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Are magicians really.......well, magical.......??

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  • anton1287
    replied
    Originally posted by Reidman
    It took every ounce of brain power to read and decipher this, thank you.......


    and i still dont get it...

    ...

    but i must say...

    great thread reidy...



    ...

    i dont believe in ghosts... nor magic...

    cos im a science/ charles dawrin man myself...

    but i must say that im a sucker for magic...

    it rocks my socks off!!!


    because its a great art... and when i watch it.. i always take it for its merits... as it realy is amazing.... even though it is fake... i do not try to pick the flaw when im watching... but after...

    when the amazement has worn off...

    and i have an explantion for all regarding that glass trick...

    if you look at the window in which the glass is located in.. there is one camera angle when it looks down and there is waaay too much wood for a normal frame at the bottom...

    so without mind tricks...

    has anybody heard of a automatic garage door??

    anybody??

    well i have...

    and it is imo... that the glass window is simply raised directly up behind the paper by a pully of sorts... as the naked eye cannot see the glass move when you are watching him going throught he window... and the clarity is not perpefct...

    and when he goes through it... it is simply lowered again...

    hence the glass was "always" there...

    and here is funny videos about street magic if anybody cares...

    it sort of represents my sinical outlook on street magic...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Son2pj5Dk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-18VTs1xDI

    Last edited by anton...; 07-09-2006, 04:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reidman
    replied
    Originally posted by j3phr3y
    The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory

    Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.


    Thank you William of Ockham.
    It took every ounce of brain power to read and decipher this, thank you.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by j3phr3y
    The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory

    Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.


    Thank you William of Ockham.
    Oh yeah, well I'm gonna cut you, fool.

    What??

    You say you're the one with the razor??

    Well, I'll get the hell out of here then.

    Leave a comment:


  • j3phr3y
    replied
    Occam's razor

    Originally posted by Reidman
    I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

    I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

    I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
    things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

    Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...

    The explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory

    Furthermore, when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.


    Thank you William of Ockham.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by The_Roses_Thorn
    They aren't frauds, but they aren't magical either. Magicians are entertainers, and their tricks are entertaining. Thus, they do what they set out to do, being to entertain. Sadly, there is no actual magic involved. It's all just sleight of hand taken to a more extreme level. For example, one of the tricks Angel did (the walk on water bit), I had actually seen a physics professor do before. Believe me, neither Angel nor the physics professer could actually walk on water. It involved having a very clear sheet of plexiglass in the pool to walk on, with holes cut out to have people swim through to give the appearance that one is walking on the water itself.

    If I had to take a guess as to how that walking through glass trick was done (only a guess, haven't seen a physics professor do that one ) I would say that the audience wasn't random, but rather a set-up. Then when the camera focuses on him taking off his shoes (distraction being the only motive to do so), the guy in the store raises the window. He then walks through the paper, and notice how he stops in front of the rip, and you can't see anything inside for a while. There's plenty of time for the guy inside to lower the window before he taps on the glass again. Hence, the illusion of walking through it.

    All magic is just trickery, but if it entertains, then I don't have a problem with it because that's what it's meant to do.
    I love good magicians. But I don't appreciate the guys on TV saying they don't use camera tricks but then using camera tricks. The magicians on TV should only do tricks that they can do in front of a live audience.

    Camera tricks are NOT magic tricks. I can do camera tricks and have done so in the past for fun. A professional magician should not have to resort to such cheap measures, also including the use of handpicked "audience members". Now I doubt even some of the more impressive card tricks. It's spoiled the fun.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reidman
    replied
    Originally posted by DevilSpawn
    For all you old school folks out there, this guy is the one and ONLY TRUE magician!!
    Some of his stuff REALLY amazed me, even as a 5 yr old.....

    Leave a comment:


  • DevilSpawn
    replied
    For all you old school folks out there, this guy is the one and ONLY TRUE magician!!

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Roses_Thorn
    replied
    They aren't frauds, but they aren't magical either. Magicians are entertainers, and their tricks are entertaining. Thus, they do what they set out to do, being to entertain. Sadly, there is no actual magic involved. It's all just sleight of hand taken to a more extreme level. For example, one of the tricks Angel did (the walk on water bit), I had actually seen a physics professor do before. Believe me, neither Angel nor the physics professer could actually walk on water. It involved having a very clear sheet of plexiglass in the pool to walk on, with holes cut out to have people swim through to give the appearance that one is walking on the water itself.

