak hours.

        He wants to not only build a highway, but have wide berths on either side, where he can sell the rights to gas lines, and other utilities.

        Of course, the big stumbling block, are all the property owners along the route, mostly ranchers and farmers, many of whom have had those properties in thier families for generations.

        So it was put before the legislature, who, unusually, sided WITH the property owners! Everything calmed down. The people had won, and the citizens were assured of their right to not have some private devloper come and offer them pennies on the dollar for their property, and force them to take it.

        Until last week or so. Our Govonor, Bill Owens, decided to toss all that out, and reinstate that developer's "right" to go ahead with the project. As you can imagine, there have been a few letters to the editors of the papers here. NONE of which have been in favor of this project, but he doesnt care.

        You see, it was developers who got him his job. Without people like my father, who is not only a developer, but a former official in the Rebublican party, a former state chair, pushing and raising funds for him, Bill Owens might not have ever been elected in the first place! There are others whom I could name that he is friends with, but that's probably not my place to do so.

        Dad is appalled at this. However, he understands the reality of politics. It's not what's right that is of any concern to most politicians, but who supports them, financially! Those who can raise them money will always reap the benefits somewhere down the road.

        Those farmers and ranchers cant do anything for Owens. They cant take him on grand trips to faraway countries, (something I personally saw videos from), or raise him money in his next campaign, for Senator. They are too busy scraping their land to make a living for such things, and simply cant afford to blow a few grand here or there just to get their friend elected to anything.

        Developers on the other hand, have tons of cash laying around. They always have another project in the works, and another one planned for sometime after that. THEY know that they need the politicians help when the time comes to build, to change laws, or whatever in order to put that mall or baseball stadium in what was a residential area, specifically zoned for HOMES, and not Wall Marts!

        I cant say anything about the Supreme Court, but it's pretty clear to me who greases their wheels as well.

        A little more here, which has nothing to do with EminentDomain, yet.

        In Franktown, where I live, a guy planned to build this apartment complex in the center of town, in between my son's school, and a John Deere tractor place. There was much opposition to it. The land is currently a field. Everyone was in a huge uproar. I walked into the little post office there, and there was these two women trying to get people to sign a petition of the locals to stop this project.

        I explained to them the reality of the siuation. You see, this tractor place is kind of country. They have a junkyard of old tractors laying out back and to the side of their building. Some of them have been there since the dawn of tractors, and the place is not attractive, to put it nicely. It's part of the "charm of a small town, ya know? lol

        I asked these women if they knew anyone who would pay ANYTHING to rent an apartment overlooking such a scene. Of course, the didnt know anyone. I explained that they had nothing to worry about, because nobody would, and the developer would realize this soon enough, which he did.

        However, they are willing to fight until the death over this field. I asked them, what would be better? Am Apartment complex. or something else? Perhaps a Wall Mart. Or a factory of some kind. Or a junkyard, which would match the adjoining property. They thought about this. I asked them if they knew anyone who was willing to buy the land, and let it sit, undeveloped, and pay propperty taxes on it forever. They dont. They now understand that they have to make a choice, and that even though the next option might not be what they hope for, it could be worse..............

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Alastor
          Yeah, I'd pitch a fit. I'd likely not be willing to go to jail for the land, but I'd raise High Holy Hell.

          And I'd support anyone that fell victim similarly.

          My Republican values are all about smaller, less intrusive government. It also includes the idea of a free market where people can buy and sell without unreasonable constraints. I have a firm belief in property laws (both intellectual and tangible), and I believe in private ownership.

          The modern idea of a "conservative" seems to be a dictatorship of the dollar bill, where citizens are beholden to corporations and mega-billionaires instead of a Gustapo or Czar. Those are not true conservative values however, that's simply a different kind of dictatorship, a different kind of servetude, and different manner of slavery.
          Trust me Alastor, theres no seems to be about it. You hit it right on the head!

          Comment


          • #6
            thats so wrong but its just society today. reaching for bills no matter who you have to step on or over


            Comment


            • #7
              I saw the report last night on CBS......The lady and her family have this lovely house by a lake and her house is paid for.....The American Dream?........Remember the old song"They paved paradise, to put up a parking lot"........And you know damn good and well, she won't get what she should get for her house......Nothing like having your dreams come alive for you and then the powers to be come in and take away from you.....We've had our house for 9 years now, after we had been in the house for a year and a half, the city council decides to bring up a bill, that had been defeated ten years ago. It was called "The Foothill Freeway ", it was going to help with the traffic that the dot. comers had created . Anyway the path (14.7 miles)was going to come where our house was located.....we joined several home owner groups that had been formed to defeat this bill........all the signatures and standing out in front of "Safeway" collecting signatures didn't do as much as when they found out there were "burrowing owls' along the purposed route....then the historical society got into it cause several "Victorian" houses had now the label of historical importance.......Anyway, we thought we had won ....two years go by and they bring up again an "abbreviated " version, it got shot down........everything has been quiet lately.....
              "Go away kid, you bother me"....W.C. Fields

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JWinn
                Trust me Alastor, theres no seems to be about it. You hit it right on the head!
                too be fair, this decision comes from the more liberal judges - thomas, scalia, o'conner and rehnquist all dissented.

                it's a terrible decision, although i wouldn't expect anything more from the ct. textually, interpretting "public use" as that which increases tax revenue is ridiculous. - it simply makes any richer private property "public" when compared to any poorer private property. essentially there is no disctinction then btwn private and public but only richer and poorer. and that's not to mention the negative policy aspects of the decision. absolute nonsense.
                Last edited by mattos; 06-24-2005, 07:30 AM.
                sigpic
                go broncos
                share the sidewalk
                liberty > safety . . . ron paul '12!

                Comment


                • #9
                  stands up singing the national anthem of the Soviet Union.
                  In a country like the UK where space is running out for large scale developments, i could sort of understand, but in the US where there is still an abundance of space. these guys must have taken a few $'s under the table to get that through.
                  "On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
                  Ayrton Senna..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A HUGE wave with the middle diget on either hand ..... that just plain "SUCKS"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mattos, I dont think it has anything to do with LIberal, Conservitive, Repulican, or Democrat.

                      Politicians ALL want to get elected. MONEY is the thing that gets them elected, and developers have it. It's a win, win situation for both of them. The politician gets eleceted with the help of the developer's money, and the developer gets the politician to in turn pave the way for him make more money.

                      Trust me, if the average homeowner gave thousands of dollars to campaigns, this would never happen. The way the politician or judge looks at it is;

                      "Well, THEY didnt help me get elected, so I have no loyalty to them. But my friend here, Joe developer, gave me $250,000.00, and took me to Europe. All those people did was vote for me."

                      Dam right it sucks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        yeah, i agree with that
                        sigpic
                        go broncos
                        share the sidewalk
                        liberty > safety . . . ron paul '12!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In Calhan Colorado we had a similar issue rammed down our throats, they passed all kinds of zoning laws despite 70% of the voters being against the proposal.
                          The locals have dubbed this a "range war" and don't be surprised when someone gets killed for trying to enforce the law. How they can pass things that the people are against is fundamentally unfair, it's "we the people", not "they the developers".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            update



                            oh how i hope this succeeds. my favorite part is how everyone gets a copy of atlas shrugged. i will make it a goal of my life to go to this hotel if it gets built.
                            sigpic
                            go broncos
                            share the sidewalk
                            liberty > safety . . . ron paul '12!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Go Logan, Go!

                              Comment

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