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Are magicians really.......well, magical.......??

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  • #16
    Yep, I addressed this in a prior post. I don't normally quote myself but I also don't want to type it again. So, here it is:
    Originally posted by Javalon
    I love to watch good magicians. I just enjoy being amazed at what they can do right there in front of you, seemingly with 'magic' because I can't figure out how they possibly could do their tricks.

    And I was a huge fan of Criss Angel (I thought he was way better than David Blaine) until I figured out that he was faking some of his tricks on his show. He claims to not use camera tricks and always asks the standard "we've never met, right?" of the "randomly" selected participants in his tricks. But a trick of his I just watched dispelled such claims.

    The trick in question was where, in the middle of a park, he "randomly" selects a person to lay on a bench and then has two other participants pull on her from either side and then they pull the first person in half. The top half of the body then proceeds to "run" away using its hands.

    Thanks to the power of TiVo, I was able to watch the entire thing over and over with clarity and frame by frame. This was how I noticed that the woman who walks over to the bench and lays down was NOT the same lady that got pulled apart. When the camera cuts to a shot of the "spectators" and then back to the bench, the woman on the bench is different. She looks vaguely similar and is wearing the same outfit, but it is definitely not her. The camera didn't focus on her much until she laid down but rewinding and pausing allowed me to get a good look and compare it to the person laying down. It was a switch.

    And just knowing that they stopped the camera while switching that person with two other people (the top half was a person with no legs, which I've seen before) means that not only were the active participants all fake but so was each and every "spectator". Angel wasn't even performing in front of a real audience!

    That is majorly disappointing to me. Even I have done camera tricks like that where you pause the filming while changing something before resuming. To have a guy who is a professional resorting to such cheap, amateurish tactics when he claims he doesn't do that has left me severely disillusioned, so to speak.

    Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of the tricks he does are really performed for real spectators. But the fact that he has lied about not using camera tricks and his unknown participants means that from now on any time he does a trick that seems impossible, I'll think it was just a camera trick.

    He lost me as a fan and I'll have trouble watching him perform again. I hope that Blaine doesn't do the same stuff. What a letdown.
    Basically, I don't feel I can trust TV magicians anymore when they actually lie to the viewing audience by saying they don't know the "randomly" selected participants and that they aren't using camera tricks.

    I haven't watched Angel or Blaine since.
    "You can't take the sky from me..."
    ------
    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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    • #17
      http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=115533

      If you look at the ladies face you can see that they are totally different from when she was cut in half.

      And the upper part of the woman I saw in Ripley's Believe it or Not because she actually is a living women that's has only the top part of her body.

      FAKE.

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      • #18
        If he could walk through the glass then why couldn't he also walk through the paper without it breaking, or without the paper there.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Javalon
          Yep, I addressed this in a prior post. I don't normally quote myself but I also don't want to type it again. So, here it is:

          Basically, I don't feel I can trust TV magicians anymore when they actually lie to the viewing audience by saying they don't know the "randomly" selected participants and that they aren't using camera tricks.

          I haven't watched Angel or Blaine since.

          Thats the post I was talking about earlier and why I called them frauds.

          I don't know why people go to shows, spend $50 a ticket just to watch something fake. You might as well go watch WWE...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by watchthemiddle
            Thats the post I was talking about earlier and why I called them frauds.

            I don't know why people go to shows, spend $50 a ticket just to watch something fake. You might as well go watch WWE...
            Thank you, but I'd rather watch fake magical tricks than half naked men wraslin' eachother.

            I'd love to have seen Houdini at work. I guess he was more of an escape artist, but come on, he was freakin' Houdini!!!
            My adopted fan is dogfish

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Reidman
              Ok, some of you are saying "Reid, you're out of your mind" and that very well could be considering it's almost 4 am here.

              Seriously though, I have watched a lot of magicians now and recently the new wave of magicians are either

              a) Very good at what they do...
              b) Using trick photography
              c) literally doing what we see them do...

              Farfetched as this may seem, I can't explain some of the stuff I've seen. We've all seen Blaine's street magic which is arguably the best magic I've ever seen. Perhaps their is logic and explanation to all of it but even so, it's amazing to behold. Recently I caught a show with this Chris Angel guy who pretty much dumbfounded me. Just watch this video where he apparently walks through a glass window and if anyone can come up with the slightest explanation, please, do tell!

              http://dl3.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjw...idwCq1njEz.wmv

              Magic is all hand eye stuff .. seems they are getting better at it though.. its cool to watch these guys at there craft but i wouldnt put much stock in it being real..i was watching mind freak the other day and well he was making people vanish ...most times he will make people reappear but when in a crowd suurounded byu people he couldnt make them reappear .. that alone right there makes me think that is hogwash
              The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
              While he sits by his hearth at home.
              Quickly finds when questioned by others .
              That he knows nothing at all.