    If I had to take a guess as to how that walking through glass trick was done (only a guess, haven't seen a physics professor do that one ) I would say that the audience wasn't random, but rather a set-up. Then when the camera focuses on him taking off his shoes (distraction being the only motive to do so), the guy in the store raises the window. He then walks through the paper, and notice how he stops in front of the rip, and you can't see anything inside for a while. There's plenty of time for the guy inside to lower the window before he taps on the glass again. Hence, the illusion of walking through it.

    All magic is just trickery, but if it entertains, then I don't have a problem with it because that's what it's meant to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • maruske845
    replied
    well i tend to wonder nto so much belive how they are doing that...i watched that epoisode of mindfreak(chris angel) when he just appeared on top of his car..i though that dont make any sense...they also never showed the bottom of the "container" he was in..so i belve that is how he got out..or maybe he is like a mutant and used his powers

    but none the less i enjoy watching shows like mindfreak..but i dont really like tricks that dont make any sense...such as cuting someone in half, (and then not showing the lady after words) but haveing nothing wrong with her( i mean if someone spilt you in half you think something whould go wrong.


    but whom am i to stay if they are magical or not magical?

    Leave a comment:


  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by Reidman
    I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

    I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

    I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
    things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

    Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...
    Well, it helps that I don't believe in ghosts or that anybody has ever bent a spoon with their minds or anything like that. I've never seen any evidence that it exists.

    And, I see no reason to believe that what I saw there was anything, but a well orchestrated deception. And there are things that just don't add up about how he goes about it. He does things that make it look like he's trying to decieve us.

    And if they were lab rats, they could just walk through the cage wall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reidman
    replied
    I know most of us (including myself) think there is a logical explanation and yes some of these magicians are "frauds" who use camera tricks and set up props to aid their tricks along. But what if some of this magic was real........ do you think a person would walk through a window right in front of everybody.......? Hell no, they would be lab rats for the rest of their lives and would never be able to lead a normal life. If they did posess a gift, they would be smart to make a cover for it, ie magic because no one believes magic is real.

    I know many of you believe in ghosts, so why would this be any different, merely because it is a mortal doing unworldly things. If a person can use their mind to bend spoons and forks and move objects across tables, than perhaps they could do far greater things.......

    I'm not saying this angel fella or blaine or copperfield are really doing all of these
    things but it's fun to wonder......and if anything it's great entertainment value!

    Maybe I need to go back to bed......I'm starting to sound like anton...

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncosinindy
    replied
    Originally posted by Reidman
    Ok, some of you are saying "Reid, you're out of your mind" and that very well could be considering it's almost 4 am here.

    Seriously though, I have watched a lot of magicians now and recently the new wave of magicians are either

    a) Very good at what they do...
    b) Using trick photography
    c) literally doing what we see them do...

    Farfetched as this may seem, I can't explain some of the stuff I've seen. We've all seen Blaine's street magic which is arguably the best magic I've ever seen. Perhaps their is logic and explanation to all of it but even so, it's amazing to behold. Recently I caught a show with this Chris Angel guy who pretty much dumbfounded me. Just watch this video where he apparently walks through a glass window and if anyone can come up with the slightest explanation, please, do tell!

    http://dl3.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjw...idwCq1njEz.wmv

    Magic is all hand eye stuff .. seems they are getting better at it though.. its cool to watch these guys at there craft but i wouldnt put much stock in it being real..i was watching mind freak the other day and well he was making people vanish ...most times he will make people reappear but when in a crowd suurounded byu people he couldnt make them reappear .. that alone right there makes me think that is hogwash

    Leave a comment:


  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by watchthemiddle
    Thats the post I was talking about earlier and why I called them frauds.

    I don't know why people go to shows, spend $50 a ticket just to watch something fake. You might as well go watch WWE...
    Thank you, but I'd rather watch fake magical tricks than half naked men wraslin' eachother.

    I'd love to have seen Houdini at work. I guess he was more of an escape artist, but come on, he was freakin' Houdini!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • watchthemiddle
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Yep, I addressed this in a prior post. I don't normally quote myself but I also don't want to type it again. So, here it is:

    Basically, I don't feel I can trust TV magicians anymore when they actually lie to the viewing audience by saying they don't know the "randomly" selected participants and that they aren't using camera tricks.

    I haven't watched Angel or Blaine since.

    Thats the post I was talking about earlier and why I called them frauds.

    I don't know why people go to shows, spend $50 a ticket just to watch something fake. You might as well go watch WWE...

    Leave a comment:


  • Domostick
    replied
    If he could walk through the glass then why couldn't he also walk through the paper without it breaking, or without the paper there.

    Leave a comment:

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