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  • #16
    Originally posted by y2cragie
    Correct, and as I said above, no other plane can carry the phoenix.
    It has also been retired from service. The F/A18 super hornet can do the CAP role and fleet defence but it has a much shorter time in the air without refueling thus it can't go out as far as the tomcat.

    As for maneuverability. I know I personally play up Typhoons super agility but it's nothing more than an airshow trick today. Any self respecting fighter pilot will never be in a position to have to find out just how well it can turn in a fight. You fire your missles and run away as quickly as possible. Thats why the F-22 is designed how it is. I sure wouldn't want to get into a dogfight with it, up against some of the newer Migs and SU's. Those things are able to turn on a dime. Add in the Russians super manuverable A2A missile, the last thing you want is to get into that situation.
    Yeah, I've seen some of the Russian planes and what they can do. One of them can even go backwards a bit! I love airshows!!! Even on TV!

    Intersesting conversation. I love this stuff! Points coming all around in this one!

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    • #17
      Yeah, they dont design their planes to be as comfortable or as high tech as the American and western european planes, but those things are just plain scary. When you listen to the NATO pilots who flew during the cold war in eastern europe, they always said the thought of coming up against the MIG29 was at times terrifying. The F-15 pilots were generally thought to be ok because they could engage at a distance. But in close combat nothing could compete. It got worse when the SU27 and its newer brothers were developed. Thats why the F22 and Typhoon were developed.
      "On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
      Ayrton Senna..

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      • #18
        Originally posted by y2cragie
        The Harrier in the Falklands was probably the most impressive display by an aircraft in any aerial warfare. It was outnumber 20 to 1, it was going up against aircraft almost 3 times faster and supposedly much better in combat. By the end of the warit had lost only a couple included a number to accidents and one I think to friendly fire.
        I wasn't slating the Harrier by any means, I think it's a great plane for what it's designed for, Close Air Support. It did a superb job in the Falklands, but because of it's short range and the fleet's lack of refuelling ability it was unsuited for the job it did. And if you engage over your own decks, it's a lot easier for the enemy to get lucky.

        I can't remember exactly where, but I read an article a few years back that concluded that if the Ark Royal and her F4 Phantoms had still been in service for the Falklands, then the Task Force would have possibly lost only half the ships that they did, as they were better suited to the CAP role.

        BTW, slightly off topic, but a couple of years back, my parents treated me to a talk presented by retired USAF Colonel Richard H. Graham, former pilot, Squadron Commander & 9th Startegic Reconnaissance Wing Commander about one of, if not THE most impressive flying machine of all time, Lockheed Skunk Works SR-71 Blackbird. A very interesting & entertaining evening.
        The Whiskyteers ~ One for all, and all for MORE!!!!

        Broncomania Best Foreign Poster
        BFC.........D Will #27.............D Nash #29
        You'll Never Walk Alone




        Spiffing sig, MasterShake :cheers:

        You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords ~ The Operative, Serenity

        Maybe Slowick should pay attention

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        • #19
          I like all aircrafts and wish the F-14 weren't going anywhere.
          Darrent Williams #27 R.I.P

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JWinn

            I've been to Tuscon, and seen the boneyard there. You drive right thru parts of it.

            Interestingly, when I was there we went to the museum at that base. I forget what it was called.

            --- that would be the Pima Air and Space Museum ---

            --- they have some cool vintage aircraft ---

            --- a nice collection of old MIGs

            --- President Kennedy's Air Force One


            --- JWinn, when you were there, did you get to sit in one of these ?

            http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5...ackbird3kj.jpg

            http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9226/sr71bb8au.jpg



            ---

            May God Bless all men and women of our Armed Forces, past and present
            The Only Thing Necessary For The Triumph Of Evil Is For Good Men To Do Nothing
            http://www.navyjack.info/history.html
            My Adopted Bronco is #95 Derek Wolfe

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            • #21
              Originally posted by AZ Snake Fan
              --- that would be the Pima Air and Space Museum ---

              --- they have some cool vintage aircraft ---

              --- a nice collection of old MIGs

              --- President Kennedy's Air Force One


              --- JWinn, when you were there, did you get to sit in one of these ?

              http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5...ackbird3kj.jpg

              http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9226/sr71bb8au.jpg



              ---
              PIMA!!! That's it!!!

              It was, ohh, about 4 or 5 years ago. We went to this resort to the south of town. A horse place/Dude ranch place. Tanque Verde. Spent an afternoon at Pima.

              Saw Kennedy's AF1, and got to take a tour on it and Eisenhowers Columbine. My dad really liked that as he rode in AF1 with Reagan on that plane.

              YES! I did get to see the Blackbird. It was ouside, under a tent. You could walk right up to it and touch it. VERY cool!!! Sit in it? Nooooo......

              They have one at Hill in Ogden Utah also. My wife is from Brigham City, not too far away.

              If there's an Air Force museum nearby when I go on vacation, you can count on me checking it out!
              Last edited by JWinn; 02-18-2006, 12:55 AM.

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              • #22
                I remember back when I was in high school, I had a teacher who wore a shirt that on the front had a pic of the F-14 and underneath it said "TOMCAT" in nice font - on the back it said "Anytime Khadafi baby!" That was great!
                "Oh I Have Slipped The Surly Bonds of Earth... Put Out My Hand And Touched the Face of God"

                -Rest In Peace, Darrent & Damien

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                • #23
                  My dad was an Eagle Driver (well, he was an Aggressor too, but that's another story) so I have a special affinity for those planes. F-15, F-16, F-14.

                  When we were stationed at Kadena, we sometimes saw one of the two SR-71's take off or land. Man, those were beautiful birds.

                  And I've seen Su-27's close up.
                  Victory and defeat are matters of the temporary force of circumstance.



                  Thanks, Snk16!!

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