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              • #22
                I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

                I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

                I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
                things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

                Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Reidman
                  I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

                  I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

                  I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
                  things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

                  Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...
                  Well, it helps that I don't believe in ghosts or that anybody has ever bent a spoon with their minds or anything like that. I've never seen any evidence that it exists.

                  And, I see no reason to believe that what I saw there was anything, but a well orchestrated deception. And there are things that just don't add up about how he goes about it. He does things that make it look like he's trying to decieve us.

                  And if they were lab rats, they could just walk through the cage wall.
                  My adopted fan is dogfish

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                  • #24
                    well i tend to wonder nto so much belive how they are doing that...i watched that epoisode of mindfreak(chris angel) when he just appeared on top of his car..i though that dont make any sense...they also never showed the bottom of the "container" he was in..so i belve that is how he got out..or maybe he is like a mutant and used his powers

                    but none the less i enjoy watching shows like mindfreak..but i dont really like tricks that dont make any sense...such as cuting someone in half, (and then not showing the lady after words) but haveing nothing wrong with her( i mean if someone spilt you in half you think something whould go wrong.


                    but whom am i to stay if they are magical or not magical?


                    I still miss the blue background.

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                    • #25
                      They aren't frauds, but they aren't magical either. Magicians are entertainers, and their tricks are entertaining. Thus, they do what they set out to do, being to entertain. Sadly, there is no actual magic involved. It's all just sleight of hand taken to a more extreme level. For example, one of the tricks Angel did (the walk on water bit), I had actually seen a physics professor do before. Believe me, neither Angel nor the physics professer could actually walk on water. It involved having a very clear sheet of plexiglass in the pool to walk on, with holes cut out to have people swim through to give the appearance that one is walking on the water itself.

                      If I had to take a guess as to how that walking through glass trick was done (only a guess, haven't seen a physics professor do that one ) I would say that the audience wasn't random, but rather a set-up. Then when the camera focuses on him taking off his shoes (distraction being the only motive to do so), the guy in the store raises the window. He then walks through the paper, and notice how he stops in front of the rip, and you can't see anything inside for a while. There's plenty of time for the guy inside to lower the window before he taps on the glass again. Hence, the illusion of walking through it.

                      All magic is just trickery, but if it entertains, then I don't have a problem with it because that's what it's meant to do.
                      RIP Darrent Williams

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                      • #26
                        For all you old school folks out there, this guy is the one and ONLY TRUE magician!!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DevilSpawn
                          For all you old school folks out there, this guy is the one and ONLY TRUE magician!!
                          Some of his stuff REALLY amazed me, even as a 5 yr old.....

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by The_Roses_Thorn
                            They aren't frauds, but they aren't magical either. Magicians are entertainers, and their tricks are entertaining. Thus, they do what they set out to do, being to entertain. Sadly, there is no actual magic involved. It's all just sleight of hand taken to a more extreme level. For example, one of the tricks Angel did (the walk on water bit), I had actually seen a physics professor do before. Believe me, neither Angel nor the physics professer could actually walk on water. It involved having a very clear sheet of plexiglass in the pool to walk on, with holes cut out to have people swim through to give the appearance that one is walking on the water itself.

                            If I had to take a guess as to how that walking through glass trick was done (only a guess, haven't seen a physics professor do that one ) I would say that the audience wasn't random, but rather a set-up. Then when the camera focuses on him taking off his shoes (distraction being the only motive to do so), the guy in the store raises the window. He then walks through the paper, and notice how he stops in front of the rip, and you can't see anything inside for a while. There's plenty of time for the guy inside to lower the window before he taps on the glass again. Hence, the illusion of walking through it.

                            All magic is just trickery, but if it entertains, then I don't have a problem with it because that's what it's meant to do.
                            I love good magicians. But I don't appreciate the guys on TV saying they don't use camera tricks but then using camera tricks. The magicians on TV should only do tricks that they can do in front of a live audience.

                            Camera tricks are NOT magic tricks. I can do camera tricks and have done so in the past for fun. A professional magician should not have to resort to such cheap measures, also including the use of handpicked "audience members". Now I doubt even some of the more impressive card tricks. It's spoiled the fun.
                            "You can't take the sky from me..."
                            ------
                            "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                            • #29
                              Occam's razor

                              Originally posted by Reidman
                              I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

                              I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

                              I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
                              things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

                              Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...

                              The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory

                              Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.


                              Thank you William of Ockham.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by j3phr3y
                                The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory

                                Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.


                                Thank you William of Ockham.
                                Oh yeah, well I'm gonna cut you, fool.

                                What??

                                You say you're the one with the razor??

                                Well, I'll get the hell out of here then.
                                My adopted fan is dogfish

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